captioning sponsored by newsho productions, llc uf >> woo good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, a shutdown stalemate. president trump walks out of a meeting with congressional leaders at the white house, tweeting the negotiations were a "total waste of time." then, hothe shutdown is impacting immigration courts judges are working without pay and many migrants are seeing their cases delayed, sometimes for years. plus, virtual reality allows doctors to take patients and families on an immersive tour o, the brrior to surgery. >> i tell people all the time, as i'm preparing for surgery scrolling through m.r.i.'s if only i could shrink myself down to this small, and insself into this space, and just take a look around. atand that's, effectively ou can do with this technology. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: a wipeout at the white house. the latest meeting between president trump and congressional leaders has ended abruptly, in a new round of recriminations. that leaves much of the devernment still shut down, over the issue of a bwall. congressional correspondent lisa desjardins reports. >> desjardins: iwas the shortest shutdown meeting yet. enis afternoon, house speaker nancy pelosi and se minority leader chuck schumer were in the white house for about 30 prnutes, when schumer said the ident ended the meeting, refusing to reopen government. >> well, unfortunately the president just got up and walked out. he asked saker pelosi do you agree to my wall, she said no

and he just got up and said we have nothing to discuss and he just walked out. >> desjardins: as democrats spoke, president trump tweeted confirmation that he ended today's talks. >> we just ended a very short meeting in the situation room. >> desjardins: republicans, led by vice president pence pointed to democrats as the problem, saying they made it clear they will not move closer to the president's position on the ll. >> today in this brief meeting we heard once again that democratic leaders are unwilling to even negotiate to end the shutdown and the crisis at the border. >> desjardins: this was the capstone to a day where the two sides moved farther apart. >> stop playing chickewith our lives! >> desjardins: democrats started the morning flanked by furlou >> the first order of business: open up the government, youth heese people.

>> desjardins: among them, holly solami, who had worked at housing and urban development and now heads a local union chapter. he said it's not just workers, but those in federsing who are at risk. >> if there's a problem, there's no one at hud to call. in some cases people are facing evicon. da desjardins: this as president trump spent the underscoringff his oval oe address last night about border security and his demand for a sthern border barrier. at a bill signing, he said "wall." >> we can all play games, but a ll is a necessity.l the other things, the sensors and the drones, are all wonderful to have, and it works well but only if you have the wall. if you don't have the wall it doesn't maer. >> desjardins: the president did take time to address divisions in his own party. the president and vice president lunched with republican senators. sources say the president privately called for unity. publicly he was confident and

praised g.o.p. leader mitch mcconnell. >> i would say we have a very, very united party mitch has been fantastic, everyone in that root astic. >> desjardins: still, several republican senators are signaling otherwise. alaska's lisa murkowski, colorado's cory rdner, and maine's susan collins have signaled they are ready to act on bills passed by house democrat to reopen most government. that legislation funds most agencies for the rest of the year, and funds d.h.s. for one month, giving me for more border security talks. but republican leader mitch mcconnell says no deal will get a vote until the president, and all sides, support it. >> we're all behind the president. we think the border security issue is extremely important to this country. >> djardins: another sign th leaders are moving farther from any middle ground. today vice president pence seemed to reach out to the conservative base, speaking to talk radio host rush limbaugh with uncompromising tone. >> president trump and i and our entire team is determi

stand firm until the democrats in congress come to the table and work with us to secure the s,rder, build a wall, end this humanitarian crind do what's right for the american people. >> desjardins: tomorrow leaders again go in diffent directions. house democrats plan to pass separate bills reopening most agencies, and the president plans to visit the texas borderh to reinfor case for a wall. >> woodruff: lisa joins me now from capitol hill along with yamiche alcindor from the white house. yamiche, that was quite a meeting by all accounts. tell us what is the president saying about it, and i guess, afterwards, the vice president came out with other republicans and talked to you and other reporters. >> well, negotiations essentially spun out of conol and hit a road block. this was quite a scene on theus white lawn today. the democrats were saying that the president threw a tempe

tantrum and theic republans are saying the democrats were not telling the truth. the president, a few minutes after the meeting that was supposed to be longer but ended about 30 minutes, tweeted "just left the meeting withhuck and nancy, a total waste of time. i asked what is going to happen in 30 days if i quickly open things up, are you going to l prove border security which includes a walor steel barrier? nancy said no. i said bye-bye. nothing else worked. president schiewmer then said hae president slammed hisds on the table while he was in a meeting, and i talked to vice predent pence about that and said what was the mood in the meeting and are closer to a national emergency? vice president pence said the president walked into the room and passed outs candy. i don't recall him raising his voice or slamming his hands. mpat we have is two letely different story about how the meeting went. what is clear is thiengs will prolonged. the shutdown is not ending soon, nsd democrats and republi are going back to their corners.

