tonion kqed newsroom, t the fight over impeac, ent ramp its and we'll get the latest on this week's revelations anusrecriminations. >>, a new survey gauge mood of california voters from concerns about the state's future to the toughest issues facing the state. welcome to kqed newsroom. we begin with the latest development in the impeachment inquiry of president trump. earlier today, the three house committees leading the impeachment investigation demanded documents from vice president mike pence about the white house's dealings with

ukrae, and yesterday the committees interviewed kurt volker, a special envoy former special envoy to ukraine. also this idek, prt trump told reporters chthat a should open an investigation into den and his son. joining me are marisa, and npr senior editor ron joining us from wantd.c. ron, let me begin with you. let's talk about the niecec revelation with reto vice president pence. what do we wknow and where is this going? >> the house leaders have sent notice to the vice president ng sahey want to see every development that might exist, that might pertain mtings that mike pence that mmight ver with the ukrainian president, perhaps with others in ukraine. they want to know everything that he knows about the

interchanges between our government at the highest levels, that is to say presiden ukrainian president with úrespect to iestigations of the bidens, and also with respect to what the president has been saying, and we saw this in those envoy messages that you referred to a moment ago, the quid pro quo, which seemto bequite explicit at least in the minds of those , envoose people in our state department delegation there in key everybody that the president wasaying if you want this aid that congress has appropriated and everyone seems to be for,you have to give me something on this investigation. >> these were not perfect texts then, i take it, aguilar che president acterized his phone calls. >> well, he called it a perfect phone call, some are calling these smoking tecall referee, of urse, to a smoking gun. >> and what about michael atkinson, the i.d. for the intelligence community. be testifying on friday. >> the idea is he'sgoing to defend his haling of rsthe whistlebloomplaint.

that complaint came to him directly, and he checked it out to his own satisfaction, to be able to say he found it credible and urgent, and serious, and then passed it on to the director national intelligence, his superior for further action. we know that because that individual, joseph mcgwire, mass appeared before the house intelligence committee last week. so this is further checking of e legitimacy of the whistleblowers complaint that wh is driving this whole process. >> marisa, joseph mcgwire didn't find it necearily all that credible, though, did he >> no, and i think this speak tox the different ways that different members of the administration are trying to spin ththis versuway the democrats view it. what i would say is that every single piece of evidence that has comeout nce adam schiff first stood up and made the cryptic message about this c whistleblower complaint has played into democratic hands, not republicans. ethe text messages are ve applies it in terms of the concern being raised within the administration, and their sense

that maybe thewords quid pro quo was not used, but that there was basic lay sense that it was that. and so i think that whatever the ysinspector general it has to be taken in the context of everyting else, as well as the other state department officials, including mike vi pompeo, who has sly hit back almost as hard as his boss, president trump. >> there seems somewhat of a sense now that maybe ina is being offered a kind of quid pro quo here, that is presidentk trump,he d with hillary clinton, when he said russia, if you're living, where e are th mails, he's sort of something on my politu have opponent here, let me know about it, and we're supposed to be gog trade war with tra. >> well, we're supposed to be hearing from me people coming to the united states from china theft r next week, and the driveway conversation n the president and some of the people covering him, in which over these trade negotiations. the chinese really need to make

a deal, but maybe we ll and maybe we don't. we don't really have to. and then on to talk about china investigating the bidens. >> here in california, we're hearing from schiff and pelosi about the president invite lating his oath of office. wh do we make from that? >> think this is the thcrux of why mocrats are moving now with this scandal, why they did not go as far as they have, especially pelosi, with the russia investigahion. they feel likea clear cut case that they can make to the american public, that an esseia by, you know, making this demand of ukraine, that that is a violation of the oath of office, and i think it's inreal lot of way as strategic talking point from a public s relatiandpoint, as much as a legal argument. because i think they can make both of them that something that people understand ve clearly. úpolitician, kevin mccarthy said this vote should be droppe there's not enough evidence or transparency. seems like nots only nancy

