captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, turkey's president accaudi arabia of a savage, premeditated murder of a journalist, as the saudi crown prince allegedly behind the plot gets a standings ovation from biness leaders. then, immigratiopolitics in the spotlight as a migrant caravan from central america makes its way to the united states. and, a colorado program that's offering college credit to veterans for knowledge gained during their military service. >> this is the right thing to do for servicemembers and veterans. it makes them feel as if their training and service to this country not only mattered on the bigger sense but in the particular level that they're now getting civilian credit for what they've already demonstrated. >> woodruff: all that and more

on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> kevin. >> kevin! >> kevin. >> advice for life. life well-planned. learmore at raymondjames.com >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: >> this program was possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

>> woodruff: saudi arabia faces new demands tonight to tell all it knows about the killing of jamal khoshiggi. the demands come from turkey, and they add to the crisis engulfing the saudi kingdom and its governmentig foren affairs correspondent nick schifrin begins our coverage. >> schifrin: in front of a packed parliament in ankara, turkey's president today provided the highest level accusation saudi arabia premeditated the killing of a critic. >> ( traninated ): the rmation and evidence that has been uncovered thus far leal to the cion that jamal khashoggi was the victim of a gruesome murder. concealing such an atrocity would hurt the collective conscience of humanity.

in the oval office, president trump echoed that accusation, saying the saudis were trying to cover up crimes. >> it was consider rid out poorly, and the cover-up was one ofihe worst in thetory of cover-ups. and where it should have stopped is at the deal point, when they thought about it, because whoever thought of that ide think is in big trouble. >> reporter: combined the two presidents put extraordinary pressure on saudi arabia, and the turks are providing most of the details. for weeks turkish officials have leaked cctv videos and details of what they have labeled a saudi hit squad. erdogan confirmed three teams' movements from the airportto a hotel, and to the consulate where jamal khashoggi was killed. he also provided small new details: he said one of the teams did reconnaissance in a local forest, presumably to scope where to put the body. he said another team removed the consulate's cctv cameras' hard drive. he asked, on whose odid the team act? and he rejected saudi arabia'sio explanthat "rogue officers" acted alone. >> ( translated blaming this on some security and intelligence officers will

satisfy neither us nor the international community. they detained a security official and others. today mike pompeo said theke.s. would rehe visas and look into sanctioning senior saudi officials. >> we have identified atst some of the individuals responsible, including those in the intelligence service trntioh royal court,e foreign ministry and other saudi ect tories who we susp have been involved in mr. khashoggi's death. >> reporter: there were no public accusations today against crown prince mohammad bin salman. a turkish official close to erdogan tells pbs newshour he wants to weaken mohammad bin salman and he was ying to weaken mohammad bin salm from the king.

>> ( translated ): i do t doubt the sincerity of the custodian of the two mosques, king salman bin abdul aziz. >> schifrin: but today king salman appeared with m.b.s. in a show of solidarity. they met jamal kfashoggi's ly. at one point the king points, roeming to deliver a message. in the bacd, a guard has his hand on his gun. at another point, m.b.s. meets with khashoggi's son name. later, m.b.s. made a surpre appearance at what as supposed to be his premiere international event. and on stage, oil minister khalid al-falih admitted that ing is rotten in the sta of saudi arabia. >> these are difficult days for us in the kingdom of saudi arabia. sis of going through a c sort resulting from the very regrettable and abt incident that took place in rkey. nobody in the kingdom can justify it or explain it. >> schifrin:ut m.b.s. has sidelined all public ccism while claiming to change society. he has allowed women to drive,

is proposing to wean the economy off of oil. eiand al-falih hinted thater m.b.s., nor the direction he's set for the kingdom, is changing anytime on. >> the kingdom is in the midst of a historic transformation of unprecedented proporons, and the train has moved and it hasve deliberately towards a transformation journey that will not be spped. >> schifrin: but the international criticism is higher than at any point since 9/11, and being led by erdogan, whose aides hinted he has more evidence, he could releaset any point. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin. >> woodruff: nick will be back with analysis of today's developments, after the news summary. and, in the day's other news, wall street was whipsawed by worries over china, trade and corporate earnings. the dow jones industrial average shed nearly 126 points to close at 25,191, after being down

nearly 550 points this morning. the nasdaq fell 31 points, andpe the s&p 500 sl15. hurricane "willa" is pushing its way on to mexico's pacific coast tonight.st ned winds dropped to 120 miles an hour. but, fecasters said the wind, waves and rain could do serious damage near mazatlan, a popular tourist resort. the storm is nowhere near a migrant caravan in southern xico. migrant sailings from africa to eupe have dropped this yea rebut crossings to spain a up sharply. the u.n.'s migration agency says more than 45,000 people have reached spain from africa, equal to the previous three years combined. the total for all of europe is about 95,000, down sharply from this time last year. in moscow, u.s. national security adviser john bolton today rebuffed russian efforts

