hello, everyone. and welcome to "ama our and company." here's what's coming up. two comic geniuses who share a rare ability to mine hope in these troubled times. a prthoughtful, sing and, yes, funny conversation with dave chapelle and jon stewart. and with basicights being challenged like never before, we talk to two florida activists, former felons, who are fighting to restore voting rights to morn than a milx-convicts in roorida. >> uniworld is a pud sponsor " of "amanpour &

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amera seems more divided tha at any time in our recent memory, coming apart at the seams you might say. what better time to talk to dave sh pel and jon stewart? two of the most important voices in contemporary culture. both have redefined the boundaries of storytelling. with his sketches on chapelle ow dave skewers racial stereotypes and is an international sensation. and jon ever since helming "the daily show" became almost more relevant than traditional news ank anchors with his satire laser focused on the truth and lies of current political discourse. away from the small screen, though, stand-up is a vital part of any comedians' dna and the two have teamed up for rare performances in the united states and europe, tackling issues like gun violence, the twitter era, and what it's like to raise kids in 2018 amid mounting political uncertainty. i caught up with them at london's royal albert hall to he see whcomedy can, indeed,

at this timelp bridge the political divide.ar jon st dave chapelle, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> firstly, what is it like n doing a comedyre in albert hall, ever been in such hall? >> is there such a hall? >> it was very royal. you felt wrapped in velvet. >> what brings you two together? i know you've done things together. why now? why here?ar >> well, it d when i was doing a residency at radio city. and part of the residency i would have, you know, different comedians and musicians, we would all come. it was kind of like a great collective orcuration of talent. this particular night,tht was day that the riot happened in charlottesville. >> oh, yeah. >> and, i mean, you could feel it in the room. people -- it was a palpable feelingsround it. and jon stewart showed up that night.

when he went on, really, like either jon or obama, only people that would have got -- literall who would have got -- >> obama is a type five on charlottesville that would have crushed. >>l you could fe crowd. was a sigh of relief. you were like to be rational and like the set you did that day was so powerful.we >>, that opens up a lot of questions. first and foremost, i was just reading about lenny bruce, the great comedian. i thing it's 50rs y since he died. all of a sudden having a resurgence of broadway play about to happen. features in an amazon prime series.? >> lenny bru >> lenny bruce. >> his career is going better now. h. >> y having a revival. >> he changed agents. >> but people are saying that, you know, the same things that he was satirizing exist right now. the assault on free sp the partitioning of the country along race and religious lines,

>> right. >> the protests on the streets and in congress. and i wonder whether that affects you, whether you yoternalize that given wha just said about a rational voice. >> well, i don't know abou rational voice but i think we always internalize what's around i . we're comedians anink we feed off of whatever the food is of the day that'coming around. i don't know that, you know, in terms of a resurgence of the country being divided along racial and class lines and gender lines and all that. i feel like that's always with us. it just at times maybe bubbles up more explicitly but em even when you don't say it out loud, it still exists and it's always foundational. and so, i don't know that it ever goes away. cu do you think it is more right now? >> the division? >> yeah. >> no. man, no. sa fact, some of the things they

say, even when thethat russians influced the election, it's kind of like is russia making us racist? is that who's doing it? okay. i thought it was us. putin's like -- >> huh? >> i hadn't thought of it that way. th >> if they kilcountry that way, we're the murder weapon. >> yeah. we've always been. >> so is the trump era a good vaa for comedians? is it just unbele fodder? or not? >> i would not even name the era after him. >> yeah. >> he's getting too much credit. >> he's the president. >> he's not making the wave. he's surfing it. >> yeah. always been there. >> he just -- all he does is ng those people's greate hits. build a wall. all these things we've heard before. he sings the songs. he's the only onen who's bee brash enough to do it. >> he's been more aggressive toward journalists and reporters.

obviously we're speaking in moment when one of our colleagues has been butchered in cold blood in a consula in turkey. >> terrifying. >> and in that environment, president trump talks about a candidate running for office who r.has body slammed a repor i'm going to play a little bit n what he said. >> any guy that a body slam, he's my kind of -- >> what do you make of that? i asked you because you were sort of the gr beard of journalism almost. i know you hate that. but when anchors started to be less authoritative than they 0ed to be maybe 2 years ago, you were for better or for worse considered somebody with authority.>> think we were the protest vote to a large extent. we were none of the above. some people would say who's the most trusted news anchor? they would list the four network anchors then they would throw in, you know, my name, none of the above, and everybody's like, none of the above and circle it.