>> woodruff: so, lisa, to you, now, what are people saying on the hill about this, about whate the akdown of these talks yet again and how long do they think this can gn? >> house speaker nancy pelosi returned to the hill and told asreporters the president being petulant, in her words, and repeated some of what she said at the white house. i spoke to republican house members on their way toa te. it's fascinating. several of them shrugged. one of them literally shrugg and said that's how things are right now, it's broken town tooi thisnt. however, we'll also say, republican house members seem to be coalescing around the president more than i've seen before. the president seems to have convinced at least house republicans that he is very serious of pushing for his wall. se the words of hou republicans, they think democrats need to bring an offer to the table.ey something eeded to hear from the house members last week and they're saying it more and more. however, democrats are saying

the president is not som can be negotiated with now, he is being unreasonable and unruly and, here's the resting party, judy, democrats are saying they think the pressure needs h be on mi mcconnell, that they think senate republicans are the place where there could with a seeakthrough in t negotiations and they want to add pressure on those senate republicans. we'll see if that ha >> woodruff: pointing fingers in the opposite direction, both sides are. yamiche, we know that there areo polls ng that, bare majority, but a majority of americans blame the president shutdown. what do we know about how he's nion?g to change public opi >> well, the president is trying to change public opinion by meeting with lawmakers pe on, by going on tv and sending other representatives for the white house on tv and by going on conservative talk the president today held a meeting with congressional senate republicans an, in that meeting, he repeatedly said we need to have unity, we need to be strong, this is probably the best time we are going to have

to get funding for the wal so stick with me. the other thing thpat's imortant is vice president pence went on rush limbaugh're conservative radio show today. monday vice president pence said he hates the word base and says this is not abo politics. but today he went on rush limbaugh and said thank you for all you're doing to us and building this movem the president will be going to the border tomorrow and talking to people in texut abohat he sees as a crisis on the border. so the white house is using its messaging power all over as much as they can to make the case this is a crisis and thdee crats are in the wrong here. n woodruff: lisa, quickly, political dynamicshe hill, how do members of congress seem? it ppears they aretting farther apart. >> judy, this is a little bit house and senate. i spoke to a plugged-in house republican and he told me listen, most house republicans tonight have federal workers in their district, so h point-blank said it's not in our

interest to end this shutdon. intered him and say, yes, but there are interest groups, stoms, border patrol and officers who won't bed. he said, once we see law enforcement suffering, that might ve the dial for republicans. but other wise, federal workerob m is not the problem, we care more about border security andty it's a serious threat. democrats think this is a very large politicalistake for republicans and walking out of a meeting could cost them fornd monthsyears. we'll see. >> woodruff: apparently farther apart, the two sides are. lisa desjardins and yamiche alcindor, thank you both. >> thanks. >> woodruff: we will look at the effects of the shutdown and where to go from here after the news summary. in the day's other news, there's word that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein will leave the justice departme, once a new attorney general is confirmed.

rosenstein oversees special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation, and has often been attacked by president ump. william barr would assume that oversight role, if he becomes attorney general. he met with republican senatorsc today,ding lindsey graham of south carolina. >> i asked mr. barr directly, do you think bob, mr. mueller is ou a witc, he said, "no." do you see any reason for mr. bmueller's investigation stopped. he said no. do you see any basis forn terminatr cause? he said no. g are you committed to makre that mr. mueller can finish his job? paes." >> woodruff: in th, barr criticized the russia investigation, but today, he said mueller is doing an excellent job. the israeli security service shin bet vowed today to block foreign interference in israel's upcoming elections. the agency's chief had warned that foreign power is trying

to meddle in the campaign. suspicion quickly felln russia, but the kremlin denied any involvement. iran has confirmed the arrest of a u.s. navy veteran, but is not saying what he is charged with. michael white is the fst american known to be detained there since president trump took office. he disappeared while visiting iran last july. news of the arrest comes as the u.s. is ratcheting up economic sanctions on tehran. secretary of state mike pompeo was in iraq today, offering reassurance about the fate of kurdish fighters in syria. they have fought the islamic state group, but turkey regards the kurds as terrorists, and it's threatening to attack them, .s. withdraws from syria. pompeo held meetings in bathdad, and raqi kurds in irbil. he insisted the syrian kurds ar ing abandoned. >> these have been folks that ought with us and it is important that we do everything we can to ensure that those folks that have fought with us

are protected. >> woodruff: from iraq, pompeo moved on to egypt. he wl travel to saudi arabia and other gulf states later. the president of sudan has rejected demands for his resignatio despite three weeks of protests. omar al-bashir insisted today that he will leave only he's voted out.po he took wer in a military coup in 1989. as al-bashir spoke, hundreds of anti-government demonstrators marched in the city of omdurman. they headed for parliament before police intervened. thousands of garment workers in bangladesh took to the streets for a 4th day, demanding better pay. protesters shut down factories apd blocked roads on the outskirts of the cital, dhaka. that set off clashes with riot police, who used water cannons and batons to disperse the crowds. local reports said one demonstrator was shot dead.

