captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff.sh on the nr tonight, a boeing 737 crashes in ethiopia. it's the second in under a year for the jecoiner, raising erns over the safety of the airplane. sen, president trump unve his 2020 budget, including an additional $8.6 billion for a southern bder wall. we talk with mr. trump's top economic advisor. plus, we are on the ound at the u.s. southern bowith a report on the conditions that migrants face and the strained resources oforder patrol. >> we can't arrest our way out of the problem. that's not going to solve the problem. and this is not a border patrol solve. this is, this comes from legislation, updatedaws. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

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>> woodruf of an african air disaster have reached around the globe tonight. e ethiopian airlines crash on sunday killed all 157 people on board. now, several countries and aai number oines have grounded their models of the boeing 737 max-8.in neil connery opendent television news reports from ethiopia's capital, addis ababa. >> reporter: scattered across the field, the sorry wckage of a plane that was the pride of its fleet and the heartbreaking reminders of 157 people entrusted to its care. there are clothes. pieces of the cabin's inrior. even a book marked with notes for a conference that was never reached. the emergency teams are digging down because part of the fuselage is buried in the earth. from the air it's clear there is

a huge crater. possibly an indication that the plane came down almost vertically and at great speed. st a fewan aircraft months old, should fail soly catastrophicust minutes after leaving addis ababa is a question the aviation world needs answering. what remains of flight e-ttr02 liesn over a wide area. six minutes after taking off, the boeing 737 max 8 aircraft ll from the skies above. investigators are now trying toa piece togetherly what happened. the safety of this particular aircft is now under intense scrutiny. last october, a similar passenger ple operated by lion air crashed off the coast of indonesia. many of those on board yesterday's ethiopian airlines flig, had been u.n. officials

environmentalists, and charity workers heading for a conference in kenya. today at that conference, delegates observed a minute's silence fotheir colleagues who never arrived to join them. ethiopian airlines' staff also held a vigil remember their lost crew. >> woodruff: investigators in ethiopia did find the plane's two black box recorders today. there are now many questions s ing asked about the engineering of tane and its software. our miles o'brien, who watchesav thtion business, joins us from boston. miles, hello. so from what we know about this airplane and what we know abist not only trash but the one of a very similar model, the same model that occurred last october, wha what does it pointo in terms of pose causes? >> well, you have to be rsrefulle connecting the dots this early, of co judy, but a modern airliner such as the

737 max 8 doesn't fall from out of the sky. you've had two of these aircraft doing exactly that in the same phase of flight the las months. that raises alarm bells. until the black bonxesd the flightdata recorder are analyzed, we can't say for certain. in the meantime, there's a prudent response to ground the aircraft until it is known one way tore the other if there's an endemic flaw in the design. >> woodruff: we knw boeing changed the design to a degree when they designed thiaxs 8. what was changed? >> the key was they wanted to make it longer range and more fuel efficient.a so it nt putting a bigger engine on it, heavier and wider in diameter. so to fit under the wings and have ground clearance, they had to move the engine up and

forward. what that did was every timthe aircraft in particular was in full thrust scenario which would be the case takeoff, it tended to make the nose point a little higher and faster thapin 73ts were used to. so instead of redesigning the wing and increeiing the ht of the landing gear as you might expect, what boeing did was change the computer, which is in trols andhe flight con the human and the controls themselves, and put in some ftware which detected this nose-high attitude, and the computer commands the aircraft to go down if the pilot gets it too high. if it goes too high, the plane will fall out of the sky. that was the intent. but the theory many are worried about here isomehow that softwares either overreacting or the sensorsga themselvee baddata to the computer. >> woodruff: and is there an issue, potentially, miles, with regard to the training ofilots to fly this aircraft?

>> reporter: well, pilots were not fully briefed on this system, did n know exactly what was going on in the computers. this is where you get i kinds of discussions about where the line is drawn between human control and automation in kinds of complex systems. so now they know, and te f.a.a. has issued an airworthiness c directive the after the last crash, the lion air crash in november, which mandates the look at the computer software, sensors and additionaining so pilots can understand how to disconnect the sys now, any pilot flying this aircraft would have known about e lion air crash and known how to disconnect the system. the qestion, is in a situation where you are nose down very quicy and going very fast toward the ground at relatively low altitude, is there enough time. >> woodruff: so as you pointed out, miles, the f.a.a. is saying these planes are airworthy and,

