captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, joe biden and robert deniro join the list of devices, as president trump blames the news media for a nation divided. then, money and power-- how saudi arabia's investments bought influence in the united states. plus, one on one with the secthretary of hend human services to discuss the trump administration's plan to lower thedr cost of prescription ugs. andtr, e savings-- financial advice from "mr. money mustache" on how he managed to retire at the agef 30. >> we just did a little bit leso than most pple of our income level and that was enough to sae it. the u.s. tradition is to spend pretty much everything we earn.

we only haveike a 3% savings rate. you just don't do that and you always have a choice. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: th >> and balfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of security.nal peace and at carnegie.org.

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your vbs station frwers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the questions keep coming tonight in a politically- driven mail bomb scare, but the answers remain elusive. it is widely reported a number of the suspect packages were mailed from there. new packages urhave nowd

amna nawaz begins our coverage. >> nawaz: the biggest mass assassination attempt in american political history grew even bigger today, as three more mail bombs were found: two intercepted in delaware, addressed to former vice president joe biden, and a third, sent to actor robert de niro's office in new york. that made 10 bombs found so far, as a national manhunt intensified. ntil a full investigation e takes pl can't tell you how long this will go exactly. we have to be ready for an m eventuality ht be hours, it might be days, it might be weeks. >> nawdi: the packages overed so far were sent to four states and washington, d.c., and addressed to eight different people. senior democratic leaders, former p president biden, former secretary of state clinton, and congresswoman maxine waters. past senior ofcials, former c.i.a. chief john brennan, whose package was sent to cnn, and rmer attorney-general er holder. and prominent supporte of liberal causes-- investor george soros, and deniro.

biden and waters were sent two packages each. etall those taed have been critical of president trump, and all have been insulted or mocked by the president. over the last two days, as images of the packages were published, a pattern emerged. most arrived in padded, manila envelopes, with printed address labels, multiple first-class stamps, and aeturn address for democratic congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz of florida. x-ray images, obtained by abc news, reveal a crudely constructed pipe bomb, made of pvc tubing, a digital clock, sulfur as the explosive, and glass shards as shrapnel. it's unclear if the bombs were actually intended to detonate, and, why none did. new york city's police commissioner was asked if these could've been a hoax. >> n.y.p.d. and f.b.i. taking them seriously. treating them as live devious. see the wabomb squad went into cnn yes.

this has to be taken with the utmost seriousness. as far as a hoax device, we're not viewing is that way. >> naw feature of the bomb sent to john brennan: this sticker. a far-righmeme parodying the isis flag, with a comedian's catch-phrase "gir done." the attempted bombings have been met with bipartisan condemnation, including from the president. at a wisconsin political rally last night, he noted his own measured tone. >> do you see how nice i'm behaving tonight? >> nawaz: but by this morning, he blamed the media for division and anger in the u.s., calling it "so bad" and "hateful." brennan has charged it's the president who has stoked divisions. >> his rhetoric too frequently i think fuels these feelings and sentiments that now are bleeding over in potential acts of violence. >> nawaz: today, press secretary sasaraers pushed back... >> the president is certainly

not responsible for sending suspicious packages to someone no more than bernie sanders was onreble for a supporter of his shooting up a republican baseball field practice last year. e idea that this is at the hands of the president is ably ridiculous. >> nawaz: without a suspect or motive, nerves remained on edge today. and many thought the worst when a u.s. house office building was evacuated, for what turned out to be a false alarm. for the pbs newshour, i'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: in the day's other wall street rebounded fr wednesday's big losses. stocks werbuoyed by strong earnings reports from microsoft, visa and others. the dow jones industrial average gained 401 points to close at 24,984. the nasdaq rose 210 points, nearly 3%, and the s&p 500 added 49. tthere's wot the pentagon will send 800 active duty troops, or more, to the mexican border. that's after president trump

charged that a refugee carvan heading to the u.s. is a "national emergency." reports today said defense secretary james mattis is expected to sign an order for soldiers to back up the border patrol. some 2,000 national guard members are already deployed at the border. in saudi arabia, prosecutors now say the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi was premeditated. he was slain at the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey, earlier this month. today's announcement is the e latest cha the saudi government's version of events. but turkey's foreign minister tsare are still questions to answer. >> ( translat): jamal khashoggi's body still hasn't been found. where is it? they admit that 18 people were involved, but why don't they say where? there is a crime here, b there also a humanitarian situation. the family wants to know and they want toerform their last duty. >> woodruff: human rights watch

