captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: as president trump visits the southern border, we look at the potential risks of shutting down access between the u.s. and mexico. then, 25 years after the rwandan genocide, three survivors use photogra find reconciliation with the perpetrators of mass killings. >> your photography can help you tell your story to other people, and then they can learn about you. that can be a medicine. that can heal someone. >> woodruff: and, it's friday. mark shields and david brooks analyze the president's threat to shut down the u.s. southern border, the latest on the mueller report, and how joe biden is handling "personal space." m all that aore, on tonight's pbs newshour.

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>> woodruff: down on the border, president trp is in southern california this evening, touring the boundary with mexico, and talking tough about migrants. but he is now playing down any plans to cut off cross-border traffic. amna nawaz has our report. >> nawaz: as he left the white house this morning... >> i never change my mind at all. might shut it down. >> nawaz: ...denials from president trump that he had backed down, after threatening to close theorder with mexico. this week, he said he'd reassess in a year, and again today hailed mexico's efforts to stop migrants at their uthern making yeto another threat. >> mexico has been absolut terrific for the last four days. they're apprehending everybody.e erday, they apprehended 1,400 people, the day before it was a 1,000.eh and if they apd people at their southern border, where they don't have to walk through, that's big home run. mexico understands that we're going to close the border or i'm going to tariff the cars. >> nawaz: the president then

flew to southern california, met by protestors and by homeland security secretary kristjen nielsen, capping off her three- day border tour. their meetings with law enforcement and tour of a newly-built wall replacingde barriers come. as attorneys general from 20 states filed suit to stop the trump adminiration from diverting other federal money to fund border wall const >> president trump's policies exacerbate any issues at our border. since taking office, he has created chaos for imgrants seeking safety and security. president trump is not above th law will continue to hold him accountable. it is time for us to make it clear that if you want to build something using tax payer money, you have get permission the way previous psidents have always done. it's not just the law, it's the constitution. >> nawaz: house democrats said yesterday they, too, will sue. a tatement, speaker nancy pelosi said the administration's move violates congress' right to control spending because it "was not authorized by constitutional or statutory authority." president trump, meanwhile, confirmed today 's withdrawn ron vitiello's nomination to

lead ice, the immigration and customs enforcement agency. >> ron is a good man, but we're going in a tougher direction. at a roundtable this afternoon in calexico, california, the president laid out what that "tougher direction" might mean.t system is full. we can't take you anymore. whether it's asylum, whether it's anything you want, illegal immigration, we can't take you anymore >> nawaz: this, as the back-up continues. after moving hundreds of agents from these ports of entry to help manage the famili children entering the u.s., the trump administration has nowur created long waits across the border. for the pbs newshouri'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: in the day's other nee u.s. job market bounced back in march. the labor department reports employers added a net 196,000 jobs, up sharply from february. meanwhile, the unemployment rate held steady at 3.8%. wage growth slowed slightly,

th a 3.2% increase from a year ago. we will take a closer look at the numbers after the news summary. former vice president joe biden today defended his displays of affection toward women, but tried to defuse the criticism he has been taking. atdeast four women have sai biden made them uncomfortable with hugs and other physical contact. at a washingn speech, he joked about hugging the man who leads the electrical workers union, saying he had "perssion." later, he spoke in a more serious in. >> i'm sorry i didn't understand more. i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sorry for anything that i have every done. i have never been disrespectfula intenty to a man or a woman. that's not the reputation i had since i was in high school, for god's sake. >> woodruff: at the same time, biden acknowledged he will have to change the way he campaigns. and, he said he plans to make a final decision about running for

president "relatively soon." british prime minister theresa may has requted a further delay in her country's departure from the european unn. her request today could buy more time to fashion a deal thawill pass parliament. in a letter to european council president donald tusk, may asked to push the date back to june 30.br ain is currently set to leave the e.u. on april 12, with no deal. a in saubia, human rights groups and activists say authorities have detained eight people who have supported jailed women righ activists. two are u.s.-saudi dual citizens. atmost are writers and adv. these are the first such arrts since the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi by saudi government agents, last october. a japanese spacecraft has successfully blasted a craterur into thece of an asteroid. japan's space agency tweeted

rgages today of the asteroid and the area that was ed today. it should clear the way forti coll underground samples and returning them to earth.to the goal i learn more about the origins of earth and the solar systtr and, on wallt, the dow jones industrial average gained 40 points to close at 26,425. the nasdaq rose nearly 47 points, and the s&p 500 added 13. still to ce on the newshour: we break down the latest numbers on jobs and wages. house judiciary committee chairman jerry nadler on plans to subpoena the mueller report. the healing power of photography, 25 years after the rwandan genocide. and, much more. >> woodruff: after a worrisome jobs report in februar the labor market rebounded last

