robert: theer gent remains shut down. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." >> i can't tell you when the government is going to be open. i can tell you it's not going to be open until we have a wall, a fence whatever they'd like to call it. robert: the government shutdown extends intos 2019 president trump and congress battle over funding for a border wall. in washington, uncertaint comes amid volatility on wall street. plus, the president makes his first trip to a combat zone and defends his decision to draw down troops in syria. >> we're not the suckers of the world. we're no longer theuckers. we're respected again as a nation. robert: we cover it all, next.

♪ announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- >> kin. >> kevin. >> kevin. advise for life. life well planned. learn more at rmondjames.com. announcer: funding is provide by wman's own foubdation, donating all profits to charity and nourishing the common good. qu and patricia yuen through the yuen foundat tn committedo bridging cultural differences in our communities. the eellence and journal foundation. the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. once again from washington, moderator robert costa.

robert: genood g. the federal government shutdown heads into the newear. with rth trump demanding $5 -- with president trump demanding billion for a border wall. hundreds of thousands of federal employees work without pay. about 380 thoushes have been furloughed and have not been guaranteed their backpay. that'so according the "associated press" and air traffic controllers have been deemed essential and are working without pay forow but will be paid once the government reopens. joining me tonight, shanna thomas for vice news. brian bennett, white house correspondent fo "time" magazine. lisa desjardins, for the pbs newshour, and eric warner for "the washington post." on friday, this war of words, it took another turn. president trump threatened to close the border if his demands

are not met and the acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney blamed nancy pelosi for the impasse. >> i think shuck schumer and the senate democrats probably would cut a deal. t buty're protecting mrs. pelosi. if she cuts a deal with t esident of any sort before her election on january 3rd, she's at risk of losing her speakership. so we're in this f the long haul. robert: we're in this for the long haul. the reins over washington, the shutdown the acting chief of staff is there on the white house lawn talking tos. report but where are the talks right now? are where is the urgency? >> isn't that interest. there is no urgency, there are no talks. all of the congressional leaders are at home. u.k. and louisville are playing each other in basketball. senato mcconnell will be there in all likelihood.

it's unlike past shutdowns where you have negotiations that were ongoing, you know, moment by moment until iret walved. that's not the case this time. there's anndstanding that his doesn't get resolved until dem take their seat on january 3rd. robert: is he playing toward th base? is that why he's digging in? >> he wants to be talking border security and the wall. that's what he wants to talk about. he thinks it's winning with his base. he wants to put dheocrats on the spot with it. so he's very comfortable having this spot. there are certain people in the white house thaha advised him to do this. this is something he wants to do. and he sms like he wants to dig in and try to make a point.y he hasn't madelans to go down to mar-a-lago at this point. he may miss the annual

mar-a-lago new year's party. robert: what about the federale ems? what's their reality a this moment? >> the last couple of days, i've ben tweeting with many federal employees. right now, it's the worst case scenario for most federal employees. they could miss the next paycheck, january 11th. we got some news. coast guard employees were fferent. acti duty -- there were some news they might be missing their paycheck. th coast guard told m there's an update that they will get that paycheck on monday. that's big deal. overall, i talked to people who have delayed surgeries because they're worried not getting enough money to pay for co-pays. nobody'sisng mortgage payments yet. but they' nervous that could happen in the next couple of weeks. >> throws the stories that will starto change this conversation as people miss paychecks, people who live month -- paycheck toth paycheck, m to month, those are the stories

that media peo ue likes are going to start to tell. we're going to find those lpeoe whers of government workers work. and that's going to get -- that's going to increase the pressure on the president as well as nancy posi. >> what does nancy pelosi when she likely wins the gavel? does she reopen the government without border fun u funds? -- without border funds? >> yes. whether that's to try to put the bill on the floor that funhe government through february 8th with no border funds or try to ve a continuing resolution to just fund the rest of the government through st of october 1st. one of those ocyions n pelosi is going to move to do that to show she can punt it over to the senate. what does mit mcconnell do? i talked to some people in the nate and the house. they haven't spoken. we know the president has not