yet, flight attendants assoations are saying tir attendant are trying to ask questions perhapto say they won't fly these airlines. how significant is that? >> i think it's reasonable to ask the questions, as should passengers. the f.a.a. just this arch issued something i never heard of before, continued airworthiness notification. that is not an official legal document. it's more on the order of a memo to the world saying here's what we did in november. we introduced this air worthiness directive, we gave the airlines until april to do this, to figure out theroblem and fix it. in the meantime, we' just going to wait and watch. i think all the options remain on the tab but they're watching closely to see what the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorders hold in store for thems >> woodruff:ou are saying, a number of questions, very much top of mind. miles o'brien, thank you very much. >> you're welcome, judy.

>> woodruff: in the day's other news, u.s.-backed forces atvanced slowly against the last pocket of islamic territory in eastern syria. rocket fire and air assault continued into the night on baghouz. some 500 i.s. fighters are u believed holthere, along with several thousand women and children. an iranian court has rdly issued a verdict in the case of a detained american, michael white. an iranian news agency says a verdict has beene ssued. but th no word on what it is, or even what the charges are. is a u.s. navy veteran, arrested in iran last july. in all, five americans are being held there. in malaysia, a court releasewh siti aisyah had been accused of killing the half- brother of nor korean leader kim jong un. she flew home to indonesia, and was reunited wr parents after prosecutors dropped the murder charge. her lawyer said they gave no reason. >> siti aiysah has been

discharged from the court today. and we are graful that the public prosecutor has in fact come to this conclusion because we still truly believe that she is merely a scapegoat and she is innocent. >> woodruff: a second defendant remains on tal, accused of using a nerve agent to kill kim jong nam, in 2017. rte defense says the two women thought they were f a prank that was actually organized by north korean intelligence. the longtime president of algeria has announced he will not seek a fifth term, in the face of widespread protests. abdel-aziz bouteflika had initially said he would run again. at prompted widespread demonstrations in rece weeks,wd as cs demanded he give up power after 20 years in office. today's announcement delays the april election, and calls for a special body to write a new constitution. schools and businesses across venezuela were forced to close again today, as much of the

country remained blacked out. a power station explosion in caracas added to the misery for people who have been living without electrical power since thursday. >> ( translated ): friday, saturday and sunday was horrible. i was going crazy wi no water, electricity. for god's sake, how long are we going to continue like thi the government does not want to accept that it's their fault because they he to carry out maintenance and for years, they have not done this. >> woodruff: the opposition and the venezuelan government have british prime minister theresa may traveled to strasbourg, france tonight, in a bid to salvage her brexit plan. she is hoping for concessions from the european union before the house of commons votes on a plan it rejected once alread the vote is tomorrow. the scheduled date for brexit is march 29th. back in this country, democrats

announced milwaukee ost their presidential nominating convention next year. the city won out over houston and s ami. republicve already picked charlotte, north carolina for their 2020 convention. and, on wall street, a techra lly pushed the broader market higher.in the dow jonestrial average gained 177 points to close at 25,650. the nasdaq rose 136 points, and the s&p 500 added 34. still come on the newshour: t esident trump's top economic advisor on the latite house budget. an on-the-groundeport from the u.s. southern border. 20 break down the weekend' democratic campaign activity. a conversation with author marlon james on his new novel, "black leopard, red wolf," and much more.

>> woodruff: the white house today released president trump's budget for 2020. the record $4.7 trillion plan calls for increased military spending, and big cuts to domestic programs. it also includes an additional $8.6 billion for the president's controversial border wall. t n to the president's chief economic advisor, larry kudlow. larry kudlow, welcome to the "newshour". it's good to see you. >> thank you, judy.o >> woodruff:the president is asking congress to approve the largest budget ever, as we there will. does it achieve balance for another 15 or so years? trillion-dollar deficits for the rest of his term, and, yet, hein ran promto get rid of the deficits. he's going in the oppose rection. >> well, i think, actually, if you look at those numbers as a share of g.d.p., is the real burden, spending and borrowing comes down evry year. deficits from a peak of about 5% this year, and then it will go down a steady glide path in the