that would go there. you know? i think that he is a performer.o when we shows, we do our shows. and no matter if we're sitting in royal albert hall or like in copenhagen we went to a little room called the zoo. there was, you know, 100 danish-speaking somewhat surprised people to see us. we sat there and weid our show. we did it -- drup drup onald tr salesman who chang his pitch depending on who he is in front of. what he doesn't realize is it's all being recded so his pitch to that audience is the us versus them, we're all the victims of this liberal media, of the soft journalists who come out here and lie about us. we're really great people. that's what he pitches to them. if you ask him about it and you say, do youhink that's okay to body slam reporters? no, no, of course not.

dowaot do that. joking in front of friends. >> before we go forward, tet's go bacthe day of the election. you were hosting "saturday night live" right after the election. >> donald trump, i'm going to gi him a chance and we, the historically disenfranchised, demand that he give u one, too. thank you very much. >> did that dream, desire come r ? has he given you a chance? do you still want to give him a chance? >> i think i said the right thing at the right time. >> uh-huh. >> you know what i mean? othink that we had to recalibrate and kiput things in perspective. you know? i'm a black american so we've -- these feelings that people felt after the election, we felt that many elections consecutively. i think that to some degree people overreacted. like the alternative to giving chance was storming the

streets and if something's good television, they won't do that. >> hbo has a lot of offerings right now to keep you from storming. >> "game of thrones" is on? can't make the riot tonight. i don't know. ise doing a good job? am i happy with what he's doing? no. it's been very diffic watch the last couple years. >> harder than i think i thought it would be. there was a part of me that thought when you get in that room and it's nighttime and there's no one around and teddy roosevelt and abe lincoln andod everis up on the walls staring at you, that brings a w cognitivght to what you're feeling. i imagine he walks in that room, he's le take thatdown, take that down. put up dogs playing poker. can a fella get some french fries around here? i think that oddly eugh he transforms the white house, the white house wasn'torble to tranhim. >> back in 2015, when he

announced for president, you didn't takit entirely seriously. >> the man came down an escalator. >> can i just play what you said? >> oh, sure. >> like many of u i heard some interesting let's call it news today about a certain, let's say, gift from heaven. entering the presidential race because appantly huckabee/santorum wasn't farfetched enough. i got to tell you, the world right now is going, white are black, trump's running for president, like -- >> should you have taken it more seriously? i mean, you're the oracle, jon. >> yeah, now. i didn't think -- i thought america was going to go, is that an escalator in the mall? i'm not going to vote for that dude. "a," i didn't think he meant it. and when he gave that speech, knite frankly, i really thought when he said, yo, mexico sends us the worst, rapists and murderere murdererers, i really thought he

disqualified himself. >> not to mention what he said about women. aut women, about everything he said there. i thought this is disqualifying. for me, though, and clearly i dot speak for -- youknow, he's been very effective at, like, what dave said. surfingavhe waves thatbeen there. i'm watching the midterms. man, you would think the country is mad max thunderdome. this guy is like they're coming from guatemala, they're coming g.om mexico, there's a liberal mob that's com muslims. and you would think everybody in the country's just like, to the buer. to the ramparts. >> to that point, it's been ou written you, dave -- >> it has been written. >> it's been said you have a singular gift for blurring left and right, red and blue states. ?at do you think that mea that somehow you're able to sort of surf, bring them together, not necessarily get st the political divide. >> because most of the political discussion is so binary and i'me way more interthan that. >> you are way more interested

than that. >> most people are. if you talk to them. you know, i have people say,kn u , families are not speaking to one another because of politics. that sounds insane to me. like, a ton of people that i love and respect that completely disagree with. >> so do you think, because obviously we're all caught up in this sort of daily trumpfest. i mean, every single newspaper, every radio station, every bit of social media -- >> you got to makeoney, too. with you got bills to pay, man. you got electric bills. you got food. this guy, he's giving you all cash the cash flow in the trump era for these tv stations and for these news -- >> can i say, that might have n beensue and maybe it is r e people who are the bean counters but we the journalists, we, i think, believe that our job is to navigate the truth and to do the fact checking and all the rest of it so i think that's what -- >> i think the journalists have

taken it personally. >> that's interesting. >> they're personally wounded and fended by this man. he baits them. they dive in. whatuge's done well i t is appeal to their own narcissism, their own ego. what he says is these t are -- journalists stand up and say we're noble, we're honorable, how dare you, they take it certainly. now he's changed the conversation to not that his policies are silly or not working or any of those other things. it's all about the fight. he's able to tune out everything else and get people just focused on the fight. he's going to win thn fight. >> eb woodward said in his book on the trump white house that a lot of journalists are too emotional about this but or's hard for us to be dispassionate when from the white house are aggressive against us and, you know, raise the spectrum of violence -- >> you're not used to it. >> no, no,e're usedo it, believe me. >> think of muslims. think of the black community, people. you know?

when journalists rise to this outrage of how dare you say this about us, think about the lives they've been leadinder this. >> all right. >> and what they have been put under. >> so you have said artists can transcend race like nobody can. >> true. >> so tell me about that. tell me how you do that and why you do in it a way that others can't. >> even the early days of bebop and jazz, the bandstand was integrated decades before the country was. artists such a beautiful thing to look at. one can forget certain lines that one should nots transgr socially. in the pursuit of art, if someone's good ath sog, you want to be with that person. no matter what color, race, ygender. if tot the gift, they got the gift. artists are. >> hopefully it articulates something human, not something purely secy,rian.