in the philippines, a colossal crowd of catholic faithful joined in a daylong procession for the "black nazarene," a centuries-old statue os christ. up to five million peoplehe mathrough manila alongside the carriage holding the statue. many said they believe it has healing powers. >> ( translated ): first my daughter had crvcer and she ed, she survived cancer twice. o en my husband got a lung disease and he arvived. then my first born was able to get a good job. because of the black nazarene. >> woodruff: spanish missionaries are said to have brought the statue tmanila, in the 1600's. it was burned black during a fire on the ship that rried it. back in this country, president trp has formally nominated andrew wheeler to run the environmental protection agency. the former energy lobbyist has been serving as acting e.p.a. chief since july. wheeler's predecessor, scott pruitt, resigned last summer

amid scrutiny of his spending and various ethical issues. toyota irecalling another 1.3 million vehicles in the u.s. over faulty air bag inflators. they're blamed for at least 23 deaths around the world. some 50 million air bag inflators made by takata have been recalled in recent years. one-third of them have yet to be replaced. and, on wall street, the dow jones industrialverage gained 91 points to close at 23,879. the nasdaq rose 60, and the s&p 500 added 10.to still come on the newshour: what will it take to find a deal open the government. why the shutdown is adding to already overwhelmed immiuration . virtual reality gives patients and doctors an inside look at the brain.wr plus, how one er's decision m speak about her rape inspired a new book, and mue.

>> woodruff: the breakdown of talks at the white house today demonstrates the deedivides on both policy and politics. we want to get two tes now on where things could go after this latest stalemate. we begin with man who has served in many key roles in washington: leon panetta. he served as defense secretary under president obama. he was also chief of sta for president clinton during the longest government shutdown to date. leon panetta, welcome back tows the "neur". so today saw yet another breakdown in a meeting between the president and democratic leaders. as somebody who's overseen and uglived tha shutdown in the past, how do you see what's going on now? >> well, judy, i think -- i think we all have to begin with

a basic premise here which is that there is no justifiable reason, whether it's a wall or whher it's war, to justify shutting the government down. the government needs to continue to fuction, the american people are entitled to the services that are provided, and we shouldn't use federal employe as pas in this kind of political conflict. i think, ultimately, there's only oneay to get out of this mess, which is toeopen the government, open it on a short-term basis, if necessary, and then sit down and negotiate on some kind of comprehensive approach to border securit that's the only sane way to try to get out of this mess. >> woodruff: but, right now, president trump is saying he won't do that. should the democrats give in some way in order to get the president to agree to open the government and then talk about the border? >> i think the most important --

important issue right now is not to keep the government shut down. there's no reason for that. people are not getting paycheck their families are hurting, we ar are punishing innocent people in this process, there's no excuse for that. t so reop government, and then i think the democrats ought to commit themselves to sitdotig and negotiating on border security. th oe are a lot of area border security where there's agreent -- the need for technology, the need for personnel, the need for judges, the need for humanitarian assistance. as far as a wall is cncerned, republicans and democrats in the past have agreed on physical ban iers to be used ikey areas along the border. i think there are ways to resolve this, but the president is going to have to say that he is willing t negotiate without

necessarily getting the money he wants for a wall, and i think he's put himself in a very difficult position where it's the wall or nothing. >> woodruff: so when speaker pelosi in response to the president reportedly in that meeting at the white house today when the president aske her, if i agree to open the government, we talk about this in a month aboubowhat to do aut border security, the border wall, would you be willing to do that, and she said no, was that the right answer? >> well, my understanding from those eat were present was asked, if i open up the government in 30 days, would you be willing to agree on a wall, and she said no. she's alwa made her poition pretty clear with regards to a wall, as have the democrats and, frankly, there are republicans opposed to a wall approach. if the president could sell a wall, he would have done it the last two years wi aepublican majority in both the house and

