robert: mueller finally speaks out, but what now? i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." robert mueller defends his report and his decisions. >> if we had had confidence that the president carly didot commit a crime we would have said so. we did not however make a determination as to whether them president didt a crime. >> there's no crime. there was no charge because he had no information. >> impeachment calls grow louder but speaker pelosi won't be pushed. >> many constituents want to impeach the president, but we rnt to do what is right and what getsults. robert: and the president launches trade war with mexico, next. ♪ announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by --

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patricia you win committed to bridging cultural differences. and by contributions to yo pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. once again from washington, moderator robert costa. robert: robert mueller's investigation is complete. he formerly shuttered the special council's office this week, but the debate over his conclusions continues inside the justice department, on capitol hillnd across the nation. mr. mueller after years of silence stepped forward on wednesday to defend his team's work and offered what he hopes are his final remarks on this front. >> rsian intelligence officer who are part of the russian military launched a concert attack on our political system. the releases were design and timed to interfere with our election and to damage a

presidential candidate. robert: on president trump in possib obstruction of justice, he said this -- >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. we did not however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime. robert: the predent fired back. >> i think he is a total, conflicted person. i think mueller is a true never trumper. >> attorney general bill barr raised questions about mueller's legal analysis telling cbs news that hedisagreed with a lot of it." he added that it did not rlect the department's view. jointing me tonight yamiche alcindor for the pbs newshour. devlin barrett, "washington post." susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today." and gerry seib executive editor

for the washingtonal jou susan, what was most significant about mr. mueller's statement? >> first of all that he spoke a all. for two years, mueller had been this blank canvas on which both people projected their hopes and their fierce about where this investigation will lead. and he finally spoke. that's very compelling because he's never done it before. but his message was interesting in that it s one of -- folks, i'm done here. whatever you decide to do is up to you now. you know, this investigation has beenort of two roads for a long time, a legal criminal investigation, and then the political road. i think those twoow roads have merged. and mueller is saying i'm not driving further down the road. whatever happens will be on the political role. i don't know that congress will

nswer.hat for as robert: did he offer any clarity on o -- on obstruction of justus. >> he sin -- insists he won't consider the question. na's the basic contradiction of work because why do you investigate the president if not to reach a decision in that report? he beliefs that justice department policy does not permit him to reach a decision on that. house democrats would like him to reach a decion because that would help their cause. but what he laid thought week was a very emphatic, i'm not going there and you can't make me. obert: susan, who is the audience for mr. mueller? susan: i think the audience -- of course, we were all consumed. had a message directed at americans acro the country that got less attention. he started with it and in just

nine minutes. he started and finishe by talking about russian meddling. not about president trump's role, aut russia' role. and the fact is, the fact that that has gotten not -- hasn't been as infmmatory as iteems as it should be is remarkable ecause the impabble of russian meddling in our election which is going to continue has much moreea faring long standing consequences than even president trump. robe: and it's so important -- will congress act on russian meddling? susan: the house has s passee legs aimed at -- legislatit aimed that. but there hasn't been a concerted national campaign to haen our elections systems that you would have expected. >> i think one of the interesting unobserved part is that this increase the pressure on mitch mcconnell toove legislation to stop interference

by the russians. he'sy gotten a by sitting on it for months and months. but one of the things that bob mueller wanted to do is turnp the heat on congress to act in that sense. bob mueller seemed conflicted on the obstruction of justice. there was a huge wink involved there. which is toay we didn't find that the president didn't find obstruction of justice and now it's time for others to do something about it. now it's your turn as you said. and that was the other takeaway from it. the third point iould make is that the president was pretty conflicted too because he wants to say bob mueller exonerated me, complete exonerated. oh, by the way, he was a never trumper and deeply con flibblingted. either he's- deeply conflicted. either he's honorable or >>conflicted. ow is he playing at the white house? inside the west wing? what's the mood? yamiche: it's one of president

trump stilleeling angry at the fact that the mueller investigation eve happened. we saw his tweet this week, i had nothing to do with russia helpin me win the election. and quickly backtracked. that's not what i meant. i won it by myself. bob mueller says we should reallye concerned about the elections susan is really right when you think about he started and endedh his message w that. that was a message to the american people. political from the point of view, i think if you look deeply at what robert muelleraid, there was for democrats he was saying this report is my testimony. i tak that to mean, democrats i know you're going to try to do oversight. if i have to come to congress, i'm notooing t go beyond report. robert: is he going to go to congress based on youron conversaith house democrats? >> i'm not sure. i think if you listen, adam schiff from the house intelligence community he sounds like he might subpoena mueller.

