tv Washington Week PBS January 18, 2019 7:30pm-8:00pm PST
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robert: the white house denies a report thathe president urged his lawyer to lie. but russi pile up.questions i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." ♪ >> this is "washington week."g fundins provided by -- >> i was able to turn the aircraft around and the mission arou was able to save two men's lives that night. >> my first job helped me to grow up pretty quickly. >> in 2001 i signed up for the air force. two days later, 911 happened -- 9/11 happened. >> babel , a language program
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that teacheseeg-life conversations in a new language, such aspanish, french, german, italian and more. babe 's 10 to 15-minute lessons are available as an a or online. more information at babel.com. >> funding isd provi koo ue and patricia, through yuen foundation. the corporation for public oadcasting and by contributions to your pbsio statn from viewers like you. thank you. once again, from washington, morator robert costa. robert: good evening. no overnment shutdown has end in sight and the chance are only mounting for the trump administration. the latest is a buzzfeed ns report that claims president trump directed his former personal attorney t lie to congress. about plans to build a trump tower i moscow.
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on friday, buzzfeed poste an update that "a spokesperson for the special counsel is now disputing thatuzzfeed news reports." the white house also called it falls and i are dick allows. michael cohen has admitted to lying to the f.b.i. in -- and congress and has been cooperating with special counsel robert mueller. he's also preparing to testify before congress next month, just weeks before beginning ath e-year prison sentence. that report comes less than a week after michael schmidt and hist colleaguese "new york times" broke the story that the f.b.i. halached a counter intelligence investigation into president frump after he fired f.b.i. director james comey. joining me tonight is michaelnin my o, a pulitzer prize-winning washington f corresponden the times. kelly o'donnell, white house correspondent for nbc news. laura jarrett, justice department correspondent for cnn and jake sherman, senior write
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at politico and co-editor of "plaewook." many organizations are still work only this story but it raises questions about whether president trump obstructed justice. michael, it' a difficult story. the special counsel was coming out tonight breaking news saying it's not accurate. when you look at this story as a veteran investigative reporter, what matters here? michael: first of all, for these reporters,ehis is worst nightmare, to have someone like the special counsel, who never talks, comingout and saying this isn'tth correct. reason why in story mattered somple is balls the obstruction case against the president is very difficult. obecause a l the decisions he made are intertwined with executive power. this was him telling someone to lie. that's a much leaner --er clean obstruction case. doesn't have the right to do that. he did have the right to fir f
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hi.i. director. so that's why within minutes or hours of that story coming out last night, you saw the house democrats and even some of the senate talking about impeachment. they knew it was a clean case and now it looks like it doesn't exist. robert: what's the key issue to you with the trump tower prospect with regardo e special counsel flfings? michael: the whole issue is could the trump tower issue start to explain a lot of eh trump'sior on the campaign? is that truly why he wanted to embrac rsia? he just wanted to build a tower there. he never thought he would win and that's why -- that the who will thing, the mystery of trump. you have to remember, the before him andida ran as russia is our greatest threat and he ran assi r is our best friend and we've never understood the intelligence intellectual underpinnings of that and maybe the tower provides an information.
