tonight on kqed newsroom, the fight over impeachment ramp its up, and we'll get the latest on this week's revelations and recriminations. plus, a new survey gauge mood of california voters from concerns about the state's future to the tougheissues facing the state. welcome to kqednewsroom. we begin with the latest development in the impeachmen inquiry of president trump. earlier today, the three house committees leading the impeachment investi demanded documents from vice president mike pence about the ukraine, and yesterday the committees interviewed kurt

volkera special envoformer special envoy to ukrain also this week, president trump told reporters that china an should openvestigation into biden and his son. joining me are marisa, and npr senior editor ron joining us from want d.c. ron, le begin with you. let's talk about the niece revelation with respect to vice president pence. what do we know and where is th this going? >>house leaders have sent notice to the vice president saying they e want to every development that might exist, thatight pertain to meetings that mike pence might verified with the ukrainian president, perhaps with others ineyukraine want to know everything that he knows about the en interchanges betour government at the highest levels, that is to say

president trump, and the ukrainian president with úrespect to investigations of the bidens, d also with respect to what the president has been saying, and we saw this in those envoy messages that you referred to a moment ago, the quid pro quo, which seems to be quite explicit at least in the minds of those envoys, those people in our state department delegation there in key everybody that the president was saying you want this aid that congress has appropriated and everyone seems to be for, you have to give me something on this investigation. >> these were not perfect text then, i take it, aguilar the president characterized his phone calls. >> well, he called it a perfect phone call, some are calling these smoking texts, reference, of course, to a smoking gun. >> and what about michael , atkinse i.d. for the intelligence community. be testifying on friday. >> tea is he's going to defend his handling of the whistleblowers complaint. that complaint came to him directly, and he checked it outa to his ownsfaction, to be able to say he found it

credible and urgent, and serious, and then passed it on to the director of national intelligence, his superior for rther action. know that because that individual, joseph mcgwire, mass appeared before the house intelligen committee last week. so this is further checking of the legitimacy of the we whistleb complaint that is driving this whole process. >> marisa, joseph mcgwire didn't find it necessarily all that credible, though, did he >> no, and i think this speak different members of the administration are trying to spin this versus the way the democrats vi. what i would say is that every single piece of evidence that has come out since adam schf first stood up and made the cryptic message about this wewhistlebcomplaint has played into democratic hands, not republicans. the text messages are very ex- applies it in terms of the concern being raised within the administration, and their sense that maybe the words quid pro quo was not used, but that there was basic lay sense that

it was that. and so i think that whatever the inspector general says, it has to be taken in the context of everyting else, as well as the other state department officials, including mike pompeo, who has obviously hit t back almas hard as his boss, president trump. >> there seems somewhat of a no sensthat maybe china is being offered a kind of quid pro quo here, that is president trump, like he did with hillary clinton, when he said ssia, if you're living, where are those -- mails, he's sort of saying to china if you ha something on my political opponent here, let me know about it, and we're supposed to be going trade war with china. >> well, we're supposed to be hearing from some people coming to the united states from china theft r next week, and the context came the same driveway conversation between the president and some of the people covering him, in which he said i have tremendous power over these trade negotiations. the chinese really need to makee a , but maybe we will and maybe we don't. d then on talk about china

investigating the bidens. >> here in california, we're hearing from schiff and pelosi about the president invite lating his oath of office. what do we make from that? >> think this is the crux of why democrats are moving thnow his scandal, why they did not go as far as they have, especially pelosi, with the russia investigation. they feel like this a clear cut se that they can make to the american public, that essential by, you know, making this demand of ukraine, that that is a violation of the oath of office, d i think itreally in a lot of way as strategic talking point from a public relations standpoint, as mu as a legal argument. because i think they can make both of them that something that people understand very clearly. úpolitician, kevin mccarthy sai this vote should dropped there's not enough evi transparency. seems like not only has nancy lo dug in, but she pretty much said nonsense. >> yeah, kevin mccarthy is very