month. te unemployment rate is near a 50-year low, a u.s. economy has created jobs forei more that years, or 100 months-plus straight. but president trump is making it clear he believes the federal reserve holding the economy back from even stronger growth. william brangham getok at the wider picture. >> brangham: job growth is averaging around 180,000 jobs a month for the first quarter of this year. that's a solid number by most measures, but it's also about 20% lower than a year ago. the president touted the economy's overall performance this morning. pt even as he does that, he's also stepping up hlic campaign against the fed and its chairman, jay powellai it should bethat trump selected powell for the job. let'dive into all of this wi david wessel, who joins us again from the brookings institution, where he heads the hutchins center on fiscal and monetary policy.

david, let's talk a little bit about the jobs numbers first. they seem like pretty good jobs. numb what is your take on this report? >> right. it was because the february job numbers were frighteningly poor. this sugges, though, that t economy, while doing well is slowing. manufacturing jobs fewer, temporary help jobs fewer of them, for the blst two or three months, so there is sign the economy is leveling off, but we still have % unemployment and surprisingly little wage growth considering how tight the labor market is. >> as i metioned before, the fed is very much on the president's mind. yesterday he said he planned to nominate herman cain federal reserve board. you may remember cain as the former c.e.o. of godfather's pizza who ran for psident in 2012 running on a flat tax an ended as allegations of sexual harassment came out about him.

he plans to nominate stephen moore, who has been a vocal critic of the fed. president trump this morning took another shot at the fed both for is stance on interest rates and the way it has beenri ing the huge portfolio of bonds it bought during the financial crisis, a poly known as quantitative easing. >> well, i personally think the feds should drop rates. i think they likely slowed us down. there's nonflation. i would say, in trms of quantitative tightening, it should be quantitative easu g, uld see a rocket ship. despite that, we're doing very well. >> davie wessel, with these two nominees and the president's ongoing criticism of the federal reserve, it certainly seems he wants the fed to act more as a partisan actor rather than its traditional independent role. >> well, i think what the president is saying the he wants people on the fed who will cut interest rates because hehinks they should.

these two men are partisan,behey have boten involved in the partisan fray. steve moore is campan contributor for growth he organized. herman cain ran for president. i think he wants loyalists. he doesents seem feel he wants to respect the politndal indece of the fed, he wants people in this job to do what he wants. >> as a devil'sdvocate, doesn't every present want a healthy economy? eow much difference does it mak if the fed becomes more partisan. >> i think in general presidents want people who are confident and will do the right thing. they tend to appoint people mor sympathetic to him. president obama tended to appoint democrats, for insnc but i think in this case, these two men aren't, frankly, serious think,. they're more tv talk show commentators on the economy and i thksk that risndermining the credibility of the fed.

it's quite a contrast to the president's previous appointments to the fed who are people who wmp at the present time and could have been appointed by any republican president. >> do you think those two men will make it under the fed and, longer term, what do you think that doto fed's reputation? >> i don't know if they will .ake it on to the fed the president seems determined to nominate them. he announced their names even before formally cleared by the white house background. so far the replicans have been willing to accept even unconventional nominees to have we'll see if this is one step too far. i don't think they will change licy at the fed, there will be two snro the wilderness. the fed is a very strong institution, and ther there are people tappointed byhe president and federal reserve ,anks across the country, 12 who will be a balance. but i think it udermines the

fed's credibility as politically insulated orgazation of technocrats who do what they think is right for the economy, o sometimes make mistakes but are motivated by the economy and worry less about what the president wants them to do. >> davie wessel of the hutchins center. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> woodruff: it has been two weeks since special counsel robert mueller concluded his investigation into presidentp' tr2016 campaign and russian interference. only attorney general william barr's summary of the nearlyep 400-paget has been ntleased publicly. mr. barr says heds to release a redacted version sometime this month. but, that would change if the house judiciary committee got its way. democrats on the committee voted this week to authorize subpoenas for the full report. the chairman of judiciary committee, representative jerry

nadler of new york, joins me now. chairman nadler, welcome to the "newshour". thank you for joining u. >> good evening. >> woodruff: before i ask you about the subpoena authorization, i want to aou you, what doxpect to receive from the attorney general? >> what we expect to receive is the entire mural -- mueller report and all the underlying evidence. that's what we're entitled to. congress has the right and the duty to look all of tt. we are the only agency that can hold the president accntable, especially since the department of justice thinks that a sitle president can never be indicted. we are the only agency that can ld the president accountable. we are constitutionally responsible for that and, to do that job, we need to see the nctire report and all the underlying evi >> woodruff: as you know he's scrubbing it for grand jury information, classified information, material he says relevant to ongoing

