robert: september surprise. intensifying battle over supreme court nominee brettavanaugh. i'm robert costa, welcome to "washington week." president trump: to see what's sad. to is just very, very you say, why didn't someby call the f.b.i. 36 years ago? robert: president trump questions the credibility of the allegations against supremene court nomie brett kavanaugh, firing off a tweet aut the accuser and her parents. mr. trump wrote, in part ," i have no doubt that if the attack had bee asad as she says, charges wod have been immediately filed. kavanaugh denies the allegations and says he is ready to testify.

in the senate judiciary committee led by republicans,id cos its options. the political tight rope ahead, just weeksefore the midterm elections. democrats stands by dr. ford. >> i believe her because she'sll g the truth. someone who is lying does not ask the f.b.i. to investigate their claims. robert: key republican senators are in the spotlight. plus, did deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who heads the russia probe suggest secretly recording the president? we cover it all next. announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- newman's own foundation, donating all profits from newman's own food products to charity and nourishing the common good.ko and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communies. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the corporation for public

broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station om viewers like you. thank you. once again, from washington, moderator, robert costa. robert:good evening. federal judge brett kavanaugh once appeared to be on the fast track to being confirmed to a lifetime appointment on the supreme court. now his nomination's fate is uncertain. in "the washington post" on sunday, professor christine blasey ford accused kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her at a party when she was 15 years old and kavanaugh was 17. a thursday, kavanaugh sen letter to the senate judiciary committee saying he's prepared to testify on monday, writing, from the moment i first heard thisat alln, i have categorically denied it. i am committed to defending my integrity. dr. ford,n seclusion because of death threats, says she's willing totify no sooner

than thursday if certain conditions are met includingug kava would testify first. a subpoena for testimony from alleged witness mark judge and robust security. kavanaugh and his family have hso received threats, according to allies. joining the "washington week" table tonight arean four vet first-class reporters. peter baker of the "new york times, nancy cordes of cbs news, andrea mitchell of nbc news and dan balz of "the washington post." president trump's response toto the fir was at first out of character, restrained about the accuser, even as he stood by kavanaugh. yet thatnged on friday. is the president's aggressive turn a sign of what's c toe next week? peter: it's a small preview but it could be so much more vitriolic and combative and we've established the outer limit of the president's ability to the restrain himself withst circces like this.

it's about 100 hours. his advisers toldim not to tweet about it and he said he stood by brett kavelaugh, sorry for his family, what was happening was unfair but didn't take on the accuser in t direct way he's been known to in the past until thursday night and immediately generated exactly the blow-back the white house feared, which is that he doesn't understand women and how would you think you have to come forward, a 15-year-old girl, trying toxplain to your parents why you were at the party and you have to go to the police. unrealistic, manyomen did say. not what the white house was hoping for. robert: how do his top advisers see i andrea? you sat down with secretary of state mike pompeo. andrea: he's getting ready for

the u.n meetings. they want the president to be on the world stage talking about iran and north korea, taking credit for changing the climate on north korea but they've got this shadow and potential hearings during the time he'll be chairing a u.n. security council meeting and they are defensive about it and what pompeos saying is that judge kavanaugh has a great record as far as he knows and they are ianne feinstein for, they say, covering this up, not understanding or acknowledging what she says, which is that she was honoring the confidentiality of a witness who was so reluctant to speak out and that's why she did not want to share the information anyone, including her own colleagues, to se consternation on their part. but the fact that they're going after dianne feinstein and we see the president, as peter just said, really going after dr. d.asey f robert: this has brought up

memories of 1991 with anita hil testifying against then nominee clarence thomas, now justice thomas. some of the players then, like senator orrin hatch of utah, republican, are still with us today. how is that whole moment, that charged nationalle spect from anita hill, informing today's moment? dan: spectacle is a kind word for what happened in those hearings. andrea covered it. it was a debacle. the republicans in that case aggressively went after anita hill to try to demolish her sty. theemocrats weren't quite sure what to do and when clarence thomas proclaimed he was a victim of a high-tech lynching, which was the most memorable phrase of that episode, they backed off. but they sparred constantly. they were crossing at one another. the hearings went on for several days. nothing in the end was resolved other than that thomas became a supremece court jus

