♪ hello, everyone. and welcome to "amanpour and company." we are shown the intergalactic connection between space and our military. plus, a violin performance by one of the world's best. daniel hope tells me how his incredible family history brought him to music. and peirouetting his way to the top. how damian wetzel became the president of new york's prestigious juilliard school. ♪

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divided from the kavanaugh hearings to elections to climate change. here to save the day, though, neil de grasse tyson, connecting the dots between two vastly different universes. in his new book, "accessory to war: the unspoken alliance between astro physics and ministry," he explains the straight line within that relationship. when i spoke to him from new york, we discussed the way astro physics affects everything from the gulf war to tinder to climate change and to our politics. even to truth. neil de grasse tyson, welcome to the program. >> thank you. thanks for having me. >> okay. so what is this accessory to war? why is that the sub title of your book? and it's kind of alarming that astro physiciani astro physician physics would be

an access tree ory to war. >> it shocks people. it might not be upsetting to some, who sort of -- who are sort of fans of the military. but it's definitely a bit surprising to consider that what i do professionally in my community of astro physicists does have strong overlap with the concerns and needs of the military. and that has been the case for centuries and even millennia, going back to the time when if you were going to be engaged in conquests or hegemony or empire-building, you had naval vessels to accomplish this and you needed to know where you were on earth. where you were headed, where you came from, how to get back home. that entire navigational question, all of your ability expressed through knowing where you are on earth was established and empowered by the intellectual backbone of

astronomers of the day. we know the sky, and we can navigate the sky. and that gets brought to earth to know where you are by longitude and latitude. >> so that sounds like a perfectly reasonable accessory. and it's -- i mean, i'm a layperson. but it's a little bit like having a gps system, right? >> yeah, so you bring the navigators' tools of an particular witty to modern times and you've got gps. gps was conceived and built and launched by the u.s. air force. the u.s. space command. a branch within the usa.s. air force. and yes, now the military knows not only where they're going, where they're coming from, but now that we have targeted missiles, you now have weapons targeting that exploits the precision of gps -- of gps satellites that enable us. the gps satellite tells you where you are, longitude and

latitude and also where you are in altitude and exactly what time it is. and all of this combined empours the military. now we use it for commerce. we also use it for commerce. but to many people's surprise, i think, in the early days. now we have entire industries that exist only because of gps. like uber or tinder. >> i didn't think we were going to be talking about tinder with the professor of astrophysics, but nonetheless, here we are. so does it bother you -- obviously, does it bother you to be an accessory to the military and to war, essentially? and what is the worst that can happen? you've described perfectly rational needs, such as knowing where you're going to and coming from. what is the worst that can happen in this, you know, con joining of astrophysics and war? >> yes, so i used to stand in judgment of this.

and i tracked that to the fact that i was raised in new york city, which is generally a liberal town. and i'm from a community, an academic community, that is also liberal and generally anti-war. plus, my earliest encounters with war, my earliest exposure to war, was vietnam on television in the late 1960s. and so it was no one at that time saying, oh, this is a just war. this is a great war and we will build statues of our war heroes. no, that was a bad war. and so having been sort of shaped and imprinted by that understanding of war, it was no way i could think any war would be good or just. and i would be much older before i would reflect on the fact that there are wars that were just and necessary. that the second world war especially among them. we're not going to sit idly by while hitler does what he does.

>> again, you could say that the astrophysics at the time, which could see potentially -- i don't know, could it at the time? >> so, no, we had no views from space. there was no satellites or anything. what science could have done would have shown how closely related genetically all human beings are on earth. removing your possible justification of hitler saying that his strain of humans were better than other strains of humans. there were ways that science could have brought that. part of that was mixed in with the u generyu generalics movesm. survival of the fittest. i'm more fit than you so i'm a better nation or a better culture. so there's -- there was so much room for abuse there that you need people to sort of keep that in check, as well.

