captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> nawaz: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. judy woodruff isway. on the newshour tonight: withdrawal. president trump under fire from democrats and republicans for abruptly announcing the removal of u.s. troops from syria. then, the impeachment inquiry grows. the house subpoenas the secretary of defense and white house budget director as a second whistleblower with first- hand knowledge of the ukraine affair emerges. our politics monday team is here to break down the ramifications for the president. plus, a modern bluesman. grammy-award winner gary clark jr. on re-tuning his sound in a changing america. >> it's because of this tension and social climate, race relations and fear and the

unknown. how do i maneuver through that and teach my kids how to be strong, teach my kids how to be loving in a world that can be so cruel. >> nawaz: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.

>> the william and flora hewlett foundation. for more than 50 years, advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world. at www.hewlett.org. >> and with the ongoinsupport of these institutions: and inviduals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> nawaz: the u.s. military is on the way out of northeastern syria tonight, and it's expected turkish forces will soon be on

the way in. the president is touting the u.s. withdrawal in the face of widespread criticism. guided by a rising sun, the americans were on the road at daybreak, leaving the syrian- turkish border on orders from president donald trump. by midday, u.s. bases there were deserted except for a few kurdish fighters. the white house announced late sunday that mr. trump was withdrawing all forces on the syrian-turkish border, which >> let them take care of it. i want we want to bring our troops back home. >> reporter: which could put the syrian democratic forces directly in harm's way. diswhrrvetio the s.d.f. helped the u.s. defeat the so-called isis caliphate, and reclaim its capital, raqqa. they also keep watch over tens of thousands of isis fighters and sympathizers in sprawling camps. the kurds control much of northeast syria's nortrn border with turkey. but their northern neighbors consider them terrorists linked to kurdish insurgents in turkey

known as the "p.k.k." turkish president recep tayyip erdogan has proposed a so-called "safe zone" on the border, clearing out the native kurds and resettling it with syrian refugees from elsewhere in the country; more than 3 million syrians have fled to turkey since the syrian civil war began in 2011. >> ( translated ): if this safe zone, the secure zone, can be declared, we can resettl confidently somewhere between 1 million to 2 million refugees. we can afford that opportunity. >> nawaz: last year, turkish forces attacked, and still occupy, parts of northeast syria including the kurdish city of afrin. in august, erdogan renewed his threats to destroy the kurds: >> ( translated ): turkey has the right to eliminate all threats against its national security. god willing, we will carry the process started with afrin and jarablus to the next stage very soon. >> nawaz: the u.s. has long found itself between the pitched adversaries. in the past, president trump boasted of his ability to convince nato ally turkey to

hold off on further attacks on his partner in the fight against isis. mr. trump in late june, at the g-20 meeting: >> i called him and i asked him not to do it. they are, i guess, natural enemies of his or turkey's. and he hasn't done it. they were lined up to go out and wipe out the people that we just defeated the isis caliphate with, and i said, "you can't do that." you can't do it. and he didn't do it. >> nawaz: but following a phone call with erdogan on sunday, the president appeared to reverse course. on monday, he tweeted that although the kurds "fought with us," it was time for them to "figure the situation out" with their neighbors and with isis. the capitol hill reaction was bipaioisan and blistering. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said a withdrawal would be "precipitous" and "increase the risk that isis and other terrorist groups regroup." house speaker nancy pelosi called it "a deeply disturbing development." and trump ally lindsey graham called into fox news to criticize the announcement.

>> this is going to lead to isis' reemergence. nothing better for isis than to create a conflict between the kurds and turkey. >> nawaz: it's the latest shift in syria policy since the u.s. began its anti-isis campaign in 2014. president trump made withdrawal a core element of his presidential campaign, and in december 2018, annnced he was bringing home all u.s. troops there. >> they are all coming back. and they are coming back now. we won. >> nawaz: the president eventually walked that pledge back, but not before secretary of defense james mattis resigned. this new policy would theoretically kill a deal the u.s. made with turkey in late september. in exchange for erdogan's u.s. began conducting joint, the patrols with turkish forces on the syrian border. they also forced the syrian democratic forces to destroy their fortifications on the border and retreat. the joint patrols were ongoing just days before mr. trump announced he was reversing u.s. policy. around the same time, erdogan

had begun accusing the us of insufficient commitment to keeping the border safe. >> ( translated ): we have acted with enough patience. we see that ground patrols and air patrols are all a story. now turkish troops are amassed on the border, seemingly waiting for orders to invade. for a deeper look at what this all means, we turn to leon panetta. he served as the director of the c.i.a. andhen secretary of defense during the obama administration. and steve simon served as senior director for middle eastern and north african affairs on the national secuirty council staff during the obama administration. he's now professor of the practice of international relations at colby college. gentlemen, welcome to you both. secretary panetta, i'd like to begin with you. how big a change in u.s. policy is this latest move? >> well, i think this is a serious foreign policy blunder

