captioning sponsor by newshour productio, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, turkey's president accuses saudi arabia of a savage, prated murder of a journalist, as the saudi crown prince allegedly behind the plot gets a standing s.ation from business lead then, immigration politics in the spotlit as a migrant caravan from central america makes its way to the united states. and, a colorado program that's offering college credit to veterans for knowledge gained during their military service. >> this is the right thing to do for servicemembers and veteranss it mhem feel as if their training and service to this country not only mattered on the bigger sense but in the particular level that they'rge noing civilian credit for what they've alreadytr demonsated. >> woodruff: all that and more

on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> kev>>. evin! >> kevin. >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymonames.com. >> and with the ongoing support of these institution >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributstns to your pbs ion from viewers like you. thank you.

>> woodruff: saudi arabia faces new demands tonight to tell all it knows about the killing of jamal khoshiggi. the demands come from turkey, and they add to the crisis engulfing the saudi kingdom and cos government. foreign affairespondent nick schifrin begins our coverage. >> schifrin: in front of a packed parliament in ankara, turkey's president today provided the highest level accusation saudi arabia premeditated the killing of a critic. >> ( translated ): the beformation and evidence that ha uncovered thus far lead to the conclusion that jamal khashoggi was the victim of a gruesome murder. concealing suculan atrocity hurt the collective conscience of humanity. in the oval office, president trump echoed that accusation,

saying the saudis re trying to cover up crimes. >> it was consider rid out poorly, and the cover-up was one of the wot in the history of cover-ups. and where it should have sto is at the deal point, when they thought about it, because whoever thought of that idea iis thinn big trouble. >> reporter: combined the two presidents put extraordinary pressure on saudi arabia, atu ths are providing most of the details. for weeks turkish offcials have leaked cctv videos and details of what they have labeled a saudi hit squad. erdogan confirmed three teams' movements from the airport, to a hotel, and to the consulate where jamal khashoggi was killed. o also provided small new details: he sa of the teams did reconnaissance in a local forest, presumably to scope where to put the body. he said another team removed the consulate's cctv cameras' hard drive. he askedon whose orders did the team act? and he rejected saudi arabia's explanation that "ro officers" acted alone. >> ( hitranslated ): blaming on some security and intelligence officers will satisfy neither us nor the

international community. they detained a security official and others. today mike pompeo said the u.s. d would revoke the visas ok into sanctioning senior saudi officials. >> we have identifi at least some of the individuals responsible, including those in the intelligence service trntion royal court, the foreign ministry and othersaudi ministries who we suspect to have been involved in mr. khashoggi's death. >> reporter: there were no public accusations today against crown prince mohamnmad salman. a turkish official close to erdogan tells pbs newshour he wants to weaken mohammad bin salman and he was trying to weaken mohammad bin salman from the king. >> ( translated ): i do not doubt the sincerity of the

custodian of the t s mosques, kiman bin abdul aziz. >> schifrin: but today king salman appeared with m.b.s. in a show of solidarity. they met jamal khashoggi's family. at one point the king points, seeming to deliver a message. as the background, a guard his hand on his gun. at another point, m.b.s. meets with khashoggi's son name. later, m.b.s. made a surprise appearance at what as supposed to be his premiere international event.oi and on stageminister khalid al-falih admitted that something is rotten in the state of saudi arabia. >> these are difficult days for us in the kingdom of saudi arabia. we are going through a crisis of sort resulting from the very regrettable and abhorrentto incident tha place in turkey. nobody in the kingdom ca justify it or explain it. >> schifrin: but m.b.s. s sidelined all public criticism while claiming to change society. he has allowed women to drive, is proposing to wean the economy

off of oil. and al-falihinted that neither m.b.s., nor the direction he's set for the kingdom, is changing anytime soon. >> the kingdom is in the midst of a historic transformation of unprecedented proportions, and the train has moved and it has moved deliberately towards a transformation journey that will not be stopped. >> schifrin: but the international criticism is higher than at any point since 9/11, and being led by erdogan, whose aides hinted he has more evidence, he could release at any point. for the pbs newshour, i'm ni schifrin. ay woodruff: nick will be back with analysis of t developments, after the news summary. and, in the day's other news,ee wall strt was whipsawed by worries over china, trade and corporate earnings. the dow jones industrial average shed nearly 126 points to closer is 25,191, aeing down

nearly 550 points orning. the nasdaq fell 31 points, and the s&p 500 slipped 15. hurricane "willa" is pushing its way on to mexico's pacific coast tonight.dr sustained windped to 120 miles an hour. but, forecasters saithe wind, waves and rain could do serious damage near mazatlan, a popular tourist resort. the storm is nowhere near a migrant caravan in southern mexico. migrant sailings from africa to europe have dropped this year, but crossingto spain are up sharply. the u.n.'s migration agency says more than 45,000 people have reached spain from africa, equal to the previous three years combined. the total for all of europe is about 95,000, down sharply from this time last year. in moscow, u.s. national security adviser john bolton today rebuffed russian efforts a to salva987 nuclear arms