to salvage a 1987 nuclear arms treaty. he said there's no doubt russia violated the terms, despite kremlin denials, but he gave no date for formally withdrawing. bolton spoke after meeting with russian president vladimir putin. he said he also told putin that meddling in u.s. elections is counterproductive. >> what the meddling did create pas distrust and amosity within the u.s. anicularly made it almost impossible for two years for the u.s. russia to make diplomatic progress. so that's a huge loss for both countries but particularly to russia. so it's a lesson i think: don'tm mess witican elections. >> woodruff: later, president trump said hwill probably meet with putin next month in paris, at eve world war one, 100 years ago. backn this country, federal investigators are looking into po apparent bomb found in a

mailbox at the cd of liberal billionaire george soros. the explosive package turned up monday at the compound near bedford, new york, but it moved away and then, safely detonated. soros has often been a target of far-right conspiracy theoris. commerce secretary wilbur ross will not have to answer questions about including a citizenship question on the 2020 census. the u.s. supreme court, on monday, blocked attempts by a zen states and cities to depose ross. their lawsuit says adding the citizenship question will discourage immigrants from taking part, and hurt states that tend to vote democratic. the firs court, sandra day o'connor, has announced she has dement, and is withdrawing from public life. in a letter to the court, the retired justice says, "some time

ago, doctors diagnos the beginning stages of dementia, ably alzheimer's disease o'connor stopped speaking publicly more than two years ago. she is 88 years old. some 15,000 medical workers in california began a thr-day strike today. they're demanding better pay and job security at five unirsity of california medical centers. the strike forced thousands of surgeries and outpatient appointments to be rescheduled. and, archaeologists working in the black sea say they have found the worls oldest intact shipwreck-- more than 2,400 years old. the anglo-bulgarian research team say it's a greek g vessel. they say the ship's design had been seen only in murals and books, until now. >> we're talking entirely preserved ships from keel to gunnel. we're talking about still preserved ropes, shipwrecks that literally look as if they had sunk yesterday.

>> woodruff: the wreck was found more than a mile deep, in oxygen-free conditions that prevented rot. still to come on the newshour: pressure mounts on saudi arabia over the death of jamal khashoggi. the migrant caravan moves steadily north through mexico. we discuss the president's relationship with the truth ahead of the midterm elections, and much more. >> woodruff: we return to the killing of a saudi arabian journalist in istanbul. as we reported, turkish president erdogan call for those responsible for the murder to be put on trial in his country. nick schifriis back. >> schifrin: president trump and secretary of state mike

pompeo both expre sed displeasth saudi arabia. that came after turkey's president said saudi arabiaed present tahashoggi's death. to talk about that we turn to eric edleman, u.s. ambassador to turkey during the george w. bush administration. he's also held senior posts at the defense department, and on the white house staff. and henri barkey served in the state departme's policy planning office during the clinton administration. he is now a professor of international relations at lehigh uversity. after the attempted coup in turkey in 2016, there were a number of false reports in wturkish newspapers that one of the coup plotters. welcome to you both. ambassador edleman, let me start with you. president trump called this a cover-up today. secretary of state mike pompeo talked about visa revocations and also plans for sanctions. is the response from the u.s. today appropriate giventhhe nature ocrime and the seriousness of this crisis? is well, nick, i think it appropriate. i think the administration at the outset was trying to put the best possible face on this because of the importance it attacheso the u.s.-saudi

relationship, but i think they bcognize now that there is a head of steilding up on the hill. there are a lot of people who have supported the kingdom saudi arabia and its relationship with the united states in the past, like lindsey graham, who are quite concerned about this, and i think the administration is trying to get ahead of what will undoubtedly be aimportant push r sanctions. i'm not sure they're going to be able to get ahead of tha because as your piece noted, auis is major crisis in the u.s. relationship, certainly the biggest one since 9/11. if evidence is found tat actually links mohammad bin lingan directly to the kil of jamal khashoggi, this will become an existential crisis for this relationship. >> schifn: henrikey, a lot of this has been pushed by turkish president nddogan a anonymous leaks by turkish officials. we sawturkish president erdogan's speech today. is he motivated by jamal khashosi's death, or ie also motivated by his presence and his place in thregion? >> well, he has two major aims

here. there has always been a competition between saudi arabin turkey for leadership in the region, but what mr. alerdogan wants at this stage is to re able to usn the pressure he can muste to get to essentially dislodge mohammad bin salmanus be he sees m.b.s. as being very anti-turkish,and he cease m.b.s. as a block against turkish ambitions in the region. but beyond that, what he's also trying to do is to use the gift essentiay the saudis gave him to improve turkey's very, very tarnished repteation ationally. i mean, after all let's not forget that this is the country that is the largest jailer of journalists.e they only recntly releasinged pastor brunson after two years in jail. there are three american stateme depa employees in jail in turkey. so erdogan is trying the change

