on "kqed newsroom," democratic presidential candidates faced off again this wee but this time the stakes were higher and attacks fiercer between moderates and ogressives. to finstories and answers to the crisis on our streets. plus, a new report reveals the hidden costs of childcare and who ends up paying the price. hello and welcome to "kqed newsroom." i'm marisa lagos. we bur show with the democratic debates. 20 democratic candidates took the debatstage in detroit over two nights, sparring over healthcare, immigration, and race. on the first night, us senators bernie sanders and elizabeth warren faced off against more moderate candidates over their plans to remake the american healthce system. and on night two, us senator kamala harris and former vice president joe biden

found themselves on the defensive. but with six months until the iowa caucuses, it's unclear whether the debates changed the dynamic in the crowded field. joininme now to discuss this are the president of democracin color and founder of she the people, aimee allison, and joinngg us via phone from loses, la times staff reporter tyrone beason. thanks t of you. beason: you're welcome. lagos: so, tyrone, i want to start with you. you've been in michigan. we've now seen two rounds of debates, 20 candidates. where do you thinkgs stand w after this most recent round? beason: i think more uncertainty. the democrats spent a lot of time onstag both tuesday and wednesday nights tryidefine the democratic party and, obviously, trying to chip away a little bit at joe biden's front-runner status. but a lot of the discussion focused on of those core issues -- healthcare, immigration, how to restore the middle class -- but i'm not so sure that it settled anything.

think joe biden comes out of it still in the lead, more or less, among thcandidates. but there was quite a lot of vigorous discussion around healthcare and issues that people are talkinabout around the country without a lot of resolution. people seem to be pretty ardent in their positions ow to approach reforming the healthcare system or how to improve obamacare and how to bring back the middle class, beason: ...how to work on immigration -- all those issues. s: aimee, let's talk about one particular candidate -- kamala harris, obviously from california. you've known her a long time. how do you think sheid? we saw her really come under attack, both from joe but also representative tulsi gabbard of hawaii went after her utfor her record as a pros. allison: it was something to see two women of color on the split screen, and one was, you know, one of the front-runners defending her record as aenator, and the other one this upstart congresswoman -- both womenlor. the significance of that historically is that women of color are 25% of the democratic base.

it's a very, very powerful voting block. i thought kamala harris had to defend her record. i th k there's more opportuniin , and i think part of what voters -- at leastoromen of color that iwith every day -- are looking for is an opportunity for her to explain in more detail her record i mean, we're looking for authenticity, vulnerability. it's -- it's, you know, kind of leading with the heart. but i haan always said that anydate, including kamala harris, is gonna have to do three things to be successful in this primary. the first is take a bold stand for racial justice, which is why she shot up in the polls after thfirst debate. two, she has to show clear moral leadership in the face of trump and his misdeeds. and, three, actually organize a multiracl coalition in the states she needs to win. onmavery box, she's actuallyn, and so i think she comwe out of this debate thi

still as a front-runner and still strong. lagos: tyrone, you know, you spent time in flint, michigan, before this debate talking to a community that's really been beset by economic, environmental challenges. what did people there say about what they wanted toteear from these candi beason: voters in flint, michigan -- which is still dealing with a lot of crisis. for most of us, we think the water crisis was five years ago. lagos: right. beason: i was hurch two mondays ago where hundreds of people were lined up from early in the morning until the afternoon, when the truckly arrived, to get free bottled water. they don't trust the water, they don't trust public officials who are reassuring them that the water is increasingly safer to drink, you know, with filtration. there's a real distrust, i think, of the instituti of governm, and people told me again and agai-- when i asked them whether or not they want to drink their water, they answered with, "i don't trust the government." and i think that that's -- the presidential candidates are go ia have to be able to to the distrust the people have of government in places like flint

that have had so many problems over a couple of generations leup to the water crisis and other issues. and how you rebuild that trust and that relationship is gonna be key. i have to say that in flint, when i asked peoplo they we, no one was willing to tell me that they were -- that they had a favorite. kamala harris didn't come up. cory booker really didn't come up. people know joe biden, they know bernie sanders, those were natural, you know, names for people to mention, but these candidates still have a sht of work to do to estab that they are different from the politicians and other public officials that they've become accustomed to. lagos: well, and aimee, i think tyrone brings up a good point, which is that, you know, i think trump did tap into that distrust. whether or not you think that, you know, fulfilled the promises he made is one thing. but i'm curious if you think you heard the candidates speak to any of the issues we're hearing tyrone talk about. allison: well, it's witeresting that marianniamson was the candidate who brought up the water in flint and that she'd lived in a wealthy suburb,