investigations. how much of it do you think he's not going to let you see? >> i think he's going to try to not let us see most of it's because ot very broad definitions, but it's not his job to do that. we have to see all of it in every analogous situation, whether with nixon, clinton or with other situations, congress and the person of the judiciarym tee have seen all the information, the entire report, and we can then decide if eth are any necessary redactments to otect sources and methods of intelligence and things of that nature. it is not the job of the attorney general, who, is after all, a political appointee oft the presidho is hired for the job in order to protect the president personally we know that this president fired the previous attorney general because heu woldn't protect him personally, fired the head of the f.b.i. because he said he wouldn't protect him personally, and hired barr after barr wrote ea 19-pageo saying

that a president could never be guilty of obstruction justice. >> woodruff: right. so he is not a fit -- fit position to make sheas judgments as to -- make these judgments as to what can go out publicly. >> woodruff: are you saying he's not a fai broker -- playing fair in all this? >> he's certainly not a fair he gave up any pretense of fairness when he wrote initial memo saying a president couldn't -- being very cri of the entire investigation and saying that -- and using a very wild, far-out legal theory to say a president could never be guilty of obstruction of justice. >> woodruff: to clarify, when you talk about the material he's going to turn over, is this material just for the judiciary committee to see or material that would be make public for everyone. >> no, it's for thry judic committee to see and to decide what has to be kept pripevate. lly, we'll decide that almost everything would be public, but there would be somes

thhat couldn't be public because they involve intelligence sources and methods and various other things. but that's what was done in the past. congress and the judiciary committee was given everything and decided how much of that to make public. >> woodruff: so the decision would come from your committee. so when it comes to the subpoena, you have been authorized to issue a subpoena, you expect to use ot and, if, when? >> we expect to use it very shortly, if the attorney general does nt give us the entire report and the underlying documents. the question is not theiming. he has said he will release the redacted versi by theiddle of the month which probably means a week from now more or less. that is not the issue. the issue is what eleased. we'll issue a subpoena to make sure everything is released to the judiciary committee and to the congress. >> woodruff: do you have reason to believe that members to have the mueller investigative team who hav

talking to people, who have been talking to the press, do you have reason to believe that what there is in th report is more w?maging to the president than what we kno that's clearly what they are suggesting. are they saying that to membersc you evmittee, to you? >> well, i don't know if they're saying it to the members of our committee, and i haven't talked to them, but we're reading in the press -- you know, the mueller team did not leak at all for 22 months. now they're coming out and people -- and they are reportedly saying to differee agencies in ess that the report is much more damning to the president than the attorney general lets on. there's an nbc newt s repat says the report depicts the trump campaign as being subjects to a russiann itelligence operation. so, clearly, there's a lot of frustration. and, you know, they also apparently, allegedly, wrote summaries that could brapidly released, and they weren't

released. hastead, the attorney general, an agent t the administration, a political apeanutee of the administration, took it upon himself to characterize or perhaps mischaracterize the report in a couple of phrases and, again, we have the right to see all of that, the american people have the right to see as much as possible of that. >> woodruff: chairman nadler, 's one thing to issue subpoenas, but it's another thing altogether to get what you're asking for. w much legal authority, how much power ultimately does the congress have to deand that y get this information you want? >> very subantial power. i mean, you look at the precedence in the nixon tapes case, that was the most privileged material imaginable. i mean, those tapes wee the president talking to his advisors, they claimed executive privilege, and the court said executive prilege cannot be used as a shield for wrongdoing iand orderedt released and

those tapes were relsed and despite the claim of executive hiivilege. so i we have a very, very solid legal case. again, in every previous case, the coress saw all this material, in addition to which we have the constitutional duty to hold the president accountable. nobody else has that duty, and it's impossible to fulfill that duty without this information, and that's a very strong part of the case. >> so you think you've got the legal upper hand? >> idro. >> wof: and finally, mr. chairman, as you know, republicans and others, the president, are saying democrats are overreaching, even some democrs have raised this question, you know, that if you try to appear so determined to get information that the dertment of justice is saing shouldn't be made public, shouldn't be shared for a series of what they say are legitimate reasons, then it l like the democrats are grasping.