de senate. he's been unable that. so the issue is going to come down to do we wantal border security to deal with the crisis along the border. there are ways too this, ways both sides can agree to, t t issue of a wall, if it's about a concrete wall on the border, i think that bically shs down any possibility of negotiation. >> woouff: i guess the president is now talking about a wall made out of steel, but, leon panetta, right now you've got both sides saying i'm not budging anymore. this is it. how long canhis go on? >> well, having gone through this when was chief of staff to bill clinton, we went through a lot of negotiations. while we were not able to rive at any connsus, the government shut down, and ultimately what happened is the political impacs

of thatdown and the people that were affected began to really hurt the republican leadership in the congress, and i think the same thing's going to happen here. you cannot have people losing kseir paychyou cannot have people hurting with their families, you cannot have people going without food, not able to get loans.w you cannot alat to continue to happen and not have a political impact from that taking place. when thathappens, then the president and the republicans and the democrats as well will agreethat it's time to opn up the government and then get back to the business of the country >> woodruff: well, that's exactly what i want to ask you about because, right now, the pos are showing republicans are overwhelmingly with the president on this. i saw 77% of republicans, i was looking at a poll, want additional border fencing. the president is listening to ps. base, listening tou

to -- listening to republicans. >> i tnk there's no question that he has support along with his basebut the question is what is it we need in ord to ensure good border security? that is the fundamental question. we all agree on the crisis. so what are the steps needed in order to get border security. yes, we agree on technology, we agree on personnel, we agrnee younjudges and othereteps that d to be taken. with regards to a wall, i think ose that are experts with regard to security have said, yes, we can use some physical barriers, yes, we can use some fencing. i think there should be some agreement along those lines. >> woodrbuf: right. as to a wall, i just don't think that there's going to be any support for tha >> woodruff: very quickly, leon panetta, if you were here

today in hington, what would you do if you were at the white house as chief of staff or o capitol hill? >> you know, i understand the politics, everybody's paintedse thes into a corner, but i i think it's the responsibility of the president of the united states to protect this country, and it isn't just about the security along the border. it's about the operations of government on behalf of the people of this country. the purpose of government is not to punish our people, it is t help our people, and that's why he should take steps to open up the government and then get a commitment from the democrats to negotiate on border security. at's the best way out of this mess. >> woodruff: former defense secretary leon panetta, we thank you. and for a republican's take, we turn now to a member of their house leadership team,

representative doug collins of congressman collins, welcome back to the "newshour". i think you just heard leon paneea say th president, it's one thing to be worried about the border, but what president needs to be more concerned about is the country overall, the american people overall and the welfare of this country. >> judy, i think he's exactly right, but i think he's exactly i ght for a reason he doesn't believe. lieve what is happening right now at the border is that the democrats are putting the lives of others whore coming to our country, trying to come in illegally, ahead of the rightsof americans who are here. i believe the president is putting americans first, i beeve he is putting our tizenry first. need a bransed approach. no one on the hill, myself and others including the president, have said the border wall and security measures are the only thing we need. there are humanitarian and healthealth and safety issues, e are issues our laws are giving a perverse incentive for people to me across the border and make

the long, danger tr here. the president is looking out for the american people, and imes when the democrats are not coming to the table, they are telling the americans we prefer to be on the side of those ying to break illegally into the country and not the side of the president. >> woodruff: democrats certainly wouldn't age with that. but in every confrontation the president is bringing p a physical wall at the border. ou've described a number of things it seems trties could come to an agreement on. why does the wall itself have to be resolved before federal workers are relieved of what's going on right now, the situation where n they'reot getting paid and enduring hardships? >> well, at this point in time, i think the president has made it clear, and i think the reason is the wall hs nod been

addressed. the democrats have addressed building more wall and even saying we want border security. rityquestion is border secu has got to take place because so many times in the past we see we're going to secure the border, put fences up and do tho teches and things we need to do, but at the end we end up not doinghose things and in the past we gave amnesty in the way, we gave pathways for people to stay and we've not addressed there. there has to be a twofold approach. there has to be a security piece and the piece y we actuaook at to fix it. >> woodruff: but in the meantime as we again heard from oton panetta anders, the americans, those who work for the federal government, arepu beingnished because of this unwillingness to bend at the highest levels of the leadership of our country.l, >> wt this point in time, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, i agree we neeto have a discussion this is not where he e need to be.

the president said we need border security and wall, he's made it clear. he said if i opened it today, would we have a discussion on the wall and border security in 30 days, nancy pelosi said no. her priorities are still on boa er situation in which if you ask specifically what are you wanting to do to fix the issue we're not getting that, she just says we're not going to work on it. yet in the past democrats such as hillary clinton, barack obama and yes evn chuck schumer have voted for border security wall. ey just use it as a political tool now not to deal with security. m> woodruff: it's my understanding the ocratic leadership are saying we will talkebout security, it's th wall that's the issue. let me turn to the house. the democrats have started tonight today to pass bills tod open up inividual agencies overgift, the i.rur.s., tre and others andight republicans have voted with the democrats.