out years, and i think the key points are very simple. number one, this is an economic growth budget. we maintain our tax rate reduction, our rollback of regulations and red tape, our opening of energy and our tade reforms. the growth in 2018 came in at 3.1%. that was our view. we think there are more r mor 3%ers out there. that's probably the best way to get the budget down. we'll to to limit spending. the president will be tou on spending programs, roughly about a 5% reduction thisear. >> woodruff: i want to ask you about a spending cuts in a minute. as you know, respected independent folks, the referendum reserve isct prosg 20%, sliding -- ward. the congressional budgetoffice is protecting under 2%. the senator for responsible dget are saying your both projections are unrealistickic

based on accounting gimmicks and fantasy assumptions. how do you prove thm wrong? >> the proof will be inhe eating. everybody disagreed with us in 018, said we couldn't get 3% economic growth after tax cut ps wessed, and we did. again, the view here is we are promoting incentives in the economy. we have had tremendouesincre in business investment. we've also had 100% expensing for new equipment. that has spurred business investment. there's money coming in offshore, we're the hottest e onomy in the world. the president's trlicies i think are contributing to confidence. we're on the verge of what i hope will be an historic deal with china. perhaps we'll talk about that. in other words, have doubted our suxply side ta cuts. we've won round one. i'm going roll the dice again and take the over and suggest that we will be right again this year, and many of our crtics will not be. >> woodruff: well, you are

hanging a lot on the tax cuts, but we now have a number ofwh expertare watching the tax receipt numbers that come in reylarly and they are saing they do not add up to what is anything like the kind of growth that the administr had projected on these taxes. >> actually, overall re are up about 10%, so that's a pretle good number. me say, one of the people who are skeptical of us, the congressional budget office, nonetheless, their estimates before taxes and most recently after the taxesthey he ghlyed and said there's rou $7 trillion of higher nominal g.d.p. and, from that, comes about 1.2 trillion inxtra revenues, so that the tax tuts are about 80% paid for overall, that includes the individuals. the corporate tax cuts are completely paid for. so we're already seeing the results here. and, again, what matters, you know, we've had record blue-dollar employment, raises

are rising from the latest reports, 3.4%, the unemployment rate is all the way down to 3.8%. across the board, low unemployment. women, i'm proud of this because we've made efforts, 65-some-odd% of the new jobs crated in thev last year he come from women, so i think we are striking everywhere and we are succeeding. >> woodruff: let me ask you, there are other views, butto let me comhe larger picture here on spending cuts, increasing spending in defense, cutting part of the mujts budgea th non-defense, so-called discretionary, much of it mestic. there's been kind after a deal between the two political parties in this last decade of this partisan era, for every dollar of spendingn defense, there will be an equal movement in defense. you have a 5% increase in defense and a huge cut on the

rest of the budget. how do you explain that? well, i think it's a question of priorities, and i think we would like to break this nexus where everybody gets more spending. on the military side, where we have added, wehink we've got to have the greatest military in theld worwe have to have the best technology regarding litary, we have cmitments overseas that we have to keep, w and, sre honoring all those commitments. on the domestic side, i think spending has b too rapid. there are a number of programs, and i can't go through every darn one of them, but there are a nus er of prograt we think are not efficient, and the cotry can do without. some cases -- >> woodruff: let me be specific.ti you're c the environmental protection 31%. you're cutting the education you're cutting elements of medicaid, elements of welfare, eaising work requirements, th question coming out of this is are the american people going to be better off with this budget?

>> well, look, food stamps hav come way down. i mean, we've lost 5 million people on food stamps. that's a terrific thing. other pover areas, hoeless vets, for example, that number has dropped by 5. we have added in our tax plan remendous assistance ough low income workers, child credits, earned income tax credits. we think the essential safety nervis being pre, and then some. but, i want to say, growth solves a lot of problems, so more and more feinderal spe is not a recipe for growth, will not help the people as some people think it will help, andsh so, whld we continue to spend in an unlimited way? >> woodruff: we'll have another conversation about growth next time.rd the wall, you are asking 8.6 billion. you only had 1.6 billion last year when you had a republican

majority in the congress. in this congress republicans are expressing doubts about that much. is the president looking for another showdown or another potential government shutdown potentially? >>he president is looking for border security and that means building a wall. we've brought in experts from i.c.e., custo, d.h.s., and that's what we decided we needed. my view, it's essential we have this border security, because we have an economic crisis, a rdmanitarian crisis, illegals flooding over the , this has to be stopped for the safety and the security of the united states. so i think the preside has made a very effective case. if there is going to be a battle with congress, then so be it, but the experts that we've talked to belie that this is exactly the right number. >> woodruff: but so be it, you're saying if that's what comes the president is prepared to fight for it? >> you have to fight for your

