tonight, a shwdown over the government shutdown. the stalemate over a border wall continues after president trump addressed the nation this week.o also, we'llk at governor gavin newsom's plan to tackle big issues from health care to natural disasters and th challenges he faces. fleeing shanghai, a new book examines the forgotten exodus out of china, a story with similarities to what's happening around te world day. welcome to kqed "newsroom." we begin with tensions over border assecurity. he partial government shutdown stretches on, this week president trump addressed the nation to make his case for a border wall.ie

>> this bar is absolutely critical to border security. it's also what our aofessionals the border want and need. this is just common sense. >> the next day he abruptly ended a meeting with house speaker nancy pelosi and senate minority leader chuck schumer ed who refo provide billions in funding for the wall in exchange for ending the government shutdown. president trump threatened to declare a national emergency tor get the milto build the wall. that would likely spark a legal crisis. meanwhile in california, newly sworn-in governor gavin newsome ud a budget totaling $209 billion. among the funding proposals, more than a billion for affordable housing construction, nearly $2 billion for early childhood education and an additional $105 million to fight and prevent wildfires. joining me to discuss this, kqed senior editorfolt ticks and government scott schaffer, "san

rancisco chronicle" political writer joe gary foley and geopolitical consultant john toalsh. great have you here. >> the new budget pro bowsal, what does it tell you? >> lucky for him a $21.4i bi surplus. so nice to have money to play with. he's putting $13 billion into paying down the debt, rainy day fund. he's certainly spending money, buthiocusing on thegs he talked about during the cpaign. childcare, early childhood education, family parental leave, increasing the earned income tax credit for working families. he's really focusing on families, kids, students, maybe a second year of community college for free. that kind of thing. >> joe, there a powerful groups that backed him during his campaign, for example, the californiaes nur union, on issues he campaigned such as universal health carhe how are and other groups he appealed to responding to this

new gebu >> they're very supportive. one of the more surprising things i foundality the budget ullout, it was hard to find a republican to bash him. usually that's the easiest nking. what do you tf the opposing party's plan? oh, that's horible. there's some sort of baseline respect for it because it socked a lot of mon away for a rainy day fund. newsom, it's li he's creating a nation state of california here. the feds won't cover en undocd immigrants? california will. we'll cover furloughed workers,o we'll hav own surgeon 'tneral. if washington ioing to get it done, then california will. because it's flush with money. at's sort of his response to trump, president trump. >> that's number one. umber two, i think people were pleasantly surprised he didn't go all in on aingle payer

health care system now. nk >> i don't te could. how would he pay for it? >> i don't think long-term if you ay for theuff he's done, jerry brown when he was going out the door put a litt over $4 billion into baseline budget spending for increased salaries for state workers. a lot of these issues, they were campaign pledges. it's great when you've got ol billions ofrs to hit those campaign pledges early. depending on how you roll these health care issues out, they are on going budgetary issues that can cost. if y spend one-time money on roads, bridges, et cetera, that's one thing. when the economy does eventually flip, if you have on going snding and if you unionize these workers, then you've got very expensive on going costs. >> governors are tempted to do that all the time.e pwilson reduced class size down to 20 or fewer recession hits and now it's up to 25 or 30. money rd to resist the when it's sitting there and the

legislatuor is willing to go it. >> one of the more controversial aspects of what he's pisoposing e wants to give full access to midical for all undocumented immigrants up t age 26. already there's criticism on that from republicans on national front. >> ok. so some of the health care, you want to go back to the mandate in california. the mandate, you've got 70% of the people who will be paying into thismandate helping to subsidize putting wealthier people onto the state mediccal rolls. we have the highest poverty rates the state. they shouldn't be picking up the tab for people coming from other countries. w this is tcome caravan sign. it sends ana very clear s granted democrats like it and i think he gets good pr loud of

it. the long-term financl costs are significant. >> california is criticized for having very low reimbursement rates for doctors. i was talking to a co-chair of the budget committee yesterday. he said i have constituents who get medical because a lot of doctors won't take those patients. >> newsom is inheriting the delta water tunnels and so high-speed rail. what is he going to do with those, joe? >> on dhigh-sp rail, he said he's reviewing the program, the leaders p. he's tryi figure out, what he says, what it is and what it isn't. i think what it isn't is a full trip from san francisco to los angeles. look for him to sort of focus on what he talked about in the campaign, which is valley to valley. central valley where the cheap housing is to silicon valley where the jobs are. it's going to be a heavy lift. there's very littlesupport. what, 28%, 30% support.