the conversation and p pressure on the saudis by saying that he wants the perpetrators to be judged in turkey. he's putting measure pressure on the saudis and keeping the conversation going.n: >> schifric edleman, to put more pressure on the saudis is one thing, or to dislodge, as wekeeard henri bsay, to dislodge m.b.s. is that really possible? >> it's hard to tell becawhuse goes on inside the house of saud is very opaque i think to outsiders. there certainly have been historical examples in the pas of not just crown princes but kings being replaced, so that's not unprecedented. what is unprecedented has been the accumulation o power that mohammad bin salman has had in his hands over the last year and a half. whether that means he's made a lot of enemies who now may find this an opportune time to act, or whether he still has overwhelming control, i think what you saw today, as your piece showed, was efforts to at

least put on a face of unity. whether that will continue to be the case i think is anybody's guess at this point. >> schifrin: henri barkey, most of the information we have that's at least public has co from erdogan today and also non-prows -- anonymous leaks in the turkish bel how believable are some of these leaks, and what's motivating this constant purpose through the media that officials around erdogan have been doing? >> well, this is a very good question. i mean, there have been leaks now for two weeks almost, and those leakys included very, v assorted details, including torture. there was a suggestion that thy had video and audio, and yet y . erdogan did not mention these things to his speech. so far the turks have not produced any of this evidence. i suspect there is no sucdio or certainly not video. it's not that easy to bug an

embassy, and the ambassador will tell you probably from his own experience that they do sweep embassies fairly often, but the interesting thing about thse leaks is that we sathe western press essentially buy all these leaks as if they were the truth. i mean, body ever produced any evidence that his fingers were cut, and yet every single newspaper repeated that and you ite it everywhere as if a fact. but this has been very, very effective. it has made the turks look like a serious source and allow them to determine the agenda. >> schifrin: it has been very effective, eric edleman, on putting pressure on saudi arabia and personally on putting pressure on mohammad bin salman. the white house's priorities for the region largely go through saudi arabia. quickly in the time we haftve how dependent is the u.s. on m.b.s. himself versus an

historic dependence and alliance with saudi arabia? >> i think, nick, you put ur finger on what i think is the biggest problem we face right big, which is we have interests in saudi arabia, have had for a long time.e there energy interests. there are geopolitical interests. it's impossible to have a containment strate, for instance, in iran without saudi arabia playing some role in itt though the administration is elevated the relationship with saudi arabia since it came in, it has made it a relationship betwee families, between jared miskin and mohammad bin salman, between the el saud and trump families. we need to have a relationship that is institutionalized and based on the state institutions, and i think what youe're seing with the role secretary pompeo is playing, that gina haspel is playing in her trip to turkey, nte c.i.a. director, is to try to get this backo an institutional relationship rather tn family-to-family relationship. >> schifrin: ambassador eric

edleman, professor henri barkey, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: they are on a long and difficult trek: thousands of central american migrants, making their way, as a group, to the united states. the caravan, pausing for rest hatoday in huixtla, mexico suddenly become the subject of heated political rhetoric here but first: a look at who's traveling in the caravan, and the "why," from amna nawaz. >> nawaz: in the southern mexican city of tapachula, more than 7,000 migrants, mostly honduran, woke this morning to continue the journey north. he>> ( translated ):we heard the caravan was coming we joined. so this is an opportunity toe improv family's lifeer >> nawaz: rereporter delphine schrank is traveling with the group, and describes it as less of a caravan, and more of an exodus. >> it's a real mixture.

unthe majority are fairly but it's a complete mixture of en, lots of children, people of various ages. >> nawaz: caravans like this have been organized fo than a decade-- a group migration built on the principle of safety in numbers and helped along the way by non-profits like "pueb sin fronteras." earlier this spring, a smaller caravan from southern mexico peaked around 1500 memrs. schrank says this group came together much more spontaneously, and that the migrants she's tald to are more concerned with what they're leaving, than where they end u >> over and over i've heard from dozens of migrants who say the same thing: that no matter how cruel or how difficult the welcome is athe united states border, the overwhelming need they feel to flee a toxic mixture of violence, corruption, unemployment, political failure

as they see it in honduras, really is what weighs most upon treir minds. >> nawaz: presidenp's escalating rhetoric, like at this texas rally last night, has brought this year's caravans to the forefr it of tigration debate, two weeks ahead of midterm >> you know what's happening right now, as a large group of people, they call it a caravan. i think the democrats had something to do with it and now they're saying i think we made i biake because people are seeing how bad it is. >> nawaz: meanwhile, the migrants continue their journey, mostly on foot, now over 1,000 miles from the nearest u.s. border crossing. picking it up from there, to discuss some of the rhetoric and ngme of the policy surroun all of this is alan gomez. he's an immigration reporter for "usa tod." alan gomez, welcome back to the newshour. we heard the president there in texas last night, but i want to ask you about something he said earlier today in the ovalfi . he was asked about a couple

