hello, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour & company." here's what's coming up. he battled california's fires. now he's fighting to make ends meet. without pay. thanks to the government shutdown. we hear from a furloughed worker for the u.s. forest service. then -- >> i'm happy to repeat what i have said previously. >> leadership is no more steadfast on this side of the atlantic. two takes on brexit after a wild week in parliament, which is nearing a crucial vote. and the value of art in times of turmoil. the acclaimed german director of "the lives of others" on his new post-war epic. and finally -- >> can't give up. >> the everyday champions

pouring their heart and soul into changing one of america's most dangerous cities. uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & company." b. tollman is synonymous with style. so when she acquired uniworld, a butd rookie river cruiseline inspired by her ashford castle, she brought a similar style to the rivers. with a destiny style inspired for each ship. bookings available through your travel adviser. for more information visit uniworld.com. >> additional support has been provided by rosalynn p. walter, bernard and irene schwartz, sue and edgar wachenheim iii, the cheryl and phillip milstein

family, seton melvin, judy and josh weston, the jpb foundation, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. the government shutdown is about to be the longest in american history, surpassing the 1995 standoff between house speaker newt gingrich and president bill clinton. it's important to remember that this is not only a political fight over whether to fund president donald trump's southern border wall but a personal punch in the pocketbook for the many thousands of americans who work for the government and who are now going unpaid. either furloughed or forced to work without compensation. one such is mark munoz. he's a firefighter in california working for the u.s. forest service, and he puts his life on the line to protect his fellow americans including in this latest wild and deadly fire

season. the government shutdown means that he's sitting at home without pay, waiting for his representatives to sort out their mess, and he's joining me now from los angeles to talk about what impact it's having on him. mark munoz, welcome to the program. so i guess here we are. it's about three weeks since the shutdown began. i mean, what are you feeling? did you ever think it would get to this state? >> you know, we definitely prepared for this when we got word that the government was going to shut down. soon as we saw the government was shut down. >> tell me how for you personally. you said it was a punch in the pocketbook. everyday efforts to make ends meet. is that the case for you? >> most definitely. most folks are under the impression that all federal workers make a lot of money and that firefighters with the federal government make tons of

money, and that's not the case. already before the furlough a lot of our folks are working paycheck to paycheck. so with the furlough now involved with this it's a tremendous amount of stress that's put on the shoulders of every worker in the federal government. >> and for you specifically tere in los angeles, i mean, you have seven daughters and your wife is recovering from cancer. what does it mean on a daily basis for you? how do you feed, clothe, house, send to school your daughters, keep caring for your wife? >> you know, a lot of it's from savings, which is already gone already within the first two weeks of the furlough. a lot of it's picking up, you know, odd jobs, doing lawns, family support. we have also strong support from our union that's trying to end this shutdown right now. it's really -- it just comes down to support from your co-workers, your family and friends. >> how long do you think you can survive on that kind of, you know, sort of ad hoc, hand to mouth support? >> maybe another week.

>> wow. so what would you say to your representatives, to your congress and senators and to the president? what would you say? >> you know, both parties need to come together, come to an agreement, come to some common ground. this is affecting over 800,000 of your workers that want to give back to the community in this country. they want to get back to work. this stress is unneeded. it's unwanted. and it's not acceptable. i think the sooner you guys come to an agreement and some common ground we can get back to work and finish doing our job. >> what do you make of the president's trip to the border, for instance, and the issue of the border wall in this fight? >> you know, i think the whole issues with the border wall, do you support the wall, do you not support the wall, do you support our president, do we not support our president, i think that's bringing the biggest division right now and the biggest focus when the focus should be on the

employees that are not working right now. i think all that focus needs to be onto the employees that are furloughed at this time and that need to get back to work to support their families. >> well, you're absolutely right, and i'm sure every single one of them listening to you will agree with you because they just want to get to work. and i did mention obviously that you work for the forest service and that you have been battling those calamitous, deadly wildfires that we've seen all over the world. we've seen the pictures emanating. and we've been watching the heroic work that you and your fellow firemen have been doing. i mean, what happens if one of these breaks out right now? >> it's hard to say, you know. i don't want to speculate too far. but forest service firefighters, we are the backbone of the wildland fire community, and a lot of other agencies look up to us to get the job done if a wildland fire hits. southern california or actually throughout california, period,