>> well, that is nonsense. the congress has the constitutional responsibility oh holdin president accountable and of judgi adherence to law. we have the duty to uphold the rule of law, to hand down on abuses of power and obstruction of justice. that's our job. we have to do that job. demanding the information to do that job is not overreachg and, again, in every previous stuation, congress did i job and they didn't overreach. now, the public -- we will release to the public as much as possible. we wl have to protect certain information for sources and methods and so forth, but congress must see ts because if congress doesn't get all the information, the president becomes above the law and subjects to no accountability and that cannot bsin thi country. >> woodruff: i'm sorry, what

did you say? >> and that cannot be this country, neither the president nor anybody else can be above the law. >> woodruff: representative jerry nadler, chaman of the house judiciary committee, we thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshour: the potential economic and personal impacts of shutting down the u.s.-mexico border. mark shields and david brooks break down the week's top stories. and, irish singer hozier on finding hope iuncertain times. this month marks the 25th anniversary of the rwandan genocide. upwards of 800,000 people were killed in just over three months. 95,000 children were orphaned. 75% of ethnic tutsis were wiped out, by extremists from the hutu ethnic group. now, three young men impacted by

the olence have turned toy, photographhowing the resilience of the country. special correspondenbeth murphy, of the groundtruth project, reports from rwanda. >> reporter: 25 years after being orphaned by e genocide, gadi, mussa and bizimana are trekking through rwanda, withe the onssession that matters now to them most: their cameras. >> ( translated ): i'm taking pictures of these clothes. women who were kille and bies who were killed. sometimes people would come, and if they recognized the cloth, they would know this is their baby >> reporter: they're taking pictures here at one of the nearly 250 memorials that dot the country, and asking questions, trying to understand the unimaginable horror that left nearly one million peoplein dead, includtheir parents. in april 1994, extremists from the minant hutu ethnic group began a 100-day killing spree to minorityountry tutsis. the united nations had

peacekeeping troops on the ground, but shameful inaction by the international community allowed the slaughter to. contin >> ( translated ): when i think about the people who killed my parents, i think of how they destroyed the relationships i would have had with my parents. >> ( translated ): your photography can help you tellyo story to other people. then they can learn about you. that can be a medicine. that can heal someone. >> reporter: this genocide memorial in western rwanda is the one closest to the orphanage where they were raised. many of the people buried here were killed in the months before the official srt of the genocide, when hutu extremists were practicing how to kill on a massive scale. >> ( translated ): how many bodies are here? >> ( translated ): almost 9,000. >> reporter: the killers of ese 9,000 people are wel known in this community. one of them is gasenge. he was sentenced to 30 years in jail, but released after 15 becau he led authorities to thousands of bodies, and he agreed to seek forgiveness fromm

his vi families. >> ( translated ): i'm, like, i'm scared.pl you're the pwho killed my parents, and i'm sad to hear you were enjoying killing. >> ( translated ): we had nail- studded clubs called "no mercy." others had machetes. >> ( translated ): when you attacked tm, what did your victims do? >> ( translated ): they were ying, begging, "please have mercy." >> ( translated ): we lost our parent's love, we lost their affection. as someone who lived through is, i wanted to know the people who committed genocide. how... why... did they do it? >> reporter: this question, "why?" why would anyone slaughter/kill ldarmed men, women and chin? there can never be a satisfacry answer to this question. but, the perpetrators have a consistent one.

as abdullah tells them, government-sanctionehings demonized and dehumanized tutsis, inspiring a nationwide machine of death to hate and kill. >> ( translated ): school lessons taught us, tutsis are evil. they even gave them many nasty names. >> ( translated ): like what? >> ( translated ): they wereed caockroaches, snakes... >> ( translated ): the example you gave, calling them cockroaches and snakr , they were yighbors. you knew that they were good people. t you knt they were not snakes. what we you told in class and in government teachings, that made you change and believe that s true? >> ( translated ): what made me change is, they said tutsis are invading the country to kill hutus. so, even though i'd seen them as human beings, after hearing that tutsis are evil snakes, that

became i i decided that instead of being killed by a tutsi, i would rather kill. >> reporter: as gadi, mussa and bizimana travel from village to village, they're stunned to learn that every perpetrewor they meet he woman roz carr. she's the one who became their ther. at theime of the genocide, roz had been living in rwanda over 40 years-- longer than any other foreigner. she was running a flow and help families in the community by donating medicine and clothing. gasenge even met roz at the start of the genocide, demandinn that sheover tutsis she was hiding in her home. she never did. and then she was ford to evacuate. >> i thought the genocide would be stopped immediately by the u.n. troops, which of course could've stopped it in a week, and saved so many lives. heartbreaking. >> reporter: when roz returned to rwanda, she started the imbabazi orphanage, at the ageca

of 82, t for children whose parents were killed in the genocide. this is where gadi, muss band bizimanaame brothers-- and photographers-- thanks to years of training by the photo project through the eyes of children. >> in the year 2000, my children, we had a vit from an american from connecticut.hi name was david jiranek. he said he had an idea of teaching the orphans photography. >> this premiere exhibit is thet first exhibit children's work. we thoug show everyone in rwanda just what our children are capable , when they're given an opportunity. >> the last thulg i thought change their lives is photography. but it has. >> ( translated ): when i learned photography, that's when i was able to express myself.