>> comteve martin said this, you've said it in a different way. >> you got a good rearch department. >> comedy is not always nice. it can be really mean and it can pushoundaries to a place whe some peoofe feel really nded. is that -- is that because everyby's a snowflake? , does comedy -- should comedy have certain boundaries at all? >> well, think there's mewhat separate questions. >> are they? >> comedy's boundaries should be excellence. so whatever it is that youe talking about in terms of subject matter, if you're just napalming indiscriminaly to provoke, to me, that's not really comedy.me should be something more human and truly believed and -- but i don't put any line on it. fascinated when they say where do comedians draw the line? nobody ever goes and says to donald trump, where do presidents dra the line? you know, we add insult

sometimes to injury, but -- >> horseface. >> horseface. he should draw the line at horseface. >> which as we know is what he called stormy ydaniels. >> that's right. i'm more interested in his insults, more interested in this injuries. in the people that are being hurt. not in the people that are being insulted but are being hurt. >> i wanted to talk to you about louis c.k. >> okay. >> everybody's talking about it. >> i don't know about everf ody. >> a lotople. >> my mom hasn't mentioned it. >> has she never? jon, would you have done that?>> ill he go back on stage? she is thinking about other things. >> you said comedy i not a particularly friendly place for women. >> it's not been, no. >> do you think that will change? >> hopefully it changes. >> the better question is why is it not friendly to women? >> boy, that's aon good ques you know, the roots of it, i don't know. i mean, i think it started out

as a male-dominated field. it's not a particularlylc ing field. you have to come out there and cut your teeth on it. i think ineneral most things are not -- i'll tell you a story. so, wead on "the daily show" an article about a sexist di environment, w't have women writers. i got offended by that. i was very mad. i was raised by a single mother. ae wore a t-shirt that sa woman needs a man like a fish needa bicycle. and me and my brother were like, i think we might be men. this is terrible. so i was mad. how can they say such a thing? i went back to the writers roomb do yieve this, steve? what do you think, greg, tom, mike? i was like, oh. and it was right. but the reason it was risst was not neily one that we had seen before. our ignorance to it was such that -- we put in a system of getting writers where there were no names on it.

we thought that's gender blind, et cetera. you don't realize the system itself, the tributaries that feed us those submissions, is polluted, as well. tl we are getting is white males that wrote f lampoon or funny jewish guys from brown so what you had to say then is, send me not that. send me your women. send me people of color. we get the submissions and say i can't believe how funny women have gotten cently. you see what i'm saying? ss i do see what you're saying. >> it's a systemic. i think what can mostly help change is when you open up new tribaries to bring in talent and then they grow and then they help grow their community. >> 100%. and tell their stories. >> and that's the most important. >> 100%. can i just move from gto race then? because obviously there's been very, very, very funny black comedians.ic african-am comedians.

and i read, also, that, you know, obviously, bill cosby was a hero to many in the black and white communy, frankly. i think he was at one point a hero to you. >> absolely. >> if he was your hero, how diffult was it -- how hard w it forou to get to grips with the transgressions against women? >> it was -- it's a nightmare to see a hero fall that heinously. like literally. f my ked about it on one specials. someone said i was defending him. i was, like, defending him? i was mourning him, like the loss of a hero. it was a terrible, terrible thing to watch. i got it tell you, seeing him get perp walked at 81 was devastating for every black comedian. like, oh my god, this is terrible. i joked abouit before. all my heroes murdered by the government or a registered sex offender. it's a sad state of affairs.

>> what is the right way for anybody rehabilitate them? louisk. did what he did without consent of the women who he did it in front of. and then he pops into the comedy cellar in the village and does this act, again, without consent of theaudience. they didn't know he was going to be there. be that as it may -- >> that's why i get consent of the audience. i go around and -- >> you cool with me going t? >> i'm goi go on. >> but here's the situation. the guy who runs the comedy cellar got into some for it. so did louisc.k. for not even talking about it, not acknowledging it, not apologizing or whatever. >> i don't know that he didn't acknowledge it. >> well, apparently he didn't according to the initialhe reporting innitial appearance. >> i mean, i know i read in the paper but i al know what i heard on the streets. >> okay. >> from a comic, we know a few eyewitnesses. >> it's a slightly different version.