>> r the whole thing. >> for the whole thing. >> he stillas to find funding for it. >> if he does that he's in violation of what it was put on the ballot for and two in violation of what federal matching dollars came from.o he would have go back to the public to accept something along those lines. >> the ballot measure called forgettin money from the private sector or government, none of which has materialized, right? >> let me ask you about something else this week, president trump's tweet about threatening to cu off federal funds for relief for ia califo wildfires. he's accusing the statef poor forest fri how has the governor responded. >> the governor responded the way republicans responded, which is to say it was inappropriate. one of these 3:00 a.m. tweets that fema didn't even know about. the republicans who represent the area in butte county, the

congress member and members of the legislature were very critical. it's nothelpful. it wasn't true. fema didn't know anything about it. the people living there were anxious because they were hearing the disaster funds would be cut off. jority of the forest land in california is managed by the federal government, not the state. y. exac are there things to do with regards to changing policy of management of those lands? sure. should the president of the united states be threatening to cut off funding a at time when people are hurting? i think most people would say r. >> is thisationship with the president different from the relationship with jerry brown and president trump. >> you don't like the president in a political to deal with him because that's where federal dollars come from. i think throughout the first week in office and throughout the campaign,e's gritted his teeth and bared it. >> newsom also has an ex-wife dating the president's son,

donald trump jr. so that a back channel. they do still talk. let's talk about the border wall. you can't talk about presthdent trump t talking about the border wall. he visited the border in texas yesterday. he's not considering diverting disaster relief to help out in the aftermath ofni calif's wildfires to build the wall. shawn, can he doit thatut declaring a national emergency? >> he would have to declare a national emergency. it may be a slick way to get out of this budget impasse, to b honest with you. democrats can say he can't really do it. someone files lawsuit. it gets figured out in the courts. they held the line with regards to the f borderce and they put a budget forward. it could be a slick way out. number one. number two, in california when i was in governor wilson's officed we sp about $5 billion a year on services for people not state.y here in the i assume 25 years later that's more than double. what the state is putting forward and the federal government in costs associated with undocumented immigrants

have to be in excess of $10 billion. spent $5 million to build a wall, and i don't think they can do it that cheaply, if you spent that, you'd get t savings back quickly. from a policy perspectivebl reans and the president are on a good footing to have this argument. what'sd right wrong legally coming here, illegally coming here, but the tw ts ande comments are very difficult for the senate and republicans in the house. >> the politics of this are terrible. he'd be pulling federal money from three of the biggest states in the union, california, florida and texas. one of them is a swing state. one is a red state, one a big blue state. it's not good. there's a tweet that captured the bad politics of this. it said now trump's slogan is we're going tbuild a wall and make people who lost their homes in a naturaler disa pay for it. >> i think there's a make kings for a compromise here. i think the president got into this by cal.ng it a wa

he also said mexico was going to pay for it. i think a lot ofdemocrats including nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are happy to talk about fencing. we supported that in the past. there's already a lot fncing as well as technology, drones. if the give a little bit, they could get there. the problem is, both sides -- 'v >> th kind of both cornered themselves into a wall, right? president trump is tattking, i' g the wall built, no matter what. pelosi, and frankly for the democrats, there's no downside for them, to keep this -- p >> he gotnd left that meeting because he said will you pay for the wall. -- border security is what he i she said no. if they're talking about border security, it's different from talking about the wall. >> the far left democrats are ressing pelosi no wall, wall. remember a year ago, the democrats agreed to the wall, they agreed for $25 billion for the wall. >> if they got relief for the

dreamers. >> but now that's off the table. >> in 2006 we had the secure fence act, spported byelosi and schumer and obama and hillary clinton. some guy is running around collegmp ces giving quotes and they think it's trump and they dump on it. i think actually fix would be to simply say, okay, the secure fence act required second fence. you had a barrier in between. b we've alrealt a big part of the fence. we'll build a second fence. compromise. you can get it done. >> if he does go ahead, president trump, if he does declare this national emergency from a legal standpoint, scott, can he do that? no other present has ever don this, to declare a national emergency, to fund a policy proposal to bypass congress. >> there will be challenges that might stopit. i agree with shawn. b he were to do that, he could tell hise and fox news, i'm

fighting for this. it's going to have to be resolved through the courts. meanwhilelet's move head. >> even if he never gets the border wall built -- >> who is winning in the court ofublic opinion about this is? >> opini firmly against the wall. i think 58% of americans are opposed to tll and two-thirds of independent voters oppose it. when mes down to the wall, that's firmly on thecr des side. >> it's different when you talk about border security generally and dreamers, there's much broader support for that. i ttnk republicans could a win if they would come to a comprehensive deal. > this white house dot articulate issues well. they don't not roll them out well. they don't brief hardly ever. so the bottom line is, from a messaging perspective, you get the president eats tweets. a rose by any other name. so they don layut what a secure border could look like. they don't look out at israel

