to "amanpour" and company. here's what's coming up. the sudden resignation of u.n. ambassador nikki haley was the unconventional trump foreign policy squarely in the pot spotlight. an american diplomat said he had to quit because he could no longer defend that policy. my exclusive interview. then as new details emerge and fears mount, the saudi journalist jamal khashoggi has been murdered, critics wonder has trump's foreign policy emboldened regimes to act with inpunity. and looking a on the right

side with eric idol, founding member of monte python's flying circus. by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. >> welcome to the program. i'm cristiane amanpour in london. u.n. ambassador nikki haley's sudden departure throws a bright light on what may be the major foreign policy challenge facing the trump administration. the persistent concern over president trump's tendency to denigrate america's allies while praising authoritarian leaders. that very issue compelled veteran u.s. diplomat jim melville, who was serving as ambassador to estonia, to quit his post and walk away for more than 30 years as a career porn services officer. he says the president's admiration for vladimir putin and russia's corrupt authoritarian government put him in an untenable position when asked to explain america's intentions. last week -- now as a private citizen he is free to speak his

mind. he is joining me for his first and exclusive interview from new york. ambassador, welcome to the program. >> thank you, it's a pleasure to be with you. >> it couldn't be a more opportune time to be speaking to you. we are grate tofl have you. as i laid out, there is so much to talk about. first, in context of your own resignation and your own professional reasons for doing so, what do you make of an even more senior diplomat, a cabinet member, nikki haley, u.n. ambassador, sudden resignation, sudden departure. of course, it's effective the end of this year. >> right. let me say fiction of all, that as ambassador, when the trump administration took office last january for diplomats words are like our fuel. and the fact that secretary of state tillerson chose not to engage with the press and went many, many weeks without doing

the press briefings or talking to journalists, it was like being deprived of oxygen. and in those days i was very grateful that ambassador haley spoke eloquently and frequently about the best interests of the united states and stood up for our institutions and values. i think she did a very credible job as u.n. ambassador. so i think it's a shame that somebody who is so talented and really has the president's confidence has left the administration. but i'm sure that she hasn't left the public stage, and perhaps she will be able to engage a little bit more freely as a private citizen about her opinions and sticking up for our institutions. >> that's interesting. i see a sort of maybe a coded message that you think many at the u.n. that she was always eying a public run for public

office in the united states and this was an overnight vehicle that, to by all accounts, she acquitted herself doing this job. what impact on foreign policy do you think it will have given your immediate concerns about, you know, the denigration, as you put it, of allies and alliances, the praise and sort of authoritarian regithor ter - >> it's a strange thing. most of the institutions are secretary of defense, secretary of state, the intelligence community, the law enforcement community still speaks for our institutions and our interests, and i think for the most part the message is consistent with what have been our policies for many, many decades. what i came to really have a hard time with was the ai

historical rhetoric of the president himself and the disconnect between his words and what other leaders were saying became more and more difficult for me to explain and understand. >> okay. just quickly, fill in those blanks there. what did you mean the disconnect between his words and what other leaders were saying? just fill in those blanks for me. >> well, it started for me, remember i was the u.s. ambassador in estonia. estonia, in the last 300 years, has spent the last 250 of them occupied by russia. so there is a great sensitivity to their neighbor to the east. and the solution to that geographic challenge that they face throughout their history was to embed themselves in the institutions of the west. these are the institutions that the united states built and led for many decades. primarily, that means nato.

during the campaign when candidate trump was saying that nato is obsolete and, in fact, one of his advisors, the former speaker of the house of representatives, was on television saying that, you know, perhaps estonia wasn't worth defending because it's a suburb of st. petersburg. it put me in a very difficult position when they took office. so i was looking right from the start for the administration to reassure our allies and return to the traditional rhetoric and language of american leadership regarding our feelty to nato and the institutions we belong to and elead and our allies were looking for that. so that was really important. and there were many, many leaders of the u.s. institutions and government in the legislative branch, in the