are you conrn there are cracks in the republican support for your side of this argument? >> no, if you go back and look at my voting history, even when we're in the majoty. the leadership have five, six, seven republicans vote no. we're just not alocays in step. that is not a significant number. the overwhelmingly ty of republicans are focused on a plan to say we will deal with th as a package because what the democrats want to do is take away the incentive to get this ing solved and if all you're focusing on is opening the government and making it painless, then they can keep kicking the can of border security down the line. we are standing with the president on this, we want t see a deal, we want to work it out, but even democrats we talked to on the for tonight are wanting to find and the question that came from many ofw them to me wasan we get out of this. they understand it is not just i singsue, and we've got to work on that. >> woodruff: finally, congressman collins, the statistics, the numbers the president continues to cite, it's clear that some of those

are just eitheat-out wrong or greatly exaggerated. for example, talking about the spike in illegal drugs coming across the border, those arely appareost or all of them are coming through legal ports of entry, something au wall wold not address. talking about the security mucrisis at the border, s of this has to do with people seeking asylum, seeking legal asylum, the u.s. not having the capacity to deal with that. again, not something a wall uld address. so how do you get at the core just flat-out disaeement ov what's true here? >> what is true is we have0, 0 people coming across detained at the border. i don't think anybody wuld agree that's not a large number. what's a large number is 50 people coming across with medical care day.or the t decision which

encourages families to come across and th decision says we can detain them 20 days to determine their sta gs. they are l, they go out into the country and their decision is decided many year later. asylum issues, when they want to claim asylum at the border, i understand they'd admit credible fear, but after adjudicated, less than 20% are allowed to stay. >> woodruff: my point is that souldn't be resolved by a wall. >> walls -- but judy, not dealing with a wall, not dealing with border security and onlyyi to deal with other issues, you've got to take away the incentive and barrier. arder patrol say border walls actually work, to deny that istr noe. the only issue is not being a colete picture person. i want to be a complete picture perp. i want a wall and security and we feed to fix the perverse inceptives that me parents take their children and go on

dangerous journeys. >> woodruff: congressmanin cofrom the house, republican leadership, thank you very much. >> judy, good to see you. >> woodruff: as this partial shutdown grinds on tonight, we get two more looks at its ripple hefects. by all accounts,ation's immigration courts are overburdened: approximately 800,000 cases, bei handled by ound 400 immigration judges. now, because of the shutdown,os most of cases are on hold. amna nawaz takes it awom there. >>: in every case before ifem, immigration judges are the arbiter, decidinmmigrants who appear in their court have thgal permission to stay i u.s., or if they may have to be deported. for a closer look at what the shutdown means for the mmigration court system, joined by judge danna leigh marks. she's a spokeswoman for and president emeritus of the national association of immigration judges. me. let's begin with the shutdown. who's working, who not.

what's been the effective cases that are already in the pipeline? >> it's been a devastating impact to have our immigration courts shut down. you're well aware of the tremendous backlog, ae only judges who are working are those who are hearing cases of individuals who are held in custody by the immigration officials. all of the non-detained cases in courts which are the vast majority of r dockets are on hold for the indefinite fute. >> nawaz: so we know some of these cases can take years to anfold. what does that or the future of those cases? >> it's very difficult to make that assessment. i know for me in san francisco, for example, i have a pending load of over 4,000 cases, so o mathe cases that are being canceled for the shutdown have been on my docket already for two or three or four years, and now i have no time inhe foreseeable future to reset them. it could be another three or four years before those people can expect hearings on their

cases. >> so we heard about that backlog. that is now at a record high, and if you take a look at those numbers, those have been going up rapidly or theast ten years. i just guess the question is how did we get here? h it has been a long time in coming throoth democratic and republican administrations. while there has been a big focus on immigration enforcement, there has not been sufficient focus to the immigration court syste . weused in the department of justice, and, frankly, the department of justice has not advocated either as forcefully or skillfully for us as the department of homeland security's enforcementesources has grown. what's happened for the courts is we have fallen behind and not received proportional increases that we would need t stay current with the cases that come into our system. >> nawaz: judge mar haven't to ask you about a issue