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robert: laura, what's the legal peril facing the president at this moment? laura: in the beginning when everody was trying to vet and it trying to figure out if true and if anyone could corroborate it, thessue was, as mike pointed out, this is felon serious, the president canno obstruct jumps but sur borningp ury. everyone recognized that but no one corroborated it no. one matched it. none of our outlets, at least they saw, cou provide anything to starkte and it part of it, the backbone that left anyone thinking is it there? the in information that the special counsel has -- had evidence. but no one saw that and at least one of the reporter said they
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hadn't steen it. so it lift with us a lot of questions tod that ultimately the special counsel are saying are not true. robert: the white house jumped on in, defying -- defiant. also rudy giulian what was it like at the west wing? >> it was sbevens andater than we expected. the initial response was a reheated anti-cohen message, don't believe him, therefor anything else doesn't hold. it was strike that it took so long for them to address the underlying issue, did the president instruct anyone to lie to congress? and now they have refuted that. now with in special counselg puttout a statement that says the reporting is not accurate, this is diffi lt for every reporter in washington. this is not a good day for media an it will be a gift to the president to revert to fake news and some of his claims and i
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would expect they will trumpet that. if t are areects of the story that are strew -- true, that could easily be lostn the fact that it is so rare for the special counsel's team to comment. it's a very challenging day. there's also thist concern t i think there are many people who are anxious that there w al be big smoking-gun moment, when will that come? and this reporting with the supporting documentation, could it have been there? going beneath the words of michael cohen, could there be digital fingerprints on this that would point at the president and those close to him? now we really don't know so the volleyed gets filled w lh of conversation, talk, and speculation and now we don't really know where we are. robert: so q a lot ofstions about this buzzfeed story but the questions about the president and obstruction are
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not going away. they came up this week at t nominations for attorney general william barr. here's a conversation with the senator from minnesota. >> in your memo, you talked about the comby decision and obstruction of jumps. you wrote on page one that a president purpo sueding a ersonal to comment perjury would be obstruction is that right? >> yes. ll, any person who per swaileds another to -- >> ok. you also s ad that president or any person convincing a witness to change testimony would be obstruction is that right? >> yes. robert: jake, the barr nomination. what did you make of the hearing this week? >> i think he surprised a few people. i think he was much me forceful in defending the mueller probe than some would expect and i think he's going to probably sail to confirmation
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and senate republica have bigger numbers and along with bigger numbers,onrmations go a lot easier but i do think that people were caught a off guard that is an important thing to keep in mind here as t vote ge closer to the floor. robert: when you talk about the barr hearings. kelly was talking abouthe digital fingerprints, the evidence we're all looking for. that could come in th mueller report. what did we learn about that muellereport from barr? >> the conventional wisdom in washington was that there was going to be a report. mueller will give his report to congress. well, we sort of knew about thatif you had studied the regulations but the public got a lesson on that this week as barr tried to answer questions about this. i muelle supposed to send a report to the attorney general and then the attorney general can decide whatonoes toess
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but the attorney general can be very limited in w dt they cano because of the way evidence comes in, whether it's assified and the democrats on the him want this would commitment, they wanted barr to say yes, i'll give you theun dacted exeel to do whatever you want with. and barr is saying look, i don't know mueller has arranged witna the per oversaying the justice department. i can't make those commitments to you and i think you'll see some verysenior democrats use that as a deny execution not to vote for barr. robert: are democrats talking about impeachment more? >> ye , they d i don't see a scenario in which they could avoid impeachment one way other the other over the next couple s of y so far speaker pelosi has said mpeachment needs to be bipartisan, needs to come from
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members of both parties. sas's antagonized more and more by president trump, her patience night grow thin. i actually thinkm f a congressional point of view, impeachments one of the least damaging -- it's very damaging butro investigationsthe oversight and government reform committee, the judiciary committee, the intelligence committee,hose are incredibly gaging to the president -- damaging to the president to -- too and those will go on and take months on end. robert: the "washington post" oke the story, the president has gone to great lengths to conceal details of his conversationsh w russian president vladimir putin, including con vis indicating the notes of his own interpreters. greg miller reported there is no record of president trump's face-to-face meetings with thia