is -- fire danger's very high, year-round. so for us to get a fire and us not be here, it could get pretty bad. >> you know, you said that you have been planning for this, you heard about the possible shutdown. but i guess it must go to the gut of your emotions when you think what you do for this country, what you do for your community and how you risk your life on a daily basis, you and your fellow firefighters, and many people in other professions, similar professions, front line frofgss. what do you say to your girls? what do they say to you? what is it like around the breakfast table or the dinner table at the munoz home? >> it's stressful. my daughters, my oldest is 19, my youngest is 12. so they understand what's going on and they can read me pretty well, better than anybody. and it's pretty stressful for them. i can see the heartache they have for me because they know that i love my job and love what

i do. it's a pretty stressful environment even in the home for my daughters and myself, my family. >> well, you're being really stoic, and we thank you for talking to us. all our hearts go out to you, you know, for trying to continue doing such valuable jobs and jobs you desperately need to make ends meet. we do hope for your sake this is resolved soon. mark munoz, thank you for joining me in california. >> thanks for having me. >> government dysfunction is a common affliction here across the pond in the uk as well where after the weekend parliament will vote on prime minister theresa may's proposed eu brexit deal. getting deja vu? well, you should be. the house of commons was meant to vote on this very bill last month. but the prime minister pulled it at the last minute rather than see it go down to certain defeat. and it still looks destined to fail in parliament. nothing has changed about this bill. and anyone who says they know what comes next is surely kidding themselves. and all of us too. the only certainty is that with no parliamentary action this

country will crash out of the european union at the end of march with no clear plan for the future. in a moment i'll speak with the acclaimed author afua hirsch to understand how this madness is affecting average brits. but first conservative m.p. rory twurt, who's a minister in may's government and who steadfastly backed her unpopular deal because he said it's the best of a bad situation. i spoke to him earlier this week as he was standing outside parliament while this debate was ongoing and while protesters continue to drown out the side that they didn't want to hear. >> rory stewart, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> there you are outside the houses of parliament. a lot of debate going on before this crucial vote. you're a loyal torrrtorry. you're a supporter of the prime

minister. and the yet she has lost two important votes this week in the space of 24 hours on brex brexit-related matters and it looks like the vote on her deal is going to go down to defeat. what can you say at this point to assure the nation, the world that the government knows what's going on? >> well, i think the first fundamental thing that underlies all of this is that the government doesn't have the majority in parliament. so all of this is happening on a knife's edge. if even one direction or another the government can always use the debate. and this brexit debate is so fractured, so divided between people who either want no deal or no brexit it's very difficult to get a stable deal through. what we have to keep arguing for is the merits of the deal. that's proving difficult. >> it's proving very difficult. to be honest with you, this is what you and all the others said to us before when theresa may was about to put the deal to parliament and they then had to pull it knowing it was going down to defeat. to your mind, has she or have

the negotiators or has anything changed about this deal that would make it more likely to pass or make any difference in the sort of month there's been a hiatus on the vote? >> i think there are two things which have changed a bit over christmas. some colleagues are beginning to recognize that this is actually the only deal on the table and the only alternatives to this deal arrive at trying to remain in the european union or doing the really catastrophic thing of crashing without with no deal at all. so at least it's cleared the air from people who had fantasies it was some alternative brexit deal out there. that's gone. the second change is you're beginning to get a little bit of movement from the european union but still not a legal text. none of the movement has been reassuring language. that may not yet be enough to bring colleagues across the line. >> you say might not yet be

enough. but do you have any instinct that european leaders are nothing but weary and don't have any stomach much less time to have any meaningful negotiations? >> you're absolutely right. european leaders will by this stage be weary. they've been through two years of negotiation as has the prime minister. but they like the prime minister are face facing the fundamental fact that it isn't the majority in parliament. and of course the british public is divided. it was a close vote. 52% for brexit, 48% for remain. and that division goes to the heart of this. the prime minister and european leaders are just having to be pragmatic and in the end trust we need a deal and that deal needs to be a 340d rat deal. it needs to be a pragmatic deal. it needs to be a deal that heals the country again, that brings together the 52% who voted for brexit and the 48% who vote odd for remain. and that can only be a deal somewhere in the middle. a deal that is a brexit deal

that leaves the european union but remains very closely connected to it economically, politically, dimtically. as britain looks at europe changing over the next five to ten years it has options of re-engaging at different levels. >> you have talked about trying to heal this rift. i mean, it is a really, really big rift. and we've had and we can show pictures of one of your own colleagues, tory m.p. anna seubri who has been harassed with the most vile and terrible and violent threats against her. another m.p. has had death threats against him. and this does not look like a country or in fact a debate or leadership on both sides of the aisle that has any notion of how to bring the country back together again. does that orth you? does that worry you? >> it does worry. of course it does. and across europe new forms of

