robert: the government remains shut down. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> i can't tellheou when t government is going to be open. i cansell you it' not going to be open until we have a wall, a fence whatever they'd likell to t. robert: the government shutdown extends into 2 as president c trump angress battle over funding for a border wall.in washington, uncertainty comes amid volatility on wall street. plus, the president makes his first trip to a combat zone and defends his decision to draw down troops in syria. >> we're not the suckers of the worl we're no longer the suckers. we're respected again as a nation. robert: we cover it all, next. ♪

announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- >> kevin. >> kevin. >> kevin. advise for life. life well planned. learn more at raymondjames.co announcer: funding is provide by newman's own foubdation, donating all profits to charity and nourishing the common good. qu and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation committed to bridging cultul differences in our communities. the excellence and journal foundation. the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from l viewerse you. thank you. a onin from washington, moderator robert costa. robe: good evening. the federal government shutdown

heads into the new year. with rth trump demandi $5 -- with president trump demanding $5 billion for a border wall. hundreds of thousands ofederal employees work without pay. about 380 thoushes have bn furloughed and he not been guaranteed their backpay. that's aording to the "associated press" and air traffic controllers have been deemed essential and are working with bt pay for now will be paid once the government reopens. joining me s tonight,nna thomas for vice news. brian bennett, white housepo corrent for "time" magazine. lisaja dins, for the pbs newshour, and eric warner for "the washington post." on friday, this war of words, it took anoth tn. president trump threatened to close the border if his demands are not met and the acting white

house chief of staff mick mulvaney blamed nancy pelosi for the impasse. >>nk i thuck schumer and the senate democrats probably would cut a deal. t they're protecting mrs. pelosi. if she cuts a deal with the president of any sort before hen election onry 3rd, she's at risk of losing her speakership. so we're in this t for long haul. robert: we're in this for the long hau the reins over washington, the shutdownnu con. the acting chief of staff is there on the white house lawn talking toreporters. but where are the talks right now? are where is the urgency? >> isn't that interest. there is no urgency, there are no talks. all of the congressional leers are atome. u.k. and louisville are playing each other in basketbl. senator mcconnell will be there in all l it's unlike past shutdowns where

you have negotiations that were ongoing, you know, moment by moment until it was resolved. that's not the case this time.e' th an understanding that this doesn't get resolved until dem take their seat on january 3rd. robert: is he playing toward the base? is that why he's digging in? >> he wants to be talking about border security and the wall. that's what heants to talk about. he thinks it's winning with his base. he wants to put the democrats on the spot with it. so he's very comfortable having this spot. there are certain people in the white house that have advised him to do this. this is something he wants to do. and he seems like h wants to dig in and try to make a point. he hasn't made any plans to go down to mar-a-lago at this point. he may miss the annual mar-a-lago new year's party.

bert: what about the federal employees? what's their reality at this moment? >> the last couple of days, i've ben tweeting with many federal employees. right now, it's the worst case scenario for most feral employees. they could miss the next paycheck, january 11t we got some news. coast guard employees were active duty -- there were some news they might be missing their rdycheck. the coast gold me there's an update that they will get that paycheck on monday. that's a big deal. overall, i talked to people who have delayed surgeries because they're worried g notting enough money to pay for co-pays. nobody's missing mortgage payments yet. but they're nervous that could happen in the next couple of weeks. >> throws the stories that will start to change this snversation as people m paychecks, people who live month -- paycheck toayeck, month to month, those are the stories that mediae people l us are

going to start to tell. we're going to find those where lots of government workers work. and that's going to get -- that's going to increase the pressure on the president as well as nancy pelosi. >> what does nancy pelosi when she likely wins the gavel? does she reopen the government without border fun u funds? -- without border funds? >> yes. whether that's to try to put the bill on the floor that funds the government through february 8th with no border funds or try to move a continuing resolution to just fund the rest of the government throu sort of october 1st. one of those options nancy pelosi is going to move to do that to show she can punt it over to the senate. what does mitch mcconnell do? i talked to some peoplen the senate and the house. they haven't spoken. we know the president has not