pelosi dug in, but she pretty much said nonsense. >> yeah, kevin mccarthy is very close thto president. he has called him my cousin at one point. i think that he, you know, doing what the white house would like in sending this t letter, ybe bad times on his part, the letter was being transmitted right as the president was making those comments in the white house outside the white house abt china digging in on the ukian stuff, and i think gave pelosi a very clear sort of opening to say, look, we're not going to drop this. it's true, you know, to n ke mccar they's point that in the last two impeachment investigations, there was a vote taken launch those investigations, but what pelosi have to, i'm in control, which we often here from mitc chine coalle too, so that's unique to one party. >> well, these parties are about as e partisan as they can possibly be. what does that mean in terms of the fact that we'rseeing the whistleblower having been identified as a democrat? >> yeah, i mean, i think that

is something that the trump administration and their allies nie going tokeep trying to hammer on. i think it will be increasingly hard to make that point when we see mounting evidence like those text messages where those concerns were actually being called out by the administsetion officials thes betion closed doors, but certainly this is what we saw during the hillary clinton election, and the coogss with the state department and the various sort of coogss is president made, so i think that is their preliminary playif we can make this appear partisan, we can take the heat off 067 ours and point it back at the demcrats. rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer in this, which got things started teth respect to ukraine, didn't he? >> to some degree degree, all no it was also started some degree by so people in the conner is vat everyone media who had been writing that joe biden had some exposure for some things had said while me was vice pr regard to a corruption investigation in ukraine.

now, what he was trying to do was get the corruption investigation to go forward, and get rid of a prosecutor who was blocking it. but that was turned around suggest somehow he was trying to end the corruption probe. that was started some time ago. rudy giuliani s been part of spreading that particular interpretation. he has done it through the media. he he do it through visits with a number of our allies in different countries. always appearing only as the president's personal lawyer. now, it's interesting that he isot part of the government. he does not have a role in the government. but she conducting what appears very much though be our foreign policy business though he had the authority to do so, just as the president's personal lawyer, and there's also in the background of this some effort that's been made in the past by the ssians to say that the ukrainians were responble for e 2016 election interference, which all of our intelligent community has agreed was done by the russians. the russians say no, that , was

the ukrainians doing that, and they were framing us and trying to make it look like we did it, and at this point, it appears that giuliani and to some degree the president have been playing in that tirticular interpre. >> how is this affecting the biing campaign? it looks bad that he had a son who had no experience, got on 0,000 a month, and also the ng tie to china, an investment firm >> i mean, ink that's the problem for biden, is not y at obviouthere's been any foundation of wrongdoing, but just the appearance of. er i think time his name gets brought up in the same sentce as corruption in the ukraine, and den's campaign haother challenges as well. he is lagging far behind bernie sanders and elizabeth warren in fund-raising, but you have to imagine that the narrive around him sort of not being right for the job right now is something that as we get closer to the prary, and it ght get a little more heated among t these demowho have been pretty nice to each other so

far, that they might really lean into. thwe are seeing the democrats having a unified front. kamala harris was saying leave joe biden alone, but i don't think that hthat wid as we get closer to the iowa caucus. >> ron, it's not as if you can suddenly map this out by previous impeachments, even the charges broadcast against president nixon. it's like noth noen befe. again,norm. >> it's not normal largely because president trump's presidency is quite frdifferent his predecessors. bill clinton represent tlreacte differ richard nixon reacted differently. i wasn't quite available for the andrew johnson peachment in 1868, but assume that all of these is a little bit en diff still, there are some rough guidelines in the constitution. we know that the house is supposed to go firse web and thte is supposed to have charges. trial of thhouse's wethat the supreme court chief justice is supposed to preside, and we may see all of