populism. some of this is driven by social media. to some extent it's difficult to disentang the the the people here in parliament who are very vocal for the country as a whole. i did a debate in my constituency where i got brexiteers and remainers in a room, nearly 350 people. i was very, very worried it was going to be an extremely violent, difficult debate bep talked for an hour and a half and it was quite calm. i didn't think we want to exaggerate this, but you're absolutely right. there's something nasty happening. there's an increasingly toxic polarizing tone coming from this whole discussion of brexit. and you say these slightly comical idiots behind me trying to hit bells to prevent this disgustingness as one example of one of the problems of having a very not mature constructive discussion, very technical issues in a 500-page document while some lunatic is banging a bell. >> on that note, rory stewart, we'll be watching. and of course next tuesday is the vote and we will no doubt

have you back to discuss what happened there. thanks a lot, rory. next we're going to talk to afua hirsch. she is a writer. she's a social commentator. she's the author of "british on race, identity and belonging." afua, welcome to the program. you've been listening to rory stewart put on the best face on what is an untenable situation. he would be a tory moderate. >> absolutely. >> and he's trying to kind of knit the country together again. but behind him you heard these bells. this is now the protesters deciding that this is their latest tactic, to shut down any debate with the press by any mps who are not hard lines brexiteers. what's your comment on that? >> it's a difficult climate. we have got a surge in protests at the moment. i think tensions are extremely high and the stakes are getting higher the closer we're getting to the debate we're meant to be withdrawing from the eu. it's very difficult to draw a line between legitimate protests, which is something that we value as a constitutional principle, part of our parliamentary democracy, and which can be annoying like

the bells we heard behind rory stewart. to the other side of it, which is aggressive behavior, designed to intimidate, scare, even attack. people carrying out their democratic duties as mps and those of us in the public as well who have vocal views that also appear in the media. and i think -- >> such as yourself. >> i have also -- i mean, not a day goes by when i'm not the target of hate. some of it is violent and threatening. what i fear is this has become so normalized that we rarely speak about it. i rarely call the police. that kind of behavior which has been happening to many commentators, which has been happening to many black mps, david lambee, diane albert among those who have had horrifically violent messages. now that it's happened to someone who is a well-known member of the conservative -- >> let's say who it is. anna seubri. she's a remainer. >> and also a moderate voice in the conservative party. she was surrounded by extremely

violent threatening people who call them protesters but i would say more were thuggish intimidators. on her way into parliament. and i think for many people that image really took them over the line ane made them realize the state of things that hostile behavior has become part of daily life. >> let's -- before we get back into the specifics of the brexit-induced social dysfunction in this country right now. you have this tribalized, highly politicized debate which are not debate as you described, they are insults, intimidatiointimid bells. but it's not just you. it's in the united states as well. we're in the midst of a government shutdown there 37 do you see the parallels? >> absolutely. these are cultural phenomena. and brexit is actually a complicated thing. but that's whatnot we're seeing

reflected in these movements. these are much broader existential questions about identity. what the future of country is. if you look at the people surrounding anna soubry, they are people who have been calling for muslims to be deported, for us to take the land back, coded for removing people of color from england. you have a sense that if you look like me you're not a legitimate british person regardless of your legal status, whether you were born here, whether you're second or third generation. and i think the brexit identity we've become familiar-w brexiteer, remainer, are often a package for a host oof things. that's not necessarily to say brexiteers are necessarily racist. the majority are not. but what's on the brexit side is a sechbs nostalgia for a bygone era when britain was an imperial nation. so people who have a direct relationship with is that imperial history like me whose mother was born in a colony.

that is not an era we look back to with -- >> i've heard it now from the american side as well and other places where there's this social dislocation that it is this nostalgia, even in the climate debate you just had a great climate scientist on this week who was explaining that some of the resistance in various communities across america to climate change is the resistance of solutions that they feel will disrupt their nostalgia, their quality of life, th identity and all the rest. given that, how in this country do you think they'll be able to knit together the fabric, 52% who voted to leave, can be knitted back together. >> seen a massive failure of leadership. i don't dismiss the concerns of people who have bought into this nostalgia because what they are reflecting is a very real sense of decline of being left behind both here in the u.s. and all

