robert: a breach in the cabinet and congress on the brink. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> eve nation has the right but the absolute duty to protect its borders and its citizens. without borders, we have the reign of chaos, crime, cartels. robert: president trump digs in on his request for billions for a border wall. rattling capitol hill and the markets. and he announces u.s. troops will leave syria. >> we've been fighting for a long time in syria. i've been president for almost two years. and we've really only stepped it up. and we have won against isis. robert: but leadingpuepublicans back. >> to say they're defeat is an

ement and it's fake news. >> the decision to withdraw an american presence in syria is a colossal in my mind mistake, graver >> that's going to have significant repercussions in the importants and years -- in the years to come. and defense secretary james ttis resigns. this is "washington week." announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- >> kevin. >> kevin. > kevin. >> advice for life. life well planned. learn more ataymondjames.com. announcer: funding is provided by, newman's own foundation donating all profits from newman's own to charitynd nourishing the common good. quat andcia yuen committed

to bridging culturales differe in our community. the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to yr pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. announcer: once again from washington, moderator robert oosta. robert: evening. you join us live on friday night as capitol hill is buzzing just days basore chris our reporters have been closely tracking the showdown over president trump's ultimatum of funding for a border wall. here is what y need to know. the president, he wants $5 billion for the wall to be included in the latest government funding bill. but so far the republican-controlled congress on the eve of divided government has struggled to f d the votes to say the least. and the president's demand hasre sparked ay tonight at the capital as lawmakers trying to

avert a partial shutdown at midnight tonight.re >>dent trump, you will not get your wall. abandon your shutdown strategy. you're not gettinghe wall today, next week or on january 3rd whentr democrats take c of the house. robert: now, there is a planth senate on wednesday passed what reporters called a clean bill. in other wor, it doesn't include the $5 billion the president wants for his wall but it wld fund theovernment through early february. the clock though, it's tick ticking. molly ball joins us from "time" magazine. peter baker chief white house correspondent for therk "new times." kimberly atkins for "the "boston herald"." and jake sherman senior editor of politico's playbook. thanks so much for joining us on this busy evening. we appreciate it.

where do things stand in termsh of negotiation. there's a lot of talk among top aids that maybe there's aro cose in the works to not give the president $5 billion but $1.6 billion. >> that's right. i mean, the government just to be clear, the government is almost without a doubt shutting down in about four hours. it was a fascinati scene. republicans and democrats in the senate decided to proceed to a bi basically to debate a bill to buy time so they c come up with a global agreement so they could pass all seven lingering appropriations bills in the coming day here. so there are seven bills that need to be passed, to deal with a big slice of government. they're going to try to work over the next couple of days to get it done. there are a lot of pressure points as you noted, $1.6 billion is about as much as democrats will allow fororder security, not the president's wall, but border security. and i justalked to jim jordan, the conservative republican from ohio. he said $1.6 billion is not going to do it for me.

that's the reaction you're going to get from conservatives across the capitol. the question is what does donald trump do? does he embrace a lower total $1.6 billion instead of $5 billion to avoid a prolong shutdown untext year. it's not clear. but vice president mike pence is just around thehe coroner capitol with jared kushner and mulvaney to do shutt diplomacy literally going from the house and the senate trying to negotiate a deal. robert: and some moderate senators, retiringca repub like jeff flake and bob corker they sm to be going on tonight. >> he seemed hesitant to take. jeff flake switched his vote. voted no. and tn voted yes when he had assurances that negotiations would happen. it definitely a last gasp from bob corker who told us literally yeerday that he was going home and not coming back and thanked

us for all of our work in covering us for the years. i guess he decided that he was going to have one more deal-making session. is isn't a complicated deal. this deal has been cooked for a long time. the question is will donald trump accept the $1.6 billion. and we don't have an answer at this point. robert: bob corker told reporters to go have a scotc ile everyone waits for these negotiations to finish. i promisere just having water and coffee. the vice president, mick mule -- mulvaney. and the president said he would be willing to have a government shutdown. is the whoice walking back -- white house walking back that nomand? >> you don't what he's going to do. one minute he says yes. the next minute he says no. earlier it looked like he was going to accept a temporary solution. then he got his backup once the