that came into focus because of the shutdown of the border. asylum cases comfrom guatemala, el salvador and honduras. the government sd the vast majority of these are not with merit, that ultimately these are not granted asylum. i guess my question is if they can find a way to limit the number ofcases coming to your court, wouldn't that help to alleviate the backlog >> it's not quite that simple, amna. it is a very complicated assessment to determine whether or not someone is qualified for asylum. i describe it as being like a thousand-pie puzzle, and yo have to have every piece visible. so in order tteo rmine whether or not someone is eligible, congress has decided that these people are entitled to a hearing before an immigration judge sop that the per legal analysis can be applied to their case. that's what our law provides and, frankly, that's what international treatise that weor are signs of require of

us. so it would require a change in the govrning law, not just a change in the policy in order to try to make a big impact on ose kinds of cases. >> nawaz: judge marksthere an argument made by the administration that our legal process has built into it t loopholet people coming who apply for asylum and stay for years because to have the pace in the backlog, and thatde makes it hwhen their cases are ultimately denied to get them out of the country, what to you sa that? >> our organization firmly believes that everyone ised entio their day in court and that it should occur in aas ably prompt amount of time, but the reason that there are delays in our system is simpcause we have been underfunded and ignored for so long. the system does work, when it receives the prounper ng, and it's not a loophole. it is t appropriate due process that is what american justice provides to any individual who has their life and liberty at stake before our

courts. >> judgeanna leigh marks, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you so much, amna. >> woodruff: one more take on the impact of this partial ilutdown, now in its 1h day william brangham us in on some of the many ways science and research are feeling the hit. >> brangham: there are thousands of resrchers who are furloughed or working without pay at agencies like the e.p.a., the national oceanic and amospheric administration, the u.s. department iculture and the u.s. geological survey. and there are many others who don't work directly for the government, but who are still feeling the pinch. people like the men and women at various universities who get federal money for their research. with the shutdown, the pipeline for that money is now blocked. with all these scientists idled, many argue that some important work, things like the regular monitoring of chemicals, to tracking endangered species, is also not happening. rush holt is the c.e.o. of the american association for the advancement of science. he's also a former congressmaner from newy and joins me now.

welcome to the "newshour". >> thank you. ham: can you give us a sense just of the scope and scale of the kinds of scithence have been idled by the shutdown? >> sure. itusands and thousands of scientists who are missing their weekly paycheck, but they are also running into delays, disruptions, sometimes ruination of their resrch projects. >> brangham: ruination? wellsuppose you have a timed series and you have to get a sample every week,n every moth for it to work. g suppose you'ng field study and you're looking at smr creatures, when the stream is at a certain level in january. suppose you are preparing a space mission, a satellite science mission, you've got a certain launch window. n brangham: i haven't e thought about those kinds of impacts. >> suppose you're looking at insects and you have to look, during the week in the year,

when they mate. u know, if the government is closed that week and you collect th that's a problem. >> brangham: such a remarkable array of work we don't necessarily think of as being gornment-funded work. i mentioned some of the agencies at the top. are there other federal agencies those that are doing particular work that's coming to a sto >> national science foundation, of course, is all fields of science. the census bureau out of thepa ment of congress, there are many social scientists either that use thosedata or are employed -- those data or are a.ployed to an size those dat the weather forecasters are kept on the job, but the people who tweak the weather models are not, and as we see snowstorms predicted in the eashet re, we'll see whether these weather forecasters ar as accurate as they might normally be. >> brangham: do you think

that, when we looeak back a yr or two or three years from now, that there will be amo trable impact on the scientific community and scientific research in the u.s.? >> it's going to be hard t measure, but i don't doubt it. it's very interconnected. but at a time when we are ernationd in int comparisons about how the u.s. science effort stacks up, this is n a good time to slow down. you know, the chinese just landed on the hark side e the moon, and we have -- dark side of thmoon, and we have researchers who she they should be doing work to help national security and humwelfare and safety and public health, the very things that aret stake here, they're waiting at home for the phone call to go back to work. >> brangham: rush holt for the american association for the advancement of sciehank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and speaking of science and research, our next story explores some ways virtual reality may get more

encorporated into medicine. special correspocat wise js our look. >> reporter: a qourney through a scenic woodlands.ap a dangerous between two buildings. a tour of the international space station. li-like experiences made possible these days through the lensesf virtual reality headsets. the technogy now used to battle evil, was first used more than 20 years ago help patients overcome phobias. y use then, virtual real in the medical field has come a long way. a growing number of medical schools are using v.r. to help students practicoperating room skills. to engage in realistic patient interactions, and to learn the intricacies of the human body. some hospitals are now using v.r. to counsel patients about complex interventions and to help reduce stress andain