spoken nancy pelosi. >> i know that tal are pretty nonexistent. but has the white house begin any private signal tt the democrats that they would be willing to ask for a lower number? >> before things stopped happening on saturday, there were talks on the hill, vice president pence was up there along with mulvaney and others. an white house did come down substantially. they came down to.5 so they cut that figure in half. the problem though from democrats' perspective, ishey don't want to be negotiating with pence or mulvaney or anyone rump. because they feel like any deal they strike with anyone that's not trump, trump could turn arnd and pull the rug out from under. we saw that happen when mitch mcconnell forced the senate to pass aha short term bill did not have that border wall

funding. that was done on the understandg that trump would support that bill. e very next morn, he did a turnaround under pressure from conservative press and lawmakers. and he went through his supporth ande we are. robert: why is the white house acting like they have levereyag eep moving in an aggressive way to talk about militaryizing the border or shutting down the border? do they actually belief the democrats will eak forhat? >> i think he's created some openings where h sed things like you could call it a fence or a wall or slats. that creates an opening about the definition of a wall. but then when he talk about shutting down t border, that from his perspective that's going to create leverag i'm going to make the stakes higher if docrats don't come to the table. >> it's not about $5 billion. this federal government could fund $5 billion. it's about the fact that the wall is a symbol of something. for democrats, the wall is a

symbol for keeping others out. it's a symbol of racism, it's a mbol of what they ran against. but nancy pelosi has to hold blind on. and i think she believes herself. for the president it is agn campromise. it is a symbol of america first. how do yrgue around a symbol when it isn't about the money because $5 billion isn a lot in our government. >> is that symbolism important? because you think that congress pass a $67 million farm bill and the thihu that ising down the government is $5 billion over a boer wall. does this tell us a lot about divide government? >> it's not just symbols. it's semantics, right? the bill thathe senate passed unanimously democrats ablnd reans did have money for border security. it could have gone to -- i think -- senators will tell you it uld have gone to a steel slat fence which is what the president wants.bu

that's the exact deal he rejected. so there's a problem of shifting messages from the president, but also semantics and a divided congress in that they're both trying to find they way with voter about that issue. robert: by have the semantic debate and the political debate but this is real world stuff.ec homelandity security kirsten neilsen traveled to texas tonspect detention senators following the death of a child, anle-year-old boy. the 7-year-old girl died while in u.s. custody. neilsen asked that they would be expanding health screening and may request further aid in medical care. talk abot vided government. house democrats they're positioning the hutdown fight to be sure but looking at hearings and investigations into the trump o administrati immigration. >> yeah, this is disturbing stuff obviously with what's

going on with these two kids in particular. and the separat families more broadly. and definitely something democrats will look at, hold hearings, and when you talk to republicans those that support the president, they generally feel like immigration is a winning issue for them and they support the president except when it comes to -- when the spot light is on the kids and the family separations. that's when it gets very ifficult politically for republicans. and democrats not just because it's politics but it d goo politics for democrats.e we'll focusing on that. robert: when you think about divided government in the past, sometimes presidents move toward the center. moving this white house to the right? >> definitely on immigration they're moving towards the right. trump feels this is an animating issue for 2020 for his race. p and he'bably not going to give up much on this. it's -- they're in a very

difficult spot on the border right now because the trump administration's policy has been to hold children and families longer when what's happeorng that and more families are trying to cross the border illegally and it's jamming up the system. >> since we've seen these family ttuations they've been uncomfortable thy've not been able to figure out how to deal with this.ir the c of the homeland security told me he was thinking about having hearings. they're very nervousbout that. democrats taking over this issue is a relief to some republicansn especiallyhe senate who are uncomfortable with it. robert: how are we seeing nancy pelosi dl with the new dynamic in the house democratic conference we have younger progressives. arenthey preg her from cutting the deal? >> i don't think that is one oi that is preventing her from cutting a deal. i believe nancy bellowsy

believes that her base, the democratic base wants to be inclusive in a certain way, that she can't lose that immigration issue. and that isn't because of these new members. that's becausecy n pelosi understands dratic politics. robert: let's talk about the other b issue. the president and first lady de ma a surprise visit to iraq. it was his first visit to a combat zone while in office.it ame a week after he rejectedry milita and announced he would be drawing troops from syria. and prompted james mattis to resign. >> you were on that trip, a surprise trip to iraq. with the syria decision looming emer, how did that shape the president'sks and the whole trip? >> i think the syria decision was one of theea reasons hey wanted to do this trip. he's been under pressure for months to visit a combat zone which he hasn't done. then he made this big decision without really consulting the national security apparatus to