conservative media, rush limbaugh began pummeling him for caving i it's hard to negotiate if you don't know that your negotiating partner isicoing to to a position longer than a day, basically. robert: you've beeth coverin democrats over the last few weeks likely speaker nancy pelosi, she's holding theine. es she feel and her allies feel that the president is boxed in here that he has to accept the $1.6 billion f the wall? >> they do. and they're somewhat vindicated by the fat the next over appears to be comingown the pipe is their original position. they haven't budged. and republicans areg try give them what they want, the original senate deal gave the democrats what they wanted. to be c the president is never going to have more leverage than he does right now. he's still got the house. he still got both houses of congress. h no does need 60 republican votes to get something through

the senat there was unimaginable level of relief in capitol hill particularly among republicans when earlier this week, he not only signaled that h would support this deal but tweeted in support of it. but then as peter said, he changed his mind. even with mike pence and jared kushner, nobody on h capitl feels they can trust any of the people negotiating on trump's behalf or eve negotiating directly with trump because he can turn around and change h mind. and so, you know, everybody there would just likeo go home. and nobody is as invested in the border wall as the president is. the reasonen that thee unanimously passed this deal that didn't includer a bor wall, it included aam nominal nt of border security is they don't care about the wall as much as trump does. and theouse doesn't care about the wall as much as he does. and that's why they've not been funding the wall because he's the one who wants this. he's the one who is going to have to insist on this to get it

done and even then it may not. robert: if the talks continue, the government will shut down. what does that mean for federal workers? >> that meansbout 25%f the government, their employees will be furlowed, meaning they won't go to work or get paid. or they wl have to to work and not get paid. either way. these aren't people just here in washington. these are people throughout the country. they're working at some of the most -- the key agencys that the presiden is talking about when it comes to border security, right? we're talking about -- we're lking about homeland security. the d.o.j., customs and border enforcement, the very folks that are the focus of these talks t will b one showing up to work every day because they are mostly essential. and -- and not being paid while this fight plays out which is the ing i'm not sur president has thought that part of it through, the optics of it, pl b, it's rightore christmas. it's terrible optics and there

are folks on the republican side that it doesn't look good for. >> it's part of the pressure points here. what about the markets tumbling today? hashat forced lawmaker to try to get a deal done? >> i can't remember the last time i heard any member of congressalk about the stock market which is shocking to think about. but i does play into the backdrop of the political climate at the moment. th president obvious is exceedingly focused on the stock market and the economic indicators across the economy basically. but i will say they feel comfortable in this shutdown which is ironic because saturday and sunday are weekends and a lot of the government is not open on weekends and monday and tuesday are feder holidays. the president just duclaired chrimas eve the government's closed on christmas eve. so they feel like they could actually keep the government closed. they have some cushion. if i had to guess though, there will be some agreement here in

the next 24 to 36 hours. that's jus the sense tha i get from being in the hallways and talking to peesm thereere some people that thought there might be an agreement tonight. they have to give their members 24 hours to get back to washington many people went home. carlos corbelo from florida was on a flight to miami tonleight. peeed to get back here. and we'll see that in the next couple of days. robert: i want to get something, peter, that you brouppingt. the rightliing reb. it seemed like a deal was eminent that they would have some kind of short-term resolution. then you heard about fox news and rush limbaugh saying the president was caving. there's a tyranny of the white wing driving this president.o he's listening the conservative voices more than voices that are associated with him in congress. >> ann coulter has more of an

impact. mitch mcconnell has gotten throughhat he could do on legs. and yet, when annoulter write as tough column saying the president has failed in his most signature campaign promise. and this is his most signaturea ca promise, he gets worked about it. he unfollows her. but is following her in terms of his policy priorities at the moment. he getssi very sve with this. you hear former aides and t current aidek about the way to shape his thinking is to make sure you get your people out on fox new to describe what is going on. and they didn't do that. they didn't get their side fut news for them to hear. >> but i wonder is that t story with president trump? on one level he's constaly listening to the right-wing? but they passed a criminal justice reform bill. what's the real story in the

