♪ robert: president trump once again tes on immigration. but census questions remain unanswered. i'm robert costa. welcome to "washington week." ♪ >> president trump pays tribute to the military and calls for unity following a week of controversy over his fourth of july plans. president trump: we are one people chasing one dream and one magnificent destiny. >> washington remains divided and on edge about the 2020 census. and the president figh to include a citizenship question.n prestrump: i think it's very important to find out if someone is a citizen asto oppos n illegal. >> this as a federal watchdog shines a light on troubling conditions at the border. an protestals cfor my grant

to be shut ters down. the consequences of questions and answered, next. ♪ >> this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- ♪ >> so happy. >> oh. >> whatever they went through en theythrough together. >> welcome, guys. >> life well plan seesmed what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. >> babel, a real-life conversation program that teach nuss languages such as spanish, french, german and more.

available as an app or online. more information on babel.com. >> additional funding is provided by kyu and pricia yuen, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> once again, from washington, moderator robert cost tasm robert: thank you for joining us on this july 4 holiday weekend. the trump administration phed ahead wits census efforts on friday which have alarmedvo tes for migrants and rallied his political base. but the inclusion of a citizenship question remains unsettled. the latest moveing dis after president trump broke with his administration's lawyers and urged a standoff came in a friday filing in a maryland court where justice department ladmers said theistration is pursuing a citizenship

question. president trump also told reporters that he's considering an executive order to tagn that citizenship question even as the census is nowpreing ted. president trump:de an an addition on. we can start the printing now and maybe do an addendum after we get a positive decision. we're working on a lot of things including an executive order. robert: ginning me, peter baker for "the new york times." m nana was, national correspondent for the pbs news hour. shawna thomas, for vice news. and brian bennett,hi house correspondent for "time" magazine. peter, we have the census here from 2010, it's a piece of paper but also a broader debate about the country, about its future. why doe it mat her peter: it sounds like the wonkiest debate in washingn hist i whether one question

should be on a piece of paper. why ist fundamental? it's about power and money. the reason it's about power and money is becse we divide america up into districts based on this district of columbia yumet. paced on how people respond to cissen. -- to thissus. whether eff more money or less moy depends on how many people are said to live in your community. people won't answer the -- won't answer the census because they're afraid of the citizenship question. the president said for the first time something very relegaling, for the first time he seemed to acknowledge that he wantshi citize to be the basis for redistricting. right now it's based on total population. how many people live in a community, whether citizens or not. he seed to suggest thate thinks it ought to be based on citizenship. which would radicly change the balance of pow for the this country. robert: am in a, you report -m in a, you report on -- amna,

you rerrt on the day. peter said how this would stop some people participating in the census. amna: i think the possibility of question like this which we haven't had iince 195n this country tsaoed a little discontent, some fear, some skepticism as well, there's always been a little bit of that among recently arrived immigrants. aboutwi engagin federal authorities. how is this going to be used. there was a lot of that when this was raised particularlyf because the anti-imgrant language the president ran on, campaigned h on, and continued. some are saying even though the question may o may not be added to the census, the damage may be done. people who may be legally hte, ust people who are here as undocumented residents, people who ar legally here, maybe seeking citizenship, may be a lile reluctant to participate anyway.

ship even the plaintiffs in their filings the last couple of days mentioned this thing aboute if thedent tweets what he tweeted out where they had to revorse course and say we are going to try to get the question in, that could just from a media perspective cause more fear in those. communiti people will start to believe, even if the question isn't on that piece o per, that they think it's there. that -- even hhat cane a chilling effect on our ability to count the entire country. robert: and the census experts a have said >> what they did is they compared it to what's known as the american community survey, something that goes out e dry year as a portion, like a small mini censust t uses algorithms and math and thingsni understand to project how many people are out there they do put a citizenship question on there. they compare that data, and say we think the reason less people respond here is because of this question.hy robert: is the president

doing this brian? you sat down with president trump in the oval office for a n "time" mag cover story. is this all about 2020, seizing onis signature issue? brian: there's definitely a this.cal element to the president does best with his base and supporters when he looks like he's fishting for es that he campaigned on. one of the signature issues is more restricve immigration policies. by picking which fight and looking like he's going to take every step he possibly can to get this qstion on the census, he's showing his base he's willing to fight for what he campaigned on that polls very well. it also keeps the issue in the headlines which his campaign is usin recruit new people and build up their voter roles. robert: what about the executive border idea? chief justice roberts said they need a bter rationale to get the court's support. the president is talking about . executive act is that a reality, legally and

