po captioning snsored by newshour productions, llc i'm william branghevening. judy woodruff is away. on the newshour tonight, in their own words. the u.s. house releases the one revises his testimony to rly link military aid to ukraine to investigation requests by the president's thwyer. , degrees of isolation. the u.s. begins the formal process of pulling out of the paris climate accord, fueling anxieties about addressing the climate crisis. and, rejecting hate. a former white nationalist and ren of a klansman on how he was ued from that worldview, and how others can walk away from a lethal ideology. >> fear is the leading driver of people joining the white nationalist movement. it's this idea that they're

threatened. that they are losi something. that they're being attacked. it's all this stuff that'sfor the record, not real. >> brangham: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> consumer cellular believes that wireless plans should usflect the amount of talk, text and data that yo we offer a variety of no- contract wireless plans for nsumercellular.tvoything in >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: m >> this progs made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting.

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ra >>ham: on the record-- the public phase of the dpeachment inquiry escalates. lijardins explns how a miearer picture is emerging of the trump stration's approach to ukraine from those at the center of the storm. >> desjardins: at the capitol, the impeachment battle, for now, is on paper. but noess intense as today, committees released transcripts of two key witnesses. they are gordon sondland, the u.s. ambassador to the european union and kurt volker, former special envoy to ukraine. both were lead officials for ukraine policy. in the 739 pages released today, among the headlines: sondland revised a critical piece of

testimony about whether the u.s. tied nearly $400 million in aid money to specific demands from ukraine. yesterday, sondland filed this, saying he now remembers telling a top ukrainian official that lesumption of (millions) in u.s. aid wouely not occur until ukraine provided the corruption statement..." e u.s. wanted, saying ukraine tiuld investigate the 2016 el and the energy company dlich hired hunter biden. a second he: sondland insisted the president himself quo.ly did not want a quid pro and one more key point-- the sicontinued influence of pnt attorney rudy giuliani whose name appears more than 150 times in sondland's testimony. sondland is a pivotal characte, nominated by mr. trump to be the ambassador to the e.u. in 2017 and has previoly owned a boutique hotel chain on the west coast. and he is a longtime.o.p. donor who had given one million

dollars to mr. trump's inaugural fund. while ukraine is not in the european union, sondland has said the president tapped him to work on the issue. he ss there were "three amigos" working on that policy, himself, energy secretary rick perry, and volker, whose career path sharply contrasts with the other two. he is a three-decade diplomat who has served underemocratic and republican presidents president george w. bush named him to be the u. representative to nato. and in 2017, president trump named him to be the envoy helping lead ukraine policy. he resigned in september. today's transcripts show volker arguing against a biden investigation and trying to win over a president who deeply distrusted ukraine. former ukrainian lawmaker serhii leshenko, who worked with volker for years, said he sees a diplomat trying to straddle sharp politics and good policy. >> we see that kurt volker was

trying to maneuver to be effect as the special envoy and at the same time to be accepted by white house, and my understanding, he decided to give whatrump was looking for >> desjardins: overall, democrats say the transcripts only bolster their case that mr. trump withheld military ppd and other t for ukraine to pressure president zelenskyy into opening invesgations that could benefit him politically. but republicans have insisted democrats have selectively leaked and withheld information, in order to malign the president. >> what all of us want is a fair process. >> desjardins: meantime, the >> today mick mulvaney got a requesfrom thenvestigate committees for testimony later this week. thus far, cabinet offlsciahave declined these kinds of requests, as did two other trump individuals who.

>> i will say i'm pretty sure if it were today, i don't think there's any question it would not lead tie removal. >> one t hingconnell doesn't know is how long any >> brangham: to helpke sense of what these transcripts mean for the impeachment inquiry i'm joined by our own nick schifrin and lisa desjardins wel investigation.llowing the welcome back to you both. thank you again for 54ing poring through all of these transcs pts. lelk about the changes sondland made to his testimony. how significant are they? what are the l? t me use a prop to explain. this is the full-- sondand's testimony. >> that's your day today. >> this is our day today, part of it. of this, it's really these fe pages we're talking about, his revisions. it speaks to his idea of whether there was a quid pro quo.ok let's t what he changed here. first of all, he said before