reported tay that khashoggi's son and his family have left saudi arabia, bound for the u.s. and, c.i.a. director gina haspel iefed president trump today, after returning from turkey. united nations officials say a saudi coalition air strike in yemen has killed at least 21 civilians. bombs fell late wednesday, on a town south of hodeida, the country's main red sea port. the attack smashed a vegetable processing plant at an outdoor market. ctims included plant workers and at least two children. previous air strikes hit school buses, wedding parties and funerals in yemen. the saudis are battling shiite rebels aligned with iran. a super typhoon slammed the u.s. territory of the northern marianas early today. at least one person was killed. the storm had winds of 180 miles an hour, making it one of the

most powerful to hit the region, about 3,800 miles st of hawaii. the typhoon tore roofs off buildings, ripped up trees and heavily saipan and tinian.of officials say it could take onths to get the power ba back in this country, president olled out a pre-election initiative on drug prices today. the pilot oject calls for medicines given in doctor's offices to be pric according to what they cost in other countries. mr. trump says drug mars often charge more, inside the u.s. we'll hear from alex azar, t secretary of health and human services, later in the program. the president also condemned a "new york times" report today that china and russia have hacked into his calls on unsecured phones. in a series of tweets, he called it "fake news." he also said, "i only use

government phones, and have only one, seldom-used, government cell phone." meanwhile, the chinese dismissed the story as well. >> ( translated ): reading this news report makes me feel that some people in the united states really are sparing no efforts to contend for the oscars for best screenplay. the "new york times" should unders report provides new evidence that it's making fake news. w druff: the times report said white house officials have mrepeatedly ask trump not to use his personal phones. still to c the newshour: what the bomb scares reveal about oudideep political sions. how saudi arabia bought influence in the u.s. ltthe secretary of hand human services about a push to decrease drug prices, and much more.

>> woodruff: the interception of several pipe bombs targeting t prominmocratic leaders has again raised questions about the consequences of vitriolic rhetoric in politics, just as they did when a gunman took aim at republican congressmen playing baseball in washington last yea president trump denounced this week's attacks and what he termed the "language of moral condemnation," but others asked whether mr. trump's own language has stoked polarization. for a deeper look at how we got to this moment, i'm joined by: joanne freeman, a professor of history and american studies at yale university and the author of "the field of blood: violence in congrs and the road to civil war." meand carolyn luker, the executive director of the national institute for civil disurse. and we welcome both of you to the program. carolyn lukensmeyer, to you first, i want to say that your

institute was founded after cformgresswoman gabrielle giffords was shot seven years ago. >> n january 2011 afterthe very contention 2010 election. >> woodruff: so here we are again. we should say we don't know where these pipe bombcame from. they're still very much in the investigative phase. but thise moment els very divisive in our country. what does it compare to, carolyn lukensmeyer? is there a moment in our history that this is similar to? >> well, actually, in our recent history, at least as we get lots of messages from the american public all over the country there was a similar real sense of moral outrage and concern with the images of children in cages on the border and a belief that that actually could lead to physical violence at certain places in the country. then that was intensified even further with the kavanaugh hearings where, no matter what

state or city i win giving speeches, i could literally say to peopleur, whatever yoelief is about the outcome of this, how has this impacted you in terms of thstate of our ability to be together in o communities, and, without exception, people described it as a time when things would be worse. >> woodruff: joanne fiseman, here a time -- how much of our history have we spent divided the way we are today? >>nkell, you know, i tou have to say that there's no constant line. we've had bad moments, we'vead less than bad moments. eeere have been moments when we havevery violent, there have been moments much like the presents that are very divided, very polarized, and i think there are moments when, very much like the present, people realize that the nation is seeminy turning in one direction or another, and the stakes seem higer and, because

of that, i think things become more polarized, americans become diststful in each other. a lot of the things we're seeing now happen. soou can look over the long haul, as an historian, i ca look over the long haul, i think say in the 1790s wheneeopl were debating how democratic the republic would be wa one such moment. obviously the leadup to the civil war when they were talking about slavery. i'd say the 19 60s was another ooone. >>uff: this is so tough to condense into one conversation but, carolyn kensmeyer, how much do words matter? you gave current examples a moment ae,, but, over thow much have words mattered in tthese moments that le some sort of political violence? >> well, people are really social beings, judy, and they respond to the signals that they're given, particularly for pele who they lookp to, and our elected political officials are amongst tho people set the norms in the country.