here's what happened. worder von braun, a german rocket pioneer, invents the v2 rocket, which terrorized london, which was the first ballistic missile. this is a rocket that gets launched, leaves earth's atmosphere, travels in the vacuum of space and lands on its target vastly farther away than any previous missile could be launched. worder von braun knew that if after that war people were going to go into space, any kind of big way, they would need that technology. and sure enough, at the end of the war, we didn't put worner von braun -- didn't send him to nuremberg on trial. they ultimately burst our space program, which, by the way, is a vote for immigrants to the united states. >> well, it's a vote for immigrants, but it's also kind of alarming, because we're

getting slightly off-piece here, but it's also, you know, failing to hold mass murderers accountable. >> well, so this is -- well, except that if the mass murderer has tools that you want in your own defense and your own security, then you ignore that, you give them a stay of execution, and you make them part of your team. that's not a new thing that people have done in the past. maybe the early version of that is you beat the heart of your enemy to gain the strength they had or to believe you had their strength. maybe this is a modern version of that. so, yeah. so werner von braun burst nasa, basically. our rockets to the moon were conceived by him. >> that's incredible. i did not know that. >> yes, yes. and so -- and we kind of cleansed the background there, that he attempted to, you know,

slaughter civilians -- by the way, the v2 rocket comes in supersonically. so it's not one of these -- [ whistling ] no, no. there is no sound. because it is traveling faster than the sound it makes. as it falls out from space. and so you just walk down the street and a block explodes. so it's a terrifying weapon. that is the same technology you need to go into space. and this is this -- this is the alliance. this two-way street. i discover something and the military says, hey, i want some of that. the military discovers something, and it gets declassified. i look over the pickett fence and i say that will help us too. this is that two-way alliance that's been going on forever. >> and just briefly, is the v2 the precursor of the intercontinental ballistic missile? >> precisely. >> so in your book, you said the first trillion air will be the person who exploits the natural resources of space itself and that access to space in the future may be the deciding

factor on not only whether we can accommodate the growth of our population but produce and generate wealth. >> yeah. so here's the thing. this relationship between astrophysics and the military, both enabling each other, in the future, may actually be the greatest source of peace. that the world has seen. consider a fraction of wars, maybe a third, are over limited access to resources. and you fight someone to gain that access. space has basically unlimited resources. there are single steroids with more gold, platinum, cadmium, that has ever been mined on earth, and unlimited sources of energy from the sun. and so if space becomes our backyard, then access to resources gets removed as one of

the reasons why people might ever wage war. if you take over an asteroid, i say fine, i'm taking over this asteroid and i'll compete with you economically. and there's hundreds of thousands of asteroids out there. so it's -- may be this relationship rather than something that feeds war might actually ultimately feed peace. >> so what do you think about the trump administration space force? what is that all about? and is that for military aggressive purposes, do you think? or is it for the purpose of, you know, encouraging our future? >> yeah, it's a great question. i think the speeches, if you heard them, the original one by the president himself and then by the vice president. they -- there was some muscle flexing. it's like, yeah, look at this bicep here. and that's going to be in space. there was a lot of that. but it left people thinking that we'll just have sort of missiles

destroying things in space. that's not a realistic future for what that is. because space is a communal place. the way space certainly in the near term would be used is as it has been used. as a place of reconnoissance. as a place that gives information to land, sea and air military operations. the second gulf war, 2003, was entirely enabled by space assets. space has already been militarized. >> what do you mean? what do you mean about the space assets? i have covered that war. i don't remember the space assets. >> okay. great that you could say -- i was there! yes. so what's happening is, that was the first time that gps was -- became a fundamental part of all of the branches of the armed forces, knowing where they are and where they were headed and how to target their missiles. so space became a -- in a sense,

an informational command center, guiding all the operations that were being conducted. and that contributed to a sufficiency. the -- also the targeting. all of this that went on in that war. so it was the first space-enabled war we've ever conducted. >> i do remember how efficient it was. it was like a knife cutting through butter from entering iraq at basra in the south all the way up to baghdad took very little time and very little resistance. >> consider also that in large regions that don't have street maps, that don't have roads, that don't have traditional things that tell you exactly where you might find grandma's house or supply depot. you need coordinates from space to tell you that. so now you know where things are, even when you didn't previously have a map of the region. so in that sense, space has already been militarized, but not in the sense of weapons and

lasers and things in the sense of intelligence-gathering for other operations. >> do you foresee a time when space itself will be, as you put it, weapons and lasers and, you know, intergalactic battles taking place up there? or is that just "star wars" fantasy? >> when you think of what a military's task should be, and this is back to the space force. you want them to -- what does the military do? they protect you, all right? they provide security for your life. sometimes it's at the border. in modern times, you need sort of cyber security. this sort of thing. okay. in space, what are they protecting? well, i have space assets. i have a weather satellite. i have a tv communications satellite. you want to protect those, because i'm conducting commerce through them. not i -- i mean our citizenry. now, it's not only the value of the hardware that's up there. it's the value of the economy that it enables on earth.