that unfold as we did with clinton, anas we would have if richard nixon had not resigned in the face that process. >> many thanks yto both ofou. appreciate you being with us. >> thank michael. on thursday, san francisco district attorn george ey gasco announced his resignation to explore entering the d.a. race in los angeles. meanwhile, the ce to elect a new district attorney in san francisco is a wide open process wifour vying for the job. voters isan francisco will get to casttheir ballots that closely watched contest, as well as decide the fate of ca six ballot measures. joining us now are catwo of tho idates, deputy ridi attorney nancy t um, and let me begin nancy with you. with the resignation of gorge gascon, it brings up the question of what sort of job do

you feel he did, and maybe where where is was that job in need of some serious rectifying, and what would you do to rectify it? >> we can e look at last 8 years in san francisco and see what is happening on our reets isn't working. i think that george gas gascon, when it came to the bred bread and butter of prosecution work we have in the highest profit crime rate in the nation, and the highest per capita crime rate in the state of california. so i think whoever comes in next needs to be somebody who can tackle those law enforcement issues and really do agood issujob helping the people of san francisco have safer streets. >> where doyou stand on gascon's record? >> well, i actually fired last year to run against george gascon for district attorney, because i ghthheavy had put his preliminary ambition above the everyday well-being oe san franci, and i think the news yesterday that he a abandoning his post to run for

the same office in los angeles confirms though suspicions. i filed to run because hofe high next the opnation ty crime rates that nancy mentioned. the fact he has not der vered justice victims of violent crime or sexual assault, and e ct that the relationships between the communities color and law enforcement is as bad as it has ever been, and he has managed to alienate both of those communities. >> what i'm really concerned about now is what californians seem to be concerned about. e public policy institute of california sayesthe biggs concern is homelessness, and that ties in with drug abus and with mental illness. so let's talk to you, lee, first about. what you envision in terms of homelessness and solving the problem. has en laser focused on e that homeless conditions and mental . hilt from the beginn my goal is to take juvenile haul ask turn that in a mental it'sthing to say that those battling mental illness

ils or courtrooms, but they shouldn't be on our streets need a robust mental health system for them to get the hern they need, and juvenile hall a perfect opportunity to do that. >> julie, let's go to you. >> i think i take a very practicing thattic approach to these issues on san francisco street one of them is as a district attorney, can you be an advocate for ce ainly policy positions, and i definitely want to make here is that we push a policy posi on th address homelessness, drug addiction, and mental health issues before homelessness occurs. before people become involv. in the criminaljustice system, we need to take an approach that is thoughtful about what happens in terms of where they are -- whern we have opportunity to lab separate get people services, but also to make sure ther accountability for people who actually harm other people, even fit due to mental illness or drug addiction. cc let's have somentability. let's keep our people safer on the streets, and make sure that san franciscns have a wa forward, so that we have a city

that is fe for everybod >> they both have large visions, and large visions are going to cost nulot in re what do you have to say, nancy,c about paarly budgetary issues, and how you can get the kind of funds you're going to need. >> i think be need lean about how we approach the ff d.a.'se going forward. fright now there are staffing issues and vacancies, so in order backfill them, we need to take that approach first web and then see how we can streamline the district attorney's office to make more efficiencies th the attorneys that we have. i know there are ways we can improve services to the t constituents of san francisco, and through safety worst expanding the budget, and i'the take a look in my administration where we need to have me funding and and the board of supervisor are for that. >> what about the relationship, lee, that you can forge with the board of supervisors and the mayor. w important and central is that? >> it's critical. i was in the president of the juvenile probation commission

and so i oversaw a $42 million budget, and a 240 person city d so i would go in and an with the board of supervisors and dget. yor to iron out that invoice experience there. i'm also the only candidate in this race who is both a prosecutor and manage as team o. prosecuts on o. day-to-day basis at the a.g.'s of, so i'm ready to step in on day one. let's use the recourses and torney jess in the offi right now in a better way. let's don't exnd the budget. there's hings like this dmv grant program at the state levethat provides matching dollars to cities and counties that come up with innovative ways to tackle property crime. so i've lked about creating afive american auto burglary task force to make sure we're able to go after the organized rings breaking back into cars. that can be funded by this dmv program without raising our budget at all. >> of course talking about