i realized that i matter. >> reporter: it's a reization they want other chil experience. to make that happen, gadi, mussn bizimana have gone from being students of through the eyes of children, to becoming its teachers. photo workshops they're runninge around torld are designed to help other children who've osffered from trauma and l kids like 12-year-old adrian, who's in foster care in boston. >> this is awesome! >> you like it? >> reporter: in rwanda, the teaching they're doing is giving even more children the ability to document and tell their own story-- and rwanda's. something theye been doing for nearly 20 years. and when they look through the lens, they see a humanity that was lost, now found, especially in the n t generation, their generation. >> and it was hard to believe, to be honest, until i met this couple. one is a son of a perpetrator, and the other one is a survivor. from killing each other,

forgiving each other, reuniting with each other, living with each other, now marrying each other. it's a sign of how far things ha come. >> reporter: for the pbs newshour, i'm beth murphy in gisenyi, rnda. >> woodruff: and, beth murphy's story is the subje of a forthcomindocumentary, called "camera kids." >> woodruff: about 120 miles west from the stretch of border president trump visited today is the country's busit saland pofoe cross the border near san diego every day, for school, work or shopping. as jean guerrero from pbs station kpbs reports, if the president follows thon threats to close the u.s.-mexicu border, it have a big impact on local residents and the economy.

>> reporter: more than 100,000 people cross the border daily in san diego antijuana, and the cities exchange more than $4ye billion . president trump earlier this week floated closing the border to address the unprecedented number of families ag for asylum in the u.s. we will have a strong border. we will have closed border. >> reporter: president trump subsequently backed off giving mexico a year to solve the crisis, or else. threats to close the border are scaring people here.o' san dihotels rely on workers from tijuana. americans who can'o afford san dihousing live in tijuana while commuting to work. wealthier mecans send their kids to private school in san diego. san diegans who cat afford health care in the u.s., go to doctors in tijuana, such as o lives in san, diego, but has a dentist in tijuana. >> i came here because it's cheap, or cheaper, in tijuana

than in san diego. >> reporter: herrero is seeing a doctor at the first mexican h.m.o. to be licensed as a health care provider by the state of california.s simnsa offdical and dental services to americans, but in tijuana. c.e.o. frank carrillo says dozens of people canceled theiro tments this week because trump's threats to close the border made them afraid they'duc get in mexico if they crossed the border. threats alone, that in itself is creating a problem. people don't want to make the. trip >> reporter: carillo says the h.m.o. employs about 500ph icians, and treats between 1,500 and 2,000 patients every day. he says closing the border would be devastating, not only for his business but for most of the people he knows. >> we're dividing families by doing this. so really, nobody wins in this situation nobody wins. >> reporter: san diego mayor kevin faulconer believes in the

benefits of cross-border trade. >> our relationship with our friends in tijuana, our relationship with mexico, is a strength of ours. >> reporter: many local residents live as if the region were a single place. >> san diego and tijua are really one metropolitan area. even though there's a border between us that separates us geographically and politically and all thistuff, we are one community. >> reporter: lucila conde works at a san diego non-profit that installs solar panels for low- income families. but she has a house in tijuana, and cares for sick relatives there. >> we have commitments and relationships on both sides. i have a family member who is on dialysis in mexico and she requires help and attention. >> reporter: every morning, dozens of new asylum seekers a

arrivet the port of entry to put their names on a wait list. it takes weeks to be calleto speak to a u.s. customs officert because backlog, most are from southern mexico and central america. ome from other areas. one woman, who's been waiting since last month, is from cuba. >> if they close the border, i don't know what's going to happen to us. >> reporter: she asked for anonymity, because she fears for her life. >> when a human leaves her country, her culture, her habits and roots, is because she must. because the saddest thing in the world is be a migrant. people humiliate you. they mistreayou. >> reporter: back at the medical practice, carrillo says that as much as he fears for his business, he fears for asylum- seekers, too. >> the crisis is real. it is real, it's not fabricatede o have a crisis. the crisis is in central america. these people are fleeing poverty

and violence. so the answer to this problem is go to the root of the problem. the root of the problem is there. >> reporter: he says the u.s. should help people in central america. but president trump re announced plans to end all aid to guatemala, honduras and el salvador as punishment for failing to stem the tide of migrants. for the pbs newshour, i'm jean guerrero of kpbs news, on the border. >> woodruff: now, to the analysis of shields ooks. that is syndicated columnist mark shields, and "new york times" columnist david brooks. hello to both of you. let's talk about the border, mark. the president this week has been at one point saying he's going to close it,e's angry at mexico and has been angry at thr central an countries. now he changed and said, well, you know, maybe we won't do that but we might do it later.