allegations he made about the caravan. he has said the are members of the gang ms-1d as he put it, middle easterners traveling in the caravan. here's what the president said earlr today. >> certainly we have people coming up through the southern border from the middle east and other places that are not appropriate for our country, and i'm not letting them inch they're not coming in. we're going to do whatever we nove to. they'rcoming in. >> nawaz: alan gomez, what do you make a president is alleging there? ts there any validity to tha claim in. >> not that his administration can point to as of yet. we've been asng the department of homeland security ever since he started making those claims in a series of tweets where the proof was that there were members of gangs, criminals, as he refers to them generally as middle easterners in the group, and they haven't been able to pointo any proof that anybody exists. instead they're faing back on

data of the number of criminals, gang me bers, andpeople from "special interest" countries wht have been caugying to cross the border illegally over the past year. when he put those numbers into ntext, it shows that 5% of people caught along the borderha some kind of criminal background. about 0.3% are gang members, and about 0.8% come from special inrest countries that include some middle eastern countries some they're saying the numbers indicate that there has to be in that group, and vice president pence made that same claim that you look at the size of this, there just has to be some of those folks in there. in the last hou we've heard from the department of homeland security that they are coirming that there are se criminals and some middle easterners in there. we followed up with them btu haven't heard anything back. >> nawaz: you know the president's cus on this specific caravan is elevated substantially. there's been caravans in the past, one earlier this year. you know, in the entire

immigration landscape, which you cover so deeply, why has this one event caught the president's attention so strony? >> timing. we're just about two weeks awaye from the ion, and basically this falls into his rhetoric so perfectly. he's basically taken a page out of his 2016 presidential campaign and just riling up on immiation right now. is is an issue that the 2016 election proved is one that will rile up his base, is one that epeals to them, is on that interests them, is one that scares them. and so the timing of this, th idea that for the next two weeks, because this caravan is a slowh, they're walking, they're still well over 1,000 miles away from the border, the fact that these images will be aired on tv repeatedly for these nextwo weeks is perfect for him, because it shows this idea of an invasion as he likes theca it. i've been watching congressional icbates around the country and house dis and states like idaho and iowa and minnesota an

pittsburgh in the northeast, you hear this honduracaravan coming up repeatedly because it's something that republicans realize is something that can energi their base. >> nawaz: alan gomez of "usa today" who covers immigration, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you very much for your time. >> woodruff: president trump's comments about that immigrant caravan during a rally last night in houston were seized upon by fact-checkers, including the "toronto star."ke they've tr2,915 false things the president has said since taking office almost two years ago. that's more than four false claims a day, on average. daniel dale is the washington bureau chief of the "toronto star" and joins me now. thank yaw >>r being here. hank you. >> woodruff: daniel dale,

you've coffered the white house closely. i know there's been tention id to what the president says, remarks that cannot be born out by facts since he took office, but you have observed this is more of this taking place now. we've quantified it. so in 2017 he averaged 2.9 false claims per day. as of now it's 4.5 false claims per day some it' fmore thve per day in 2018. and it's escalated even further as wegotten closer to the mid-terms some every successive junth, junely, august, and september set a new record for the president's false claims. so over timhe's getting more dishonest. >> woodrufna started out her interview just now asking about the president's conntion that there are people of middle eastern descet in tharavan. we heard reporter alan gomez say there is no evidence of, that but there are othmments the president has made about immigration. utr example, he's talked abo democrats paying to get that migrant caravan started,

democrats in the united states. he's made this statement. is there any evidence of this? >> no. and i'm comfortable calling that a lie. lidity.s simply no there is no basis for that whatsoever. >> woodruff: i should say we at the newshour talk about inaccurate statements, false statements, you're comfortable using the word "l why? >> because i think that's the only accurate word for some of thclaims he makes. i also sometimes describe his claims as false laim, sometimes you don't know if he's confused, if he's made an innocent error, but in other cases it's clear that he's simply -- for example, at one point he claimed the hea of the bouts called him and claimed his speech to the boy scouts was the best speech ever given. the boy scouts told me no one ever spoke to him, no one ever called him, and no one ever said that.la so in our rer lives, i think the word we could use is "lie so i think we as journalists should use it in our article, as well.oo >>uff: another couple comments the president has made about immigration, he spoke last

night again, he said illegal immigrants in california are voting in the upcoming mid-term election in california. is there evidence that this is going on in early voting in california? >> no, there is no evidence for. this thiis a claim that the president has made about elections in general, and it's somethwng he said since his election that despite what everyone says, what every expert says, illegal immigrants are isting on mass. this in my view a lie. there is no evidence for it whatsoever. >> woodrf: another comment the president made at a rally in nevada on saturday, he spoke about what termed "anti-immigration riots" happening in california. i want to play for the audience we what he sid on saturday. >> i don't think we like sancary cities up here. crowd: no! >> by the way, a lot ofople

