captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, joe biden and robert deniro join the list of targets sent explosive devices, as president trump blames the news media for a n natvided. then, money and power-- how saudi arabia's investments bought influence in the united states. plus, one on one with the secumretary of health and services to discuss the trump administration's plan to lower the ct of prescription drugs. andng, extreme savis-- financial advice from "mr. money mustache" on how he managed to retire at the age of 30. >> we just did a little bit less than most people of our income level and that was enough to save it. the u.s. tradition is to spend pretty much everything we earn.

we only have like a 3% savings rate. you just don't do that and you always have a choice. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ed>> and by the al. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supportingnnovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org.

>> and with the ongoing support of tse institutions: and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the questions keep coming tonight in a politically- driven mail bomb scare, but the answers remain elusive. it is widely reported a number of the suspect packages were mailed from there. new packages have now turned

amna nawaz begins our coverage. >> nawaz: the biggest mass assassination attempt in american political history grew even bigger today, as three more mail bombs were found: tetwo epted in delaware, addressed to former vice president joe biden, and a third, sent actor robert de ro's office in new york. that made 10 bombs found so far, as a national manhunt intensified. >> until a full investigation takes place we can't tell you how long this will go exactl we have to be ready for any eventuality it might be hours, it might be days, it might be weeks. >> nawaz: the packages discovered so far were sent to four states and washington, d.c., and addressed to eight dierent people. senior democratic leaders, former preside obama, and vice president biden, former secretary of state clinton, and congresswoman maxi waters. past senior officials, former c.i.a. chief john brenna whose package was sent to cnn, and former attorney-general eric holder. and prominent supporters of liberal causes-- investor george sos, and deniro.

biden and waters were sent two packages each. avall those targeted he been critical of president trump, and all have been insulted or mocked by the president. over the last two days, as images of the packages were published, a pattern emerged. most arrived in padded, manila envelopes, with printed address labels, multiple first-class stamps, and a return address for democratic congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz of florida. x-ray images, obtained by abc , neveal a crudely constructed pipe bomb, made of pvc tubing, a digital clock, sulfur as the explosive, and glass shards as shrapnel. it's unclear if the bombs were acally intended to detonate, and, why none did. new york city's police commissioner was asked if these bcould'n a hoax. >> n.y.p.d. and f.b.i. taking them seriously. seating them as live devices. see the way our boad went into cnn yesterday.

this has to be taken with the utmost seriousness. as far as a hoax device, we're not viewing is that way. >> nawaz: one stinguishing feature of the bomb sent to john brennan: this sticker. a far-right meme parodying the isis flag, with a codian's catch-phrase "git r done." the attempted bombings have been met with bipartisan condemnation, including from the esident. at a wisconsin political rally last night, he noted his own measured tone. >> do you see how nice i'm behaving tonight? >> nawaz: but by this morning, he blamed the media for division and anger in the u.s., calling it "so bad" and "hateful." brennan has charged it's the president who has stoked divisions. >> his rhetoric too frequently i think fuels these feelings and sentiments that now are bleeding over in potential acts of violence. >> nawaz: today, pss secretary sarah sanders pushed back... >> the president is certainly

not responsible for sending suspicious packages to someone no more than bernie sanders was e responsir a supporter of his shooting up a republican baseball field practice last yearid th that this is at the hands of the president is absolutely ridiculous. sp>> nawaz: without a sut or motive, nerves remained on edge matoday. and thought the worst when a u.s. house office building was evacuate to be a false alarm. for the pbs newshour, i'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, wall street rebounded from stocks were buoyed by strong earnings reports from microsoft, visa and others. the dow jones industrial average gained 401 points to close at 24,984. the nasdaq rose 210 points, nearly 3%, and the s&p 500 added 49. there's word that the pentagon will send 800 active duty troops, or more, to the mexican border. that's after president trump

charged that a refugee carvan heading to the u.s. is a "national emergency." reports today said defense secretary james mattis is expected to sign an order for soiers to back up the border patrol. some 2,000 national guard members are already deployed at the border. in saudi say the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi was emeditated. he was slain at the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey, rlr this month. today's announcement is the slatest change in tdi government's version of events. but turkey's foreign minister resays theretill questions to answer. >> ( translated ): jamal khashoggi's body still hasn't been found. ere is it? they admit that 18 people were involved, but why don't they say where? there is a crime here, but ther is ahumanitarian situation. the family wants to know and they want to performheir last duty. >> woodruff: human rights watch