wor really matter. every time any one of us speak, we haveacan ion the people who are listening in terms of how they perceive things and the actions they take. in the 2016 election, we actually saw this connection between the use of demonizing language of african-americans, muslim, women, reporters, and watched in rallies where that turned into violent action. so the link between using words that incite people to emotional reactive stances, and the moves to actual physical violence, it's a link that's been well established over time. >> joanne freeman, how has this country gottenhrough moments like this? what has it taken to bring the country back to a pla where we could, if not alle friends with one another, at least tolerate people with different views? >> well, for one thing, and i think that's obvioly as you

suggested hard to condense all answen, but part of t to that question has to do with the actual political process and ntthe investof americans into that process. if you go all the way back to the foundin of the things that the founders thought that they were doing that would rely have lastingalue was that they were creating a process, a set press of government that, no matter what happened down the road, the nation could turn to it. so i think elections areart of that process, supreme court decisions are pa of that process, and some of the events in the past that have gone on a difficult trail sometimes really it is an election or a decision that, as much as it might be disliked, americans have invested themselves in the process enough to accept that f swer. so i think partat that does, of course, is set up the next few elections, the one that's coming right down the iaad and the presidentone after that. the meaning of those will be very profound. >> are there lessons either in

y, carolyn lukensmeyer, or more recently that give us some sort of road m to how we work our way through this? >> well, when there is this big a gap between how political leadership aredu cting themselves and what ordinary americans really know in their hearts and mindar the base values of our country, which really are about how we can work across our differences and finmm ground, then we've often seen in history where there is a enlink bet single enlightened leader martin luther kingmend alcivil rights mot that never could have happened without literally millions of americans shifting their views, i think we'rathat moment again where we can't count, at the moment, on our current elected officials to shift thiis rhet but what we see across the country is very hopeful, judy. americans of both parties, red states, blue states, purple states, they're atually coming

together in one-on-one conversations, small group conversations and setting up the conditions, how do we get past this divide? we want to be pasthis divide. >> woodruff: maybe it's coming from the ground level up. quickly, joanne freeman, examples in history o f leaders who have led us out of a period of terrible position. >> well, i mean, you could go all the way back and say that the first real contested presidential election fro 1800, thomas jefferson, that electile happened, pehought there might even be civil warfa because it was so fraught. jefferson came out of that and said we're all federalists and americans who stand back and unit, and that was the thing to do at the moment. i like the sense of hope in that. take encouragement, in as much

as it seems that people are it politically violent, i te encouragement from that. >> woodruff: we are in a difficult moment for all of us and i think it helps to put it in perspective. joanne freeman, thank you carolyn lukensmeouer. >> thankor having us. . >> woodruff: we return to the murder of jamakhashoggi, and the roiled relations between the united states and saudi aria. those ties are longstanding and important to both nations. they're alsoucrative. but as nick schifrin reports, those financial ties are also now under great strain. >> schifrin: when the president and his wife made saudi arabia their first foreign visit, the royal court treated trump as a royal, providing a lavish

welcome, and a garish introduction to a grand and golden ballroom, where saudi king salman bestowed one of the kingdom's highest civilian honors, and described the u.s. and saudi relationship as tied by shared interests, and military cooperation. and president trump danced to the same drum, describing a strategic alliance thanks to a lucrative arms deal he called a windfall. h dreds of billions of dollars into the united states and jobs, jobs, jobs. >> schifrin: president trump has tedefended the arms deal d haestions over how to respond to journalist jamaloghi's murder, and despite ever growing claims of economic impact. al>> we'reng about over 40,000 jobs in the united states. you know, you' talking about 500,000 jobs. i would prefer that we don't as retribution, canceli $110 billion worth of work, which means do0,000 jobs. t want to lose one million jobs. i don't want to lose $110 billion in terms of investment, but it's really $450 billion if

you include other than mility. >> it's sort of the mother of exaggerations, even by donald trump's standards. >> schifrin: william hartung is the director of the arms and security project at the center for inteational policy. he says the real dollar figure for the trump administration is 14.5 billion, including for m-1 tanks, chinook helicopters, and artillery. but even those are only signed offer and acceptance letters, not contracts. most of the 110 billion number comes from deals negotiated by previous administrations, aincluding for f-nd modern american naval ships. ted a 13.5 billion dollar missile defense sorder hasn't actually been placed. >> so many of the deals are enspeculative, and things are put on the table that don't happen. >> schifrin: and as for the clbout creating jobs... >> i think his jobs claims are absurd, to put it mildly. but also military procurement is the least effective way to create jobs. some ll those jobs

