♪[music] >> saving kavanaugh. senator susan davis throws her decisive vote behind president trump's supreme court nominee. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> i will vote to confirm judge kavanaugh. >> a heated week i washington. the precarious supreme court nomination of brett kavanaugh moved toward a final vote as the f.b.i. investigated allegations of sexual assault and misconduct, sparking a wider debate over power, politics, and gender. >> for goodness sakes! this is the united states of america! nobody is suppoltd to be g until proven innocent. >> let them look back ons t chapter as the shameful culmination of the scorched earth politics practiced by the hard right in america. >> for democrats,bl some reans and victims ofal

sexu assault, a moment of reckoning. for many republins, a controversy becomes a rallying cry, just weeks ahead of themi dterms. >> think of your son, think of your husband. i've had many false accusations. i've had so many. and when i say it didn't happen, nobody believes me. >> we report on the high stakes, next. ♪[music] >> thisng is "wasn week." funding is provided by... ♪[music] >> kevin! >> kevin! >> advice for le. life well planned. learn more at... >> funding is provided by... newman's own foundation. donating all profits from newman's own food products to charity and nourishing the common good.

the yuen foundation. committed to bridgg cultural differences in our communities. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the cooration for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you! once again, from washington, moderator robert costa. >> good evening. porters began the day at the capitol. and we crowded around senators withur notebooks. the faces of lawmakers and both parties were strained. protesters were chanting outside. there, at the ecenter of our nation's cultural divide, the fate of presidentrump's supreme court nominee, brett kavanaugh, who has been accused of sexual assault and other, misconduas on the line. and by late friday afternoon, kavanaugh was poised to become the next justi on the supreme urt. why? the key swing vore, sen susan davis, republican of maine, said in a lengthy speech that she would vote yes

on kavanaugh, giving him enoughr votes confirmation. >> we must always remember that it is when passions are most inflamed that fairness is most in jeopard the presumption of innocence is relevant to the advice and consent function when an accusation departs from a nominee's otherwise exemplary record. >> a final vote on the nomination is expected this weekend. joining me around the table tonight, ashleyhoarker, white e reporter for the washington post. carl hulse,ng chief wasn correspondent for the new york times. abbye phillip, whouse reporter for cnn. and kelly o'donnell, white correspondent for nbc news. what a dayl on capi hill, kelly. >> amazing.

s> when you listened to susan davis, was t someone who was always a swing vote and just turning at the 11th hour, or was this someone who was always trying to get to yes? >> from the time that brett kavanaugh wasceamed, her c that she expressed was, would he be reliable in the area of roe vs. wade? because she is one of the rare abortion rights advocates in the republican party. ander personal meeting made such a difference. but when the allegations came out, when i had contact with her, she was concernedbout mark judge, the high school era friend of brett kavanaugh.as and shart of the group that wanted that additional f.b.i. information. he did submit to that, mark judge. ctparently. we don't know e what was said, but everyone was saying he was unable to corroborate thet acco given by dr. christine blasey ford. and for susan davis, that appeared to end the issue. i think what was so profound is, in many ways, she made the best reasoned, calm case for brett

kanaugh on the court that we have heard in the whole three months that he has been a nominee. an did it at the moment where there was the most fire and anger over his nomination. in some ways, it's a surprise. but she, i think, was leaning toward being a yes all along. >> cm, to be sure, carl, but she was pretty aggressive at times, going after dr. ford's testimony, gently questioning aspeccs of hernt. what did this whole moment tell us about senator collins, the supposed maverick? >> it was definitely a defining moment for susan davis. dshe'll be remembeor this, and every decision from now on that bre kavanaugh issued when we assume he gets on the court, it will be weighed against her. i thi that -- i agree she wanted to get to yes, from the beginning. she likes brett kavanaugh. e thinks that he is somewhat from the part of the republican partyam that she'siar with, the bush administration, as opposed to the trumpst admition. i like to say that judge kavanaugh is really a bush nominee, since he comes out of

that. >> and he's been calling her as well, former president bush has been calling her. >> and he's coming from there. and sheas also worried that if kavanaugh fails, then the next nominee is going to be more conserva you know, this was susan davis as former staffer. she was very, you know, methodical. she did her research. didll her homework, read all the opinions. and she put together this speech ere she just went point by point by point and to explainel he but already, the left is mad at her. and, yw, if she decides to run again in 2020, this is orviously going to be a overwhelming issue her. >> that point about bush, ashley, you think about the republican pty under president trump. they don't like his tweets sometimes. but they know, at the end of the day, they want stack the supreme court with conservatives that they like. gettingl like they're something out of this bargain. >> and this is really the bargain that these republicans have made all. alo they don't like the tweets. they don't like the tone.

