♪ >> hello, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour & co." during the holiday season, we are dipping into the archive and looking back at some of this year's highlights, so here's what's coming up. an urgent call to action on climate change from the unstoppable david attenborough. >> right now, we're facing a manmade disaster of global scale. >> also ahead, legendary correspondent marie colvin gave her life in syria. now the hollywood actress rosamund pike plays her in a new film. she joins us, along with marie's friend and fellow journalist lindsey hilsum, who has written a new biography about colvin's remarkable life. plus, when nearly dying gives you new life. "the good place" actress and jackie of all trades jameela jamil explains how getting hit by a car

was the best thing that ever happened to her. ♪ >> uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & co." when bea tollman founded a collection of boutique hotels, she had bigger dreams, and those dreams were on the water -- a river, specifically -- multiple rivers that would one day be home to uniworld river cruises and their floating boutique hotels. today, that dream sets sail in europe, asia, india, egypt, and more. bookings available through your travel agent. for more information, visit uniworld.com. >> additional support has been provided by... and by... and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. >> welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. climate change is too important to leave to government. that is why david attenborough, the 92-year-old naturalist and broadcasting legend, is telling people all around the world, "if you don't speak up, nobody will." attenborough was the first to take up the people's seat. it's a movement by the united nations to let the voices of ordinary citizens be heard at the landmark climate conference in poland. >> i'd like to thank the u.n. for inviting me to share my thoughts. >> we're facing this global challenge of climate change. >> we're increasingly witnessing impacts of climate change in china with our own eyes. >> it is already affecting us in a really scary way. >> [ speaking native language ] >> climate change affects everyone. >> and will continue to affect millions of the world's poorest people. >> the people's seat, giving millions the opportunity to talk directly to you, the leaders and decision-makers today.

>> so, those were the voices of the people, and the conference, called cop24, marked the required next step after the paris accords, where 197 nations around the world wrote the rule book that will govern and fund the fight against climate change, or at least that's what it's meant to be doing. the united states was notably absent from the meeting, refusing to take part in what trump officials call "the job-killing paris agreement. as host of blockbuster series like "life on earth," "blue planet ii," and his series, "dynasties," david attenborough has done more to bring the natural world into our homes than almost anyone. he's also got a brand-new netflix deal to spread the word farther and louder. he was once, in the very early years, a skeptic, but his work has made him a fervent convert to the climate-change cause, and he joined me from poland to talk about it. sir david attenborough, welcome to the program. >> thank you very much. >> so, let me ask you, you are there

giving this speech. you've given a speech to cop24. what is your underlying, fundamental message at this time? >> it's a message to the people who have got their fingers on power, the people who can do things, in terms of both money and legislation and big, practical events, a message from people, ordinary people around the world who are facing the brunt of what's happening in the climate today and saying that they desperately need action. and it gives them an opportunity of 208 million people to express their views as to what they're feeling about climate change and what's happening to them. >> so, were you surprised to hear what these young people have to say? because, always, we hear from sort of, you know, the people in power or the experts or whatever. were you surprised to hear from the people and what they had to say? >> i wasn't surprised, but i was very moved.

the fact that there are people, several hundred million people around the world are using the internet to speak to the people in power. your medium and mine, television, is very powerful, but there are many more people who have mobile phones than have television sets. so that message is getting to people that we haven't been able to reach, and what is more, enabling them to say what they think about the situation that they personally are facing, and then bringing that into the center so that people who sit on these platforms, who control hundreds of millions of pounds in terms as the world bank -- we've just heard now, being very generous -- so that we can really hear what's happening in the world around them. in big conferences like this, international conferences, you're isolated from people whose homes have just been razed to the ground or are facing hurricanes. but these are the people --

this is where it's working. this is where the penalties are being paid for what humanity has been doing to the planet. >> you know, and you speak with such urgency, and this is a very unprecedented event, this "take your seat" that you are representing peoples all over the world. tell me whether you believe this will continue. tell me about the importance of this hashtag movement, #takeyourseat. >> well, we will see. we will see whether people out there take advantage of this, and we will see. and i believe we can predict that, if they do take advantage of this, that it'll be a great incentive to the people who sit in conference rooms discussing protocols and figures and policies to realize that we're actually dealing with real people, men, women, and children who are actually taking the brunt of this on the chin. and not only that, but, also, that the natural world, which is also bearing the brunt

of what we've been doing to it and is facing catastrophe. >> i just want to go back to several of the things you've said in the past about this environment, which you are uniquely qualified to talk about it, given your incredible, decades-long, you know, travel around the world and bringing this to people's attention in the most understandable way possible. let me just ask you, i mean, you've used this medium, television, to really make an impact. at the moment, how do you reflect on the success of what you have done? >> well, i don't know. i don't know. but i think that there's a condition that the earth is facing has never been visible to a large proportion of the world's population. and it's the responsibility of people who do the sort of work that i do to make sure that what is happening is visible to people. mind you, they know. but it is also visible