in california don't like them either. they're rioting no. there's a big turn being made. a lot of these sanctuary cities you've been hearing in california and other places, but california, they want to get out.th 're demanding they be released from sanctuary cities. >> woodruff:ut as far as we know, daniel dale, there is no evidence of this, is that right? >> there is not. is one to me was especially strange, because he is talking about people on his own side of the issue. 's not saying left-wingers are rye -- rioting, people like him who oppose sanctuary cities are rioting. they are not. i spoke to a republican mayor of sanctuary city in califrnia. his argument is that the president was not speaking d terally. he s rioting he meant simple opposition, but i don't think that's what the president was conveying. >> woodruff: you cover the white house very closely. you talk to ople in the ministration. you get a sense that there's a plan behind this, a strategy of some sort when the president makes these kinds of statementst >> well, nk he knows they

will be covered often quite uncritically, that he can get headlines, and not onlya right-wing met many mainstream media, simply repeating the assertion. and whether or not it is true, ov allows him to drive the subject of theage as we approach the mid-term, so even if we're debunking on television avan,laims about the car we're probably also showing images of people in the caravanr not talking about healthcare, the mueller investigation, anything else that the president doesn't want us to talk about. we're on immthigration. 's his subject. >> woodruff: so you're saying this is what the president wants. he wants tale press to be tng about this and examining these claims.>> eah. i think it's a mix of him knowing that many people won't llamine it that. many people believe him because they don't trust the mainstream media ande also if are examining it, then he still gets coverage on the subject that he desires. i should say, the toronto star does keep this -- keeps track, has been for many months keeping

track of the president's statements. er newsre o organizations doing that. did you have any idea when you were assigned to cover the trump white house that you would be doing something like this? >> new york so i tharted in september 2016, two months before to election, because he s just being so dishonest then, as well, that i thought there needs to be a way to focus attention on this separatfrom the day-to-day news coverage that i was doing. and then like many people, i erroneously thought that hillary clinton would win the election and i would be frthed from is task. of course, the president surprised many of us and won. i thought his dishonesty continues to be a central feature of his rhetoric and so therefore i have to continue as long as he's in office.>> oodruff: daniel dale, who is the washington bureau chief of the "toronto star." thank you hary much. >> you. >> woodruff: and the state of american society inour political divide is the subject of the state of our political discourse is the sboject of a ne by republican senator ben sasse of nebraska. it's called "them: why we hate

each other and h to heal." we spoke this evening and i began by asking about the increasing number of false statements recently made by the president. >> i think political tribalism is rampant in our times because theris this collapse of local tribes, good tribes, natural s some, traditional tri more and more people are processing their politics, not 'rprimarily as what thfor, but as a form of anti-tribe. what are we against, soi thi you do see a willingness among the american public to accept more falsehoods th would have seemed normal at most moments in u.s. history past, because people a hear them as kind of rhetoric that is mostly a framing of the other side d the things that we're against. e need a politics that isn't chiefly that, thn't chiefly against. we need a lot more we and a lot. less t >> woodruff: how do you hold the president accountable, neough? you'ref, what, 50-some republican senators.

how do you, when there are clearly statements that he's making that can't be born out by facts, what do you do about it? >> i don't have a great answer for this because i don't think there is a clear short-term answer, but i try to talk with the president, he and i wrestle on a number of isses, for instance on trade, we see the world's very differently and ath number of thgs he says sorted of implies we're going to bring back manuf acturijobs at a scale that was common in the 1950s. that's not going to happen, and the decline of industrial jobst isiefly because of trade. i think i'm the most pro free trade senator in the states senate, but most of the disruption in thworkforce, for instance, is because of automation. a lot of times the president fres it as if there is somebody in another country taking your job. so he and i wrestle about isthoe es in private, and i talk about a good with it of it in public, as well. >> woodruff: i want to talk more broadly about the book. the title is "them: why we hate each other and how to heal." your theme is about how lated americans are, how lonely americans are, how divided we

are. and it's a theme that we've been hearing about for a couple decades as sociologist roberttn said. has it gotten worse? if so, why? >> i think it has gotten worse. you're great t flag robert putnam. he had this thesis in the late 1990s called "bowling alone," which was the decline of eeighbourly america, where he found that more cans were bowling than ever before and yet bowling league membership was at an al-time low. it's not a phenomenon unique to bowling. it's t case in sector after sector and community after community in the country. since putnam wrote that in t late 1990s and the year 2000, it's a digital revolution that's undermining place and the kinds of tribe of nuclear family, deep friendship, shared vocation and meaningful work togewith our neighbors. local worshipping communities and as all of those tribes that sort of "we" activities that we did together, as they decline,la as becomes less

significant, politics rushes in to fill that vacuum, bt politics is regularly anti-tribe, not protribe. >> woodruff: in connection with that you write about how loyal people are particularly to their tribe to, their politiche party tooint of being basically unwilling to listen to any other points of view. do you see a way out of this? >> well, i think there are a bunch of constructive things we have to do to rebuild habits of rootedness and place and thick community despite the fact that our technology whispers to us you can be rootless. happiness literature tells us what makes us happy. it is family, frirntion shared location and local won schiffing communities. we have to figure out how to build those habits of rootedneso for aless age. we have to figure out when you unplug from technology, how dor you host yighbors. to your point, we've had a tripling in the last 25 years of the sharof americans that regard the other political party than the one they're in as not just naive or confused but evil, from 14% to 41% of the

