♪[music]el >> micohen is going to prison. and the former fixer bringshe president's conduct into the spotlight. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> former trumpel attorney mic cohen speaks out about hush money schemes during the 2016 campaign t >> let ml you, i never directed him to do anything wrong. >> mr. trump'statements come as the national enquirer publisher admits to federal prosecutors that theas organization involved. all this, as another criminal investigation loo into the trump inaugural committee's fund-raising. plus -- >> i am proud to shut down the vernment for border security. >> a showdown over the federal budget and border policy. mp taking full responsibility for a t shutdown. >> we cover these stories, next.

♪[music] >> this is "washington week." funding is provided by... ♪[music] >> kevin. >> kevin! [applause] >> kevin! >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjamecom. >> funding is provided by newman own foundation. donating all profits from newman's own food products to charity and nourishing the common good. the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural differens in our communities. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you! aoncein, from washington,

moderator robert costa.>> ood evening. president trump is facing a barrage of investigations and political aallenges,ad of divided government next year. he specialbes from counsel to u.s. attorneys in new york continueo vex this white house, bringing figures from the president's past to this turbulent president. the president's fermernal attorney michael cohen once said he'd take a bullet for . trump. but now cohen is a convicted felon, cooperating with prosecutors. he was sentenced this week for threeears in prison for lying to congress and other crimes. cohen insists mr. trump knew the hush payments had -- he made to women in the 2016 elections were illegal, a charge mr. trump denies. prosecutors say the publisher of the national enquirer, david peckertted the tabloid paid thousands to a woman who claims she once had an affair

with mr. trump. a lot toov. four respected and deeply sourced white house correspondents. maggie haberma pulitzer-prize winning reporter for the n york times and a cnn contributor. kristen welker of nbc news. jeff zeleny of cnn. and seung min kim of the washington post and an analyst for cnn. maggie, welcome to "washington week." i really appreciate you being here. >> thank you for having me. >> what does this tell us, maggie, about presidenmp amid all this michael cohen news? you've cover both men for many years. what does it tell us? what does it reveal about the president? >> i think, look, michael cohen described a different donald trp in an interview with george stephanopoulos earlier today. he talked about trump being di herent than the mane knew. i personally think this is the same man that we saw i new york over many years. but it reveals this incredibly, you know, unusual, certainly for what we see from president

relationship where you have a person who is talking about his blind loyalty in terms that we don't normally hear, even in thr ible of politics, by michael cohen, talking about that he was essentially, you know, brainwashed. that's not his word. but he was devoted and devout in the service of donald trump. and that that him to commit all sorts of dirty deeds, ae put it. the president, you know, insisted michael cohen should have known what he was doing was the law. and i think you have a relationship -- in the case of what michaelohen is saying, that donald trump certainly knew about it. nothing happened at trump tower without his knowledge, that is definitely the experience for those of us who have covered h and his business and his relationship with someone like michael cen, for a very long time. where this goes now, i think, remains to be seen. i think the question is, does michael cohen get called before congress to say these things

again, you know, facing possible perjury charges if he lies under oaha? remember,s something that he pleaded to, lying to congress, something that he pleaded guilty to a few weeks ago. what does he do? how much moreotential damage does he cause the president beforee goes -- >> maggie, when you talked to rudy giuliani in the white house, is there a high level of anxiety about this argument they're now making that it was a personal matter, not c apaign matter? do they feel like that's going to hold?s >> i bifurcated, take out the white house and insert trump and his private lawyersnd people another the trump organization. the white house is operating as his is not happening, it's yet another day in the administration for people who arehe staff members for the president, for his legal team, for people at the trump organization, it's a very different ball game. you have rudy giuliani trying to suggest that, you know, this was a private transaction, that michael cohen is a liar, that he was disloyal to the president and made that cle in the fact that he secretly tape-recorded

him, an audio recording that has become a keyde piece of ee in this case. we know that it was used by prosecutors. they are arguing that the president does not have any legal exposure. he certainly has legal exposure. whether that means he's in legal jeopardy remains to ben. s again, their argument is you can't believe anything michael cohen says. yet th government clearly did believe him on this issue and said that itas corroborated by other pieces of evidence. >> that's a smart point, because part of t reason the government seems to back up michael cohen injury, jeff, is you have david pecker from the national enqrer and american mea saying -- cooperating with the government and sayingl michaecohen is telling a straight story. yound that, i think, when sum up everything that happened this week -- and these weeks get confusing because there's so many internal movements. david pecker, he's not a household name, but the national enquirer certainly is. he's a longtime friend o the