spoken nancy pelosi. >> i know that talks are pretty nonexistent. but has the white house begin any private signal that the democrats that they would be willing to ask for a lower number? >> before things stopped happening on saturday, there were talks on the hill, vice president pence was up there along with mulvaney and others. and the white house did come down substantially. they came down to 2.5. so they cut that figure in half. the problem though from democrats' perspective, is they don't want to bewiegotiating pence or mulvaney or anyone but trump. because they feel like any dea they strike with anyone that's not trump, trump could turn around and pull the rug out from under. we saw that happen when mitch mcconnell forced the senate to pass aer short bill that did not have that border wall funding. that was done on the

understanding that tru would support that bill. the very next morn, he did a turnaround under pressure from conservative press and lawmakers. and he went through hisan suppo. here we are. robert: why is the white house leverage. they have they keep moving in an aggressive way to talk about militaryizg the borderr shutting down the border? do they actually belief the demoats will break for that? >> i think he's created some openings wre he said things like you could call it a fence or a wall or slats. that createsn aening about the definition of a wall. but then when he talk about shutng down the border, that from his perspective that's going to create leverage. m going to make the stakes higher if c democrats don'te to the table. >> it's not about $5 billion. this federal government could fund $5 billion. it's about the fact that the wall is a symbol of somhing. for democrats, the wall is a others out.keeping

it's a symbol of racism, it's aa symbol of they ran against. but nancy pelosi has to hold blind on. and i think she believes herself. for the president it is a campaign promise. it is a symbol of america first. how do you argue around a symbol when it isn't about the money because $5 billion isn't a lot in our government.s >> that symbolism important? because you think tpat congress a $67 million farm bill and the thing that is shutting down the government is $5 billion over a border wall. does this tell us a lot about divide government? >> it'sus not symbols. it's semantics, right? the bill that the senate passed unanimously democrats and republicans did have money for border secury. it could have gone to -- i think -- senators will tell you it could have gone to a steel slat fence which is what the president wants. but that's the exact deal he

rejected. so there's a problem ofin shi messages from the president, but also semantics and a divided congress in that they're both trying to find they way wh voter about that issue. robert: by have the semantic debate and the political debate but this is real world sff. meland security security kirsten neilsen traveled to texas to d inspectention senators following the death of a child, anle-year-old boy. the 7-year-old girl died while in u.s. custody. neilsen asked that they would be expanding hea stheenings and may request further aid in medical care. lk about divided government. house democrats they're positioning theht shutdown f to be sure but looking at hearings and investigations into the trump administration on immigration.h, >> y this is disturbing stuff obviously with what's going on wit these two kids in

particular. and theeparated families more broadly. and dthinitely sog democrats will look at, hold hearings, etc. and when you talk to republicans those that support the president,hey generally feel like immigration is a winning issue for them and they support the president excep when it comes to -- when the spot light is on the kids and the famil separations. that's when it gets very difficult politically for republicans. and democrats not just because it's politics but it is good politics for democrats. we'll be focusing on that. robert: when you think about divided government in the past, sometimes presidents move toward the center. is this this white hmose ng to the right? >> definitely on immigration they're moving towards t right. trump feels this is an animating issue for 2020 for his race. d he's probably not going to give up much on this. it's -- they're n a very difficult spot on the border

right now because the trump administration's policy has been hold children and families longer when what' that more and more families are trying to cross the border illegally and it's jamming up the system. >> since we've seen these family situations they've beenor uncoble that they've not been able to figure out how to deal with this. the chair of the homeland security told me he was thinking about having hearings. they're very nervous about that. democrats taking over this issue is a relief to some republicans especially in the senate who are comfortable with it. robert: how are we seeing nancy pelosihe deal with new dynamic in the house democraticco erence? we have younger progressives. are they preventing her from cutting the deal? of don't think that is one things that is preventing her from cutting a deal. i believe nancy blowsy believes that her base, the

democratic base wants to be inclusive in a certa way, that she can't lose that immigration issue. and that isn't becausees of the new members. that's becse nancy pelosi understands democratic politics. robert: let's talk about the other bigssue. the president and first lady made a surprise visit to iraq. it was his first visit to a combat zone while in office. it came a week after he rejected military and announced he uld be drawing troops from and prompted james mattis to resign. >> you were on that rip, a surprise trip to iraq. with the syria decision looming over, how did that shape theen press remarks and the whole trip? >> i think the syria decision was one of h the reasonse really wanted to do this trip. he's been under pressure for months to visit a combat zone which he hasn'te. d then he made this big decision without really consulting the wtion security apparatus to