and she said it would've never happened there. she made clear lagos: she also had a great answer on reparations. allison: i'm saying -- on reparations. she was the candidate tiearest about racial j -- e, as a white woman, taking a stand and articulating why it was important, but laying bare the fact that race has to be a part of every conversation the environment, education, healthcare. all these issues have to have a ns of race. and look, this debate this week took place in an environment where trump is directly attacking a black congressman -- cummin. in fact, just today tweeted kind of a "ha, ha, ha, he got his house r type thing. and in the wake of him telling elected congresswomen of color to go back to some -- somewhere, you kw. lagos: where they didn't come from. allison: these racist attacks. u a recent poll said, ow, the majority of americans think he's a racist. so for democrats on that stage, first night and the second,

around race, to acknowledge it, is n only just bad politics, but it's not a winning -- it's not a winning approach. black voters, i will say -- i've been saying it for months -- are one out of four democrats, black women being the majority of those. reif the candidates are noy to talk about race inenvironment, they're not ready to lead the united states. beason: arah, i would agree. i the same thing. so, i mean, the idea of being able to talk honestly aboutace, whether you're african-american or a white woman like marianne williamson, who i spoke to alength when i visited south carolina, where all the candidates had -ne before the first deba you know, if you're not able to do what she did on the other night, then that really hurts your credibility, i think, with these vo rs. 's not that race is the only issue they're concerned about, but if you cannot talk about issues through the lens of race and historical racism and discrimination, adi think you're at a dntage. allison: and i think that's why still julián castro --

secretary julián castroeti, because you saw him onstage in the seconnight talking about his policing and criminal-justice plan and really addressing the issue of race and structural racism in a way that is very powerful and keeps him very relevant, even in this b field. lagos: right. yeah. i think two other issues i do want to g into -- healthcare and criminal justice. tyrone, we really saw, on tuesday night especially, senators elizabeth warren and bernieanders kind of fending off criticisms of their healthcare plans and attacks that they're too radical. i mean, what sense are you gettg among voters about this issue? because this was really a winning issue in 2018, but there is this narrative that democrats are sort of going too far on it. aybeason: i think they got a little too deep in the weeds during the debate. but duebng the course of thee, i was in goose creek, south carolina, at an african-american barbershop with black women and men, and that was the second night of the debate. i was in a very upper-middle-class, white,

sort of gated community bu an community outside of charleston for the first night. in both settingsen heal, small group discussions started in the rooms. people are really concerned about whether they'll be able to access good healthcare, and they trsonal stories of being gouged at an emergency room or having to go to anoer county. there are some places in the country where there's not a hospital in the county, or there's not one immediately acssible for, say -- for expecting mothers. so this issue hits heart and soul for a lot of people. how yoretalk about it is dif, and i think that the extent to which candidates can speak to the everyday expience of dealing with the healthcare system will help determine their credibility in that area. lagos: yeah, and i think that that is one thing. you got -- you got to cut through the noise, right? this policy's complicated. w aimee, i just -- i t to hit quickly -- we only have a couple minutes left -- criminal justice. we saw a lot oback and forth on this issue about kamala harris, joe biden's record -- again, booker, gabbard all mixing it up on this.

do you think we're in a new moment, just in terms of how we're talking about that -- and about race more broadly? allison: i think so. i think there's more and more recognition amongst democratic party base voters that the way the dem had supported a criminalustice system has done real harm to communities of color. it has criminalized marijuana use in an enronment where blue states like ours are actually making it legal, and there is a responsibility on the part of not only those who are running for president, but an expectaf the base that's half people of color to redress those harms and to make things right through policy and practice. and k a racial-justice lens on criminal justice is forcing biden -- joe biden, who was a longtime advocate for criminalizing lots of behavior that's beecoterrible for the blacunity -- black and brown communities -- to really turn on a dime to try to adopt different policies. lagos: you know, we are seeing a huge debate about the future of the democratic party,