that is going to undermine united states leadership and further weaken our role in the world. i mean, we're putting a knife in the back of the kurds who basically fought alongside of us in trying to destroy the i.s.i.s. caliphate. in basically leaving the kurds vulnerable, we've also opened up the possibility that syria will go into the hands of russia, iran and that i.s.i.s. will further strengthen itself. so, from every aspect, i consider this to be a very serious blunder on the part of the president. >> nawaz: steve simon, you have long argued this was a long time coming, that the alliance with the syrians -- the kurdish, rather, forces a very short shelf life, this was inevitable in some ways. do you agree with this decision to withdraw u.s. forces?

>> well, i think it was the right decision, but it was really not well prepared, secretary panetta points out quite eloquently. it was known, certainly since last winter, that this was the president's inclination, and he was determined to do it. he was talked out of it at the interval, in the between the president's aborted decision last november and the decision he's made just today, nothing was done to prepare the ground for the withdrawal, and this to me -- i guess it's astounding because there were options that the united states could have pursued that would have reassured turkey in a way that removed its incentive to invade syria under conditions that we're looking at now. but none of those steps were really taken, and they weren't taken because there was a view onthe part of the

administration that it would entail talking to the regime in damascus, and this was something that the united states didn't want to do. now, you know, on one level, that's understandable, the regime in damascus is repugnant, but if the turks are going to be assured or reassured that the p.k.k. won't be a security problem for them, then, really, the only way to accomplish that is for these areas of syria that are now administered by the kurds are reinstated into the syrian state. >> nawaz: okay, simon, do i take that to mean that you disagree with the president's decision? >> as i said, the president's decision the perfectly legitimate, i think, it makes a lot of sense, but the ground hasn't been prepared for that --

for that movement, and it could have been, and it wasn't because the parties that are involved didn't use the time available to them between the president's decision last november to withdraw and now and that's deeply regrettable. so the question that we face is how best to implement president trump's decision in ways that don't lead to serious disorder, civic disorder in the areas of syria that are administered by the kurds and their arab allies. it's a very large area and -- >> allow me to put that -- -- and pointed out -- >> nawaz: allow me to put that to secretary pa panetta there. is there a good way to implement this decision? is there a good way to do this that does not lead to potential resurgence of i.s.i.s. forces or put our kurdish allied lice on the ground at risk?

>> well, there's no way to do it when you basically give up the only leverage that you have, which is the presence of u.s. troops in that region. that's why the president reversed himself when he first made this decision back in december, and he retained our forces there. if our forces are there, then we can negotiate with turkey, we can negotiate with syria, we can negotiate with others in terms of how this transition ought to take place. but once you immediately pull out u.s. forces without that preparation, you're essentially saying you're on your own, and turkey has given an invitation to basically invade syria. those are consequences that are going to hurt our credibility -- the united states credibility with allies. we depend on allies. we depended on the kurds to help us destroy the caliphate.

to suddenly leave syria and say to the kurds, you're on your own, sends a signal to other allies not to trust the united states. >> nawaz: steve simon, does this hurt our credibility with other allies? who would trust us after this reversal? >> i think allies are constantly evaluating the reliability of u.s. commitments. in this case, i think what gets lost is the fact that the kurds had their own reasons for joining us in this anti-i.s.i.s. operation. they acting in their interest. one of those interests was the hope of u.s. support for some kind of autonomous arrangement for the kurds within syria along the lines the u.s. had secured for the kurds in iraq. so the kurds were playing their own game here, they were pursuing their own interests. this is not an act of altruism on the part of the kurds.

at this point, the u.s. and kurdish interests are diverging, so you're seeing a weakening of the alliance that secretary panetta has referred to as a stab in the back, but it's diverging interests, and they can't be helped right now. turkey is a n.a.t.o. ally of the united states. >> nawaz: very quickly, let me ask do you believe u.s. withdrawal from this area could lead to a resurgence of the i.s.i.s. threat? >> well, i think if the kurds are given a choice of fighting the turks or fighting i.s.i.s., they're going to turn on the turks, they're going to defend themselves against the stronger enemy and the more lethal one and that, in effect, is going to damage fight against i.s.i.s. because, even though the united states has been a keystone in the efforto combat the islamic state, the fighting and dying has been done by others, including the kurds. so they're going to be distracted. they don't have the strength to