executive branch who came with messages of reassurance. it was a very important part of my job to bring that message to the he istonians that, the united states was true to our institutions, that article 5 was our commitment and we would continue to live by promises that we made to our allies. >> you mentioned what president trump always has campaigned about. actually, the president himself around the nato summit this year made similar comments about montenegro. why should i send my son or anybody's to fight to defend montenegro. we will get to that in a moment i wanted to also ask you what you think should be the appropriate u.s. response to the disappearance of journalist jamal khashoggi who obviously is a saudi. as we all know, saudi arabia and the current crown prince is firm ally of president trump. president trump made his first visit as president to saudi arabia. we are just getting word that

the president has said that he is speaking and has spoken to the highest levels of the saudi government, but we don't know anymore details. what should the united states do in this case with an ally so close? >> first of all, we should insist on knowing the truth. mr. khashoggi was a prominent journalist and spoke for many in saudi arabia. his opinions mattered. and for any government to assassinate, as has been alleged, a leading journalist is a tragedy and a serious threat to international order. we need to know what the truth is. the saudis owe us that truth. >> of course, we have to say that in each occasion when we ask for the saudis to comment publicly, they haven't come on television. they send us statements. they continue to categorically,

and i use that word because it says, deny any involvement in this and say they are trying to work it out themselves. do you -- well, what i said at the beginning of the program was do you believe, having said what you just said, that it's up to the u.s. to speak out very, very vociferously to demand the truth, to demand accountability. do you think given what you think about this president and the tendency towards the strong man rulers is there a sense of permission to act with impunity, you know, that they might sublimly take with their relationship from the president and what he says in public? >> well, one of the things that i find most horrifying is the idea that the press and the media are the enemy of the people. for those of us who speak russian and have served in that part of the world, those are particularly loaded terms, and i

believe that the role of journalists such as yourself is so important in defending our institutions and preserving our democratic order. so mr. khashoggi, being a journalist and member of the profession, his fate is tied to why it is so important that we have freedom of the press and we do value that promise in our constitution. i do not understand why facts and good journalism are perceived as being against the interests of the united states or the institution. >> let me put this to you. there is a group now, a mounting group of american foreign policy experts, former ambassadors and others, who are beginning to write major books and scholarly works trying to figure out america's global right now. they are coming down on the sort

of conclusion that america is abandoning its slippery leadership role, particularly in the alliances and human rights that you have been speaking about. bob keagan is one of those. but about this issue on khashoggi, he said, sometimes a particular event, the fate of a particular individual becomes a symbol of a global historical trend. the reported murder of the saudi journalist jamal khashoggi is one of those moments. it symbolizes the departure of the united states as a restraining force against eviling actors in the world. so there is no u.s. ambassador to saudi arabia right now. that's one big issue that seems to be a gaping hole. but do you agree with what kagan says that, you know, it symbolizes the departure of the united states as a restraining force against evil actors in the world? >> bob is an old and a very wise observer.

i absolutely do agree with what he said. it's very important for those of us who have a platform to repeatedly stress the importance of our commitment to our values. human rights. free journalism. these are the things that should drive how the united states engages with the rest of the world, including saudi arabed s leadership. to hold them to account for what happened in that consulate in istanbul is in the keeping with the united states. >> all these things you are saying and recommendations you are saying for this administration presumably add up to the reason why you quit, why you resigned not just your post, but from the foreign service? >> well, i had a long career. i had a -- my most successful career.

in fact, the administration had nominated sometime before i left someone to replace me. his nomination was withdrawn at the end of may and i was given the option to stay on. but i had managed to get through the six months that estonia had the presidency of the eu, which was very important to our ally and they did a wonderful job with those responsibilities and it was also a platform that i could use to engage with washington at a little bit higher attention level because of estonia's role. then in february, estonia celebrated it's 100th anniversary of independence and there was a baltic summit with the presidents of latvia, estonia on april 3rd. so i had had almost three years in tollen when i was facing that decision of whether i should stay or go.