reported today thakhashoggi's son and his family have left saudi arabia, bound for the u.s. and, c.i.a. director gina haspel briefed president trump today, after returning from turkey. united nations officials say a saudi coalition air strike in yemen has killed at least 21 civilians. bombs fell late wednesday, on a of hodeida, the country's main red sea port. the attack smashed a vegetable processing plant at an outdoor market. imviincluded plant workers and at least two children. previous air strikes hit school buses, wedding parties and funerals in yemen. the saudis are battling shiite rebels aligned with iran. a super typhoon slammed the u.s. tterritory northern marianas early today. lst one person was killed. the storm had winds of 180 miles an hour, making it one of the

most powerful to hit the region, about 3,800 miles west o hawaii. the typhoon tore roofs off buildings, ripped up trees and heavily damagesathe islands of an and tinian. officials say it could take months to get the power back on. , back in this countesident trump rolled out a pre-election initiative on drug prices today. the pilot projeccalls for medicines given in doctor's offices to be priced accding to what they cost in other countries. en. trump says drug makers o charge more, inside the u.s. we'll hear from alex azar, the secretary of health and human services, later in the program. the president also condemned a "new york times" report today that china and russia have hacked into his calls on unsecured phones. in a series of twes, he called it "fake news." he also said, "i only use

government phones, and have only one, seldom-used, government ce phone." meanwhile, the chinese dismissed e ory as well. >> ( translated ): reading this news report makes me feel that some people in the united states rereallyparing no efforts to contend for the oscars for best screenplay. the "new yk times" should understand that this kind of report provides new evidence s that iking fake news. >> woodruff: the times report said white house officials have repeatedly asked mr. trump not to use his personal phones. still to come on the newshour: eawhat the bomb scares r about our deep political divisions. how saudi arabia bought influence in the u.s. e secretary of health an human services about a push to decrease drug prices, and much more.

>> woodruff: the interception of several pipe bombs targeting crprominent deic leaders has again raised questions about the nsuences of vitriolic rhetoric in politics, just as they did when a gunman took aim at republican congressmen playing baseball in washington president trump denounced this week's attacksnd what he termed the "language of moral condemnation," but others asked whether mr. trump's own language has stoked polarization. for a deeper look at how we got to this moment, i'm joined by: joanne freeman, a professor of history and american studies at yale university and the author of "the field of blood: violence in congress anthe road to civil war." tand carolyn lukensmeye executive director of the national institute for civil dseisco and we welcome both of you to the program. carolyn lukensmeyer, to you first, i want to say that your

institute was founded after esformer conwoman gabrielle giffords was shot seven years ago. >> in january 2011 after the veryontention 2010 election. >> woodruff: so here we are again. we should say wenoon'tw where these pipe bombs came from. they're still very much in t investigative phase. but this moment feels verydi sive in our country. what does it compared to, carolyn lukensmeyer? is there aoment in o history that this is similar to? >> well, actually, in our recent history, at least as we get lots of messages frothe american public all over the country, there was a r similarl sense of moral outrage and concern with the images of children in cages othe border and a belief that that actually could lead t physical violence at certain places in the country. then that was intensified even further with the kavanaugh hearings where, no matter what

state or city i was in giving speech, i could literally say to people, whatever your belief is about the outcome of this, how has this impacted you in terms of the state of our ability er be toge in our communities, and, without exception, people described it as a time when tngs would be worse. >> woodruff: joanne freema n, is thea time -- how much of our history have we spent divided the way we areay t >> well, you know, i think you have to sayhat there's no constant line. we've had bad moments, we've had less than bad moments. there have been moments when we have been ve violent, there have been moments much like the divided,that are very very polarized, and i think there are moments when, very much like the present, people e realat the nation is seemingly turning in one direction or another, and the stakes seem higher and, because

of that, i think things become more polarized, americans become distrustl in each other. a lot of the things we're seeing now happen. so you cank ler the long haul, as an historian, i can look over the long haul, i think say in the 1790s when people were debating how democratic the republic would be was one such moment. o theusly the leadup t civil war when they were talking about slavery. i'd say t 19 60s was another one. >> woodruff: this is so tough to condens intone conversation but, carolyn lukensmeyer, how much do words matter? you gave currenples a moment ago, but, over time, how much have words mattered in these moments that led to some sort of political violence? >> well, people are really social beings, judy, and they respond to the signals that they're given, particularly for people who they look up to, and r elected political officials are amongst the people who set the norms in the country.