if they're leaving behind more moderate voters. but isn't tht primaries are for? i mean, do you think that this is -- that they're in a bad place here, or is it still early y? beason: i think it's early, and better to have this conversation now than in 2020. i think that the party has to decide what it is. that's what i'm otaring when i talk tos. they want, i think someone mentioned, moral clarity. they want a sense that they know what the democratic party is. ontours?e its at are its core values, things they won't compromise on? lagos: alright. tyrone beason from the la times, aimee allison, democracy in color, thank you both for being here. allison: thanks for yoving me. beason: than lagos: for the fourth consecutive year, the san francisco chronicle is leading a group of media organizations, incle ing kqed, to cover thissue of homelessness. from videos to print and audio sties, the sf homelproject shares the personal stories and struggles of the men, women, and families who lack stable housing in san francisco. it also strives to answer questions about the crisis,

which is getting worse even as the city spends $300ouillion a year to help nds of homeless people through navigation centers, outreach visits, and other services. joining me now to discuss the sf homeless project is san francisco chronicle reporter kevin fagan, howho's been covering lessness for 20 years. thanks for being here, kevin. fagan: glad to be here. lagos: so, as i mentioned, you've been doing this for a very long time. onyou have spent time he streets with homeless people overnight, including for this project. what's the one thing you want people to understand about this population and about the problem? fagan: well, there are different kinds of homeless people. there'kind you see in the street -- you know, the guy shooting up in his neck, laying under a blanket -- and then there are people who go up from there -- people in shelters who have jobs, people who are just in between, who are coucsurfing. and the one thing that i always keep in mind is that there iss a human being in there who doesn't want to be homeless. i don't think anyo. wants to be homeless you dig through the layers of trauma and years on the street,

and you find that spark in there, in the middle of that person, and they want to get off the street. lagos: and i should say -- i mean, the stories that you guys are telling are very powerful and personal. but i do want to give this some context. there's 35,500 homeless people in the bay area, 8,000 of them in san francisco. 1,000 people on a wait list any given night for shelte. 42% struggling with addiction, almost as many with mental-health issues. and this, to me, is the really interesting one -- 2,000 people housed in san francisco in 2018, and they say for every onperson housed, three more people became homeless. what does that tell you?, liat is the -- what are the underlying problems here that we're not getting at? fagan: it's a tide that keeps coming in, and i -- what most experts will tell you, who loev at this from a macro, is that the federal government gave up its responsibility decades ago, and it's never been made up. so you have local communities trying to dig out of a problem that's really bigger than what they can handle. u have -- 30% of the country lives right about at or below poverty level.

that's a constant pump putting people in. you got housing prices here that are through the roof. the minimum wa. hasn't kept up with it's guaranteed underclass, and until you at on a bigger level, you're not gonna get rid of homelessness. yeah. i mean, one story that you profiled is a man named shorty. he's wheelchair-bound. he had been living on the streets for many years. o me a little bit about shorty. fagan: shorty was a wonderful human being to spend time with. and my partner onhis project -- jessica christian, a great photographer -- she and i spent a lot of time with shorty leading up to the 24-hour period that we spent with him, and then during that day and night. he's -- he's got remarkable fortitude for a guy that's been on the street this long in his wheelchair. he needs someopush him around, to get him food, to dress him, to bathe him, and he had an amazingly upbeat attitude.

agaiof he was an example to me- that human spark is always there. and shorty did not want to be on the street. and actually, after ou24-hour period with him, he got housed, which made me very, very happy. lagos: and he is still housed? fagan: he's still housed. lagos: but does shorty speak to you -- like emblematic of a bigger story here in terms of -- i mean, he is -- he does have a drug addiction that he's struggled with, he idisabled. i mean, what does your experience with him sort of tell you about this broader problem? fagan: ugh. well, i've lived overseas, in england, australia, new zealand. they treat their people better, i think. we shouldn't have this in america. that does not let a guy live in a wheelchair, who's disabled and drug-addicted, in the street. i mean, he hadn't bathed for two weeks during the -- when we spent the 24 hours with him. that's unconble. how can we live in a country that lets that happen? it's astounding. antythis is a compassionate te to help people in desperate straits like that.