principles and sec turity e southern boarder is essential. we won't have pro -- proitspand law and order as long as we leave that problem unsolved. i understand there are disagreements. we would love to be a bipartisan agreement on this as time goes on, no question about that, there are other areas of bipartisanship we may seek but rder security is essential and the president has made the case. >> woodruff: it's the subjectn of eormous debate, larry kudlow, thank you for being here. >> thank you, judy. dr >> wf: though crossings at the southern border are at historic lows, the num families and unaccompanied minors entering the u.s. hasbe increasing. amna nawaz was granted access to border patrol's yuma sector operations in arizona. this is the firsof two

reports, starting with a view from the u.s. side of the border. and a warning:iewers may find me images disturbing. >> nawaz: under the hot arizona sun, with few belongings and well-worn shoes, these migrants have just crossed onto americana soil after they 4,000 mile journey from guatemala. ey surrendered to border patrol agents from the u.s. customs and border protection agency, or c.b.p. the groups they're encountering in recent years changed dramatically. a dede ago, 90 of immigrants caught crossing illegally wer single adult men from mexico. today nearly 90% are families

and unaccompanied children from ceral america. it's a population the border patrol says they were not prepared to take on. inside here is what they call a processing center, where the families are held for about three days. they won't let us shoot any picture inside, but we can tell yowhat we saw. it's basically a giant cement room, with a processing desk in the middle, and around the perimeter are a number of cells where the families are they're broken up by populations, so mothers and daughters, fathers and sons. but the single most crowded room was for unaccompanied males.ze and dozens of teenagers, lying like sardines in this one cement room.ea but whaty strikes you about the room is how many children there are. a toddlers runniund; infants in their mother's arms. the one thing border officials can tell you is, evecan agree: this is no place for milies and children. we could record video in what they call their "costco"-- a room once filled with office sulies, now packed with diapers, formula, and family

essentials, unpacked by some of the 90 national guard troops sent to backfill staffing. >> this is what we call an enforcement zone, sois triple layer fencing here. >> nawaz: yuma sector chief anthony porvaznik says he's asked for more agents. he already has funding from last year to update 25 miles of border fencing. >> this will all be replaced. >> nawaz: into what? >> it will be 30 feet bollard- style fence. >> nawaz: his resources, he says, haven't changed since 2012, but the job has. porvaznik estimates 35% to 40% of his current manpower goes to processing and caring for the families and children custody. > we just had a lady last week who delivered twins, two months- - two months premature.ey and ee, they see sick kids in our custody. last year alone, we took 550 kids to the hospital here, over 1,700 total here, just in the yuma area. that's a huge strain on our resources, because they're doing that are not enforcemen related. >> nawaz: but agents concede,

no barrier is 100% effective. they proded us this video, showing families ducking underol the 14-yeagirl in this clip broke her vertebrae from the fall. injuries, they say, are common, and further stretch thei resources. >> this dates back to about 1990. >> nawaz: chief porvaznik believes updating older wall will dissuade people fssm trying to cllegally. when you see people who are willg to dig under this and climb over a barbed wire and build keshift ladders to climb over additional fencing, do you think that's enough to det people to try to breach it in some way? >> the majority of the population, yes. it will deter the majority. and what we're trying to do, is impede and deny entry into this area. and so, 87% of our, of the people we apprehend right now, are family units and unaccompanied children. they won't go over a 30-foot bollard. is it going to push it somewhere likely, yes. ( helicopter ) >> nawaz: later in the day, border patrol encountered a

second group of migrants. these 12 guatemalans waded across the colorado river to get into the u.s. >> these are things we have to interact with here on the ground. >> nawaz: deputy chief carl landrum walked us through the dense brush and steep terrain they hiked. it does tell you that what people are willing to go through for the chance to cross. >> it does we would like fo aeverybody to part of that legally to be a part of it. >> reporter: immigration attorney lawyer a lealo says >> nawaz: but immigration attorney laura belous of the arizona-based florence project says resources should n to immigraturts, not physical barriers. >> if you look at the history e border over the last 20 years: increased walls within cities then pushed people into deserts. h if there's walls and deserts, it is going to pople into canyons and rivers, where people are likely to have even more dangerous crossing.

