mueller report. democrats are demanding more information while republicans insist it's time to move on. plus, this week gavin newsom mark his 100thay of california. and a pneering psychologist reveals how subtle biases can have a big effect on how we view and treat others. hello, and welwme to kqed oom. we begin with ongoing fallout from the mueller report. investigators laid out numerous incidents where the president believes the fbi, justice department, and top aides should folw his orders even when they may compromise a criminal investigation. house democrats have now issued a subpoena to compel the justice department to release to zbragr coness the full unredacted

report and underlying evidence by may 1st. it sets up a legal fight with attorney general william barr, who yesterday held a press conference before releasing a redacted version of the report. that terated his opinion there was no collusion or obstruction of justice by president trump.e but thert clearly states mueller's team could not reach a judgment onon obstrucand, therefore, does not, quote, exonerate him. ise now to discuss this congresswoman jackie speier of san mateo county. she joins us from palm rings, california. nice so have you back on the program. >> great to be with you. >> what do you think are theon mostrning findings in the mueller report? >> the mueller report was r a roadmap forongress because the department of justice guidance about not indicting ag sitt president. mueller's hands were literally tied. so he created a roadmap and was very clear in indicate to go

congress, youave got to take this ball and run with thit. re are serious, and i want to underscore serious,aims that are being made in that mueller nreport around obstruct of justice and the area thais less focused on is that first volume about t intervention by the russians and the counterintelligence efforts that the now being pursued by mueller camp by having these cases referred out. so there is 14 cases, two of which we know of, 12 of whiche do not. what is clear in his report, particularly in volume one, is the russians use every resource they had. they used every platform. they used social media. they used opportunities to meet with trump associates. and while you couldn't find a criminality, there was a willingness to work with russia

in terms of coordinating the campaign and the message both bi the rs and by the donald trump campaign. >> does that amount to collusion in your mind? and also the other issue is obstruction of justice. did you see examples in that report as well that you think amount to obstruction of justice? >> well, first of all, collusion is not a legal term. >> tight. >> waere a conspiracy to coordinate? i think there was conspira to coordinate, but then you have to establish was there a criminal intent. no, the intent was just to win the electi at all costs and using whatever resource they could. so he went as far as he could bc ing the internet research agency out of russia and a number of the principlals there >> you said your reading of the report is roadmap. it a roadmap to impeachment proceedings?

do you think there should be impeachment hearings? >> iat think t the judiciary committee needs to have special counsel mueller come in and question him in a very thoughtful manner th will, think, lead them to more paths to and if that conversation is, as i think it will be, i think starting an impeachment process would in order. you know, our democracy is at stake here. the president has spent two our law ermining enforcement agencies. he has criticized mueller. he has criticized the fbi. he has placed all kinds ofks roadblin the way of us doing our work. nd then he hires bill barr, who has become his spokesperson. not the attorney general, the highest law enfoement officer of the united states on behalf

of the american people, but president trump's mouthpiece. >> congresswoman -- >> and all of that is -- >> congressman eric swalwell has called for attorney general barr to resign. do you think hehould resign? >> i think that attorney general barr should be impeached. >> you do? >> i do. i actually think -- >> on what grounds? >> because he has so the american people. he did so intentionally. he made the decision that obstruction of justice did not take place. basically said that the president was fully innocent, and that is not what the special counsel mueller said. there is a reason why mr. mueller was nt that press conference yesterday. and i think it has a lot do with the fact that he does not see his work product the same way ge that attorneeral barr does. >> you sit on the houseom

intelligencettee, your committee and the house judiciary committee have called special counsel robert mueller to testify before you. hear from hope to mr. mueller that you don't already know at this point through this very long report? >> so there is 400 pages in the report. there is thousands of pages of background documentation that i thi he could help us in sifting through that. i think does have a perspective. i think hewi h share that perspective us with. i believe that his hands were tied because of the department of justice's guidance. i would also say that is notla that is guidance. and it probably is incumbent on congress now to look at this. nobody is above t law. mueller said that himself. nobody, not the presidente of t united states. so the fact that there is this guidance by the department of justice and you can't indict a sitting president is, i think,

suspect. nd i would also say that's why mpeachment becomes so important. >> impeachment of the president? >> correc >> okay. and i have to ask you this because you didn't directly answer whether you thinkch impent hearings should happen. you said give it a little more time, hear from mr.ueller first. if you don't hold an impeachment aring, with this report showing a culture of lying, a culture of deception, what message does this send to future presidents? does it suggest they, too, can engage in all sorts of questionable behavior as long as they feel there is no political will in congress to impeach them? >> so the question is, or these high crimesnd misdemeanors? do the crimes rise to that level? i thinkohat has be explored by the judiciary committee. that's why i would like them to start that proceeding. but to actually go through the articles and then have it voted on by t house is a much bigger step. i think you have to