words really matter. every time any one us speak, we have an impact on the people who are listening in terms of how they perceive things and the actions they take. in the 2016 election, we actually saw this connection between the use of demonizing language of rican-americans, muslim, women, reporters, and watched in rallies where that turned into violent action. do the link between using w that incite people to emotional reactive stances, and the moves to actual physical violence, t it's a linkt's been well established over time. >> joanne freeman, how has this country gotten through moments like this? what has it taken to bring the country back to a place where we could, if not all be friends with one another, at least tolerate people with different wviews? l, for one thing, and i think that's obviously as you

suggested hard to condense all is in, but part of the answer to that question has to do with the actual political process and the investment of americans into that process. if you go all the way back to fthe founding, one the things that the founders thought that they were doing that would really huee lasting vas that they were creating a process, a set proce of government that, no matter what happened down the road, the nation could turn tot. so i think elections are part of that process, emsucourt decisions are part of that process, and some of the events in the past that have gone on a difficult trail sometimes really it is an election or a decision that, as much as it might be disliked, americans have invested themselves in the process enough to accept that answer. so i think part of what does, of course, is set up the next few ections, the one that's coming right down the road and the presidential one after that. the meaning of those will be very profound. >> are there lessons either in

chistorolyn lukensmeyer, or more recently that give us some sort of road map to how work our way through this? >> well, when there is this big a gap between how political leadership aren conducg themselves and what ordinary americans really know in their hearts and minds are the base values of our country, which really are about he wn work across our differences and findo commond, then we've often seen in history where there is a link between a single enlightened leader martin luther king and civil rights movemen that never could have happened without literally millions of americans shifti their views, i think we're at that moment again where can't count, at the moment, on our current elected officials to shift thi rhetoric. but what we see across the country is very hopeful, judy. americans of both parties, red states, blue states, purple stat, they're atually coming

together in one-on-one conversations, small group conversations and setting up the conditions, how do we gt past this divide? we want to be past this divide. >> woodruff: maybe it's coming from the ground level up. quickly, joanne freeman, examples in history of leaders owho have led ut of a period of terrible. positio >> well, i mean, you could go all the way back and say the first real contested presidential election from 1800, thomas jefferson, that election happened, people thohere might even be civil warfare because it was so fraught. jefferson came out of that and said we're all federalists and americans who stand back and unitand that was the thingto do at the moment. i like the sense of hope in that. i take encouragement, in as much

as it seems that people are iten politically vi i take encouragement from that. >> woouff: we are in a difficult moment for all of us and i think it helps to t it in perspective. rejoannean, thank you carolyn lukensmeyer. >> thank you for having us. . >> woodruff: we return to the murder of jamal khasggi, and the roiled relations between the united states and saudi arabia. those ties are longstanding and important to both nations. they're also lucrative. but as nick schifrin reports, those financial ties are also now under great strain. >> schifrin: when the president and his wife made saudi arabia their first foreign visit, the royal court treated trump as a royal, providing a lavish

welcome, and a garish introduction to a grand and golden baloom, where saudi ing salman bestowed one of the kingdom's highest civilian d honors, scribed the u.s. and saudi relationship as tied by shared interests, and military cooperation. and president trump danced to the same drum, describing a strategic alliance thanks to a lucrative arms deal he called a windfall. >> hundr billions of dollars into the united states and jobs, jobs, jobs. >> schifrin: president trump has defended questions over how to respond to journalist jamal khassoghi's murder, and despite ever growing cl >> we're talking about over 40,000 jobs in the united states. you know, you're talking about 500,000 jobs. i would prefer that we don't use, as $110 billion worth of work, which means 600,00wajobs. i don' to lose one million jobs. i don't want to lose $110 billion in terms of investment, but it's really $450 billion if

you include other than military. >> it's sort of the mother of onexaggerations, even byd trump's standards. >> schifrin: william hartung is the director of the arms and security project at the center for internationapolicy. he says the real dollar figure for the trump administration is 14.5 billion, including for m-1 tas, chinook helicopters, and artillery. but even those are only signed offer and acceptance letters, not contracts. most of the 110 billion number comes from deals negotiated by previous administrations, odincluding for f-15s, andern american naval ships. and a 13.5 billion dollar missile defense system order hasn't actually been placed. >>o many of the deals are ngeculative, and often this are put on the table that don't happen. >> schifrin: and as for the claims about creating jobs... h>> i thi jobs claims are absurd, to put it mildly. but also military procurement is the least effective way to create jobs. some of those sobs