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ru leader at five locations over the past two years. laura, what are the questions inside of the intelligence community and department of justice about the president's role with russia, with leo: why? why are you con -- laura: why are you concealing these communications. kell ynn connie -- conway, his senior advisor has sai leaks were a real issue at the time. that raises the question, you don't have anyone close to that has a clasped intelligence briefing that you trust toiv re these communications? that's a real problem and i think it raisutes questions a what exactly is going on there and why. we'll wait to see what more comes out of that but other reporting from the "new york sttimes" and others sughat mueller is interested in nose meetings with putin and so there's more there. kelly: inning what is hard to sometimes put into decades o convention and this is a president who likes to use the
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force of his personality and relationships to deal with these world leaders and he seems to find it a new sans to deal with some -- nuisance to deal with some of th rules. which would be a value to his nt state departn the right setting, -- to other parts of the government. he seems to view it as the one-on-one of two presidents and not see that there's a real need and a history for smaring that information more broadly. there were lehaaks were a concern and this does raise always s because it seems to come back to russia. the president would say if i have neatings with other worlds meetings, no one seems to be that interested but when it's putin, people zero in on it. if he could embrace the fact that there's a purpose f those kinds of reports andriing of his own senior officials,
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programs that would tamp down some of the speculation that swirling around him. robert: laura's point about the sbefpblet matters so much. is he breaking the enormous or is therels something at play? >> the president combains -- plains a lot on russia but he continues to do things that aise questions through his own actions. this thing a.m. the end of last year where he's talking about w the ussr went into afghanistan and why they went into afghanistan, a very narrow issue in terms of world histor. lining up directly with the kremlin on such ahing. the president is not a student of history and going forward with tt. his behavior in helsinki and we coule citll these other things. he continues to do this to himself. you inherited this counter
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intellence investigation looking into the president's ties to russia, you still have anymore office doing things, like the greg miller report in the post, destroying or takinnt the docus away. if you're mueller do you just say ok, i'm going to clo up shop and say there's no problem here if he continues t do that? robert: the attorney general normnoalee -al knee, bill barr, has said he's going to allow muller to continue only. cnn reported they're pretty close friends and that surprised the president>>. hich is bizarre because barr was pretty straightforward with the president out how he knew bill mueller. you see ethat in that 19-page missive and also his opening statement. previews this idea of its need for the country and an airing that everything that hammed is sort of required here, given how big the stakes a
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apparently during the hearing, the president is bristling at the fac tt he's so glowing about bob mueller. again,e was mueller's boss when he was leading the criminal justice deptment. w he didn't know these two men didn't know each other is mystifying. he did not like the optics of the um yinks. >> the thing about barr's testimony and what he was is that we know a lot of what donald trump wants in an attorney general. he wants someone who's loyal to him more than anying else. puts his priorities first, is sort of a personal lawyer to pm. if you're thesident and that's your view and you saw barr testifying, you have to say where's the guy from theth memo i was sold on? bill barr came across as a man of justice. spent all this time in the justice department. says i'm d going too the right thing. the president had to say that's not what i wanted. robert: but he signaled in the
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memo to the "new york times," ll barr that he in recent years had some conservative views, trump-friendly julls. -- views. >> a very paper statement heus gave t about how uranium one was much more of an issue than collusion or cob -- obstruction at was being looked at. that's not the person you saw testifying.he other d kelly: the -- president thoughtu shad me at uranium one. robert: the senat don't have to deal with the rush i-questions. there's also the partial government shuown that soon enters week five and the dramatic developments in the battle between the president and congressional democrats. first, speaker pelosi asked the president to postpone thetate of the union because of security issues. 24 hours later, he denialed the question for pelosi and others to visit afghanistan and nato
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leaders in europe. speaker pelosi said she was l untild to fly commerc she alleged the perspective leaked her planned trip. >> we weren't going to go because we had a report from afghanistan tt the president outing our terrorism had made the scene on the ground much more dangerous. robert: there's the shutdown and then there's the relationship that's dominating washington. speaker pelosi, president trump. sit totally a stalemate? >> the president is getting used to, getting accustomed to fact that congress is not on his side, that the house is not on his side. he's had a congress for two years that's mostly bowedo all of h desires and wishes, although sometimes dragged kicking and i think that -- listen, let's lay this out. the president can w dot he did. he can say that pelosi cannot use military transport. the speakeras enormous sway over all of the president's priorities.si pes an appropriator,