precitously start withdrawi troops. he wanted to go. he wanted to show himself in iraq. and he wanted to show that he was goingo double down in iraq to offset what heas doing in syria. that informed his decision to do it. robert: what was it likeo in the room, president trump, his first trip in this kind of setting? >> sopresident trump was focused on the visuals. so he wanted his first pearance there to be at this table with some of the military leadership surrounded by people in uniform. and he looked like he was running a meeting. he said we came up witat a g plan for victory, even though we're pulling out of have plans to be really success ful.o then he went i the dining hall and the soldiers cheered him as he walk in. some of the soldiers hadrought red maga hats and asked them to sign tm which created its own controversy and discussion whether the military was

allowing itself to be politized. and he spoke to hundreds of military troops. he broke with convention and made political remarks about nancy pelosi and said that democrats don't agree with border security. usually they don't bring politics into it. robert: you look at capitol hill and you have senator bob corker retiring. you have jim mattis, the secondary of defense heading to the exit. who is going to fill the void for republicans on foreign policy in congress next year? >> well, of course, senator mcca was a very strong voice on these issues. and with corker leaving, there really is going to be void as far as ssenator with gravi who will be challenging the president and the admintration on foreign policy. you have senator rish of i.d. who is not very -- idaho w is not very well known.

and the chairman of the committee is someone who with a trump supporter. but he's actual crith sized corker for the way corker has been critical of trump and said that he'll air any disputes he'll have with the ministration behind closed doors and not out in public. it's going to be a senate that follows the administration rather than challengin it. robert: at the same time, oving ent trump is rem troops from syria. is this president militaryistic, a hawk or a noninterventionist? >> i think ph.d. thesis onhi topic if not longer and books. i think it- really - he is situational. and i think that he certainly cares about his military posture, how he's perceived as a commander. but i thinkt has yet to be scene what type of information

abou america's military is he reacting to? is he thinking stastiegically and how? it's -- strategically and how? he's not communicating with ll congress at they were surprised by the withdr s. these arators that have expertise on these issues. and yet -- and oversight of them. and yet, they were t vovered. so it's tricky. robert: that's at key point me where epublicans like the policy, but they don't like the process. >> yeah,d anthey're still struggling with how do you communicate that. and i think they're going to continue to see them struggle more. in terms of foreign policy voices we will be asking lindsey graham to tell us how he feels about these things when the president is goi to pull out without telling anyone before-hand. lindsey graham will speak up. the rarcoio's of the world will speak up. but they're not going to know what the president going to

do before he does it. robert: let's get into that beuse as we say goodbye to 2018 and the storiesou'll be following, the trump administration has quite a few staff changes. and the president begins with number of people serving in active conditions, including the white house chief of staff. let's going aund the table. do you think about the white house, the upheaval all of these concerns, both parties about process. how is president trump dealing with this flux? >> so he's a guy for decades who has managed through chaos. and he's write about that. he likes that. he likes people to feel onl edge who are working for him. he's lit a fir tohief mulvaney who has to prove himself and others he's use t that. we're going to see more turnover in the big year. robert: big issue for you in 2019? >> i'm going to watch him how he reacts t the stock market a the continued volatility. i'll be watching for revelations

out o the mueller investigations and whether that makes him take more steps in thd justiceartment. >> we will continue this long-time approach which has preserved our stability in the markets of having a political separati from the fed chairman and politics. but we don't know. this is a new president. we've pever had asident like this in recent memory. so we hope that -- that he is able to respect those nms that have led to market stability for that reason. robert: we tald abouthe house democratic conference. you're such a student of the house and the incoming speaker pelosi. i'm fascinated by alexandra ocasio cortez phit of new left, the rising left in the country. how does leader pelosi deal with these dynamics? how you do see it? that's going to be one of the most fascinating story lines to watch next year. yo referenced ocasio-cortez

which is a big star. i a lot o the newly elected ones come from red to moderate districts. some of them had to pledge not to vote for pelosi. so you have intense cross-pressure there is that are already creating problems onsu like on taxes, climates where she's not finding agreement. she's m aaster at managing other members. we'll see how she does it and it wint beesting to watch. robert: what about 2020? we don't get to talk much about presidential politics. we know about beto o'rke. he's getting a lot of buzz we know biden, senator sanders. but are there other names out there? >> there are so many names on the democratic side ro rt: who are you watching? >> here's my one weird thing who hasn announced and doesn't have an exploratory committee.he i'm watching foreman mayor of new orleans because he's a late 50-something mayor who helped new orleans out after

