hello, everyone. welcome to "amanpour & co." here's what's coming up. terrorism strikes america with a political bent. who is responsible for the pipe bombs and the poisonous political atmosphere? i speak with a former counterterrorism official. plus, the c.i.a. director has heard the khashoggi killing tapes and she briefs president trump. former british ambassador on what this all means for saudi/western relations. also hotly contested mid-term elections in florida, could up-end american politics, our alicia menendez with an insider's view. and a movie actor for more than half a century still going strong. the unlikely career of a cockney

superstar, sir michael caine. uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & co." whenby tollman founded a collection of boutique hotels, she had big are dreams and those dreams were on the water -- a river specifically -- multiple rivers that would one day be home to uniworld river cruises and their floating boutique hotels. today that dream sets sale in europe, asia, india, egypt and more. bookings available through your travel agent. for more information, visit uniworld.com. >> additional support has been provided by rosalind p. walter, bernard and irene schwartz, sue and edgar wachenheim iii, the

cheryl and philip milstein family, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. welcome to the program. everyone, i'm christiane amanpour in london. a manhunt continues across america for a domestic terrorist brazenly sending pipe bombs to specific locations in five states and washington, d.c. so far ten devices have been intercepted, all sent to political targets. including one found today at the office of the actor robert de niro who has been highly critical of the president. and two more meant for the former vice president joe biden. president trump quickly reverted to type, blaming us, the media, at a political conference last night as the first wave was being investigated. the media also has a

responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories. have to do it. have to do it. john brennan, the former cia director, whose name was on the bomb sent to new york's office responded with this tweet to the president. he said "stop blaming others, look in the mirror, try to clear up your act, try acting presidential, the u.s. people deserve much better." as andrew cuomo says, america is at the boiling point.

my guest is juliette kayyem. welcome to the program. >> tell us, are these going to be the usual suspects? >> there are going to be fingerprints and you're doing a traditional type of investigation, trying to find the individual or individuals who would have done this. i should add there's also an entire sort of courier aspect to this, the postal and courier services that may have been involved. then you are also looking at whether there are people who have written letters to those who are receiving the bombs, who have said something publicly, who have been in social media, whose friends or neighbors may know something. so you're trying to sort of do outreach to the network of the

community that might be a part of the assailant's world who may know something more. this is a big investigation, multiple states, multiple agencies aligned around what we call the joint terroriricerro j forces. >> it does seem incredibly organized. some say, well, it looks sort of amateurish because the actual pipe bombs were sort of rudimentary. almost all at once. >> i agree with you on that. even though the bombs are rudimentary and they didn't go off and we don't know why they didn't go off, to be able to plan multiple, close to a dozen bombs to be sent to individuals, of which you have a certain amount of sophistication because you know who they are, you know possible ways to reach them, to try to bypass security reviews

through the postal or courier system, this is someone who has thought about this for a long time and may have targeted this for our election less than two weeks away now. i think this is someone who has a sophistication of a desire to be noticed. to be blunt here, this person tried to assassinate two former presidents. that it didn't work doesn't matter. the intent was to harm the former presidents or their families. and so the immediacy of the investigation becomes that much more real. >> juliette, have you ever seen or heard of a dragnet of political targets like this. they're all people who have engaged with the president or who the president has engaged with in very negative or public terms? >> i'm going to put my law enforcement security hat on. the politics are so insane that

to state the obvious is viewed as political. it is not a political statement to say as an investigator what do these people, the people who are targeted have in common, right? any rational investigation would do that. it is of course that they are democrats or media institutions that are viewed as liberals and they are all individuals who the president has either tweeted at or engaged at or said that they should be locked up. that is relevant for an investigation because it's going to go to motive and then motive goes to the pool of people who might be responsible for that. there's sort of a wariness of saying that directly, but you'd be sort of -- you don't want to be so careful that you're not smart about this. there's an obvious group of people who are targeted. >> but, juliette, one of the things that is absolutely clear and we shouldn't hesitate to say the facts because those are the facts. the other thing causing great consternation and nobody knows quite how to say it is does this

emanate from the top? is it because of the tone set at the very top of the power at the top of the united states. i'm going to play a mashup of important quotes from the president. just listen. >> fake as hell cnn, the worst. hillary's a very dishonest person. if you look at the things she says, they're so dishonest. >> i think brennan's a very bad guy. i think he's a very bad person. and of course the legendary low iq maxine waters. low iq person. it was very polarized under president obama, unbelievably polarized under president obama. they'll go to a person holding a sign who gets paid by a lot of