e in saudi arabia, assembling us equipment. >> schifrin: but even if the arms sales and jobs numbers aren't as high as the president claims, that does not mean saudi arabia has less influence. and that influence was by design, a started more than 40 years ago, when a president met a king. >> back in the '70s, under nixon and then ford, the u.s. and saudis worked together to s tegrate their two econom ensure each was mutually dependent on the other, and the saudis on the united states. >> schifrin: racl brunson is the author of thicker than oil, america's uneasy partnership with saudi arabia. she says ever since national security advisor henry kissinger 19went to riyadh in , the u.s. has opened its doors to saudi investment, and eventually that road led to washington. from 2016 to 2017, public filings show saudi payments to lobbyists almost quadrupled, from 7 to 27 million dollars. and prominent think tanks have accepted millions of saudi

dollars, less for buying shinfluence than ensuring ared interests, bronson says. today, the u.s. has made saudi arabia the center of its middle east strategy, with a new combating extremism center, cjoint efforts bat iran and its use of regional proxies, such as hezbollah and gain saudi support for a hypothecial israeli-palestinian peace process. >> those geopolitical realities are the basis for these economic ties. mothe saudis don't need ouy. they have money. what they want is american business leaders and cultural aders coming to the kingdom, they want american leaders to welcome them into the community of nations. >> schifrin: that led to crown prince mohammad bin salman's ho2017 american road coffee with michael bloomberg, chit-chat with facebook's mark zuckerberg, a walk with google co-founder sergey brin. mbs, as he's known, poured investments into companies like

uber, and is now startup companies' largest source of capital. >> he was hailed behind closed doors as a combination of abraham lincoln and elon musk. >> schifrin: sam blatteis was google's persian gulf policy director, and now advises technology companies. he says khashoggi's murder damaged mohammad bin salman's reputation for some companies. >> but there's a whole universe of tech companies where business is business as usual. >> schifrin: he says saudi money is too large to disappear. and defense cooperation will continue. t be that as it may, rachel n bronys the historic saudi investment machine has tak a hit. >> they want to be associated with blue chip, big name companies. and those are the very companies that are beginning to back away or that are backing away at this moment. and yes, they are go pay a price for that.

>> schifrin: and despite all previousriticism of saudi arabia through the years, that price, this time, would be paid for the death of one man. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: a view of thupcoming midterm elections from four new jersey women. and mr. money mustache on how he was able to retire at age 30. the president's decision to try to lower some drug price through medicare is the biggest ramove yet by the adminion to address the high cost of medicine. it is the latest in a series of policy changes from his administration this year. and it comes less than two weeks before the mid-ter as health care has become a major issue on the campaign trail. william brangham has our interview with the preside's

point man on this. >> brangham: president trump announced several parts to this plan, but here's the fundamental idea: medicare would change how fmuch it paor some drugs that seniors get at doctors' offices and hospitals. the new payments would be based on a benchmark index of what csome other developntries pay for the same drugs. tthis is all part of a pi project for medicare "part b," as it's called. it would be phased in over five years. most of the other prescription drugs covered by medicare, known as medicare "part d," wouldot be changed by this. rnment would also try to change doctors' incentives tied to alex azar is the secretary of health and human services who will oversee all of this and he joins me now. welcome. >> thank you, good to be here. sohe president saivery big announcement today, he referred to this as a revolutionary change. can you just explain the basics of wha this does?

>> you bet. so just this morning we released data showing that, our medicare program, where we pay for these infusion drugs -- these are the high-cost drugs that physicians or hospitals administer to you --e are paying 180% compared to what europe and japan are paying for these very same drugs and that can often be as high as 500% higher than what they're getting. why different? cae pharma is voluntarily giving these other countries omwithrable economic power vastly better deals. we get a deal pnd 6% markup on the top. we are bringing competition toy the system referencing foreign polices pharma is giving enefit tobringing the the medicare and medicare beneficiary who pay 20% of the cost of the drugs out of pockets. >> you're saying if the europeans and japanese can pay x, we want a similar

>> that's right. because in this part of the isprogram, thi government medicare program. we set a ice for it. it's just a really stupid price. it is the list price plus 6%, and we're saying let's iroduce some kind of competitive market-based other way ofan payingwhat better way is there than to look at what thes very pharma companies are willing to sell their product for to other similarly placed countries and use that as a referenca >> what abouoncern that i have heard that if we start asking the pharmaceutical companies to do this that they're going to all the other ndeuropean countriesay, hey, we're not giving you such a good deal anymore becausehey know we're going to ask for a similar price, so that the europeans and the japanese and everyone else might be asked to pay more and that could drive prices up here. >> we hope they finally go to

these other economic powers and say pay your fair share. they have been free riding off american investment and innovation and research all these years. we ae producing most to have the profits f pharmaand it's time for others to pay their share. >> this pace for drugs under medicare part d that are the expensive drugs the docr gives to you in the hospital. it doesn't cover the drugs we buy in a cvs or walgreen's. asked about the issue of which category of drugs is covered. >> it's a step in the right direction there's a lot more to do. we believe strongly we should be negotiating over dg prices, our government should. in this case, the trump administration has decided to outsource negotiation the other countries. they're gointo negotiate and we're going to use the prices they arrive at. i don't understand why we don't do it ourselves.