smuggling will be even more expensive. that then makes everyone along the border less safe. >> nawaz: chief porvaznik says, whatever the solution, theat currenion is unsustainable. >> at some point, look, we can't arrest our way out of the problem. that's not going to get us-- that's not going to solve the problem. so we have to figure out, and this is not a border patrol solve; this is-- this comes from legislation, updated laws. >> nawaz: as the policy debate in washington drags on, there's little relief in sight for both those patrolling this border, and those seeking to cross it. say the vast majority of those crossing are families seeking stability or safety. though they also say backgrounds checks someteveal someone with a criminal history. judy, it's worth noting that "criminal history" often means an immigration violation, not a violent crime. but border patrol's bigger concern is who they might be missing, while triy're busy for families. that's why they're asking people to enter legally, and that will be our focus in tomorrow night's

report. >> woodruff: democratic presidential hopefuls fanned out this weekendcourting voters from iowa to austin. john yang has the story. >> yang: in keene, new hampshire, vermont senator bernie sanders made the ca for his presidential candidacy. >> i don't have to tell anyo in this room we're lpring in an edented moment in american history. and when you live in an unprecedented moment, you need to have an unprecedented response, which is what this campaign is about. >> yang: a self-proclaimed democratic socialist, sanders' positions were labeled "impractical" the 2016 campaign. now, he seems to be setting the standard his democratic competitors are measured

against. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren on cbs news' "face the nation." >> can-- do we describe you as a capitalist?at the best... >> yes, i believe in markets,et mathat work, markets that >> so if you get labeled as a socialist? >> well, it's just wrong. >> yang: ...and formrn colorado go john hickenlooper, a moderate. >> i'm happy to say i'm a capitalist, but i think at a certain point the labels do >> yang: a new "des moines register"/cnn poll fin of likely iowa democratic caucus- goers say they would bth "satisfied" nominee who wants the country to be "more socialis" 49% back medicarfor-all 36% support tuition-free college. this weekend, some candates shed winter coats of iowa and new hampshire for sunglasses to appear at the south-by-southwest conference in austin, texas. 37-year-old south bend, diana enyor pete buttigieg took a swipe at vice presmike

pence for his steadfast support of president trump. >> how would he allow himself to become the cheerleader for the porn star presidency? is it that he stopped believing in scripture when he started believing donald trump? asng: a republican presidential longshot: formerchusetts governor bill weld also made the rounds in austin. he's exploring a primary challenge to the president. and that brings us to politics monday. i'm joined by stuart rothenberg, senior editor of inside elections, andusan page, "usa day's" washington bureau chief. susan, let me stt with something that speaker pelosi toldthe washington post" magazine last week, she was asked whether she supported impeaching president trump. she said impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there is something compelling, overwhelming and bipartisan ishon't think we ld go down that path because it divides the country and he's just not worth it.

>> this is consistent with what she's been saying in the last though a little blunter and goes further. it's consistent to what jery adler is saying. but it will make dmocrats unhappy who believe the right thing is to move ahead with impeachment proceedings. nancy pelosi lived through the bill clinton impeachment where the house impeachment and the party that borthecklash was the party that tried to impeach the president. so that's the perspective. but the democrats will be divided on this issue. >> yang: andr members of he caucus will be unhappy. >> i agree, john. basically what she's saying is the democrats want to feel good or win? many of the younger democrats, insurgents, anti-establishmentcr des just can't resist themselves. they really want to take on ther

ident immediately, and impeachment is the most immediate way. j tht don't have any patience. the speaker has history on her side, and i think she's right. >> but, you know,ist not only a matter of beng impatient. if you believe the president's done somhingpeachable, you may feel even if we don't succeed you have a reason to impeach him. with nixon it was evidence built over time. >> the republicans in the senate are not going along with the conviction, so impeachment would make democrats feel good, but i don't think it would patricia inything. >> yang: susan s morning "the washington post" had a look inside the reelection campaign, bag rallies, data mining, and demonizing the opposition. we heard in that taped piece of tawhat the democrats arlking aabot, medicare for all, free

college tuition. are they helping in any way, ais debate about are yo socialist or capitalist, are thto playing inhat? >> the democrats will have to figure out what kind of cofition will deeat donald trump and they're not in agreement. some democrats like stcey abrams came pretty close to wiing governor of gergia who thinks you do that by persuading and energizing core supporters. you get young people andmi rities excited about your candidacy and polled proposals and get them to the polls. but the other democrats say the way we mae big inroads last november is by swinging districts that are purple, who you have to swing independents or vote president sometimes. outhink one of the thing this season will sort is what kind of democrats will make the best case to defeat donald trump. one thing democrats are not divided on is their fervent tsire to deny donaump a