politically? peter: i'm not sure why it would be different if the president signed the order as opposed to his cabinet, except it does make a difference in terms of time, he administrative process. there are things the commerce department, the census bureau have to go throw add question that might not be apublic fble the president signs an executive order. if they get a quick ruling from the supreme court, the argument would be they could move faster off his order. it also presumably imputes his power more rm. goeso directlye president's article ii power under the constitution, which he's chief of the executive branch, not the commerce secretary, not the census bureau that might give it more authority with justices who care abo executive authority. shawna: they will go to court cain. they're still irt without it. even if he has an techtive order, someone wl sue thavepls what happens with almost all his executive orders. they may fast track it. they fast tracked this because the government said it needed to

start printing in july. robert: you say they'll keep sue, in part this is because critics of the president's position say the rationa has been underscored by scored ed from computer files from a republican strategist, the late thomas hoffler who died last summer. his estranged daughter found hard drives who said i f republicans moved on the census in this way it would help them stpolitically. eeling aamong the president's critics who are in court that the -- shawna: it's for discriminatory purposes. that is how they feel. stice john roberts didn't allow -- basically, the government has already said, or the couve sort of said we don't totally know if we aee with that rationale. that's not why john roberts sent this back. but i does seem the judge in maryland now is saying we can go into scory about wheth it is discriminatory or not. that's already part of the case. robert: you look at the citizenship question, iwas

included 50, 60 years ago in the census bureau in the whole document. what do we know about why it was ken off? there's reporting from nbc that it was because they wanted to make sureeople martiesated. amna: that's right. the goal -- to peter's point originally, this is how we figure out where the mungos. wherever the mungo the power follows. america is a completely different country today than it was backn i 1950678 they recognized that and decide participation was moremportant th determining citizenship at the time. that's why the a.c.s. filled in onthe blank some of the citizenship questions. i don't want to get lost in the conversation that the administration's original rationale for putting that in, stated they publicly from the commerce secretary on down was this will help us enforce the v rights act. that's why we're including this. we want to protect minorities. robert: the chief justice said hat was contrived. commerce secretary wilbur ross is he on thin ice with president

trump? peter: president trump was asked that and the president said no, he's comfortable with wilbur ross. robert: do you believe that? peter: i don't believe it. i think this causes a rift between the two o t them,y've been at odds before when wilbur ross came up with some b line headline for trump. this creates another strain. i'm sure there f aling from trump that wilbur ross could have given many differentpl ations for why they were going forward with this question. one that would hold up bet for the court. robert: wasn't he just following the law? boip trying to -- prian: trying to find something that would stand uor the court. it seemed transparent on its face. didn't nd, you know, the lost files from the republican consultant to understand that there is a potential partisan motivation here. both parties try to game the ystem as best they can for redistricting exercises, we're

about to have a once a decade count that will influence -- influence who controls the districts an rewritethe districts for the next 10 years. of course a lot is at stake here. bert: what can democrats do? what are the option here? shawna: there is s talk, though i don't think this would get through the senate that you uld actually mayberite a law and say the desenall census doesn't include the citizenship question. but short of that, this is going to have to play out in cots. robert: let's stick with immigration. a report by the homeland security department inspector general warned of dangerous overcrowding a detention cent thornse southern border. new york congresswoman alexandria ocasio cortez and other democratic lawmakers visited two detention centers in texas this week and tked about the lack of food and showers and parents being separated -- t separated frir children. >> there's abuse in these facilities. there's abuse. this is them on their bestnd behavior they put them in a

room with no running water. robert: president trump defended the border patrol on friday. president trump: the border patrol did not train to be doctors and nurses and janitors. that's not what they trained to be. they trained to be border patrol. th's what they're ding. they're ding a phenomenal job. robert: does the i.'s report back up your reporting amna? u've been at these. amna: 100%. what they were able to publish in pictures is what i s ground, i was in detention centers in arizona earlier this what i've heard from border patrol and other sources along the border too. it's been this way w for ale and getting worse. i think what's most striking and i've covered immigration here for many years and also in other countries. i've seen howt's handled, especially when eff refugee populatis streaming across borders in unprecedented wave the language and mission statement coming from the highest levelsas very little to do with how to protect people