but it was increasingly difficult. as i said in my op-ed and in my facebook post in june, to explain or understand the difference between the president's language and the language that was coming out of the rest of the u.s. government. >> so let me -- >> so i decided to leave. i did not plan originally to be quite so public, but it was -- when the president went on the attack against nato directly and the eu, that i felt the better choice for me was to leave so i could have conversations with people like you about how we can do better. i want the president to succeed. you know, it's in every american's interest that we have a successful administration and a president who can do the job well. >> i am going to get it that in a moment. first i want to ask you this because again it's being raised

by more conservative thinkers and activists in the united states in the wake of nikki haley's resignation, that there needs to be a robust america first candidate who gets the job of the next u.n. ambassador. but you have written that, in this op-ed that you described, that america first is a sham. so -- and you talked about what you have just been talking about, the rhetoric coming out of the white house on nato and other such alliances. when you say america first is a sham and the president is busy saying that he is racking up all sorts of victories that make america first and, as you heard, nikki haley said in the two years i have been here, the two years of the trump administration, the world may not like us so much, but they certainly respect us. why do you say it's a sham? >> first of all, i'd say that the united states is and has always been respected by our allies and adversaries.

that does not change from one administration to the other. i have spent better than 30 years as a non-partisan apolitical diplomat. and when it comes to relations in the world, international affairs, how we face the global challenges, it seems to me that, as senator vandenberg said a long time ago, politics stop at the water's edge. and whether you're a democrat or a republican, when it comes to the rest of the world, you are not adversaries, you're teammates and your rhetoric should reflect a commitment to our constitution, our institutions, our values. and i just -- i just think that we have a president who, for some reason, has an agenda that is, at least in terms of the language, that's in opposition

to the role of a president of the united states, as i have understood it to be. >> you know -- >> i -- >> yeah? >> my model for the -- i mean, in my 33 years, i think you could make a very strong argument for george h.w. bush as being the model leader in terms of how to engage with our allies and our adversaries and the global community. you want people who lead -- and we're all human beings. every political leader in every country is a human being. and when they are disrespected and their role is denigrated, it makes it harder for them in their own political world to stand by our side. and you want to make it easy for them to say, yes, you're right. the united states has a point. i'm happy to stand with my ally. but when you throw candy at the chancellor of germany or use hostile rhetoric against, good lord, the prime minister of canada, it's very hard to

understand and explain. >> what about when you make up or make nice with the leader of north korea, which was busy testing nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles? what about that? he claims that the tone and temperature has been dramatically reduced because of his style and his efforts. >> well, i think it's absolutely true that the hostility and the temperature has been turned down. and so in that regard, you know, i can't argue with the president that his personal engagement with the north korean leader has brought about good results. but, you know, that's an example of what i'm talking about. in that regard the president's rhetoric tracks more traditionally with the approach that i think a successful

president should have regarding leaders of other countries. and much better for them to be talking than for him to be calling him little rocket man. >> just a very final question. you know, you came -- you talked about the tillerson era. of course, now it's the pompeo era at the state department. there have been a lot of high-profile departures on matters of policy and principle and there is still a lot of ambassadorships in other key places unfilled. they are being filled more rapidly now. do you see a change for the better in terms of pursuing american global leadership around the world in the pompeo state department? >> yes, i do. i think secretary of state mike pompeo is doing a good job, and i think by returning to a more traditional approach to the vacancies and our response nl

responsibilities, it's very much tracking with what our best interests are. i wish my colleagues who are still in the state department, i wish them the best. their success is important for america. >> well we are very much appreciative of your insight. thank you very much for giving us this, your first interview, on an important day as we try to sink our teeth into all of these foreign policy challenges. so now we are going to dig more on the troubling disappearance of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi. we know that after a visit to the istanbul consulate he has not been seen since. today we learned that u.s. intelligence is monitoring communication intercepts trying to determine whether it happened under the direction or the knowledge of the heist levels of the saudi government, including crown prince mohammad bin salman. khashoggi is a well known journalist and "washington post"

columnist. he was once an advisor of saudi officials. he is an advocate for reform. with turkish officials telling journalists on background that khashoggi is dead and the saudis categorically denying any involvement still claiming he left the consulate through a back entrance, all we know for sure is he hasn't been seen since he entered the building on october 2. we asked turkish and saudi officials to come on our program every day since the story broke. and we have direct from khashoggi's fiance, hatice cengiz, that she has had no news of him and she is yet to be contacted by saudi authorities. she said she is in a state of deep confusion and sadness and she added i have a strange feeling like i failed to look after something so dear. speaking in the halls of congress today, senator lindsey graham, who sits on the armed services committee, said that this could be a game changer.