>> what do you make of thatm? critic why don't we use the power of medicare to not just go after plan b but all pharmaceutical drugs? >> i have great respect for vid and his mission to bring down drug prices for consumers. let me start withhat. he's not correct in this case. dicare part d, the program where the citizen -- senior citizen goes to the pharmacy, that's paid for under individual select plans. the are the largest middle man plans in america. they pull together tens of millions of lives. they negotiates goodor better discounts than europe and japan do. so we've created a type of ecmpetitive marketplace there thates benefits for our patients and the program by using that power. the only way, doing what david suggests, would cause us to get lower prices, is if we created a

single uniform national formulary or list of drugs and excluded access to drugs for hoerica's seniors to gete prices. my friend peter orszag, barack obama's omb director, said the same thing. we want the patient in th center, we want choice of which medicines peopleave acces to. >> the pharmaceutical industry, as you might imagine, pucked on this today. they said this plan will hurt their ability to do research and development, they said patients would get hurt, their lead trade group said today this plan would "jeopardize access to medicines for seniors and patients with disabilities with most devastating conditions such as cancer, rheumatoid arthritis and otr auto immune diseases." >> you know what the president called for toot at h.h.s. when was he announced the plan is wd woing down over the course of five years reimbursement of these products by approximately 30% on average. that will still leve us paying 126% of the what the europeans

d japanese are paying. i don't think pharma companies are complaining that freh, the germans, the british, the japanese are not having access to their dgs at even lower prices. so i don't get it. it's the same oldkiired tng point. this plan protects patient efcess, it changes nothing on the medicare bt for people, they have full access to the medicines today and tomorrow and the day after, and they get to be in the' drivers seat. >> some people have made note of the timing of all of this. we are just on the eve of at midterm eln where the republicans are getting hammered on healthcare issues, the cost of drugs, pre-existing conditions. did politics have anything to do with the timing of this rollout today? >> not one bit. this is something we started working on many months ago. this is an over 60-page speck on detailed specifications on a complex model of completely rewiring how drugs are paidor

in medicare part b including removing physician incentives and how drugs with even bought and distributed in th system. we got this plan out as soon as we could because my boss wants action yterday on drug prices. as soon as it was ready, it went out the door and not a minute later, not a minute sooner. >> he seemed to make that very clear today in hiannouncement. i'd like to shift gears for just a second. earlier this week, a memo leaked out of your department that indicated that you are interested in a more rigid classification of gender in america as male and female and that men who are born with -- born as boys and women as women ver change over te and has you've heard this me transgender groups furious and if you go forward with this you are in essenceriting them out of existence legally. is this your plan and why do you think it is important? >> let me just say we believe

strongly all america are deserving of respect and dignity that is core to h.h.s.'s mission to protect and defend the health and well being of all americans. i would caution, do not believe everything you read in the "new york times." >> so are you saying that there is not a current plato redefine gender? >> i am saying that we are commitd to enforcng the laws as passed by congress, including laws that protect against discrimination in healthcare and human services. to this particular issue, we are actually subject to a court order and areollowing tha court order. >> i mean, the president, when asked about this the day after e memo came out, he said we were looking at this. i'm juscuous to as what would be the rationale for it. your colleague at the head of the c.d.c. said he seemed to imply this would create stigma for transgender peoplel in america and hurt not help. >> as i said,om we aretted to protecting dignity and

respect for all people especily in our health and human services programs. we'ralso committed to implementing the law that congress actually passes, sccluding laws on mination, and we are, with this matter, subject to a court order and are implementing the program consistent with the court order. >> alex azar, secretary of health and human services. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: the countdown clock is winding down with less than two weeks until the dterms. both parties are making their final pushes to rally their bases before election day. but control of congress could rest on one key demographic: suburban women. that's true in new jersey where lisa desjardins recely sat down with a group of women who want their voices heard and