violent crime, as well. >> absolutely. now, the model for hehere is the juvenile justice system, where everythingis really focused on rehab days, and we have been ccessful, focusing on their underlying root causes, whether it's mental healthish yu, drugs, gang, economic opportunity. i want to take that and expand it to the emadult sy nning with transitional age youth, 18 to 24 years old, d show that that rehab dative model is the best way to go, both for their interest and the interest of the general public. we can expand t to the entire > ult system then. nancy, you've been talking about restorative justice. there's a danger there, isn't there, that maybe there would be more lawless people on the streets? that's what one often hears. >> right, and i think restorative justice has a place in our criminal justice system. we employ it right now in cneighborhorts and nonviolent crimes. i think that is a good space

orit. in terms . of determining sentences, though, think, especially in violent crime ne cases, is not ssarily where we want to have the end all be all of restorative justice, but is to have that conversaion between victims of crime, and also offenders, i think is importan it's important to facilitate it. but that should not be the final determining factor on how a person is sentenced in my view. >> what about use of rce? >> use of force i think is an important question witqurespect to law enforcement. we have changed the use of force laws in californid it think it will be interesting to see how the courts interpret it. the legislatt n in itself doescessarily define all subject to interpretation. >> the concern is maybe too many people will be out of jail as a result. >> i think it's going to be an enforcement challenge, and we ed to approach changes in our laws in a way that re flexible, and i are adaptive, anthink that's one of the big short comings of prop 47s that san francisco failed to adapt to the change in

connection the law in a ways that continued to protect public safety and property. >> t me go to you on yois lee. >> yeah, for use offorce, talking about policability. the next district attorney has be able to walk and chogum at the same time, if you accountable when they engage in misconduct, and i'm committed toing that, holding a town hall to explain my charging decision. but on the others 99% of case misconduct, we have possibl able to work together. on the murder cases, on the sexual assault case, and the home invasions, and i ink it's that balance that has earned me the support of over 150 groups including our firefighters here in san francisco. >> thank you haboth, and run hard. this week, the public policy institute of california released a new poll reflecting the mood of voters and their top concerns. homeless conditions and jobs were cited most often as the most important issues affecting thstate.

also, there was bad news for democrndic presidential caidate and california r senatokamala harris whose support among likely voters in state has slipped to just 8%. d for the first time since th 2015, more than half of likely voters thi the state joining us now is the ceo t and presid the public policy institute of california, mark. mark, good to have ywith us. >> good to be here. why this optimism going south, and, and i dot mean to los angeles? >> 54% of likely voters say that the state is headed in the wrong direction, d 54% offering likely voters also say that they feel that the economy is going tohave bad times over the next 12 months. so think a combination of political turmoil, and economicc uncertainty really ng up with people, and they're very nervous right now. >> and the biggest problem still is homelessness and jobs. >> the first time ever in the 20 years that 'vbeen doing

polling we saw homelessness as tied now with jobs. i not unusual to see jobs but homeless, jobs, housincosts, and immigration were the top issues in our poll. first time ever for homelessness. at 2/3 of those you spoke to want strger fun laws. >> yes, two-thirds want stronger gun laws, and i was struck by the fact that 2/3 said they are worried about sse pocket of shoot energy the area in which they n whlive. now, thipoll was taken after the gilroy mass shooting and there is fear now, and there's a desire to do something about gun laws. >> you also did a presidential poll as i mentioned in the introduction, d what es it mine that kamala harris has slipped so much? >> well, you ow, in our poll, we found that most people said that they are very closely foowing the election, which unusual for this early, and most people also said that they think that the debates e very important in