the tweet is purposely the fault of inaccurate reporting of the mainstream media. he said that's what's causing the anger in the country. >> so i still believe that the president of the united states has a unique role in this country of setting a tone. and supporters of trump and defenders of the president are quick to remark in other instances that people love his straight talk, that his supporters love the wave he talks. they relate to that. so it seems odd that they would say on the one hand he speaks to them in a way that they like or they like to hear and that that language might have an impact, which could lead an individual to do something like this. it's not a direct line but if you believe that the president of the united states has a moral tone to set the tone of the

country, of which we should believe that, then donald trump's remarks are ones in which he could very well lower the temperature. >> so to that point -- >> accusing the press or media. >> to that point the republican governor john kasich and democratic governor john cuomo have called for restraint, pulling back from the brink. a bipartisan group of governors. do you think there's a possibility of a reset of dialogue between the press and the president, between the president and his political opponent? a cease-fire? >> i don't think so and that's important to say. while yesterday the president said all the right things, this morning he woke up attacking essentially an institution that had received, you know, one of the bombs, right, and was the subject or the focus of a potential terror attack. the tone may come from the ground up at this stage, but you

have to remember it's not just about what the american public feels, right. it's also about how those working hard, the first responders are feeling right now. they need their heads down focused on finding who this person is more than worrying about the atmospherics of politics right now. >> it's an incredible story juliette. thank you for waying in with us. and in the face of all that, the unfolding events which obviously hit home at cnn, the investigation around the death of "the washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi becomes even more urgent.

c.i.a. director gina haspel briefed president trump on what she learned in turkey, including reportedly what she heard on audio tapes of his interrogation and murder. a murder that even the saudi public prosecutor now says was premeditated. and president trump appears increasingly frustrated with the shifting saudi story. the president has put saudi arabia and crown prince muhammed bin salman at the heart of his middle east policy. some say his entire foreign policy. could his faith in the house of saudi collapse? that's what some regional players are hoping. i asked peter westercot who served as ambassador to turkey and the united states. sir peter, welcome to the program. we want to talk about the jamal khashoggi case, you were an ambassador in the united states. what do you make of this mail bomb domestic terrorism that's plaguing parts of the u.s. right now. >> thanks for having me on the program again. it brought back memories, i have to say.

when i was in ambassador in turkey. we not only had big terrorist bombs that kill might staff in istanbul but also pipe bombs, i used to visit the victims of these very nasty devices which people used to put in tourist buses. but the second wasn't.t tream >> it was a journalist again, enemy of the people. he plays to the base. >> how dangerous do you think that is this idea of hate speech. the idea that this comes from the top and flows down? >> i think it changes the culture in a country. i think i'm a little biased, when i was there and we had president obama who responded extraordinarily well to some of the ghastly mass killings in schools and churches and so on, that the role of the head of state is actually to calm things down and to bring people together. and to spread a message of tolerance and inclusion. that isn't what we've got. we've got a president who never pretended he was that, he was always playing to his base, divisive, punch people on the

nose if he doesn't agree with them. that's a game, but it's also dangerous. i worry that he does affect the culture. he encourages people who are bonkers, to do things which can be extremely damaging to individuals and society. >> let me ask you what you thought when you first heard that jamal khashoggi had been killed and it was most likely directed from the highest heights of saudi arabia. again, in turkey, where you used to be ambassador. many of us as journalists took that as a very chilling effect again from the kind of speech that's directed to us by the president of the united states, and emulated now, by authoritarians, dictators, kings, crown princes. >> well my first reaction was one of incredulity. it was like a bad novel. if somebody given a script like that they would say this is not credible. we're not going to publish your story. the more we saw, the stuff that the turks were leaking, drip, drip, but without ever putting the evidence out there. the more i thought dear god, this looks like it is true and clearly there's been close cooperation between the turkish

intelligence organization and briefing united states senators and other people. people do seem to be convinced that it is as described so horrendous. >> you talked about the evidence. the c.i.a. director, gina haspel has listened to the tape that the turks have. that's the news today. it's a scoop by the "washington post" and she's briefed the president. if it does turn out to be the horrible, gruesome death that the turkish authorities say it was, where does that put the ball? in whose court? >> i think it puts a lot of questions to the white house. i think it places a certain responsibility on the shoulders of president erdogan who has played his cards with considerable skill. think at some point he's going to have to put the evidence out there. maybe that's begun as you say by explaining to the c.i.a. what's been going on. and it makes a lot of people in saudi arabia where muhammed bin salman has made a lot of enemies in the couple of years where he's been top dog, it puts him in a weakened position. he has alienated a lot of the