president. the president has been silent about david pecker. but he has a cooperation agreement, an immunity agreement. it corroborates this story. that we learned this week, confirmed this week that mr. trump was in the room, candidate trump, was in the roog duhose conversations. that's why this week, i think, is different than other weeks. that's why this week matters more, because you see so many friends of the president who now are agreeing, cooperating with prosecutors, and that has to get to the president. you can seeis it in demeanor. you can see it in his actions. you talk tino people b the scenes. it bothers him in that respect. we've seen so many times the president has dismissed aid that's somewhat true. not this week. michael cohen, davi pecker, longtime friends of this president. >> you brought up that president trum was inhe room the summer of 2015. does that point to the president'susonduct, not during the closing days of the

campaign but for two years now, beinunder scrutiny from prosecutors? >> it points to his deepening involvement in this, bob. no doubt about that. that was two months after candidat trump had announced his candidacy for the presidency.d o i think that that is what is so striking about the fact that we now know, according to our sources, thatha he was in room when they were discussing ways to qua thesetories by women making these allegations against then-presidential candidate trump. cifically whats trump was saying in those meetings. i think it's important to point that out. but, againou're starting to see puzzle pieces dom together. ome together. that's why i think president trump, the white house, incrsingly concerned abouthe potential legal exposure but peril thaolitical president trump may be in. publicly he said, look, he's not concerned about this, not concerned about impeachment, the i-word, of course, what all of washington has started to talk abou but privately he started to tell

his friends and allies that heou worries it be a real possibility. >> what about, seung min, we also learned about this week gathered from the raid of cohen' office and home, launched yet another criminal investigation into the trump inaugul committee. when you're up on clinical talking to -- on capitol hill talking to republicans, what do they think about this being ded to the mix and all the cohen news on top of it? >> they are jt overwhelmed. like we are, with all the legal woes. i think lot of -- it's getting difficult. it's getting more difficult for congressnal republicans to buy into the president's ause we'vens, b seen, particularly regarding the cohen information, that his explanation about whether he knew the payments at all whether he directed him, they've just shifted so much over time. i had a lot of interesting conversations with particularly with republican senators about, presidentlieve this anymore when he tweets on thursday morning that he never directed cohen tose make t payments? you know, can you buy that explanation? g and you varied answers.

his allies will say, yes, i do trust him. look at cohen. he is not a valid source either. others say we gotta let all thec prors, both in new york and washington, do tir work. others saying, look, we like his policies. let's kind of brush that stuff aside. but on the democratic end, you're just getting more ammunition. agaif they're still kind o afraid to touch that i-word. it's still politically toxic for a lot of members of their party but they're seeing little bits here and there. you have jerry nadler saying these look like impeachable offenses. i was having a conversation from a democrat senator. obviously they will remain in the minority. but he's writing a letter saying i want d.o.j. to reevaluate whether their guidance is that a sitting president can't be indicted. there's a lot going on here. >> maggie, what do you make of nhat? the republiarty seems to be

holding for now behind president trump. but will tt basetick with this president, amid what's happened with michael cohen?as the presidenthanged his story. do those trump voters care? >> i think right now they don care. i think your point, though, is an important one, that i was which isabout before, that he has changed his story. this president is very used to leing a consequence-free life where he can say basically whatever he wants and there a minimal ramifications for it. i think this is the first week where we ares seeing, he just hitting sort of a harder wall of reality given what happenedith michael cohen. i do think that his base is going to say this is a personal issue. this is a private matter. this is his private life. this is his marriage. i think if it stays here, i think in all likelihood, republicans continue to stand by the president. i think we just don't know what else mhael cohen has toldve inigators and prosecutors. i think that is going to come out in the coming weeks and

mo ihs. anhink that is the big threat for the president. also, remember, theredent's advisories have always -- advisors have always viewed the chael cohen as more perilous to the president than the mural mueller case. ey always believe that's where there was vulnerability and i don't thinktecessarily ends with stormy daniels. >> maggie haberman, wew k david pecker is cooperating, michael cohen. the longtime finance head of the trump organization, he's been pretty quiet. >> he's been prettet but what he has been doing is being pretty careful about getting his own lawyer, which is not nothing. we reported that he is no longer being represented by the group counselepresenting the trump organization. he has his ownttorney now, alan weissleburg. he has worked for the trump organization for over 30 years. he was truly involved in all of these deals, all of these expenditures. he knowsasically where every penny was gone.

he was involved with the trumpti foun, which the new york attorney general is looking at. he handled the trump private trust which essential is the president's own personal money, once he took office. and he kryws where eing is spent in the business. this is going to be a pressure point. the prosecutors are going to try to aqueeze. peopund the president are concerned. >> speaking about squeezed, if you're a house democrat right now, forget about robert mueller's specialatounsel investn. you could say there's a felony here. could the democrats say -- iou know say they're being careful, but maybe they say this is enough for impeachment. >> that will be the test for house democrats. but there's a lot of wise democrats or former democrats, who say slow down, allow then investigato proceed. don't get yourselves in the middle of all this. i think i was struck by the advice by the mayor of chicago, a longtime house democrat. heem urged therats in the house to focus on the cabinet. other things, not theeeresident.