katrina. he's not afraid to talk about race. he brought the confederate statues down in new orleans. i'm looking at him because he's a white male and there a question about who can bring some of the basically white surbans who left the democratic party and voted president trump in. that's why i'm looking at bind. and that's why i'm looking at mayor landrieu.wi michael bloomberg, money creates paths. so i think there's a path for the michael bloombergs and landrieu. i ink what the path is politics is different now becausef o president trump. it could be 40 people rrning the democratic nomination. the path may be through california.

maybe thas the path now. robert: and real quick, beto o'rourke, a year fromow, do we think there's buzz around this texas congressman? i know we don't ltoikredict too much. >> i think so. because there's a world where we're talking about beto o'rourke for a vice presidential spot. i thinkal we'reng about him a year from now. robert: sthdown i dominating this holiday week. but what else should with have in our calendar in terms of showdowns? >> i think we will expect inner shutdown showdowns. we've seen three this year. shutdowns seem to come in clumps. ronald reagan had eight of them. it's notable that this onepan icular is the first time that we've seen worker sent home from the federal government when one party is in control. i get the senate and 60 votes, but it's significant. i think we need to watch spending. right n, the interest on our deficit -- i'm going to get a little nerdy -- the interest that we're paying right now is

$$ 370 billion in years. and that could double. that's more than half of the pent won's budget. re paying a lot of money in interest. it's going to get worse. it's goingo be a big problem for the country. it's starting to show on the lls of republicans. they need to deal with the dget. robert: what happens with the debt limit? >> that's somethi president will have to make a decision. if it's a choice or not. and mitch mcconnell has reotatedly said he does want to play games with the debt limit. but with this presint, he m not have that choice. we'll see. >> but that limit iser le. >> as brian was saying the economy's volatility may push republicans away from using it as leverage? >> it hasn't stopped the from using ate as leverage. if the president sees that as a leverage point that he may very well use it. >> mcconnell said he didn't want

to shutdown the government and wouldn't shut down the government and here we are. robert: who is going to to president trump in the republican party? i don't know. we'll fin out if anyone does. senator mcconnell is in cycle.i mentioned rubio who occasionally speaks out. robert:hat about senator elect mitt romney? >> could be. >> i think people are watching to see whoitt romney is going to be because he's -- well, mitt romney is not necessarily scared of president trump's base. i think mitt romney knows who his b ie i think he feels pretty comfortable. it may b that everyoneooks to romney also because he has a name and people want to interview him. robert: we haven't even mentioned robert mueller. >> yes, that's a whole other thing -- robert: it's more than a whole other tng. >> sometimes,f changes direction it's something to do with his ownin ins.

robert: we'll see. divided government and you never know what happensiv ined government. but before we go tonight, we'd like t pause and remember a talented leader in the weta family who passed away this week and was a gifted and creative colleague who set high standards for vice president astional engagement and interactive media. she worked in many productions including documentaries bipartisan ken burns and skip gates. our thoughts are with her husband simon and her two teenage daughters sidney a salley. --ally. i'm robert costa. we'll see you next week and next year. [captioning perftimed by the al captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.visit ncicap.org] ♪

announcer: funding is provided by -- financial services firm, raymond james. newman's own foundation donating all profits from newman's own's food products to charity and nourishing the common good. the ethics and excellence and journalism foundation. qu and patricia yuen committed to bridging cultural differens in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions from your pbs station from viewers like you, thank you. my name is jim henson

and i'm a puppeteer. he just kept wanting to push the boundaries of what was miraculous and magical and real. (henson speaking) -i want one its. -(chuckles) is this th you can do? narrator: he was an artist of boundless talenat and imagion. jim was someone of terrific curiosity, ambition and drive. he was alws going. he was always working. he was always on. help! i was undoubtedly a great deal more comfortable... (hensospeaking) hi-yah! narrator: jim henson's muppets won the hearts of fans around the world. he created a family of unforgettable characters. naor: yet, while the muppets were beloved by millions,