to the people who have their fingers on power, both political power and fiscal power, monetary power to do something about this situation, which every day that passes, it gets more and more serious. >> so, about 18 years ago in "state of the earth," you said, "the future of life on earth depends on our ability to take action. many individuals are doing what they can, but real success can only come if there's a change in societies and our economics and in our politics." so, is that kind of the purpose of your storytelling, and do you feel that some of these people in positions of power are persuadable, particularly those who are deniers and who believe that it's economically unfeasible? >> we don't have the choice. they can't reckon that it's unfeasible. that's the voice of doom if they said that. of course it's -- action is feasible. we have to do something about

it. i mean, i didn't start by -- i was unaware when i started making natural history films that there was going to be a disaster facing us just over the horizon. i didn't know that that was going to happen. and the motive that i had in making "natural world" is because i think the natural world is marvelous and wonderful and one of the great solaces of human beings that we are part of this sort of thing. and that's the sort of thing that television should be dealing with. that's why i started in it. but what you realize now is that, if you don't speak up, nobody will. i've had unprecedented good fortune in being able to travel around the world and seeing all the most wonderful things. and what sort of a person would i be if i failed to speak up on this occasion when we suddenly see what is facing us just over the horizon? >> you know, you've also said that the alarmism over climate change, some of the sort of doom and gloom that is the sort of narrative that's out there,

i guess in good faith, because people want to try to get everybody's attention and shake them by the lapels, but you think that sort of negativism and alarmism can have the wrong effect. >> no, i don't, properly handled. i think if all you said was that -- the natural history programs on television is that the world is doomed, then an awful lot of people who are not in touch with the natural world, having the good fortune that you and i have, which is being able to travel in it, hundreds of millions of people around the world -- their horizons are not that broad. so, for those of us who have that privilege, we have two responsibilities. the first is to explain what it is and to explain the way, the part that humanity plays in controlling and determining what happens to the rest of life on the earth, and the other is to actually show the world itself.

so we have those two responsibilities, and any of us working in this field knows that and feels it very strongly. >> so people around the world are really familiar with your decades of series on this issue, but now you're taking a giant leap forward by putting on your new series on netflix. tell me what that means to you and what kind of exponential effect do you think it might have? >> well, the two advantages of it are, first of all, that they can immediately, overnight, once it starts, it's available to over 200 million people. there's no other single network, television network, in the world that can command that sort of audience. so that's one very good reason why it should be on netflix, so that everybody can see it. and what's more, can go on seeing it for a long period of time, not governed by schedules. as you know, in netflix,

once you join, you can, in fact, see it at any time what it is you wish to see. so that is a huge advantage if you really care about the message that we are trying to make in that series. >> so as you talk about all these young people, and as we've seen all these young people respond to the #takeyourseat, we've also seen over the weekend, in australia for instance, in cities all over the country, young people took to the streets and practically closed down, you know, the traffic in those cities, demanding that their leaders take action on this really huge issue. so that must be sort of a positive thing for you, and how do you -- what are you trying to say maybe to americans, where, as you know, the leadership there has been quite reluctant to admit and take action on humankind's effect on the environment? >> what i would say is, "look, we're not telling lies. the evidence is there.

we are showing the evidence of what's happening around the world. and if you take any account of knowledge, of research, of science, we know what's causing these disasters, and what is more, we know how to deal with it. please join the rest of the world, the rest of the world -- the entire rest of the world is united in trying to take action on this. the united states is a very, very powerful voice. please, please join us." >> and i want to play a little clip of your latest series airing on the bbc -- it's called "dynasties," and you're taking various animal species and delving into how they are in their own environments. and the first one was about chimpanzees. and we're going to play this little -- little clip about a chimpanzee called david and how he's struggling to remain in control of his tribe. [ chimpanzees hooting ]

>> as leader, david gets his pick of the feeding spots. [ birds chirping ] but he is wary, as he must feed alongside old enemies. he has two particularly ambitious rivals. david's toes begin to twitch, a nervous tic he can't conceal. ♪ this is jumkin, who has long sought the top spot. ♪ and this, luthor... [ chimpanzees screeching ] ...a tempestuous younger male...

[ screeching continues ] ...with an aggressive streak. >> so, what happened after that clip? did he stay in control, david the chimp? >> no, he didn't. in fact, that clip was -- the original film, the original recording was made just over a year earlier. and, actually, david succumbed. he was an aged david, and he was overturned by the young males who had already made an attempt on his life, as it were, which we were there to record. and a year later, however, time passes, and time does pass. >> and i just -- you know, you've talked about people and humans and human impact. i just want to refer you to a quote in 2005 in an interview with the telegraph, you said -- so, that's the uk newspaper -- "if we humans disappeared

overnight, the world would probably be better off." i mean there's a point there, isn't there? do you still believe that? >> yes. if by the world, you mean the natural world, yes, that's the case. i mean, we have inflicted terrible damage on the world, the planet. we have overrun it in a way that is unprecedented. no other creature in the world has caused the -- had the effect on the planet -- good, bad, or indifferent -- has had the effect on the planet the human species has. and so we ought to be aware of what we've done and recognize the responsibility that we now have in our hands. >> you are one of the world's best storytellers, if not the best storyteller around the world right now. and you've been doing it for a long time, even before you got in front of the camera when you were controller at the bbc here in the uk. you're the one who pioneered these amazing documentaries and series on,