preliminarily dohe review, have the discussions with theal spe counsel, and then look at the crimes that -- and crimes, you know, are different in a congressional setting. so we then need to look at it in shose terms. >> some democrhave suggested that there needs to be new laws so that we can hav future presidents play by the rules. what kinds of laws would those look like to prevent some of this kind of conduct from happening in the future? well, first and foremost, we have to require every presidential candidate to provide ten years of previous tax returns. the problem with donald trump is he has so many iolvements around the world that can in act influence his decision-making on behalf of the american people based on whether he has loans from saudi arabia or russian banks or whether he has business dealings in those

countries. we need a president who is tnking, first and foremost, about the american people and not his personal pocketbook. >> i ay have introduced legislation that requires 20 years of tax returns for any presidential candidate to participate in the electoral process. >> all right. congresswoman jackie speier joining us from palm springs, california. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. aside from the extraordinary events at the national level, this week also highlighted a benchmark in california politics. governor newsom's first 100 days in office which promises has he wed through on so far an what can we expect in the coming months. herer hoover institution fellow lonnie chen, college law professor david levine and washington cooperate for the "san franc she joins us via skype from the nation's capitol. welcome to you all.

what hase the scene like in washington, d.c. the past couple of days after t mueller report s released? >> one of the things you have to realize about the timing of this release is thame it c during the first week of lawmakers easter and passover recess. so the odd thing about it that the halls of capitol hill were largely empty when this report was delreered. somet even in the country. this is a popular time to take international trips. nancy pelosi was overseas inre nd doing sort of a tour rough parts of europe. we had to gt a lot of reaction in emails, in-box sort of statements. overall, i thinkat washington was really preparing for a report with a lot more redactions. ou saw a lot of prebuttle focusing on barr misconstruing the report in their eyes and preparing for this dogged fight to get the full a report underlying materials, and they haven't really changed the scri all this much.

you see a few democrats going after the president and actually presidential candidate elizabeth warren has said t ey should start impeachment proceedings. by and large, the democratic leadership still focusing on barr and getting the report. they are still saying that even though these redactions, which were i think a lot lighter than peep people expected, they still l nt the fthing. >> david, from your vantage point as a law professor, is there anything in the report that robert mueller could have justifiably coluded amounted to a crime but perhaps chose not toh >> i think's what he did with the obstruction material. there is so many instances that look like obstruction or attempted obstruction, and that what mr. mueller does is he says that, well, because of theco lications of being able to indict the president and if they were t that you wouldn't have an indictment, so the president couldn't fight back. they decided to away from that. and really the obstruction things, really is the situation that because mcgahn refused to r aides

do things or ignored directives that it is that mr. trump didn't commit obstruction of justice. the aides saved him. >> and basically president trump has declared a total victory as aof result the mueller report. is it a total victory for him? this lays out a really troubling case ofiulture of , a lot of deception. what do you make of it. >> a few things are clear. ngress and the democrats in congress will not stop. they are going to continue to investigate elements that come ou a of the mueller repor things that they have been thinking about for some time with respect to the president's personal financial dealings. now, more broadly for the president, i do think he cans read it victory for two reasons. one is nothing in the report ook this out of t realm of the political and put it into the realm of the in other words, all of his exposure is political exposure which i think he feels more equipped to handle. it allows him to continue to come back to themes that he knows is popular with his base.

no cloougs, no obstruction. he can talk about the things in an adversarial way that allow him to continue to pitch hisba and why they out to stiought t stick are him in the 2020 cycle. i think it is still a victory he >>can claim. ou mentioned about senator elizabeth warren calling for impechment proceedings. there is a growing call by her and other democrats for this to happen. could this divide the democratic party as w head intohe 2020 presidential election? >> i think it already is. i think the best news for the president and coming out of this report is i don't think there was anything in it that substantively change add lot of minds. in fact, a lot of what was inrt the repe sort of already knew because of the dogged investigative work of the press. in a weird way the ip, drip, drip of news saved him from the impact that this report would havead if we were all reading some of these details fresh for the first time. but you re seeing some democrats now more comfortable going forward with using the "i"

word in action. alexandria ocasio-cortez who is a fire bran now ine progressive left, she is leading articles of impeachment. elizabeth warren was the first out of the gate of the presidential candidates saying she believes impeachment proceedings should be initiated. the california philanthropist andiionaire who started an oregon pushing forri impeachmen. y is creating tension and democrats are really going to have some soul searching ing forward over how they think is the best way to play this very much away ware we are in the mid of a presidential cycle already. david, let's say, can he be indicted on some of the things that were laid out in this report after he leaves office? and what is the statute of limitations on those things? >> sure. the answer is yes, he could, and in fact i thk part what mr.

