robert: the impeachment debate heats up and the psident tests his own party. president trump: from day one, the wretcd washington swamp has been trying to nullify the results of a truly great and democratic election, the election of 2016. they're trying. they're not getting very far. robert: president trump remains defiant. but the impeachment debate takes sharp turns. close associates of his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, are indicted raising new questions about mr. trump's foreign policy. >> harness, on behalf of then ukrainovernment official, lobby congressman one to then u.s.-ambassador tokraine.e

robert: and turkish forces pound northern syria, after mr. trump's sudden decision to pull out u.s. tops, republican rift emerge. next. announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- >>re's a momt, a moment where everything isel clear. at fy, wealth planning is yout clarity, knowing who you are, whe w you've been, and where you want to go. management.ty wealth >> additional funding is provided by -- koo and patrici p yuen, through the yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our commities. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by cbytributions to your pbs station from vie vrs like iku. thank you.

once again, from washington, moderator robert costa. robert:good evening. what began just weeks ago ashm n impet inquiry into president trump's phone call with the ukrainian president is quicy eing into a full-fledged investigation of prident trump's use of power. new congressional testimony this week painted a fuller picture r house democrats of the president's shadow diplomacy. and on friday, marie of the foreign service,ce who ws recalled as the u.s. ambassador to ukraine i may, appeared on capitol hil h at risk of losing her job, she ld house investigators that a state department official told hethat the president had long pushed for her ouster even though the state department did not have cause to remove her. ambassador yovanovitch warned congress that psonal and

private agendas are driving u.s. foreig policy, a nod towards rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer. that testimony cmoes amid mounting questions about giuliani andia president trump's role in his efforts abroad. two of giuliani's business associates were chaed with campaign finance violations this week by federal prosecutors.rswh e the indictment did not accuse the psident of wrongdoing, these two men were involvedn giuliani's campaign to pressure ukrai to investigate the t biden fily. amid this onslaught of developments, the white house is fighting back. white houseou council sent a letter to house democrats this week saying the proat "vi fundamental frness and constitutionallyue mandated process" and said the white use would not comply wndh de joining me tonight, margaret brennan, moderator of face the nation and cbs news senior foreign affairs correspondent,

carl hulse of "t new york times" and author "confirmationio biani" toluse olor of "the washington post," and abby phillip, white house correspondent for c when we look at this ambassador's testimony, yovanovitch, a 33-year veteran, bringing her expertise to capitol hill, how significant is it for her to say this president was operating outsidof the chain of command with rudy giuliani? maaret: it w testimony to read and it was incredibly moving for many of the state department national security officials who worked with her. this was a three-time ambassador, 33 years of service. she served the country aund the world and one of the most moving parts of h testimony was saying, you know, at these moments, youau think, b you have the american taxpayer's back,rotecting u.s. interests, that they'll have yours and instead she was personally tacked, removed from her job. what she laid out in this

testimony is exactly whatly you said. being pushed in these shadowy policies by rudy giuliani, the president's attorney, it is political interests and it is undermining, she argued i that testimony, to american democracy and our institutions. so we have other diplomats we know who are. poised to testi we also have fiona hill,ormer national security council ficial, testifying on monday. i'm told this will b the divide saying we had nothing to do with this, this is a project for the present tha t had nothing to do withth american national securi. inside the cabinet allow thate project to happen, to allow the prident to freelance with snruj what's -- rudy giuliani? what's going on inside? toluse: th president wanted to do it so he did it. the guardrails ofhe past are gone. the presidentgo doess what he

wants. rudy giulian h g a close relationship with the president. he feels the -- the president feels there are only a certain number of people he can trust. he doesn't feel he can trust the people within the government. bo talked the deep state those working against his interest so he called his trusted lawyer has been with him throughout the various battles including the mueller investigation and said he wantse to investihat happened in 2016 and the conspiracy theory that ukraine was involved in election meddling and i want ukraine to investigate joe biden and healhe -- hunter biden and k into theseeg aions. robert: so it just happens? toluse: yes, the president wants to do it and it happens. we see from text messages drom state department officials, they tried to find ways to contain the damage and make it not as bad as it would be if rudy giuliani didot have guidance but now it doesn'took very good. robert: abbey, the president