arab world. he's alienated a lot of people inside saudi arabia. he has managed to captivate a number of middle eastern commentators who thought let's give him the benefit of the doubt. encourage him because saudi arabia does need reform. but there were always doubts about some of his more impulsive, if not irresponsible foreign policy. starting a war in yemen. kidnapping the lebanese foreign minister. people rub their eyes with disbelief. so i think what's going on is that the saudis and perhaps muhammed bin salman himself have authorized a brutal murder of the sort which has captured our imagination and our horror because it is on diplomatic premises in a friendly country. not very far away. >> i would like to play for you a sound bite by the crown prince, the person who many

are pointing the finger at, at this so-called davos in the desert. just to put up a few graphics, you can see how many people pulled out. few people stayed in. the question is whether he can weather the storm. he seemed to be, look at the graphics, senior people and senior organizations pulled out. while others stayed in. the question is whether mbs can weather the storm. and he seems to be brazening it out or not to get it yet. look at the joke he made about saud harirri. >> prime minister assad is going to be here for two days so please, no harassment. so that he won't be kidnapped. >> so, i don't know what you make of that. i find it very difficult to digest. that in the immediate aftermath of the very same day president erdogan was telling his parliament that this was a premeditated murder that had

been planned, you know, for weeks before it happened, or at least several days before it happened, and in an equally grandiose setting, the man who is accused or at least the world of public opinion is accusing him is busy joking on stage. >> shortly after he has summoned the son of the man who is murdered to shake his hand on television. >> that picture is heartbreaking. >> i think what we have seen is somebody who could not get his story straight. we had three or four completely contradictory saudi versions of events, he was alive, we don't know what happened. oh it was premeditated. now trying to make a joke of it i think this shows they don't really know how to deal with this kind of crisis and this kind of attack on the credibility.

self-inflicted of course, of the crown prince. and think what's going on is both a big questions about who's in charge in saudi arabia and would he ever be king? and secondly, president erdogan using this both as an opportunity to restate his own credentials, but through drip drip information, making the world realize that muhammed bin salman is not somebody they want to do business with. they've had a very bad relationship and he's been critical of erdogan and vice-versa for a number of years now. >> some, some are positing that perhaps erdogan is trying to separate president trump from mbs. >> yes. >> do you think that's possible? >> i think it's possible. what he is doing is showing what mbs is about. >> back to the united states. you were ambassador there. senator lindsey graham, a supporter of president trump, has called muhammed bin salman a wrecking ball who you know, is going to go, basically. the senators, the lawmakers, have power. they can prevent arm sales, they can enact the magnitsky act. which is about sanctions and apparently they've already given the president 120 days to come up with whether this was a premeditated, extra judicial killing or not. where do you think this is going to go? what pressure will congress put on the president? >> well the saudis themselves have now admitted it was premeditated. so i think that one is a given. you're right, congress can be

extremely strict on sales of the military equipment to other countries so let us wait and see really where that takes us. i think there is an indignation towards saudi arabia. but many of them have visited many times. and america wants to see 10 million barrels of saudi oil in the market because it's strategic interests. >> will they plan more sanctions against iran? >> i don't think we'll get to the stage of the international community doing what they did in response to british requests for support after the russians poisoned people in britain there was lots of international sanctions of expulsion of spies. >> why not? >> well, because saudi arabia is a different country. if he's got a lot of money, buys a lot of weapons, and has tons of oil. >> so western morals, western principles, down the oil tunnel and down the oil pipeline? >> let's wait and see, i think there will be changes and there will be some change in the strategic thinking in the white house and elsewhere, that mbs is the guy who is the cornerstone of our future middle eastern policy.

and it for erdogan, back to him for a moment. if it means he's a bit weaker and american is a little less reliant on the combination of israel and saudi arabia, who join them in hating iran and anyone who is talking to iran, regard them of the source of all the evils in the region. that will not be a bad outcome for erdogan and with saudi arabia's credibility a little bit diminished. but i'm not holding my breath for the sort of sanctions that we all put together very effectively against russia after they brutally tried to murder people in britain. >> real politics. sir peter westmacott, thank you. turning back to the many around the world are trying to read america's tea leaves. there are tight races across the united states but few are as watched as florida. the famous swing state is in a

tumultuous fight to the finish between democrat andrew gilliam and republican rhonda santos. watch the sparks fly as race was raised in their debate last night. >> i will represent all the people, everyone will get a fair shake but i am not going to bow down to the altar of political correctness, i'm not going to let the media smear me like they like to do with so many people. i'm certainly not going to take anything from gilliam. >> i'm not calling him a racist. i'm simply saying the racists say he's a racist. >> we sat down to break down the nuts and bolts of this swing state and the issues. >> thank you both for sitting down with us. >> thanks for having us.