we. in terms of one word the president said this week that imve not heard say before, he said, they were trying to embarrass me. to me, that was a sign taking us back to maybe the bill clinton stuff. it's just about sex. l what wern, though, this week, every facet of donald trump's life is likely now being investigated. the inaugural committee. the super p.a.c. the trump organization and h inde white house. it's more than just the hush money. i think the campan finance violation, it's more glamorous maybe, more sexy, if you will, igbut i think there are this week that there are more deepening worries to come forte this wouse. >> is the white house ready for this political storm? on friday, the president announced mick mulvaney, the budget director, will be his acting chief of staff. but from the chief of staff position tohite house counsel's office, are they prepared for this storm? >> i think you rse the critical point. it's not clear that they are, bob. it's not clear tha they have an aapparatus in place to deal with what w know is coming from

democrats. that i are unifi on one point, which is they think there should be more oversight of this president. there are going to be investigations and likely subpoenas as well. it's not clear that he has a team in place to deal with you mentioned mick mulvaney. we got that announcement at the end of the day today,hat he's going to serve as the acting chief of staff. there was ace very rocky p to get here today. his first pick, ayers, tal with him fell apart. this is a 36-year-old political upstarte who every thought would be jumping at the chance for the job. there have been a lot of twist and turns along the way. the president felt like he needed to have someone in that role to brace for what is coming in the newr. >> maggie, real quick, what's your read on theulvaney appointment? >> i think that the president engaged in a fair amount of willful misdirection about where he was going with t as one administration official put it to me, it was the eternal plan b, mick mulvaney. he's already wearing two

different hat now he is taking on another one. look, i think he isomebody who checks a fair number of boxes for the president, that he was looking for. he is a former member of congress, so he can at least help him understand and navigate certains a pebts -- aspects of what's coming when we have the change of the guards. and he is somebody who the president personally is comfortable with. they've played many rounds of golf together. you know, he is somebody who has a rapportith the president. what he is not is sort o this scrappy type of fighter than you would have seen in a chris christie or somho otheres. and he is somebody who knows the building, which i think appeals to the president he is not somebody who is going to have to take some time to come in. and i think by calling him acting, the president gave himself some flexibility. he can -- he didn't put a time limit on it. he can stretch -- acting can suddenly last into 2020 ore acting could couple of

months long. i don't think we know where it's going to go. i do think it is interesting that he would not have ayers as thecting chief of staff or interim, which is what aye f had bem the very beginning of that negotiation, saying he would do. the president didn't want that. it was a time limit h rejected. but he is okay with this one because it's on his own terms. there's a lot more to this story. >> in mid-december, he wanted to make a move, as kristen said, and as you just said. i buwas not just michael cohen and the chief keef chief f ne. e senate voted to withdraw u.s. military assistance for saudi arabia's war in yemen as punishment for the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. lawmers agreed to overhaul how buxual misconduct cases are handled. the issue is a possible government shu aown. there wa spirited exchange as the president and democrat

leaders sparred o sr anding bill. the president is demanding $5 billion to build a border wall. democrats say they're willing to provide up to $1.6 billion. o one thing i think we can agree we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute and you want to shut it down. you keep talking about it. i am proud tohut down the government for border security.g >> s min kim, are we going to have a shutdown next week or is it going to be a stop gap that keeps the government funded for a few weeks? >> well, things don't l at this point, a week out from a potential shutdown. there has been discuy,ion alre particularly from richard shelby, the senateap opriations committee chairman, powerful guy, that some kind of stopgap fundings through january 3 might be necessary to avert a partial vernment shutdown. but it is fascinating how the two sides are just so dug in. look, there's probably less than 1% chance that democrats would agree on $5 billion for a border

wall. before that remarkable oval office exchange, and now after trump y said he would take ownership for a shutdown, there is a zerohae. there's barely a constituency on capitol hill for instigating a shutdown for a border wall funding like the president wants. perhaps some of his allies ag willo go with that, but i talked to a lot of republicans on capitol hill just about that remarkable moment and his owning that shutdown andnd i f cornyn, the number two in the senate crom texas,ments to me remarkable. he just said, i don't understand the strategy. maybe he'll exp bin it, i don't get it. >> the white house seems to be walking back, kristen. >> the presidenteemed to walk it back in a tweet the very next day, sing, look, hopefully we don't want to shut down. >> would he accept even 2 1.6, billion? >> i think so. life been speaking to white housefficials, who haven't