their votes to matter. i am here in the iconic diner in new jersey outside of new yo city, with four women who plan to vote in this year's midterm elens. michelle rogers is a stay-at-home mom with three so, lives in randolph, new jersey. uyen khuong is-h a stay-e mom of three in madison, new jersey. marilyn mclaughlin is a avel agent in morristown, new jersey, and a mom of four. karen arakelian lives in mottville, new jersey, and has two children. ere is the o of several furniture and design stores around the state. one reason wu brought l together is because, you know, this year there has been much talk about women, and you are seeing suburban women, in particular, as a key force in th election. you're shaking your head know. what is most important to you >> the economy, new jersey's

economy, which it's unaffordable for us and people will say, ay, you're upper middle class, it's unaffordable for our poor. it's just unaffordable on all levels. i feel like we need to get fto the bottomt and find out how to alleviate our tax issues, our tax problem. >> you're a business owner. what do you think? >> i think that theepublin tax plan that was just started is causing a lot of good things to happen in e country and in the state. i mean, we have a very mixed populatinew jersey. we have people who make under $40,000, and we have people that make over four dollars million. so the people making over four dollars million will be paying more taxes. people like some of my family, they're going to be saving a lot of tax dollars if year. so i'm seeing the money being saved and spent and i think it's good. i think it's a good ing. >> and another economic issue we hear about this year is

healthcareal do you have care concerns in your own lives, the cost of healthcare? michele my -- michele? >> i think it's an issue. they're wanting to repeal affordable care act yet there's not an adequate replacement. >> karen? i employ o people and most of them are on healthcare. i saw the premiums skyrocket after obamacare came in. i dot see what obamacare has done fopeople in this area. my company pays the deductible so we can even afford to have healthcare. that's not a plan. >> wt is the plan. i don't know. we have to work on it. >> you eliminate the affordable dcare act, before yo that, maybe try to fix it. why throw the baby out wit bath water. make efforts to fix it. >> i throw it agree. the problem with that is the democrats don't want to hear anything that president trump wants to do.

ue>> i don't think that's t's a fact. it's not a suggestion, it's a fact. they have to not be sotaunch on if president trump suggests it, we say no. they did that ca kavanaugh, they turned down the candidate before he was even announced.ha >>if any impact did the brett kavanaugh hearings have on you? >> scared me. in what way? t could be my son, any anrson of power that, out of the blueccusation can come out and ruin their life. >> i'm with you because i have four sons, and one of them even said to me, you know, mom, in high school, there are moments for evybody in high school, and anybody in that room that was interrogating probably had someooing in their high s career or time that they weren't very happy about. so some of the questions were ridiculous, they were political. >> you are also a mother of a

son. >> three sons. yeah, and my perspective on it would be, a i actually know someone inur group, our immediate friends' group w their son was fsely accused. so i see what you're saying, but i thk -- i'm not fearful for my son because i know that the statistics are that, when you look at the number of sexual assault accusations and how many are not reported because they'rf id that they won't be believed and they don't report it, the number of false accusations is miniscule, less than 1% or 1%. so i'm not worried about my son, i'm not, because i feel that -- i'm more worried about if i had a daughter, i would worry about my daughter. i would worry about her being believed and heard, that would a larger concern. >> you have a daughter, go ahead. >> iave a daughter. t i want to get back to what karen was saying.

what i want us to as people to step away with is, when a trump plan or trump nominee comes up, i don't want us to assume that the other side is already against it. i mean, there's enough -- there's enough open mindedness to take a look at iectse, for me, i'm a registered democrat now, but, for sure, with everything that i look at, i'm likely wantingve to s it because i love this country. for me, the way our country is, it starts with thleader at the top, i feel that he is eroding the pillars of our democracy, and that's why i feel like i to do ino what i can order to take back the house, to provide checks andalances. that's what i want. i want checks and balances. >> i just wanted to say that i real loved what you were saying because, for me, i throatily agree, i don't like that you're either with me or you're stupid, or you're with me or you're wrong, because i think ta lot of what we'reing as fact is opinion, it is opiniont,

and k it does start at the top, that that's my -- that's been my problem since 2016 is that i feel like our leader, when we have a fractured country, our leader has pep rallies where he's calling me basian idiot, he's calling me evil. rii think thating our country together will have to start at the grassroots because we're not getting it from the top. i thin sit needs tort at these tables and around the dinner table and in our communities because we're not getting that kumbaya from the top, we're getting the opposite. >> i want to ask you to talk about the president. >> i thought our country needed to go in a different direction. i thought we were going in an entirely crazy direction a it was illegal immigration, national security, the economy, we weren't really growing, we were meandering ang, and i felt like a lot of voices