treaty. he said there's no doubt russi violated the terms, despite gakremlin denials, but he no f date formally withdrawing. bolton spoke after meeting with russian president vladimir putin. he said he also told putin that meddling in u.s. elections is counterproductive. >> what the meddling did create was distrust and animosity withinhe u.s. and particularly made it almost impossible for two years rur the u.s. and ia to make diplomatic progress. so that's a huge loss for both countries but particularly to russia. so it's a lesson i thinkdon't mess with american elections. >> woodruff: later, president trump said he will probably meet with putin next month in paris, at events marking thr end of world e, 100 years ago. back in this count, federal investigators are looking into an apparent bomb found in a mailx at the compound of

liberal billionaire george soros. the explosive package turned up monday at the compound near bedford, new york, but it moved away and then, safely detonated. soros has often been a target of far-right conspiracy theorists. commerce secretary wilbur ross will not have to answer zeestions about including a cihip question on the 2020 census. the u.s. supreme court, on monday, blocked attempts by a dozen states and cities tode se ross. weir lawsuit says adding the citizenship questil discourage immigrants from taking part, and hurt states that tend to vote democratic. the first woman on the sdrreme court, sday o'connor, has announced she has dementia, andw hdrawing from public life. in a letter to the court, theju retireice says, "some time ago, doctors diagnosed ... the ,ginning stages of dement

probably alzheimer's disease." o'connor stopped speaking publicly more than two years ago. she is 88 years old. some 15,000 medical workers in california began a three-day strike today. they're demanding better pay and job security at five university of california medical centers. the strike forced thousands of surgeries and ouatient appointments to be rescheduled and, archaeologists working in the black sea say they have found the world's oldest intac shipwreck-- more than 2,400 years old. the anglo-bulgarian research a greek trading vessel. they say the ship's design had been seen only in murals and books, until now. >> we're talking entirely preserved ships from keel to gunnel. we're talking about still preserved ropes, shipwrecks that yterally look as if they had suterday. >> woodruff: the wreck was found

more than a mile deep, in oxygen-free conditions that prevented rot. still to come on the newshour: pressure mounts on saudi arabia over the death of jamal ashoggi. the migrant caravan moves steadily north through mexico.ss we discu the president's relationship with the truth ahead of the midterm elections, and much more. >> woodruff: we return t athe killing audi arabian journalist in istanbul. as we ported, turkish president erdogan called for those responsible for the murdel to be put on tn his country. nick schifrin is back. >> schifrin: pnt trump and secretary of state mike pompeo both expressed displeasure with saudi arabia. that came after turkey's

president said saudi arabia present taided khashoggi's death. to talk about that weurn to eric edleman, u.s. ambassador to turkey during the george w. bush administration. he's also held senior posts at the defense department, and on e staff.e ho and henri barkey served in the state department's policy planning office during the a inton administration. he is noofessor of international relations at lehigh university. after the attempted coup in turkey in 2016, there were a number of false reports in turkish newspapers that he was one of the coup plotters. welcome to you both. ambassador edleman, let me start with you. president trump called this a cover-up today. secretary of state mike pompeo talked about visa revocations and also plans for sanctions. is the response from the u.s. today appropriate given the hnature of the crime ande seriousness of this crisis? >> well, nick, i think it is appropriate. i think the administration at the outset was trying to put the best possible face on this because of the importance it attaches to the u.s.-saudi relationship, but i think they

recognize now that there is a head of steam building up on the hill. there are a plot of peowho have supported the kingdom of saudi arabia and itsla onship with the united states in the past, like lindsey graham, who are quite concerned about this, and i think the administration is trying to get ahead of what will undoubtedly be an important push for sanctions. i'm not sure they're going to be able to get ahead of that,us beas your piece noted, this is major crisis in the u.s.-saudi relationship, certainly the biggest one since 9/11. if evidence is found that actually links mohammad bin salman directly to the killing of jamal khashoggi, this will become an existential crisis for this relationship. >> schifrin: henari barkey lot of this has been pushed by turkish president erdogan and anonymous leaks by turkish officials. we saw turkish president erdogan's speech today. is he motivated by jamal khashoggi's death, or is he also motivated bs presence and his place in the region? >> well, he has twoim major a here. there has always been a

competition between saudi arabio and turkey fr leadership in the thgion, but what mr. erdogan really wants a stage is to be able to usn the pressure he can mus terto get to essentially dislodge mohammad bin salman because he sees m.b.s.s being very anti-turkish, and he cease m.b.s. as a block agaist turkish ambitions in the region. but beyond that, what he's also trying to do is to use the gift essentially the saudisave him to improve turkey's very, very tarnished reputation internationally. i mean, after all let's not forget that this is the country that is the largest jailer of journalists. they only recently releasinged pastor brunson afttwo years in jail. there are three american state department employeesjail in turkey. so erdogan is trying the change oe conversation and put pressuthe saudis by saying

that he wants the rpetrators to be judged in turkey. he's putting measure pressure on the saudis and keeping the conversation going. >> schifrin: eric edlto put more pressure on the saudis is one thing, or to dislodge, as we heard henri barkey say, to dislodge m.b.s. is thatibreally po? >> it's hard to tell because what goes on inside the house of saud is very opaque i think to outsiders. there certainly have been historical examples in the past of not just crown princes but kings being replaced, so that's not unprecedented. what is unprecedented has been the acmulation of power that mohammad bin salman has had in his hands over the last year and a half. whether thateans he's mada lot of enemies who now may find this an opportune time to act, or whether he still has overwhelming control, i think what you saw today, as your weece sho was efforts to at least put on a face of unity.