but jerry nadler says what aoi you to do, are you going to subpoena mueller? i heard muchdf what i wan to hear. he basically stopped at that point. i will say if you're a publican listening to b mueller, you have to make it very clear that he said if i thought i could the president i would have. i think that's the political message to republicans. he's making it crystal clear, i'm not giving him a pass. i'm not exonerating him which is what the president has been saying over and over again. and robert mueller is saying that's not what i'm saying. bert: your d.o.j. sources expect him to go to capitol hill even to he -- even though he wants this to be his final word. >> i think part of the message is that he will be a hostile witness. it's a question for the house democrats -- which is worse. robert: how does bill barr handlet? >> mueller has said he doesn't want to go. first of all, mueller is not a

d.o.j. employer. barr can't make him do anything. it a conversation between mueller and nadler and some others in the house. and think the challenge for democrats is, do you want hostile witness or no witness? which is better/worse forhat you're trying to accomplish which is to keep public pressure on the president and give these investigations some oxygen and some fuel. one of -- one of the things that has been so annoying is that he says closed case but he doesn't give the kind of crisp answer that would say yes, you should impeach. which is the message that democrats heard but ts hat exactly he said. >> he's debating the attorney general about the meaning of his own report. >> i don't think he wanted to do this at off. i think heanted to go away without saying a word.

it's ironic wherepl most p run toward a television camera and mueller runs away as fast as he can. he felt he had to close the book in some fason and this is the fashion by which he did it. robert: the house democrats want to openoo the a growing number of them on the question of impeachment. what are the pressures? >> the pressure is that there's still a minority that still want to impeach the predent. t they are loud and they're people that are savvy with the media. they are people who have a lot of energy behind them. and by the way, you have now democrat who are running for president who are more and more -- them are saying we should look into impeaement and should impeach. llere's this idea that nancy pelosi she sas a handle on her caucus as of today. when democrats comes back and ae congress comes back that could be different story. robert: what's your read on speaker pelosi?

susan: he's in a bind. 55 house democrat who is support er an impeachment, 'em paneling anea iment committee or starting an impeachment of some sort. but she got 51 democrat who is flipped seats. there is demo overlap between -r is no overlap between those two seats, they are entily separate from the 55 democrat who is support some kind of impeople ych inquiry. impeachment is risky for the present, but risky for democrats who got elected regained control wit a promise to deal with things like health care. robert: is i a risky business for pelosi? >> it's risky business. they look at their districts and say people areoing to be mad if we move to impeachment that's not a very usefu strategy from our point of view.

there's another risk involved, by the way, and i wrote a column saying at the top, maybe president trump wants president trump to impeachment. i thought i was being facetious. i think nancy pelosi think this is way too. what would happen? heeould b impeached by democrats in the house. he would not be convicted in th senate he could then say, i was vindicated and the democrats overreach and spent their time in this rather than dealing with the country. robert: don mcgahn could be in the battle. is there more on the intent front? >> it's not just mueller who is the blematic witness for house democrats or a nonexistent witness for them. it mcgahn a number of former white house officials that they do not want 100 miles of a hearing room.

you know the democrats have approached the problem with the notion ow, you k we need a high profile hearing if it's mueller or mcgann or someone else - we need mcgahn oromeone else, we need live tv. they're searching for a witigss. and now they don't have one. robert: to gerry's qstion, does the white house want impeachment proceedings for 20? yamiche: they are having meetings about ieachment. white house aides have been telling us that it might help him win back the house. i've been talking to sources inside therump campaign and they say this would help turn out our voters. we want them to come. d what better message than to say they're still mad of 2016 and they're trying to take him out of office for 2020.