flash forward to where we are today, if, wn fact,e have a public hearing on this, i think that thehallenge for the republicans is to avoid what their colleaguesid in as we all know, we're in a much different moment about issues having to do with sexual harassment, sexual assault. they b have toe very careful in the way they conduct themselves but democrats will also have a very difficu time. it's difficult in those moments because this i so -- the stakes are so high and this is so difficult, it's difficult forrs sena to restrain themselves. robert: i'm glad we could get you here from capit hil nancy. where do the negotiations stand? republicans need to be careful. wher the is dr. ford and chairman chuck grassley of the judiciary committee as of tonight? nancy: they're so key to avoid what happened with the ata hi hearings, republicans are considering ceding their right

to question dr. blasey ford to an outside counsel. when is the last time you saw senators willing to step back and let someone else ask questions. there are 11 men on the republicann side o the senate judiciary committee so that hasn't changed since theaynita hill and they think the optics are bad. as far as tonight, the two des, lawyers for ford and republicans on the senate judiciary committee have been negotiating through the press for a suple of d now. the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, chuck grassley,s nowiving the lawyers until 10:00 p.m. tonight to officially say thathe is going to appear at a hearing on wednesday. you know, her lawyers say she can't make it until thursday.ni republicansally wanted to hold the hearing on monday. they're willing to push that back but say they' not going to accept some of her other demands. republicans say they're demands democrats say they were questions or requests. for example, s wanted to

testify after kavanaugh. republicans said, no can do. she wants to make sure she's questioned onlyth by senators, not outside counsel that starts to feel like a trial, democrats say. republicans say they reserve the right have questions asked by someone else. this is the back-and-forth we're seei it feels like we're narrowing in en the sides bet but there are a number of issues. robert: we're taping it live 9:00 eastern on friday and we'll see what happens by 10:00. andrea: her lawyers have not said it's a deal breaker if they insist on outside counsel which to them seems important.th want a woman lawyer questioning her. that said, i think it's going to beifficult for her not to show up even though these seem to her supporters to be reasonable requests, because they have the votes and ifhe doesn't show up, they think they can barrel

through. i think rhere's ak politically in the midterms in some senate races, as well, tha are so critically balanced right now, tied in some of these states which we can talk about later but i think the politics of her refusing or the politics of them proceeding are very uncertainig now. robert: both sides pretty much know that. you hav senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and his message is fullad speed an a chamber where the g.o.p. has narrow contro senator mcconnell: you've watched the fight. you've watched the tactics. here's whatant to tell you, future, judgear kavanaugh will be on the united states supreme court. so, my friends, keep the faith. don't get rattled by all of this. we're going to plow right through it ando our job. robert: as i said, it's friday night. the president's in springfield

missouri, having a rally talking to the faithful in his base. he said he is going to stand by judge kavanaugh. he called kavanaugh someone out of cenal casting. so the republican party, mcconnell or trump, they're digging in. peter: they have to have 51 points in order to proceed this is a volatile situation. clarence thomas and ata hil their confrontation, it was a ll year before the next election and still shaped that election to the detriment of republicans and some democrats who were turned out. this happened six weeks before the election,n election already on tenterhooksnd you can see why republicans are anous to get the nominee through now because if they don't have the senate in november, they're not to get him through afterwards and by the same token, democrats are motivated to delay as long as possible because if they can knock off this nominee, perhaps

they can influence theext choice. robert: does it influence the midterms? dan: yes. the timing could not be more fraught. i wasve in d talking to in particular women vot i'll say two things about it. one is, there is a partisan t split os question. people who are loyal to trump want kavanaugh. they don't believe her. but on the otheride which is where there is more energy, they are totally in support of dr. ford and they seehias a critical issue. it is ergizing people beyond the energy that was already there so i think depending on how this plays out, t republicans are more at risk as a result of it. andrea: and they hav figure out what the president's going to do. if there's another tweet like day's, they're going toave a real problem because they have no votes to spare, arguably, and susan collins, who was leaning in the direction, we think, of