listen to what he said. >> never been more disturbed. if this happened, if this man was murdered in the saudi consulate in istanbul, that would cross every line of normality in the international community. if it did happen, there would be hell to pay. >> david kirkpatrick has been reporting on the story for "the new york times" and he is joining me now. david, welcome back to our program. we laid out some of the broad brushstrokes that we know, some of the new developments. just tell us what is your latest reporting? >> well, it's not for the squeamish. turkish government sources, government officials, have concluded that mr. khashoggi, jamal khashoggi, was killed in

the consulate. not only killed in the consulate. he was killed within two hours after arriving in the consulate by a team of 15 saudi agents who arrived on two different airplanes that day for the purpose of killing him. the turks believe they know the crew arrived for the purpose of killing him, in part because it happened so fast, but also because they brought with them an autopsy expert and a bone saw to dismember the body. so jamal khashoggi was not only killed in the consulate, according to the turkish government and intelligence sources. his body was also dismembered in order to remove it from the consulate. so it's horrific in many respects. >> david, it is horrific. i had not heard that detail about a bone saw and an autopsy expert. i mean, who is telling you this stuff? i obviously don't want you to give me name of your sources. of course, i'd love them, but

why haven't the turks come out and publicly made a conclusion? how are you getting this level of detail? >> so the president of turkey, erdogan, was briefed on these conclusions on saturday. that is when the leak first began to appear in the western press and also in "the new york times." so the turkish government at the highest level has known this. has had this picture for several days now. what the people in the government are telling me is that this information was collected through intelligence sources, and like every intelligence agency in the world they are reluctant to disclose information in a way that will expose their sources. i am guessing that we are talking about a combination of human informants and also signals intelligence that leads them to this conclusion. but they are certainly sticking

by it. and they are sticking by it in a case where there is no upside for them. turkey really does not need a rupture with saudi arabia. an important trading partner and another regional power. that's the last thing that turkey, especially with the economy in the current state, needs right now. they have no reason to try to make up lurid stories in order to enflame the tensions. >> what do you think is the reason, if they have this amount of detail, where is the surveillance video that presumably every consulate and embassy has, and what will it take for the turkish authorities to make their conclusions public? >> all right. now we know that there is surveillance video. there is security camera footage of jamal khashoggi going into the consulate. none has surfaced yet of him coming out. your question is a good one.

why are the turks leaking in so many directions and letting more and more details, damning details come out, including the names and identities of the alleged assassins, and yet on the record in public erdogan and those around him have not yet publicly made this accusation of saudi arabia? i have to believe, i'm told they are still hoping for some kind after faith-saving resolution for both sides. at the same time both of these two men, crown prince bin salman and president erdogan on the other, have robust egos. as the saudis go further and further to say we don't know what happened here, we have no idea what happened to jamal, we are as concerned as everyone and the same time the turks are leaking more and more damning details about the alleged assassination, it becomes much harder for each side to back down. i hear speculation about a scenario where the saudis might say, oh, he was killed, but it

was by rogue actors and the turks would accept that and everyone would move on. as each side digs into its respective and c contradictory position, it's hard to see how that would be worked out. >> i want to play you the latest we have heard from president trump who today has given his most detailed comments yet and we have reported that he has spoken to the highest levels of the saudi government and that this is what he said. >> we are demanding everything. we want to see what's going on here. that's a bad situation. frankly, the fact that it's a reporter, you could say in many respects it brings it to a level -- it's a very serious situation for us and for this white house. we do not like seeing what's going on. now, as you know, they are saying we had nothing to do with it. so far, everyone is saying they had nothing to do with it. it's inside of turkey.

and the turkish government is working very strongly so far. so we'll see what happens. >> well, david, you just saw the president said i don't know how much you can add to that. there has been reporting from "the washington post" that the united states intercepted communications that suggested that the saudis were, in fact, discussing a plan to capture khashoggi. you heard what senator lindsey graham said, that if indeed the worst is discovered, it would be, for him, he said a game changer regarding saudi arabia. at this point i also have to read out what the saudi arabiaans have said to us. ambassador prince bin salman who is the ambassador in the united states and the brother of the crown prince, we have seen over the last few days various malicious leaks and grim rumors flying around about jamal's fate. i can assure you he went missing in the consulate offist istanbu.

