♪[music] >> michael cohen is going to prison. and the former fixer brings ther ident's conduct into the spotlight. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> former trump attornehe michal co speaks out about husy mone schemes durin the 2016 campaign. >> let me tell you, i never directed him to do anything wrong. >> mr. trump's statements come as the national enquirer publisher admits to federal prosecutors that the orgazation was involved. all this, as another criminal investigation looks into the trump inaugural committee's fund-raising. plus -- >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security. >> a showdown over the federal budget a border policy. >> taking full responsibility for a trump shutdown. >> we cover these stories, next.

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moderator robert costa. >> good evening. president trump is facing a barrage of investigations and political challenges, ahead of divided government next year. in the probes from the speciall coun to u.s. attorneys in new york continue to vex this white house, bringing figures from the president's past to this turbulent president. e president's former personal attorney michael cohen once said he'd take a bullet for mr. trump.en but now cohs a convicted felon, cooperating with prosecutors. he was sentenced this week for three years in prison for lying to congress and other crimes. cohen t insists mmp knew the hush payments had -- he madeo women in the 2016 elections were l, a charge mr. trump denies. prosecutors pay thelisher of the national enquirer, david pecker, admitted the tabloid paid thousands to a woman who claims she once had an affair

with mr. trump. a lot to cover. four respected and deeply sourced white house correspondents. maggie haberman, a pulitzer-prize winning reporter for the new york times and a cnn contributor. kristen welker of nbc news. jeff zeleny of cnn. and seung min kim of the washington post and an analyst cnn. maggie, welcome to "washington week." i really appreciate you being here. >> thank you for having me. >> what does this tell u maggie, about president trump amid all this michael cohen news? you've covered both men for many years. whatoes it tell us? what does it reveal about the president? >> i think, look, michael cohen described a different donald trump in an intervi with george stephanopoulos earlier today. he talked about trump being different than the man he knew. i personally think this is the same man that we saw in new york over many years. but it reveals this incredibly, you know, unusual, certainly for what we see from presidents,

relationship where you have a kiperson who is t about his blind loyalty in terms that wey don't norma hear, even in the crucible politics, by michael cohen, talking about that he was essentially, you know, brainwashed. that's not his word. but he was devoted and devt in e service of donald trump. and that that led him to commit all sorts of dirty deeds, as he put it. the psident, you know, insisted michael cohen should have known what he was doing was against the lawhi and i you have a relationship -- in the case of what michael cohen is saying, that donald trump certainly knew about it. nothing happened at trump tower without his knowledge, that is definitely the experience for ose of us who have covered him wd his business and his relationshh someone like michael cohen, for a very long time. where this goes now, ihink, remains to be seen. i think the question is, does michael cohen getef callede congress to say these things again, you know, facing possible

perjury charges if he lies under oath? rehamber, that's something he pleaded to, lying to congress, something that he pleaded guilty to a few weeks ago. whatoes he do? how much more potential damage does he cause the president before he goes -- >> maggie, when you tal td rudy giuliani in the white house, is there a high level of anxiety abou this argument they're now making that it was a personal matter, not campaign matter? do they feel like that's going to hold? >> it's bifd, take out the white house and insert trump and his private lawyers and people organizatiotru the white house is operating as if this is not happening, it's in thether day administration for people who are staff members there for the team,ent, for his leg for people at the trump organization, it's a very different ball game.yo have rudy giuliani trying to suggest that, you know, this was a pvate transaction that michael cohen is a liar, that he was disloyal to the president and made that clear in the fact that he secretly tape-recorded

him, an audio recording that has become a key piece of evidence in this case. we know that it was use by prosecutors. they are arguing that the president does not have any legal exposure. he certainly has legal exposwhe. her that means he's in legal jeopardy remains to be seen. again, their argument is you can't believe anything michael cohen says. yet the government clearly did believe him on thisue i and said that it was corroborated by other pieces ofe. evide >> that's a smart point, because part of the reason the government seems to backch up l cohen injury, jeff, is you have david pecker from the national enquirer and ame mea saying -- cooperating with the government and saying michael cohen is telling a straight story. >> and that, i think, when you sum up everything that happened this week -- and these weeks get confusing because there's so many internal movements. david pecker, he's not a household name, but the national enquirer certainly is. he's a longtime friend of the

president. the esident has been silent about david pecker. but he has a cooperation agreement, an immunity agreement. it corroborates this story. that we learned this week, confirmed this week that mr. trump was in the room, candidate trump, was in the room during those conversations. that's why this week, ihink, different than other weeks. that's why this week matters more, because you see so many friends of the president who now are agreeing, cooperating with prosecutors, and that has to get to the president. you can see it i his demeanor. you can see it in his actions. you talk to people behind the scenes. it bothers him in that respect. we've seen so many times the president has dismissed aids. that's somhat true. not this week. michael cohen, david pecker, longtime friends of president. >> you brought up that president trump wasmn the r the summer of 2015. does that point to the justdent's conduct, n during the closing days of the