confirming, making some would say rationalizations about what he assured her about r being settled law. but she came up strongly todaybj reallyting to the president's tweet where he went after her as a victim and said why wasn't it respected -- reported to the f.b.i.? well, she was 15 years old and afraid to tell her parents she was drinking at a party with no supervision and that was panic that set in as her story. robert: so you're republican votes, moderate republicans, that's fragile, for mcconnell. whatbout red state democrats? do they have less pressure to vote f kavanaugh? nancy: i think they absolutely have less pressure. kavanaugh, according to polling, was not all that popular but

sthey felt pressure te with the president on an issue this important in their redtates. now suddenly they have a pretty good case to make if they decide to vote no. if they vote a different way than they did with gorsuey and an rest assured that it's probably not going to hurt them in their midtermctions the way it might have otherwise dan: i think related to that is the degree to which it could yhurt them if t vote for him. they need -- they need an energized base and again, in talking to some people this week, ot of the things t came through is that these voters want their representatives, their sen to stand up for the things that they claim to believe in and so a red state democrat supports kavanaugh in the end, if its coo that, they could pay a price. robert: ang midterm vot plarts now, it's beginning. peter: as p are going to the polls, this is the national

conversation. and it's a muchore visceral conversation than some of the more esoteric things we absorbed with in washington. this is something easy to understand. robert: gender. pete not everyone m understand north korea but they understand this kind of thing becae everybody knows someone who has had an experience and sees itith their lens so as salient an issue as you can get this close to an election. andrea: the only other overriding issue right now is healthcare many are feeling the pain of prices. ansoybean prices and tariffs. if you go to minnesota, trade is aig deal. nancy: and the hearing hasn't even happened yet. if people are firow up imagine what it will be like after this hearing. we have one adult picture of christine blasey ford right now when she's actually sitting n personstifying i telling her story.

that is going toe a very sympathetic image for a lot of peopth. e's a reason why brett kavanaugh has spent every day this week preing for this hearing. it's very high stakes. andrea: he's prepping with people athe white house who are not necessarily sympathetic or understanding of these issues. some of the peoplrepping them have had their own questions -- robert: you're talking about bill shine, deputy cef of staff, former executiveox at staff who used to advise roger ailes who had allegations of misconduct. andrea: it's not a great sensitivity to the way to communicate with women. the only other thingou i say is thinking back, we didn't have -- there was cnn but not a lot of cable and now you have saturation through social media and cable so these hearings will be en more widely viewed than the weekend hearings -- peter: in 1991, the default

became, fairly or not, for anita hill to prove it. she had the burden of proof. today, becse of the "me too" movement and the last year, presumption is the other direction. robert: times have changed, this is not 1991, everything's diffeent but some of people from 1991 are still around. t "new yores" is reporting deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who oversees the russia probe suggested having someone wear a wiretl to sec record the president inside the white house. according to theources, rosenstein considered recruiting cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment to remove mr. ump from office. rosenstein and the justice department have disputed the story, calling it incorrect. a person familiar with the change told "the times" rosenstein was being sarcastic "the washington post" and others following the story said people familiar with the discussions have offered wildly different accounts of what was saidat and it meant.

this is a big story friday night but the question is how does president trump see it. peter? [laughter] peter: he's been publicly bashing rosenstein more than a year now so you can see how the story might g under his skin to hear the deputy attorney general, whether joking or not, talked about bugging him and the idea is it fits into presidentp' tr theory which is that they're out to get him so if nyou're rod rosenst today, you're worried about that. someone close to the white house teld me that rosstein has done a better job than sessions working with t white house since the blow-up a year ago. the white house hn b defending and disputing the story since it came out so it may be that i doesn't cost rosenstein his job but it talks about what a dysfunctional person this administration is

that the number two e person,n as a joke, said it was ok to bug the poksident or i the 25th amendment, says much about the administration andrea: what some of our reporting was and the "new york times" reporting has been superb so i don't want to challenge directly but we were told that he basically said in frustration eetings andof these we know exactly who was in the meetings and a number of these people have been talked to, that he sd, what do you want me to do, andy, wear a wire? it washan context and you have to realize that andy mccabe was fir by rod rosenstein, eslly, and may, in fact, face ramifications for tt. there's an issue of whether he ded to the f.b.i. there's a bookl involved. we don't know about the motivations there. robert: "the times" ss based on reporting about memos