whether that will continue to be body'sse i think is any guess at this point. >> schifrin: henri barkey, most othe infmation we have that's at least public has come from erdogan today and also non-prows -- anonymous leaks in the turkish believabll how vable are some of these leaks, and what's motivating this constant purpose through the media that officials around erdogan have been doing? >> well, this is a very good question. i mean, there have been leaks now for two weeks almost, anthd e leaks included very, very assorted details, including torture. there was a suggestion that they had video and audio, and yet mr. erdogan did not mention thesthings today in his speech. so far the turks have not oduced any of this evidence. i suspect there is no such audio or certainly not video. it's not that easy to bug an

embassy, and the ambassador will tell oou probably from hiswn experience that they do sweep embassies fairly often, but the interesting thing about these leaks is that we thsaw western press essentially buy all these leaks as if they were the truth. i mean, nobodyever produced any evidence that hs fingers were cut, and yet every single newspaper reated that and you see it everywhere as if it's a fact. but this has been very, very effective. it has made the turks look like serious source and allow them to determine the agenda. >> schifrin: it has been very effective, eric edleman, on putting pressure on saudi arabia and personally on putti pressure on mohammad bin salmans the white s priorities for the region largely go through saudi arabia. quickly in the time we have left, how dependent is the u.s. on m.b.s. himself versus historic dependence and alliance with saudi arabia? >> i think, nick, you put you

nger on what i think is the biggest problem we face right now, which is we have big interests in saudi arabia, have had for a long time. there are energy interests. there are geopolitical interests. it's impossible to hae containment strategy, for instance, in iran without saudi arabia playing some role i it, but although the administration tionshipted the rela with saudi arabia since it came in, it has made it a relationship betweenamilies, between jared miskin and mohammad bin salman, between the el saud and trump families. we need to have relationship that is institutionalized and based on the state stutions, and i think what you're seeing with the role secretary pompeo is playing, that gina haspel is playing in her trip to turkey, the c.i.a. director, is to try to gethis back into an institutional relationship rather than familyy-to-fam relationship. >> schifrin: ambassador eric edleman, professor henri barkey,

thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: they are on a long and difficult trek: thousands of central american migrants, making their way, as a group, to the united states. the caravan, pausing for rest today in huixtla, mexico, has suddenly become the subject of heated political rhetoric here. but first: a look at who's traveling in the caravan, and the "why," from amna nawaz. >> nawaz: in the southern mexican city of tapachula, more than 7,000 migrants, mostly honduran, woke this morning to continue the journey north. >> ( translated ): when we heard the caravan was coming we joined. so this is aopportunity to improve my family's life >> nawaz: reuters reporter uplphine schrank is traveling with the gand describes it as less of a caravan, and more of an exodus.re >> it's mixture. the majorityre fairly young

but it's a complete mie of men, women, lots of children, peop of various ages. >> nawaz: caravans like this have been organized for more than a decade-- a group migrbuilt on the principle of safety in numbers and helped along the way by non-profits like "pueblo sin fronteras." earlier this spring, a smaller caravan from southern mexico peaked around 1500 members. schrank says this group came together much more spontaneously, and that the migrants she's talked to are more concerned with what they're leaving, than where they end up. >> over and over i've heard from dozens of migrants who sayhe same thing: that no matter how cruel or how difficult the welcome is at the united states border, the overwhelming need they feel to flee a toxic mixture of violence, corruption, uneployment, political fail as they see it in honduras,

really is what weighs most upon their minds. >> nawaz: president trump's escalating rhetoric, like at this texas brought this year's caravans to the forefront of the immigration debate, two weeks ahead of midterm elections. >> you know what's happening a right noa large group of people, they call it a caravan.o i think the ats had something to do with it and now e ey're saying i think we made a big mistake becaople are seeing how bad it is. >> nawaz: meanwhile, the migrants continue their jofoney, mostly o, now over 1,000 miles from the nearest u.s. border crossg. picking it up from there, to discuss some of the rhetoric and some of the poli surrounding all of this is alan gomez. he's an immigration reporter for "usa today." alan gomez, welcome back to the newshour. we heard the presidere in texas last night, but i want to ask you about something he said earlier today in the oval office. he was asked about a couple allegations he made about the caravan. he has said there are members of