will be di arabia, assembling us equipment. >> schifrin: but even if the arms sales and jobs numbers aren't as high as the president claims, that does not mean saudi arabia has less influence. and that iluence was by design, and started more than 40 years ago, when a president met a ki. >> back in the '70s, under nixon and then ford, the u.sand saudis worked together to integrattheir two economies to ensure each was mutually dependent on the other, and the saudis on the united states. n ischifrin: rachel brun the author of thicker than oil, america's uneasy partnership with saudi arabia. she says ever since national security advisor henry kissinger e nt to riyadh in 1975, ths. has opened its doors to saudi investment, and eventually that road led to washington. from 2016 to 2017, public filings show saudi payments to lobbyists almost quadrupled, from 7 to 27 million dollars. and prominent think tanks have accepted millions of saudi

dollars, less for buying influence than ensuring shared interests, bronson says. detoday, the u.s. has audi arabia the center of its middle east strategy, with a new combating extremism center, irjoint efforts to comba and its use of regional proxies, such as hezbollah and gain saudi support for a hypothecial israeli-palestinian peace process. >> those geopolitical realities are the basis for these economic ties. the saudis don't need our money. they have mone i what they waamerican businesseaders and cultural leaders coming to the kingdom, they want american leaders to welcome them into the communit of nations. >> schifrin: that led to cro prince mohammad bin salman's 2017 american road show. coffee with michael bloomberg, chit-chat with facebook's mark zuckerberg, a walk with google co-founder sergey brin. mbs, as he's known, poured investments into companies like

uber, and is now startup companies' largest source capital. >> he was hailed behind closed doors as a combination of abraham lincoln and elon musk. >> schifrin: sam blatteis was google's persian gulf policy director, and now advises technology companies. he says khashoggi's murder damaged mohammad bin salman's reputation for some companies. >> but there a whole universe of tech companies where business is business as usual. >> schifrin: he says saudi money is too large to disappear. and defense cooperation wi continue. but be that as it may, rachel bronson says the historic saudi investment machine has taken a hit. >> they want to be associated with blue chip, big name companies. and those are the very companies bathat are beginning t away or that are backing away at this moment. and yes, they are going to pay a price for that.

>> schifrin: and despite all sm of saudiiti arabia through the years, that price, this time, would be paid for the death of one man. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: a view of the upcong midterm elections from four new jersey women. and mr. money mustache on how he was able to retire at age 30. the president's decision to try to lower some drug prices through medicare is the biggest yet by the administrati to address the high cost of medicine. it is the latest in a series of policy changes from his administration this year. and it comes less than two weeks before the mid-terms as caalth has become a major issue on the campaign trail.wi iam brangham has our interview with the president's

point man on this. ng>> bm: president trump announced several parts to this plan, but here's the fundamental idea: medicare would change how ommuch it pays fore drugs that seniors get atoctors' offices and hospitals. the new payments would be sed on a benchmark index of what some other developed countries pay for the same drugs. this is all part of a pilot project for medicare "part b i s called. it would be phased in over five years. most of the other prescription drugs covered by medicare, known as medicare "part d," would not be changed by this. the government would also try to change doctors' incentives tied to what they prescribe. alex azar is the secretary of health and human servio will oversee all of this and he joins me now. welcome. >> thank you, good to be here. so the president said very big announcement today, herr re to this as a revolutionary change. can you just explain the basics of what this does?

>> you bet. so just this mornwein released data showing that, in our medicare program, where we pay for these infusion drugs -- hese are the high-cost drugs that physicians spitals administer to you -- we are paying 180% compared to what europe and japan are paying for these very same drugs, and that can often be as high as 500% higher than what they're getting. why different? recause pharma is voluntarily giving these ot countries with comparable economic pow vastly better deals. we get a deal and pay 6% markup on the top. we are bringing competition to the system by referencing foreign polices pharma is giving them and bringing the benefit to the medicare and medicare w beneficia pay 20% of the cost of the drugs out of pockets. >>e saying if the europeans and japanese can pay x, we want a similar price?

>> that's right. because in t os partf the program, this is a government medicare program. we set a price for it. it's just a really stupiprice. is the list price plus 6%, and we're saying let's introduce some kind of competitive market-based other way of paying, and what better way is there than to lk at what these sry pharma companies are willing tol their product for to other similarly placed countrieand use that as a reference. >> what about a concern that i have heard that if we start asking the pharmaceutical companies to do this that they're gog to all the oth european countries and say, hey, we're not giving you such a goo deal anymore because they know we're going to ask for a similar price, so that the europeans and the japanese and everyone else might be asked to pay more and that could drive pris up here. >> we hope they finally go to