divided government? >> those are two things he would do victory laps over. we have increased pressure from the mueller investigation. things going wrong. u tend to see the president want to fight. he feels sort of in his -- in his element when he's fighting a fight and he has an opponent. and he went right back to the wall which is just a part of his identity at this point. he loves fighting that battle over the wall. it was driven in part by the conservative media commentators. weth it brings him back to his base. we saw a fiar thing happen whd enthe larger imagine gration reform fizzled out. there was a deal at the last minute. the white house tor pedestrianoed it because he was reminded your base doesn't want amnesty, they want the wall. robert: is that what this really comes down to, molly? this whole showdown on a friday night, is it about the president signaling to that core voter, we may have to have a deal at the end of the day, but at least i

ught until the 11th hour? >> the theme of the trump presidency for the last two years has been that he ishe president for this base of trump lovers trump supporters and not for the rest of america. he's not particularly interested in the ft that he's gotten approval rating in the hie 30's. and just experienced a repudiation in the that doesn't bother him. what i don't really understand is what would happen if he were try to lead them on this issue rather than bng led b them? because on all sorts of issues, he's led the republican bas on uncharted territory. ether it's been unfriendly against vladimir putin. whether it's been against law enforcement, against jeff sessions previously revered by the republican base, on all kinds of issues. he has been the one leading the base. and they have fold him. the famous fifth avenue quote, right? he could do anything. and they would follow him there.

and yet on immigration, he continues to feel th this is the deal that he has to follow, not just the base, but even majorities of republican voters or trump supporters don'ty necessarpport a super hard line on immigration or the wall itself and yet the a coulters of the world who represent a small slice of that republican base, he absolutely niels he cannot earn their displeasure. robert: if theyit do come up a spending agreement, based on what molly just said, if they're up in armbout any kind of deal, does that mean an agreement wil likelyave to pass through the house and the senate with mostly dvoocratic s? >> it will pass the senate for 90 votes becausere bothn agreement with the broad spectrum of agreement. but the real danger for the president and kevinccarthy and paul ryan who is halfway out the door at this point is that a majority ofrepublicans in the house do not support the deal. and that's seally, reallyry for this president because he'sp

communicatvately that they really need a majority of republicans on ts bill. one more point here. paul ryan and kevin mccarthy have been promising this border wall fight for almost two years. theyept telling him let's push it off. and they'reay finallyg where is this fight. now you've stole me for -- told we we are going to have this fight. eed to have this fight. that's why i think the president ff the fighting so hard because he's put it for so long and he thinks it's time to have this showdown. robert: let's turn to another big topic this week. president trump suddenly announced that he's pulling u.s. forces of syria rocking officials at the pentagon who were not expecting the nouncement. president trump has advocated for pulling troops from syria r a long time. but the decision without careful coordination surprised james mattis. he is conceed as one of the

steadiest hands in the cabinet. he resigned after this. in his resignation letter he wrote, i believe it is right for me totep down from my position. peter, a monumental breac in the cabinet. this was not a retirement as president trump tweeted. this was a resignation of rebuke. >> a resignation protest which is not a common thing in washington. a lot of times people might quit government but they don say s as they leave the door because they're unhappy with the president easily not advantageous to him. james mattis made very clearwh his problems are. he said we ought to be standing up to the chinese and the w russians a ought to be standing with the germans an and the british and therefore it's time for me to leave. this is oddly enough as we're talking about the president's following the lead ofs conservatie opposite of that.

onis is where he's taking on the dominantrvative thinking of his party which tends to be more hawkish. definitely pro jim mattis. you heard lindsey graham being stic in his response saying this is an obama-like mistake. you've got this odd dichotomy whige he's with the on the border wall. and he's against the right onom pulling and in his view this is all of a peace. it's all about the same thing, america first. he sees a connection that is ideologically coherent. but it exposes a lot of fissures. robert: when you think about this idea that secretary tattis wa adult in the room that's wilingds wildly talked about in washington. who plays a role that measure are america first instinct? is it secretary pompeo or john bolton the national security advisor? >> i think nobody knows. and this's why so many are