the countries facing populism. those are real concerns, legitimate concerns, but what we've seen is political leaders capitalizing on that who don't have the actual solutions but are instead offering a quick fix, by building a wall, by leaving the european union, by deporting people who have the right to be here. and even theresa may has spoken about citizens of nowhere. people who ironically were created by the british empire. many of us have multiple heritages because of britain's expansionist projects. but suggestioning that we are somehow a problem. when we see that kind of rhetoric embraced by leaders what we need our slaerds to be honest about is the solution to our problems whether it's industrial decline, the solutions to these problems are not going to be in any short-term policy answer. that they take long-term planning and difficult conversations and we haven't seen leaders with the courage, frankly, to take that on. i also think it reflects a

structural problem with our democracy. we have leaders elected for four or five periods. they don't have the incentive to take on difficult answers that will affect the generations down the line. one of the things about brexit that is very sad is young people, 75% voted to remain in the uk -- in the eu. they do not have a say and their vote hasn't manifested in the national outcome and it doesn't feel as if their concerns are being addressed either when it comes to eu or these border existential questions. >> so as i said you're a social commentator. you're looking for the debate around the bigger issues. is there going to be a second referendum if so what are the questions, what is the polling on that right now? do you think it's likely? do you think it's unlikely? what do you think will happen if and when theresa may's deal is voted down? >> i think it is becoming extremely likely we'll see a second referendum. i have been speaking to a lost brex itdeers. and you have to remember most people who voefted brexit are

reasonable people who made a vote they thought was in the winn west interest in the country that are now seeing things that were never on the table crashing out because of the deal. we'll have to -- this was not something that was promised during the referendum campaign and people who voted leave now are saying some of them that they want another chance to cast their vote based on the fact that they are now -- the reason people suggest this is a bad idea is that it will somehow unleash the gates of hell if people who feel their voice didn't count the first time around. i wonder if those people know what it's like to be a black woman in britain today. because despite the abuse and hots tilt i and many people i know have faced makes me wonder how much worse it could get. it's already at rock bottom. i have never experienced a climate like this in my lifetime in britain. >> it is really very worrying. afua hirsch, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you, christiane. >> it is indeed an era of extremes all over the place it seems and that's a fact my next guest tells me he is obsessed with trying to figure out. florian henckel von

donnersmarck. he directed "the lives of others," which was a cold war film that won the academy award for best foreign language in 2006. and now he's turning the clock back even further, to his native germany's most tumultuous time, world war ii and its aftermath. this film is called "never look away." and it falls a young german's path to freedom during this upheaval through his art. here's a clip from the trailer. there are many incredible lines like that throughout this film, and germany has submitted for oscar consideration again. and the director walks me

through his breathtaking new epic when he joined me from flornew york. >> florian henckel von done yerkzmark, welcome to the program. >> thank you very much, christiane. >> first of all, that's a heck of a name. does it get mangled a lot? ? it's very rare for someone not to mangle it. so i must say i'm very impressed someone only with a name that's complicated as yours that can -- >> well, there you are. and you know, not to put a finer point on it, but you are flor a exploring a really complicated era in the history of your own country germany. and here you are after "the lives of others" which won the oscar, which won all the major awards all these years later turning back to east germany, let's face it. it is east germany. that one was at the fall of the wall. this one was just about as the wall was going up, right at the end of world war ii and beyond. so what is it about this

history, this moment, this time in your country that so fascinates you? >> i feel that in a way as germans we're in a unique position to tell the story of the 20th century because all the craziness and all the extremes happened in an intensified form in germany. you know, the world was divided into two blocs. germany was divided into two parts. there was even a city within germany that was divided into two parts. it's almost as if we experienced it in an intensified form. and i find that makes for an interesting backdrop for stor s stories. this is about how art maybe can help us overcome political extremism. and i thought it would be interesting to put it into a german background. >> okay. so let us talk about what promoted you or what prompted you to do this. it was, as you say, the discovery, trying to explore the origin of artistic creativity, especially in those

circumstances, in the east germany and that part of your country at the time. and you talked about it was a line in ilya kazan's au autobiography where he talked about his work with geniuses, talking about miller and brando and tennessee williams. he felt that working with them was the scab that formed on the wounds that life had dealt. it's interesting you picked up on that. explain that. >> it's -- yeah. he said, you're right, that somehow their artistic geniuses was the scab that had formed on the wounds of their life. and i think it's a very apt metaphor because if the wound was major then the scab will be very big and then the talent will be particularly strong. and here you have the story in my movie of an artist that was first shaped by the nazis and experienced terrible things under that dictatorship. and then experienced terrible