campaign but for two years now, being undercriny from prosecutors? >> it points to his deepening involvement in this, bob. no doubt about that. that w two months after candidate trump had announced his candacy for the presidency. and so i think that that is what is so strikg about t fact that we now know, according to our sources, that he was i room when they were discussing ways to quash these stories by women making these allegations against then-presidential candidate trump. we don't know specifically whats trump aying in those meetings. i think it's important to point that out. but, again, you're starting to see puzzle pieces dom together. that's -- come together. that's why i think president trump, the white house, increasingly concerned about the potential legal exposure but also the political peril that president trump may be in. publicly he said, look, he' not concerned about this, not concerned about impeachment the i-word, of course, what all of washington has started to talk about. but privately he started to tell

his friends and allies that he worrs it could be a real possibility. >> what about, seung min, we also learned about this week gathered from the raid of cohen's office and home, launched yet another criminl investigat into the trump inaugural committee. when you're up on clinical talking to -- on capitol hill talking to republicans, what do they think about this being a added to the m all the cohen news on top of it? >> they are just overwhelmed. like we are, with all the legal woes. i think a lot of -- it's getting difficult. it's getting more difficult for congressional republicans to but in president's explanations, because we've seen, particularly regarding the information, that his explanation about whether he knew the payments at all ore whether directed him, they've just shifted so much over time. i had a lot of internvting sations with particularly with republican senators about, can you believe this p wsident anymorn he tweets on thursday morning that he never directed cohen to make these payments? you know, can you buy that explanation? and you get varied answers.

his alliesill say, yes, i do trust him. look at cohen. he is not a val source either. others say we gotta let all the prosecutors, both i new york and washington, do their work. others saying, look, we like hii es. let's kind of brush that stuff raide. but on the demc end, you're just getting more ammunition. again, they're still kind of afraid to touch that i-word. s itll politically toxic for a lot of members of their party but they're seeing little bits here and there. you have jerry nadler saying these look like impeachable offenses. i was having a conversatiorom a democrat senator. obviously they will remain in the minority. but he's writing a letter saying i want d.o.j. to reevaluate whether their guidance is that a sitting president can't b indicted. there's a lot going on here. >> maggie, what do you make of that? theepublican partyeems to be

holding for now behind president trump. but will that baseit stick this president, amid what's happened with michael cohen? the prident has changed his story. do those trump voters care? >> i think right now they don't care. i think your point, though, isor an int one, that i was thinking about before, which is that he has changed his story. th i presidents very used to leading a consequence-free life where he can s basically whatever he wants and there are minima ramifications for it. i think this is the first week where we are seeing, he is just hitting sort of a harder wall of reality given what happened with chael cohen. i do think that his base is going to say this is a personal issue. is is a private matter. this is his private life. this is his marriag i think it stays here, i think in all likelihood, republicanstaontinue to by the president. i think we just don't know what else michael cohen has told investigators and psecutors. i think that is going to com out in the coming weeks and

months. and i think that is the big threat for the president. also, remember, the president's advisories have alway-- advisors have always viewed the nichael cohen as more perilous to the president t the mural mueller case. they alwayselieved that's where there was vulnerability and i don't think it necessarily ends with stormy daniels. knowggie haberman, we david pecker is cooperating, michael cohen. the longtime finance head of the trump organizion, he'seen pretty quiet. >> he's been pretty quiet but what he has been doing is being pretty careful about getting his own lawyer, which is not nothin we reported that he is no longer being represented by the group counselhe representing trump organization. he has his own attorney now, alan weissleburg. hed has wor for the trump organization for over 30 years. he was truly involved in all of these deals, all ofhese expenditures. he knows basically where every penny was gone.

he wnvolved with the trump foundation, which the new york attorney general is looking at. he handled the trump private trust which essentially is the president's own personal money, once he took office. and he knows where everything is spent in the business. this is going to be a pressure point. the prosecutors are going to try to squeeze. people around the president are concerned.in >> spe about squeezed, if you're a house democrat right now, forget about robert mueller's special counsel yoinvestigation. could say there's a felony here. could the democrats say -- i know you they're being careful, but maybe they say this is enough for impeachment.l >> that w the test for house democrats. but there's a lot of wise house democrats or former who say slow down, allow the investigation to proceed. don't get yourselves in the middle of all this. i think i was struck by thehe advice by mayor of chicago, aim longte house democrat. he urged the democrats in t house to focus on the cabinet. other things, not the president.