>> we're seeing the first time ever the florida political party, despite florida's multi-ethnic, multi-racial culture, we haven't seen that before. you have a true blue progressive, a bernie sanders mode and a little bit of hillary clinton and against a very pro-trump i pro-trumpian desantis. it's not that we're a red state or a blue state, we might be a schizophrenic state. we might see andrew gilliam, if the polling is right, the progressive guy get elected governor and the very

conservative republican governor we currently have, rick scott, being elected to the united states senate. we looking possibly at a split decision but we don't know. >> when you look at the senate race, why is aen recumbent democrat like bill nelson having so much trouble? >> he's running in a purple state. it's not a blue state. it's not a red state. although if you look at flat mid terms this is the time when republicans excel and bill nelson is against rick scott. he's spent $40 million in his race and we're looking at tens of millions more than rick scott might spend. florida's is not one state. it's ten states, in order to campaign here, you don't go to diners, you advertise on television. that costs money. so that's a big part of the equation. we also have a lot of white retirees who tend not only to move to florida and want to vote. but they vote republican and they vote republican often. >> with the influx the puerto ricans that have come into the

state following hurricane maria, are they poised to make a difference in this election? >> i am skeptical. not because puerto ricans don't want to be a political force. but because the ones who have arrived since maria in many cases are still trying to settle in. and have bigger priorities than voting. and they come from an island where there are no mid-term elections, they don't have the culture of voting every two years, they vote every four years. >> but they have a heavy culture of voting during election years. >> we do, but trump is not on the ballot. we talked about candidates who are trump-ian. but it's not the same. they are upset with the president for the hurricane response, and in general the puerto ricans who have been here before maria have tended not to vote as much as they could. they've underperformed in elections and think until we see that change it's going to be hard to say they're going to be a huge force.

>> governor rick scott has done a fabulous job of telling puerto rican voters that he cares. if we saw in the early polling, he's been successful in doing that. what we don't know is not only what these new voters from puerto rico are going to do, but the older ones who are here, they're now being paid attention to. they're now being told -- look, you matter. show up and vote and i think we might start seeing a change in their turn-out patterns, which we haven't seen before. as far as the hispanic community in florida, it's not one hispanic community, it's a bunch. but the bulk is cuban-americans. cuban-americans have a fantastic voting record. and slowly you're starting to see the cuban american republicans in south florida, starting to be counterbalanced by the puerto rican voters who are democratic-leaning in central florida. we don't know how it's going to mix out. >> and what governor scott has done well that other republicans have tried to do here as well, which maybe people haven't seen in the rest of the country might be surprised by, is that he has campaigned to each nationality differently. as opposed to treating latinos like one group that you just speak to them in in spanish. he goes to a colombian independence day event and a

puerto rican round table where the focus is not just latinos in general, but we're going to talk about your specific issue. and people really respond well to that. because they don't feel like they're just lumped in as part of a big group. but like somebody is actually -- even if they can't do much. because the governor of florida doesn't set foreign policy. they can at least listen to them and they feel heard. >> understanding that younger cuban americans are trending more progressive than their older forbearers, do cubans still set a firewall for republicans in south florida? >> i would say that one of the surprises we've seen from 2016 to now is there were a lot of skeptical cubans towards trump because they had to come off of this fractious republican primary where trump defeated jeb bush and marco rubio who were like the local favorite sons. especially rubio, who is cuban american. and so there were some cubans who maybe didn't vote for president. or voted democrat. or just didn't know what to do. wrote in jeb bush. but now there's sort of, they've

consolidated in many cases behind trump because the republican party in florida has become the republican party of trump so they are much more comfortable saying that they're going to support him and i think you're going to see that in some congressional races where local republicans in miami especially, have more cuban support than they might have had in 2016. >> i think the only politician from the democratic side of the aisle that kind of cracked the cuban puzzle, was president obama. he was able to get the younger voters out that was a function of him being a transformational figure. younger voters, regardless of ethnicity or race came out for him. maybe andrew gillum will have that effect. i'm not sure. one of the things about andrew gillum's candidacy in the governor's race, he doesn't seem to have had enough money and enough time to message as deeply as you would, and as deeply as you can in a presidential race. so we might be looking at a lower turnout race here. because it's a mid-term, using mid-term races in florida have a lower turnout than a presidential race. >> so when you look at gillum and desantis and they're not