frightened. you heard a real sense of panic from some of the most sober-minded and patrician minds in washington members of the national security establish kwloment even up to n have -- evelopment even up to now have experienced hands who are there literally ho would swat his finger away from the brtton if it got to that point.e and those peo aren't there nip. none of them aren't there. m tillersoht have been counted as one of this group in the past. id so there is less and less feeling that the any check on trump. this is why you're seeing the markets swoon. this is why you're seeing a real sense of fear andn trepidation i washington is the concern that maybe he really has cast-off all these restraints. for the first two years of his presidency, i think of the signal promises of trumpism that

countervened the bipartisan consensus as being trade, foreign policy, and immigration. there was aipartisan really consensus in the democratic establishment against tariffs and trade ws against pulling troops out of all the placese are abroad and against building a wall. he has figured out if he gets rid of these people who have been hol bng himk, he can do all of this stuff and that is deeply disruptive. sebert: beyond that, he's disruptive with t wars. what does that mean in afghanistan and in syria, kim? >> yeah, i mean, it remains to be see there are about 2200 floops northern syria, not a huge amount. but it brings back memories of iraq. when we had a draw down there and it left vuum in which isis was able to thrive and that if theea focus as president trump said so forcefully during

his campaign is fighting these terrorist groups because they pose such a danger to the united states telt this could very be a premature declaration of victory. and beyond that. i mean, it is when it comes to mattis's resignation, it is about these two different views of -- of how to approach this. but it's also a world view that is soifferent. his letter was so extraordinary. i think thinke wrote ito the history books to lay out very clearly not -- for the world, really. that the united states should be standing wit its allies. the united states should be clear-eyed about its adversaries and work towards those interests. and the president doesn't believe that. it's a stunnin rebuke. >> jake, the view on capitol hill are they sutnned a secretary mattis's departure or is president trump still in ll grip of his own party? >> i think we have to keep in mind that on capitol hill people like mattis and pompeo and john

kelly, are the people more with theongress. so they have a rapport with this ople and they dealith them a lot. there's a lot of shock. you saw mitch mcconnell last night issue a very strong-worded statement aut mattis's departure which was stunning for him, stunning for a congressionaleader. you saw a similar one, paul ryan issued oneohhen kelly announced his resignation. now, is he in full control of his party? i think he's ling someontrol with some of these decisions. you are seeing people like marco rubio and lindsey graham take very serious issue with his military decision. the fact that he is not briefing people -- i mean, listen, republicans had a lot o disagreements with obama about his military strategy, his foreign policy, but he briefed key players onit c hill tall time, kept them in the know.

robert: who the frontrunn to replace secretary mattis? senator todd cotton or somebod else? >> i think tom cotton disagrees with asot of thi that the president has done. i think that it would be helpful ifwo id be somebody from the senate because they would have an easier time getting through confirmation. but it's a little too early to say. robert: peter, you mentioned how this underscoresresident trump's instincts on foreign policy. it'sot a george w. bush hawk. has he always been is that where this republican party is going? there's aut discussion a mattis's departure and him as a person. where is this administration going in terms of foreign policy? >> these are things he talked about consistently,el passion and repeatedly as a candidate. he has felt held back. held back by the congress, jim mattis as molly was saying by

all the people around him. and he does seem to be feeling mo liberated now. his view is not that different from president obama's which is a waste of our resources to be inmeshed in these middle east conflicts that we can't solve anyway. the difference with trump is process howou go aboutoing it. you don't leave your defense secretary so upset about process that he decides to resign. you don't leave the chairman of e joint chief of staff out of the room without any consequences. but he has always said, he thinks america should be focused back at home. less interventionist or less on the ground where all people are killed. robert: you don't seethnyone in g.o.p. with that same view. >> if you talk about going t the senate, i don't know who would agree with them at least the large scale. jack keane used to be vice chair

of the joint chiefs -- he's a very hawkish figure. i can't imagine him doing that. >> the closest could be senator rand paul of kentucky. >> that would be an interesting turn of events. >> he shares the views. >> you hav about 30 secon left. >> even of rand paul is that we can't overlookhe russia angle, the fact that president trump td w was most advantageous for president putin. and the facthat h has gone against the interest of our allies and againstnternational institutions like nato. robert: what a night. we have to leave it there. thank you for joining us tonight. our conversation will continue on the podcast. you can find that on our website and on your favorite podcast app. i'm robert costa, thank for joining us. and enjoy the holidays.

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