lagos: yeah. well, and that's something we hear from critics, is that we spend too many resources, that this is a magnet for homelessness. what has your reporting and the research whave said about that? fagan: it's blaming the victim. sure, people come to san francisco, just like you and i come to san francisco -- housed people, homeless people. i don't think it is a huge magnet. a lot of research shows that most homeless people homeless and stay in the communities they're at because it's familiar, they know their stomping grounds, they know where to go for emergencies. there's a survival instinct. it's not like the world is rushing on in here. other places have homeless problems, and thcthomeless counts havelly gone up bigger in other cities. lagos: yeah, we'venleen this across, cert california. and we know it's cheaper to house someone thtr to leave them on thets, and we have housed thousands of people in san francisco. what does that tell you about sort of the intractability of this -- that statistic, that for every one person housed, three more people end up being homeless? fagan: it's -- it's really tough.

we have 9,500 people who live in supportive housing. f them come out during the day and panhandle. people think they're homeless.r are actually fewer people, in a nightly count, today than tre were in 2003, when i spent six months sleeping in the streets. lagos: but it feels worse. fagan: it feels worse. because it's cumulative. what you have is, you have poverty in the streets as much as you have homelessness in the streets -- poor people who aren't given an avenue to make their lives better. lagos: right.y fagan: tn't get through their addictions, their mental problems, finding a job. they're stuck. and that's terrible. we shouldn't have that many people stuck. lagos: i you believe that this is fixable. we have seen in san francisco a lot of efforts and resources and community support. we've also seen people fight tooth and nail to keep anything out of their neighborhoods. they cite crime and safety issues. down near the ballpark recently. especially about sort of victimhood and crime?

because i feel like you'probable a victim as a homeless person than you are -- fagan: oh, ylah. s: ...as somebody with a safe place to sleep. fagan: yeah, i know from, you know, being asleep on a sidewalk with a blanket, someone's gonna come kick your teeth if they can. it is not safe being outside. i can also understand the concerns of people who are housed, beca you have a drug addiction and you're living outside, you got to get some mey somehow, and that's generally gonna be some smash-and-grab or a little bit of this and at. and, yes, there will be some level of crime. but these -- these are people in desrate need, and it's a societal problem. it's a problem that all of us have to handle. everyone has to put in something if you want it to get better. and, fwhnkly, having a shelter e people can go inside -- it's healthier for them. lagos: and maybe safer for the community. fagan: oh, yeah. lagos: because, as we've noted, e are folks on our streets right now. i just want to end asking you -- i mean, eone who's covered this, who's spent time on the streets for two decades,

do you have hope that thlv is something we can fagan: i always have hope. we can solve this. some cities have done this. salt lake city did it with a surge. it's backslid since then, but it can be solved. it has to be solved on a bigger level, but you never give up hope on somethg -- these are people. these are human beings. they don't want to be homeless. lago you think that the steps the city is taking right now are -- are in the right direction? fagan: they're using the best practices. if they weren't doing what they were doing now, you just have to grit your teeth and move forward. lagos: alright. kevin fagan from the san francisco chronicle. thanks for coming in and all you do. fagan: thanks, marisa. lagos: to see moreage of this crisis online, go to sfchronicle.com/homelessness or kqed.org/homeless. a new report by the economic policy institute uc berkeley shows that early-childhood educators are six times as likely as k-12 teachers to live in poverty. they earn less than 70% of all california workers,

with a median salary of $13 per hour. the low wages and poor wking conditions also affect the quality of care children receive. but parents are also under financial pressure, with a typical family in the state paying a quarter of their annual income on daycare. joining me now is one of the study's co-authors and the co-director of uc berkeley's center for the study of child care employment, lea austin. lea, thanks for joining us. austin: thanks for having me. lagos: so, let's lay out the numbers here. on average, california fam00ies spend between $1 and $16,500 a year for full-time care. in cities like san francisco, i know from personal experience, that can be far more than that. yet as we just said, childcare woers are far more likely than teachers for k-12 to live inty. why is that? like, where -- given how expensive it feels for parents, where is the money going? austin: well, the money is going to all the expenses in early care and education programs. it's true that personnel is the biggest expense in those programs, the time you pay for your facilities