things under the communist dictatorship and finally comes to the west and will have to use all those terrible experiences to create great art. and i thought it was a way of exploring maybe how we could use the terrible things that happen in all of our lives. hopefully not as terrible as the ones of my protagonist. to overcome the suffering. >> you know, it is an epic film. it's much longer than "the lives of others." it's three hours, just over three hours. but it really is a visual feast. and the score is amazing. and in a way i'm wondering whether you're trying to make up for the horrendous facts of life that were going on right there or not. what caused you to paint this so beautifully, this ugly story? >> yes. that's a really great question. i think that if you look at dark

events, it's so easy to make a dark movie. that's the easiest thing in the world. to make something that's depressing and the audience after watching it wants to buy a timeshare on another planet. that's something that's easy to do. i think the challenge generally in life is to look at the fact that overall life can be considered another tragedy. in most cases it ends in death. we lose everybody we love along the way if we don't die first. but i think that what i see my challenge as a filmmaker, as a storyteller, is to say look, all these terrible things happened, yes, and i'm acknowledging the darkness, but i still think that it's an adventure worth embarking on. and in a certain way art i think is about embracing the suffering, and i think that's why we find art in museums or whenever we see it so

comforting, is because it's a material symbol of the fact someone has overcome suffering. take the great german painter gerhard richter, who inspired a lot of this movie. he made these beautiful paintings of the bombers that he saw as a child that came and destroyed his hometown of dresden and killed all his friends. he decided to turn it into a beautiful painting. i think that's a symbol of great courage. or his aunt who was murdered by the nazis for having been schizophrenic. he makes -- he takes a little snapshot of this aunt holding him as a young child and turns it into the most beautiful painting. i just see that as very inspiring, and that's why i wanted to put into the film. in a way i chose beauty while depicting the darkness. >> and actually, you raise a point that i wanted to actually ask you about because you mention all of that and it is absolutely phenomenal, the way he goes back to his life and superimposes all these pictures

of people he loved, people who were the villains and that is the story and that is his art. but you also have your character say the following -- "never look away. everything that is true is beautiful." but kurt, who we're talking about, never actually reveals the truth. these beautiful paintings we were just talking about, when he's asked point blank in a press conference, when he's now a famous painter, is this about your experience, and here he's had his aunt euthanized by the ss, here he's -- i don't want to give too many spoiler alerts. but he doesn't tell the truth. what are you saying there? >> you know what? that's a -- i really like your question. it's -- i think that an artist has a duty to be honest in his or her art but has absolutely no duty to be honest in the press surrounding it.

so i think you can assume that a lot of the people working in the worst who come on your show are not telling you the truth, are -- >> oh, no. >> yes. i think they may even be telling you the contrary because in a way this is all just to protect themselves from maybe revealing too much about their lives, but their art has to be completely honest and truthful. so in a way it's that thought. if this person really every single time the artist in my film, every single time he was asked about his work, were really to tell the full story, i mean, he'd be -- it would exhaust him. it would deplete him. it would also destroy his creativity probably. he's found a different outlet for his honesty, and that outlet is his art. >> and i just wonder whether you're also telling a cautionary tale for today. >> yes. i believe very much in the individual and in the

individual's quest for truth and in the individual being left alone by the government to go on his own quest. and that's also i think what in part got me in trouble with this film in germany because people felt this is a film that attacks the extreme left and attacks the extreme right, you know, pick a side. i don't believe in that. i do believe in the individual, and i think the ultimate individual is the artist who works through these problems on his own. so in a way this is about an artist. first the nazis tried to -- they recognized his talent, tried to turn him into an artist who serves their cause. then the communists tried to say, you know, you could be a really great socialist realist propaganda painter. and he just againsts in his heart that this is all not right and it's bringing him away from the truth. and then he flees to the west and suddenly he's on his own

completely. no one's telling him what to do and that's also kind of terrifying for him. so he has to look deep within his own soul and has to free himself from everything that he's been shaped to be. i think that's something that we all have to do. we have to take everything that we were molded to be and question it. and see does it fit our -- does it fit our soul, does it fit our quest for truth and to find out who we are. and i think that's the best antidote to extremism. i really believe that. i think that as tools against extremism go art is still one of the most effective ones that we have. art can be a weapon against extremists. >> you mentioned him having to flee to the west and the troubles that he started finding there. so let us play this clip that

we've been given and just show when he and his wife, ellie, decide at that moment. when they decide to leave what was a privileged life now in the communist part of east germany. he was painting for the state. but they decided to get on a train and leave. before the wall went up. so they weren't having to breach the wall and the firing squads and all the rest of it, but they did have to be quite careful. i mean, i just wonder what you think about i guess today's