what do you make of his overall approach to what's going on with this crisis at the border? i well, the fact that the piece demonstrates so wethe totalnterdependence of the border, mexico and southernrn cali. that is the pattern throughout. we're talking about the united states' third largest trading partner, mexico, $1.5 billion a day in good services being traded back and forth from each country. what the president shedore than anything else was a problem that's nagged his entire administration, he just wasn't informed on th and his threats were not onl unnerving but they really did thmost impossible, third republicans on the hill beginning with majority leader mcconnell to say it wod

be catastrophic to cut off trade. following on the heels, judy, of the president's making the republicans a healthcare party after the election where they suffered the biggest defeat n 100 years, midterm election on the healthcare issue, by a 3-1 margin, americans thought democrats were better on healthcare than republicans, and attacks on john mccain, it was unsettling in any confidence in the president, particularly in his own party. >> woodruff: how do you size up how he's handled it? >> i give him a credit. he has been saying there's a o cristhe border for the past six, eight months and i think he's right and i think some of us havwe donplayed that, but it's clear jay johnss , who the obama administration, saying there's a crisis, there's 4,000 people getting detained every day, a backlog of a million case all our facilities are completely overrun, so tropical storm clearly a crisis at the the

bordert the problem donald trump is, a, no policy process. when he announces a policy, there's nothing bind it, it'os just wrds comg out of his mouth. but the idea the wall is the answer is ridiculous, these are asylum seekers, it's irrelevant to the situation. the problems in the countries that have become lawless and el salvador is the most dangerous peacetime nation in the world right now, 95% of the crimes are not being solved or prosecuted, hundreds of millionl ofrs in extortion, you have families living in the middle of all these killings, what are tey expected too? as long as you have that situation, we're going to have this crisis at the the border because we're all one conntti one people -- maybe two continents but we're one people. you have to fix it at the room. there's no easy way to do that but there's no other answer. >> woodruff: no eay to do that, mark. are we all acknowledging the answers don't come easy, but

what can be done? >> nobody's ever pr there have been serious efforts and public officials in both parties deserve credit for making an effort to come up with an immigration policy in this country. there's been no way to shift in this administration atll. democrats have a responsible as well. migration thoughout history has been driven by two factors, one, fear, anger, isolation, and the place where you are, and a hope, the place you're goi, which the united states has more often than not represented the latter, and david is right, but the answer to honduras and guatemal is nto cut off aid, it's to make an effort to be creative in trying to bring some sense of juice, order, economic stability to those countries and political safety. that is -- that, to me, is the first step --

>> woodruff: but -- go ahead. >> woodruff: i was going to say the president argued that hasn't worked. he said we haen giving these countries help and it hasn't worked. >> that's not true. in the fst place, it's important to distinguish between two kinds of people who are coming here, one are economically motivated, they want jobs here, and, fnkly, american efforts across several administrations have done at grb at reducing the job of economic people who come here,th buflow of mexican workers who come to this country is down. we have a situation where more latinos were leaving than coming and that's becaus e wed some role in helping the mexican economy becoming healthy. what we're seeing now is fear-driven. think of people leaving syria for lebanon. it's a lit moral like that than the ecnomic immobility. these people are leaving inra disparate s because they have no other choice and this heir asylum seekers. so these are two different things, and the idea our aid has not done much tore that, i would

say we haven't even tried. >> and th dbacklog thvid speaks of is, in fact, that people seeking asylu i mean, it's uprooting the entire family. this is not the traditional male leaving to make moo send it home, to return home with that money. >> woodruff: change of subject, the mueer report. david, i don't know you heard but congressman jerry nadler, chairman of the judiciary committee was on the program.he aid outright he expects the attorney general should give congress the fuel mueller report, almost 400 pages of it but went on to say he doesn't think the attorney general has been a fair broker in this r a number of reasons. he expects to get less than that, but we're going to see subpoenas. where do you see this process going? >> i think that's an error, a mistake. i think one of the things that's been well established with a fex baptions is when you release a report like this you