close to the president. ed he has callhim my cousin at one point. i think that he, you know, is doing what the white house would like in sending this letter, but maybe bad times on his part, the letter anwas bein itted right as the president was making those outside the white house about china digging in on the ukrainian stuff, and i think gave pelosi a very clear sort of opening to say, look, we're not going to drop this. it's true, you know, to kevin th mccar they's point in the last two impeachment investigations, there was a vote taken to launch stthose inations, but what pelosi says is i don't need to, don't have to, i'm in control, which we often here from mitch machine coalle too, so that's unique to one party. >> well, these parties are about as partisan as cathey possibly be. what does that mean in terms of the fact that we're seeing the bewhistleblower having identified as a democrat? >> yeah, i mean, i think th is something that the trump administration and their allies are going to keep trying to

hammer on. i think it will beincreasingly hard to make that point when we see mounting evidence like those text messages where those concerns were actually being called out by e administration officials themselves behind closed doors, but certainly this is what we saw during the hillary clinton the state department and the various sort of coogss this presidt made, so i think that is their preliminary play, if we can make this appear partisan, we can takee heat off 067 ours and point it back at the demcrats. let's talk about the role of rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer in this, whic got things started with respect to ukraine, didn't he? >> to some degredegree, all no it was also started some degree by some people in erthe cos vat everyone media who had been writing that joe os biden had some ee for some things he had said while me was vice president with regard to a corruption vestigation in ukraine. now, wh was get the corruption investigation to go forward, and t rid of a prosecutor who

was blocking it. but that was turned around to at suggest somehow he was trying to end thcorruption probe. that was started some time ago. rudy giuliani has been part of spreading that particular interpretation. he has done it through the media. with a number of our allies in different peuntries. always ing only as the president's personal lawyer. now, it's interesting that he is not part of the government he does not have a role in the governme. but e conducting what appears very much though be our foreign policy business as though he had the authority to do so, just as the president's persal lawyer, d there's also in the background of this some effort that's been made in the past by the russians toy that the ukrainians were responsible for the 2016 election interference, which all of our intelligent community has agreed was done by thrussians. the russians say no, that was the ukrainians doing that, and they were framing us and trying to make it look like we did it,

and athis point, it appears that giuliani and to some playing in that particular een interpretation. >> how is this affecting the biden campaign? it looks bad that he had a son hao no experience, got on this board in ukraine, getting $50,000 a month, anso the tie to china, an investment firm. >> i mean, think that's the problem for biden, is not that obviously there's been any foundation of wrongdoing, but just the appearance of. >> i think every time his name gets brought up in the same sentence as corruption in the ukraine, and biden's campaign has other alnges as well. he is lagging far behind bernie sanders d elizabeth warren i fund-raising, but you have to imagine that the narrative around him sofo of not being righthe job right now is something that as we get closer to the primary, and it might get a little more heated among these democrats who have been pretty nice to each other so far, that they might really lean into. think we arseeing the

democrats having a unied front. kamala harris was saying leave joe biden alone, but i don't think that that will hold as we get os to the iowa caucus. >> ron, it's not as if you can suddenly map this out by previous impeachments, even the chges oadcast against president nixon. it's like nothing we've ever seen before. again, not norm. >> it's not normal largely because president trump's presidency is quite different from his predecessors. bill clinton represent reacted differently. richard nixon reacted differently. i wasn't quite available for the andrew johnson impeachment in 1868, but assume that all of these is a little bit different. still, there are some rough guidelines in the constitution. we know that the house is supposed to go first web and the senate is supposed to have a formal trial of the house's charges. we know that cothe supremt chief justice is supposed to preside, and we may see all of that unfold aswe did with clinton, and as we would have