has done with their double fence and eliminated alortheir tet attacks. there's a way forward, you have to define it differently. >> shawn walsh, joe gary foley and scottschaffer, always good to have you all here. as we just heard, the governor has bold proposals to tackle a host of big and costlyo prls, while the inharns of support, governor newsom needs to fund his priorities such as expanding early childhood education. joining me is asse lyil tinge of san francisco who chairs the assembly budget committee. nice having you here. >> thanks for having me. >> it has to go through your committee and the budget committee on t senate side. >> what he did was fiscally budent. we'en working at socking away reserves for a rainy day.

you've seen him do that as well pensions.wn the bulk of the money is used for one-time expenses that are fiscally responsible. what we're happy to see is a couple areas we weren't able to reach agreement with governor brown which was early education, child care, health care, as well as in the social services area. we're glad to see him make investments in that arena. >> were there other priorities were you hoping to see included but were left out? >> i think the one area which be dealing with in may is around wildfires. there's a little bit of money in wildfires. really we need to come up with a much larger proposal on how to fix thisl systemic pr we're dealing with every summer, it feels like. >> the governor is also proposing a one-time expenditure of more than a billion dollars for proposals for projects that spur affordable usg. you represent san francisco, one of the most expensive housing markets in the is there other relief you think the legislature can do other

hathan what the governor proposed to help the middle class buy or rent a home? >> absolutely. if you look at many of the legislations that we're doing right now, have a piece of legislation i reintroduced to streamline the building of accessory dwelling units, otherwise known as inlaw units, granny unit one of the fastest ways we can whereusing on the streets people build in their back yard or in san francisco they billed out their first floor. we have cities, especially subu cities that are fighting that kind of development. we need them to stop. i've been working with senator wiener on getting affordable, more hsing built near transit stops. that makes a lot of sense. we'll see the legislature continue to push very hard on cities to build more using. >> i have to interrupt you. there's opposition to the weiner bill you just mentioned, those who don't want it legislated, they have to have a certain type of project or mber of units in their cities.

even though the democrats have a supermajority in t legislature, they are still democrats from different types of communit s. hch tension is there on an issue like housing? >> it's absolutel a huge amount of tension. the previous proposal that senator weitrer uced that i co-authored was unanimously opposed by the los angeles city council which is not a suburb. the l.a. city council opposed it. the more jobsou create, people have to live somewhere. we're getting to the point where we don't have nuf housing to aktch the jobs we're creating. >> sg of tensions not only in housing, but other priorities as well, you have california lawmakers who have lots of things on their list. iou introduced a bill this week that would re businesses to give lech tronelectronic receip paper ones, unle theustomer requests a printed one.

with all those priorities and special projects, lawmakers have introduced bills that would require spending more than what the surplus is already in this new legislative session. ow much tension do you think there will be between the governor and the lawmakers? >> i think there's a l of agreement. a democratic simple majority, democratic governor. the top le issues in terms of health care, fighting for immigrants, education, early education, you have wide agreement. the devil is always in the details. every legislator wants to make their mark. many of the bills are aspirational bills. those are items where we discuss fr a legislative point of view in committee and also talk about them in ant budgetary pof view. at the end of the day, you have abuet and so much money and you have to spend within your means. we have bills that are aspirational th aren't just about this year, maybe sometime in the future. but we alset have a bud we have to pass by june 15th. let's talk about governor newsom and his governingstyle.

you have known him for a long time. when he was the mayor of san frncisco, he appointed you 14 years ago to be the city's assessor recorder. what do you think are his greatest strengths? >> his greatest strength is, ow people don't he's a policy work. he's been waiting eight yrs to unveil his first budget. he was really excited. that's one of the things i uickly learned when i got to know him. >> such a policy wonk that he can often be aloof is what we've heard. >> absolutly. that's w was going to say is the biggest change. i've noticed over the past uple years, he gone out of his way to meet with many of my colagues in the assembly and the senate and build those relationships. that is one of his raps in san francisco, he didn't have a strong rationship with the board of supervisors. in sacramento it's different. he's w reallyked to build that