and all of the materials and things tt you need, what's remaining, again, is -- you know, between 60% and 80% of your budget is gonna be for personnel, but you have multipl.teachers in a classro you expect early care and education to be more expensi than k-12 education. lagos: right. you need more people, right? .stin: you need more peopyou e at least two teachers in a classroom. you have fewer children peteacher than you see with older kids, and so by the time you have -- you distribute those costs, you're left withverage, $13 an hour. lagos: so it's not as if the owners of these private faci are making huge profits. austin: no. lagos: so, what's the impact that you guys found on both kids and the providers themselves? maybe start with the children. austin: sure. it's really important, i thid that early educators are the linchpin of high-quality early care and education and the services that cldren receive. so, in order to ensure that children are engaged and stimulated

and that their learning and development is being supported on a daily basis, that relationship and the interaction with their teachers is really, really critical. anwhen teachers are stressed because they experience economic hardship, they're worrying on a daily basis edabout how they're gonna their, it really interferes with their ability to bresent and effective with children as they want to be. lagos: whato you guys recommend... well, i guess, first, to start, who are these teachers? like, who are we talking about here? an is it mostly women,is it pey sort of face institutional challenges to maki ends meet? austin: yes, absolutel in california, as in most of the country, the majority of people who are early care and education teachers and providers are women. about 98% are women. and in california, they're mostly women of color. .. we have a workforce tha you know, we already know, across occupations, that women and people of color experience challenges with wages,

typically earning less than other workers, than white males. and so, you have a field where people think of it as women's work, and they don't really unrstand the complex job of teaching young children. and so you have all of this going into -- or view of what it takes to work with children, and a really low value to that. lagos: and as you mentioned, you know, and a that can play out within the childcare centers, because if these teachers don't have the support they need... i also wonder if we are subsidizing that in another way, efich is through public bs. do you find that teachers in these situations end up needing to rely the soc? austin: they do. about 58% of childcare workers in california utilize at least ofederal. and so, that's a really conservave estimate because we only looked across four programs, and so that's a marker .of how low their wages a and so those teachers are really subsidizing the system

for everyone eare because their wageso low. if they were paid, as we suggest in our estimate, on an even field with elementary school teachers, fople, then that cost would go up. lagos: yeah.boso whatg in terms of how much we should be paying these teachers, and also how mucat that would cost the because as you guys report, families really can't afford pay more. austin: that's right. so, it would... and so we estimate if teachers are paid, again, similar to their elementary school counterparts and have appropriate benefits, that that would cost between $29 billion and $75 billion in california. and that variation depends on how many kids would actuysly participate in thems. we make some different assumptions about that. but when yk at that at a per-child cost, that's $30,000 to $37,000 per child,

which really is what the cost in high-quality programs really is. where would you guys suggest that money come from? and i wonder if you guys looked at, also, how spat could impact state ding down the road, because i would assume the better rly childhood education kids have, the less likely they are to have trouble later on. so, is there a balance here? austin: there is, and in our estimate, we focused on a ticulating the cost aarting point, to say, "here's what we need to grapple with and undetand." but it is also important to, you know, identify and understand the value of that investment. there has been of research over the last several decades that shows, you know, r every dollar you inves in high-quality early care and education services, tha certain return. and that varies depending on study, but, you know, at's between $5 and $15r ev, becabee it has these long-terfits and outcomes for children

and you're spending less on other services down the road. so it has that benefit, certainly, for children, for our state. you know, it really supports establishing a good foundation for children's lifelong learning. lagos: so, w that we have a governor now with four young kids of his own. he's talked a lot about these typeof issues and has actually put some one-time money in the budget to help ilart building out the are, sort of, infrastructure, when we talk about facilities, one-time costs, but, i mean, do you have any hope that the state is going to go further and take some of these recommendations? austin: i do. i think grappling with this sticker shock is a really important thing for the state to do, for state leaders to do, to rlly say, "if this is what we want for california, it this is what we know going to cost," and begin to build upon the investments that they've made thus far and, you know, ensure that one-time dollars become long-term investments

and that we'er looking at expandingces for families at the same time that thoseces are really high-quality and working for children rid the teachers who are for them, as well. lagos: awesome. thank you so much, lea. austin: thank you. gos: that'll do it for u as always, you can find more of our coverage at kqed.org/newsroom. m marisa lagos. thanks for joining us. ♪ ♪ ♪

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