deciding who to vote for in this presiden. al electi candidates, this was right saw after a very strong performance in the first bate. this last poll was taken after the second and third debate d performances, other candidates have performed more strongly than she has. >> there's a good deep of kept inch about polls, ntand i to find out your thoughts about you use that gives you more fact in what're doing. >> so we have stuck with the random digit dial telephone, using cellphone andline, and live telephone interviewers, which the reasonth we use that methodology is because llt national still consider that so-called high quality polling. all polling is very difficult today, because its hard-to- reach people. but over me, the accuracy has been better with the live

telephone interview, so we e stuck with that. >> so how does this turn into policy? what kind of impact does it have on the cielzenry? >> i think that the fact that voters in this thate ryare orried about a number of issues, a number of issues that aren't being revolving solved by either federal government oro state rnment at this point, means that they are looking for candidates for a presidwho have a plan. and who have wh can crea some hope and then at the local level, the fact that people are getting more nervous about the economy mas it more difficult for bond measures and tax measuresx next yeo . we asaw this in our poll with week support both for the school bond measure in march, as well as the measure to change property tax laws in the for schools. ve more >> yeah, i was struck by that, more funding, desire for more funding for school ns uction, and also for greater action on climate

change. i'm not surely how that translates. >> well, th support for climate change, i think, is alour polls, and that, a en in lot of that, is related to the fact that many peoplare now worried about natural disasters, particularly lyfire our state. and as people have experienced natural disasters that are related to climate ch ge, they want more actions from state government. >> what about democrats, should they be worried as a result your polling? >> well, we are solidly a blue state. yeah. olutely solidly blue, >> arepublican hasn't won in a statewide race since 2006, and that would have been back to arnold schwarzegger. >> well, in people are unhappy and feeling pessimistic, maybe there co>>d be issuing, huh? ell, if you're a democrat who is an incumbent, where ere could, to democrats running against each other with our system, think those are the ones that should be wired, the

one was are incumbents and the h ones in legislature right now, because both the congress tting low ratings. lature are the congress much lower, 24%, but 51% said that they're not happy with the state legislature today. >> and how does that translate? what are they unhappy about? >> problems that aren't being -- e there others that we need to cover here? >> well, i think that healthcare cost is also a great concern lir rnians, and i think that also for many californians, the fear of deportation for -- due to we found 4 out of 10 people in our poll, and about half of latino, about half lower income a cans said they are afraid that someone they know is going to be deported. >> so that includes election infederal governmentrity. >> that's right. >> do you get action from the legislatures in sacramento? >> oh, they pay thtention.

of coursr approval rating is what they look at the most, but -- >> they know where the checks are coming from. >> that's right. te they pay ion to the fact that not only what the voters think, but what the peoplewho they represent think. so that's one of e reasons that ouin methodology we stayed with interviewing all adults, not just the likely voters. >> what it brought the independent voters, or those undecided. what did you find? most of those are leaning democratic. many of them want to particate in the primary. most of them are very unhappy with donald trump, but they today and to be y more fisca conservative and that's something that those democrats, and especially those rubbing for office, need to take into account. donald trump's approval rating has been in the 30 to 35% range since he's been elected. it hasn't changed. it hasn't budged, even over the last few weeks in our polling, but there is stilvery strong

opposition to donald trump, and to the policies that he has proposg. >> thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that will do it for us. as always, you can find more of our verage at kqed.org/newsroom. thank you for joining us.

captioning sponsored by wnet >> sreenivasan: on this edition ocr sunday, october 6: the report of a second whistleblower is confirmed. in ourignature story: the netherlands takes advantage of a u. "brexodus." and a playground designed for people of all abilities. next on "pbs newshour weekend." >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: bernard and irene schwartz. sue and edgar wachenheim iii the cheryl and philip milste family. the j.p.b. foundation. rosalind p. walter, in memory of george o'neil. barbara hope zuckerberg. corporate funding is provided