>> either way, what should be the right way for society to al with somebody like louis c.k.? should he be forever banned from his job or be reprimanded or should there be -- er i think the question, itself, is somewhat unanle. when you talk about the right way in society to rehabilitate, it's something we've struggled with in the criminal justice. system forev >> we know how rehabilitative that system is. >> right.s >> t much different. there are -- there are shades of gray in this whole area and there's been a lot of black and white activity since me too beg,n and now people are say especially men, there needs to be some kind of parameters. >> it's nascent. >> that we all know. >> it's nascent in its embryonic >> what should he do to come back on stage? or is he doing theig thing? >> again, there is no recipe, there is no model l that ce put together and say if he did one, two, and three, everybody will be cool.nk

i don't thi it works that way. e find something that together as a society but it's not -- i don't know that you can say there's a formula here that makes sense. i'm a believer in restorativeju ice. in the idea that when transgressions occur that the parties must participate. together to bring themselves to some conclusion. but the truth is you won't find 100%.y, you can't hat's the right way to do this so that everybody will be okay, because they won't. >> yeah. where is the forum to build the consensus? >> right. >> i don't see -- >> we're a society now of reactionary. we've taken on -- news has taken on the rhythm of twitter. most emotional form of communication. >> i'm sorry. >> i'm goingo push backn you there. >> please. >> we're doing our job here

trying to navigate a new normal that's been thrust on the world. >> would you say that there is an overemphasis among many in the mainstream media on as a reliable arbiter of the emotional state of an issue? i think less. i think twitter is having less a effect on us but i think you're right in every tweet is dissected. i grapple wit the idea of overemotionally -- >> i would like to see your grapple. >> i'm grappling. believe me. every night i grgrapple. ple with the issues. >> i like it. >> vers the hysteria and emotion. >> i think 140 or 280haracters is not a welcome forum for that type of grappling, but it'sce ainly a seductive forum. >> our long show is a very welcome forum. >> it's why i never miss it. what time is it on and what day? >> now -- twitter. on >> yeah, see, >> that's interesting. >> a new movement, me neither.

>> no hashtag though, because we're not on twitter. >> you famously walked away from very, very lucrative career on comedy central. people say there was like $50 million left on the table. what was your issue with fame and fortune and publicity? e >> i don't know if my iss with fame and fortune but i do know that the other side o was after i left i didn't think that i would ever work in this capacity again.su and i redefineess for myself. i raised some kids. i had a happy life. you know what i mean? >> okay. that's really important. flesh that out. in >> h-- >> yes. pp >> having a life? >> yes. >> i get up in the morning. my days are fairly predictable.h most of thgs that i do i do because i want to, not because i have to. kids ane healthy. no mad at me. no one's afraid of anything real

or there's nothing palpae to afraid of. we laugh a lot. i see friends of mine on a fairly regular basis and there's a happy life. >> i said, you know, you tend -- you're kno between various sides of the coin. you, yourself, are african-american. you're muslim. you don't talk much about your religion. you're married to a filipino. you have three biracial children. it's a very -- it's a polyglot.g it's a melot right there. >> yeah, i guess. >> you make it sound conscus. >> yeah. >> i think you're -- >> i love who i love. >> he loves who he loves.ef people areing those lines as though they're not supposed to be blurred but if you don't define those lines then he's not blurring. he doesn't -- his faminot a blur. >> the last 12 years were. >> that'a beautiful unit. it's -- i don -- those lines can be defined by others but that's not -- >> but others are. >> the lines don't -- a lifewe

lived, i think these lines will mean less and less.ti letely -- >> i hope so. >> doesn't mea i'm not aware of the lines. i'mhortunate eno i can transcend them on many occasions. >> i started by asking you w here. what is it that you two want to say together to the world today? >> i'm glad you asked. >> beyond just lucrative comedy and all the -- you know? what's your manifesto? >> again, i think -- >> the answer is i'm glad you asked. >> a slight misconception. so we started out in comedy together. i've known dave since he was a 17-year-old young man who came into the comedy cellar and blew us all away. you don't see people with that just ability and insight at that age. think from that moment i've just always been so respectful

and honored ho be around and to listen to him and talk to him. he's just such a thoughtful and insightful individual. >>hanks, man. >> comedy is about for us the hang. it's about the ha. it's about getting to a certain point where you go out. when you're starting out, it can be very solitary and you are on the road and in places you don't know and not necessarily tricked out theaters where queen victoria haser own box. you're in walnut creek and o you're stayi the side of a road somewhere. and for me, this has been a wonderful just reconnection to that lifd but at a much ev better and place. and i feel like part of what we do here is just have a really great time together and ve a aneat time with the friend family that are with us. and communicate with the audience is our thing and react with them and interact with them. and it's just a -- it's a wonderful way to spend a week. >> i think one thingon