weren't being heard. so i thought he was about hge and ch he's not exactly the hope and change personality you want, he's not my type of but if we could look behind and see where we are a couple of yea later, i think we're heading in a better direction. i fow there's a lot o divivesness in the country, but i think a lot of it stems from this crazy anger that he actually won, and, you know, i know he won and i know a rot of people don't like him and i know he says a lot of offensive things and i wish he didn't and i wish sometimes he would be a lot more presidential but that' not who he is. but do i believe he loves the country -- >> my last question, in a few words, what values do you want in leader, what you want them to be? >> honesty, truthfulness. moral, ethical. integrity. kindness, t for others. i want somebody smart that he big picture and that

will work across party lines to get things done for the country, and i think that we have that, and a lot of people don't recognize it. >> i will almost agree. (laughter) >> certainly on what you're looking for. . certainly agree >> whether we have it or not we probably don't agree. hank you enough. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. so much. woodruff: now, a look at those who are saving early and reving frugally in order to reoung. our economics correspondent, paul solman has the story. it's part of our weekly series "making sense" which airs every thursday. >> reporter: pete adenlmost always leaves his longmont, elcolorado home on two whe instead of four. it's a lot cheaper.

for seven years pete, a.k.a. mr. money mustache, has been preaching parsimony on his popular blog. and he sure practices . how much do you spend a year? >> we dot budget but it seems to aays end up around $25 to $27,000 per year for a famy of three. >> reporter: plus health insurance, in the low 30s. adeney and his followers, known as mustachians, are key players in the f.i.r.e. or "fire" movement: "financial independence retire early." and we do mean early. adeney and his wife left their engineering jobs in 2005. >> so we we 30 at the time. >> reporter: mark and sina ebersole no longer have to work either. and how old are you? >> 37. >> 35. >> reporter: michael and ellen robinson, both 38, stopped working full-time two years ago. >> i had this concept that saving as much as we could as early as we could would allow compound interest more time to do the work. >> reporter: how do they all do

? adeney saved 50 to 75% of his income over nine years as an engineer. >> we just did a little bit less than most people of our income level and that was enough to save it. the u.s. tradition ito spend prettyeverything we earn. we only have like a 3% savings rate. you just don't do that and you always>>ave a choice. ow much did you wind up saving? >> today would be about $1.1 millioor a little bit less. that was what we decided was enough to liven forever. >> reporter: adeney espouses the so-chiled "4% rule" oblog: if you salt away and invest 25 times your annual spending in stocks you can then withdraw 4% of yvings each year of retirement. but isn't the market risky? >> put the money in the broad economy through index funds where you own thousands of companies, very conservative and it's gonna fluctuate just because the stock maet fluctuates, but if you're just taking a small amount each year

you don't care at all about that. like the stock market crashes you're still taking your little 4%, the stock market goes up, you're still only taking 4%, so that averages out over time. >> reporter: don't spend money on things you don't actually need, he says. and don't drive so much. >> that's my biggest winning secret to a wealthy life, is just get out of the car a little bit. driving is way, way more expensive than what most people thin most people think about gasoline as the cost of driving. really it's about five times higher than that. so pretend gas is $15 a gallon, then you're starting to get an estimate of how expensive driving really is to you. >> reporter: due to depreciation, maintenance, insurance. adeney saves so ecause he's also a do-it-yourselfer. take his house. >> the one that we live in now i built almost entirely from >> reporter: so you put in your own plumbing? >> yeah. >> reporter: you did your own flooring? >> yep, that part of a house. >> reporter: you did your own electricity? >> i would do my own hearts surgery if it fe.

>> reporter: last year adeney renovated a dited building on longmont's main street to create a coworking space for fellow mustachians, and added "" tiny house"onference room. >> it was just $3000 in materials partially from craigslist and then we get a dedicated office that's year- round, insulated. >> reporter: on top of the tiny house, nourishment that costs even less. >> i'm not an apple expert b just call these delicious, free apples. >> reporter: delicious, free! ha. >> so cheers! >> reporter: cheers! >> one of the ways we save money is by only shopping at thrift stores. >> reporter: adeney has acolytes aplenty. 38 year-old retired teacher ellen robinson's trick: don't buy new anything. >> so like, this is from the , and you can buy that for close to $8 instead of buying it for $50. >> reporter: as for the furniture in the home ellen shares with husband l and their two young children... >> pretty much all hand-me- downs. ow the couch was a hand me from my grandparents.

these pieces of furniture right here were hand-me-downs from when the office that michael worked in had to downsize. the lamp a friend from my work gave that to me. >> reporter: the coffee table? >> this is something i bought at a resale shop. >> reporter: it will not surprise you that the family car is also second hand. >> we bought this 2007 prius used for $8000 about four years ago. and it's pushing about 195,000 miles but it still works just fine for our family. >> reporter: onen feature of the fire movement: credit rds, used strategically. >> so we get 6% on groceries if we use this card. 6% back, 3% on gas and 3% on department stores. >> reporter: michael, a former salesman who still enjoys putting in one to two days a week as a consultant, says the family could spendess than the $44,500 they spent last year. >> there's some cushion in our budget we're not down to the o ne right now, by any means. >> reporter:u feel at all deprived? >> no, i do not feel deprived. do you feel deprived?