precipitously starhdrawing troops. he wanted to go. he wanted to show himself in iraq. and he wanted to show that he was going to double down in iraq to offsetn what he was doing i syria. that informed his decision to do it. robert: what w it like to be in the room, president trump, his first trip in this kind of setting?>> o president trump was focused on the visuals. so he wanted his first appearance there to be at this table with some o the military leadership surrounded by people in uniform. an he looked like he was running a meeting. he said we came up with a great plan for victory, even though we're pulling out of syria have plans to be really success ful. thwent into the dining hall and the soldiers cheered him as he walk in. some of the soldiers had brought red maga hats and asked them to sign them which created its own controversy and discussio whether the military was allowing itself to be

politicized. and he spoke to hundredsf military troops. he broke with convention and made politicalemarks about nancy pelosi and said that democrats don't agree with border security. usually they don't bring politics into it. robert: you look at capitol hill and you have senor bob corker retiring. you have jim mattis, the secondary of defense heading to th exi who is going to fill the void for republicans on foreign policy in congress next year? >> well, of course, senator mccain was a very strong voice on these issues. and with corker leaving, there really is going tode a v as far as a senator with gravitas who will be challenging the president and the on foreign policy. you have senator rish i.d. who is not very -- idaho who is not very well known.

and the chairman of the committee is someone who with a trump supporter. but he's aually crith sized corker for the way corker has been critical of trump a said that he'll air any disputes he'll have with the administration behind closed doors and not out in public. it's going to be a senate that follows the administration rather thanchlenging it. robert: at the same time, president trump is removing troops from syria. is this president militaryistic, a hawk or a noninterventionist? >> i think ph.d. tsis on this topic if not longer and books. i think ity rea -- he is situational. and i think that he certainly cares aboutis military posture, how he's perceived as a commander. t i think it has yet to be scene what type of information about america's military is he

reacting to?is e thinking stastiegically and ho it's -- strategically and how? he's not communicating with congress at all. they were surprised by the withdraw. these are senators that have o expertis these issues. and yet -- and oversight of them. and yet, ty were not vovered. so it's tricky. robert: that's at key point where some republicans like the policy, but they don't like the process. >> yeah,nd they're still struggling with how do you communicate that. and i think they're going to continue to see them struggle more. in terms of foreign policy voicese will be asking lindsey graham to tell us how he feels about these things when thet presids going to pull out without telling anyone before-hand. lindsey graham will speak up. the marco rubio's of the world will speak up. but they're not going to know es what the ent is going to do before he does it. robert: let's get into that

because as we say goodbye to 2018 and the stories you'll be following, the trumpst admition has quite a few staff changes. and the pegresidents with a number of people serving in active conditions, including the white house chief of staff. let's goi around the table. do you think about the white house, the upheaval all of these concerns, both parties about process. how is president trump dealing with this flux? >> so he's a guy for decades who has managed throughhaos. and he's write about that. he likes that. he likes people to feel only edge who are working for him. he's lit a fire t chief mulvaney who has to prove himself and others he' use to that. we're going to see more turnover in the big year. robert: big issuen for you 2019? >> i'm going to watch him how he reacts to the stock market and the continued volatility. i'll be watching for revelatio

out of the mueller investigations and whether that thes him take more steps in stice department. >> we will continue this long-time approach which has preserved our stability in the markets of having a political separation f the fed chairman and politics. but we don't know. this is a new president. we've never had a president like this in recentemory. so we hope that -- that he is able to respect those norms that have led to market stability for that reason. robert: we a talkedut the house democratic conference. you're such a student of the hoe and the incoming speaker pelosi. i'm fascinated by alexandra ocasio cortez o partf this new left, the rising left in the country. how does leader pelosi deal with these dynamics? how you do see it? that's going to be one of the most fascinating story lines to watch next year. you referenced ocasio-cortez