this is what they have been saying every day, and again today as you come out with this more -- more of this kind of reporting. are you getting through to any saudi sources, david? what are they saying? >> we're hearing the same blanket denials that you are right now. and as i say, if each side digs in, it becomes harder and harder to see how to gets resolved. the turkish government is hoping that president trump will step in. i don't think they are hoping that trump will in some way punish or ostracize saudi arabia. that's not in the cards. but to try to work out some kind of a compromise. i think the turkish people would like to be standing behind their american ally as they try to work this out. you get the feeling that the turkish government would accept some kind after compromise. but as yet it's hard to see how

president trump would accomplish that, or given his substantial commitment to saudi arabia and to crown prince mohammad bin salman personally, who he often praises and has expressed confidence in, it's hard to see his motivation to weigh in heavily here. >> yes. and the idea of coming up with a face-saving compromise and to try to get the united states to play into that would be incredibly controversial for the leader of the free world and not to mention, you know, human rights and first amendment and freedom and safety of the press and all the rest of it. it is actually quite extraordinary, this situation, and the way it's developing. we have all talked to jamal over the years. he has been a good source for all of us. before when he was an advisor working with the saudi officials in embassies and saudi arabia itself and even afterwards when he came out and started to talk against what he considered an overbearing crackdown on political activities at home.

he said several times that there was fear about what could happen to people who spoke out like him. this is what he said to cnn just a year ago. >> i received a phone call ordering me to go silent with no decree, with just someone from the royal court, an official from the royal court who was close to the leadership, and ordering me to be silent. that offended me. and that is what every other person can go through. i know many before they were arrested they had to go through that and sign pledges to their government. >> so there we are, david. he lays out what he was told and what others were told. you know, because he told us before, he himself was told to be silent. he was silent on twitter for about six months. then he decided he needed to leave because he couldn't be silent anymore.

describe for us a little bit the man, the reporter, you know, the reformist who you knew. >> well, so the thing about jamal khashoggi is he's not your classic dissident. i mean, he was, for a long period of time, the cons mitt consummate insider in saudi arabia. he had been a journalist in saudi arabia. he had been to afghanistan and interviewed osama bin laden. he worked inside the saudi embassy in washington, in london, and was an advisor to the royal family. he was someone who western diplomats and western journalists would turn to for the royal family's perspective. he was someone who could lay out in koej ent, reasonable, intelligent terms how the royal family saw things. over the last three years where he felt there is no room for him in saudi arabia and has gone

abroad is really remarkable. and even during the period when he left and had become a columnist for "the washington post" and a critic of the current saudi government, he would often say, you know, i am not against the monarchy. he was a saudi patriot. and by no means a radical. his differences were only with the specific saudi leadership and its policies of the moment. but if i can go back to it, i can't emphasize enough how widely known and really well liked he was among western diplomats and journalists because he was reliable. he was intelligent. he was lucid. he was impossible not to like really. >> so, david, why do you think, if this has happened, it would be an unprecedented reach by saudi arabia. it has had problems with dissonance in others before. but there has been nothing that we have heard about that comes close to this allegation.

what is going on inside the kingdom? you write a lot about that part of the world. you have written a whole new book with the arab spring and looking back at the political dynamic in that part of the world. what is happening there right now? >> well, if you are talking about the region -- >> saudi arabia. >> there has been a turn back towards authoritarianism. in saudi arabia you have to look at the personality of crown prince mohammad bin salman. here is a 33-year-old prince who has amassed a degree of power that is unprecedented in more than half a century in saudi arabia. it's a system where power was distributed among different branches of the royal family in part of the interest of stability. he has changed all of that in a big rush and really brought it all into his own hands. and having done that, he has made a number of previous steps which have shocked the west. and even alarmed the west. i'm talking about detaining 200

of the kingdom's businessmen without any judicial process. leading the three-year-old war in yemen that many in the west call a humanitarian catastrophe. and for a few days appearing to kidnap the prime minister of lebanon and detain him against his will. so those are three things that you would think would have lost him the confidence of the west. yet, until now he has appeared to be in good standing. he had a tour of the u.s. he met with many prominent executives. he is welcomed to the white house. so, you know, perhaps -- i don't know what is going through his head. perhaps he feels nothing can stop him, that he can get away with it. on the other hand, he feels that all of the criticism is stinging him and he needs to silence mr. khashoggi for that reason. >> we have 30 seconds. might in change the perception? everybody wag looking -- there were columnists in the united states talking about a reformed saudi arabia.