the gang ms-13 and as he put it, middle easterners traveling in the cava here's what the president said earlier today. >> certainly we have people coming up throh the southern border from the middle east and other places that are not appropriate for our country, and chm not letting them they're not coming in. we're going to do whatever we have to. they're not cong in. >> nawaz: alan gomez, what do you make about what thet presid alleging there? is there any validity to that claim in. >> not that his administration can point to as of yet. we've been asking the department of homeland security ever since ed making those claims in a series of tweets where the proof was that there werea members ofgs, criminals, as he refers to them generally as ddle easterners in the group, and they haven't been able to point to any proot thaanybody exists. instead they're falling back on data of the number of criminals,

gang members, and people from "special interest" countries who have been caught trying to cross the border illegally over the past year. when he put those numbers intoow context, it that 5% of people caught along the borderf have some kindiminal background. about 0.3% are gang members, and about 0.8% come from special interest countries that include me middle eastern contries some they're saying the numbers indicate that there has to be in that group, and vice president pence made that same claim thatt if you look size of this, there just has to be some of those folks in there. in the last hor, we've heard from the department of homeland security that they are confirming that the are some criminals and some middle easterners in there. te followed up with them bu haven't heard anything back. >> nawaz: you know the president's focus on this specific caravan is elevated substantially. there's been caravans in the enst, one earlier this year. you know, in thtire immigration landscape, which you

cover so deeply, why has this one event caught the president's attention so strongly? >> timing. we're just about two weeks away om the election, and basically this falls into his rhetoric so perfectly. he's basically taken a page out of his 2016 presidential campaign and jnt riling up immigration right now. this is an issue that the 2016 election proved is one that will rile up his base, is one that appeals to them,is one that interests them, is one that scares them. and so the timing of this, th idea that for the next two weeks, because this caravan is a slow march, theylking, they're still well over 1,000 miles away from the border, the fact that these images will be aired on tvrepeatedly for these next two weeks is perfect for him, because itows this idea of an invasion as he likes the call it. i've been watching congressional debates around the country and use districts and stes like idaho and iowa and minnesota and pittsburgh in the northeast, you

hear this honduran caravan coming up repeatedly because it's something that republicans realize is something that can energize their base. >> nawaz: al gomez of "usa today" who covers immigration, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you very much for your time. >> woodruff: president trump'sts commbout that immigrant caravan during a rally last night in houston were seized nton by fact-checkers, including at the "tostar." ethey've tracked 2,915 fa things the president has said since taking office almost two years ago. that's more than four false aims a day, on average. daniel dale is the washington bureau chief of the "toronto star" and joins me now. thank yaw for being here >> thank you. >> woodruff: daniel dale, you've coffered the white house closely. i know there's been attentiont

paid to whe president says, remarks that cannot be born out by facts since he took office, but you have observed is is more of this taking place now. >> we've quantified it. se in 2017 he averaged 2.9 fal claims per day. as of now it's 4.5 false claims per day some it's more than fi per day in 2018. and it's escalated even further we've gotten closer to the mid-terms some every successive month, june, july, august, and september set a new record r the president's false claims. so over time he's getting more dishonest. >> woodruff: amna started out her interview just now asking ntentione president's that there are people of middle eastern descent inavhat car. we heard reporter alan gomez say there is no evidence of, that but ther are other commentse president has made about immigration. for example, he's talked aboutmo ats paying to get that migrant caravan started,in democrats the united states. he's made this statement. is there any evidence of this?

>> no. and i'm comfortable calling that a lie. there is simply no valide y. th no basis for that whatsoever. >> woodruff: i should say we at the newshour talk about inaccurate statements, false statoments, you're cfortable using the word "lie." why? >> because i think that's theat only accword for some of the claims he makes. i also sometimes describe his claims as false claim, sometimes you don't know if he's confused, if he's made an innt ocror, but in other cases it's clear that he's simply -- for example, at one point he claimed the head of the boy scouts called him and claimed his speech to the boy rcouts was the best speech eve given. the boy scouts told me no one ever spoke to him, no one ever calledhim, and no e ever said that. so in our regular lives, i think the word we could use is "liehi" so i we as journalists should use it in our article, as thll. >> woodruff: an couple comments the president has made about immigration, he spoke last nighagain, he said illegal

immigrants in california are voting in the upcoming mid-term elecon in california. is there evidence that this is going on in early voting california? >> no, there is no evidence for. this this is a claim at the president has made about elections in general, and it's something he said nce his own election that despite what everyone says, what every expert says, illegal immigrants are voting on mass. this in my view is a lie. there is no evidence for it whatsoever. >> woodruff: another comment the president made at a rally in nevada on saturday, he spoke abouwhat he termed "anti-immiimant" or "antgration riots" happening in california. i want to play for the audience we what he said on saturday. >> i don't think we like sanctuary cities u here. crowd: no! >> by the way, a lot of people in california don't like them