so if you have a weather satellite and it gives you a picture of a moving hurricane and you can warn people and businesses and commerce, move, do this, take this precaution. you save money, you save lives. and so you want a space force to protect that. wouldn't you? so now i'm a rogue state and i have a satellite that's kind of irritating your commerce satellite. or i'm tickling it, i want to block it. so you're going to want some way to defend against that. the outer space treaty of 1967 which reads like kum ba yah. it's very hopeful. you all hold hands and save other astronauts if they're in trouble. it's beautifully written. but it allows you to put defensive weapons in space. now, if i see your satellite coming towards me, even though it hasn't done anything yet and i'm a little spooked and i -- as a first strike take you out, is that defensive, right?

so there is some gray area there. >> that's really gray. >> really, really gray. >> really gray. >> it's agrgray on earth, too, course. so, now, i don't see -- i don't see bombs in space. plus, you're not going to drop a bomb on earth from orbit. that's just not efficient. we already can deliver a bomb through intercontinental ballistic missiles. you can send a missile from one place to anywhere earth within 45 minutes. that's what makes them so deadly, which is why those things held us hostage, the world hostage, during the entire length of the cold war. you're not going to do that, because you'll make a mess of space and you conduct business or military operations. what could happen, if you have colonies on mars and colonies on the moon, multiple colonies on the moon, and then you start getting tribal, you say this is my colony, it's not your colony. this is my country, here's my flag. i can imagine wars on the surface of the moon. wars on the surface of mars. i can imagine that. >> so let me ask you this. my flag, my country, my colony,

my moon, my planet. neil armstrong, and films being produced and series about the first time man walked on the moon and it was man. neil armstrong. nasa doesn't seem to be -- and i don't know what you think about this. is there any more value to any more, you know, manned space flights that actually land on the moon or on other planets? >> you ask a very important and fascinating question. so in the modern age of robotics, to send humans to do science, when you can send 10 or 20 or 50 robots for the same price, most -- nearly all scientists will say send the robots. i don't need to go. because i can now land in 50 places on mars and do science rather than just one. because people have to feed them. they usually want to come back to their families.

you know. this is costly. and the ship has to be -- you know, it has to be, quotes, what they say, man-rated as opposed to machine-rated so extra safe. so if you are talking about just pure science, it's very hard to argue why you would send a person. however, if you want to talk about the passion for why you do this, i've never seen a ticker tape parade given for a robot. >> i agree. >> and so you want to talk about what will stimulate interest in the next generation. you send a person who can come back and tell stories about it, and be on the news and that becomes what drives us to want to do it. because one of our own has done it. it's no different from an particul antiquity, where they show drawings and bring samples. it's the vie vicarious

experience. so that has value from making it happen in the first place. and i will not deny that reality. >> and you've said, i'm okay with the u.s. space force. but what we need most is a truth force. one that defends against all enemies of accurate information, both foreign and domestic. and i assume you would include scientific information, facts, evidence and all of the rest. so -- >> yeah. that's right. because we live in an era where nobody claims they know what the truth is. fake news, real news. and we do have systems in place to establish what is true, what is objectively true about the world. one of them is the national academy of science. sciences. which, by the way, was established by abraham lincoln. in what year? 1863, when he clearly had other important things going on in his life. he designed into law this body of scientists, independent of

any politics going on in washington, to advise the executive branch and the legislative branches of what role science might play in establishing laws and legislation for the benefit of our citizenry. >> i just feel like jumping in, because it's so relevant right now. the idea of defending the truth, defending facts and evidence. and just who go back to astrophysics -- at least to nasa, when we read that actually, back in 1998, james hanson provided what's considered the first warnings about global warming, telling the u.s. congress that he could declare with 99% confidence that a recent sharp rise in temperatures was a result of human activity. and recently he said all we've done is agree there's a problem, saying promises like paris don't need much. it's wishful thinking, a hoax, the governments have played on

us since -- i guess all this is to say, your much-wanted scientific community has just not been listened to, because politics did come to play and there was that moment where we might be able to stop this tipping point moment of the deathly increase in degrees of temperature and politics intervened. >> yeah. so just to be clear, in my later years, i'm more mature than i was decades ago. so i recognize that politics is always going to be in there at some level. the problem occurs when the politics stands in denial of newly revealed objective truths about how this world works. then you have people choosing politicized around scientific results. rather than saying, okay, we've got the global warming, we're doing it, let's go in the back room and duke it out politically about how to resolve this.