they don't like the style. they often sometimes don't even like the substance. but they realize that these appointments, not just to the supreme court, although that cannot bete overs enough, but even just to sort of hp stock the conservative judiciary, which has been happeni very quietly behind the scenes, since the president took office, is one of the key issues where the president is really on their side. so they're willing toer te all of these other things. if you even look at this trio of senators, and again, murkowski not voting in the direction they wanted, but everyone else. when the president came out, and for ins ance, talke mocked dr. ford at that rally in one wasippi, eve aghast. they could not believe it. yet that didn't detract from this ultimaterize, which is getting the conservative, in thisge case, j kavanaugh, on to the supreme court. ush was calling the senators. was the white house deeply involved here? >> the president was not

cessarily deeply involved, because his input wasn't necessary. it would not hav been helpful. but the white house counsel iser then, you know, the man behind the curtain here for the white house, when it comes to judicial nominations. he is the person driving this whole thing. he is in close contact with senate leaders all the time. he's always on the phone with the people that h be needs to on the phone with to find out what's going on. and i think we saw his input in some really key ways. for example, the op-ed that o writeavanaugh decided is one that was kind of a risk in some ways. t it seemed necessary to address a really importantle prfor kavanaugh, which is that even though he was ee whened as a bush nom he got in there, his testimony last week made people wonde has he just transformed into a trump nominee? has he just become a different kind of supreme court i think the white house tried to recalibrate him this week. necessary, because one thing i did not hear susan

davis talk about iner -- susan collins talk about in her speech was that very issue. she did not give any more credence to the idea that there were real doubts about brettli kavanaugh's a to be a measured person on the court. >> you mentioned mcgahn. but another person involved in everything, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. you wte the story for the times this week, about mcconnell giving the senators what they want. an f.b.i. investigation that goes on for another week. givinghem the time to talk it through. such a fragile nomination, yet mcconnell seems to have got it across the finis line. >> fragile up to today with lisa murkowski. we didn't know what was going to ppen with her. this is mitch mcconnell's thing. he wants to populate trt c this is now the second trump nominee that he'll be able to say that put on the court. and it's interesting about don mcgahn. you have to remember, brett kavanaugh wasn't on's tru original list of nomination. there weree s machinations to get him on to that list, because

he's a creature of washington d and trump wasn't maybe going to look that favorably on this. this is a great victorytc for mcconnell. he was certainly relieved after susan collins' speech. he gave her the shout-out, said this was an inspirational speech, one of best i've seen in the history of the senate, cause it saved him. because the conservative community, as you kw, is still a little suspicious of mitch mcconnell. >> let's talk about that suspicion, because the conservative community in the senate, on the outsi all watching kavanaugh, a little rattled by what happened with hisesmony. before senator collins defended judge kavanaugh's credentials on the senate floor today, the judge, as abby said, presented his own defense in the wall street journal. in anp-ed, herote, he was, quote, too emotionalast week when senators questioned him and his accuser, dr. christine asey ford. he said, quote, i know my tone was sharp and i said a few things i should not have said.

you can count on me being hard working, even keeled, open-minded, dedicated to public good. he's writing that for the moderate replican senators like senator lisa murkowski of alaska. yet murkowski inhe noolumn. >> it was a big high-profile op-ed with a very limited audience. lisa murkowski of alaska had also been prettylear that s had issued that were -- issues that were very home state. and for her, the affordable care act, preexisting conditions, something very important in alaska and there were reasons to be concerned about that in his record. and native american, indigenous people's a sovereignty, federal lands issue. that does not come up in a lot of places, but in alaska, it matters. it matters so much in her own story, because her write-in election save, one of the .reatest comebac she'd been beaten by a tea party

conservative. many of the alaskan indigenous people were among her most strong supporters. so this was predictable. she talked about believing he's a good manut not the right man in this moment for the court. >> what about the red statede crats? you think about senator camp of north dakota. one of her sibling said she had to vote no, because she needed to be able to look in the mirror when she brushes her teeth. >> from the republican side and white house side, they wer practically lethal about the way this was playing out, because they recognized it was going to put a lot of these red state democrats in aren ibly difficult situation. but i think the way she voted, and the sort of moral dilemma she seemed to face, gets at a lot of these issues. it wasn't just about a nominee to the supreme court. what you had was isss of, you know, he said/she said and temperament andohol abuse or