which is a big star. i a lot of the newly elected ones come from red to moderate districts. some of them had to pledge not to vote for pelosi. so you have innse cross-pressure there is that are on dy creating problems issue like on taxes, climates where she's not finding agreement. she's a master at managing other meeeers. we'll s how she does it and it will be interesting to watch. robert: what about 2020? we don't get to t much about presidential politics. we know about beto o'rourke. he's getting a lot of buzz we know biden, senator sanders. but are there other names out there? >> there are so many names on tic side -- robert: who are you watching? >> here's my one weird thing who hasn't announced and doesn't have an exploratory committee. w i'ching the foreman mayor of new orleans because he's a late 50-something mayor who helped new orlea out after

katrina. he's not afraid to talk about race. he brought the confederate statues down in new orleans. i'm looking at him because he's a white male and there's a question about who can bring tome of the basically white suburbans who l the democratic party and voted president trump i that's why i'm looking at bind. and that's why i'm looking at ayor landrieu. with michael bloomberg, money creates paths. so i think there's a path for the michael bloombes and landrieu. i think what the path is politics is different now because of president trump. it could be 40 people running for the democratic n pination. thh may be through california. hemaybe that's path now.

robert: and real quick, beto o'rourke, a year fromo now, we think there's buzz around this texas congressman? i know we don't like to predict too much. >> i think so. because there's a world where we're talking about beto o'rourke for a vice presidential spot. i thire w talking about him a year from now. robert: shuthdown is dominating this holiday week. but what else should with have in our calendar in terms of showdowns? >> i think we will expect inner shutdown showdowns. we've seen three this year. shutdowns seem to come clumps. ronald reagan had eight of them. ne in otable that this particular is the first time that we've seen worker sent home from the federal government when one party is in control. i get the senate and 60 votes, but it's significant. i think we need to watch spending. righthe now, interest on our deficit -- i'm going to get a little nerdy - t interest that we're paying right now is $$ 370 billion in years.

and that could double. that's more than half of the pentagon's budget. so we're paying a lot of money in interest. it's going to get worse. it's going to be a big problem for the country. it's starting to show on the polls of republicans. they need to deal with the budget. robert: what happens with the debt limit? >> that's something ha the president will have to make ade sion. if it's a choice or not. end mitch mcconnell has repeatedly saidoes not want to play games with the debt limit. but with this president, heay not have that choice. we'll see. >> but that limit is leverage. >> as brian was saying the economy's volatility may push republicans away from using it as leverage? >> it hasn't stopped them from using ate as leverage. if the president sees that as a leverage point that he may very well use it. >> mcconnell said he didn't want to shutdown the government and

wouldn't shut down the government and here we are. robert: who is going tod st to president trump in the republican party? i don't know. we'll find out ifnyone does. senator mcconnell is in cycle. i mentioned rubioho occasionally speaks out. robert: what about senator elect mitt romney? >> could be. >> i think people are watching to see whomn mitt is going to be because he's -- well, mitt romney islyot necessa scared of president trump's base. i think mitt romney knows who his base is. i think he feels pretty comfortable. it mayyo be that ev looks to romney also because he has a name and people want to interview him. robert: we haven't even ntioned robert mueller. >> yes, that's a wholether thing -- robert: it's more than a whole her thing. >> sometimes, if he changes direction it's something to do with his own instincts. robert: we'll see.

divided government and you never know whatappens in divided government. but before we go tonight, we'd like to pause and remember ant ta leader in the weta family who passed away this week and was a gifte a creative colleague who set high standards for vice a presidents national engagement and interactive media. she worked in many productions including documentaries bipartisan ken burns and skip gates. our thought are with her husband simon and her two teenage daughters sidy and lley. -- sally. i'm robert costa. we'll see you next week and next year. oning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.visit ncicap.org] ♪

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and i'm a puppeteer. he just kept wanting to push the boundaries of what was miraculous and magical and real. (henson speaking) t one that fits. -(chuckles) his the best you can do? narrator: he was an artist of boundless talent and imagination. jim was someone of terrific curiosity, ambition and drive. he was always working. he was always on. help! i was undoubtedly a great deal more comfortable... (henson speaking hi-yah! narrator: jim henson's muppets won the hearts of fans around the world. he created a family of unforgettable characters. narrator: yet, while the muppets were beloved by millions,