if richard nixon had not n resignedthe face of that process. >> many thanks to both of you. appreciate you being with us. >> thanks, michael. on thursdan francisco district attorney george gascon announced his resignation to explore entering the d.a. race in los angeles. meanwhile, the race to elect a new district attorney in san francisco is a wi open process with four vying for the job. voters in san francisco will geto cast their ballots in that closely watched contest, as well as decide the fate of six local ballot measures. joining us now are two of those candidates, deputy district attorney nancy t um, and let me begin nancy with you. with the resignation of gorg gascon, brings up the question of what sort of job do you feel mahe did, ane where where is was that job in need of some serious

rectifying, and what would you do to rectify it? >> we can look at the last 8 years in san ancisco and see what is happening on our t streets isrking. i think that george gas gascon, when it came to the bred bread and butter ofprosecution work he was lacking. we have in the highest profit crime rate inthe nation, and the highest per capi crime rate in the state of california. so i think whoever comes in next needs s ebody who can tackle those law enforcement issues and really do a good job helping th people of san francisco have safer streets. >> where do you stand on gascon's record? >> wellrei actually last year to run against george gascon for district attornca, e i thought heavy had put his prelinary ambition above the everyday well-being of san franciscoens, and i think the news yesterday that he a andoning his postto run for the same office in los angeles u confirms thougicions. i filed to run because hoff the

high next the nation property im crrates that nancy mentioned. the fact he has not delivered justice for victims of violent crime or sexual assault, and the fact that the relationships between the communities color and law enforcement is as bad as i has evbeen, and he has managed to alienate both of those communities. >> what i'm really concerned about now is what californians seem to be concerned about. the public policy initute of california says the biggest concern is homelessness, and that ties in with drug abuse and with mental soillness. et's talk to you, lee, first about. what you envision in terms of homelessness and solving the problem. >> i'm the only candidate that has been laser focused on homeless conditions and mental hilt from the beginning. my goal is to take juvenile haul ask turn health center. it's one thing to say that those battling mental illness shouldn't be in our county jails or thcourtrooms, but shouldn't be on our streets

either. we need a robust meal health system for them to get the hern they need, and juvenile hall is a perfect opportunity to do that. >> julie, t's go to you. >> i think i take a very practicing thattic approach to these issues on san francisco streets. one of them is as a district attorney, can you be an advoca for certainly policy positions want to make here is that we push a policy position that address homelessness, drug a addictio mental health issues before homelessness e occurs. before peocome involved in the criminal justice system, we need to take an approach that is thoughtful about what happens in terms of where they are -- where we have an opportunity lab separate get people services, but also to make sure there is who untability for people actually harm other people, even fit due tontal illness or drug addiction. let's have some accountability. t's keep our people safer on the streets, and make sure that san franciscoens have a way forward, so that we have a city that is safe for everybody. >> they veth large visions, and large visions are

going to cost a lot in revenue. what do you have to say, nancy, issues, and how you can get the kind of funds you're going to need. >> i think we need be lean ou how we approach the d.a.'s office going forward. fright now there are staffing issues and vacancies, so in order to backfill th, think we need to take that approach can streamline the district attorney's office to make more efficiencies with the attorneys that we have. i know there are ways we can improve services to the constituents of san francisco, and through safety worst expanding the budget, and then i'll take a look in my administration where we need to have more funding and and the board of supervisor are for that. >> what about the relationship, lee,hat you can forge with the board of supervisors and the mayor. how important and ntral is that? >> it's critical. i was in the president of the juvenile probation commission an so i oversaw a $42 million budget, and a 240 person city

department. so i would go in and mean with the board of supervisors and the mayor to iron out that budget. riinvoice exce there. i'm also the only candidate in this race who is both a prosecutor and manage as team o. prosecutors on a day-to-day basis at the a.g.'s of, so i'm ready to step in on day one. let's use the recourses and attorney jess in the office right now in a better way. let's don't expand the budget. there's hings like this dmv grant program at the state level that prides matching dollars to cities and counties that come up ivwith innov ways to tackle property crime. so i've talked about creating afive ameran auto burglary task force to make sure we're able to go after thorganized rings breaking back into cars. program without raising our mv budget at all. >> of course talking about violent crime, as well. >> absolutely. now, the model for he here leis the juvejustice system,