second term. >> i think democrats need swing ters and need to turn out core voters, younger vots, 18 to 29, significant constituencies entering theha electorateis strongly democratic, nonwhites. they need to get more of the voters but need to still hold on to suburban voters and swing voters, white women with a college degree. so i don't think they have to choose one path or the other. they have to do both. >> this is a time when a lot of the democratic candidates are introducing themselves to the country. one, kirsten gillibrand, has hit a little bit of a bump. one of her biggest issues has enen dealing with sexual assault and sexual harasin the military. it's been pointed out by politico that a young woman on her staff unhappy about the wy her sexual harassment was handled.

>> we've had democrats and bernie sanders talk about complaints of sexual harassment but i think this hurts kirsten gillibrand because it's been her significant issue. for her to compaint about sexual harassment about staffer and moving the staffer to be fired only after becoming public makes her look critical. she will have to address it in a forthright way to get overt. >> i agree but you only have one chance to make a first impression, and t we kne senator, you know the senator, but most voters don't knothe senator, and this could be a stumble that she could recover from easily. elizabeth warren has recovered from her native american stumble partially or this could sink joe brand's campaign. we'll se, new polling out of iowa, democrats have to talk about what they wan

it's interesting the top two candidates are joe biden and bernie saders, and they're the second choice for each first choice. you can't think of two candidates who are more a different ot of ways on policy issues. >> i would just say we're almost a year aay from the iowa caucuses. so i don't take the line of the horse race questions on the iowa poll so serusly. what struck me ant that was the policy questions and how liberal the democratic coalition is. iowa, there is majority support for the green new deal which a lot couldn't define, for medicare which is a far reaching proposal. that surprised me and indicated maybe stacey abrams' view you want to take bold poitns resonates the iowa. >> you pick sanders and binds, backup choice, if you pick biden and sanders. >> yng: stu rothenberg, susan

page. >> thank y very much. >> woodruff: now, a new fantasy novel, the first in a proposedy trilt in a mythic africa. jeffrey brown brings us the latest entry on the newshour bookshelf, part of canvas our regular arts and culture series. >> brown: in the writer marlon james' brooklyn apartment: african masks he's collected over the years. superhero toys, and lots of books, including the comics and fantasy stories he's long loved. thtjamaican-born james is b known for his literary fiction, including "a brief history of tseven killings," winner prestigious man booker award. now comes "black leopardred wolf," a tale of magic, shape-

yshifting characters, blo battles and fantastic adventures famiar in some ways, but through a less familiar lens >> i've also said it's almost like an african arabian nights, in that it's a story about stories. what happened? th man is telling you what happened and he gets very digressive along the way, telling you other sorts of ories, other sorts of folktales. because if you read stuff like arabian nights, a story leads into a story leads into a story leads into a story, and that's y brown: i've seen you describe yourself as a fantrd. what did that mean? >> it means i read everything. even my vocabulary of sci-fi cinema, i realized wasn't even cinema.fi t time i saw "return of the jedi," i was like, "oh, my god,r i have neen this and i know everything about that film because i've read the books! i've read the moe tie-ins and i read the comics." so, even my cinematic language was books. it was reading whatever i could get my hands on and usually,

that's stuff like comics or, again, dragon slayer, which again, was a movie tie-in. a lot of the crucial books like lord of ngs and dune i read as an adult. kitchen sink. whatever had words and i could get, i would grab it and read it. >> brown: but what was it and what is it about the fantasy genre that grabbed you and made you want to write one? >> i never took kindthe idea that you outgrow the magical and the surrytl and the fae and i still don't. i've always found it weird that you're suppod to get the point where you mature beyond brothers grimm. i never did that! i never-- >> brown: you're supposed to >> yeah! right? >> brown: grow out of it? >> i never had that literary puberty and i don't want it, either! and i think because of that, i never let go of that always wanting that fantastical. i mean, i'll watch even bad fantasy films. i don't care! just give me a sword and some sorcery and i'llatch it.