for instance, civilization, so our human civilization, then the ascent of man. describe for me what it was that got your interest in these epic stories about our humanity and our civilization from such a young age. >> i suppose i thought that television is not trivia. i thought that here is a means of communication unlike anything in the history of humanity ever before, that suddenly you're able to bring pictures and sound to tell messages. and surely those messages aren't just trivia. with that huge opportunity, surely you should deploy that to say things that are important. now, if you believe that knowledge is important, well, then, you should do something about it. if you believe that understanding is important, you should make it possible for people to share that. that's what television should be doing and that what -- television isn't just to sell products,

isn't just to while away -- it isn't visual chewing gum. it can be used to say something really, really important globally. i mean, it is an extraordinary facility that's been put in our hands. why don't we use it? we must use it. >> well, you've been using it to amazing effect. so i wonder, at the grand old age of over 90 now, you are still so vigorous and so involved and still traveling and still telling these stories. what do you make all these years later, having been based and rooted in the evidence world, in the anthropological world, in the sort of natural history world, of this assault on fact, on knowledge, on science, and on natural history? >> well, you can only have the faith. the truth is its own message, and the truth will be recognized. and the mendacity and falsehoods

and outright lies will be exposed for what they are. and those of us who are working in the media -- that's you and me -- do our best to make that clear. >> we certainly do, and you've been doing it for an enormously long time, and everybody is grateful. sir david attenborough, thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much. >> at a time when journalists are in particular danger, jamal khashoggi's being exhibit "a" right now, we bring you the story of marie colvin, a journalist killed while telling the world about the war in syria. she did cheat death many times, even losing an eye while she was covering the war in sri lanka. but marie, in the words of her editor at the london sunday times, had a god-given talent to make people care. two new and very timely works focus on her work and her life -- the movie "a private war," starring rosamund pike, who uncannily and complete inhabits our colleague marie, and marie's friend the tv correspondent

lindsey hilsum has written a book called "in extremis" with exclusive access to colvin's diaries from when she was 13 all the way up to her death. both of them join me here to talk about marie, jamal, the astonishing power of their work, and the heavy price both have paid. rosamund pike, lindsey hilsum, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> i don't know whether you think about this in real time, but it could not be better time -- this movie, and, frankly, your book as well, since it does highlight marie's life but in the context of the severe danger that we journalists are under and people like marie obviously was. what do you think about what's going on right now with the, you know, horrific story of jamal khashoggi? >> i mean, i think we -- you know, matthew heineman, the director, and i are both very, very proud that this is a film that really celebrates journalism, you know, that it is a hymn to the danger -- the real -- very real danger that journalists put themselves in. and i -- i'm not sure that everybody is fully aware of that.

you know, it struck me actually -- i'm reading lindsey's book -- that in around 2004 or '05, the sunday times was having to quickly recalibrate and start almost -- you imply -- almost the editors started reading books on the effect of repeated exposure to conflict... >> you have ptsd and all -- yeah, exactly. >> and now, here we have it, obviously, from the washington post this time, of a journalist again who has lost his life in pursuit of his truth or him for speaking out his truth. >> yeah. i mean, it is extraordinary. and you, obviously, are a foreign correspondent and a war correspondent, and you've written the book on marie, "in extremis." and you've had amazing access to her diaries. but you also know what rosamund has learnt to know by playing this singular character. >> i think that the extraordinary thing about marie is people often say that marie was fearless. she wasn't really fearless but she could always overcome her fear because she was so motivated. she was so highly motivated

to sell the story of victims of war. and that was conscripts, as well. there was nothing marie liked more than sitting in a muddy trench with a bunch of soldiers and finding out what was going on. but she did think about her own safety. but, you know, i often worked alongside marie. but her danger threshold was far beyond mine, and she always went in further and stayed longer. that was why she got the best stories. that was why she's not with us today. >> mm-hmm. >> you know, what lindsey says is really true and, you know, it's what jamal did, you know, speak out against his government, you know, marie and other journalists were in syria saying things that were seen by the assad regime in real time, particularly since she gave interviews to cable news and radio and all the rest of it. how did you compute for yourself as an outsider to news... >> yes. >> ...but as the actress playing this very brave kind of edgy frontierswoman?

>> i love the way you say that. marie had extraordinary empathy. and what always interested her was the human cost of war. and i think in terms of our film, i think it's very interesting because the depiction of middle eastern people in hollywood movies tends to be as the outsider, the other -- sometimes the extremist, the fanatic -- that's the sort of traditional role. and here is a movie which goes into and delves into the pain of the people in these conflict regions, particularly the syrian people. we go with libyan people, people in iraq. and that's not a portrait that many people in the west are often given on film, and it's something i'm quite proud of and i think marie would have applauded, too. >> we're going to start actually with one of the clips now because it is when she's actually meeting photographer paul conroy for the first time, who was with her to the end in syria. but this is in iraq, and she's doing her typical thing, wanting to meet up