fight a two-front war. >> nawaz: secretary panetta, what about you? >> there's no question that this is going to give i.s.i.s. the opportunity to regroup. there are tens of thousands of territories that are in camps that the kurds have overseen. they arenoy going to turn -- they are now going to turn their attention to dealing with the turks, which means those terrorists are going to become part of the i.s.i.s. effort. so there is no question that what the president did is going to basically give i.s.i.s. additional ability to reorganize and then threaten the united states. it's a terrible mistake. >> nawaz: steve simon, if those fighters are released or do escape, thousands of them in detention now watched over by the kurdish forces, what's your reaction to that? what happens then? >> well, first of all, it's hard for me to believe that these

i.s.i.s. fighters that we're talking about are going to make it to the united states and attack the united states in our own homeland, or really have the assets or the resources, the planning skill, so forth, to seriously damage the united states' interests in the middle east. so it's -- i'm not a big fan of i.s.i.s., mind you, but thir ability to threaten u.s. interests, i think, is really rather limited. >> brown: do they pose a threat to our n.a.t.o. allies, to our european allies? >> yes, i would say of a limited nature, but our n.a.t.o. allies have considerable resources to deal with this threat, and, mind you, the i.s.i.s. fighters we're talking about have to get to europe to do this, to the extent that i.s.i.s. is an ideology

that's extremely anti-western, well, there's no question about that, but the ideology doesn't travel just in bodies. the ideology travels on the internet and through other channels to influence opinions of muslim populations in a lot of places including europe. the fate of these i.s.i.s. fighters in syria where they are still beleaguered, even if the kurds are distracted, is not going to be a major factor in european or united states security. it will be a major factor for people who ve in areas in which i.s.i.s. succeeds in reestablishing control in rural areas of syria. that's true. but the effect on the united states interests i think is really, you know, difficult to identify. i think the key task right now is finding ways to reassure the turks, get them calmed down, that the kurds on the syrian

side of the border will not threaten their security, and i don't think that that can be done unless the syrian regime as well as the russians are brought into the equation. >> nawaz: secretary panetta, you're shaking your head. very briefly, would you like to respond? >> yeah, with great respect that's a very naive approach to assume that somehow i.s.i.s. will never be able to reorganization and conduct the kind of attacks that we've seen them conduct in the past. we've learned that from al quaida. we learned from the fact that, when we left iraq, what happened was i.s.i.s. reorganizationed itself -- reorganized itself and created a caliphate between syria and iraq that then represented a national security threat to the united states. i don't think we ought to ssume that somehow i.s.i.s. is not going to be intent on their principle goal, which is to attack the united states. that remains a threat.

>> nawaz: gentlemen, we will have to leave it there. thank you very much for your time, leon panetta, steve simon, thank you. >> nawaz: in the day's other news, a new round of impeachment subpoenas hit the white house and the pentagon. house democrats asked for documents related to president trump's decision to withhold military aid to ukraine for a time. we'll take a look at that and other developments in the investigation after the news summary. a federal judge this morning rejected president trump's refusal to release his tax returns to prosecutors in new york. the judge called it "a categorical and limitless assertion of presidential immunity." the president's lawyers immediately appealed, and this afternoon, a federal appeals court blocked release of the tax returns for now. prosecutors in new york want the

records as part of a probe into payments made to two women who claimed to have affairs with mr. trump. in iraq, the prime minister ordered the army to leave a baghdad neighborhood where dozens of protesters were killed or wounded this weekend. the troops are being replaced by police. 's an attempt to ease tensions after protesters burned tires in the streets on sunday, and soldiers again opened fire, breaking up the crowds. but today, the demonstrators sounded undaunted. >> ( translated ): we are calling on the people and the army to stand by us. our revolution will continue l the gime falls. we have demands and they make promises but they do not fulfil them. >> nawaz: more than 100 people have been killed in the last week during protests aimed at corruption and a lack of jobs. hong kong remainedn edge today after a government ban on face masks sparked another weekend of violence. the first two protesters charged with violating the ban arrived in court today as masked supporters gathered outside in defiance.

later, the protests again turned violent, and riot police fired tear gas to control the crowds. two americans and a british scientist have won the 2019 nobel prize for medicine. they discovered how cells react to low oxygen levels, known as hypoxia. dr.gregg semenza at johns hopkins university in baltimore is one of the honorees. he said today the research on cells and oxygen could lead to new treatments for heart disease and cancers. >> the cancer cells divide very rapidly, consume a lot of oxygen and the cancer cells become very hypoxic. and whereas most of the chemotherapy drugs are designed to kill dividing cells that are well oxygenated, there are no treatments that are approved to treat the hypoxic cells within the cancer. >> nawaz: semenza will share the award-- more than $900,000-- with dr. william kaelin of harvard, and peter ratcliffe of oxford university in britain.