these otheeconomic powersd say pay your fair share. they have been free riding off dmerican investment an innovation and research all these years. we are producing most toave the profits for pharma and it's time for others to pay their fair share. >> this pace for drugs under medicare part d that arehe expensive drugs the doctor gives to you inhe hospital. it doesn't cover the drugs we buy in a cvs or walgreen's. we asked about the issue of which category of drugs is covered. >> it's a step in the rig direction there's a lot more to do. we believe strongly we should be negotiating over drugrices, our government should. in this case, the trump administration has decided to outsource negotiation the other countries. they're going to neg we're going to use the prices they arrive at. i don't understand why we jus

don't do it ourselves. >> what do you make of that why don't we use the power of medicare to not just gofter plan b but all pharmactical drugs? >> i have great respect for david and his mission to bring down drug prices for consumers. let me start with that. he's not correct in this case.ca me part d, the program where the citizen -- senior citizen goes to the pharmacy, that's paid for under individual select plans. these are the largest middle man plans in america. they pull together tens of millions of lives. they negotiate as good or better discnts than europe a japan do. so we've created a type of competit meketplace there that secures benefits for our patients and the pgram by using that power. the only way, doing what davidgg ts, would cause us to get lower prices, is if we created a

single uniform national formulary or list of drugs and excluded access to drugs for america's seniors to get those prices. my friend peter orszag, barack obama's reomb or, said the same thing. we want the patient in the center, we want choice of which medicines people have access to. >> the pharmaceutical industry, as you might imagine, pushed back ton this today. they said this plan will hurt their ability to do research and development, they atients would get hurt, their lead trade group said today this plan would "jeopardize access to medicines for seniors and patients with disabilities with most devastating conditions such as cancer, rheumatoid arthriis and pher auto immune diseases." >> you know what tsident called for toot at h.h.s. when was he announced the plan is we would bring down over the course of five years reimbursement of these products by approximately 30% on average. that will still leave us paying 126% of the what the europeans

and japanese are paying. i don't think pharma mpans are complaining that french, the eermans, the british, th japanese are not having access to their drugs at even lower 'tices. so i det it. it's the same old tired talking point. this plan protects patient access, it changes nothing on the medicare benefit for people, they have full access the medicines today and tomorrow and the day after, and they get to be in the driver's seat. >> some people have made note of the tof all of this. we are just on the eve of a midterm election where the republicans are getting hammered on healtare issues, the cost of drugs, pre-existing conditions. did politics have anything tdo with the timing of this rollout today? >> not one bit. this is something started working on many months ago. this is an over 60-page speck on detailed specifications on a complex model of completely rewiring how drugs are paid for

in medicare part b including removing physician incentives and how drus with even bought and distributed in the system. we got this plan out as soon as we could because my boss wants action yesterday on drug prices. as soon as it was ready, it went out the door and not a minute oater, not a minute sooner. >> he seemedake that very clear today in his announcement. i'd like to shift gears for jus a second. earlier this week, a memo leaked out of your department that indicated that you are interested in a more rigid assification of gender in america as male and female a that men who are born with -- born as boys and women as women never cnge over time and has you've heard this made transgender groups furious and if you go forward with this you are in essence writing them out of existence legally. is this your plan and why do you think it is important? >> let me just say we believe

strongly all americans are deserving of respect and dignity that is core to h.h.s.'s mission to protect and defend the health and well being of all.merica i would caution, do not believe everything you read in the "new york times." >> so are you saying that there is not a current plan to redefine gender? a >>saying that we are committed to enforcing the laws as passed by congress, including laws that protect against discrimination in healthcare and human services. as tohis particular issue, we are actually subject to a court order and are following that court order. >> i mean, the president, when asked about this the day after the memo came out, he said we ooking at this. i'm just curious to as what would be the rationale for it. your colleague at the head of the c.d.c. said he seemed to imply this wld create stigma for transgender peoplel in america and hurt not help. >> as i said, we are committed to protecting dignity andec

refor all people especially in our health and human services programs. we're also committed to implementing the law that congress actuallesy pa including laws on discrimination, and we are, with this mtter, subject to a court order and are implementing the program consistent with the court order. >> alex azar, secretary of health and human services. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: the countdown clock is winding down with less than two weeks until the midterms. both parties are making their final pushes to rally their bases before election day. but control of congress could rest on one key demographic: suburban women. that's true in new jersey where lisa desjardins recently sat down with group of women who want their voices heard and

their votes to matter. i am here in the iconic diner in new jersey outsid of new york city, with four women who plan to vot in this year's midterm elections. michelle rogers is a stay-at-home mom with three sons, lives in randolph, new jersey. uyen khuong is a stay-at-home mom of three in madison, new jersey. marilyn mclaughlin is a travel agent in morristown, new jersey, and a mom offour. karen arakelian lives in mottville, new jersey, and has two children. she is t owner of several furniture and design stores around the state. one reason we brought you all together is because, you know, this year there has been so muc talk about women, and you are seeing suburban women, in particular, as a key force in this election. you're shaking your head know. wh is most important to you now?