and collaborate with the best of the best. so, let us just play this, and we'll talk about it. [ indistinct conversations ] >> what's your name? >> paul. >> i'm marie. >> i know. >> so, are you freelance? >> always. >> any good? >> the best. >> paul, the photographer... >> yes. >> ...also, i think, worked with you on the script and as a consultant and all the rest of it. what did you gain from meeting the people who she not just knew, but worked in the field with? plus, how did you get that uncannily accurate depiction of her? >> oh, that's very nice. i mean, marie was an amazing person, an inimitable presence, and i knew that, in playing her, i had to inhabit her. it wasn't just -- i couldn't just play a war correspondent -- i had to play her. also, my director was a documentary maker, and i knew that probably in an ideal world, he would be making a documentary about marie, which sadly he can't. and i knew i had to deliver something that would be as close

to the authentic as i could. so, i knew that involved changing the way i walked, changing the way i spoke, changing the way i -- learning to smoke. [ laughter ] >> oh, she did a lot of that. >> which she did a lot. >> did you learn to drink proper martinis, as well? >> i could -- yes, learned to make, mix, drink -- all of the above. and paul conroy came with us, i think, just to check out what we were doing for about a week and to get us up on our feet. and then, i think he found in our profession something akin to the sort of sense of a traveling band on the road, you know, with people, where it's a sort of urgent sense of intimacy because you're having to create something that, you know, delves deep into the human condition in a short space of time. and it's that fast-track intimacy that i'm sure people in your profession find, as well. and i think he enjoyed it and he stayed with us and, actually, became our on-set stills photographer, which was, you know, probably a bit of a light relief for him, really. but it was very, very valuable to have him around, 'cause he shared -- he gave a real sense at all times of marie and paul's,

you know, their comradery, of her, of the moments that she'd go dead quiet because she experienced the fear that lindsey was talking about. i agree with you -- definitely not fearless. the real courage is feeling it and going there anyway. >> yes. >> i mean, quick, quick. you've seen a clip or two -- how does rosamund measure up as marie? >> oh. >> [ laughs ] >> it's actually quite -- it's -- actually, the first time i saw it, it was quite painful because the thing that rosamund has done, which is so weird to me, is she's got the way marie move -- moved, you know, this sort of spiky, angular thing. and it really did feel like marie was there. and it was that more than anything else. i mean, yes, the place, the eyepatch, the voice, but it's the way she moved, and that is what was so extraordinary for me watching it -- very strange. >> and given where we are in the story, you know, you worked alongside her many times -- i did, as well -- and you have had unbelievable access to her most intimate thoughts through her diary

since she was 13 years old. as we move along with this story, give us a little idea of who she was and how she became this person. >> oh, it's so extraordinary. for me, i mean, i think, in writing the biography, one of the most extraordinary moments for me was when i found this diary of hers, little white plastic, closed with a key, and i said to slit it open, and i realized, "oh, my god. nobody has opened this since marie at the age of 14 locked it." >> getting chills. >> and, yes. and -- but, then, oh, she was naughty, oh, she was rebellious. and so, she's brought up on long island, middle-class family, catholic family, mass every sunday. and i think one of my favorite entries -- it just goes, "to church, wore a mini. the mother and the father no like." [ laughter ] oh, i felt that in that rebellious little girl, i saw the woman she became, who i knew. >> well, i want to fast-forward to a dramatic -- toward the end of her life

and i want to play one of the last first dispatches she gave from homs, which was to anderson cooper, and it became really sort of seminal. let's just play it. >> it's a complete and utter lie that they are only going after terrorists. there are rocket shells, tank shells, anti-aircraft being fired in a parallel line into the city. the syrian army is simply shelling the city of whole starving civilians. >> she was in baba amr, one of the suburbs or outposts of homs, and she insisted on staying. and that's part of a whole sort of controversy between her and paul and the editors and people who look at what happened to her in the end. it's a pivotal moment in the film. >> mm-hmm. >> what was going through your mind? i mean, you're playing her, you've assimilated so much, and yet, you know, it's -- some people might say that determination to stay is what cost her her life. >> yes, and it's so funny.

you know, my heart's racing, just -- i haven't been nervous sitting here, and then we play that, and somewhere in my body, i go back to the feelings that i inhabited playing marie at that time in her life. and actually, she was in homs. they understood that a big assault was coming, and it was necessitous to go -- to leave. they were halfway down this storm drain, this 4-kilometer storm drain, which was the entry and exit point for our any journalist coming into homs taken by the fsa fighters, and she was sort of halfway down or a few hundred meters down it and she said, "i've got to go back. you know, there are 28,000 people there and i can't abandon them." and paul said to her, "you realize, if we go back, we will die." and she said, "i have to go back. you know, this is what we do. this is what we do." and she went back, and he, of course, followed her because he wasn't going to leave her. and he told me, actually, that they -- i find this very emotional, so forgive me, but he said that

they both felt very strongly that they might not make the deadline for "the sunday times" that week, and that was her decision -- that motivated her decision to ask sean ryan if she could broadcast with cnn and channel 4 and wherever. >> bbc, yeah. >> bbc. and she -- and she spoke to you. >> she called me. she called me, and i said -- and i was furious with her. i sort of said, "marie, why did you go back?" and she said, "lindsey, it's the worst thing we've ever seen." and i said, "i know, but, you know, what's your exit strategy?" and she said, "that's just it -- we don't have one. i'm working on it now." and then, a few hours later, she was killed. >> again, in this moment that we are living, we all remember so starkly where we were when we heard that marie had been killed in 2012, and now, six years later, you have -- so many others have been killed in the last six years trying to do this kind of work, but, all of a sudden, the world is focused on jamal khashoggi because he wasn't a war correspondent,