politics. i mean, what does germany think about brexit, for instance? >> remember, actually, brexit, the decision for brexit happened while we were shooting. and i found it so hard to concentrate just on shooting. in that day we were in berlin. and everybody was truly distraught. but at the same time it's clear that some of the decisions that were also made in germany led to that in part. it became clear that whereas the european union was formed to make sure countries would not go off on their own and do things but that decisions were to be made jointly, one of the clear intentions was that especially germany should not do things completely on its own. you but that it would be short-of a community. i think decisions were made completely alone by germany, and

i think germany certainly bears its share of the blame for that very, very unfortunate political and historical turn of events. >> that is an interesting observation indeed. thank you very much indeed. of course it is awards season. germany has put forth "never look away" as its oscar contender. so we wish you good luck. >> thank you very much, christiane. >> "never look away." a powerful film that paints an intimate portrait of social identity. and we continue on that theme, turning to charm city. it's a documentary that highlights the epidemic of violence, shootings, and murders in baltimore. and it highlights the people who are trying to change that. >> we've got 171 dead black people. that's not a state of emergency? >> this is a dialogue to build

understanding between you all. >> gun violence is a disease, and it should be treated as such. >> so that's a short clip. but our michelle martin sat down with two people who were at the center of charm city, baltimore police officer dominique brown and neighborhood peacekeeper alex long. continuing our ongoing initiative about poverty, jobs, and economic opportunity in america called "chasing the dream." >> major monique brown, alex brown, thank you so much for being with us. you both grew up in baltimore, am i right? >> yes. >> i want to ask each of you what was it like growing up in al ekts, you want to start? >> i really couldn't tell that i had a bad upbringing. until i was older. for me my childhood seemed perfect. >> nice christmas parties and -- >> yeah. and then drugs took effect and things went downhill. >> when you were growing up what was the drug? >> well, for my parents cocaine.

that was the main thing. they did a little bit of weed from time to time, but it was mostly cocaine. and it destroyed my family. me and my sisters ended up in foster care. and from that point on that's when the journey downhill started for me. because not only was things, you know, going down a spiral but i was separated from my family. so i was really starting to figure out who i was and what direction my life was going to take on my own. >> monique, what was it like for you growing up? >> my house was like the party house. weekends the party. drug of choice for us was alcohol. didn't necessarily know some of the things going on were problems until you realized hey, you get a little older and you're like first grade, second grade, third grade, we didn't go

to school because they partied a lot on the weekends. then you started to take notice, this is not right. >> one coping mechanism to another. from marijuana to cocaine to alcohol to crack, ultimately to heroin. and i mixed in methadone which let us do lehadamide which was an overdose. when i had my kids, i pretty much have v. to take them away from this violence. >> what made you want to become a police officer? i take thank you didn't have any police in your family. >> no. and growing up, those tensions were there. they weren't separate or different from some of our dynamic we deal with now. a lot of it was i didn't always feel like there was someone around to always be a help. whether it was home or outside. you know, we come outside and it's like we're just killing each other. i always thought i wanted to do

something lawwise, but even though you feel you're on a journey to do good things, as a young teenage mom you're like i can't go to law school, i have kids. you defeat yourself but then you're like what can i do to be helpful? and i thought someone has to be a change because again the tensions are there. >> alex, i want to play a clip from the film. will you talk about just how early the distrust -- just how early the tensions between police and citizens with take root and why. and i just want to play that clip, and here it is. >> so i go to the store and we're racing back. police see me running and i become a suspect. the description say person had an all black or gray hoodie. i've got on orange and blue, new york knicks jersey, orange and blue boots. orange coat. but it's me because i'm running.

your heart beating fast, so you scared. i said no, my heart's beating fast because i'm running. and i was scared. it's because you just grabbed me for nothing. so there are your answers for your questions. he was like yeah, you're a wiseass, i've got my man. i was charged with armed robbery, kidnapping. you know, i went in a little 15-year-old kid and came out like 260. i was a child with an adult record that did adult time, and i got adult size. >> how do you feel when you see that and when you hear what alex just said? >> it makes me sad.

one of the things we do taking this job is make sure we uphold the constitution. we don't diverge from that. i have a son. my son is 24. i have nephews. i have a brother. i have a lot of family that still lives in the city. it's important. my coming on was hey, we have to get this right. i'm still african-american. i'm not exempt from that. the job is what i do, but that's not who i am. that's one of the things that i have to push. and i've always tried to push to make sure did you see us as being human, we're not separate. and we have circumstances that kind of leads us to do bad things but that don't make us bad people. >> one of the things you said in the piece is you said when you joined the force that that attitude that alex was talking about was so widespread you that even had friends when you told them you were becoming a police officer rodropped you as a frie. >> instantly.