either. they're rioting now. there's a big turn being made. a lot of these sanctuary cities you've bn hearing about california and other places, but california, they want to get out. they're demanding they be released from sanctuary cities. >> woodruff: but as faras we know, daniel dale, there is no evidence of this, is that right? >> there isot. this one to me was especially orange, because he is talking about people on h side of the issue. he's not saying left-wingers are rye -- rioting, people like him reo oppose sanctuary cities a rioting. they are not. i spoke to a republican mayor of a sanctuary ci. in californ his argument is that the president was not speaking literally. he said by rioting he meant simple opposition, but i don't esidenthat's what the was conveying. >> woodruff: you cover the white house very closely. you talk to people in the. administrati you get a sense that there's a plan behind this, a strategy of some sort when the pres makes these kinds of statements? >> well, i think he knows they will be coved often quite

uncritically, that he can get headlines, and not only righwing media but many mainstream media, simplype ing the assertion. and whether or not it is true, it allows him to drive the subjecof the coverage as we approach the mid-term, so even if we're debunking on television his claims about the caravan, we're probably also showing images of people in the caravan. we're not talking about healthcare, the mueller investigation, anything else that the president doesn't want us to talk about. we're on immigration. that's his subject. >> woodruff: so you're saying this is what the president wants. he wants the pre to be talking about this and examining these claims. >> yeah. i think it's a mix of him knowing that many people won't examine it that. many people will believe him because they don't trust th mainstream media and so if we are examining it, then he still gets coverage on the subject that he desires. i should say, the toronto star does keep this -- keeps track, has been for many months keeping track of the president's

statements. there are other news organizations doing that. did you have any idea when you were assigned to cover the trump white house that you would be doing something like this? >> new york so i started this in september 2016, two months before to election, because he was just being so dishonest then, as well, that i thought there needs to be a y to focus attention on this separate from the day-to-day news coverage that i was doin and then like many people, i erroneously thought that hillary clinton would win the election and i would be freed frm thi task. of course, the president surprised many of us and won. i thounet his disy continues to be a central feature of his rhetoric and so therefore i have to continue as long as he's in office.an >> woodruff:l dale, who ro the washington bureau chief of the "o star." thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and thate of american society in our political divide is the subject of the state of our political icscourse is the subject of a new book by repu senator ben sasse of nebraska. it's called "them: why we hate each other and how to heal."

we spoke this evening and i began by asking about the increasing number of false statements recently made by the president. >> i think political tribalism is rampant iour times because there is this collapse of local tribes, good tribes, natural tribes, traditional tribes som more and more people are processing their politics, not primarily a what they're for, but as a form of anti-tribe. what are we against, so i ink you do see a willingness among the american public to accept more falsehoods than would have seemed normal at most moments in u.s. history past, because people hear them as a kind of rhetoric that is mostly a framing of the other side and the things that we're against. we need a politics that isn't chiefy that, that isn't chly against. we need a lot more we and a lot less them. >> woodruff: how do you hold the president accountable, though? you're one of, wh, 50-some republican senators. how do you, when there are

heclearly statements tha's making that can't be born out by facts, what do you do aout it? >> i don't have a great answer for this because i don't think there is a clear short-term answer, but i try to talk with the president, he and i wrestle on a number offo issuesr instance on trade, we see the world's very differently and a e mber of the things hsays sorted of implies we're going to bring back manufatacturing jobs a scale that was common in the 1950s. that's not going ao happe the decline of industrial jobs isn't chiefly because of trade. i think i'm the most pro free trade senator in the united states senate, but most of the risruption in the workforce, instance, is because of automation. a lot of times the president frames it as ifthere is somebody in another country taking your job. so he and i wrestle about thosiv issues in ate, and i talk about a good with it of it in public, as well. >> woodruff: i want to talko more broadly the book. o e title is "them: why we hate each other and howal." your theme is about how isolated americans are, how lonely americans are, how divided we

are. and it's a theme that we've been hearing about for a couple decades as sociologist robert has it gotten worse? if so, why? >> i think it has gotten worse. yore great to flag robert putnam. he had this thesis in the late 1990s called "bowling alone," which was the decline of neighbourly america, where he found that more americans were bowling than ever before and yet bowling league membership was at an all-time low. it's not a phenomenon unique to bowling. it's the case in secor after sector and community after community in the country. since putnam wrote that in the late 1990s and the year 2000, it's a digital revolution that's undermining place and the kinds of tribe of nuclear family, dee friendship, shared vocation and meaningful work together with our neighbors. local wor and as all of those tribes that sort of "we" activities that we ld together, as they decline, as place becomss significant, politics rushes in to fill that vacuum, but

politics is regularly anti-tribe, not protribe. >> woodruff: in connectio with that you write about how loyal people are particularly to their tribe to, their political party to the point of being basically unwilling to listen to any other points of vie do you see a way out of this? >> well, i think there are aco bunch ofstructive things we have to do to rebuild habits of rootedness and place and thick community despite the fact that chnology whispers to us you can be rootless. happiness literature tes us what makes us happy. it is family, frirntion hared location and local won schiffing communities. we have to figure out how to build those habits of rootedness for a rootless age. we have to figure out when you unplug from technology, how do you host your neighbors. to your point, we've had a tripling in the last 25 years of the share of america regard the other political party than the one they're in as not just naive or confused but evil, from 14% to 41% of the electorate in the last 25 years.