and better process an serve them. it has everything to do with trying to keep people out. an not sending the funds and resources where they're needed you hear that fm border patrol too you hear the president echoing their concerns, this is not my job. we're using operational budget to buy diapers and baby formula and kids' clothing to give to these people and they are not resoced for it. these detention centers are not built for this, it's not getting s y better. robert: whath the mixed messages on this front from the president? a few days ago he said the detention center would be a deterrent from people coming to the country. now he calls them nice. boip he wants -ia he wants them to be a deterrent. when president trump came into office they wanted to try to hold people longer. wthis previousln families came into the country and detentionll centers were they'd be released with a court orter to appear. so now there just packing people into these detention centers and the conditions we have seen are terrible and

unhealthy. so what's the president doing? he has one policy which is a policy of deterrence. he's hoping that peopl will get a message to not come. which if you look at the numbers is not working. and then on the other se, he doesn't want to get blamed for it. so h there's been a long pattern of doing. this but nothing on the scale trump administration. shawna: a lot of people try to make the comparison to what happened in 2014, 213 in the obama administration and a lot m of unanied minors. some of those the pictures we see now look like those picture bus the obama administration was like, ok, one they down when it comes to holding people too long. we need to send money to centrav america, we e to figure something out there. and two, they weren't putting it policies tade it worse. so part of the problem here, c.b.p. is not designed to hold people for more than 72 part of the problem especially with children is that h.h.s. t

facilitiy're supposed to go to are overwhelmed as well. part of the reason they're overwhelmed is becau government has made it, even though this is starting to change, a little harder f sponstors actually like claim these kids. so then that causes a backup at c.b.p. as well. robert: the house judiciarynd oversight committees anouned hearings into these detention centers next week. will aheinistration feel pressure about the centers? robert: i think they feel pressure but there's two sides of pressur if you're working at the d.h.s., the pressure you've been feeling the last few months rom the president to be tougher, not softer. d while this is obviously an optics problem as well as a hunitarian problem and a problem on the ground with real people, if you're looking at whether you're going to keep your job with d.h.s., the t sket cess so far has not been telling the president no we can't do that. no, te needo do somethingt. differ that's been the path out the door. so i think that it's goinga to e ough couple of weekers in people who are trying to deal with this issue.

money son the way. it's now been approved by t president and by congress. it'll take a while until it startsou cycling t system. in the meantime you'll see more of these pictures, more of this debate. enbert: will people keep coming up fromal america? you were on the veans way la border for pbs news hour, what' driving them to come here at this moment? amna: that's a very specific situation. the country has been in a fee fall for years. s i on the brazilian side of the border where they've started to receive, inhe last two years, a record number of imgrants. y y different country, v different circumstances but i will say. this it was remarkable to see the difference in huh the brazilian government which by all account, etwo leaders consider similar, he's considered the trump of theut tropics, they have understooded -- they have funded an entire effort there to say ok uric folks are fleeing something that is legitimate, we understand you are going to come reegardless. we're going to do the best job we can in receiving you and

processing you humanely things as simple as having water available for people at their will. c.b.p. does not have that. we don't have that in the u.s. and doesn't look like we'll have that any time soon. robert: beyond the issues of my granscome, there are new tengs on social media. pro publy ka found a facebook page, they were joking about deaths, offensive photos of reesentative ocasio corte the acting second retear of .h.s. called it disturbing and inexcusable. but there are all these issues from the census to the facebook posts to what's happeni on the ound that are inflaming the situation. amna: and it just points to the division that currently is in this country. shawnak i the c.b.p. posts, it's one of those things where you know that they didn't nd for that to become public. it is improper. but also, i will say, they're

undern enormous amount of essure and it seemed bit like offensively blowing off steam. which all of us have done at me point or another. bu underscores the amount of pressure these people aret - un robert: despite the on again, off again rain crowds gathered on thel natioll on the fourth of july to hear president trump pay tribute to american acheements since the revolution. the speech came after a week of debate over the military presence at the event and the way taxpayer funds were used. president trump: as long as we stay true to our founders, as long as we remember our great history, as long as we never, ev f stop fightin a better future, then there will be nothing that a can can not do. [applause] robert: as "the washington post" architecture critic philip kenicut t-noted the mall is thanmentally a kisk rather military space, centered with