mueller did is that he explicitly says they were preserving everyday and they do stay one audience would be congress. another audience once mr. trump leaves office it may be that othe prosecutors will tak it up. on obstruction of justice it's v -year statu of limitations. >> he is re-elected, could he run out the clock? >> on the events in 2017, yes. if we are talking about him not getting out of office until 2025, yes, you could run the clock on those. if he does not win re-election, he would be vulnerable on obstruction of justice charges. >> oay. and attorney general barr was not busy only with the mueller report this week. he issued an order on asylum on tuesday. his order that he basically prevents certain asylum seekers from being released on bond while their cases are pending. how does the process currently work and what does this decision mean? >> well,s what it me is that for people who have entered

illegally, maning notthe standard ports of entry, that they would be held without bond. that's what mr. barris directing. he also said that the order won't take effect fr 90 days, in part so the officials can get ready, but also that's going to provide the opportunity for legal challenges. the idea that they can be held without bond, without any opportunity for etbond, is p surprising. the timing on these hearings is running a least 700 days now, and if we are going to start gathering up more and more and more people seeking asylum, those times are only going to stretch out further and further. >> and with this asylum ordera in it doesn't take affect for 90 days, but will this policy change anything in terms of how many people are trying to cross the border? >> i don't know that it will. i think fundamentally what it highlights is the inability of congress to act. this is a responsibility of the congress to act to reform the immi even on the asylum system or the asylum process specifically, reforms to the asylum process, the number of immigration judges

to process these cases. this is something that congress should beg, handl quite frankly, but what we're seeing now over the last several years is action that happenen immigration has been via executive action, whether it was the craigslist of the daca program by president obama, child separation issu president trump addressed early in his term and now the question of asylut' really i beyond the scope of what the executive should be dealing with. >> let's turn to state politics. this week marks governor gavin newsom's first 100 days in office. he put out an announcement, reigning in prescription drug costs, a moratorium on the death penalty. how would you assess his performance so far? >> one of the interesting things is how much he has managed to make himself a national figure already. you know, the really forward-leaning move to put the moratorium on the death penalty especially because you have amala harris running f president. anything he does like that immediately inserts itself into

the presideial debate and then the more national conversation among democrats. enyou know, we have s this from gavin newsom in his history. he was veryan forward lg on gay marriages, for example, and you have seen his ability to sort of inject things into the national democratic conversation. and so, you know, he also played conversation nal in a way he probably might wouldn't want to take back with the high-speed rail announcement that was fumbled and happened at the exact same time the green new deal was being discussed in washington and makes a push for high-speed rail. republica seized on it an example of why that wouldn't work. we soeen it play both ways. it fascinating howe has been able to make that national impact. >> high-speedail and he also warned cities and counties they could lose their road repair funding unless thelsmet state gor housing. then he backtracked on that, too, and said, y, we'll set it aside for four years. is he too qui to jump on some

of these ideas? >> being an active governor is a change fom what we haveeen the last several years. if you talk to sacramento iniders the first observation about him is how different the case and paidens of his administration is from jerry brown. think i as an activetempt to contrast. there is no penalty for him so far for oversteppi or no penalty for being ac. >> translator:. why not? where not pursue the priority policies. >> could it backfire? could to make it seem harder to tell what his main friars are when he is going so rapid fire? >> it could be. the death penalty, the focus on homelessness, health care, giving medi-cal to undocumented immigrants, those are things that i thinkin will put hi good stead whether he succeeds or not. >> and i think these are very popular in california.

esmetimes he is ahead of the curve. so if you think about his se here in california. >> david levine, lonnie chen with the hoovernitution and tal koppen in washington with the "san francisco chronicle." thank you all. e thanks. now to anamination of implicit bias. jennifer eberhart is social psychologist at stanford university and the 2014 recipient of the mcarthur genius grant. her wor her works the way unconscious bias can have profound effects in society. in her book she says we can all get better at spotting situationst t trigger stereotypes and shares her experiences how to fight them. joining me is professor jennifer eberhart. nice to havee. you h >> thank you for having me. >> you say in your book that racial conditioning starts young, even as young as 3 months old. how does that happen?