lack thereof and gender and politind legacy, all crashing up against this me too era, whichs rapidly changing and shifting. so the senators weren't just considering one thing. they weren't considering only do they believe kavanaugh or do they believe dr. ford but they s were considerit of the full spectrum of, what does this vote mean for women? what does this vote mean for women who were victims s ofual assault? thist was all ripped into very potent mix. >> and it changes the court potentially for aenation to come, tilting it to the right. >> and that's why the stakes are so high, especially for someone like kampf. i think there's a sense that hei ra really spreading out. she's losing. if it were m chse, this would be a much more difficult stitiodecision foras her. t were, if she's going to lose, there's probably a sense that sheht o to make the morally right decision for her

about where she wants the court to be going forward. that's why the stakes are so high for democrats and republicans right now. this wasorhe ball game republicans. i think even if they had lost some political capital. >> this fight, it would have been worth it f someone like mitch mcconnell, because you can't get a do-over on aupreme court seat. the next time a seat comes up, it may or may not be trump's term. if it's toward the end of trump's term, ity might s open until the next election. this could be the last shoteend theyd to take it, because this is changing the court for an entire letime. >> it was painful for everyone. i think when you look at heidi de camp, you're looking at a woman in the democrat party whor has a f in the democratic party. she could easily be the attorney neral of the united states under a democratic president. she was the a.g. in her home state. i don't think you could survive

in democratic politics if you voted for judge kavanaugh. i think she made a choice that she can live with and one that actually i think ensures a greater future for her. >> she might take agecretary, though. >> she would be good at that too. and jeff flake, who really brought about that moment wherew the additionak, which i think for many people helps to validate the process,elthough nvestigation itself has been so attacked by those who don't think it was fairou or th enough, but he's an interesting case, because he is a corservative to the elso, trying to bring humanity back to the senn the final months of his time. and yet hep ended u being a yes. >> i felt we were covering the hamlet of arizona, yet he always, as you say, ends up at yes. questions about the process. >> he looked so pain through the ocess. >> he did. >> then we have joe manchin. t of west virgini >> so he comes on late. >> he walked out late. he was waiting t wo st happened obviously.

he seemed very tied to susan collins. fact, he announced his yes vote for confirmation as she ended her speec i think for joe manchin, that was a good vote for west virginia. >> why? >> because thiss -- trump is super popular there. he's running right now. this is very close to the election. i think he was in pretty good shape honesy, but iook at this, if you gain the south politically, it was a srt move. he's a former governor too. he's one of those people who believes in the executives' right to make a point. >> let's go back to something ashley talked about, which is president trump at the rlies. last week, president trump said dr. ford's testimony was compelling. but a feways later, he made the decision to mock her during a rally insi mippi. let's take a listen. >> i thought her testimony was very compelling but certainly she was a very credible witness. she wasery good in many respects. >> how did you get home? i don't remember. how did you get there? i don't rember. but i had one beer.

that's the only thing i remember. and a man's life is in tatters, ae man's l is shattered. >> the white house claimed the wesidentn't mocking ford, just setting the record straight. a stunning turn of events, to have president trump kind of be contained in his message and there at go right out a rally and go right at dr. ford. was he giving cover for republicans to be more aggressive in their messaging? un well, i think what was more ng was the contained president we saw. >> yes. >> but i will say that moment, it gave a lot of credittance to the -- credence to the republican establishment. even a number of trump voters have said they don't like that he said that. what is so stunning to me, if you talk to people in the president's orbit, and this was not a strategic hit, it was the president sort ofng a moment and going for it. but they think it was absolutely one of the most positive things he could have done to help pushe

ju kavanaugh over the finish line. and what they tell us, and they say he wasn't mocking her, but they say that he basically pointed out what they argue are fair gaps in her memory. fair potential problems with her story. and in dng so, the move the focus and scrutiny away from judge kavanaugh's youthful drinking and dauchly and on to her a little bit and it sort of gave republicans, allies in these outside groups, republican senators, the sort of green light to go and be an incredibly aggressive and shift thatha momentum ands what we saw in these past few days, until today's vote. >> does that green light extend to the democrats? do they watch the president and say the me too movement, women's voetrs are going to up in arms, as much as republican up?rs have their anger >> i think the dynamics are so divided along party lines. the president is doing somethint

e thinks is resonating with his voaforts. he may -- wither his v he may very well be right about ge.t, at this late s motivating republicans to come out is his number one job. i think that's what he was a trying to d that rally in mississippi. on the democrat side, their momentum is already pretty high. their enthusiasm is already pretty high. i think this me too moment only amplifies that and it clarifies the issues around not just some of the policyth issues like he care, but the cultural issues that the democrats want to run but president trump is, as ashley said, g hee republicans some key permission not just in the kavanaugh fight butoward november to lean into some of these cultural issues and get their base really ginned up around the culture that they want to see in this country. and that'soing to beart of the recipes for november for them. >> i think the question for republican is, we'd seen this little uptick in enthuhaasm. does now go away? because they got their win.