the monoyoument to president lincoln. the president gave a standard, patriotic speech on the fourth of july. but it was preceded by a lot of debate over those tanksn the mall, the military's involvement. what was the white house's plan all along? robert: president trumpmi wantea tary parade. he wanted to take a holiday and ve some sort of commemoration of the american military.er i was in france in 2017 when president trump satn and saw the bastille day parade. for two hoirssthaw etanks and military formations come by. and he absolutel loved it and wanted to do something like that here. what was interesting was the way that the president -- was the way president trump, t things, one, he didn't do what we all pected him to do, which was to politicize the speech. he's done that beforel on for occasions where he attacked political enemies or did other things that were beyond the usual decorum for situations

like that. the other thing that was interesting though was he was able to still make himself the nter of the event. so at bastille day you didn't have the frenchnt presi narrating the entire event. in this situation, you had t trump speaking for nearly an hour, narrating the histories of this different military branche and when there were flyovers talking about them. he was still able to make himself the cent over a military parade. robert: the national park service had to divert million in fees to support this and we're trying to figurout how much the pentagon spent. does the administration pay a cost or because of the way it unfolded without much drama in his rhetoric, does it fade away? amna the lack of transparency is nothing new. where much we learn about the money came from, what was spent, may come out in the weeks to follow t what was unsurprising about the entire

event was thatf all the titles that president trump holds in his office,ommand for the ief has been the one that he's really, really embraced. and for trump, the american narrative that he sells and that e runs on and that constantly sort of celebrates very publicly has always d revolved aro the military. yes it's a core part of his constituency as well but it is for him the story of american power. it's american might and american strength and that's what we saw last night. robert: i thought about you, pete e, you ask asked the esident about the g-20 about western liberalism. what did you learn about theen pres through this snevpbt as a student of the presidency? peter: i think in some way it's what we lea about ourselves. i think this is -- to borrow shawna's point about who we are and divisions i if you're a trump supporter you say what's wrong with thi it was the president sporte celebratasg.

he didn'tfor re-election vote, zrnt a maga hat on he talked about our cultural history, civil rights leade suffragist, and military. what's wrong with that? if you're not somebody that supports preside trump you saw like north korea reducks. you s a -- redux. u saw something the president had to make it about himself, a narcissistic exercise. eresting found it i especially as a television news producer that he wanted the backdrop of the lincoln memorial and he didn't get that because he put people behind him. and that -- i was curious about why they did that. if you want to be the center attention and want to tell this american story, you want to be compared to abraham lincoln. so it ended up being, i think, just kind of another normal fourth of july day and in some ways because all of this led up

to, all of this consternation about what does thisean? at is he doing? why is he celebrating tanks and things like that?e and then ended up actually being presidential yesterday. so he won all o all those levels. in the leadup and also in nail, being kind of boring. l robert: i feee we had a strong day on friday at the white house because of jobsns y were brian: strong jobs numbers came out after a couple of months where jobsumbers seemed to be softening. they'll be out trying to trumpet that a trumpet the economy, an issue he loves to step on even when his advisors tell him not to talk about it. robert: does it mean the trade war is other or at least the fears about it ruining the economy or hurting the economy? rip it may embolden him on the china talks. he was worried about a softening economy might have made him offer more conce oion osr accept less than he was demanding. now he may feel like he's got win at his back. all three markets had record day

this is week. there were some signs on the horizon. the trade deficit is up, not down. but for the most part he's feeling ood about the economy. robert: he's feeling good about e economy. but justin ammash of michigan, we'll get to this more in the webcast, he left the republican party. shawna: he dju. in ammash, a tea partyier, said the republicans are not doing their j they need to keep the president in check. robert: we'll talk about that more. up next on the washington week extra, we'll discuss the debates and how they're influencing the race for the democrac debates. watch every friday. i'm robert cost tark enjoy the weekend. [captioning performed by thein national captiinstitute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

>> corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by -- >> babel, a language program that teaches real life conversations in a new language, such as spanish, french, german, italian, and more. 1 babel'to 15-minute lessons e available as an app or online. manufacturer information on babel.com. >> financial s fvicesm raymond james. additional funding is provided by -- kyu and patricia yugn th the yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural communities. our the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributns to your p station from viewers like you. thank you. >> you're watching p

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