i think at some point, though, i did start to react to people that may beingot included or erased. >> brown: people like you?no >> you black people, people of color, being erased from those narrative or not even being in them in the first place and there's a part of me that always wanted, always wished to see just one. somebody like me in a story with dragons and elves and so on. but i think there is a thrill, particularly when you are young, to see somebody like yourself in a story. >> brown: so, the stories that went into this book from african mythology, from history, where did you find it e,l? >> everywhncluding online. thank god for the internet! old folktales.

there are so folktales that i mean, i'll rd the ship logs. ll read the tax records. i want to read the original information and then form my own story. my lilt care sensitivities are influenced by tulle as well as charles dickens. that's who i am and how i writee atame time, i'm writing a novel that is trying, at least attempting to put forward a vision that is not edropean an is not influenced by european values, not even by european accounting system. so the dilemma is: how do i use this language i know, english, that's what i write in's what i speak, but try to come up with something that is very

foreig if anything, the novel has toos read alike an english translation than engsh. so, for example, some characters lkeak only in the present tense, even when they're g about the past, which is also very jamaican. all our verbs in jamaica english stay present tense, regardless of tense. i thought that was just bad english. and fantasy does give freedom, the kind of playgroundh to play ll of that but also to be true to the structure of languages. >> brown: did you think much about how this is intended for, who the audience is? i mean, you've mostly had a litera following, i think, right? so, is this fantasy for the literary lovers? and what about the fantasy lovers? will they think it's too literary? >> you know what? i still think i write for everybody.

i put a lot of trust in the reader. i'll say, "yeah, there are parts where you might feel you're out without a paddle. don't worry, the curnt is coming so, i still think i writfor everybody. you think people still have the attention span to read it, stay with it? >> my theory is that all those kids who read harry potter are grown up now, so they've already read 900 page novels. i think theye ready. and if nothing else, there are good battle scenes! >> brown: all right, "black leopard, red wolf." marlon james, thanks very much! >> thank you for having me. >> woodrf: and we'll be back shortly with a look at how to best handle moments when you fa but first, take a moment to hear

from your local pbs station.nc it's a cto offer your support, which helps keep programs like ours on the air.

>> woodruff: new coke. the fire phone. big mistakes for coca cola and amazon, but their c.e.o.'s, and those of many other coanies have worked the concept of failure into their corporate culture. letting employees fail is seen as a way of finding the next bi that works. novelist and professor elizabeth

mccracken also sees the value, but in her hume opinion. it's e darker side of failure that ends up pushing you to success. >> lately i've been thinking about failure. for instance: it's a pet peeve ofnine when people say that honor has "humbled them." it hasn't. by what definition could that happen? you might an that you think you should remain humble in the face of an honor, and sure, why not, but it doesn't actually humble you. failure, on the other hand, tends to humble people. yoich is right and also good. because only whefail can you stand up and assess the damage and then get really furious, and then vow revenge. i teach creative writing, and i atalways tell my students revenge is great motivation for writing. like, the problem is i'm harder on myself than anyone else is. is is never true. or else: my problem is that i'm

a perfectionist. to which i always say, oh, you don't like failing in public, unlike the rest of us? sometimes we forget failure is actually good for you. your immune system needs a bit of if you recall in orbedder to benoculated against further failure.t the anibodies failure produces aren't pretty but they are motivating -- vengeance, lieu brings. my most successful students have already failed. oaybe they didn't get int graduate school the first time. maybe they were rejected by a a bunch nts. maybe they started a completely different career because the w parents didnt them to be writers. and failure instilled in them a particular feeling: not a commitment to their art, or a sense of peace about their fate, "i thought," one student omine said, just before she sold her

novel, "i'll show them." stwe often think that the work comes from a place of equilibrm and support, but the thing is: equilibrium is pretty static, whereaa well- nourished, very private feeling of revenge has enough heatnd light to power a city, never mind a novel. it's almost heartwarming: sometimes, when you think, i'll show them, the them you end up showing is yourself. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight.dr i'm judy wf. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new language, like spanish, french, german, italian, and more. babbel's 10-15 me ute lessons ailable as an app, or online.on more informan babbel.com.

>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial c literacy in thentury. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to bui, ing a more jurdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org or and with the ongoing su of these institutions >> this program was made e corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned byss media acroup at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ -today on rica's test kitchen," julia bridget a hearty beef and vegetable stew, adam shares his top pick for glass baking dishes, dan reveals the science behind sound and flavor, and bridget shows julia a delicious recipe for cod baked in fl. it's all coming up right here on "america's test kitchen."