>> woodruff: so come back to presoent trump, because somf his rhetoric, some of his language is i think everybody agrees is contributing to a division i know a lo people think there are many other contributor, as well. how do you as a sitting republican senator push back? i know you vote with the president something like 87% of the time. what responsibility do you have do you think? >>neo of the responsibilities of all elected officials and of the president in the congress but the president of the united states, as well, is not just to have policy priorities, but to have a set of issues that are overarching. what does the first amendment mean, why do we have a constitutional system ited government. and so one of my concerns about the president is that he doesn't teany of that next generation civics instruction.a what irica going to have to wrestle with ten and 25 years from now when we need a shared r sense of we fothe cyber doctrine that we need to build, for instance. on legislation, i'm happy tha i've bee conservative since long before donald trump and i'll still be a conservative

after the president is out of office, so i'm ad he's come to adopt my policy positions on a number of legislative ma but the more fundamental point is the overarching shifts ofth what we american people believe. >> woodruff: you also like about the lack of respect for the important roam that government can play. there is ju so much name-calling and mean spiritedness about our politicam sythat government has become basically a whipping boy. does it matter that it's turned out that way? >> it does. i think the decline of trust we see in all of our public institution is the self-reinforcing and a vicious cycle. but even more, it becom a national security crisis when you have russia today and china tomorrow planning cyber attacks against the u.s.to ploit our own intensive care internal div. spend a lot of time on intelligence divisions. when your with the leadership of the u.s. intelgence community, they talk about a perfect storm for future fake attacks against udthe u.s. fake and fake video that

will be used to reinforce the icbiases that we amans have against each other, and one of the core reasons they think we have so muh curent exposureer is because russia and china know the scabs they need to pick at. there are many americans who would rather be divided from other americans than be united withther americans against future chinese and current russian cyber attacks. >> woodruff: bottom line,ri should ans come away from this depressed, discouraged about the future? >> i want... >> woodruff: or hopeful? >> bo h. i want us sober and realistic about what we need to rebuild. we're going through a digital revolution, which is akin to,ization and induste alization. ths also a crisis of loneliness in that time which created prohibition as a response. we'll have the third year of declining life expectancy in the u.s. because ofhs of despair. that mostly can't be fixed by but we, the people, still have to do that. there's a lot we can rebuild in our neighborhoods and in our ne

healthier tech habits for this new digital age. >> woodruff: one blueprint is here. the books "them: why we hate each other and how to heal." senator ben sasse of nebraska, thank you nkry much. >> tyou, judy. >> woodruff: now to the latest battle over obamacare, othe federal healthcare law formally called the affordable care act. the trump administration announced yesterday it will omant new waivers to states to e the sale of cheaper and skimpier health insurance plans. but some of these do not have to ver pre-existing conditions and, as william brangham tells us, that could play right into a major election fight over that issue.es >> brangham:rday the trump administration gave states new flexibility in designing health plans that would be cheaper and

come with fewer required befits. for example, the plans don't have to ver prescription drugs or mental health or maternity care-- all things that the affordable care act required. and these plans could also deny coverage to people with pre- existing condition as long as consumers still had access to another, more comprehensive plan that guarantees that coverage. these sound like small changes, but they'rnot. and they will take effect in 2020. president trump and many republicans contend these new options are exactly what soment consumers but this move comes as support for parts of obamacare are growing. and at least one recent poll found a majority of voters say health care is "very important" in making their decisions this november. margot sanger-katz covers healthcare for the "new york times" and joins me now. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. >> brangham: so help us figouure

what this means. >> this was always. there states can do a totally dierent system. ey have to adhere to certain guardrails to make sure they're not taking coverage away from people. the trump administration put out new rules for that process, where thebase si cl said, we're going to be much more open minded about letting statest throw l the obamacare rules and come up with their own way of managing their insurance rketplaces, so this could include allowing plans that cover fewer benefits, maybe if they don't cover prescription drugs or mental healthcare, also including plans that maybe are tt available to people h preexisting conditions or not available to them at the same price as for oher customers. and all kinds of other changes, you know, maybe who gets the subsidy for what could change. we don't know what states are going to do, but states are now welcome the bring these proposals forward and the trump administration has said they ar open to approving them. >> brangham: is the concern that federal subsidies could be seen as anenother encourag for people to buy these plans, so people might be getting a plan that they hink coveem but when a crisis hits they

don't have coverage. >> i think thereare two concerns. one is the fact that people may buy a plan and thy're healthy and they don't understand the fine print and they don't understand the fine print and their kid gets an illness or they develop cancer or a drug addiction and suddenly when they realize they need thosbenets they're not there. so there is that concern that these plans that cover fewer things, that havre exclusions could have holes for individual consumers. and then i think t is a broader concern, which is that kind of cheaper plan that covers less, that might be good for someone who is healthy and never has any ealth conditions and was never going to use their health insurance anyway, but for someone who has are pexisting illness, they are never going to buy that plan, it's not going to be available for them. t will not cover the benefits they need, so ets up these two side-by-side markets where all of the people with preexisting conditions buy the sort of comprehensive obamacare plan, and lot of healthier people are willing to roll the dice on these cheaper pla, a what can happen is that because the way insurance works is we're