the strike at general motors entered its fourth week today with little hope for an early end. on sunday, the "united auto workers" said talks had taken a turn for the worse. nearly 50,000 workers are still on the picket lines at 30 g.m. factories. it is now the company's longest walkout since 1970. consumer goods giant unilever has announced it will cut its use of non-recycled plastics in half, by 2025. the multi-national behind brands like dove soap and lipton tea plans to reach that goal by using more recycled plastic, and reducing all plastic use by over 100,000 tons. unilever said today it produced some 700,000 tons of plastic packaging in 2018. president trump signed a limited trade deal with japan today. it restores benefits that u.s. farmers lost when he withdrew from a broader agreement, negotiated by the obama administration. and, on wall street, the dow jones industrial average lost 95 points to close at 26,478.

the nasdaq fell 26 points, and the s&p-500 slipped 13. still to come on the newshour: where the impeachment inquiry goes from here as a second whistleblower comes forward. amy walter and tamara keith on the fallout from the investigation into president trump. and much more. >> nawaz: the impeachment inquiry rolls on with more subpoenas and another whistleblower. white house correspondent yamiche alcindor begins our coverage of the day's event. >> alcindor: a new day. a new round of subpoenas related to the impeachment inquiry targeting president trump. this time the democratic chairs of three house committees sent demands for documents to both the pentagon and the white house budget office. they want information on president trump's decision to withhold military aid to ukraine. a whistleblower has accused the

president of temporarily blocking millions of dollars to pressure the president of ukraine to investigate former vice presidentoe biden and his son, hunter. >> this is a scam and people are wise to it. >> alcindor: this afternoon at the white house, president trump sounded off. >> the whistleblower report or whatever the news was so off. it was so horrible. i said i never said that. almost everybody that read it said it was perfect or really very good. >> alcindor: in the meantime, a second whistleblower has entered the picture to back up the complaint. attorney mark zaid now represents both individuals. zaid said his new client, described as another intelligence official, has been interviewed by michael atkinson, the intelligence community's inspector general. on sunday, zaid tweeted that the second whistleblower has "first hand knowledge" about key events to corroborate the original complaint. over the weekend, the trump administration put no one out to make the president's case. but republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin came to the

president's defense. he chairs the senate homeland the reason he had very legitimate concerns and reservations about ukraine is first, corruption, generalized. it's endemic. we all know that. >> alcindor: the republican chair of the senate judiciary committee lindsey graham vowed to expose the whistleblowers' identities if democrats move ahead with impeachment. but, nearly 90 former national security officials who served under presidents from both parties published an open letter. they insisted that whistleblowers deserve protection and anonymity. still to come this week: house committees will hear from several current and former diplomats and other trump officials, in closed sessions. >> nawaz: and yamiche joins me now as well as our capitol hill correspondent lisa desjardins. yamiche, let's start with you at the white house. you have been reporting on this

impeachment inquiry as it continues to expand. what are you hearing and seeing among trump allies and from the president himself? >> the white house is really preparing to push back on impeachment like it's a campaign issue. so they're not treating this as a legal issue as much as a messaging issue. this week vic e president mike pence launched a national tour where he's going to be visiting districts, one vice president trump in 2016 anne by congressional democrats in 2018. he's going to be basically making the case that these republicans are going to be better for these voters and a few voters who like president trump enough in 2016 are betrayed by democrats because they're focused on imimpeaching the president and not focused on heaclthcare or other things they promised democrats and other voters. so the other thing to note is that the president's campaign had a call today where they're going to announce they're going to make it harder for republicans to try to challenge teaspoon to get on the ballot in

other states. they say this is coming from the president of the president, it's going to be easier for him not to face people on the ballot. if you're trying to challenge president trump, it's going to be hard to get on the ballot in some of these states. times are looking at having the first whistleblower testify off campus in a shrouded way so you can't know this person's identity through their face or how you see them. this is unusual, but democrats are making their strategy. >> nawaz: extraordinary steps to hear from the whifnlt what else are you hearing on capitol hill this week. >> is this we don't know if it's a man or woman yet, but to speak to yamiche's reporting, what's going on the s democrats don't trust the republicans in congress because they know republicans and the president want to know who the whistleblower is. the whistleblower is protected by law. let's talk about who else is going to be on the hill.