>> when you i first decided i want to join law enforcement, a lot of my friends sid i want talk to you no more. how could you, the way they treat us and they only want to lock us up. i see it things twofolded. most times police don't like police because we have that right to take your freedom away. and on the flip side growing up in the neighborhood in the area that i did it wasn't fun either. >> one of the things trying to plead my case is how will we change anything if we're on the outside? we can throw stones, bricks all day long. we can protest. but until we can feel inside of any avenue, whatever, i strongly believe. with we want to change laws we have to become judges. we need to become council people. we need to be embedded in every single entity we are be counted for. the only way we can bring that change and implement that change we have to be a part of the decision. >> but one of the other things you said is you wanted to help people and that you also said a

lot of people don't see the good that you do, you that feel you that -- have you -- do you feel that you are doing good? >> i pray so. the good isn't always the narrative. right? especially when we're in this uniform. >> alex, when you hear major brown say people don't understand the good that we do, how does that sit with you? >> it's true. i can honestly say that. it's a huge misconception in the black community that police isn't anything. until you actually need a police officer. >> do you think that other people feel the way you feel? because there are some moments in the film when you're not too pleased with the police. and you say words which i cannot say on the tv. even people just riding by you hear them expressing some

unhappiness. right? >> you have to understand -- >> but do you think most people feel the way you feel, like both and, both and, we need them but we hate them? >> they may not say, it but if their mother's shorkts grandmother's raped anything like that, i guarantee they'll call police. someone break into their car they ain't filing an insurance claim. they call the police. a lot of times we put on that facade that we don't -- like i say, keeping that look. but deep down we're a society that's suffering. you know, if you can't turn to the people that's supposed to help you it's a wild, wild west situation. >> i hate to ask but i have to ask, is there something about baltimore? buzz we are speaking now like a fourth candidate for police chief has withdrawn. >> baltimore has been sold off to the highest bidder for about 40 years now.

if not longer. so the residents of baltimore really don't have any type of hope or chances at anything unless you have a trust fund, unless you have somebody that put something aside for you. outside of that pretty much no hope. that's why you see so many youth kind of giving up. the school system don't believe in them. they refuse to put any money into the schools to educate, to renovate, or do anything. so you telling the kids -- you look at what they feed them. most of the kids come home, they get peanut butter and jelly for breakfast. you see these kids like they're enemies. you're treating them like social service clients. and you're telling them, hey, keep your head up, have hope for the future when they know deep down there is no future in the city for a person that look like me. >> one of the things that the film does do, and i hope people get to see it, is that it does

show that people aren't just giving up, that people are every day doing what they can do. >> you could have given up after you went through what you went through. some people would be so angry at being falsely accused and having to, you know, do time for something they didn't do. they'd just be so filled with rage they'd be looking to want to take it out on someone for the evident of their lives. what made it different for you? >> it really didn't. everything you just said i went through those processes myself. for years i was angry at the world because i felt like i was injustly convict fd something that the victim even said i didn't do. the victim even said she'd never seen me before. that made me so enraged. but then i realized at the end of the day i'm playing right into the hands of that quote unquote system.

a lot of times when you get emotional you tend to do things that sabotage yourself. i didn't want that no more. my father was in prison. my mother was in prison. my uncles was in prison. so that was a common theme. my father had all the athletic ability in the world, had scholarship offers and everything. he chose the streets. i seen where that put me and my family. so i realized at the end of the day the only way we'll ever be able to get ourselves out of where we don't want to be is by actually getting ourselves out of those situations. >> one individual that really moved me in this film was mr. c. >> oh, that's my o.g. that's my o.g. i got a lot of respect for mr. c. once again he showed me and

helped open my eyes on the responsibility that one owes his community. >> and he used to be a corrections officer. >> and now the rose street community center. >> you started working there. >> i've been working at rose street community center for 15, 16 years. >> let's just play a short clip and hear what he has to say. >> you can't give up. can't give up. things are going to get better. but you've got something that don't believe that. i cannot fall into that unbelief that things are not going to get better. i can't believe that. i can't believe that brandon is not going to make it to 7. i see brandon as a 70-year-old man. gray hair. might have a cane. you might have a few more pounds on you. but i see you as 70.