don't release the grand jury information and sources and methods. barr told us he's cleaning that out and will release the rest >> woodruff: nay says it's just going to the committee and won't be released to the public. >> fit goes to the committee, it t'll go to the public. in my view, tha much more dangerous option. so, to me, maybe he's rightba abour, maybe barr is not an honest broker here, we don't know. i think he's handled it reasonably well. but at least let barr issue the next piece to have the report he'll issue, let's take a look and see what we think then. but the idea of leakingut the whole report, which i think would be inevitable, seems to me a miscarriagof justice >> woodruff: what do you think to have the nadler approach, the democrats' approach? >> i think two factors. first of all, i think attorney general barr gave the president a green light, and i think that has obviouslset off a sense of frustration and anger on the

part of people who worked on the mueller group, as well as democrats, in particular. i think the president they ve gone too far with it. what i worry about with chairman nadler is anybody with a snse of history in this town, in 1998, one of the reasons that the effort agast blintsen failed was because of the excessive partisanship of newt gingrich and people like that and the republican leadership and it became to be seen as a partisan drive agast him. contrast that, judy, with howard baker, sam irvin, and peterrm rdino, ch of the house judiciary committee during the time of watergate when they all rose above any petty partisanship. i don't think it ought to be seen as a demc ocrant. i do think it's coming, and i think that -- >> woodruff: the full report? i think the full report will eventually get out, but i think

bob mueller will testify, and i think the attorney general said he's going to testify as well. i would like to see it play out before we go to defcon one >> woodruff: but you're saying it will take several steps? >> i think it will. i think the pressure is building on attorney general barr because he knows -- his summary of the mueller report does not meet with theatisfaction or professional passage on the part of the people who worked on the mueller. i likely think that's the problem. >> it's possible to believe two things at ice, that s investigation conducted by honest brokers found no evidence of collusion and not sufficient evidence of obstruction, but there's a lot more in the report that will make the trump administration look ba, i think we'll find both those things to be true in the fullness of time. >> woodruff: former vice president joe biden, mark, has been the subject this week

of a number of complaints from women who sae was in their personal spat, they fel uncomfortable with the way he thuched them, held their shoulders, kisseback to have the top of their heads. he spoke about it, tweeted about it the oth s day, heaid i hear you, i'm not going to be doing this anymhee. todaad a little joke about it at a speed limit. afterwards, he came out and said, i hear you, my behavior is changing. how is he handling this? how is it going to affect hira for president, which we assume he's making?n >> he's not dling it well. 47 years in washington, joe biden has been the epitome of the admirable father and husband. there's never been, to the best ofy knowledge, a whisperer of joe biden as a sexual predator, as a player, somebody who is stepping out, chasing skirts or anything of the sort. joe biden is a politician from sh, ofa of press the fle

being in touch with people of both gendersand i think his opponents are using this, quite frankly, and joe has, unfortunately for his sake, played into their hand as an indication or metaphor that he's out of touch, that he belongs to a different era. it was once said the test of any leader is a man know and understand the times he livesd mself. joe biden, i think, knows himself very well, unfortunatelk he th it's 1959. donald trump, we showed in 2016 he understands the tell, unfortunately he thinks he's brad pitt. thidea donald tru could use sexual predatorring as an issue against joe biden shows a lack of embarrassment and a total shamelessness on the president's part. >> when i started covering congress, i was always stunned by how much the members would

touch me and just putheir arms around my shoulders and talk to me. i was uncomfortable to meco because e from a different generation and social class, i dot come from scranton. but eventually i saw it as a sign of connection and resi ct anked it when someone put their hands on my shoulders because they were re to meet me as a person. it wasn't a sexual thing, it was a connection thing. i have been around joe biden a lot. i think he's a very, very admirable man, and does he conduct himself in ways where mores ve changed? maybe. but they're trying to impute his character and insult the digty and intention with which he goes about his life and i think it's he may touch where people in different classes and mores don't touch and maybe you should be more wspectful of thith others, but to think that's a sign he's less than perfect

character is completely wroanng unfair. >> woodruff: mores are changes. >> democrats hwhe to decide her they will nominate somebody who will beat donald trump in 2020and be an effective, honorable. t-- president who will restore confidence, or get into a contest about who is the most woke, that's a choice they will be on a sued side pact. >> woodruff: mark shields, david brooks, thank you both. >> woodruff: now, finding hope in uncertain tes in song. the singer-songwritehozier is out with his second album, that debuted at number one on the charts last month.n jeffrey brught up with the irish musician in orlando recently, for our ongoing arts

and culture series, "canvas." ♪ all the fear, and the fire of the end of the world ♪ >> brown: on his new album, "wasteland baby!" hozier evokes scenes of the apocalypse. ♪ ♪he alls them "love songs for the end of the world." but they come wrapped in a velvet baritone, and a sense ofu r. >> it's not about delivering certainly bad news, but even with thosein anxieties and engaging with them honestly, and just laying it out there, and that can be-- can be done in a fun way. i'd be a bad irish man if i wasn't able to pull some fun out of that. ( ♪ "take me to church" ) >> brown: hozier-- his full nami is andrew -byrne-- was 23, and writing songs in his parents' attic, when he penned the one that catapulted him from obscurity to fame in 2013.