but he was taking on and criticizing a very powerful regime. and, again, until we find out exactly what happened to him, we can only assume the worst of what's been leaked. but there is that whole similar attitude that, "i cannot be silenced. i will not be silenced," whether it's marie because of the danger, whether it's jamal because of the threats he was getting from the saudi regime and others. i wonder whether people understand that that's what they do for them. >> but i think that the other thing which is really important is that, you know, marie was killed in syria and james foley and others, but the majority of journalists killed in syria are syrians, and i think that that is so important, that the majority of journalists under threat all over the world are under threat from their own governments and from organized criminals. today is the anniversary of the killing of daphne caruana galizia. she was a maltese journalist who was investigating corruption. >> yes. >> and she and two other journalists within

the european union have been killed this year, and they are -- they're not in war zones -- they're investigating corruption and organized crime. and that, it seems to me, is this really important -- i don't know if it's new, but it's a front in this war on journalists. >> and i think that's why this film and your book, at this time, are really, really significant and major reminders of what's at stake here, not just for the individuals who are targeted and who lose their lives, but for our very democracies, for our whole idea of what's truth and what's lies. and, again, about marie -- we had her sister and her lawyer on, cat and her lawyer, who are convinced that this was not an accident. she was not killed in any crossfire -- that she was, in fact, targeted, and i interviewed them when they came out with their conclusions in their suit against the assad regime. and cat explained to me that she had been talking to paul conroy. let's just listen to this. >> yeah. >> really, it felt, right from the beginning, like it had to be deliberate. the coincidence of her reporting

out of homs just the night before she was kille was too much of a coincidence. but it really hit home when i spoke to paul conroy about his knowledge of the artillery fire and how he was absolutely certain that the pattern of fire was one of targeting, not random bombings as they'd experienced in the weeks leading up to marie's murder. so, i really felt from the outset that it was deliberate. >> and we say that in the film. i mean, as we leave the media center in homs under fire in the final moments of the film, the paul character, played by jamie dornan, says to me, "you know, they're bracketing -- they've found us." and marie says, "what's that?" and he says, "they've -- you know, they're measuring the distance, and they're closing in on our location." they know exactly where we are." >> and in the last chapter of the book, i talk about the other evidence and the court case, which is of defectors and spies. there is quite a lot of evidence. >> so, do you -- you think that this is a solid case?

>> there's someone who's actually spoken out. >> yeah, there are. >> yes. >> an intelligence official. >> yeah, there's a lot of -- there's a lot of evidence. >> okay, so the next question is, much with the saudi regime right now, do you think that either marie's death or jamal's death will result in the guilty being held accountable? >> oh, i wish i could say yes. i think that i believe that, in the end, the guilty will be held accountable, but i don't know how far away the end is, because right now i feel that journalism is really under threat. and i think that, if it is established that jamal khashoggi was murdered, if it is established that he was murdered for being a journalist and speaking out, then i really hope that governments and people within saudi arabia do react and do something. >> and can we just point out that, six years after marie's death, and she was reporting from the very beginning of the war, it looks like assad is on

the verge of not just winning, but being accepted as the winner. and we need to really compute this. we really do need to just think about it for the moment, because it cost 500,000 lives, at the very least, of syrians, and millions of refugees are -- and obviously so many more wounded. but i want to play -- because this film is called "a private war." so, it's not just about marie's war work -- it's also about her internal war with herself, and she had, as you know and we know, a lot of ptsd. she was a heavy drinker. she had a couple of miscarriages. she had failed marriages. she had suicide. she had divorce. she had just so much going on in her own life, as she was, nonetheless, conducting this work at a very high level. and i just want to play marie accepting an award back in 2000, then marie talking to paul in the film when she's actually at one of the rehabilitation clinics.

>> the pain of war is really beyond telling. i don't think i've ever filed a story and felt i got it -- i really said what i want people to feel, but i do try, and i think whatever the rights and wrongs of a conflict, i feel we fail if we don't face what war does, face the human horrors rather than just record who won and who lost. >> i fear growing old. ♪ [ chuckling ] but, then, i also fear dying young. ♪ i'm most happy with a vodka martini in my hand, but i can't...stand the fact that the chatter in my head won't go quiet until there's a quart of vodka inside me. ♪