brings -- i've been touring forever. one of the things th's special about touring with him is collectively i think the crowd listens differently than the average comedy crowd.lo i think of people see our names on the bill and they come to get like the political word but it's not even that. it really is just a .eat comedy sh and i love traveling the world this way because -- >> yes. >> ou know, a lot of people been to copenhagen but they don't know what the crowd in copenhagen feels like. it's a great way to engage a city. >> how's it different? can you tell me what's different between the crowd in new york and copenhagen and london? >> because of the internet,y, sa places are not as diverse as they used to be. everyone does kind of eat from the same trough now. however, european crowten more than they do in america. america, it's not that they don't listen in the states, but

we are a raucous bunch and here they have reallye ood performaiquette. if they go to see a show -- >> wildly polite. >> that's good. >> wildly. >> it's an adjustment. we had to get used to . >> did you get as much feedback? >> well, it's a different -- first of all, when we first were performing, it was copenhagen and -- >> stockholm. >> -- stockholm. la like to think comedy is somewhat nuanced ouage and somewhat precise of language and those nuances mean sething and they're taking it in. as their second language. and so, i thoughthere would be olag where they'd gon google translate and just be like, that's nice.d like it wove been performing at the u.n. and everybody has headphones and they hear it finally in swedish and go, that's funny. w but n't. they really took to it very naturally but there is yofinitely a sense of they really want to hea like, i don't know that in the states we've ever performed

somewhere where people were just like, you know, this is exciting r us and we really want to hear what you're saying. >> american rules of engagement ar tdifferent. expectation of comedy is different. in america, there's a sense of we are also part of the show. i'm gog to throw my two cents in and that's going to make it, you know, eve better. i've had hecklers come up afterwards, i helped you out there, didn't i? actually, i had some things planned out.ou soidn't really. but i've enjoyed seeing -- i've never been able to travel anes seeing the lle of copenhagen. seeing -- i will say this, too. it's really interesting and even in scandinavian countries, they don't blur the lines. they don't he the same divisions in some respects that we have racially or religiously. it's very interesting to see. >> that's why when i asked you the questions, i comenfrom a diffperspective than the united states. >> absolutely. >> you just said, you know, you like the hang. i assume you mean hanging out. >> ah. >> is that the hang?

>> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> i like to throw that sarng nd. >> i got to try to pick it up. >> it i like to hang when i'm gigging. >> is it the same in journalism? do you like each other? is. >> we like to hang. yes, especially on the road. that's a little bit milike what you do. >> you talk about your perspective on working on the story. >> we like it. a comradcomrade. same level. lder to shoulder. hanging and being out of your comfort zone. >> yeah, yeah. >> so are you happy out of your comfort zone since "the daily show"? do you wish you were still there given the trump era? >> can we call this the lil wayne era? >> now that carter five is out we have to call it the lil' wayne era. it was time for me to leave the show. >> i know you said thabefore. >> that was the right choice. >> that, you said before. s ghtly different than dave, i waited until i got paid.

>> similar. >> i went and i'm raising kids.i to, you know, but also trying to live a more i think richer balanced life. i was really focused on that. i knew it was my last shot. it was something i believed passionately in and did it to the best of my ability as far as i could go. >> i have a question. did you d standup when you were young? >> very little. like, i would do it on the weekends, you know? but not a ton and i miss that. >> you mean, when you were doing "the daily show" you didn't do standup? >> no. after you left the show. >> i thoughte meant afterwards. >> it took me a while. it really ignited the night that atve was at radio city and he'd been cg the shows and had chance the rapper, hannibal burris. i came out because i'd been watching charlottesville all day. i said, dave, can i come on and do ten? great.

d i just remembered how much i loved the forum, the immediacy of and being surrounded by your peers. >> i got to say one thing that's the fact that he hasn't been doing stand-up and will come back and perform at the level that he has been. >> muscle memory >> it's beyond muscle that's badass. >> we've had great shows. just great. and the wathat the crowd acts, it's just been an amazing experience. we've done stuff in atlanta, houston, el paso, europe, iceland. >> and you're going to direct again, is that right? >> yeah. i wrote something that i'm going to direct. >> do we know what it is? >> i don't. i haven't read it. i wrote it but i haven't read it. don't tell me how it ends. >> you don't want to tell me. y y >> you, i watched in "a star is born." amazing. >> it made me cry.