three interviews, one is counselor to mike pompeo. the two big names, gordon sumlin, currently the ambassador to the e.u., he is a political appointee. h se a hotel chain owner, a big trump donor, then we'll hear from marie yovanovitch, privately they will hear from her, she was the ambassador to ukraine who we understand was recalled in that position. both are involved in this call, sumlin, as we know, was privy to the match nations of this -- machinations of this. yovanovitch, did trump retaliate against hearse? that within alreadying. >> another topic generating discussion on capitol hill is the president's decision to withwithdraw u.s. forces from northern sir. i can't what are you hearing on capitol hill? >> i think the calls about impeachment discussions or

debate, everyone on the hill wanted to talk about sir. i can't there's sharp concern from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle about what he's doing, earlier today about him pulling troops out, later today, they're not sure exactly what he's doing. even some to have strongest trump allies, they say this makes me wonder about him as a president. we had two different officers tell me that, we think he's making a big mistake and timing is bad because of impeachment. he needs his allies. one said we're supposed to be supporting him but this is going exact opposite on something we're concerned about. >> heavy bipartisan -- yes, and trump allies are shaken by this decision. >> yamiche, another topic, we mentioned it earlier, but there is another inquiry we should talk about, this led by the man hasn't district attorney to get some of president trump's tax records. what do we know about that effort? >> well, it's an extremely important case and it gets to the heart of the fact that the

president doesn't want to turn over his tax returns. he said it's because he's being audit and doesn't want to reveal his tax returns, that's what he's going through that. we heard the president say he doesn't want to release his tax returns because he doesn't want to show where he's getting his money from or he's not worth as much money as he says. what happened is a judge ordered him to release his tax returns, but an appeals court stopped the order. we're seeing the appeals court will be moving fast. we might have a hearing even as early at the end end of the month, october 21. the president pushed hard when people try to get him to release his tax returns. this is going to be something they appeal and could end up in the supreme court because the president is not going to let this go lightly. >> nawaz: yamiche alcindor, lisa desjardins, thanks to you both.

>> nawaz: stay with us. coming up on the newshour: free speech, the n.b.a., and the risks and rewards of doing business in china. plus, musician gary clark jr on capturing the tenor of the times. while the trump administration navigates this impeachment inquiry, the democratic candidates hoping to replace president trump in the oval office are still figuring out how much attention to put on the incumbent. in a moment, william brangham will have more analysis on the politics of impeachment in a moment. but first, lisa desjardins is back with a report from the campaign trail, where democrats are also rolling out new policy proposals. >> hello charleston, its so great to be with you. >> desjardins: the 2020 candidate parade this weekend went through charleston south carolina. beside the bucolic ashley river came a chorus of tough words for president trump. from businesssman tom steyer: >> i am dying to expose mr. trump as the fraud and failure

that he is. >> desjardins: colorado senator michael bennet: >> everybody herknows that donald trump is a clear and present danger to our democracy and our future. and has got to go. >> desjardins: and former maryland congressman john delaney >> trump is the symptom of a disease and we got to cure and end the symptom. there's nothing more important by any measure than beating him in 2020. >> desjardins: hawaii congresswoman tulsi gabbard took a different approach. >> we stand united to equality and justice for all. >> desjardins: gabbard, who ha qualified for the next debate, did not mention president trump by name, insad criticizing corporate greed and calling for broader community spirit. >> as your president, i am seeking to bring these values of service above self to the white house to restore the principles

of integrity and honor and respect. back to the white house to make sure that our white house is once again a beacon of light and hope and opportunity for every single person in this country. >> desjardins: not on stage were the three poll leaders in the primary race, former vice president joe biden, massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, and vermont senator bernie sanders. >> desjardins: sanders was recovering after suffering a heart attack late last week. >> how are you feeling senator? in the meantime, sanders is rolling out new policy ideas, today tackling corporate influence. if nominated and elected, sanders pledged to ban corporate donations fr the democratic national convention and for any inaugural events. and he would block members of congress from becoming lobbyists for life.

sanders has sworn off big-donor fundraisers but nonetheless brought in more donations than any other candidate in the past three months, rang in $25.3 million, overwhelmingly from small donors. other candidates are also pushing new ideas today. california senator kamala harris announced a plan to fund six months of fully-paid family leave for workers making under $75,000. >> when we talk about child care, when we talk about maternity/paternity leave, when we talk about the fact that not only are so many parents having children but caring for their parents, we need to have a much more humane approach. >> desjardins: south bend indiana mayor pete buttigieg focused on prescription drug prices, rolling out a plan in "the boston globe" that would "cap monthly out-of-pocket drug spending to around or just over $200 for seniors and those who joined a government plan." the democratic field remains large. but just months until the primaries begin, time for candidates to stand out is getting smaller. for the pbs newshour, i'm lisa