♪ take me to church i'll worship like a dog ♪ at the shrine of your lies s i'll tell you s and ♪ you can sharpen your knife offer me that dehless death ♪ good god let me give you my lif♪ >> brown: "take me to church,"ti is a searing csm of the catholic church-- ♪ amen amen ♪ >> brown: --with a music video depicting and denouncing ai- gay violence-- not the usual stuff of top 40 hits. but it topped the charts in a dozen countries, and was nominated for song of the year at the grammys. ( ♪ "nina cried power" ) >> brown: his new album again speaks to current events, opening with the rousing "nina cried power," featuring an icon of soul, mavis staples... ♪ nina cried power billie cried power ♪ mavis cried power pa >> brown: --anng tribute to a long list of singers, including nina simone, who used their voices to demand justice. ♪ and i could cry power powerer ♪ p power >> 2016 was just an interesting time. you had a kind of an upswing of rhetoric, which was, both inci

l discourse and in political discourse, that was, that playep to, not the bets of us at and i just wanted to write something that was decidedly hopeful, that looked to a spirit of kind of solidarity, and lo solidarity.a legacy of we ian call it protest musicf you wanted to. i just, i wasn't hearing a huge amount of it in the kind of ssic that i was-- that i making. >> brown: born in county wicklow, irend, hozier grew up with american blues and soul music. >> my dad was a gig musician. just a live mund of gigging cian, really, full time. i remember hearing, like, soul music for the first time. i was always drawn to voices. i was alwaysand i was a singer before i could play anything else. i had fallen in love with the voice of pple like nina simone and billie holiday. and voices like howlin wolf and muddy waters. me, that was music that was that was music for men and women. and i think peers were listening to what i felt was music for boys and girls. that's just how i felt about it. it makes everything eem trivial. >> brown: soon, he was following in his father's footsteps. >> the first band i was in, when i was 15 years old, covering soul music; coring booker t. and the m.g.s; playing, like, community halls or, like, ck gardens, like, you know, with

local punk kids. >> brown: and you were covering booker t... >> yeah, we were an odd sight. ♪ ♪ >> brown: fast forward to fast fame-- but it was five years before he felt ready to put out a second album. one on which this self-described "news junkie" poured out hiset anxis about the state of the world in his own country and abroad on songs like the title track, "wasteland, baby!" but remember-- it's still a love song.as ♪land baby, i'm in love i'in love with you ♪ >> the exclamation mark-- i the, is the wry smile, there's a lot of tongue in cheek to it, you kno >> brown: there's doom gloom, but with a wry smile. >> i think so. >> brown: how do you do the mix? >> i do think it's a hopeful record. i think it's, even though it's,

a lot of the context is a bit of doom and gloom, i think it's always looking for always lvlooking for the kind of lining, you know. it's just, just the warmth, the capacity that we all sll have r warmth, even in the worst scenario. >> brown: and at a time when artists churn out new music at breakneck speed, and celebrityn me-- and go-- quickly, hozier is determined to move at his own pace. >> i think for me, i feel like a bit of a dinosaur sometimes. sit down, sit down, with it-- with a guitar, and going away and writing music and then coming back and saying look what i've done. the challenge is to make sure that your-- that you have, hopefully, you have something that's worth saying. if people want to hear what people feel that is worth-- is worth saying, ten, 20 years, 30 years down the line. and, you know, that's, that'sly rehe challenge, is having a career and, growing with your music and having an audience at there come that come with you. m ♪ sweic playing in the dark ♪ brown: for the pbs newshour, i'm jeffrey brown in orlando, florida. w

♪ldn't know where to start areet music playing in the ♪ be still my foolish heart don't ruin this on me ♪ >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, anconic and that is the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff.ha a great weekend. thank you, and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> kevin.ev >>! >> kevin? >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> bnsf railway. >> consumer cellular. >> babbel. talanguage program that teaches spanish, french, ian, german, and more.

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tnight on kqed newsriment, a fight heats up over a for the homeless in san francisco. and the comeback of methamphtamine. emergency room visits in san francisco. and state law h makersp end conviction records. we begin with pg&e's over hall. it's replacesing most of its bord of directors. this afternd month -- they