i see her at 70 years old. four kids, six grandkids. i see that. when i look at y'all. right? i see y'all in the future. >> hmm. >> you know, believing in that. that was actually the day after my little sister ashley was killed. that was a message to the community but kind of to me personal personally. you know, not to lose focus and like i said get too emotional over this situation. because it will be during those times where i could destroy not only myself but my whole family. >> i'm so sorry about your sister. >> i appreciate that. that's her smiling down. that's why i'm here today. >> can i ask what happened? > unfortunately, she had kind of got into a fight with somebody she considered a friend. somebody that she allowed to

stay in her house and all that. and it, you know, quickly escalated and end up turning into her homicide. >> the friend killed her? >> the friend didn't, but her son did. >> oh. >> he done took her life and he done lost his life. because he was found guilty on all charges. that's two lives lost for absolutely nothing at all. outside of -- and again i say, it being emotional. >> i apologize for asking, but i have to ask. but ever want to retaliate? >> definitely. >> why didn't you? >> because that's once again, like i said earlier, that's that trap that only sends us deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. to me it wasn't worth it. i'm going to find another way. and i found another way to honor

my sister. you know, to make sure her legacy live on and her name live on. >> over the course of time that the film was even being made, 1,000 people were killed in baltimore. i think some people might think that that's the drug war or turf wars or -- >> some of that. but most of it is trauma. the trauma affects us shared. the community may be struck with violence multiple times. law enforcement and first responders as well. we're always coming, we're answering the call to come, to aid. and we're not dealing with that across the board. we're not communicating and we're not telling our kids this is not the way we solve problems. >> there's a councilman in the film who is quoted as saying that this is a public health crisis. do you agree with that?

you both agree with that. >> it absolutely is. in my particular field of work, i work for safe streets. safe streets is originally set up and designed to reduce homicides in communities. so we go out to particular hot spo spots. we're not throughout the city like most people would think. there's four sites in baltimore and we're really in hot spots in the diaz. and what we do is we go into communities and we find guys that's respected in the community on a street level. businesses may say don't give that man a job. but with our field we realized it's going to take that community to heal and fix that community. >> a lot of times when i interview mayors or leaders in cities that are having a crisis like a flood or a hurricane, right? a lot of times we ask them what do you need? what do you need? so i'm going to ask you, what do

you need? >> honestly, me personally, i just need opportunity for my kids. be it educational, the workforce, or whatever. we've got to find ways to give our kids other avenues to succe success. like i say, if that happens, man, the sky's the limit for us. we're way too bright of a group of people. our minds expand way beyond anybody's imagination. that's not a problem. it's just the opportunities that we're given and provided need to change. and i say to me that will really change everything. >> i would say to some degree we have the -- to figure out how do we bring our kids in enough to touch them. i feel like all of us are failing them. most certainly they need

education. and getting them to understand they are these diamonds that we always uncover. so many people give up on us because of the neighborhoods we come from. you came from there, oh, oh. well, what's the story? all of us had one. we need more mentorship. we have a lot of people, great grassroots trying to bring kids on board. it may just be a community thing. where can i find a kid and say hey, listen, how can i help you? >> i think that's a great place to end. alex wong, major monique brown, future chief. thank you so much for talking today. >> thank you. >> thank you for having us. >> and that is it for our program tonight. thank you for watching "amanpour & company" on pbs. and join us again next time. uniworld is a proud sponsor of "amanpour & company."

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steves: salzburg's cathedral, constructed in the early 1600s, was one of the first grand baroque buildings north of the alps. it's sunday morning. the 10:00 mass is famous for its music, and today it's mozart. enter the cathedral, and you're immersed in pure baroque grandeur. ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ since it was built in only about 15 years, the church boasts particularly harmonious art and architecture. in good baroque style, the art is symbolic, cohesive, and theatrical, creating a kind of festival procession that leads to the resurrected christ triumphing high above the altar. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ pacem ♪ music and the visual art complement each other.

the organ loft fills the church with glorious sounds as mozart, 250 years after his birth, is still powering worship with his musical genius. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ pacem ♪

tonight, a showdown over the government shutdown. the stalemate over a border wall continues after president trump addressed the nation this week. also, we'll look at governor gavin newsom's plan to tackle big issues from health care to natural disasters and the challenges he faces. fleeing shanghai, a new book examines the forgotten exodus out of china, a story with similarities to what's happening around the world today. welcome to kqed "newsroom." we begin with tensions over border security. as the partial government shutdown stretches on, this week president trump addressed the nation to make his case for a border wall.