today, he did not recall any conversations where he was tying aid to these investigations of the bidens in016. his revision, however, now, he says he does remember talking with a leading ukrainian, really the contact point for president zelensky. and he also said now he does remember specifically telling the zelensky aide that aid was unlikely unless they maid statement saying that ukraine would investigate 2016 and also the bidens. so this really speaks to the idea of whether the u.s. was demanding something from ukraine in exchange for aid money. gordon sondland's testimony is he personally did tell themat >> that's a pretty big revision today to see. nick, zoom out little bit more. tell us a little bit more about sondland. he was a sirpt of the president, as lisa reported, a big g.o.p. donor. he's bane defender of the president all along as well. >> supportive of the president, defender of the president, and

somee who had access to the president, really the only one we've been talking about who president.talked to the he testified that he talked to the president three times specifically about this, and that each of those times, the president did nt ontion vice president biden. and sondland was asked at one point in this story by another diplomat, hey, this seems crazy. is the president really withholding aid befe ukraine investigates biden? so he called the president, and we saw what he said on that phone call with the president. he said, "i asked thent presi an open-understanded question' fat do you wantrom ukraine'. he said, "i want nothing. no quinpro quo i want zey to do the right thing. and i said what does that mean? and he said i want him to do what he ran on and that is the end of the conversation. that is what the president was saying today. there was no quid pro quo at all resident told sondland this, and not only that, that the ukrainians didn't ow that theresident had actually withheld any of this and that's where the timeline

that lisa comes in is so important. one month after that phone call, we see sondlteand now adm that he did tell the ukrainians, the timeline of that revision is so important. >> lisa, about this timeline that nick is talking about, that's something elseour team noticed in these transcripts, some interesting timing-related issues there. >> sondland says very specifically that for a long time what, he knew washere a general corruption investigation. we wanted ukraine to be less t corruphat that was the push. but he says in his testimony-- let's look-- that in fact, something changed, as he knew taround august, and that that thing that changedwas the general corruption concern became concern abot 2016 and burisma. so this idea of changing how skraine operates, makin making l corrupt, shifted into a specific concern about these two investigations. now, as to timeline that nick is talk about, what's amazing about l this, is that that same day that he himself, sondland, sayse

he told ukrainians, "hey, we have to now get these investigations "that he says are now front and center "proof from you that you're doing them," president pence was meeting with president zelensky in poland. now, whonows whether mike pence knew anything or not, but this is the reason that conversation happened. and we see h.r. a key aide that someone wanhesere aware investigations front and center. and he says this to the rainians on that day. >> so interesting. nick, let's step back again to ambassador volker. he wasloorkingely with ukrainian officials throughout this process. what did he say about whatth were doing with regards to these corruption investigations. >> he makes the same distinction that lisa was just making that sondland makes, betien vanlla corruption, and let's call it not so vanilla corruption. the vanilla corruption fucialg is what the u.s. has been going after the last five year. the obama administration, the trump administration--, all

wanted ukraine to tackle endemic corruption. under the business that effort was led by vice president biden same targets under the trump administration. what changed was rudy giuliani. this was not vanilla. he want an invtigation into whether ukraine hacked into the. in 2016, which the u.s. intelligence community says is not what happened.d wanted investigation into burisma, this ukrainian company ere hunter biden was on the board. what volker testified today was the ukrainians who were telling juul this, who were kind of whispering into his ear and egging him o that they were self-serving, that they actually were hoping appear important and telling juul what he thought they wanted, what they thought he wanted to hear in order to bymehow save their jobs or be seen as usefuhe trump administration purpose volkerce testified resident biden was not corrupt. the ukrainianwho worked with

dismim hunter bind, the ukrainian corruption, that's what everyone wanted investigated, until juultepped in. and it ended up that we had this temporary hold onilitary aid and we're investigating this and talkintalking about this right . >> it's picture of many outside forces manipulating u.s. policy, not necessarily-- notpl the mats in this testimony. yo lisa desjardins, nick schifrin, thanagain for getting us up to speed on all of this. >> brangham: now we want to turn to how the trump administration is reacting to this latest release of transcripts. i'm joined by our white hot e correspondmiche alcindor. yamiche, so this is the second y of transcripts that have come out. i know you have been tracking how the fromhe has been reacting to this. and i also understand you have been in touch with gordonnd nd, the gentleman we have been hearing about from these leasa and nick, his aorney as well. what you can tell bus their reactions to all this? >> the white house is essentially saying these two transcripts really prove president trump shoua not be target of an impeantch