says he can't trust the so-called deep state or bureaucrats yet he trusts rudy giuliani and others who are not foreigservice officers who take the oathat to uphold the constitution and represent u.s. interests. y the pull outside of the usl chain of comma? : you hit it head-on, the presidt doesn't trust the government that he runs. he believes there's a dp layer underneath the top layer of people he can't trust, not just innc the intelli community, which he's been vocal about, but also in the state departmen and other federal agencies so he has leaned on giuliani,omeone he's known personally for a long time -- this week he's claimed he didn't kno t two other gentlemen who were charged this week.er but heinly was around them and giuliani was clearly working oncert with these two men to push a certaingenda on the

president. one other piece of context in all of this as toluse alluded to, the guard rai are gone. year or so sinceas the president had an acting chief of sta s, mick mulvay, white house sources talk abo try to contain t president. trump has never been a paragon olof self con but other chiefs of staff have tried more to keep at least a handle o who he's tae'ing to, when talking to them and how the government is actually wor wng at the president's direction. he doesn't have aef of staff doing that right now. robert: carl, a says the guard rails are gone, based on her reportie. th is one guardrail in .ashington. congress has oversight of the executive. if you're speak sakelosi, based on your reporting tonight, is she going to try to expand this impeachment probe beyond the ukrainian matter? she's hearing from the top officials testifying. we're going to hear from the

e.u. ambassador gordon sonla next week. how ds hdl h this development? carl: i think there is perssure on to expand this and plus the syria situation figur in that. she wants to keep it narrowly focused and move quicklyly and t complicate things. robert: why not? carl: they need to go faster. the moree you expd it, the mor time is consumed. virtuall everyoneal i'ved to on capitol hill this week says they would like to see this eoncludedy thend of the year. if youroen it too much,uc it gets too big. t nk in some ways the trump administration is making it easier for the democrats if t they're goi get into this position where they're just not going to cooperate at all. everyone thought tha letter was totally out of left field, no constitutional foundation thereg allohe democrats to say they can add is that to the

impeachment count, the obstructio they're tired of the stonewalling bert: maaret, wn you think of the forgn polic establishment in the state department, they have secretary pompeohere. what's their view? you've covered the state. departme what's the mood instead of foggy bottom at the sta department as they deal with secretary pompeo and president trump's conduct? margaret: secretary pompeoar lis swagger to the department and the only swagger you heard people saying they saw was the ambassador walking into congres today to deliver that testimony. a subpoena had to be delivered to put her in a position to appear because she's required a foreign service officre not just to serve the oath she made to the constitutional but abide by a subpoena delivered by congress. in h words, in that testimony, described a hollowed without

from within department. and i thinkhat's the bigger picture worry that i hear not just from diplomats in this country but from around the world -- our european partners who s who do i talk to? who is professiossl? and where is the institution? robert: who are the turning to? rudy giuliani? margaret: is where it comes toth, these individuals who are empered to carry messages for the predent to deliver conversations, whatever the aim is, if it'ssu political ms or not, are not taxpayer funded people who have tak an oath to th constitution who are trained for years aforeign service officers are in how to conduct diplomacy, how to speak the language and how to use proper channels. those guard rails are often dismissedru by the administration as slowing things down. but those things are tore t protect. process is meant to ptect the end goal, to get yo t the ,oreign policy end game.

robert: tolut's important to note that as much as there's real concern inside the administration from officials like the ambassador, you have p thesident as provocative and trail this week. on the campaign here are some moments from a rally in minnesota thursday. president trump: the dts' brazen attempt to overthrow our government will produce a backlash at the ballot box the likes of which they have never, ever seen befe in the history of t this country. so in a desperate attempt to attack our movement, nancy and chuck, tk, beauties, have given control of the democratic party entirely over to the radical left, including minnesota's own representative, omar. the democratic extremists have gone so far lefy that t believbe it should not be a crie to cross our border illegally and it should be a crimee to h

a totally appropriate casual, beautiful, accurate phone call with a foreigneader. i don't think so. robert: toluse, does that capture this white house's strategy or notgy toluse: that's completely their herategy, a base-first strategy, catering to the president's base by saying the democts want to overthrow what happened in 2016 and the democrats want to perform a coup, stringent language by the president of ths unittes, trying to paite his opponents as not only opposed to him but unpatriotic, trying to subvert his government. paand i think that' of why he's trying to make himself a victim because he bieves that rallies his troops a gops people excited withinhe base of his party. the polling that we've seen is showing it's not helping among independents, that people are starting to move awaprfrom the ident. we have h a majority of people supporting impeachment in a number of different pol but he's made his choice that he's going t focus on his base all