>> yourerformance on the set or the film? >> the film. >> me, too. >> yeah. i also cried. >> but i was absolutely red by the electricity between bradley cooper and lady gaga. you see an actor trying out being a singer in public for the first time as far as we know and a singer trying out to actor for the first time. and two at the top of their game trying each other's thing. i thought that was phenomenal. >> it was amazing to see up close, man. it was amazing. it's funny i met br london when he was doing a show on the west end and i knew he was cooking up something. >> "elephant man." >> is yeah. rking on "a star is nt man" and >> how did you get the part? >> he asked me. i didn't know if it was going to be good. i never saw any of the other movies. i only did two movies in 18 years. one was with spike.

because he just asked mmy me. one was with bradley because he asked me. >> spike was here last night. when you hang with dave, there's a carnival of talent tmes with it. there was spike lee and janet jackson and naomi campbell and s all people he has cultivated. he's a great curator of talent. i have been very happy to bask in the reflective light of that. although i also had a visitor, i think itas in stockholm. it was my kid's fifth grade teacher's sister came. not as accomplished but stl -- >> be careful. she's going to get offended. >> she is going to get >>offend. yeah. i would say she's just as accomplished but in a different way. . >> i think she knows she's not a janet jackson's level. i think she feels that. but that's what's -- you know? he can -- i don't know how it happens from these various areas and they come together and like the old salons the way youne it used to be and creates a

really nice alchemy and really interesting vibe. >> it's funny, i don't do press. i only did this so i could meet yo >> see? now you're in the group. >> am i in your group now? i'd love to be. n stewart, dave chapelle, thank you so much. >> a pleasure. >> pleasure. nice to see you. >> jon, you know everybody. that's the other thing. turning now to real retail riter suppression and now we bring you two f men who are leading the fight to restore voting rights to more n an 1.5 ellltizens of their state. they are convicteds. now, desmond mead and neil volls are activists behind amendment

4. but as former convicts, themselves, they can't vote on their own initiativinitiative. mead who served timerugs and weapons charges is now a practicing attorney. volls, a former republican political operative sentenced in a lobbying scandal and together galvanizing broad sufor a simple premise. once you pay your debt to society you shoulde able to be a full citizen again and that means being able to vote, too. we talked to them in miami. >> thank you both so much for being here. >> thanks for having us. >> thank you. >> can you tell me what amendment 4 is? >> yes. amendment 4 is constitutional en ent to restore the eligibility to vote for individuals who have previously been convicted of a felony offense. the requirement is they must complete all portions of their sentence as ordered by a judge and once tha occurs then they're able to have the eligibility to vote. the amendment, howevuld

r t apply to individuals who are convicted of mur individuals who are convicted of felony sexual offenses. >> so who qualifies as a felon? >> anyone in the state of florida who's beef convicted a felony offense. one of the myths we try to debunk early on, a lot of people when they think of felon, they think of the worst td.ngs in the wo but it is so easy in florida to get a felony conviction. you know? ing as simple as burning a tire in public or driving with a stspended license or even trespassing on a cction site or releasing helium-filled balloons, those things can allow someone to get a felony conviction. and if they live in florida, they will lose their right for life. >> and i think one of the things if i could just add to that, you see that play out in the court system because in florida 75% of the people who are sentenced o th felony convictions actually aren't sentencedison so

people are in our communities, in our church pews, sometimes usstors, bosses, working wit and they're at school, so this really is something that impacts everybody. >> why approach thti as a constial amendment? >> we approach this as a constitutional amendment because elected officis and politicians have been talking about changing this for years and years and years and this came out of the pain of people dealing with the system that's i ly broken, a system that has us, one of four states that permanently bars people from ing full citizens in the community in this way and we are just trying to do what other states like texas and georgia have done and that's basically to adhere to a principle that iden a debt is paid it's paid. and when you've our debt then you're able to become a full citizen in your community again. >> it is often portrayed as an issue that affects almost exclusively communities of color when, in fact, that is not the reality. >> that's exactly rit. and we appreciate that question. because while the african-american community is

disproportionately impact eed a there's a longistory that got us to this point, the truth is this cancer that started 150 years ago after the civil war t s grown to a place where i impacts the entire state. every community's impacted by this. two thirds of thoswho are formerly convied, people like self, are not african-american. they look more like me than desmond and so it's important for people to understand this is an everybody issue and there's an impact in all comnities. >> what is the pushback you most t ten get? >> for me, what i metimes is a reaction that somebody thinks that this has something toyoo with crime. know? hey, if you did the crime, you should do the time. i and whound is that, you know, i'm somebody who's lookinr foe. right? i need to give that person grace and ask them, why do you think that, why is that your reaction wh you hear about this issue? what i've seen over and over and over again, what we've seen over and over again, when a person

gets a chance to think about this issue and how broken our system is and if we take this step we could create safer communities and stronger families and change lives in thn process t's a true oin-win. you start see the kind of support that we're seeing right akw in the polls. >> how does this communities safer? so this makes communities ser because all the data shows -- the data on the right, data on the left, datas from universities, from all sides, q show that thecker people are able to reintegrate into their communities, the less likrey they are tfend. when you start doing the numbers and think about the tax dollars sa d and less crime that' going to happen because of it, this actually impacts every community in florida and it's ai real wi when you start thinking about the practical impacts thisan have. >> so this issues deeply personal for both of you. can you tell us a little bit about your story? >> wo so all of my charges came because of my addiction todr s. and so i have a lot of