>> the economy, new jeromsey's ec which it's unaffordable for us and people will say, okay, re upper middle class, it's unaffordable for our poor. it just unaffordable on all levels. i feel like we need to get to the bottom of i and find out how to aeviate our tax issues, our tax problem. >> you're a business owner. what do you think? >> i think that the republican tax plan that was just started is causing a lot of good things to happen in the iuntry and the state. i mean, we have a very mixed population in rsey. we have people who make under $40,000, and we have people tt make over four dollars million. so the people making over four dollars million will be paying more taxes. people like some of my family, they're going to be saving a lot of tax dollars if year. so i'm seeing the money being saved and spent and i think it's good. i think it's a good thing. >> and another economic issue we hear about this year is

realthcare. do you have healthoncerns in your own lives, the cost of healthcare? michele my -- michele? >> i thi. it's an iss they're wanting to repeal affordable care act yet there's not an adequate replacement. >> karen? i employ over 25 people and most of them are on healthcare. i saw the premiums skyrocket after obamacare came in. i don't see what obamacare has done for people in this area. my company pay the deductible so we can even afford to have healthcare. that's not a plan. >> what is the plan. i don't toow. we havork on it. >> you eliminate the affordable care act, before you do that, maybe try to fix it.wh throw the baby out with the bath water. make efforts to fixt. >> i throw it agree. the problem with that is the democrats don't want to heaytr ng that president trump wants to do.

>> i don't think that's true. t's a fact. ugit's not astion, it's a fact. they have to not be so staunch on if president trump suggests it, we say no. they did that can kavanaugh, they turned down the candidate before he was even announced. >> what if any impact did tht e brvanaugh hearings have on you? >> scared me. hat way? t could be my son, any uerson of power that, out of the blue, an ation can come out and ruin their life. >> i'm with you because i have hem evens, and one of said to me, you know, mom, in high school, there are moments for everybodin high school, and anybody in that room that was interrogating probably had something n their high school career or time that they weren't very happy about. so some the questions were ridiculous, they were political. >> you are also a mother of a

son. >> three sons. yeah, and my perspective on it would be, and i actually know someone in our group, our immediate friends' group who eir son was falsely accused. so i see wh you're sayin but i think -- i'm not fearful for my son because i know that the statistics are that, when you look at the number of sexual assault accusations and how many are not reported because they're afraid that they won't be believed and they don't report it, the number of false accusations is miniscule, less than 1% or 1 so i'm not worried about my son, i'm not, because i feel that -- i'm more worried about if i had a daughter, i would worry about my daughte i would worry about her being believed and heard, that would be a larger concern. >> you have a daughter, go ahead. >> i have a daughter. but i want to get back to what karen was saying.

what i want us to as people to step away with n , whea trump plan or trump nominee comes up, i don't want us to assate the other side is already heainst it. i mean,e's enough -- there's enough open mindedness to take a look at it because, for me, i'm a registered democrat now, but, for sure, with everything that i look at,' likely wanting to solve it because i love this countr. for me, the way our country is, it starts with the leader at the top, i feel that he is eroding the pillars of our democracy, and that's why i feel like i have to do what i can to do in der to take back the house, to provide checks and balances. that's what i want. i want checks and balances. >> i just wanted to say that i really loved what you were saying because, for me, i throatily agree, i don't like that you're either with me or you're stupid, or you're with me or you're wrong, because i think a lot what we're takins fact is opinion, it is opinion,

and i think es start at the top, that that's my -- that's been my problem since 2016 is that i feel like our leader, when we have a fractured country, our leader has pep rallies where he's calling me basically an idiot, he's calling me evil. i think that bringing our country gether will have to start at the grassroots because we're not g it from the top. i think it needs to start at these tables and around the dinner table and in our communities because we're not getting that kumbaya from the p, we're getting the opposite. >> i want to ask you to talk abouthe president. >> i thought our country needed to go in a different direction. i thought were going in n entirely crazy direction and it was illegal immration, national security, the economy, we weren't really growing, we were meandering along, and i felt like a lot of voice