said that exactly, but they said he wants a better deal. yit is clear t don't want to own a shutdown. as we were just saying, bottom line is republicans don't wtot wn that and the president doesn't really feel as though he nks the leverage. so i t if they can find a way to find some type of common ground, perhaps that would avert a shutdown. to your point,that's m likely is that stopgap measure. >> that scene inside of the oval office, silent vice president pence, the sparring between the daughter of a former baltimore mayor, now san francisco's likely speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. president trump from new york. chuck schumer from new york. is that a preview of 2019, j tf? >>nk it is. of all the extraordinary scenes we have seen in the oval offree and tave been a lot of them, this certainly is a window into what's to come. lot of -- all three of the participants and four if you count theilent vice president, learned how the dynamic is different. president trum has never been confronted like that in his oval

office. he's largely surrounded himself by aides who are in aeement. it's clear why republicans weren't invited. sat wasposed to be off-camera. he invited the cameras in. all sidesno were, you showing off a little bit. a, it solidified nancy pelosi's speakership position or certainly helped her toward that. but this is a window into the t factt president trump is not going to get everything he wants. but an unspoke dynamic there was the one between schumer and talk a which we don lot about. we'll talk about it next year. but that is interesting as well. so ionder if the president will try and divide them at all. antheyt give him an inch. his presidency could have been so much different had he started with infrastructure with his olh friend chucker. but that's water under the bridge. >> seung min, a moment for leader pelosi. she fends off a moderate rebelian, rebels inside of her conference, almost immediately after that whole

>> exactly. this is one of the arguments that she and her allies are making all along.e look, s a fighter. she has been at the top of t democrat ranks for 16 years. she has negotiated with multiple presidents. she knows what she's doing. on thehe best counter hill. you can't have a newbie in the position she was in, on that couch, sparring with president trump. plus the fact that she was able to agree to -- she was able to come to a deal with the so-called rebels, threatening her potentialy speakership, essentially term limiting herself. ys she'll be out by 2022. that really helped her solidifyh just hd on that gavel. we've talked for weeks now how we allxpect nancy pelosi get there. we just didn't know how. she did. >> maggie, when you think about the real story here, there the political theater of everything we all watch. but we also heard that president trump was on tho with leader pelosi, hours after that whole sce t,king through a possible deal. we saw criminal justice reform

bills get some real action this week on capitol hill. beyond the theat, is this a president who could be pretty transactional next year or n? >> oh, i think if he's able to be, almost definitely. as we know, he tends to treat everything as i it's an open-ended negotiation. you put it very well. what happened inff the ovale was theater. he got something out of it. you know, he had a base that was rather upset about that criminal justice reform bill going gthrough. so h to look tough about the wall, which is a core campaign promi g. nancy pelo what she wanted, which was taking the fight to him. of course, they're back on the phone trying to work something out. i think he is going to do what he can to beac traonal. i don't -- i think that nancy pelosi andhuck schumer are going to have the leverage in that relationship, especially to jeff's point, if they stick togeth. so i thi that while the president feels like he can extract all kinds o concessions, he's just not in a position to get that much right

now. witness them talking about this stopgap measure to avert a shutdown that will allow him to leave. nobody -- and go on vacation to palm beach. he doe't want a shutdown. the democrats don't want a shutdown. and i think that where you are going to see him behaviorally is going to b very different than what we have seen in the last few years. point. a sharp the president wants to go to mar-a-lago, play golf, see some family. members want to go home. is this all about, o both sides, scoring points and cutting a deal? >> sure. congress is not working thr.gh the weeke all members of congress, house and senate, were leaving washington on friday. they're coming back monday night, tuesday. so, no, like every shutdown right before this, you get the sense that something will be worked out. the question here, though, is, you know, is the president --s his word ever going to be good? he said he would own it. you always hav to leave open the window of possibility that he may do something un iedictable. bu this sense, right before

christmas, i don't think he wants to spoil christmas. t >> i thit's right. this is a president who understands optics. he's a genius when it comes to that in many ways. and imagine the optics of a government shutdown. even if it's partial, on christmas day, that's going to be tough for president trump politically. and i think one of the pressure points is they don't really have a plan b for reopening the government. when you talk to fol inside the white house and on capitol hill and you say, what if there is aovernment shutdown? well, it's likely going to go through the new year. one republican said to me, if that happens, we could lose the support of the country. >> we'll have to leave it there tonight. thanks, everybody, for joining us really appreciate it. our conversation will continue on the "washington week" anpodcast. youind it on your favorite podcast app or download it from our website. i'm robert costa. thanks for joining us and have a great weekend! ♪[music]

>> funding is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james. newman's own foundation. donating all profits from newman's own food produd s to charity urishing the common good. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural diffences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you thank you! >> you're watching pbs.

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