do you put carbon credits? do you tax solar panels? do you have a new program to retrain people from coal to -- those are political answers. and i don't have any problem with that conversation happening behind or in front of closed doors. but when what's going on behind closed doors is denial of what scientists are telling you, oh, my gosh. that's the beginning of the end of an informed democracy. watch the united states slide down a hill of irrelevance, relative to the rest of the world. >> neil de grasse tyson, thank you so much for joining me. >> yeah, i'm sorry. i'm screaming at you half of the time. sorry. you got me started here. >> we like it. we like the passion. it's important. >> thank you. back down to earth now. all be it with the heavenly sounds of strings. daniel hope is one of the world's best violinists, in demand everywhere from east to west. and now he's opening up about the story behind his restless life. a new film explores daniel's

complex family history, which flows from nazi germany to south africa under apartheid and eventually to london. here fate brought him to the legendary violinist and now daniel has come with his violin to our london studio for a little music and some discussion about his fascinating history. daniel hope, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> you do have an extraordinary life story. your film opens with you back in germany. and you are looking at a family plot, the grave. graveyard. tell us what that's about and the significance of that on your life story. >> well, on my mother's side, my family came from berlin, they were jews, kicked out of germany in the 1930s. and it's an extraordinary story. my grandmother grew up in a house which was confiscated by the foreign minister at the time, and turned into the center for nazi criptology. so my grandmother's house became

this extraordinary place. and i started to research about this many years ago. >> and, in fact, that's it. >> that's the house. >> yep. >> and having found out more about this and everything that went on in this house, i also started to research other members of the family, and we found a grave, a beautiful plot, in a berlin cemetery. so i went there to see if we could find out more about it. and i was amazed to find out there was an egyptian gentleman who had wanted to buy it, and to use it to be buried. and i was able to intervene in the nick of time and get it back for our family. >> so you now own that property. >> yes. well, it still belongs to the government in a sense. but we have the rights as the family so we're able to now restore it, and it's one of the most beautiful tombs in germany, designed by a very famous

sculptor from the 19th century. it's about going back to history. >> and going back to your roots. >> yes. >> because, in fact, your story is that you were born in south africa. >> yes. >> because of this persecution of your grandmother's family in nazi germany. they fled to south africa. and also from another direction, your father's family ended up in south africa. tell us how they met, and why south africa? >> my father's grandfather came from ireland, ran away at the turn of the century. got on a ship, went to south africa. and had the idea to fight with the british and stayed in south africa. and my father is a writer. a wonderful writer, a very political person. and his books were banned under the apartheid regime. he was -- is still a fiercely political person, but at the time anti apartheid. and so we were given a so-called exit permit, exit visa, which was aroused in south africa.

it meant you could leave the country, but you had to submit your passport. >> goodbye, good riddance. >> exactly. so we decided to do that. my parents weren't happy bringing up young children in an apartheid environment. and so we came back to europe. they had no money, they ran out of money. and they tried to make ends meet. >> and they landed right here in england. >> that's right, in london. >> and then i think the most amazing thing, because clearly what brought you to music was your mother, who became secretary to one of the greatest violinists ever, right? >> yes. >> tell us that story. how on earth did that happen? >> well, she went out to look for a job. -- >> well, that's you with him as a kid. >> that's right, yes. and there were two offers that came her way. secretary to the archbishop of canterbury at the time and secretary to de menwin. and the funny thing was the then archbishop of canterbury had

given a sermon and my parents were both shocked he did not distance himself from apartheid. >> that's a great story. >> and so they said, never, ever to the archbishop. and then the offer came, and my mom said, how difficult can it be? and it was supposed to be a part-time job, six months. and she ended up being there for over 25 years. >> she did and you did. how did her being a secretary and managing his life lead to you -- oh, look. he turned out to be your mentor, your instructor, your teacher. how did that happen? where did your musicality come from? >> this was taken in switzerland where he had his wonderful festival. we went there every summer. and my mom would take me to the rehearsals and concerts. the first orchestra i ever heard was the chamber orchestra, for example, as a young kid. i never dreamed one day i would be their music director. so in a sense, everything happened, started there, and here in london where he lived.