that's what nancy pelosi is looking at and why she's proceeding so cautiously. robert: are there any cracks. we saw representative amash. >> he duds not represent a crack. he's a principled libertarian member ofo congress peaks only for himself. it's not as though -- it' not like kevin mcyarty announced he's in favor of impeachment. that doesn't mean you could not possibly have se erosion of republicans if you had some big disclosure. they have stuck with president trump for the past two years. thete wouse cannot confident that a mitt romney, for instance, wouldn't something that made him support taking action. c >> you imagine 20 republican senators voting to convict? >> no. >> nancy pelosi saysot anr thing. she talk about how impeachment

would be very divisive. she's sincere in that. and she's certainly right. that would e beraordinary divisive. that's in our mind as she does the calculus in this question. >> you look at the country, politics has become so triba take any event, robert mueller's statement or what president trump is tweeting or what nancy pe lesley:losi is saying -- pelos and if you talk to republicans it's a different story than democrats. we know this gins up the president's base but notac imng a president who many of the most reliable democratic voters ought to be impeached is -- could hold down a democratic turnout. it could be a probl for democrats in 2020 as well. robert: final question on this issue. whether the president gets impeached could he still face charges as e? leaves off

>> it's something that mueller says very specifically in the report. it's a scenario that could happen. i think that's still a difficult and -- and high hurdle politically and legally. but yeah, that's definitely on the table in terms of a legal possibility down the road. >> let's turn to trade. president trump has threatened to impose new tariffs on mexico with the goal of having mexico be more aggressive on immigrliion. some repns slam the move as a misuse of presidential tariff authority. "the wall street journal" reported that bob lightaweser also objected to the plan that it could jeopardize the trade agreement. what does this mean for u.s. consums? >> mexico is the second largest providor of imports. there are all kinds of stuff that comes in.

it's harmful to the a industry. price of cars goes up. price of mexican produce at t restaurant or the grocery store goes up. the appliance that you might buy might have been made in mexico. ther lot of impact for consumers. there's potential follow-up on impact if this actually happens and mexico respondy pulling tariffs then that's going to affect farmers. e footnote, this is not happening immediately. the president has said, i wpuil these on effective june 10th if mexico -- robert: 5% starting june 10th. then 5% in addition -- gerald: 5% every month. there's something to allow president trump to back-off. we've seen this in the china trade dispute. there's a threat, a panic, the presiden puts a deadline and hea i succeeded and he backs

off. >> why did he act now? >> i don't know if i can answer that. but this has been athhite house 's been trying to make a case that there's a crisis on the border and has bn using changes in asylum. i will say this, i was in the call with white house officials and one of the key questions asked,ell, what can mexico do to make sure these tariffs don't happen? there were no clear goal posts from the white house. so you haveer clear punitive action. it's going to be this date and this date. but the don't say if border apprehensions goown 5% then we'll pull that back. so what youave i a vague successful goal, a vague goal for success, and mexico could pretty much do anything andtr p can say, i'll move or we'll take this away. or he could say, they didn't do enough, we will go to 25%.su

n: the president hasone threats and not done them. he's oft done them at a moment where we're talking about it. what are we a talkut this week? the mueller's announcement and trying to shield the president from trying to shield this ship in t japant is named the u.s.s. mccain. those are stories in which he was not getting a lot ofer defe we're talking about trade on an issue he would like us to talk about. robert: we've seen h use controversial powers, very conversationable even among republicans and going into the national security area. >> one of the great tngs about politics or maybe one of the worst things about politic is that your view of executive power depends o who happens to be the executive at the time. there'shis battle with how much authority the president has

on a whole number of fronts. barr helps trump in a number of ways. one of the ways that you've seen him, you know, become very close to trump very i quick a way a lot of other cabinet officials have struggled to do is that trump likes his attorney general already. and a lot of what barr is doing is to the benefit of the president. and for democrats they see tha as, you know, very dangerous and alarming and trump finally feels he has a real defender, a real lawyer in the justice department. robert: does this upend the new version of nafta that sits on nancy pelosi's hands as she sits on capitol hill? >> that's one of r thesons why his top aid --ay advisors don't do that. because this sort of things stirs up national sentiment which is very close to the surface in mexico.

there's a chance that the legislature says nope, we're not going to do any dealsith the u.s. and here it gives the democrats an excuse to vote against a trade agreement they're not sure they like a it creates a political problem that is very close to the pres>>ent's heart. appreciate you being here on a friday night. our conrsation will continu on the "washington week" extra. watch it. you can stream it on our website,r facebook. i'm robert costa. have a great weekend. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.visit ncicap.org]

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