electorate in the las >> woodruff: so come back to president trump, because some of his rhetoric, some of his language is i think everybody agrees is contributing to a division. now a lot of people think there are many other contributor, as well. how do you as a sitting republican senator push back? i know you vote with the president something like 87% of the time. what responsibility do you have do you think? >> so one of the respsibilities of alllected officials and of the president in the congress but the president of the unitel,states, as ws not just to have policy priorities, but to have a set of issues that are overarching. what does the first amendment mean, why do we have aon constitu system of limited government. and so one of my concerns about sn'tpresident is that he doe tend to any of that next generation civics instruction. what is america going to have to wrestle th ten and 25 years from now when we need a shared sense of we for the cyber doctrine that we need build, for instance. on legislation, i'm happy that

i've been a conservative since long before donald trump and i'll still be a conservative after the president is out soof office'm glad he's come to adopt my policy positions on a number of legislative matters, but the more fundamental point is the overarching shifts what we the american people believe. >> woodruff: you also like about the lack of respect forim thrtant roam that government can play. there is just so mucalh nameng and mean spiritedness about our political system that government has become basically a whipping boy. does it matter that it's turd out that way? >> it does. i think the decline of trust we see in all of our public institution is these -reinforcing and a vicious cycle. but even more, it becomes a national security crisis whenu ve russia today and china tomorrow planning cyber attacks agait the u.s. to exploit our own intensive care internal div. i spend a lot of time on intelligence divisions. when your with the leadership of e u.s. intelligence community, they talk about a perfect storm for future fake attacks against

fake audio and fake video that will be used to reinforce the biases that we americans have againseach other, and one of the core reasons they think we have so much current exposureer is because russia and chna know the scabs they need to pick at. there are many americans who would rather be divided from other americans than be united with other americans against future chinese and cuen russian cyber attacks. >> woodruff: bottom line, should americans come away from this depressed, discouraged about the futur >> i want... >> woodruff: or hopeful? >> both. want us to be sober and realistic about what we need to rebuild. we're going through a digital revolution, which is akin to,ization and industrialization. there was also a crisis of loneliness in th time which created prohibition as a response. we'll have the third year of declining life expectancy in thb u.cause of deaths of despair. that mostly can't be fixed by government, but we, tple, still have to do that. there's a lot we can rebuild in

our neighborhoods and in our new healthier tech habits for this new digital age. >> woodruff: one blueprint re the book is "them: why we hate each other and how to heal." senator ben sasse of nebraska, thank you very much. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: now to the latest battle oveobamacare, or the federal healthcare law formally called the affordable care act. the trump administration announced yesterday it will grant new waivers to states to promote the sale of cheaper and skimpier health insurance plans. but some of these do not have to cover pre-existing conditions and, as william brangham tells us, that could play right into a major election fight over that issue. >> brangham: yesterday the trumi stration gave states new flexibility in designing healtht

plans ould be cheaper and come with fewer required benefits. ipr example, the plans don't have to cover preson drugs or mental health or maternity care-- all things that the edaffordable care act requ and these plans could also deny coverage to people we- existing conditions, as long as consumers still had access to another, more comphensive plan that guarantees that coverage. these sound like small changes, but they're not. and they will take effect in 2020. president trump and many republicans contend these options are exactly what some consumers want. but this move comes as support for parts of obamacare are growing. and at least one recent poll found a majority of voters say health care is "very important" in making their decisionthis november. margot sanger-katz covers healthcare for the "new york times" and joins me now. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. >> brangham: so help us figure

out what this means. >> this was always. there states can do a totally. different syst they have to adhere to certain guardrails to make sure they're not fking coverage awm people. the trump administration put out new rules for that process, where they base i cli said, we're going to be much more open minded about letting states throw out all the obamacare rules and come up witirh thewn way of managing their insurance marketplaces, so this could include lowing plans that cover fewer benefits, maybe if they don't cover prescription drugs or mental healthcare, also including plans that maybe are not availablpeople with preexisting conditions or not available to them at the same ice as for other customers. and all kinds of other changes, you know, maybe who gets te subsidy for what could change. we don't know what states are going to do, but states are now welcome the bring theseal propforward and the trump administration has said they are open to approving them. >> brangham: is the concern that federal subsidies could be seen as another encoagement for people to buy these plans, so people might be getting a