he has his 2020 reform plan that all sorts of internationals were engaged with. could this flip that switch? >> you know, it's very hard to know whether it will. i mean, the argument that he was making for reform of the saudi economy i think remains a valid one. so it's too soon i think to tell what the final conclusion of international public opinion will be about what happened to jamal khashoggi and also what it means for perceptions of mohammed bad bin salman. >> it's a really dramatic story. we want know the truth about what happened to him. david kirkpatrick, thank you so much. joining us from an cora, in turkey. we are going to switch tone a little bit, nonetheless. freedom of speech has long been a topic of debate even within the world of comedy. for their time few faced more controversy over this than british comedian monty python. eric idle was a founding python. he has been clapping his coconut for five decades reminding us to

always look on the bright side of life. in his new biography, eric finds his voice in the '60s cultural revolution and recounts the famous faces and people he met on the way. a laugh down memory lane. >> you decided on a memoir. why? >> well, our 50th anniversary, monte python, is coming up next year, and i thought we are going to have to answer questions. so let me see what i can remember and write it down before i forget. >> someone else is going to write it if you don't. >> that's the other thing, yes. i mean, winston churchill said history will be kind to me because i intend to write it. >> why do you think monte python lasted 50 years or at least it's still funny? >> that is to me a wonderful mystery. and i think partly it's to do

with the fact that it's not rooted in time. like the comedy is generic. they are characters, but they are not like this particular president or like "saturday night live" when you look at old ones you think, oh, yeah, gerald ford fell over a lot. you have to remember that to begin to laugh. whereas, python's satire and the characters are just so silly or generic people. >> interested in photographs, eh? >> photographs. he asked him knowingly. >> photography? >> yes. >> snap, snap, snap, wink, wink, wink. >> you know, you are known for being a funny man. but as you start out in the book, you talk about a difficult childhood. the boarding school phase and before that losing your father at an early age. but that all of that helped you become the funny man that you are now. how is that? >> well, i think that people who

are comedians are very weird people. they have been damaged early because they have to -- it's the thing to do. to stand on the stage and ask people to laugh at you, you know? then they become sort of addicted to that bark that humans make, the laugh. and that becomes a kind of thing you seek out as you do professionally. i remember going to my daughter's school and going into pre-k and knowing exactly who were the funny kids. they are right there. they're funny right from that time. >> how do you tell? how can you tell? >> it's just an attitude. a lot of it is attitude because comedy is a sort of, i think it's a way of thinking. so when you look at a news event, you immediately interpret it as funny. i see looking for what is interesting or wrong about it.

and that's -- i think that's a way of thinking that makes comedy or comedy writers, that's how they do it. >> did this early boarding school period kind of teach you a healthy disrespect for authority? >> very much so. yes. you could only have fun by disobeying the coschool rules. it's like being in the military or a prison. on the surface you are behaving properly like this, but really you are going over the wall to meet girls or get beer or cigarettes or things like that. i think that was one of the things. the other thing is you were seriously mocking some of the things they say to you, although you don't ever tell them that. we were beaten with canes. they would say, oh, it's for your own good. you go, if it's for my own good, why don't i beat you? it will be nice for you, too, you know? so, yes, there is an underlying subtext, which is the truth. and i think that was true, say,

in communist societies where people weren't allowed to say anything, but underneath there was this underground humor going all the time. >> one of your first bits that was written by john cleese, but you were in college at the time, this is a biblical weather forecast? >> yes. it was started as a biblical newscast. it was called bbc-bc. good evening, the first chapter of the news. >> right. >> and they were, you know, kind of very college kind of jokes. but then the weather forecasters came on and he is talking about the plagues, you know, locusts and lies and flies and tuesday frogs. so i did that in my college debut and it was written by john cleese. this is my second term and after the show he came up and i met him. so he is like, february 1963. >> you decided to be friends ever since? >> well, no.