>> no. >> i am not above the temptati mall, i am just as drawn to all those things as anybody else. but i just have a dialogue in my head about the decision to not, very intentionally n, buy those things. and also, just very intentionally not going to the .a >> reporter: restaurant visits are instead, the retired robinsons spend their ample free time .ooking and eating at home with their ki but wait a second, aren't there many americans whoy don't earn enough to save anything, let alone the amounts pete adeney promotes? >> i'm sure there are, but i also would say that almost everybody can do better and the lower your income level, the greater the benefit is of figuring out where your money is going. so the median income is $60,000 or whatever in the u.s. for a household and what's the best selling vehicle? -150 pickup00-plus truck. that's the problem is we all scale everything up just a bit

more than we can afford. >> reporter: but clearly not everyone cwhat adeney has done. even in "retirement" adeney has earned enough from his blog that he doesn't need to stick to his $25,000 a year budget. but s, does, because, he argue cutting consumption isn't just aboucost-saving. >> i would say it's immoral to drive a six-wheel esel pickup truck compared to riding a bike or just picking the most practical car for whatever your nes are. >> reporter: immoral because it's polluting the atmosphere? eah, it's because of your effect on other people and other living things. so like you're gonna consume a lot more metal and a lot more fossil fuels just toarry your tiny self around. eporter: adeney does have followers who can't afford to elash away at mustachian l michelle jackson turned out for a pop-up business school held at mr. mustache's co-working space to learn how to earn more so she could save more and retire early-ish. >> there are many people who

woul to attain that, but maybe they have to pay off debt first in ordert to the point to invest and focus on those kinds of things. >> reporter: how much do you owe right now? >> the amount that i'm focused on now minus the students loans is about $11,000. >> reporter: and even for debt- free higher earners like mark and sina ebersole,ing financially independent began as a heavy lift. fo it was pretty hard at the beginninme. paring it down, and saving, saving, saving, saving. that was a very foreign concept for me. >> reporter: did you like it? >> it felt a little bit like are we wasting away our goodears? >> reporter: ten years later the former dance instructor is grateful that she and mark, an engineer, work only when they want to. >> we're working on opening a lillroom dance hall. >> it' a ballroom dance studio but more social focused. >> reporter: ellen robinson relishes the reward of scrimping that drives the "fire" men and women seeking financia independence. >> it's not necessarily about

not working, but it's the freedom that comes with not having to work. right now my kids are four and two and i'm home with them all day, everyday and not worrying about whether or not we can buy our groceries. >> reporter: as for mr. money mustache himself... >> the goal is just to live a happy existed maybe leave the world better than when you started. so i've done smallesses like carpentry and a lot of dad work has been my biggest occupation, a bit of writing, some music. i still have another 55 years of retirement to go and i'll let you know how that turns out. >> reporter: ands long as i can, i'll be all ears. this is econics correspondent paul solman at mr. money mustache headquarters in longmont, colorado.

>> woodruff: now a program note: with the mid-term elections just days away and several political contn the state of florida still very close, on monday we will present b florida: a special edition of the pbs newshour anchored from tampa. >> campaigning is almost done. stop sanctuary cities. can the democrats take the house? >> i am pro uon, i was a member of the union. >> will publicans hold the senate? >> some of the policies that he has established have been very s good. >> iss a collision course in one state. >> but at the enthe day, real change is brought from voting. >> a special edition of the "pbs newshour," battleground florida only on pbs. oodruff: on the newshour online right now, accumulating human-made debris in space threatenthe lives of astronauts and the functionality

of essential satellites. on our web site,sible solution pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. eren us online and again tomorrow evening when mark shields and david brooks break down the final days to the midterms. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> kevin. .> kevin! >> kev >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> and with the ongog support of these institutions

>> this program was made by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ hello, everyone. and welcomeo "amanpour and company." we are swn the intergalactic connection between space and our military. plus, a violin performance by onef the world's best. daniel hope tel me how his family histor brought him to music. and peirouetting his way to the top. how damian wetzel b ame the president of new york'sgi presous juilliard school. ♪ uniworld is