gessession of drug charges. drug possession ch and eventually, a gun was found in my home and i was charged with that. that was the last charge i received i think in 2001. and i was sentenced to prison. initially a 15-year sentence but it was reduced to 3. and i was released in 2004. i remember being homeless. and walking the streets. not much hop you know? and eventually, my steps took me to railroad tracks and i stood there waiting on a train to come so i can jump in front of it. i was recently released from prison. i was unemployed. i was addicted to drugs. didn't have anything but my clothes that i was wearing. but the train didn't come that day and i ended up crossing

those tracks and i checked myself into drug treatment. from there i mov into a homeless shelter, not too far from here. chapman partnership. and while there, i decided to enroll in school.t and i enrolledami-dade college and things went well for me there academically and eventually i was accepted into law school at florida international university college of law and may of 20 eventually graduated. >> i got my felony conviction 12 years ago ani was working in washington at the time. i spent years up there working in republican politics. ndd i was chief of staff for a member of congresshen i went and worked as a lobbyist for a law firm and i got selfish and greedy and started t make stupid decisions and crossed lines i shouldn't have crossed. got in trouble. conspiracy charge. on a services fraud was the count.

>> became a big national story. >> it was a political scandal. i played a role in that. i had to deal with the shame and the guilt of my ownd decisions heir impact on me. those people around me. my loved ones. my family. and that really put me in a tailspin and ultimately over some time u i end moving to florida and that's where i started to begin to put back together again. >> if you win on election day, what will that mean more broadly for criminal>>ustice reform? ell, when i think about election day, i think about the families who are involved. i think about the individuals, the moms, ds, the aunts, the uncles, the people who have been working with us and a part of this movement for years. and when i think about election day, i think about people getting their voice back and people having a seat at the table ppt. 100% sure kind of next steps. we're really focused right now on this part of the process. i i think about as a movement because this has taken years and it's people who have led the

charge and you know what, on election day if this passes, they're going to have their voices heard in their communities. that's going to be an election of school board or the ability ay have a over something that impacts how their mom or dad is, you know, is treated at the, you know, by the hospital or what have you. has a lot of different impacts and there will be plenty of time for us to dig into all those tht'gs. to me, that kind of, man, people are getting their voice back. >> i think it's something different than criminal justice reform, what we're talking about. i get excited about the way we got here, right? you're going to keep hearing me say is over and over again. people from all walks of life. i think we have something ecial here because with an issue as ctroversial as voting and dealing with felons and in the state of florida, fors to get to where we're at right now, supermority with opposition, right, and being

supported fr organizations from koch industries to the aclu, christian coalition all the way to the ame vang calls, latino vang calls, m florida tax watch, to have such a broad spect support above the ground and on the ground saysomething special about this. what it says is that people can come together along the lines of humanity and shed their pas.isan differen they can shed their racial akxieties and come together as human beings andsomething special happen. r thht there to me means that we are -- we could be a brht spot in this country. in times of these when there's so much division among people along the lines of race and along the lines of partisan politics, to see people come together in the state of florida around the issue like this and

you have uty from all walks of life, that i think can be an example of how we can move forward in this country. >> there are people who look at the two of you and say your storieare anomalous. not everyone becomes a jd after ing to prison. what do you sayth to ? >> i mean, it's true, but i think when you look accoss this try, there are so many amazing stories of returning citizens who have defied the odds and become, you know, you have sean hopwood. he teaches law at georgetown. you have simmons in tte of washington. you have bruce riley in louisiana. you know and so many others that have done amazing, amazing work in the community and have turned their life around. now what i shouldn't have to go that far in order to earn the eligibility to vote back.in

i that once you have served your time as ordered by a judge, you know, and that's very timportant because when yk about that exchange there, or that interaction and t experience, that, you know, i'm in a courtroom and you have a judge and i have a prosecutor at nows everything about me, that knows everything about the case. right? and they made the determination based on the totality of circumstances that i should serve a certain amount of time and once i serve that my debt is paid these are the experts that we put in place to make theserm deations. they made that determination. and once i serve that time then i thould be able to move on my life. >> as republican, how do you feel about republicans' general response to this issue? >> yeah, you know what, i find that peopl from all political persuasions are opening to listening to, you know, what it is that amendment 4 is all about. and so we see support, majority support, supermajority support,