the way through 2020. robert: abby, you have to wonder, dolo republicans go at this crossroads, this impeachment crossroad legislatessors are on recess confronted biconstituents and reporters. corey gardener faced questions this week about psident trump's pressuring of foreign nations. president to ask foreign a government. >> we're going to have an investation, a nonpartisan investigatio it's an answer you geta fro serious investigation. >> would you be ok if it was a democrat asking a foreign government to iestigate -- fthe media jump to a partisan serious use a tool in the constitution. this is i about an investigation taking placen the senate intelligence committee. that's where it should be. what we've seen from rhe house ofresentatives and nancy pelosi is a partisan, rartisannized effort. robe : sena gardner is

usually one of theon happiest characters on capitol hill but a grim scene for him facing re-election. what does it te you about the republican party? abby: you can see the str ss on hisace. it's a hardto argumen make. he's making a process case that it's unfair to p thesident have a different process to evaluate this. but he knows, liketherth republicans know, the facts are not on their side in this case. president trump's argument too his base that it was a beautiful, perfect, cordial, appropriate call, i not backed up by the tracript he released. i do think in thisnl casee the mueller investigation, it's ve easy to wrap your arms around what happened here. that's one of the reasons why nancy peli has been so eag to keep it simple because the facts, as simple as they are, are not great for the president and i think that's one of the reasons you've seen the polls move. it's also another reason why privately,epubcans are very, ry nervous abo where thiis

heading and how long theyyco can inue to do what corey gardner just did. carl: in some ways to me the s the tougher for senate republiubns in tough races because the people they need to appealo are independents especially in colorado, arizona -- it's going to be hard for them. and now there's this specter of criminal indictments and people doint know what's on or understand campaign electionn lw but tre's people held on bond and iplhink people are starting to go, well, white house is trying toutrazen this and now it looks pretty serious. robert: when you say people, where's chairman richardurr of north carolina from the senate intelligence commiee a senator lamar alexander of tennessee. carl: they've been on recess. robert: and they've been quiet. where are they? carl: i think they are still not ere. i think what you'll hearrom a lot o senate republicans like lamar alender,ho people are

looking to to say, he'sot running again, maybe they'll do it. i think they'll say this unappropriate, it's not impeachable, the democrats are rushg ahead. t as more of these things come out -- i have been here for impeachmact before. things tend to take on a life of their own. margaret: i think it's interesting to seehe talki points. the person speaking over thein person a the question as corey gardner just did there because if youe hear the c made, maybe you have toddress the point of the question, instead of frame ts alls paisan, which allows you to tune out the substance of what is described. so there's not actually a conversation about what the president has done or said and as you heard, the president, even this week, confirmed he does wan china to invtigate even tugh the republican talking point had been it wasasa

joke. robe: the republicans are being vocal on another front. presidenttmp announced this ek a u.s. troop withdrawal from northern syria,t marking a shift in american foreign policy. days later, turkey launched a milita opetion in the area targeting a u.s. ally in the fight against isis, the kurds. turkish president erdogan threatened to send troops over ere border to create afere b zone. many republicans were outraged by the m presidente and kurds.out about betrayal by t the group includ evangelical christian leaders. senator lindsey graham introduced a bipartisan resolution this week to put sanctions on turkey and tweeted friday "every ccern iad about president trump's syria decision is coming true in spades. the re-emergence of isis is on the way."s even the president stood by his decision, his administratdmn

has not embced turkey's aggression. here's what defense sec sry markey sper said faiday. >> oppose and are greatly disappointed by turkey's decision to launch a unilateral military incursion intoorthern syrith opera puts our s.d.f. partners in harm's way. it risks the security of isis prison camps a will further destabilize the region. robert: the president said sanctions are on the table pending on how the station unfolds. toluse, the president didn't consult with u.s.id allies,t consult with many within his own government. why did he make ts decision? toluse: if you listen to the president, he says he wants to endss wars. that has alws been his middle east. g he believes going in was a big miake and we spent a bunch of money since there but why h did it is thereheren't the guard rails you would have in a white house with a chief of staff

workin through t interagency process. president is operating on his own. he gets on t pho wit w t leader of turkey, makes a compelling case to the president and theresidentde says we'll ll out troops and let the t chips fall where they may. now thehe administration is scrambling to come up with a policy based on that. robert: and the kurds are scrambling. >> our allies on theatefield who the u.s. had been assisting an continue to be. there continue to be troops in syria, they just moved back from the turkey-syriaorder so when the president said yesterday there are no troops there, that's not accurate. three artilleryry shells hit cll to the u.s. outpost becauseaus turkey targeting the kurds, our allies there. this is a bigger symbol and theme of abandoning allies so the abandonment of the kurds in terms of pulling back was seen as a gen light.