he asked me to join the foot fight. a club in cambridge just for comedy. i hadn't heard of it. he says, well, come along anyway. and you have to audition to get in. and i got in. then my life changed because that sort of became my college. >> yeah. >> you know, they gave lunches. we had a bar that was open at 10:30 at night. it was fantastic. the pubs closed in england at 10:00. so it was a nice -- and then i met really funny people and learned about comedy, which is any way you can, by getting up on stage and doing it. >> you had an amazing opportunity at the bbc to run with this, this group of friends, and brigwrite this material. >> did they understand what they were buying? >> no, because we didn't know what we were doing. we didn't know what we were going to do. >> you were in the pitch meeting and you don't know what's going on? >> we had no idea. we just said we don't know.

we don't know. yeah, a band? no, we weren't a band. film? yeah, we'll have film. they said just go away and make 13. extraordinary. but what they knew -- they knew us. we had written for frost. we were all professionals. we had done children's shows. john was already a star because he had been on the frost report, so they trusted him. they didn't really want to know because it was a new slot. they were opening up after 10:30 at night on a sunday when the queen came on, on the horse, and thin television closed down. so they didn't really mind. they were just exploring that territory. what happens if we put on a show sunday night after the pubs are closed? they had no idea who would be watching and they had a lot of complaints, but they were very good. they just ignored them and let us do what we wanted and they never even read the scripts.

it's that thing, yeah, just do that thing. >> when you guys are in the room writing monte python sketches, you are not necessarily looking at this as actors? >> no, we're not actors. we are writers. that was one of the original things about it. the whole show was written by the six of us. and we acted everything. and so, you know, even the women's roles, we would do them because we wanted more parts. six people to go around, you know what i mean? and so we played everything, and that is the kind of -- it also gave it a madness quality to it. but the writers were in charge always. >> the name of the book, always look on the bright side of life, is named after a song that you wrote. and it is one of the most iconic scenes in the history of monte python. there you are on crucifixes and

singing always look on the bright side of life. >> yeah. >> and apparently it is now still the number one song being played at funerals in the u.k. >> this is true. well, for starters, that's eye chron ron i can, you know -- ironic, you know. not long to go. but what happens, it started to be sung in the fall cans war. the sailors sat on the deck for three hours singing that song while they were waiting to be rescued. then when they were doing, was it the gulf war, the bombers who did those low-level things, when they are suiting up to go, they would sing always look on the bright side of life. so it became a sort of, you know, when things are really bad and bleak, it became a way to sing and to cheer up. >> yeah. do you want this at your

funeral? >> i don't know. i told my wife i want you to sit on my face and tell me that you love me, but i've left a bribe for her to say something really awful. >>yeah. >> she gets extra money. not that. something else. if she'll say that, i have left a little extra bonus money if she comes up with it at the memorial. >> when that movie came out, a life of brian, there were protests in the united states, protests in the u.k. you had rabbis, christians, all kinds of people, could not deal with what you were trying to do at the time. >> no, no, we were supposed to come here and do promotion. they said forget it. it's on the news. people protesting. they were picketing warner bros. in l.a. >> they said they were agents of the devil. they didn't need us. once you are on the news --

>> you got free publicity. >> yeah, every night. >> so it was a blockbuster success? >> yeah. >> and you also have other major films that every 12-year-old boy remembers. holy grail. i also wonder what it is it about these movies that goes beyond the 12-year-old boy? >> i think it's very funny. i think grail has a lot of regular laughs in it, you know. it's not taking itself seriously in film making terms. it does look like a real film. and they are behaving in very childish ways. taunting, you know, and having pigs and cows thrown at them. >> what's not to like about that? bring out the head. >> you know, we were actually filming it in nasty mud and horrible situations. so it did, you know -- >> you were miserable when you were there. the misery was real? >> that's always funny. if it's really unpleasant, you