and at the age of 4, having absorbed all this music, i demanded to play the violin. i said to my parents, i have to play the violin. >> which they must have loved, right? >> i think if you're surrounded by music all of the time, things like this can happen. that's the great thing about music. you can inspire children, open their minds. and i was determined. i just wanted to play. yeah, that's it. and i studied with nelson, who is a great, great teacher. paid for the lessons, as well. he gave me that first chance. and for that, i'm eternally grateful. >> so just to be clear, mennowin was so good, wasn't it einstein who said something about there must be a god? >> yes, when he gave his debut in berlin, in 1929, and he was 12 years old, einstein rushed back and said to this 12-year-old boy, almost falling on his knees, now i know there's

a god in heaven. a much-used quote. it's true, there was nobody like menuwin, and his first explosion on to the international scene was unparalleled. >> i just want to tell you, i encountered the great man when i was a distance down the road from here -- >> really? >> yeah, when i was 20 years old. and he came in, and his wife came in, and she's quite -- she's quite something. but his aura was really, really present. it was amazing to meet you today and to talk about him. because you then went to the boarding school. >> yes. >> at the age of 6. >> i was 8, in fact. >> 8, in fact. >> yeah. >> and it was pretty dire, wasn't it? >> well, it was too early for me, you know. it's now a very, very fine school. but at the time, you know, i didn't really know what practice was. i didn't know what the regime of making music was. i just wanted to have fun and play. and so it didn't go down too

well. i was very unruly. i had to spend too much time on one piece. and so -- also boarding was -- i was home sick. and so the whole thing was -- didn't go well, put it that way. >> well, your mom, in fact, speaks very eloquently to the bits that didn't go well. when she was called in by the teachers for some disciplinary reaction and complaints about you. this is what she said, as quoted in your film. >> daniel had done something that was strictly forbidden. and i held on to my chair. and he said he was caught practicing the concerto. i beg your pardon? is tat a crime? is something wrong with that? and he said, no, but he's far too young to be playing meddleson. and i said, what is he supposed to be playing? oh, he's supposed to play the bacha minor. and i said he's been playing

that for two years. isn't it time to move on? and he said no, and what's more, he was caught practicing secretly in the bathroom. >> it's true. >> she does give a great rendition of it. it seems absurd, but i guess music and violin and the greats have a particular schedule that you were meant to follow. >> that's right. and, you know, it was too early for me. but i was frustrated, because i loved meddleson. i wanted to play this piece and i wasn't allowed to. so i stole the music from a friend and i went to the communal bathroom, locked myself in and started playing. and it probably sounded terrible. to this day, when i play that piece, i still think back to those memories. >> you also think back very, very profoundly to the memories of your ancestral home to germany. you play a lot of music -- you're determined to keep the spirit alive and also to keep those silent, jewish composers

alive. those who the nazis tried to silence. and fast forward to caddish, the great mourning song for the death, one you play often, by maurice rival and played it for menuwin at his death bed. >> not at his death bed but a few days before he died suddenly. i played it as an encore after we played together as a gesture, because i grew up on his recording of the piece. in fact, it was the last time i saw him. and so in hindsight, it became my own personal requiem. i've played it many times on many different occasions. in germany, for example. or to remember people. in thomas munn's house, in the film, we were lucky enough to get in there before it was sold. >> the great german writer. >> yes, just to remember certain moments in history. chris tanna, the night of broken

glass. i helped organize concerts in germany to remember that. and often the caddish is the piece i choose to share on those occasions. >> you said it's my personal caddish, playing this. and what you did for him. do you feel jewish? >> i feel like a big mixture. i'm jewish, catholic, european. >> your family were christians, but of jewish descent. >> correct. >> and you have dedicated so much of your professional life to keeping the spirit of great jewish art and judaism alive. >> i feel an incredibly strong connection to that heritage. and my mother's side, you know, it goes back to the first rabbi. so it's inescapable in that sense. and i am very proud of it. also the irish-catholic side. let's say there is a lot of guilt in our family, if you go back far enough.