during difficult procedures. i heoakland, california, the u.c.s.f. benioff children's hospital is among the first in the country to take pediatric patients, and their families, on a virtual reality tour of their own brain. >> straight down to it. did yout wagrab it? >> reporter: roughly three dozen patients, ages six to 18, haven tae virtual tour prior to having surgery for cancer, epilepsy and several other disorder the technology, which generates a virtual model of a patient's owr.anatomy from c.t. and m. scans, was developed by a startup called surgical theater. >> okay, mom and dad can you see ? we're going all the way in jade's brain. >> reporter: t families' tour guide is also their neurosurgeon, dr. kurtis auguste. >> i tell people a the time, as i'm preparing for surgery scrolling through m.r.i.'s if only i could shrink myself dow

to this small, and insert myself into this space, and just take a look around. and that's, effectively what you can do with this technology. >> reporter: dr. augusteas been performing brain surgeries on children for more than a decade. he's often had to convey complex information using plastic brain, models, 2d imand even paper and pen. >> and then i have the same conversation using v.r. it's just like the clouds part, and there's this epiphany, oh, that's what you were talking about. it still gives me goosebumps because these kids really engage with it.ep >>ter: the virtual worlds of video games are a welcome distraction for jake levin, a 15-year-old from reno, nevada who often has more serioustt s on his mind. jake has epilepsy.ng he's been halmost daily seizures, like the one in this home video, since mile school.ve recently they'revented him

e from playing his favoritort, basketball, competitively. bulyjake and his parents fin have some hope. an upcoming surgery to remove a small area of his brain causing the seizures. before then, thewere anticipating their first virtual reality experience. >> when dr. auste mentioned it to us, i just thought that was so cool. as strange as it sounds, i want to see the piece of tissue that's caused all these problems! >> i have one buddy who kept texting me saying have you flown through your brain yet, havelo your through your brain yet? >> reporter: that day finally arrived. >> hello, how are you guys doing? nice to see you. welcome, welcome. >> reporter: dr. auguste began the session by showing the family a rendering of jake's head with electrodes that were implanted several weeks before to determine where his seizure activity was occurring. >> you can see how we strategically place these electrodes. im>> reporter: then it wasto go "inside."

>> you guys think you want to fly for a little bit? everyone strapped in here? keep your arms and hands inside the ride at all times. >> reporter: after orienting the family in the new space... >> okay, stop for a second mom, look over your right shoulder, and dad and jake look over your shoulder, do you see me? >> reporter: dr. auguste led ctem to the trouble spot. >> all these eledes quiet until we get to here, electrode 3. and this is the source of your epilepsy. >> reporter: the red, orange, and yellow dots represent the electrical activity causing jake's seizures. >> the good news here t this is very, very safe. it's actually the preferable place to be fobrain surgery. >> reporter: while still exploring, i asked mom and dad what the experience was like. >> it provides a visceral kiperience compared to loo at 2d models. just incredible, it's st amazing. >> i was excited about it but this was like 10 times better.

>> reporter: as for jake... >> it's so much cooler than a video game. i'm feeling much more confident than i thought i would. >> reporter: but virtual reality does have its skeptics. >> right now virtual reality has a lot of hype behind it. >> reporter: michigan state university's marisa brandt has been studying virtual reality trends for the past decade. >> i think that there's a lot of potential benefit, but we don't want to be premature about it solving a lot of problems. if we want this to be a caring technology, we really have to ke sure that it's something that's for, and helps connect people.so nothing that's used to disengag >> reporter: u.c.s.f.'s dr. auguste agrees. he's been consulting, for free, for now, with the company thated desihe technology. but he says his patients are his first priority. >> first and foremost i'm a surgeon, i am the advocate of nois child. i'an advocate of this technology.s those of uon the front lines,

the innovators, the ones who are introducing this technology, have the most responsibility to hold on to the things that make us human beis. face to face contact, and being able to read someone's physical cues, are they comfortable, are they not. that's so important. >> reporter: just days after his brain tour, jake's surgery went smoothly. he's recovering now and hoping to be seizure-free and back on the basketball court by next season. for the pbs newshour, i'm cat wise in oakland, california. >> woodruff: finally, on our "bookshelf" tonight, jeffrey brown talks to an author who knows firsthand about rape. >> brown: december, 2012: 23 year old year jhoti singh, out to see a film with a male friend, is gang-raped and beaten on a bus in delhi. the attack, and her death days later, brought inter attention and condemnation. shortly after, an essay appearet

new york times that began: "32 years ago, when i wav 17 andg in bombay, i was gang raped and nearly killed." the title: "was wounded; my lanor wasn't." the writer was sohbdulali. oo we owe it to our kids to not have this be a tubject, and also to teach them respect,r boys and. i think it all boils down to a basic respect of you don't feel like you can go around the world just marauding and hurting people. and this is one of the ways it happens and this is a really damaging way, because we all get so weird about rape. >> brown: now, she's written a book: "what we talk about wn we talk about rape," that explores the subject from many angles, not so much giving answers as raising questions. i whit that we get wrong in our thinking about rape? >> we make it bigger than it should be, and at the same time we make it smaller than it should be.