necessarily bringing moderates to the table, who are they appealing to? what is the appeal of each candidate? >> gillum is appealing in some cases to people who don't usually vote in mid-terms in the primary he brought out young voters. some nonwhite voters. that were unusual to see on the voting roles, we'll see if he continues that for the general. and i think his key appeal to a lot of these folks is that he's very likable. i mean he has the charisma that is very difficult to teach and to learn as a politician. and desantis is bringing out people who voted for trump and who are solid conservative republicans. and want to see the state remain red. and florida usually votes red. in midterms, which i think is hard for people to realize because we're such a purple swing state. the largest swing state in the country in presidential years. >> desantis' message is two things, i'm going to stay the course and andrew gillum is, is

a corrupt cop hater. this is essentially his message. >> and he's a radical. >> that you saw in his first debate. you can't trust andrew gillum. you're seeing some of the similar messaging used against barack obama. that's being used against andrew gillum. it's one of those things that leads some democrats especially african-american democrats to think it is kind of a race-based attack. and in fact one of the things that characterized the peculiarity of the governor's race at the very beginning of the general election, was the day after ron desantis when interviewed on fox said he didn't want voters to monkey this up. when it came to this election. and a lot of democrats and a lot of african-americans perceived that as a racial slur against andrew gillum who is the first african-american nominee for governor in the florida democratic party or any major democratic party. for about a month we had a lot of racial tension. one of the things that you saw from the 2016 presidential race, which we didn't really see in florida before, is how racial messaging can actually work for republicans. you saw that with president

trump. and there was a strong white turnout for him that we hadn't seen before. and there's a school of thought among conservatives in florida, that look, if andrew gillum wants to talk about race, and andrew gillum wants to make this a referendum about race and accuse ron desantis of race-baiting which he essentially did during the first debate, that's actually going to turn out more white voters. and that's an element we have very little experience in kind of gauging and we're going to have to wait until election day to see if it's effective. >> you said that traditionally florida votes red during a mid-term election. mid-term elections at the same time are generally seen to be a referendum on this president. how do those two dynamics comport in this election? >> this is a weird mid term because it's an unusual president, in that he has inspired a lot of the left to become more active in politics. and so that is what democrats

are banking on. which is that there will be people who are just going to vote for democrats because there's a d next to their name and not an r and the president is a republican. more than in other mid term election which is is sort of the emotions toward trump are very raw. but if the election were happening in the middle of the immigration crisis, right where there was a lot of controversy over kids being separated from their parents, i think it would have been easier to say, oh, that's going to drive a bunch of people out. that was an issue that sort of pierced and cut through and everybody knew about it and was talking about. do some of the other controversies that sort of take over washington get trickled down to the average voter? i'm not sure. so that's why, it's sort of like we'll see if they'll be able to actually tap into some of that you know -- >> persistence and get them to vote. >> stepping away from the national environment when you are talking to floridians, what

are the issues in this state that are motivating them to vote? >> not some of the same issues that get talked about nationally. in florida the environment is big issue. we had a summer where water quality was a real problem. you had toxic algae. >> red tide. >> red tide in the gulf of mexico that was killing a lot of fish. and mammals, dead sea turtles by the hundreds and the thousands. coming up on the beaches and then you had blue-green algae coming down from lake okeechobee and causing respiratory problems. >> disgusting stuff. >> it looked like pea soup. it's happening on both ends of the state in a state where already climate change is a big

issue but because you see tidal flooding and see the sea level rise threatening builders and affecting people's insurance rates so all of those issues together, matter a lot more here. and matter to a lot of voters. much more than they would elsewhere in the country. >> we look at the polling, they say health care is a big issue. florida is state that has an expanded medicaid under obamacare, 800,000 people lack health insurance that they otherwise would have gotten and democrats have made a good, concerted effort to make that a big deal. it does appear when you put everything together, the environmental catastrophe of red tide, blue-green algae. a brown tide, a dead whale shark on the beaches, dead dolphin. president trump's relative lack of popularity in the state and then the issue of health care, it starts to look like a very bad toxic soup for republicans. yet to their credit, they're still holding on and thats's why we're hesitant to say rick scott is going to win or lose. >> and they're going to spend so much money between now and election day in these expensive tv markets. >> i want to turn to an issue i haven't heard you talk about. the shooting in parkland. a lot of enthusiasm and energy especially among young voters in florida. at the time that happened. has that enthusiasm held? >> that's a good question. the fact that we didn't mention

it and the fact that it was so politically significant kind of reflects the broader attention span, perhaps not just the political class, but also of voters in general. what parkland did change this election season, was a perception of guns. for the first time it became politically safe and perhaps even politically necessary for democrats to embrace gun control full on. >> the fact that candidates are even talking about gun control. not just democrats, but in the first debate for governor, you did not see ron desantis give a huge push-back on the gun issue. which normally would have been like catnip for a republican to go after. so they have changed the tenor of the debate and the fact that it's even coming up in debates and in ads, because we are seeing the gun ads come out. we're seeing some of the parkland parents not in favor of gun control, but want to focus on school safety cut ads for republicans. it's a complicated issue. so the fact that it's being