>> yeah. so researchers have found thatn in as young as 3 months of age are already showing a preference for faces of their own racial group. so it happens part because of how our brains are wired, but nortly because of the faces that we are exposed toally. to the extent that we live in segregated spaces, we are exposed to faces of our own racial group. and so our brain gets practiced up on that and then that affect us >> so with this inherent racial bias, you said it intensifies over time. what drives it to become stonger? >> so i don't know intensifies over time is the -- i think that, you know, as- when you are young and you're a child, you don't show maybe as much bias a you know, as an adult would. and part of that isd just k of trying to figure out sort of what the stereotypes are about the various groups.

somemes when you are young, you don't know what the social categories are, what the groups are. and so as you learn that and as you sort ofrn l more about how these various groups are positiod in the world, then you can experience, you know, andia express more >> we heard about how stereotypes can affect people are different races in criminal justice, for example, but also even inuc ion, right. you cite a study by social scientists that found ver interesting in your book. you say that study described a phenomenon called whitening the resume where evenu college nts who are looking for jobs nge respond to implicit as in interestingays. what are they doing? >> yeah wel they were sort of trying to downplay their racial group membership in order to, you of marketablesort on the job parmarket. so that would mean maybe white and so, you know, black

applicants, for example, instead of pudding, you know,al j you know, andrew jackson would write j. andrew jackson, something like that. same with asian applicants were whitening theire resès through their names and also through, you know, the kinds of actiheities that said they liked to engage in. they were more inclined to put down activities that awere more exciting like snoboarding. so imore relatable so people would think they could fit in. >> we know thatit impl bias affects a broad section of society from education, employment, the criminal justice system. despite the fact that many business executives and teachers and police officers don't view themselves as biased how do we begin to address that? >> yeah, i think onef sort big issue is just how we define what bias is. i thin that people have the sense of bias as people who are

burning crosses and people who are filled with hate and so forth, but when we talk about unconscious bias or implit bias we are talking about beliefs beliefs and these feelings that people have about social groups that can influence them, you know, even without their awareness. so u don't needs intention. you don't need motivation to, you know, dobad or evil things. it's just something that's there that these associations are built up over time. >> how do you teach people to a recognize thnd stop them from resulting in prejudicial behavior toeople from other ethnic or racial groups? >> one way to help people to recognize it is to help them to understand that we are not always acting on our biases. so there are certain conditions or there are certain situations that make bias more likely than others. so learning what thoc ditions are, i think, is pretty critical.

>> can you give anle exa >> so the one example is just we're more likely toct on bias when we make cities really quickly. so when we're forced to think fast we are more likely to rely on the sort of automatic associations that we have built up over time. and so that's going to potentially affect our >> so maybe step back? >> step back, slow down, yeah. and to take your time. sort of think things through. >> you worked a lot withr polic deents, including the oakland police department, and have they adopted some othe hese procedures and has it worked for them in measurable ways? yes. so since i have been there we've work with the department to to add a question, a simple question to the form that they complete when they make routine traffic stops, and that question -- >> what is the question? >> the question is, was this stop intelligence led, yes or no? is this a check box, yes or no.

they mean was the stop -- could you actually tie the specific individual to, you know, some, you know, particular crime. and st stopping -- slowing down again and slowing down an thinkiut that, that leads officers to think about whether the tstop is a high priority stp and all of tha >> not based on something prejudicial? xactly. that led to a hudrop, by 40%, in the number of stops made from one year to the next. >> what about this concept of colorblindness? not seeing color, not thinking about race, is that a solution? right. i think many people believe that it is. but tu research s give us pause on that, right, because the research shows that when you teach children to be colorblind or try be colorblind, we not only not see color, but we cannot see discrimination. so if we are trying to be colorblind because interested in, you know, furthering racial equality and

that kind of thing, then it's producing the opposite where we are, you know, more inclined to sort ogne inequality rather than combat it so it's no collusion solution w think it is. >> very interesting. so much more we could discuss. time.you for your jennifer eberhart. the new book is "bias d". thas it for us. as always find more of our cerage a kqed.org/newsroom. thank you for joining us.

robert: theer mueeport shines a bright light on the president's conduct. i'm robert costa. president trump claims victory and continues to attack the mueller report calling it crazy, but democrats say, hold on. >> the special couple made clear he did not exonerate the president and the congress hast hold the president accountable. >> thettorney germ and special counsel a cled to testify as a new political battle begins. we cover itxt all, ne announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by --