voters, i hate to say, don't typically go to reward you bor the -- for the great things you did. they go to punish you. i think the strategists who are looking at that are saying to themselves, and some of their colleagues are saying, let's st get him on right now so we have some time for this to die down among republicans, while we fan the flames amo our voters. >> and 30 days in trump world is a lifetime in politics. to kee that energ up is going to be a big challenge. some of the things the president said about dr. for and the gaps, as the white house described it,or reis what people already think about the president. it blends into his sort of style and hashness and the rhetoric -- harshness and the rhetoric he so it was less of a risk for him, especially in the way it has sort of given people a way to look at the argument differently. for democrats, dr. ford will be figure importance for a long time to come. and she has certainly been

harmed by this process, but also has a -- just an enormous well of good will that has come to her. they didn't get the result tha perhaps they wanted, although she was always careful to say it was not her choice to make whether he be on the court or not. >> in the white house, for thepr ident to be doing that, the president's allies would argue that in a way he's the perfect boogeyman. he's fulfilling a very natural role and he's sort of doing the bidding that no one else wants to do. i went back. i rewatched it, timed it, that ff, it was actually only 36 seconds. but it was the perfectt s of prosecutorial case that could be replayed and replayed on cab news and sort of fill that vacuum and provide republicans with cover and make the white house' case. and that is what trump sort of intuitively understands so well as former reality television star. >> and one of the main lessons that we ought to tak away is we

did see the typical people like flake and collins saying, i wouldn't have said that. it was inappropriate. whatever. but ultimaidly, thatt change the way they voted. this is the pattern. republicans are able toze compartmentahe bad parts of trump in their view and still do what they need to do to get judge kavanaugh on the supreme court. >> when you'reng to senators, republicans, and congssmen, are they talking about trade? that was the big issue earlier in the week.tr the presidentes this trade deal. the president with the economy, the jobs report. or is it culture? grievance? is that the way the tide is turn>>g? think they're frustrated, because i think that they've passed some t bills --ir big opioid bill that they passed. >> got no attention. >> the trade deal which they icink is really good. this was ary for the property. but it's getting no attention. e tax bill is getting no attention. i think they realize that some of these things they were hoping to carry them through the election aren't resonating. mitch mcconnell said, after the

tax bill was passed, if we can't sell this in the next election, we shouldn't be re-elected. he may find out that is the they didn't really have an opportunity to break through all this much louder din over brett kavanaugh, me too, sexual assault. things really do resonate with people. this has been talked about all over the country in all sorts of arenas. it is a constant topic of conversation. no one really talked about the new mexicea-canada trade >> one of the unemployment falling to half century lows, great job numbers. this is great economy. and president trump is not getting credit for it. i mean, i think that's pretty clear. the republican party is not gettingredit for it. that has got to be very, very stressful for but that's why i do think this idea of culture driving trump o voters is really important. i think the president

understands that. he knows that he needs to speak to his voters, not just on policy but on other issues that he thinks coalesces them around him. >> and he's heading o to a big campaign run in the next few weeks. >> oh, my goodness, we areoing to b so exhausted. there will be so much travel with the president. and he is trying to drum up that support and get to those visceral issues you're talking about. i do wonde if west virginia will be off the table now for the final 30 days. >> probably not. >> leave senator manchin alone perhaps. he is going -- and one thing i find too, it'sever airect flight to a trump event. s requires that he g a double hop, right? >> yes. >> we've lived this. but he expects to be on the road most of october. 's been raising money. most of these events include a public event where there's rally type atmosphere and then preceding that, there are usually some big dollar trying to raise coffers for all of the candidates, both house level and

senate. we don't always see that withpa presidents cning for house races. >> i also think you're seeing anothe strategy from the republicans, now that they have seemably won this. they're gonna talk about this is how the democrats would be ifey e in power. this is the kind of -- >> he keeps talking about that. >> these are the kind of actions that you're gonna see if they take over t house. they're just going to be destructive and after us. so they're hoping that that can keep the energy up. >> all-out political war on campaignill, on t trail. we'll be covering it all. we have to leave it there. thanks, everybody, for joining us tonight. our conversatn will continue on the "washington week" podcast. it's available on the "washington week" website at pbs.org/washingtonweek andhe alo on apple podcast app. i'm robert costa. thanks for joining us.

♪[music] >> funding is provided by... financialerces firm, raymond james. newman's own foundation. donating all profits from newman's own food pr to charity and nourishing the common good. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you!

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