discussed or asked about in a debate i think is a change. and we would not have predicted in january. >> they also effectuated change at the state level. the parkland shooting happened right in the midst of the florida legislative session. but the idea, if you would have told me a year ago, heck, if you would have told me on february 13th, the day before the massacre, that a republican-led legislature, a republican governor rick scott would have supported gun control that would have raised the age limit for purchasing semiautomatic or just long guns, that they would have put in what is known as a red flag law allowing police essentially to seize your guns if they think you are, mentally unstable, i would have laughed you off the street. and those things not only were brought up, they passed in record time. >> so looking forward to 2020. how much will the results of this mid-term impact how each party thinks about their approach to the next presidential election? >> if the democrats lose both the governor's race and the senate race, you're going to see a party in shambles.

because they were already needing, to put it mildly, therapy after hillary clinton lost florida. they didn't think they would. they had previously lost in the mid-term in 2014. if you, if the democratic party winds up losing three general elections in a row in florida, we're going to stop looking at florida as a swing state, this is going to start looking like a red state. if the republicans lose, they're going to blame their candidates. in the end, governor rick scott, while tremendously wealthy, and while he does have a good record of campaign on, is an awkward campaigner. and he's still going against an incumbent in senator bill nelson. and the gubernatorial race, to patty's point earlier, andrew gillum is very likable and charismatic candidate. those words are not used to describe the republican nominee, ron desantis. there are a lot of republicans who know him from congress, from

the florida delegation who don't really like him. so he's not kind of a warm and fluffy guy. >> and in the governor's race, if it plays out where gillum does win, i think democrats are going to have an argument nationally to make for progressive candidates. because that has always been the test case for him. democrats here have usually put up a very centrist candidate for governor. last time it was a former republican. and here they're going all the way in on the progressive message. and if the progressive message bests the trump acolyte message that's going to be able to hold him parallel to 2020, to well, how do you run against trump. this is one way to do it. fascinating insight from our colleagues in florida there. let's face it, politicians will never be as popular as hollywood stars. cue stage right. two-time oscar winner michael caine is my final guest tonight. his wide range has seen him shape-shift into a playboy in

"alfie" and even batman's butler. now at age 85, he's reflecting at what he's learned and what he wants to pass on from a life very well lived. in his new book, "blowing the bloody doors off." when i sat down with sir michael caine recently, i found him charming and roguish as you might imagine. with soft spots in all the right places. >> michael caine welcome to the program. this is not your first book, it's your second book. >> it's the third. >> this one is called "blowing the bloody doors off." >> i'll tell you where it comes from. >> could it come from a film that we're going to show a clip of right now? >> "italian job" yes. five, four, three, two -- one. go.

>> you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off. >> still brings a chuckle. why do you call this blow the bloody doors off. >> "blowing the bloody doors off" is how to make something out of your life. what it was, was my take was this wasn't going to be a sort of third autobiography, which it would have been. this was a journey between me and the reader. it was you and me. and we were going to do this together. and it came about because i told these people saying i want to be rich and famous. you know, but what i thought was that you've got to find out what you want to do and be the best possible person you can be at it. without, in my case, there are actors who are better than me, actors who are worse than me. my only competition was me.

i had to be better every time. >> so let's just go back to the unlikelihood of you getting to where you are today. because if we go all the way back to 1933, when you were born, and your parents who lived in what can only be described really as abject poverty. >> it was abject poverty. yeah. yeah. after the war i was moved into a prefab because we got bumped out, which was a modern little cottage made from asbestos. in was the greatest thing that could happen to me i was 12 years old and i was in a house with an indoor bathroom, a toilet, a refrigerator. my father was a village fish market and he used to take one out of every box so they didn't notice. >> he used to take one out of every box. to bring home? >> he had loads of fish.

he was quite well paid as a fish market porter, but he was a gambler. so we never had a lot of money. >> all of that got frittered away? >> oh yeah. >> one of the most chilling passages about your childhood. once the war broke out and were you farmed out. >> evacuees. >> people took you in in the country. away from your parents. >> in the countryside. >> in the countryside. and many of them did it not out of compassion, but for money. i was unfortunate enough. i went to a house, me and another boy called clarence, these people used to go away every weekend and they would lock us in the cupboard under the stairs with a tin of sardines and a bottle of water. and that changes you in life a lot. about how you see things. and for instance, from a charitable point of view. charities i do are all for children. i don't do any charities for adults. it's all kids. >> another thing that stayed with you. not many people talk about this and i was really interested to read it. you spent time at war. you were drafted. you went to post-world war ii germany. as an occupier.