relationship. we unveiled the budget blueprint and much of it was put into his proposal in january. you can see he's listening. >> what would you say are his greatest weaknesses? >> that's what i just mentioned. the critique was that he dn't have a great relationship with the board of the boarsupervisors. >> anything else? >> i think that is the biggest issue. people said he didn't have the beationships with folks. i think he's learned over the last eight years and tried to do that muchbetter. >> he's working on that. meantime, you have a lot of work to get toeton the budecause there will be hearings and the legislature has until mid june to approve it. phil teen, assemblymanan from francisco, thank you. >> thanks for having me. a forgotten chinese exodus brought to life by helen zia, ai long activist on human rights and lgbtis es, also former executive editor of miss

magazine. "last boat of shanghai" is about the massive migration of chinese. she joins me now in the studio. good to have you here, helen. >> thanks for ving me here, twee. >> your book is around four compiles, those wholed the communist revolution. back in 1949, what was the scent like when people's liberation army marched into shanghai? >> this is a t generatit lived through starting world war ii, the occupation by japan. it had bee a very brutal time, the collapse of the old regime. so this was a society in chaos and had been for a very long time. so when it was ve clear tha the red army of chairmanao is going to be marching into shanghai, really all hell broke loose. it had been building forme s time because it was clear that

this society was going to e. colla >> shanghai was viewed as a capitalist, a lot of the more elite chinese lived there and a they feared persecution. >> many did. it was a city like new york necity. it wasof the top five cities and population in the whole world. it was china's largest and most cosmopolitan. >> so at the time the red army was apperaching, people so afraid that they were holding on to the of trains and climbing on the roofs, going packed like sarnes or on boats that were so heavy they were sinking. panic had broken loose. that's why i called it the last boatut of shanghai because everybody who fled thought they were on theery last boat, the very last train or last plane. ea>> you spent 12 working on this book, did more than 100 . intervie why was it so important for you to tell this story?

>> well, for me it was a story --up i grew with a family. w mother had been part of this. all i kout her life at this time was that she was on the lst boat. when i would ask her about that as a child, she would always say that was wartime, it was a bad memory. i on't want to talk abou. it wasn't until i was -- until r she was in 70s that finally i said one day, mom, it's not too bad you don't remember anything. shsaid,no, i remember everything. if you want to know, i'll tell that was when her story became very clear to me. then i beg to realize that every family who leftat this time said that they were on the last boat. friends of mine would say, oh, yeah, my factor was on the last boat. i realized that, likeme, nobody had heard this story and it wasn't that long ago that it happened. it's a whole different slice of asian america, of the chinese

america >> your book is coming out at a time when we're hearing a lot about th exodus of refugees from different parts of the world. what are the simarities that you see between what you've written about and what we're hearing andng se today? >> oh, the similarities, the arallels and the lessons to learn are huge. and that's the point of telling these stories a learning from history. first of all, one of the things that gets said about refugees of any time i they're pouring into our borders. it's just -- they've decided on a lark to come here, like the thousands of refugees who walked a thousand miles. but, infact, the refugees out of shanghai, they spent years debating should i leave, should i stay, how would we live, but how can we say? what if we die leaving?if what we die staying? this was a daily debate in

shanghaior so many families every day. i think that's what these refugees and migrants today, every one of them, befor decide to get on a rubber raft to leave africa or to march a thousand miles, that's what they decide. >> what happens after they arrive in their new country? you make the poi that the refugees are often the kinds of people you want in a country. >> absolutely. that's one of the big lies t's being said about these migrants and refugees that are trying to get in here. these areople who are risking everything for the possibility of living free, ei that children can live free and survive childhood. so these are the kind of people who were -- many were pillars of theircommunities, and that's why they are most at risk staying where th are. so these are the kind of people who will be the most contributing ople to our society.

and we should welcome them.al > a long-time activist on women's issues, the former executive editor ms. magazine founded by gloia stein them. i want to ask you about the me too movement. some men sayin they're afraid to mentor women or afraid to be one withiness meeting a them. what do you make of all that? >> right now w're in a society where people are told to be afraid of everything, to be afraid of me women, immigrants, our neighbors, anybody who is different we should be afrid when, in fact, we should be trying to value each other. we should be talking about decency. we should move the dial to say what can we value in each other that makes us all grow together, like a movementn oakland's chinatown is happening right now of immigrants saying we are one nation, aapi.

>> isl>>der. instead of demonizing each other, let's see the humanityn ch other and what we can bring together as one nation stronger. >> all right. helen, a pleasure to have you here. you book, "last boat out of hang high" comes out january 22nd. thank you. >> thank you twee. >> that will do it for us. as always, you n find mor of our coverage at kqed.org/newsroom. than, for joining us.

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