>> you have maybe the red hair of the irish-catholics? >> that comes from the jewish. >> there you go. what do i know? would you like to play "caddish" for us? >> i would love to. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> sound like tears. >> yeah. >> at the end there. i wonder, you know, as you play that, which is a specific, specific mourning song. whether you mourn a little bit for what's happening back in your homeland, germany, what's happening across europe, the rise of the kind of politics that is a stone's throw away from nazi germany. >> yes, i think it's a very

troubling time in world history. not just in europe, but everywhere. the rise of the far right. and i think the way that the world has become much smaller with all of its benefits, also means that things happen much faster. and they have -- at least i have the impression that they have the tendency to spiral out of control. and so, you know, with two young children now, i've just had a new baby, and a 4-year-old boy. i ask what's going to happen to them? or what's the future going to be, the future of europe, the future of politics? the future of peace? >> and yet, you have gone to regain your german citizenship, and you explained that you've gone to reclaim some of the family property there. >> yeah. >> and in your film, you talk about, you know, what's happening there. almost like you went there and sort of felt a little bit alien going back. i just want to play the clip of what you said, and actually it's in german.

[ speaking in foreign language ] well, that was obviously said a couple of years before we're talking right now. where were you, and you had this kind of premonition of what we may be living through right now. >> that was in the museum in lubeck in north germany in the thomas man museum, a famous writer, emigrated to the united states. and it's an extraordinary museum. which looks at immigration and

enforcing immigration and the whole history of that. and we're seeing that, of course, now in germany, but everywhere. this whole idea of people on the move, for whatever reason. and i think there is great fear and great worry in europe. at the same time, i do believe very much in the european principles. and i do consider myself a european or an englishman abroad, put it that way. >> your father became really the one who was behind you and took you to your practice sessions and all of your performances. and he said that -- i think he said that you almost had no personal life. being a violinist from a very, very young age meant that you sacrificed a lot. >> of course, there are sacrifices that one has to make. at the same time, you know, both my parents were unbelievably supportive. my father would write his books at the same time while i was practicing.

he would keep an eye on me, but would never force me. and it's always an interesting balance with parents to give that support without going too far. but giving a child that chance to experience music, classical music, is one of the greatest joys one can do. and i'm eternally grateful for that chance. and i see it with my children, as well. there's something about classical music, which infiltrates the soul and opens up the imagination. >> having said that, there is so much cutting and slashing of culture and music and art at schools today, here and across europe and across the united states. and it's also incredibly expensive. i mean, the school that you went to is actually very, very expensive. i think it's something like 55,000 pounds per year. >> now it is. >> well, now it is, yeah. how can young children who don't have that, you know -- those means and yet might have a talent even be exposed to music?

>> there are many wonderful programs that give children instruments for free, for example. particularly in germany, where i live. there are dozens of foundations that engage in young people and give them the chance. there's one in the uk, but also one called life music now created by menuwin and brings young musicians together with people who wouldn't have necessarily experienced music. people in old age homes. people in hospitals. but more important than that, there are chances for them to get access to the music itself. and that is the most important thing. so to all politicians out there, i hope that you'll consider not cutting any more from the budget. >> yeah, and we need it more than ever right now, with all the hard, you know, harsh environment that we all live in. thank you, daniel. >> thank you so much. and the film, "daniel hope,

hope,: the sound of life" premiers this week. and now we pirouette to dance, where our next guest shines. once the toast of the new york city ballet, he has leapt into a new career as president of the historic juilliard school of new york, a proving ground for the great actors, dancers and musicians of tomorrow and he told our walter isaacson about his career and why he and the cellist, yo yo ma, could unexpectedly drop into a school near you sometime. >> you had an education that was very wide-ranging, because of your parents. it wasn't focused on dance initially. >> no. i mean, the whole concept really was just having the opportunity to engage with as many different things. and then we would see where it went. and i can assure you, ballet was not the intention. it was enrichment of a sort. what i realized is that i liked to be on stage. and happened to be a way to get

on stage. so i stuck with it. and as things went along, some things stuck harder than others. and, you know, my brother, you've met him. >> and you were both studying chinese. >> we've had chinese. >> dance and then you -- >> dance and music and different instruments. and lots of different opportunities, as i said. but then, you know, as you get older, you start to realize the ones that really -- where you have a foothold. >> but do you think a broad-based education and everything from the sciences of the humanities to the arts helps you be more creative? >> i think it's essential. i think that the idea of creativity is all about how things go together. it's not simply about focus on one thing. it's about having the -- you know, about letting go of certitude and engage in curiosity and saying, yes, i want to, you know, be as good as i can at one thing. but it's how it relates to everything else. that's where the creativity actually comes. >> it was around age 15, i