where everything is really focused on rehab days, and we have been successful, focusing on their underlying root causes, whether it's menl healthish yu, drugs, gang, economic opportunity. i want to take that and expand it to the adult system, beginning with transitional age youth, 18 to 24 years old, and show that that rehab dative model is the best way to go, th or their interest and the we can expand it to the entire adult system then. nancy, you've been talking there's a danger therisn't there, that maybe there would be more lawless people on s?the stre that's what one often hears. >> right, and i think restorative justice has a place in our criminal justice system. we employ it right now in neighborhood courts and nonviolent crimes. i think that is a good space spore it. in terms of determining sentences, though, think, especially in violent crime

cases, is not necessarily where we wantto have the end all be all of restorative juste, but is to ve that conversaion between victims of crime, and also offenders, i think is important. it's important to facilitate it. but that should not be th final determining factor on how person is sentenced in view>> what about use of force? >> use of force i think is an important question with respect to law enforcement. we have changed the use of force laws in california, and wi it think it be interesting to see how urthe interpret it. the legislation in itself doesn't necessarily define all of the terms, so it will be subject to interpretation. >> the concern is maybe too many people will be out ofjail as a result. >> i think it's going to be an enfoement challenge, and we need to approach changes in our laws in a way that we are flexible, and we are adaptive, and i k ththat's one of the big short comings of prop 47 is that san fafrancisced to adapt to the change in connection the law in a ways that continued to protect sa public ty and property. >> let me go to you on this ,

lee. >> yer use of force, talking about policability. the next district attorney has to be able to walk and choo gum at the same time if you prepare holaw enforcement accountable when they engage in misconduct, and i'm committed to doing that, holding a town hall toexplain my charging decision. but on the others 9 of case that don't involve official misconduct, we have possibl able to work together. on the murder cases, onse the al assault case, and the home invasions, and i think it's that balancthat has earned me the support of over 150 grou including our firefighters here in san francisco. >> thank you both, and run hard. this week, the public policy institute of california released a new poll reflecting the mood of voters and their top concerns. homeless conditions and jobs were cited most often as the most important feissues ing the state. also, there was bad news for democratic presidential candidate and california

senator kamala harris whose support among likely voters in state has slipped to just 8%. and for the first time since 2015, more than half of likely voters think the state is joining us now is the ceo and president of the public policy institute of california, mark. mark, good to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> why this oimism going south, and, and i don't mean to 54% of likely voters say that the state is headed in the wrong direction, and 54% ri of likely voters also say that they feel that the economy is going to hame bad over the next 12 months. so i think a combination of political turmoil, and economic uncertainty really catching up theople, and they're very nervous right now. >> and the biggest problem is still homelessness and jobs. >> the first time ever in the 20 ars that we've been doing polling we saw homelessness as tied now with jobs. i not unusual to see jobs but

homeless, jobs, housing costs, and immigration were the top issues in our poll. first time ever for homelessness. >> i was struck by the fact that 2/3 of those you spoke to want stronger fun laws. >> yt , two-thirds w stronger gun laws, and i was struck by the fact that 2/3 said they are worried about the pocket of mass shoot energy the area in which they live. now, this poll was taken after the gilroy mass shooting and tells you the extent to which there isfear now, d there's a desire to do something about gun laws. >> you alsodid a presidential poll as i mentioned in the introduction, and what does it mineisthat kamala hahas slipped so much? >> well, you know, in our poll, we found that most people said that they are very closely following the ection, which is kind of unusual for this early, and most people also said that they think that the debates are very importan in deciding who to vote for in this presidential election. ll