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somebody who understands the congressional budget process and how to use it to maximum impact tarve the president of any achievements going into the 202. electi those are facts. the other fact is that the two sides are not speaking at the moment. robert: didn't vice president pence go to the capitol on thursd? >> he went to speak to mitch mcconnell. they're in the same party. democrats control the house. there are not talks the moment. not the -- the presidentgo is g to come out and make a statement tomorrow afternoon abou the shutdown, he says, in which he's expected to lay out some patheways to getting this solved. robert: what does that mean? >> i don't know and i'm not sure he knows because he's been so vastly misguided by his ades, it's scary andery bad for the president that he's been misled to believe things tt if you
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had even elementary knowledge of politics, you wou know the reven president does not have more leverage when a democratic house took over. he's a political notice and we know it. roicht wha are you hearing about the saturdays announcement? kelly: i don't expecto hear i would be a national emergency. because i thiny the traject of opinions going to the president and the circumstances politicaovy have beeng away from them because he recognizes if it gets tied new a court battle, it creates a of the presidency that could be use leds by future presidents in ways they don want and it doesn't really solve the problem. also, aprohm rators in the republican sides don't want to see money pulled away from flingseslreadynated. at least from the officials i've talked to i have notte g any sort of a flicker that the national emergency is likely for this saturday announcement. having said that, they
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absolutely say the president has that power,tetains t power, thinks about that power. is there a way to jolt democrats to negotiate?de crats have not wanted to sit across the table from the the president hasn't wanted to hear what they have to say. it's really beenold. robert: we'll see if nod rat republicans in the senate are going to crack. like senate lamar zeand alexander, senator porterf ohio. could they push mcconnell? kellgo they're morrn nabs times of republicans and people up for re-election in 2020. they would love to see some action but they don't have sway over the house democrats. so it's not two sides but a myriad of sides. mitchell mcconnell can see where this isn't going ands he pl his game behind -- and i meanwhile that in the legislative way, not in a
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pejorative way, behind the curtain. he doesn't cave the at the moment he knows there's a deal to be had, he will be present. right now can the president offer something to the democrats that would get them togo ate? robert: would it be challenged in the federal courts if the president leaned in that direction? >> i think it wouldt least get challenged. how a court rules on it is up in the air but it is almost sermon -- immediately democrats will hop on that. t butnk the larger points is, in washington we focus on who's up ad who's down politically. there are hundreds of thousands of federal workers who aren't getting paid. robert: even d.o.j. is issues, correct? >> even the f.b.i. is facing a situation where workers are resorting to food banks. robert: the f.b.i has food banks? >> in certain districts there are food bankseing set up for
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f.b.i. members, who are making $35,000 a year and don't know when a pay check is coming. that is a national security issue. is other issue is they're also asking for d.o.j. for opinions about outsidet. employm they're getting to a point where they don't know howong this is going to go on and certain either i said rules d.o.j. has to sign off on outside employment. robert: what about the muellere is does it continue even with the shutdown? >> yeah, but i think the issue is what it's done for the favorability numbers for the president and the fact we saw the unfavorability numbers be higher in terms of non-college-educated white males and that's the president's base. that is so crucial to him. robert: there's a poll that shows his populity dipping below 40%. >> the mote around hisen
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pres is the support of his base and if he were to lose that, if there's momentum against him in the house on impeachment, it couldim into a lot of troubleable? is this shutdown rely hurting him politically? robert: what blakse breaks it open? >> i don't know but i spoke to a senior spokes person who said if you look at the polling, no one is blami us yet. veryone is blaming republicans and the president. the deal is clear. ome daca protections for a wall. it's the same deep that congress has punted on for the last two years, very clear. robert: we'll have to leave it there. kelly, we're going to get to you on the webcast. our conversation willon continu that "washington week" podcast. find it on your favite a.m.r watch it on your website.
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i'm robert -- robert costa. have a great weekend and thanks for joining us. ♪ >> corporate funding is provided by -- >> i was able to turn the aircraft around and the mission around and was able to save two men's lives that night. >> my first job helpe me to grow up pretty quickly. >> in 2001 i signed up for the air force. two days later, 9/11 happened.
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>> babel, a language program that teaches real life conversations in ane w language, such as spanish, french, german, italian and more. babe 's 10 tomi 1te lessons are available as an app or online. more infortion on babel.com. >> funding is provided by -- koo and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corration for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. inaptioning performed by the national captioninitute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> you're watching pbs.
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