i'm told president trump eves he made the right call and you will have the pentagon say we didn't abandon the kurds, we're trying toroker something but the reality is turkey is carrying this out becau u.s. troops moved back to avoid fire. there were only, as pompeo said toy, about 6 gs or so on the ground. that's not to stop a turkish invasion but the u.sld air force w and the u.s. air force was controlling that airspace. the u.s. stopped, allow ag i the incursion and as toluse said,here a retrofitting of policy to now match what the president agreed to on tha call which was simply he cannot get erdogan to back down and it abby: and he tweeted -- it's hard for the record -- the administration to back off of this becausehe president tweeted he gave erdogan this.ward with at the white house today, the treasury secretary came out andv said we the ability to punish turkey in the future, possibly, if we decide toato

ut we're not going to do that right now. it's something of an empty threat because it doeothing to resolve the situation on the ground and it actually, in some ways, mht make it more difficult for people to take the white house seriouslyhen they say, don't dohis or else. they basicallyas darmed themselves today in the press heconference this morning they announced they had the tools to do this but they weren't going to use them. carl: what dissonance to hear the defense secretary to a say we'rinst it but it's a policy that the president approved and caused. 's a very big disconnect. margaret: and the national security comtynity would argue out, let's negotiate how thatack happens, when it happens, in a way to continue too protect interests. when you take out troops, you give up leverage. robert: what does it mean for syria and russia? margaret: it's a huge gain.th 's the right q'sstion. who wins on the battlefield? thiss i now there are russian

influences, iranian influences and it is only the benre when t a vacuum because kurdish forces no longer turning guns on isis fighters but defending their own lives. toluse: they do belie russia will benefit and iran will benefit and will be against u.s. residents because trump made a decision in an abrupt away that doesn't seem he heard from advisers or go through the interagency process and you're seeing republicans brk from himn a way we don't normally see. they'r usually afraidclo e flnds this president -- independence from this president cbut in thise t republicans are breaking from h and things lo chaotic at the white house. robert: does that tell you that his relationship with the g.o.p. is more fgile than the surface? if they're speaking out,

evanlical christians and republican hawks? toluse: i think there's a lot of exhaustion with thishi presiden. core gardner having to explain what t president is doing, twistingnt himself knots to defend him on a number of issues. so on this clear poly objection they have, i was easy for them to speak out. i do think the president has ang st stranglehold on the party because the republican lawmakers need his pry voters and are afraid of the base. impeachment -- robert: could they take t actio, carl? carl: i think there will be action in congres c there ll be very bipartisan action in the housend the senate. they want to respond to this. though, it's like, are they going to be willing to manhe barricades on impeachment to th? same deg we saw an illinois congressman this week she take me off upst of people who support trump. that's just one person but do you really want to go as hard as

they think they know more about this than the president does. robert: wh do your republican sources tell you, abby? does this move on syria make them unsettled? less willing to go to the barricades as carl said? igny: it feels like on fo policy -- syria's not the only place where this has happened -- ngpublicans have been wil to onsh back on the president. they did it when the president delayed imposing russian sanctions. they've done it repeatedly on foign policy because i think they believe this is where their se is willing to let the w breah him on some issue s robert: thanks for sharing your friday night with us on "washington week." i appreciatewet.re ave to leave it there. our "washington week extra" is coming up on wursite, facebook and youtube. we'll discuss the challenges facing vice presidentence as impeachment and foreign policy debates heat up. i'm robert costa. ha a great weekend.

[captioning performed byhe national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org.] announcer: corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by -- additional funding is pridedov by -- koo anpatricia yuen through the en foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corporation for pu broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers le you. thank yo -i think between us,

we'v-gluttony. match.even of the de-lust.ins. i mean, some of these buns are very attractive. -sloth. -pies. pies. -wrath. yeah, paul's got that covered. -envy. oh, now, did deborah steal howard'sustard? -and pride. and... ss goodnly knows we've got precious little of that left. -last time... -ooh, no, it's terribly wrong. -...sweet dough proved bitter for some. fo -ohh. ch -i can't taste the pea -and howard's timen the tent was up -bye. -it should have been me. r -butuby's sweet buns... -they're delicious. -...saw her crowned star baker -.for the second time. now the remaining six bakers face pastry marathon. -it's gonna be very tight. -that was perfect, though. -...that brings back the horrors of school dinners.