[ sniffles ] i hate being in a war zone... but i also feel compelled. >> so, it's really real. >> yeah, i think -- i think, in order to -- i think matthew and i both felt that, in order to, you know, really do marie justice, we needed to go into the depths of her soul. and i think, you know, i'm very, very interested in the cost of doing any job at a high level, whether it's sport or whether it's what you do. and i think, you know -- i think it's a very complicated place for the war correspondent, because i'm sure you must feel when you're out there you're exposed to so much trauma and so much of other people's pain, there must be a part of you that thinks, "well, why am i feeling? because it's not my pain to feel," and yet, you must feel. you cannot be exposed to that level of trauma without feeling. so where on earth does it go? and then, you probably feel

sort of guilty wrongly for having it haunt you because i think it's a very complicated position to occupy, and i think it was very lonely, and i'm sure you feel that you should be able just to pull yourself together when you're back on dry land. >> i think it -- but i think it is, also -- i mean, one of the reasons that i call the book "in extremis" is 'cause it was a quote from marie -- she said, "what i write about is people, you know, living in extremis and what really happens in war." but, obviously, she also lived her own life in extremis. >> yes, yes. >> that was it. but i suppose -- i also want to say, 'cause this is all serious stuff -- she was the best company. she was the funniest person. >> yeah. >> and so, you know, i used to think of us as the thelma and louise of the press corps, you know, because whenever i, you know, i would be anywhere, marie would turn up. and i'd go, "well, now, you know, i'm going to have fun." and there was an occasion -- and we're not supposed to joke about these things now, but there was an occasion when we were on a stage, and a very earnest young woman got up and said, you know, "how

do you cope with the trauma?" and marie turns to me, and she says, "well," she says, "lindsey and i -- we go to bars, and we drink." [ laughter ] and, you know -- "oh, god!" >> yeah. and that's -- what do we call it? -- black humor. rosamund pike, thank you so much. lindsey hilsum, thank you very much. "a private war" and "in extremis." it is not unusual for a british actor to go to hollywood and make it big. but jameela jamil is not exactly your paint-by-numbers actress. a brit of pakistani descent, incredibly honest about her life, from anorexia to sexual assault, nervous breakdown, and even she got hit by a car. she remains incredibly optimistic throughout. and now she's starring in the hit sitcom "the good place." jamil spoke with our alicia menendez about her unusual journey to the top. >> you have the type of story that if it were written as fiction would be unbelievable. you grow up without full hearing and yet somehow become

a radio deejay. you accidentally become a host. you then accidentally become a columnist. you have then achieved fame in the u.k. and decided it's time to move to the u.s. to pursue a career in writing and then somehow, although you were not pursuing acting, get cast in one of the most important sitcoms happening in america right now. who are you? >> i don't know. i have no idea. i should be stopped. >> yes. >> it was amazing that you memorized my life. >> because it's unbelievable. >> so, when i was 17, i got hit by a car into another car, broke my back, and that changed the rest of my life, because it gave me this certainty that we can't really have plans. there's no point really in having plans. because one day, you can just be walking across the road, and then that's it -- your whole life changes, and you can't walk again for a year, or some people can never walk again. so i think i stopped living my life with a plan and with a particular direction and just moved in the direction of happiness. i'm making the most of every single day which makes me sound so disgustingly cheesy,

but it is true. once you lose the ability to urinate alone, you start to take things less for granted. so i think that it's left me open-minded. i think some people can be quite tunnel-visioned in this world and in this industry in particular. they have a certain idea of how everything is gonna go. and so i've just been quite malleable and quite open to things. i've been in the right place at the right time. i think luck plays a huge part in it. and i've just been willing to take risks and humiliate myself constantly, sometimes, which i do actually quite frequently. i'm bad at things on air, in front of lots of people, but i'm willing to try. >> because you're trying things for the first time. >> yeah. but i always jump straight in at the deep end. i had no idea how to host, and my first audition landed me one of the biggest hosting jobs in the united kingdom. and then i started out in radio, and rather than giving me the kind of one-year training run that you're supposed to get when you pop up for other people, i got given my own show straightaway and then made history as the first woman to ever take over the official charts. so i've never been ready for -- i mean, i've never acted before, and now i'm on "the good place" opposite ted danson. >> who would you say is the most famous person in your phone?

>> it's not about who you know. enlightenment comes from within. the dalai lama texted me that. >> the show "the good place," for all of its humor, gets into some very dark, deep, existential questions. what have you learned, being on the show? >> i've learnt that i need to pay more attention and be a better person and make sure that my motivations aren't corrupt. i think there's a part of all of us that sometimes, even without realizing, do good things for the -- not for the sake of it but doing it because it'll make you feel like a good person. we call it moral dessert on the show. and i think that, also, it is a great reminder at this time where it feels like everything is so divisive in politics and in the news and we're all being turned against each other and fear-mongered about one another. this show is about four people who have nothing in common who come from very different places who have no choice but to work together in order to get to a better place, which is kind of a really wonderful analogy for the rest of the world is that, divided, we will be conquered, and we are literally being conquered.

and if we want to be more like the show, a silly nbc network comedy, if we were to put aside our differences and just work together, we could actually change the world. and so that's what i really like about it. >> talk to me about why you decided to make that leap from your career in the u.k. to moving to l.a.? >> well, england is amazing. but england has kind of a... it's got quite a low ceiling for women, you know, still. i think there's really very few of us who manage to continue to work after their 30s, and there still isn't enough diversity, not as much as there should be. i think they're getting better but way behind america. and so i kind of felt like my options of really great content were -- were sort of, at that time -- i think things are changing now -- but four years ago, it sort of -- i felt like the walls are kind of closing in on me, and i didn't know what i wanted to do. and i had a health scare again. i get these kind of cyclical, every decade i get a huge health scare that makes me think about my life.