sort of all pooling our premiums together to cover our collective lealth bills, you have one po over here where all the sick people are and another one over here where w all the healthy people, the price for buying e insurance for sick peocould get really, really high and that could make it unaffordable for f loeople who really need insurance the most. >> brangham: there are people all over the country struggling to pay their bills. my colleagues met a young woman in idaho who can't afford herth here. she's desperate. she sounds like she would be an ideal customer for a cheaper, maybe skimpier plan. >> i absolutely would try again for health insurance, and actually every year when the enroll. comes up, i try hoping for a miracle that there's going to be ord.an i can aff i have never given up. i try every year, and then every year it hasn't worked out, soly absolu would look at it again, and if there are plans 'll as early as next week, look into it next week. >> brangham: this is a real issue for a lot of people. >> i talk toohese peple all

the time. it is sure that obamacare madece health insurore accessible for low and middle-income people, but for a lot of people make what we would be considered to be middle-class incom these insurance premiums can be expensive and unaffordable, and vewe know those people een dropping out of the market and they're going without anything. so i thinkthat policy-makers in the trump administration are trying to be sensitive to this population and say, okay, maybe these skimpier plans aren't quite as good, don't have all the same consumer protections and benefits as an obamacare plan, but if people are choosing between this and nothing, isn't it better to give them something skimpier and let them decide em?t's the right plan for th consumer advocates are very concerned about people sort of falling through the cracks and again abt this setting mentation of the market. but i think that, you know, this person in idaho is really speaking to a real problem that we see ithe country, because health insurance is just so expensive. it's outf reach for a lot of people. >> schifrin: >> brangham: on a separate but related issue, the issue of

preexisting conditions has become a big political issue. i want to show you two excerpts of ads running in missouri. claire mchas kill and her opponent, josh hawley. >> two years ago i beat breast cancer, like th women in missouri, i don't talk about it much, but those who face cance illnesss have a preexisting condition when it comes to thehe th coverage. usual josh holly filed a lawsuit letting insurance companies deny coverage for those with preexisting conditions. that's just wrong. >> earlier this year we learned r oldest has a rare chronic disease, a preexisting condition. we know what that's like. i'm josh hawley. i support forciceng insurto cover all preexisting conditions. and claire mccaskill knows this. >> brangham: how did preexisting conditions become such a big issue in the mid-term elections? >> i think the real answer is obamacare repeal. as you may recall, the last two political cycles, republicans

have run on this message they want to repail and replace obamacare. >> brangham: which would get rid of coverage. >> it would, that becaus important part of obamacare. it's not the only way to take care of these people, but ite 's y we do it now in our law. when republicans got serious about repealing affordable care act last year, i think that suddenly this law that had been very controversial and had beent unpopular, people started to suddenly look at it differently. we saw in the public opinione polls for rst time that more people supported the affordable care act than wanted it rpealed, and that's a shift that has persisted. we saw a lot of engagement by kind of democratic activists, by disease advocacy group, peopl lobbying on the hill, organizing at home, and it's become this really central issue for democrats to say, you know, we passed the affordable care act, we're suddenly proud of it, and we are going to protect people with preexisting conditions. you look around the country, this is the number-one issue for democrats. there are more ads on healthcare than any other subject. polling has consistently shown that healthcare is if n the

st important issue the second most important issue to voters tr battleground states and all around the co, and i think republicans now are kind of floundering a little bit to find what their answer is going to be this problem. we see a lot of ads and statements from republican candidates like josh hawley's ad where republican candidates, even those who have voted for obamacare repeal proposal on the hill or who like josh hawley are part of a lawsuit that would ek to repeal the affordable care act through the courts, they are saying, no, no, no, i'm still committed to preexisting conditions. i think it's hard to beeve what they're saying, even though i think there are possible ways that they could achieve that, because they have not been very specific about how they would do it, and we have them on the record as being oppod to the way the democrats have achieved it. >> all right. >> brangham: margot, thank you very much. >> thanks again.