can be fairly sure it's funny. >> this is one function of your life, being part of monte python. you have gone on to write music, write plays, that a play familiar it to people in the united states, spam a lot, that critically did at the box office quite well. >> i was trying to write a musical. we wrote one about cricket, which clearly won't work in america. i thought the grail is perfect. it's like a parity of vargna. and also you could do it on stage. it didn't need horses. and it's really funny. and it seems to be always about to be a song. i mean, surely i am not dead yet was always in the holy grail, but it wasn't. so we got to adapt it for the stage and we had to change it a lot because there is 98 characters in the film because no shape whatsoever and is stopped by the police, just stopping it, noi? so -- but i had mike nichols to

work with, although i think i had done it by then. so that was great fun adapting for the theater. it was really great fun. that 25 million people who watched that play, and we are about it to it as a movie. >> this has afforded you a fairly fantastic life as you write in the book. you have got ton sort of hobnob with royalty, whether it's rock and roll or the actual prince or some amazing people that you talk about in the book that that's not what the kid that was growing up in that town was destined to do or be? >> right. well, that's sort of in a way because we were part of this generation who were of the '60s, who invented everything. because there was nothing there. it was all bomb sites and rationing and it was really awful. there wasn't a comedy show three years before that we are now on, and that -- what happened is that all the rock 'n rollers loved what we were doing because they loved comedy. they sort of sought us out.

we didn't go looking for them. >> you became really good friends with george harrison. what did he teach you? >> he was amazing. i mean, i think of him now as closest i have had to a guru. my marriage was breaking up and he was just always so positive and always so generous to everybody. i mean- >> didn't have to do with the fact that he was successful and rich? >> very early on you can't take it with you. i mean, that's one of the best examples, you know so what? you were there. you're still gonna die. he began preparing himself for his own death, which i was around for. he really had no regrets for fear. that was great. >> you also write a lot about robin williams. >> yes. >> you shared a long friendship. i mean, you would vacation with your families?

>> yeah, robin was a very good friend and just a wonderful man. a really generous, lovely genius. and that was just so hard wrenching. it was the last thing i wrote for the book. i finished the book and i thought, you have avoided robin. and i thought, well, i've got to write about him because people like to know what he was like. they obviously know his comedy, but what was he really like? i thought i had to write a chapter about him. and that was hard. i think i had been pretending he actually wasn't really gone. >> there is a streak of kind of tragedies of some of your friends and colleagues as you go by. some to alcoholism or take their own lives. do you feel, i don't know if it's survivors guilt or what could i have done, how is it possible that these people made these choices? >> i think, you know, spoiler

alert, we all die. and when you get to my age, a lot of people -- i probably know more people who are dead than there are alive. and some just -- i mean, in the last few years, mike nichols and carrie fisher. you know, lots of really funny people whom i relied on in my life just suddenly went and left. >> has your relationship with the monte python gang changed over time? now that you see them with the benefit of hindsight and age and what's worked and whoo hasn't and how their life has changed? >> sure. you are all going through the same process. you know, it's the raft of the medusa. we are colliding off the life raft and the sharks are waiting. python is fun to be with. they are all great fun. when we are together it's still just as funny. it's really funny. and i like that.

so we do get together now and again. now we have much more time for each other. >> yeah? >> yeah, much more. we don't have to do anything together. i mean, we did '02 say good-bye, that was 2014. now it's beyond the possibility of doing anything. >> have you all gotten funnier? >> i think a little bit, yeah. i think we are still very funny. certainly with each other. i think so, yes. but i think we always were. it was a very strange group. it was self-selected. it was odd, and it worked, so we just kept it going. >> you know, there is a section near the end of the book. it says laughter is still the best revenge. one day the sun will day, the galaxy will die, one day the entire universe will die. so what have i learned over my long and weird life? firstly, that there are two kinds of people and i don't much care for either of them. when faced with a difficult choice, either way so best. thirdly, always leave a party

what people begin to play the bong owes. >> and a tip. >> any other advice? >> no, i think that covers my advice. >> thanks so much. >> my pleasure. >> eric idle, a long and weird life perhaps, but what a great and funny legacy. and now for something completely different. tomorrow i'll talk to a historian about his new book presidents of war. an alarming account of how some american presidents pushed americans into costly wars to serve their own political ends. for now, that is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching "amanpour" and company. join us again tomorrow.

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