>> the breast-cancer scare? >> it was the breast-cancer scare, yeah, and it took a week for them to give me back my biopsy results, which is so long when it's happening to you. and i thought during that whole week about everything that i wished i would've done if it is cancer. and if it isn't cancer, i'm gonna go and do all of those things. so i made a list. and one of them was to book a one-way ticket to los angeles and quit my job and quit my relationship, quit my life, and just move there, with no plan, no visa, no contacts, nothing, no friends here, and i just did it. >> they say of comedians that very often their humor comes from a very dark place. even though you are not a comedian, you obviously now are a comedic actor. and so i wonder for you, is there a darkness that you access in order to get to your comedy? >> mm. i think, normally... i think, normally, humor comes from an inability of feeling like you have anything else to rely on to make people like you. and so, for me, that was being pakistani in a time where england was still quite racist, and i think it was being more overweight than society thought i should be. and also coming

from a poor background and getting a scholarship to a very wealthy girls' school where everyone was thin and very few people were of any ethnicity. i was very much so an outsider my whole life, and i didn't really have friends properly until i was about 19 years old. so i think that loneliness and also spending my hours that i should have been spending with other people my age, i spent watching comedy. so i think it has become -- comedy is my friend, and, therefore, comedy is how i approach all friendship. and that's probably where my comedy comes from -- loneliness and darkness and fatness. >> well, you alluded to this, but you spent three years suffering from anorexia in which you did not eat one proper meal... >> no. >> ...the entire three years. >> yeah. >> it is then that car accident that kicks you out of that. not everyone will be hit by a car and have that be the turning point -- >> no, not everyone is as lucky as me. [ laughs ] >> i mean, what a life-altering experience. >> yeah. it's the best thing ever happened to me. i highly recommend it. >> you understand how dark that sounds? >> no, i highly recommend it.

you know, just a little knock that reminds you that you are -- that you are human and everything that you have can be taken away from you. you're not special. you're not privileged. anything can happen. all these fluke occurrences can happen all the time. you have to be careful with yourself. you have to respect your body, and it taught me to respect my body, because once these vital things i'd taken for granted, like walking or bending or sitting up by myself was taken away from me, i realized that, "oh, my god. i've been treating my body so badly, speaking about my body so badly." we all do it. we all say terrible things about our bodies, to our bodies, and to other people constantly. it's all i hear. and now that i started the i weigh movement and i myself have become so sick of the toxic language around the way that we talk about our self-image, i feel like i'm seeing it more than ever before. and we just have so much self-hatred, and i think that's kind of the thing i most want to do with my platform. >> so tell me about i weigh. >> so i weigh is a movement that i started. it's not a body-positive movement. it's a life-positive movement, because i think there are enough people working within body positivity. and i would like to focus myself

on getting away from the body and just looking at the whole picture of a woman. we're so multi-faceted, and we're so interesting, and so many of us do such impressive and wonderful, incredible things. so many women are so much funnier than people know. and we are reduced to nothing more than a silhouette and normally aesthetically pleasing to a man. those are the kind of confines within which we're given to exist. we have to have big breasts and a small waist and a big bottom but no thighs and no arms and no cellulite and we have to never age ever. we have to always look prepubescent, and yet men are shot in hd, and they get celebrated for getting older and, you know, salt-and-pepper hair. you don't say that about women. so we're so shamed. and i decided i am tired of being valued by my weight, like my physical weight. i don't want my worth to be represented on a weighing scale. i think that we are -- i weigh the sum of all my parts, you know, and i deserve the right

to be acknowledged for that. i've lived a whole life here. i'm not just a facade. i'm not just an outside. and i want to celebrate women, and i want them to celebrate themselves and everything that makes them up. i want them to be proud of themselves. there's so many things that we do that are amazing. you don't need to look like a teenage sex doll to be valid in this world. if you do, fine. if that's what you like, that's great, but that shouldn't be the one requirement we're given. also, it's so narrow for us. we're only getting one look, and that look changes every 10 years. can you imagine a world in which we said to men every 10 years, "oh, you got to look like this now? and if you don't, you're nothing." they would tell us to f-word off. that's what they would do. there's no way that they would take that, tolerate that from us. >> you have plenty of experience with airbrush, airbrush that is not of your choosing. you have been made to look both less ethnic, slimmer. >> mm-hmm. >> how do you stop that? >> i say do not ever airbrush me now to all magazines. i think i've always said it for a long time, but i didn't command enough power.