weren't being heard. so i thought he was about hope and change. he's not exactly the hope and change pality you want, he's not my type of guy, but if we could look behind and see where we are a couple of years later, i think we're heading in a better direction. i know tre's a lot of divivesness in the country, but i think a lot of it stems from this crazy anger that he actually won, and, you know, i know he wo and i know a rot of people don't like him and i know he says a lot of offensive things and i wish he didn't and i wish sometimes he would be a lot more presidential but that's not who he is. but do i believe he loves the country -- >> my last question, in a few words, what values do you want in leader, at you want them to be? >> honesty, truthfulness. moral, ethical. integrity. kindness, respect for others. i want somebody smart that sees the big picture and that

will work across party lineto get things done for the country, and i think that we have that, and a lot of peopldon't recognize it. >> i will almost agree. (laughter) >> certainly on wh you'r looking for. i certainly agree. >> whether we have it or not we probably don't agree. >> i can't thank you enough. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. so much. >> woodruff: now, a look at those who are saving early and living frugally in order to retire young. our economics correspondent, paul solman has the story. it's part of our weekly series "making sense" which airs every thursday. >> rtorter: pete adeney almos always leaves his longmont, colorado home on two wheels instead of four. it's a lot caper.

r seven years pete, a.k.a. mr. money mustache, has been preaching parsimony on his popular blog. and he sure practices what he preaches. how much do you spend a year? >> we don't budget but it seems to alwayd up around $25 to $27,000 per year for a family of three. >> reporter: plus health insurance, in the low 30s. adeney and his followers, known as mustachians, are key players in the f.i.r.e. or "fire" movement: "financial independence retire early." and weo mean early. adeney and his wife left their engineering jobs in 2005. >> so we were 30 at the time. >> reporter: mark and sina ebersole no longer have to work either. and how old are you? >> 37. >> 35. >> reporter: michael and ellen robinson, both 38, stopped agrking full-time two year >> i had this concept that saving as much as we could as early as we could would allow compound interest more time to do the work. >> rr: how do they all do

it? adeney saved 50 to 75% of his income over nine years as an engineer. >> we just did a little bit less than most people of our income level and that was enough to save it. the u.s. tradition is to spend pretty much hing we earn. we only have like a 3% savings rate. you just don't do that and you always have a choice. >> how much did you wind up saving? >> today would be about $1.1 million or a little bit less. that was what we decided was enough to live on forer. >> reporter: adeney espouses the so-called ""4% rule" on his bl if you salt away and invest 25 times stocks you can then withdraw 4% of your savings each year of retirement. but isn't the market risky? >> put the money in ome broad econy through index funds where you own thousands of companies, very conservative and it's gonna fluctuate just because the stock market fluctuates, but if you're just taking a small amount each year

you don't care at all about that. like the stock market crashes you're still taking your little 4%, the stock market goes up, you're still only taki that averages out over time. >> reporter: don't spend money on things you don't actually need, he says. and don't drive so much. >> that's my biggest winning secret to a wealthy life, isju get out of the car a little bit. driving is way, way more expensive than what most people think. most people think about gasoline as the cost of driving. really it's about five times higher than that. so prete is $15 a gallon, then you're starting to get an estimate of how expensive oudriving really is >> reporter: due to depreciation, maintenance, insurance. adeney saves so much because he's also a do-it-yourselfer. takeis house. >> the one that we live in now i built almost entirely from scratch. >> reporter: so you put in your own plumbing >> yeah. >> reporter: you did your own flooring? >> yep, that's part of a house. >> reporter: y did your own electricity? >> i would do my own heart surgery if it was safe.

>> reporter: last year adene renovated a dilapidated building or longmont's main street to create a cng space for fellow mustachians, and added "" tiny house"/conference room. >> it was just $3000 in materials partially from craigslist and then we get a dedicated office that's year- round, insulated. >> reporter: on top of the tiny house, nourishment that costs even less. an apple expert but i just call these delicious, free apples. >> reporter: delicious, free! ha. >> so cheers >> reporter: cheers! >> one of the ways we save money is by only shopping at thrift stores. >> reporter: adeney has acolytes lenty. 38 year-old retired teacher ellen robinson's trick: don't buy new anything. >> so like, this is from the loftyou can buy that for close to $8 instead of buying it for $50. >> reporter: as for the furniture in the home ellen shdes with husband michael their two young children... >> pretty much all hand-me- downs. so the c from my grandparents.

these pieces of furniture right here were hand-me-downs from when the office that michael worked in had to downsize. the lamp a frigad from my work that to me. >> reporter: the coffee table? >> this is sething i bought at a resale shop. >> reporter: it will not surprise youhat the family car is also second hand. >> we bought this 2007 prius used for $8000 about four years ago. and it's pushing about 195,000 mit it still works just fine for our family. at>> reporter: one common e of the fire movement: credit cards, used strategically. >> so we get 6% on groceries if we use this card. 6% back, 3% on gas and 3% on department stores. >> reporter: michael, a former salesman who still enjoys putting in one to two days a week as a consultant, says the family could spend less than the $44,500 th spent last year. >> there's some cushion in our budget we're not down to the bone right now, by any means. >> reporter: do yo at all deprived? >> no, i do not feel deprived. do you feel deprived?