>> we were part of the occupation force in berlin, yeah, for a year, i was 18. they sent us to korea for a year. >> which is incredible. you were on the front lines. you were in a shooting war. >> i was a rifleman, yeah. >> how scary was that in. >> it's terrifying. but one of the things about it, was you -- when you get to that situation, you're a young man, you're supposed to be brave and all that. and then you're in this situation and so you think to yourself -- when it starts, am i going to be a coward? you know, run away? and i was involved in an incident in which i proved i wasn't a coward. so it literally made a man of me. >> which is really -- >> but i don't recommend it. >> it's the bedrock foundation, i would assume. >> of me, yeah, the korean war. i have no fear of anything. because i have no fear that i'm a coward. because i know i'm not. >> i'm going play a little clip of your first breakout movie. which was "zulu." >> yeah. >> it is about war, a different

war a different time. it was the famous brits against the zulus at rock's drift. i've been there, it's an amazing story. i want to play this clip. >> hard work. >> damn hard work. >> still, the river cooled you off a bit now, eh? who are you? >> john charles, royal engineer. >> 24. >> that's my post. up there. >> you've come down from the column. >> that's right. they want a bridge across the river. >> who said you could use my men? >> that's a chuckle. what do you think, seeing that. you must have seen it a million times.

>> think seeing that is how lucky i was i had an american director. it was directed by an american called sy enfield, living in england. i was originally supposed to play the cockney corporal. because i have a cockney accent. and then the american director said can you do a posh accent? and i said yes, i could do any accent. i've been in repertory for nine years, i play a new part every week you know. so he gave it to me. i swear to you, that no english director -- >> would have given it to you >> even if he would have been a left-wing columnist, would have given me that part. i promise you. >> then comes "alfie." >> yeah. >> and that rockets you to a whole other level of stardom.

not just here but elsewhere. there's a little bit of the cockney accent issue here. >> my name is -- >> alfie. i suppose you think you're going to see the bleeding titles now. well you're not, so you can all relax. >> alfie. >> what time did your old man say he would be waiting for you at the station. >> never mind about him. never spoil a good thing, that's a thing you women can't get in your heads, come on now, enough's as good as a feast. >> what about the -- the "it" that you called the women. >> it. >> i mean, you know you were playing a pretty sexist misogynist kind of guy there. >> the very typical of the young men then, yeah. it, it's beautiful, that one, you know. >> they always say it, not she. it's wonderful. >> you write in this book how you have been sensitized, you always were sensitized to the

kind of unlevel playing field when it came to women and men. certainly in your business, but all over. >> yeah. >> and we're talking about this "it" and at the #metoo time. reflect a little bit on that. >> if it's the '60s that changed it all. you know, when women became stars as well as men. you know, there's so many women, julie christie and all that lot, you know. they became stars as well. and also, the pill came along. so sexuality, they were no longer it, they were them. >> you said about the situation, you said i always knew or i thought i knew about the casting couch. but to my regret and shame, i never thought too hard about it. >> well, my view of the casting couch was i worked with harvey weinstein three times. and i knew we all knew he was a bit of a lech with the ladies. my view of the casting couch was the actresses, the pretty young actress comes in. he tells you, you've got the part, now i want to you do this. and she says, no. and he said, no, you haven't got the part and she walks out. i didn't think in terms of anything of exhibition or any kind of -- assault or anything like that.

is that you just didn't get the part. you know. and i never thought harvey was like that. it was a big shock to me when all those women came out. >> do you think it's a good thing for your industry and for all of us, actually that this is coming out now? >> it's a fabulous thing. you know why? because no producer would dare to approach an actress over a part for another 50 years. it's freed the women. they don't -- you know, no producer would dare now. how is he going to -- say well unless you sleep with me, you're not getting the part. the actors would phone the next newspaper and it would be on every headline in the world in the morning. >> so i'm really not mixing these two things. but it's slipped into my head that when you first went to be an actor, at these various youth clubs and things in your youth, you were looking through the windows, you thought well that looks kind of nice. and you describe yourself as a bit of a geeky, awkward sort of teen. >> i was.