desjardins. and that brings us to politics monday. i'm here with amy walter of "the cook political report" and host of public radio's "politics with amy walter." and tamara keith of n.p.r. she co-hosts the "npr politics podcast." welcome you two podcasters. let's talk about impeachment. amy, the president, when this whole thing first broke, said there was no quid pro quo. then these texts come out, now a second whistleblower has come forward, saying it looks quite clear that there was a quid pro quo. but it seems that the president's defense of this whole call and this intersection with the ukrainians hasn't changed very much. what is he trying to do here? >> and his defenders, at least a few of them that are going out on television, defending the president, they're not talking about what the president actually did or his intentions, whether it was with ukraine o asking the chinese to

investigate, they're making the case that this is -- we should be looking into corruption of the bidens, we should be looking at the 2016 campaign. it's mud i didn't think the waterss much possible in order to get, i think, folks who are not truly partisan or people who are just sort of paying attention to this whole affair to say, uing hugh, that's just politicians, biden doing his thing, trump's doing his thing, and check out, instead of focusing exclusively on what the current sitting president of the united states is doing. >> reporter: tam, is that your sense that, one, that's what they're doing and, two, it's going to work? >> the president keeps repeating the same thing. he keeps repeating it as if he could repeat it enough times, it would make it absolutely true. but the language that is in that call has even in my republicans

saying that was improper. his defenders will say that was improper but not imimpeachable and that is the big difference. the president seems to be very much staying on message. also, he's intensified his rhetoric. he's using increasingly extreme language like treason. he's calling the media the "corrupt media." he's transparent about it. he said calling you fake news wasn't tough enough, i needed something strger and apparently sorted of charted this and his eyes of this language is increasing, the number of tweets is increasing. >> the presiden the president is lashing out as this intensifies around him. >> rorter: amy, do you think this does any damage to biden's campaign? it seems now that there is really no evidence that biden tried to get this ukrainian prosecutor out to protect his son, but there still is the

appearance that if you're the point man for ukraine on the obama administration, it is a little dodgy to have your son working at this gas company that had been investigated. in the end, does this hurt biden? >> that's been a lot of the chatter over the weekend, right, that biden has not done enough to sort of push back on this story. for somebody who's putting the whole onus of his campaign of i'm the guy that can beat trump, he has not been vocally explaining this and going after donald trump, pushing back on these claims that either he or his son did something wrong. he's put an op-ed out, he has made, in press gaggles, made some remarks about this due not -- >> reporter: but not the future joe biden a lot of democrats wanted to see. >> theoretically. we just don't know yet if it's making that much difference. the reality is what impeachment

has done is frozen 2020 race in place. in some ways, that is good for joe biden, because we were starting to see him slipping in the early stage to elizabeth warren, she was gaining in the national polls, so to freeze that momentum would be good. it's also bad for the lower tier candidates trying to break through. but it's also not clear if because joe biden's name is in the news at all times, even with the words ukraine, son, appearance, that might be able to get into the minds of voters. >> reporter: tam, what is your sense about whether this really does matter out amongst voters? here in washington, everyone is talking about it constantly, but does it move the leaver for people to say i want to hear more about this than hong kong or whatever -- healthcare or whatever might be on their mind?

>> in terms of who the nominee is, it could be a nonissue ree.use all the candidates >> if you're for trump, you're for trump and if you're for the blue camp, you over for them, too. >> we have such division in this country that president trump is go out on the south lawn of the white house and say, ukraine, you should investigate joe biden, and china, you should investigate biden, he can stand out there and say smething that many people would not want to be caught in private saying, and republicans continue to stand behind him and, in part, that is team sports, that's because, you know, he's on the republican team and he went out there and said these things, so, oka i guess this is okay now. >> the group i'm watching are independent voters who their approval ratings of donald trump are very low, a little over 50%

disapprove of the job he's doing as president, but only about 40% say they want him to be impeached. so there's a gap between the folks who say i likely don't like him or i don't like the way he behaves, i don't like how he's serving as president, that doesn't mean that i want to see him imimpeached. where those folks go, to me, are the people to really watch. that would turn the tide one way or the other. >> right. tam, let's talk about what happened with bernie sanders last week. he has -- originally, we're told hehas chest discomfort. he goes to the hospital, he puts two stents in and a few days later it turns out they say, well, he actually did have a heart attack. does that matter, either the timing of how they rolled out this news or the simple cardiac event itself? >> there has been a lot of criticism of the way they handled it. the sanders campaign has been clearly defensive about that criticism and they have been coming back and saying, no, they were very transparent.