it's such a loaded subject. if you think of onperson, say in a bedroom being raped by one tn, a woman and a man, it's a very personal act t moment. t then you sort of pull back the camera and you see the world and all that things that have led to this, it's much bigger. so i think it is wrong any time we try to make it too much with one lens, in a way. i think we do a disservice to both men and women the way we think about rape. a ume that men can't help themselves, and we also assume that women are completely broken and destroyed, which sometimes they are, but often they're not. >> brown: there's a tension you write about throughout your life that comes through in the book, nout having been raped, b wanting it to define you. >> i feel at defines me is not that i was raped, but that i took this ons a subject. you know, i'm 55. i look back and there are so many things, and a those happen to you and make you what you are.

it was a big thing, i'm t trying to say it's not a big thing. but it wasn't the big thing. >> brown: adulali grew up in mumbai, then called bombay. two years after being attacked by armed men while out for a walk with a male friend, she boldly wrote about it in an indian magazine, using her own name and photograph, becoming a rare public voice for a crime usually kept silent. she worked in a rape c center, as a journalist, became a writer, author of two novels, married and has raised a daughter who's now herself 17. in the new book, she has chapter titles such as: "who am i to talk?", "totally different, actly the same," and "teflon man". she offers personal stories of other rape victims about their periences and how they coped, and explores key, often complex oissues such as the meani

"consent." >> i believe firmly that consent is important and crucial, and that it's important to talk about things like affirmative consent. but i also think that no matter how many rules and guidelines we set down, until there's a basic thing ofomebody caring how you feel, until you have two people together and eh of them cares whether the other wants it or notices if the other's have a rdgood time, no amount of will help. we need the words. we need to train guys that u should care whether the woman's into it and we nd to train ourselves that it matters what we want. words are great, but i think there's more going on with consent. >> brown: you write about why women keep silent, partly it is about a sense of shame, enculturated, but partly you say because it often doesn't lead to anything. >> really, even in this day of #metoo, there's really not much reward for speaking out. look at the whole kavanaughg

thth christine blasey ford testifying, and there was so many senators and people who said, well, why should we believe her,he should have reported it right away. to me, having been through it,te it's so comp clear why she didn't speak up. you just want to put your clothes on and be done with it. you know you won't be believed. you feel embarrassed that you were in the room with this boy. it makes perfect sen to not spea >> brown: early on in the boo" you say, "w i realize that sometimes rape does have to do with sex." utusually rape is talked as power. >> it is an act of power, there's no qstion, but what u're actually has to do with sex. i'm never going to say rape is sex, because it's not, but it's a sexual weapon almost that you're using. foinstance when i was rape it was this gang of men, they were armed. think they were on drugs, i'm not sure. they thought the as a girl, ou not be out wandering with a boy. so it's not that it wasex, but there was a sexual rage there. so that's what i'm tal

about, it's like a perversion of sex. >> brown: what do victims of rape deserve from us, from people, from society? >> i think they deserve to be listened to and to be believed and to not he the default be" you're a liar" or "there's something wrong with you." they deserve to be seen as people who are still the same people they were before they were raped and not broken beings. but they also deserve to be seen as people who have been through terrible trauma, and theyse e to be supported. and they deserve justice. a system accountable, rapists.n >> brown: you started writing this before e #metoo movement really exploded. do you think that movements chanings, has changed things? >> i think #metoo has been e amazing, aecially in india .ight now it's really exploded and it's fantast but i mean, what does that mean, "change?" i think it's changed theer cotion.

whether anywhere one rape less happens because of it, i have no idea. i hope so, but how do we know. >> brown: you're looking back at this horrifying experience that you had when you were 17.yo anhave a 17 year old daughter now yourself. >> i do. she knows what happened to me. and we told her at a young enough age she knows i'm okay i got asked this question before, it's like "do you worry about your daughter now that this hapned to you?" but why wouldn't, i mean doesn't every parent do that i hope nothing happento her, but if something does, i know that she can be okay. i know she can be okay and be a happy person. i know she can have a good life. i know this because it happened to me. >> brown: the book is "what we talk about when we talk about rape," sohaila abdulali, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and that's the wshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. for all of us at the pbs senewshour, thank you and you soon.

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