about these discussions from 2017.e andrew mccas fired from the f.b.i. and a report found him to haveak improper action so now you have andy mccabe, with tensns with rod rosenstein, current attorney general, who oversees the russia probe. you brought up about the fferent people in the administration who are, you think back to the woodward book, "fear," the "new york times" op-ed, is t asn administrative coup d'etat to use woodward's phrase, that is being painted by these stories? nancy: it felt like that, when you read the story today, like someone thought it was time to build a case to get rid of rodin rosensnd started talking. you have seen a big shift among republicanin their comfort vel with the president perhaps replacing jeff sessions so the quesyon is would t have that same comfort level ifte rod rose was to depart. robert: what happens if rosenstein goes? y

nanc'd have to replace him and have another confirmation process and you rememberhat grassley famously said months ago that he doesn't have time to confirm a new attorney generalpp and hers to have softened on that but much like sessions, republicans, by and large in the senate, actually think i rosenste doing a good job and he's obviously playing aca de, important role overseeing the russia investigation so they don't have any interest in rocking the boat. robert: joke or not, dan, when you have a person at this level of the department of justice using this kind of casual conversation, regardles of how we want to interpret it, how what does that tell you about how this administration sees its own president? dan: there have beenow soany examples of this that what it tells you is that there is no confidence, at very high levels of the administration, in the president's consistency, his reliability, his judgment, the way he operates.

they may share the agenda, as the anonymous op-ed writer did. but a theyatch this president, they are alarmed anyf numberimes and this has happened over a long period of months. this is juse one m example. i think the other thing it tells us is what we already have known which is the degree to which the justice department is now in turmoil. some of it caused internally. some of it caused as a result of what the president has done wits jesions. but we have not seen the end of that piece of the story. andrea: i don't think there's any doubt that jeff sessions either will be resigning or be fired after the election and that wouldotentially lead to a domino effect where rod rosenstein's job already would be in jeopardy and it does jeopardize some aspects of the mueller probe. the other thing is that we've noticed, that i have been told, since the woodwarook came out in particular, that at some of

the key meetings of the principals and deputies' committee, the key national security meetings bolton is running, key agency players whor di with policy decisions, are not invited, to eliminate potential leaks. they are really closing -- circling the wagons, trying to crack down on any reporting out of some of these meetings in the future. robert: andrea brought out that attorneyeneral sessions, the president said i don't even have an attorneeneral talking to the hill. how close are you talking to urces of a major upheaval at d.o.j.? peter: you can see something is really blowing up. the other thing that didn't get as much attention is the corruption of the f.b.i. is a cancer on the country. that's extraordinary. what dan just said, he is at war

with the law enforcement apparatus in this country and also under investigation by the in enforcement apparat this country and we're in unchartered territory in many ways and after the election anything could win especiay if democrats win. robert: mentioning the 25t amendment, getting members of the cabet -- peter: still a far-fetched scenario. something people on the leftay may be great but requires the vice president of the united states and half the cabinet to say -- and an appeals cfeuse in . the president could say don't agree i'm incapitated and two-thirds of the house and nenate would have to overt the president's judgment to put the vice president -- nancy: you also have to think t about the frame in which this happened. as volatile as things are right now, that was right after the president had met with russian officials in the ovalffe, divulged classified information to them. it was right at the start of his presidency so people were alvoady very n and this

was a very real concern that we were heang at that point, is, is he going to understand the rus oflassified information and all the other strictures thatexist when you president of the united states. so there was a great deal of nervousness. some of that has relaxed over time, as they've put in place some boundaries and peter knows more about that than i do, to make sure somef the third rails aren't touched. robert: some things have changed but these weeks are as busy as ever. thanks, everybody. our conversation will continue online on the "washington week extra." you can find that later tonight and all weekon at pbs.org/washingtonweek. thanks so much for this great table tonight. wonderful conversation and thank you for joining us. i'm robert cos. seeou next time.

announcer: funding for "washington week" is provided by -- newman's own foundation, donating all profits fromne an's own's food products to charity and nourishing the common good. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. koo and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation, committed bridging cultural differences in our communities. rpthe ation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers le you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org.] sic)

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