we put jane out, his wife, she talked. then once he wasreleased, they said, well, we said what it was. you know, that's three days. that is a long time to not know that the leading fundraiser in the democratic field had a heart tack, and there is a big difference sort of emotionally and in the way people feel between had two stents put in and had a heart attack. it's a big psychological difference, even if it's the same thing. >> yeah. >> reporter: do you have any sense of how this impacts his candidacy? >> well, i think his bigger challenge right now beyond this, which is obviously a health challenge, but his biggest political challenge, her name is elizabeth warren, and she has been really biting into his two main core support centers that he had in 2016 -- liberal voters, especially white liberal

voters -- and until he can find a way to get those voters back, which i don't think they're going, to that is a bigger challenge for him going forward. >> reporter: amy walter, tamara keith, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> nawaz: there's a firestorm of reaction to how the n.b.a. is handling a conflict between its business in china and its approach toward free speech and human rights. it started with a tweet from houston rockets general manager daryl morey that read "fight for freedom. stand with hong kong." that tweet prompted swift backlash from the chinese government and chinese business partners who pulled their money from the rockets. rockets owner tilman fertitta tweeted that morey didn't speak on behalf of the team. the n.b.a., which has spent years trying to develop its business in china, called morey's tweet "regrettable." morey went on to delete that original tweet and posted an apology, saying: "i did not

intend my tweet to cause any offense to rockets fans and friends of mine in china..." mike pesca is the host of slate magazine's podcast "the gist" and author of "upon further review: the greatest what-ifs in sports history." he joins me now. mike pesca, welcome to the "newshour". let's start with that n.b.a. statement. you tweeted calling it cowardly. adam silver is obviously being very careful with the language he's using. why do you think thn.b.a. is reacting the way that they are? >> well, yes, it's cowardly and shocking because, so far, adam silver in his tenure as commissioner has been progressive, has been on the right side of issues, has listened to the concerns of the players,d i would also say, by extension, employs like daryl morey. so much money is at stake. it's not just the perception that maybe there are potential customers we can't offend if we

take that social or political stance that is maybe dividing america. when it comes to china, n.b.a. china which is the branded entity is worth according to, an interview in forbes, $4 billion. ten cent which is the streaming service paid $1.5 billion to stream n.b.a. games over the next five years and i have to tell you, if you look at the market, 1.4 billion chinese potential customers means that game six of the n.b.a. finals last year was actually better watched in china thain t they don't have as much purchasing power, but this isn't just to him some hypothetical oh, there could be or might be some money on the line. there is a significant amount of money. that said, the response, the response by ownership and i think the shock and shameful response by adam silver just left a lot of jaws on the ground given really the dmin muse statement of support for these

hong kong protesters that daryl morey tweeted. >> nawaz: let me ask you about the response from the players. it's not rare to see n.b.a. players speaking out on issues that matter to them. they often wear protester, social justice t-shirts among warmup. lebron james is one of the most vocal critics of president trump, and cantor, of the boston celtics, has been a vocal critic of erdogan. we haven't seen much of a response from the players. do you think there has been a chilling effect to some degree from this reaction? >> we saw james harden, possibly certainly the best player in the n.b.a. and in the houston rockets, apologize. and we've also seen not just from players but an owner, a chinese -- a canadian-chinese owner of the brooklyn nets, joe cy, he put out a statement that

tried to explain how hurtful daryl morey's tweet was. but i just can't quite take that at face value because he did things like talk about hong kong being a separatist movement. i mean, these are chinese people asking for human rights, the same kind of first amendment rights or due process rights that americans have. and to bring it back to your questions about why is there this disconnect between men when were players protest or make a statement about american issues and daryl morey making a pretty -- a pretty gentle statement or obvious statement about hong kong, it just shows the extreme sensitivities of china. it's the difference what if you make a criticism in a free society like the united states, or a criticism of an autocratic society for being autocratic like china, and i know china gives the n.b.a. a lot of money, but it comes at a cost. we're seeing the cost.

>> reporter: we have less than a minute left, mike, but how does the n.b.a. move forward. they have a huge existin market in china. adam silver qualified his reactors today to say daryl morey is supported in terms of his ability to exercise his freedom of expression. can they continue to walk that line? >> well, i think what adam silver want do is make it go away. i think he does not want the rockets to fire really one to have the great g.m.s in the sport and a very smart person and a spern whose influence goes beyond the sport, so that's number one. number two, i think adam silver will try to say the right things for both his constituencies, the u.s. and chinese audience. perhaps he was surprised by the backlash but really shouldn't have been because what daryl morey did was, as i said, was pretty deminimis, and if you think it's a true controversy between the repressive regime of china and what the protesters