inwe'll see. terms of one word the president said this week that i've not heard him say before, he said, they were trying to embarrass me. to me, that was a sign taking us back to maybe the bill clinton stuff. it's just about sex. what we learn, though, this week, every fet of donald trump's life is likely now being ttvestigated. the inaugural com. the super p.a.c. the trump organization and indeed his white house it's more than just the hush money. i think the campaign finance violation, it's more glamorous maybe, more sexy, if you will, but i think the are signs thi week that there are more deepening worries to come for this white house. >> is the white house ready for th political storm? on friday, the president announced mick mulvaney, the budget b director, wil his acting chief of staff. but from the chief of staff position to white house counsel's office, are they prepared for this storm? the think you raise critical point. it's not clear that they are, bob. it's not car that theyave an aapparatus in place to deal with what we know is coming from

democrats. that i are unified on one point, which is they thinkhe should be more oversight of this president. there are going to be investigations and subpoenas as well. it's not clear that he has a team in place to deal with that. you mentioned mick mulvaney. we got that announcement at the end of the day tod, that he's going to serve as the acting chief of staff. there was a very roc process get here today. his first pick, ayers, talks with him fell apart. this i a 36-year-old political upstart who everyone thought would be jumping at the chance for t. j there have been a lot of twist and turns along the way. the president feltike he needed to have someone in that role to brace for what is coming in the new year. >> maggie, real quick, what's your read on the mulvaney appointment? >> i think that the president engaged in a fair amount of willful misdirection about where he was going with this. as one administration official put it to me, it was the eternal pl b, mick mulvaney. he's already wearing two

different now he is taking on another one. look, i think he is somebody who checks a fair number of boxes for the president, that he was looking for. is a former member of congress, so he can at least help him understand andig ne certains a pebts -- aspects of what's coming we have the change of the guards. and he is somebody who the president personally is comfortable with. they've played manyous of golf together. you know, he is somebody who has aapport with the president. what he is not is sort t ofs scrappy type of fighter than you would have seen in a chris christie or some other choices. thehe is somebody who kno building, which i think appeals to the president. he is not somebody who is going to havom to take time to come in. and i think by calling him acting, the president gavef himsome flexibility. he can -- he didn't put a time limit on it. he can stretch -- acting can suddenly last into 2020 or acti could be a couple of

months long. i don't think we know where it's ing to go. i do think it is interesting that he would not have ayers as the acting chief of staff or interim, whi is what ayers had been from the very beginning of that negotiation, saying he would do. the president didn't want that. it was a time limit he rejected. but he is okay with this one because it's on his o terms. there's a lot more to this story. >> in mid-december, he wanted to make a move, as kristen said, and as you just said. but it was not just michael cohen and the chief keef chief f news. the senate voted to withdraw u.s. militar assistance for saudi arabia's war in yemen as f punishme the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. lawmakers agreed to overhaul how sexual misconduct cases are handled. but the issue is a possible government shutdown. there was a spirited exchange as thesi pnt and democrat

leaders sparred over a spending bill. the president is demanding $5 billion to build a border wall. democrats say they're willing to provide up to $1.6 billion. >> one thing i think we can agree on, we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute and you want to shut it down. you keep talking about it. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security. >> seung min kim, are we going to hav a shutdown next week or is it going to be a stop gap th keeps the government funded for a few weeks? >> well, things don't look great at this point, a week out from a potential shutdown. there has been discussion already, particularly from richard shelby, the senate appropriations committee chairman, powerful guy, that me kind of stopgap fundings through january 3 might be necessary to avert a partial government shutdown. but it is fashenating how two sides are just so dug in. look,he's probably less than 1% chance that democrats would agree on $5 billion for a border

wall. before that remarkable oval office exchange, and now after trump proudly said he would take ownership sor atdown, there is a zero chance. there's barely a constituenc on capito hill for instigating a shutdown for a border w funding like the president wants. perhaps some of his allies are willing to go with that, but i talked to a lot of repubapcans onol hill just about that remarkable moment and his owning that shutdown and i found cornyn, the number two in the senate from texas, comments to me remarkable. he justan said, i don't under the strategy. maybe he'll explain it, but i don't get it. w >> tte house seems to be walking back, kristen. >> the president seemed toac wak it in a tweet the very next day, saying, look, hopefully we don't want tohut down. >> would he accept even 1.6, 2 billion? >> i think so. life bn speaking to white house officials, who haven't

said that exactly, but he wants a better deal. it is clear they don't want to own a shutdown. as we were just saying, bottom line is republicans don't want to own that and the president doesn't really feel as though he has the leverage. so ihe think, if can find a way to find some type of commonu , perhaps that would avert a shutdown. to your point, what's most likely is that stopgap measure. >> that scene inside of the oval office, silent vice president s pence, therring between the daughter of a former baltimore mayor, nowanrancisco's likely speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. president trump from new york. chuck schumer from new york. is that a preview of 2019, jeff? of all the extraordinary scenes we have seen in the oval office and there have been a lot of them, this certainly i a window into what's to come. a lot of -- all three of the participants and four if you count the silent vice presidenth learne the dynamic is different. beendent trump has never confronted like that in his oval