>> woodruff: now, how one state awards college credit for military experience. it's a way of both giving value for skills already developed in the field and ensuring military students are enticed to get a degree.re hari senivasan has the storyfo our ongoing series, "rethinking college", and our "feature for this week's,king the grade."er >> headquaa to headquarters b, request a radio check, over. >> sreenivasan: after four years as a communication sarcialist in th, kierra howard has decided she wants to go to college. at i'm in the army, but i also wanted a formal edn, too. >> sreenasan: howard believes a degree can help advance her military career. >> i decided to take baby steps, and get my associates, and then move onto bachelors. >> sreenivasan: when sheooked around to find a college last spring, she got lucky. based at fort carson in colora springs, howard enrolled at nearby pikes peak community college.

the campus is surrounded by military bases. academic advisors here look for ways to trslate military service to academic credits. paul dececco is the director of military and veterans programs at pikes peak. so how do you evaluate how to get credit for those life experiences that they've had? >> the military issues a joint services transcript. and on there, it lists out the education courses that a service member attended, and also what we call their military occupational specialty.he whatdid in the military, if we're able to give them thedit for their military experiences, or r military education, we try and do that. >> sreenivasan: pikes r arded kierra howard 20 credits, moving y ahead in her pursuit of a degree. you basically got enough credits to transfer that it shortened au year of yourtion here? >> yes. >> sreenivasan: this year, colorado legislators ed pikes peak's model by passing legislation to help all colorado

military and veteran students. colorado's new law says any statfunded institution has t be able to evaluate the knowledge or skills th student might have picked up in the military. and if that student can earn credit for it, those credits have to be transferable to every state institution. david ortiz is a veteran advocate who helped craft e legislation. >> this is the right thing to do for servicemembers and veterans. it mes them feel as if their training and service to this country not only mattered on the bigger sense but in the particular level that they're now getting civilian credit for what they've already demonstrated. >> sreenivasan: and, ortiz says, it is a policy that works. >> there's plenty of research that backs up that veterans that are awarded meaningful credit towards a degree are 33% more likely to take their degree to graduation, to fruition.se and then bup for success for a job in the civilian world. >> sreenivasan: a former army pilot, ortiz was medically retired in 2012, after his helicopter crashed in afghanistan. he says a servicemember's experiences are creditworthy.

fo you go from being responsible multi-million dollar t, being responsible for a dozen men and women, accomplishing a mission, high- intensity with quick timelines coming up, where lives are on the line. there's maturity and life experience that comes with it, but there's also professional experience that's already been ined. >> sreenivasan: but the transition from intense military experience can sometimes keep veterans from returning to the classroom, especially if they feel they are starting from scratch. >> they'realking in with the feeling of i've had all of these experiences, both good and bad, i've had these life experiences, and now i t to sit in english 121, english composition, or basic english class, with bunch of folks who just got out of high school. so, it becomes a challenge. >> sreenivasan: david ortiz says awarng credits helps address that imbalance. >> those that have served for five, 10, 20 years, some working in intelligence, some working in communications, don't start at the same footing as your 18- year-o graduating high school. >> sreenivasan: ty upshaw retired from the army after 21

years. he says the 15 credits he received for his military experience was a great motivator. >> once i found out that i was able to receive credit for the ooings i'd done in the military, that was a great b in morale. it made me feel like everything i had done was a success. >> sreenivasan: upshaw is pursuing a bachelor's degree in business at the university of colorado in colorado springs. he was able to transfer skills learned from army's human resources department to necessary courses >>r business school. was deployed to iraq, kuwait, and afghanistan. as a human resource specialist, sometimes we w charge ofed i receollege credit for computer information science course, group communication, organizational communication, public speakin: >> sreenivast will awarding course credit for military experience water down the integrity of a college degree? is military experience really comparable to college experience? >> we're not here to ggifts. >> sreenivasan: colorado state thnator owen hill, one of bill's sponsors, says colleges will need to do rigorous assessments. s it shouldn't just be blanche there needto be a logical, well documented, clear.

we want to make sure that we are giving credit for real work that s been done. if you give someone credit and they don't really know it,hen we're setting them up for failure. >> sreenivasan: paul dececco says the law has opened up a needed conversation between the state's two year and four year colleges. >> what the law did, is it brought everyone to the table, soe could talk as equal partners. whereas before, i don't know that there was motivation from the other major universities within colorado to do that. why do i want a community college telling me what i should, or shouldn't accept? the law told every university and college within colorado that they must have this process. >> sreenivasan: for his part, ty upshaw has plans for how he'llus e his degree in business. >> i'm going back to school because i want to open a jazz club. i'll be able to fine tune my business pn, and target rket, for the people we want to attract into our jazz club. >> sreenivasan: kierra howard says she plans to stay in th. ar

>> getting with a promotion in the army. i just want to take courses and learn so i can be a better soldier. >> sreenivasan: colorado joins 23 other states who have passed similar laws to give academic credit for military service. in colorado springs, i'm hari sreenivasan for the pbs newshour. >> woodruff: finally tight, the next episode in our facebook watch series features anthony scaramucci, president trump's short-lived former communications director. here's a short preview. >> my wife and i were having some issues in our marriage. she definitely did not want me to go to washington, so again i put my pride and ego in place and it ultimately almost destroyed my family.

>> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff.ne join us onnd again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. >> arnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and necurity. at ce.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals.

>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ - this week on milk street, we finally uncover the secrets to great homemade pizza dough then we make a very simple shaved zucchini salad. and, finally, we travel to rome to uncover the secrets of the mother of all pasta sauces. that would be cacio e pepe, cheese and pepper. stay tuned for the roman classics that would be cacio e pepe, right here ondmilk street. - funding for this series was provided by the following.