in our first when we saw kamala harris leading all other candates, this was ght after a very strong performance in the first debate. th last poll was taken after the third debate, and i guess the second and third debate performances, other candidates than she has. more strongly >> there's a good deep of kept inch about polls, and i want to find out your thoughts about this and the methodology that you use that giv you more fact in what you're doing. >> so we have stuck with random digit dial telephone, usincellphone andline, and live telephone interviewers, which the reason that weuse that methodology is because the national polls still consider that so-called high quality polling. all polling is very difficult today, because its hard-to- reach people. but over time, the accuracy has been better with the live telephone interview, so we've stuck with that. >> so how does this turn into policy? what kind of impact does it

have on the citizenry? >> well, i think that the fact that voters in this state are very worried about a number of issues, a number of issuesthat aren't being revolving solved by either federal government or state government at this poin means that they are looking for candidates for a president who have a plan. and who have who can create some hopeand then at the local level, the fact that people are getting more nervous about the economy makes it more diffilt for bond measures and tax measures next year. we also saw uris inpoll with week support both for the school bonmeasure march, change property tax laws in the state, to provide more funding for schools. >> yeah, i was struck by that, more funding, desire for more funding for school construction, analso for greater action on climate change. i'm not surely how that translates. >> well, the support for

climate change, i think, is something that we have seen in all of our polls,and that, a lot of that, is related to the fact that many people are now worried about natural disasters, particularly fire in our state. and as people have experienced natural disasters that are related to climate change, they want more actions from state government. >> what about democrats, should they be worried as a resultof your polling? >> well, we are solidly a blue state. >> absolutely solidly blue, yeah. >> a republicanhasn't won in a that would have been back to d arnold schwarzenegger. >> well, in people are unhappy and feeling pessimistic, maybe there could be issuing, huh? >> well, if u're a democrat who is an incumbent, where there dcould, ocrats running against each other with our system, think those are thes hat should be wired, the one was are incumbents and the ones in the legislature w,right because both the congress

and the state legislature are getting low ratings. the congress much lower, 24%, but 51% said that they're not happy with the state legislature today. >> and how does that translate? eywhat are unhappy about? >> problems that aren't being -- >> that we've cited? are there others th we need to cover here? >> well, i think that healthcare cost is so a great think that also for many and californians, the fear of deportation for -- due to increased federal enforcement. we found 4 out of 10 people in our poll, and about half of latino, about half of lowe income a cans said they are afraid that ksomeone thw is going to be dorted. >> so thincludes election infederal governmentrity. >> that's right. >> do you get action om the legislatures in sacramento? >> oh, they pay attention. of course their approval rating is what they look at the but -- >> they know where the checks are coming from.

>> that's right. that not only what the voters think, but what the people who so that's one of the reasons that in our methodology we stayed with interviewing all stadults, not the likely voters. >> what it brought the decided. nt voters, or those what did you find? most of those are leaning democratic. manyf them want to participate in the primary. most of them are very unhappy d wiald trump, but they today and to be more fiscally conservative a that's something that those democrats, and especially those rubbing for office, need to take into account. donald trump's approval rating has been in the 30 to % range since he's been elected. it hasn't changed. it hasn't budged, even over the last w weeks in our polling, but there is still very strong opsition to donald trump, and to the policies that he has s proposing. >> thank you so much for

joining us. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that will do . it for as always, you can find more of verage at kqed.org/newsroom. thank you for joining us.

robert: president trump's use of power ignites the impeachment debate. president trump: they've been trying to impeach me from the ey i got elected. robert: president trump remains defiant and unapologetic, amid unting scrutiny of his administration's pressuring of foreign leaders, from ukraine to china, to invtigate political rivals. president trump: china should start an investigation into the bidens because what happened in china is just about as bad what happened with -- with ukraine. so i would say that president zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend that they start an investigation into the bidens. robert: he attacks the whistleblower and congress. president trump: this country has to find out who thaterson wa because that person's a