think, when you had your first breakthrough, right? there was -- young apollo -- was it? was created for you? >> yes. >> explain it to me. >> i grew up in boston and my brother and i had lots of opportunities. and the story i have to tell about this, and you have to indulge me. on one saturday morning on the way to these things, he and i in the back of the car looked at each other, and i said, i'm not going to chinese any more. it's just not -- i'm going to spend more time at ballet. and he said, well, i'm not going to ballet any more, i'm going to spend more time on chinese. and he's been a partner in mckinsey in china almost 30 years. and i went on to be a ballet dancer. and at that moment, which i think i was 11 at that point -- i really felt, this is it. i'm going to be a dancer. i'm going to be a dancer. i just felt it. and all the other things said it in different ways, but i started to narrow right at that moment. and at 15, as you said, i was lucky enough to have an opportunity to make a new york debut at the joyce theatre

downtown on 8th avenue, which had just opened as a house for dance. and i had a nice reception, i guess. >> why did you want to come back to new york? >> new york really is the epicenter. and it's an image in my mind of where the pulse is. and, you know, the new york city ballet, new york state theatre, lincoln center, all of that was here. and that's where i set my eyes on. >> and how important was drum robbins to you coming here? >> increasingly so is really the truth. i think as i grew up, i started to become more and more aware of what, you know, we call the repertory and what might be considered classics and what might be considered bold and innovative. and through it all, your heroes start to develop. first it's performers. it's because i think, you know, when you're engaging in an art form like ballet, you look at your heroes. so misha, barishnikov.

i know he does swan lake, but what's that thing with the sailors? i remember seeing photos doing that piece. and, of course, i knew something like "west side story." and then i was, wait, same guy? this is child-like. but suddenly, i'm here in new york. and jerome robbins is walking around. and it's the history is the present. and so i was lucky enough to not only, you know, work with jerry, but he really in some ways identified me and brought me into the company. >> what was your favorite jerome robbins performances or roles that you played? >> well, you know, there's two that come to mind instantly. one i mentioned. "fancy free." it was in collaboration with leonard bernstein. and we happened to be talking in their anniversary year, their centennial. >> right. leonard bernstein.

>> and jerome robbins' 100th, as well. and so these -- >> and they worked together very closely here? right here in lincoln center? >> well, in those days, lincoln center wasn't here yet. but jerry made "fancy free" with lenny as a collaboration. and it's an extraordinary story. you know, they're young guys on the cusp of greatness. and there they are, making this thing. one of the treasured possessions i have are recordings of how leonard bernstein would make a recording -- and i picture it happening in some kind of fairy down at the heels recording studio in times square. but they were records. and he would send jerry a record of the latest music of "fancy free" with the piano score. jerry was on tour. you would hear this piano, and then jerry would take the microphone and talk and he would say, dear jerry, i hope you can understand this and understand that.

and on one of these recordings, this will give you a sense of this extraordinary legacy. he says, i hope you can understand this particular section, it's really a mess with the pianos, and it's all aaron copeland's fault and you hear somebody laughing in the background. >> and that was aaron copeland. >> playing two pianos with leonard bernstein. >>s and you first did that at city ballet. >> yeah, when i first joined new york city ballet, i was called very early. and it's a story about three sailors on shore leave. later, second version of the broadway show "on the town" you may know, ♪ new york new york and it was that mighty, mighty yacht. damn, they arrived. countless curtain calls and these young guys. and jerry was in it as a dancer and he did this sailor. he was -- did the rhumba dance and the other sailors like a kid from kansas, kind of dreamy. another little rough and tumble short guy, a lot of energy. and jerry would create these

characters. so fancy-free. >> you said you were tired in 20 2008, you broadened your aperture, where you became interested in everything. arts and society and combining them. explain what was your thought process there? >> well, as i became the dancer i became, i was lucky enough to start to widen, you know, at a certain point, and i started being the arts guy in the room. and in a room of many things. i would get to go to conferences or, you know, what have you, and talk about the role of the arts and society. and in an aspirational way, as well as a realistic way. and it grew out of so many things that i believed in benefited me coming to a place like new york and ending up in lincoln center and understanding the history of lincoln center and how that's wedded to the history of new york city itself. so i started engaging about that particularly. you know, the obvious touch points. education, for instance. whereas the arts and education