an that they thk covers them but when a crisis hits they don't have coverage. >> i think there are two concerns. one is the fact that people may buy a plan and they're healthy and they don't underriand the fine and they don't understand the fine print and their kid gets an illness or they develop cancer or a drug addiction and suddenly when they realize they ned those benefits they're not there. so there is that concern that these plans that cover fewegsr ththat have more exclusions could have holes for individual consumers i and ththink there is a broader concern, which is that kind of cheaper plan that covers less, that might be good for someone who is healthy and never has any health conditions and was never going to use theirn healthurance anyway, but for someone who has a preexisting illness, they are never going to buy that plan, it's not going to be available for them. it will not cover the benef ns thd, so it sets up these two side-by-side markets where all of the peopleith preexisting conditions buy the sort of comprehensive obamacare plan, and a lot of healthier people are willing to roll the dice on these cheaaper plans, nd what can happen is that because

the way insurance works is we're sort of all pooling our premiums togeer to cover our collective health bills, you have one pool over here where all the sick onpeople are and anotherover here where w all the healthy people, the price for buyingr insurance ck people could get really, really high and that could make it unaffordable r a lot of people who really need insurance the most. >> brangham: there are people all over the country struggling to pay their bills. my colleagues met a youngoman in idaho who can't afford her healthcare. she's desperate. she sounds like oue be an ideal customer for a cheaper, maybe skimpi plan. i absolutely would try again for health insurance, and actually every year when te enroll. comes up, i try hoping for a miracle that there's going to be a plan i can afford. i have never given up.tr every year, and then every year it hasn't worked out, so absolutely i would look at it agn, and if there are plans out as early as next week, i'll look into it next wee >> brangham: this is a real issue for a lot of people.

>> i talk to these people all the time. it is sure that obamacare madehe th insurance more accessible for low and middle-income people, but for a loleof pe make what we would be considered to be middlelass income, these insurance premiums can be expensive and unaffordable, and we know those people have been dropping out of e market and they're going without anything. so i think that policy-makers in the trump administration are trying to be ssitive to this population and say, okay, maybe these skimpier pleans arn't quite as good, don't have all the same consumer protections and benefits an obaacare plan, but if people are choosing between this and nothing, isn't it better to give them something skimpier and let them decide what's the right plan for them? consumer advocates are very concerneabout people sort of falling through the cracks and again about this setting mentation of the market. but i think that, you know, this person in idaho is really speaking to a real problem that we see in thuntry, because health insurance is just so expensive. it's out of reachr a lot of people. >> schifrin: butrangham: on a separa related issue, the issue of

preexisting conditions hasp become a big itical issue. i want to show you two excerpts of ads running in missouri. claire mchas kill and her opponent, josh hawley. >> two years ago i beat breast causer, like thods over women in missouri, i don't talk about it much, but those who face cancer and many other illnesss have a preexting condition when it comes to the health coverage. usual josh holly filed a lawsuit letting insurance companies deny coverage for those wih preexisting conditions. that's just wrong. >> earlier this year we learned our oldest ha rare chronic disease, a preexisting condition. we know what that's like. i'm josh hawley. i support fonsingance to cover all preexisting conditions. and claire mccaskill knows this. >> brangham: how did preexisting conditions become such a big issue in the mid-term elections? >> i thinkhe real answer is obamacare repeal. as you may recall, the last tw

political cycles, republicans have run on this message they want to repail and reace obamacare. >> brangham: which would get rid of coverage. >> it would,that because important part of obamacare. it's not the only way to take 'sre of these people, but it the way we do it now in our law. when republicans got serious about repealing affordable care aclast year, i think that suddenly this law that had been very controversial and had been pretty unpopular, people started to suddenly look at it differently. we saw in the public opinion lls for the first time that more people supported the thfordable care act than wanted it repealed, an's a shift that has persisted. we saw a lot of engbyagemen kind of democratic activists, by disease advocacy group, people lobbying on the hill, organaning at homeit's become this really central issue for democrats to say, you know, we passed the affordable care act, we're suddenly proud of it, and we are going to protect people with preexisting conditions. you look around the country, this is themb -one issue for democrats. there are more ads on healthcare than any other subject polling has consistently shown

otatheealthcare is if n most important issue the second most important issue to voters in battleground states and all around the country, and i think republicans now ar kind of flounderin what their answer is going to be this aroblem. we sot of ads and statements from republican candidates like josh hawley's ad where republican candidates, even those who have voted for obamacare repeal proposal on the hill or who like josh hawley are part of a lawsuit that would seek to repeal the affordable care act through the courts, they are saying, no, no, no, i'm still committed to pexisting conditions. i think it's hard to believe what they're saying, even though i think there are possible ways that they could achieve that, because they have not been very specific about how they would do be, and we have them on the record ag opposed to the way the democrats have achieved it. >> all right. >> brangham: margot, thank you >> thanks again.