and, also, i think i was laissez-faire with the word "no" and for being strongly opinionated. i think #metoo and times up has given me this sense of, like, "rrr!" that i've never, ever had before. but now i'm just like, "damn it! this is my life. don't change my face." it's rude when someone changes my face. it's crazy to me that, without asking me, someone has changed the shape of my nose and changed the color of my skin and lengthened my body. that's a direct insult from the editor of the magazine and the photoshop to me that i'm not good enough. and then the young girl who doesn't look like me because i don't even look like me, who sees that image, then thinks she's not good enough. this is ridiculous. so i now ban all airbrushing. i would like to move to change the laws on airbrushing. if i could, i would get rid of all of it. and god help us with these photoshop apps. i think they are a nightmare 'cause -- and i think that they are increasing the numbers of surgery that are happening now, cosmetic surgery. i think numbers are rising because you're seeing yourself, you're always -- i think facetune is one of the apps. you're always photoshopping yourself, and then you look in the mirror, how can you be happy

with something when you've been looking at complete flawlessness? and you look in the mirror and you can see human, normal flaws and age. that's gonna make you then want to match what you see in the app and then you have to go out and have painful, expensive, sometimes dangerous surgery. what are we doing? what kind of time is this that we're spending on thinking about these things? it's fine to spend a little bit of time on your looks, wearing a suit -- i bathed yesterday. >> brushed your hair. >> i did it yesterday. brushed my teeth possibly also yesterday, but i'm here. make an effort, wearing some makeup. that's fine, but it's 1/10 of who i am, and that's all i want, is just life positivity. i weigh is who you are, not what you look like. >> as you alluded to, we are in a moment of cultural reckoning, and that was on full display in these past few weeks as brett kavanaugh was considered for his nomination to the supreme court. you've spoken openly in the past about being a survivor of assault. and so i wonder, for you, watching what has unfolded in the past few weeks, how you process the disbelief

that has been posed towards the survivors that have come forward. >> as a victim of several different cases of sexual assault, i find it very triggering, very painful to watch and i think so do a lot of my friends, because we've all been there. we've all been given doubt. and, also, i pointed out this week that in the same week in which a woman who's just speaking out about sexual assault and the way she's being treated in many different areas as someone to be suspicious of, someone to not believe, she's been kind of villainized by certain people. and then you have roman polanski on the other si-- on the other hand who with this week we're hearing that he's got a new film coming out. what is this gender imbalance here that a woman who's accusing someone of sexual assault life is being torn apart, and then roman polanski's off making movies, hanging out with celebrities, eating at the best restaurants, living his life free? >> well, you tell me, as a survivor, what message does it send? >> it sends the message that we're not supposed to speak out. and that if we do, we will be villainized

and we will be doubted and we will be shamed and asked about what our part -- we don't have a part to play in sexual assault. we are just victims. and all i could ever beg women to do because i've buried so much of my sexual assault for so many years, each one took 10 years from the date of the assault for me to ever tell anyone -- anyone about them. you have to speak out. you have to say something, not just for the fact that there may be something can be done about it but also it's very emancipating to release that shame and put it out into the world away from yourself. it's important to tell someone and have people look after you. don't do what i did, which is swallow it for so long. then it just ate me alive and made me afraid of sex and afraid of people. i suggest you go and get help. i think emdr therapy and post-traumatic stress -- >> what is that? >> emdr is a special therapy for ptsd that i think is incredible and it really helped me with overcoming my sexual assault. but i think you need to reach out to people, and you need to go to the law, and we need to keep fighting.

it's been so inspiring to see that this is going on as long as it is, and that even at that high up a level where someone could be quite well-protected and people could be silenced, we are still listening to women. we need more of this, and women need to know that you have the right to speak out. it is not your fault. you did nothing to encourage it. you did not deserve it, and you must say something. >> i am envious of how unapologetic you are. and i walked into this wondering if that was innate or if that is learned, but what i'm hearing is that it's been a process. >> mm-hmm. yeah, yeah. i was -- i had huge anxiety and depression in my 20s. i had a nervous breakdown at 26 until i was about 27, that i had to hide because i was still a live-tv presenter, which is probably where my acting comes from, being able to hide a nervous breakdown but i was mad. and -- >> was there something that triggered it? >> yes, but it was too personal to say. but it was kind of a big event in my life, within my personal life, that sort of just was the straw

that broke the camel's back. and so that kind of -- it's also around that age that i think you start to fully process the things that have happened to you, you know, in your childhood and in your youth. >> the one through line that runs through all of the work that you've done is that you have been a public person and in the public eye... >> yeah. >> ...for a very long time. no one and nothing can prepare you for that. >> no. >> what has the process of becoming a public person been for you? >> ugh. trial and error. so much error. i was not born for this industry at all. and i don't think before i speak, and i can act emotionally rather than intellectually sometimes, which is a nightmare if you're on twitter and i say the wrong thing and my ignorance can be problematic. and i'm trying to grow from it and learn from it. and old mistakes you've made are like a tattoo when you're famous, and they never go away. and all i can ever do is continue to learn and openly apologize and beg forgiveness of those that i offend if i didn't know something. but i hope people know that i don't come from a place of malice,

just probably some internalized misogyny sometimes or some internalized shame or my own pain that's pouring out. it's hard to live in an industry where people want to invade your privacy as much as they do, which is kind of why i've kind of just become an open book, because i'm tired of trying to hide everything that all the time. i think my willingness to fail is the one thing that i hope will make me a good role model to young people, that it's okay to fail as long as you keep trying. >> jameela, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> it's okay to fail as long as you keep trying. an incredibly honest interview with the actress jameela jamil. that is it for our program tonight. thank you for watching this special edition of "amanpour & co." on pbs, and join us again tomorrow night. ♪ >> uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & co." when bea tollman founded a collection of boutique hotels, she had bigger dreams, and those dreams

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