are standing for you don't know the real meaning of controversy, i would say. >> nawaz: mike pesca, co-host of slate magazine's podcast "the gist," thanks so much for your time. you're welcome. >> nawaz: blues, rock, and soul artist gary clark jr. opened the 45th season of pbs's "austin city limits" on saturday night. the hometown favorite has gained a worldwide following in the last couple of years. jeffrey brown recently joined clark on the road in richmond, virginia to see how the grammy winner keeps capturing fans-- and headlines. it's part of our ongoing series on arts and culture, "canvas." >> ♪ paranoid and pissed off now that i got the money >> reporter: in the title song of his latest album "this land," gary clark jr. sounds an angry ♪ fifty acres and a model a right in the middle of trump country. ♪ cry about the racism and hatred

he sees in america today, and a confroation he himself had with a white neighbor r bought a new ranch outside h hometown of austin, texas. >> ♪ go back where you come fr we don't want ♪ we don't want your kind this is where i come from. ♪ this land is mine th land is mine. ♪ basically "this land" is me saying, yeah, there's all this around, but forget everybody, nobody can bring you down in your head. nobody can make you feel less than. nobody can make you feel not equal to. be strong, be proud be humble, but don't let them break you. >> ♪ go back where you come from >> reporter: clark is on tour singing "this land"; we joined him at a concert at the historic national theater in richmond, virginia. ♪ this land is mine

but the song's tense sound and lyrics are just one emotional tone for a man now reaching ever-larger audiences with his guitar and musical wizardry. ♪ ♪ on the tour bus, it turns out, the band relaxes watching golf tournaments. do you like this? the traveling life? >> yeah, i mean i used to go to concerts all the time and go hang out at antone's and you'd see the bus pull up and the band hopped off the bus and, "what goes on in there?" you know, golf. >> reporter: clark is a proud product of austin's famed 6th street music scene-- one club after another, a wide variety of live music. he got his first guitar at 12 and was quickly grabbed by the blues where, still in middle school, he found an immediate home. >> it had this raw thing, and there was guitar players up front and there was lead guitar playing that was improvisation. and when i saw these people playing blues, and when i went

down to that blues club, it was filled up with smoke. and those old guys are cool with their leather jackets, stratocasters and amps. part of this."an, i want to be and they welcomed us... being 14 years old, to have your elders welcome you and be excited. >> reporter: they probably didn't have too many 14 ar olds coming to... >> no, they didn't have any at all, really. >> reporter: the welcoming into the blues community would culminate some years later, in 2010, when clark was invited by eric clapton to perform at his legendary crossroads festival. ♪ you're going to know my name. ♪ ♪ y're going to know my name. ♪ it meant something to me. i felt like i was part of something. >> reporter: a brilliant guitarist, but backstage during

sound-check in richmond, the 35- year-old clark told me he'd never actually taken a formal lesson, and much of his education came from watching guitar greats on the venerable pbs program "austin city limits." >> yeah, just dub the tape and watch it over. put it on pause, rewind, and see what the chord shapes were. play it in slow motion. >> reporter: and who were you listening to, who were you watching? >> i was watching stevie ray vaughan, jimmie vaughan, eric clapton, b.b. king, buddy guy, robert cray, and bonnie raitt. >> reporter: he would play at the white house in 2012, win a grammy two years later. but clark never saw himself as limited to the blues and had begun to feel constrained by what the world expected or wanted from him. his newest album, his third studio recording, is his most varied statement yet, a broad palette of sounds, including: reggae... ♪

a prince-like falsetto... ♪ straight ahead chuck berry roc¡' n' roll riffs... ♪ and still some blistering blues... >> yeah, it was just pick a color and start painting. let's see what happens. i felt like i was just ready to just bust out running and i didn't see anybody else doing it. i just took that approach. >> reporter: these days, clark is paying back his austin roots, mentoring younger local musicians like the peterson brothers, who he took on the road with him as an opening act. ♪ and also now in his music: the hopes and fears of being a parent. clark and his wife, nicole have two young children.

he says that, and the world they're growing up in, make him want his music to reach deeper and have greater impact. >> it's because of the tension and social climate, race retions and the fear of the unknown. how do i maneuver through that and teach my kids how to be strong and to keep teaching my kids how to be loving in the world that can be so cruel? >> reporter: for the "pbs newshour," i'm jeffrey brown in richmond, virginia. ( cheers and applause ) >> nawaz: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm amna nawaz. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> bnsf railway.

>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> the ford foundation. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captio

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♪ ♪ ♪ -today on "cook's country"... natalie makes bridget the best cast-iron baked chicken... jack challenges julia to a tasting of hot sajue... and ashley makes julia a perfect blueberry cornbread.