>> woodruff: now, how one state awards college credit for military experience. it's a way of both giving value for skills already developed in the field and ensuring military students are enticedt a de gree. hari sreenivasan has the story for our ongoing series, "rethinking college", and our feature for this week's, "making the grade." >> headquarters a to veadquarters b, request a radio check, or. >> sreenivasan: after four years munication specialist in the army, kierra howard has decided she wants to go to college. >> i'm in the army, at i also wantormal education, too. >> sreenivasan: howard believes a degree can help advance her litary career. >> i decided to take baby steps, and get my associates, and then move onto bachelors. >> sreenivasan: when she looked around to find a college last spring, she got lucky. based at fort caon in colorado springs, howard enrolled at nearby pikes peak community

college. the campus is surrounded by military bases. academic advisors here look for ways to translate military service to academic credits. paul dececco is the director of military and veterans programs at pikes peak. so how do you evaluate how to get credit for those life experiences that they've had? >> the military issues a joint services transcript. and on there, it lists out the education courses that a service member attended, and also what we call their military occupational specialty. what they did in the military, we're able to give them credit for their military experiences, or their military education, we try and do that. >> sreenivasan: pikes peak awarded kierra howard 20 credits, moving her way ahead in her pursuit of a degree.ba yocally got enough credits to transfer that it shortened ae of your education here? >> yes. >> sreenivasan: this year,eg coloradolators embraced pikes peak's model by passing

legislation to help all colorado military and veteran students. tulorado's new law says any state funded inson has to be able to evaluate the knowledge or skills that a student might have picked up in e military. and if that student can earn credit for it, those credits have to be transferae e to every ststitution. david ortiz is a veteran advocate whoelped craft the legislation. >> this is the right thing to do ar servicemembers and veterans. it makes them feif their training and service to this country not only mattered on the bigger senseut in the particular level that they're now getting civilian credit for what they've already demonstrated. >> sreenivasan: and, ortiz says, it is a policy that works. >> there's plenty of research that backs up that veterans that are awarded meaningful credit towards a degree are 33% more likely to take their degree to graduation, to fruition. and then be set up for success for a job in the civilian world. >> sreenivasan: a former army pilo ortiz was medically retired in 2012, after his helicopter crashed in afghanistan. he says a servicemember's

experiences are creditworthy. >> you go from being responsible for multi-million dollares equipment, beiponsible for a dozen men and women, accomplishing a mission, high- intensity with quick timelinesco ng up, where lives are on the line. there's maturity and life erperience that comes with it, but the's also professional experience that's already been gained. >> sreenivasan: but e transition from intense military experience can sometimes keep veterans from returning to the classroom, especially if they feel they are starting from scratch. >> they're walking i the feeling of i've had all of these experiences, both good and bad, i've had these life experiences, and now i get to sitglish 121, english composition, or basic englh class, with a bunch of folks who just got out of high school. so, it becom a challenge. >> sreenivasan: david ortiz says awarding credits helps address that imbalance. >> those that have served for five, 10, 20 years, some working in intelligence, some working in communications, don't stt at the same footing as your 18- inyear-old graduathigh school. >> sreenivasan: ty upshaw

retired fr the army after 21 years. ce says the 15 credits he ed for his military experience was a great motivator. >> once i found out that i was able to receive credit for the atings i'd done in the military, thas a great boost in morale. it made me feel like everything i had done was a success. >> sreenivasan: upshaw is pursuing a bachelor's degree in business at the university of ings. he in colorado s was able to transfer skills learned from his position in the army's human resources department to necessary courses for business school. >> i was deployed to iraq, kuwait, and afghanistan. as a human resource specialist, sotimes we were in charge of i received college credit for uter information science course, group communication, organizational communication, public speaking. >> sreenivasan: but will awarding course credit for military experience water down ?he integrity of a college degree is military experience really comparable to college experience? n >> we're here to give gifts. >> sreenivasan: colorado state senator owen hill, one of the bill's sponss, says colleges ll need to do rigorous assessments. >> it shouldn't just be cartebl che there needs to be a

logienl, well documted, clear match. we want to make sure that we are giving credit for real work th has been don if you give someone credit and they don't really know it, then 're setting them up for failure. >> sreenivasan: paul dececco says the law has opened up a needed conversation betwn the state's two year and four year colleges. what the law did, is it brought everyone to the table, so we could talk as equal partners. whereas before, i don't know that there was motivation from the other major universities within colorado to do that. why do i want a community college telling me what i should, or shouldn't accept? the law told every university and college within colorado that they must have this process. >> sreenivasan: for his part, ty upshaw has plans for how he'll use his degree in business. >> i'm going back to s because i want to open a jazz club. gell be able to fine tune my business plan, and market, for the people we want to attract into our jazz club. >> sreenivasan: kierra howard says she plans to stay in the

army. >> getting a degree will help me with a promotion in the army. i just want to take courses and learn so i can be a better soldier.an >> sreenivascolorado joins 23 other states who have passed similar laws to give academic credit for military service. in colorado springs, hari sreenivasan for the pbs newshour. >> woodruff: finally tonight, the next episode in our facebook watch serieseatures anthony scaramucci, president trump'ser short-lived fo communications director. here's a short preew. >> my wife and i were having some issues in our marriage. she definitely did not want me to go to washington, so again i put my pride and ego in place and it ultimately almost destroyed my family.

>> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: or >> thefoundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace a at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these instituons

and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting.io and by contrib to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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