from republicans, independents, democrats. >> i don't mean voters, though. i mean legislators. governors. >> yeah, the truth is we're very focused on people. you know? this movement matters to us and we were collecting petit ons and knockidoors and talking to people long before the names ofs who are running were even something to think about. so for us it's always been about talking to people and that i going into, you know, i was at bike fest a couple days ago. odness, the support was overwhelming. so you have people ahead of the politicians. when it comes to amendment 4. >> we never went to politicians with this.it becaus in the hands -- it was in their hands far too long and the beauty about this is that we did this in spite of politicians.we id this in spite of partisan politics. and we like to keep it >> because where are your politics? >> listen, we are fighting just as hard i f not harde that person that wished they could have voted for donald trump as

that person that wanted to vote for barack obama. we don't care how a person votes.re what we bout is that once you've completely served all portions of your sentence that you be given an opportunity to have your voice heard. that's what matters most. >> you say that, though, de tanding there is a perception most of the people who you will then make eligible will want toraote for dem rather than voting for republicans. >> that's a great question because it deaiv with a narr a false narrative, that has been perpetuated for quite some time. >> by whom? >> by everyone. whether they're republicans, democrats. as a matter of fact, maybe i'm to blame, as well. because what happens irethat we haveed an illusion that the ople whose rights are restored are going to be mainly african-american and people coming out of prison. the realitis in florida african-americans only account for a third of the people who have lt their right to vote

and when you talk about people who e in prison we have to understand that florida convicts over 170,000 people each year. ant of that 170,000, less 25% are even sentenced to prison. so the overwhelming majority of people who we're talking about who are impacted are people who, number one, do not look like me, and number two, are notoming out of prison. and so that just destroys that narrative or that myth that was built on this thing that, well, african-americans always get in trouble. they're the majority of the people in prison. this is for people te in prison so, therefore, african-americans are going to vote democrat. that could be the furthest from the truth. ha yeah. and the truth isis how the story line goes. how we get to this false narrative isased on this idea that the majority of folks impacted are african-american and then you look at voting numbers and then make ap to a partisan conclusion. i've been in so many meetings e with peod i love this

moment when folks, 10 or 12 of us, returning citizens sitting around and somebody asks, oh, hey, you're republican or democrat? we're not allowed to sit in those seats in this state. r we can't be a republican democrat because we're precluder the process and so the idea that somebody wants to project onto us w we are, how we're going to make decisions in the future just doesn't make any sense and it really isn't backed up by any data on any side. we're just focused on whether peop can vote and not how they can vote because it's the right thing to do. >> what has your experience taught both of you about the power of forgiveness and second chances? >> this journey, this journey has really taught me the power of humanity, about really connecting with folks. you know, i'm sitting next to this guy here. he is conservative. white guy here. and i consider him my brother.

and our current environment tells me that he's supposed to be my enemy. but in reality, he's my bedrock in this fight. if nothing else, i think that this journey has taught me that if we just take a momento just be in close proximity to each other and toave a conversation with each other, there's so much more that we can accomplish because we have so much more in coon than we have that separates us. >> i would add to that. watching desmond lead and knowing his story and knowing our stories and knowing the stories of so many people who have come alongside of us, i'm a evperson of faith and i be that god uses people who are broken and hurting, the outcast, the underdogs, those left behind to bring about changhe communities and for me this is a

verification of beliefs that are very dear t me. i see them play out many people like des and others and myself. to know we're being used for something that's bigger th i ourselves redibly empowering. and ioove t see somebody whose voice was silenced whether by themselves or by somebody else s to actuallyp up and share in front of an entire room of people, hey, let me tell you about my felony conviction and know a year around they wouldn't tell that to their best iend. that is powerful. >> america les a good comeback story. >> thank you both so much. >> thank you. >> a powerful movement and as they say, a unifying one. a new poll shows that amendmente 4 has gd almost 70% support among florida voters. that is it for our program tonight. hanks for watching "amanpour & co" on pbs and join us again tomorrow night. >> uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & co." when bea tollman found a

collection of boutique hotels, she had bigg dreams, and those dreams were on the water. a river, specifically. multiple rivers that would one day be home to uniworld river cruises and their floating boutique hotels. today that dream sets sail in europe, asia, india, egypt, and more. bookings available through your travel agent. more information, visit uniworld.com. >> additional support has been provided by rosalind p. walter. bernard and irene schwartz. sue and edgar wachenhe iii. the cheryl and philip milstein family. seton melvin. esdy and joshn. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> you're watching pbs.

♪ - this week on milk street we take a tr to north africa-- actually, to tunis-- to get a terrific recipe for chicken couscous. then we grabbed a food processor to makrissa sauce in just a few minutes. and, finally, the best soup in the world, lablabi-- stale bread, chickpeas, cumin-- it's the easiest soup you could possibly make, and also the best. ed stay tor the cooking of north africa right here on milk street. - funding for this series was provided by the following.