>> maybe that was a good place to go and get your first kiss. >> yeah, that was, yeah. i was in a youth club. and i was -- i used to go upstairs to play basketball on the roof and i always would pass this door. with two glass windows and i noticed it. and one day i thought, what is it about this? and i realized it was full of all the prettiest girls in the club, so i used to look through and i said, i wonder what they're doing. they would always be talking to each other and i thought, i wonder what's going on in there? and then one day i fell through the door, i leaned on the door and fell in. and they thought i had come to join. and i was about 12, 13, 14. and there was a girl there that i wanted to kiss, you know. and the woman who ran the club said come in, we haven't got any men. there are no men in here. i said oh, all right. and i thought, we'll do a play, get a love scene and i'll get to kiss any of these. so i said okay, i'll join. that was the reason i became an

actor, unfortunately. >> that is the reason. that was it. >> that's how i became an amateur actor. and went on in my life to do something i love. because i loved acting once i started doing it. and then that's, that was one of the lucky things for me. is to be able to do a job that i would do for nothing. and i got paid for it. >> one always likes to know the personal life and the story behind the story. it is incredible in today's world that you and your wife shakira have been married for 47 years. >> nearly 50 years. >> and it's not normal. it's not usual for many, certainly in hollywood and look there she was when i think you first spied her. >> yeah. >> there's an amazing maxwell house coffee ad. >> a coffee ad. >> that we're going to run. >> you're going to run the coffee ad? >> why not. >> i love seeing it. >> my wife was so bent on helping the builder.

woman, i said, leave that poor man alone and make us some coffee. not that kind you've been buying, either. instant maxwell house coffee. red jar, good to the last drop. maxwell house. the instant that tastes like -- like coffee. be a good little maxwell house wife and we'll be happy here for a long time. maxwell house coffee. instant and ground. >> oh my goodness, not just maxwell house and you saw it. but it was "madman" kind of be a good little maxwell house wife? >> yes. well, i saw that movie, that advert and i tracked her down through the advertising agency. i was watching with my mate. he's dead now, but my best male friend, and i'm a very good cook and we had been out to discos and jazzing around and one night i said let's stay in and watch television, which we had never done. we never watched television. we said we'll watch television tonight. i watched the television, i went mad about this girl. i thought she was brazilian. because there's coffee in brazil. i said, paul, let's go to brazil. i had plenty of money. i said let's go to brazil in the

morning and i'm going to find her. i said let's go down to the disco, one of my best friends had tramps, which was a fabulous disco. we go down and have a drink at the disco. another guy came in that we knew, he said hello. he said three guys without a girl, what's going on? i said no, no, i came in, i've been watching television all evening and i've seen the most beautiful girl i've ever seen and i've got to go and find her, she's in brazil. i'm going to brazil in the morning. he said i've been watching television all night. i haven't seen any beautiful women. i said she wasn't in a show, she was in a commercial. he said what for? i said maxwell house coffee. he said we do that. i said do you? i said you mean the girl in the maxwell house coffee? and i said yeah. and he said she's not brazilian, she's indian and she's not in brazil, she's in london. and i got the phone number and i off. her and she told me to >> how did you win her over?

>> i kept going. what happened was, it's something i often think about, i've been married very, very happily for 47 years. and on the last night that i phoned her, i decided this is it. i've been phoning her now i think for ten or 11 nights. i phoned her every night and she told me, she didn't say f-off, but she told me to go away. and then on this, on the 11th night i went, that's it. if she doesn't come out with me tonight, forget it. and what she had decided i found out later was she was fed up with it. so what she was going to do is come out with me just for one night and get it over with and then stop me phoning. and that's what happened. you know. but if either of us had changed our mind, that's 47 years are the happiest years of my life would have gone. it's amazing. >> it is amazing. >> it's quite incredible what

life does for you. >> you write about how, part of how you stayed together, how you kept the flame alive. shakira has always come with me on location. not so much to keep an eye on me, or for me to keep an eye on her, but so that our lives would stay intertwined. >> yes. if you spend a lot of time away from each other, you get to meet people the other one doesn't know. you know? and i'm not saying anything like women or being unfaithful with men or something. but just friends, just make friends, that the other person doesn't know. and movies, three months, two and three months long, you can get into a whole load of habits. so when you come back together again, you're two slightly different people than the ones you started with. and that can -- if you're not careful, you know, cause a wider incision the whole time. >> but beyond that she did actually you say, save your life. you were in a pretty bad heavy drinking phase of your life. >> i was drinking quite heavily. i would have a vodka at breakfast.

>> what? >> yes. once i met her, i -- to this day, i never drink in the daytime. i only have a glass of wine with food and i never drink on an empty stomach. >> very wise words. >> yes. >> very wise words indeed. >> on that note, sir michael caine. thank you so much indeed. "blowing the bloody doors off." >> thank you so much, christiane. you've been very kind. >> a master class if ever there was one. >> and join us tomorrow for our interview with apple's tim cook. there is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching and good-bye and thank you for joining us tonight.

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