and myself benefited so greatly. >> do you worry we're losing arts in the schools in. >> of course. i spent a lot of energy and time trying to work on that, talk about that, turn-around arts program, which i know you've seen in action. created by president obama's committee on arts and humanities. expressly for making sure that arts reach the most challenged school districts of this country. >> and tell me, you do art strikes with yo yo ma sometimes, little bach reilly. >> yo yo and i dreamt up this concept of art strike. you could have a massic impact in a short amount of time if you focus your energy and you have the right collaborative partners, essentially. and the principle of it was that a visiting artist of any kind will often have enough time to do something in a community that they are not ordinarily in. so we literally said, on the way to the airport, why not stop at

a school. kind of like that. that's an art strike possibility. >> so wait, you rush into a school? >> well, you have to lay a little ground work. the idea of a presenter can say, would you take the time, you know, while you're here, doing your performance of whatever kind it is to do a little bit of community work? and we'll partner you with something. so we tried this out in l.a. about, i don't know, seven or eight years ago. he had a concert at disney hall. and before he went to the airport, as it were, we went to a magical place called inner city arts down on skid row, downtown los angeles. and it's sort of an oasis for arts education students from the general vicinity. they come on buses and spend time there and engage in music and dance and visual arts. and drama. and it literally is like a garage door goes up and you go in and you're like, this is -- this is heaven. >> it culminates with you coming here to juilliard.

not a typical choice. a dancer. taking over juilliard. but everything you've just explained to me seems to be part of a great vision for juilliard. which is connecting it. >> after my quote, unquote, retirement as i started dancing in 2008, i was so lucky. i was directing performances, i was doing art strikes with yo yo, working on arts education. i ended up working for you at the aspen institute and arts policy program, really looking at, you know, ways we can really push the arts in society. and a lot of the same people kind of start to filter into this conversation. on all of the sides. whether they're, you know, we're doing the performance that, you know, at lincoln center or we're talking at an arts education conference or -- it all -- like yo yo and little bach and others start to emerge. and i was very intentional about keeping the opportunity to do these different things. then this idea came to me about

juilliard. and it just was like lightning. i just thought, well, that's where it all can happen. it can all happen. it's the cradle, if you will. it's not only the artist, the individuals that we can nurture and give all these opportunities to broaden and narrow and broaden and narrow and to give them the opportunity to develop their voices at artists and as citizens of the global world. oh, my god. i just thought -- and it's dance and it's drama and it's music in the same building. and it's right here, and that vision i thought of when i moved here that new york is like this, and to me that's juilliard. >> and i'm sure you're not going to keep it in the building. >> no, we're already outside. we've done our version of art strikes on -- opened up a garage door the other day, 66th street. and the fire company came and put their truck in front. and we had a jazz concert. and people were dancing. and it was like this is -- this is -- you know, that utopia that

you opened for that people are engaging. and they're finding ways that it's a part of their lives. and it's the role of the artist, in my mind, not only to perfect their craft, but to take what they have and to give it to others in ways that you can't imagine and you can always add more. be collaborative beyond collaborative, to say, what does this have to do with this? let's overlap these things and see what we can make. and juilliard has, you know -- this is the place that can be. it creates the artists, it gives them the opportunities and sends them out into the world. >> damion, thanks for being with us. appreciate it. and that's it for our program tonight. thanks for watching "amanpour and company" on pbs and join us again next week. now to play us out, a little more hope. daniel hope, that is. ♪

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steves: salzburg's cathedral, constructed in the early 1600s, was one of the first grand baroque buildings north of the alps. it's sunday morning. the 10:00 mass is famous for its music, and today it's mozart. enter the cathedral, and you're immersed in pure baroque grandeur. ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ since it was built in only about 15 years, the church boasts particularly harmonious art and architecture. in good baroque style, the art is symbolic, cohesive, and theatrical, creating a kind of festival procession that leads to the resurrected christ triumphing high above the altar. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ pacem ♪ music and the visual art complement each other.

the organ loft fills the church with glorious sounds as mozart, 250 years after his birth, is still powering worship with his musical genius. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ pacem ♪

>> ooh. pati narrates: sometimes when i travel i find the best experiences are the ones i least expected. loreto, baja california sur. it might not be the busiest destination on the baja peninsula, but it is one of the oldest. the spanish built mision loreto here in 1744. for a tiny fishing village, loreto has a lot to offer. i'm getting a little history. the clams have been made for centuries. >> before the spanish, as a matter of fact the indigenous left their shells. >> pati: a gigantic burrito. woah! and something completely unexpected i found the best pizza in all the baja peninsula. mmm! in my kitchen, i'm inspired by the sea of cortez.