>> no. >> i am not above the temptation, if walk into the mall, i am just as drawn to all those things as anybody else. but i just have a dialogue in my head about the decision to not, very intentionally not, buy those things. and also, just very intentionally not going to the mall >> reporter: restaurant visits are rare. instead, the retired robinsons spend their ample free time cooking and eating at home with their kids. but wait a second, aren't there domany americans who simplt earn enough to save anything, let alone the amounts pete adeney promote >> i'm sure there are, but i also woulday that almost everybody can do better and the lower your income level, the greater the benefit is of figuring out where your money is going. median income is $60,000 or whatever in the u.s. for household and what's the best selling vehicle? it's a 30,000-plus f-150 ickup truck. that's the problem is we all scale everything up just a bit

more than we can afford. >> reporter: but clearly not everyone can do whdeney has done. even in "retirement" adeney has earned enough from his blog that he doesn't need to stick to his but he does, because, he argues, cutting consumption isn't just about cost-sing. >> i would say it's immoral to drive a six-wheel diesel pkup truck compared to riding a bike or just picking the most practical car for whatever your needs are. >> reporte immoral because it's polluting the atmosphere? >> yeah, it's because of your effect on other people and other living things. so like you're gonna consume a lot more metal and a lot more fossil fuels just to carry your tiny self around. >> rr: adeney does have followers who can't afford to ay at mustachian levels. michelle jackson turned out for a pop-up business school held as mr. mustaco-working space d learn how to earn more so she could save more tire early-ish. >> there are many people who

would liketain that, but maybe they have to pay off debt first in order to gehe thint to invest and focus on e kinds of things. >> reporter: how much do you owe right now? >> the amount that i'm focused on now minus the students loans is about $11,000. >> reporter: and even for debtig freer earners like mark and sina ebersole, becoming financially independent began as a heavy lift. >> it was pretty hard at the beginning for me. paring it down, and saving, sang, saving, saving. that was a very foreign concept for me. >> reporter: did you like it? >> it felt a little bit like are we wasting away our good years? >> reporr: ten years later the former dance instructor is grateful that she and mark, an engineer, work only when they want to. >> we're working on opening a bllroom dance hall. >> it's likelroom dance studio but more social focused. >> reporter: ellen robinson relishes the reward of scrimping that drives the "fire" men and women seeking financial independence >> it's not necessarily about

not working, but it's the eedom that comes with not having to work. right no two and i'm home with them all day, everyday and not worrying about whether or notn buy our groceries. >> reporter: as for mr. money mustache himself... >> the goal is just to live a happy existence and maybe leave the world better than when you started. so i've done small businesses like carpentry and a lot of dad workas been my biggest occupation, a bit of writing, some music. i still ha another 55 years of retirement to go and i'll let you know how thaturns out. >> reporter: and for as long as i can, i'll be all ears. this is economics correspondent paul solman at mr. money mustache headquarters in longmont, codo.

>> woodruff: now a program note: with the mid-term elections just days away and several political contests in ate of florida still very close, on monday we will present battleground florida: a special edition of the pbs newshour anchored from tampa. >> campaigning is almost done. stop sanctuary cities. cathe democrats take the house? >> i am pro union, i was a member of the union. >> will republics hold the senate? >> some of the policies that he has established have been very good. >> issues on a collision course in one state. th but at the end of e day, real change is brought from voting. >> a special edition of the "pbs newshour," battleground florida ly on pbs. >> woodruf on the newshour online right now, accumulating human-made debris in space threatens the lis of astronauts and the functionality

of essential satellites. we explore one possible solution on our web site, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evenings hen mark shied david brooks break down the final days to the midterms. for all of us at the p newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbsn newshour has bovided by: >> kevin. >> kevin! >> kevin. >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> and with the ongoing support of tnstitutions

>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs u.ation from viewers like thank you. captioning sponsored by c newshour productions, captioned by media access gup at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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