office. he's largely surrounded himself by aides who are in agreement. it's clear why republicans weren't invited. that was supposed to be off-camera. he invited the camas in. all sides were, you know, showing off a little bit. a, it solidified nancy pelosi's speakership position or certainly helped her toward that. but this is a window into the fact that pnt trump is not going to get everything he wants. but anrenspoken dynamic t was the one between schumer and pelosi, which we don't talk lot about. we'll talk about it next year. but that is interesting as well. so i wonder if the president will try andivide them at all. they cannot give him an inch. his presidency could haveeen so much different had he started with infrastructure with his old huck schumer. but that's water under the bridge. >> seung min, a moment for ader pelosi. she fends off a moderate rebelian,ebels inside of her conference, almost immediately after that whole meeting.

>> exactly. this is one of the arguments that she and her allies are making all along. look, she is a fighter. she has been at the o top the democrat ranks for 16 years. she has negotiated witulple presidents. she knows what she's doing. she's the best counter on the hill. you can't have a newbie in the position she was in, on that couch, sparring with president trump. plus the fact that sh able to agree to -- she was able to come to a deal with the so-called rebels, threatening her potential speakship, by essentially term limiting herself. says she'll be out by 2022. that really helped her solidify just her hold on that gavel. we've talked f n weeks how we all expect nancy pelosi to get there. we just didn't know how. she did. >> maggie, when you think about the real story here, there's thi pol theater of everything we all watch. but we also heard that president trump was on the phone with leader pelosi, hours after that whole scene, talking through a possible deal. we saw criminal justice reform

bills get some real actionek ths n capitol hill. beyond the theater, is this a president who could be pretty transactional next year or not? >> oh, i think if he's ae to be, almost definitely. as we know, he tends to treat everything a a if it'sn open-ended negotiation. you put it very well. officeppened in the ova was theater. he got something out of it. you know, he had a base that was rather about that criminal justice reform bill going through. so he got to look tough about the wall, which is a core campaign promise. nancy pelosi got what she wanted, which was taking the fight to him. of course, they're back on the phone trying to work something out. i think he is going to do what he can to be transactional. i don't -- i think that nancy pelosi and chuck schum are going to have the leverage in that relationship, especially to jeff's point, if they stick together. so i think that while the president feels likean he extract all kinds of concessions, he's just not in a potion to get thatuch right

now. witness them talking about thise stopgap meao avert a shutdown that will allow him to -ave. nobo and go on vacation to palm beach. he doesn't want a shutdown. the democrats don't want a shutdown. and i think that where you are going to see him behaviorally is going to be very different than what we have seen in the l yt fewrs. >> such a sharp point. the president wants to go to mar-a-lago, play golf, see some family. members want to go home. is this all about, on both sides, scoring points and cutting a deal? >> sure. congress is not working through th weekend. all members of congress, house and senate, were leaving washington oriday. they're coming back monday night, tuesday. so, no, like every shutdown ght before this, you get the sense that something will be worked out. the question here, though, is, you know, is the president - his word ever going to be good? he said he would own it. you always have to leave open the window of possibility that he may do something unpredictable. but in this sense, right before

christmas, don't think he wants to spoil christmas. >> i think that's right. this is a president who understands optics. he's a genius when it comes to that in many ways. d imagine the optics of a government shutdown. even if it's partial, on christmas day, that's going to be tough for president tmp politically. and i think one of the pressure points is they don't really have a plan b for reopening the government. when you talk to folks inside the white house and on capitol hi s and you, what if there is a government shutdown? well, it's likely going toro go h the new year. one republican said to me, if that happens, we could lose the suppor t of country. >> we'll have to leave it there tonight. thanks, everybody, for joining realreciate it. us. our conversation will continue on the "washington week" podcast. you can find it on your favorite podcast app or download it from our website. i'm robert costa. thanks for joining us and haveaa weekend! ♪[music]

>> funding is provided by... financia services firm, raymond james. newman's own foundation. donating all profits from newman's own food products to charity and nourishing the common good. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. f the yundation. committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you! >> you're watching pbs.

paul, wishing you a very happy christmas. my love, mary. mary. narrator: this christmas, mary and paus bakes will take you through the festive season in spectacular sle. wow, it's good. that's lovely. paul: the idea is to get people trying something different this christmas, and hopefully it becomes a tradion in their houses. narrator: mary makes a snowy-white christmas wreath pavlova... oh, it is christmas. don't you dare. don't get it too close.