inquiry. let me read to you what white house press sephretary sanie grisham put out a couple of minutes ago. "both transcripts released today though there is even lesevidence for this illegitimate spoovment sham previous thought." she goes on to say gordon sondla sondland being the e.u. ambassador-- he didn't know the actual details of t military aid being held up by ukraine. say something different. today they say he was actual alone an official tuke ukraine officials about thattary aid being tied to the investigation of the bidens or that wanted the investigation of the bidens. then you have the white house einting to kurt volker, who was the u.s.oy to ukraine. and they say that essentially he said ukrainians dn't know that this money was being held up, so there couldn't be a quid pro quo. now we know that ukraine knew as early as august that this was something at was holding up had money, this investigation of the bidens that president trump wanted. it's important to also point to

kind of someonflicting facts in these transcripts. these transcripts really are about both parties booing able to pick and choose what they want to make thr party look good. if you look at kind of what gordon sondland said to the investigators-- i'm going to read another exchange, "i testified it would be improper to do that" that's military aid being connected to the investigation of the biden. "and illegal, right?" "i'm not lawyer, but i assume so." then kurt volker says, "i was surprised"-- that was when he was talking about the call between president trumand the president of ukraine." "were you troubled at all by what you read?" "yes." aslet white house is essentially pointing toayhe testimonyng they prove our case, democrats s are saying actually it proves the president was involved in a quid pro quo, and gordon sondland's attorney essentially told me he didn't want to go too far past what gordon sondland put out, but he said essentially it would be wrong for people to read into this that gordon sondlandas really trying to correct himself and was really

trying to say he had some sort of ulterior motive. >> yamiche, i know you have been track the president since he basement presdent. these accumulated transcripts do give us a window into how he runs his foreign policy. i wonder what sense you'reof gettinhe view this has of the president's policy and the people enacting that policy. >> this really shows that president trump really takes foreign policy personally. at both transcripts he's heard as saying kraine was filled with bad people that tried to thaij down and were really trying to hurt his016 presidential campaign. democrats say that's a debunked claim. we have a essentially a president saying this country tes trying to go me and as a result i don't like these people. i> we know the president has been railing ast this. has he said anything about these most recent developmests? >> the ent has been making his case to the american public in allies. just yesterday, he was in

kentucky, trying to get people to support governor there who is up for re-election tonight. here's what he had to say: >> the bidens got richhie america was robbed. and let me tell you, the fake news will not put it in. what's unsubstantiated? he is on tape dng a real da quiser. >> yamiche, thank you very much. >> there's no evidence of joe biden doing any, wrongdoit that's pretty much all you can say about that, but there's no idenence of what the pres was just saying. >> all right, yamiche alcindor, as always, thank you. >> brangham: in the day's other news, three american women and sinof their children have b brutally killed in an ambush in northern mexico. they were members of a breakaway group fromhe church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. the attack took place monday on

a dirt road between chihuahua ansonora states, about 75 miles south of the u.s. border. amateur video showed one of their burned vicles. mexican officials are investigating the possibility this was a case of mistaken roentity, given the number of violent coations among warring drug gangs in that area. president trump spoke to the mexican president by phone reday, and offered unspecified u.s. help "to enhe perpetrators face justice". gubern elections are taking place in four states today, and they're seen by many as a bellwether for 2020. in kentucky, republican governor matt bevin will try to hold off democratic attorney general andy mississippi's gubernatorial race pits republican lieutenant governor tate rees against democratic attorney general jim hood. and in virginia, republican control of the state legislature is up for grabs, while democrats in new jersey's state legislature are looking to keep thr super-majorities.

iran announced plans today tohe violate yet anaspect of oue 2015 nuclear pact. president hassanni said tehran will start injecting uranium gas into morthan a thousand centrifuges at its "fordo" nuclear facility. that move would make fordo an active atomic site, rather than the research facility iran agreed it would be, as part of the accord with world powers. s ( translated ): we are aware of thesitiveness towards the fordo facility and those centrifuges. at the same time, we cnot tolerate unilateral fulfillment of our commitments and no commitment from their side. brangham: president rouhani said the action is reversible if europe offers relief from u.s. sanctions. the u.s. withdrew from the nuclear pact last year. today's announcement came a day anter iran said it's running twice as madvanced centrifuges as before. enriching nuclear material. semen's government and

ratist forces signed a power-sharing deal today to halt months of infighting in the country's war-torn south. leaders from the pro-government coalition and the separatist uthern transitional council signed the saudi-brokered pact during a ceremony in riyadh. the deal would pave the way for a new cabinet and allow yemen's exiled president to to ers country. in souiraq today, security forces shot and killed three anti-government demonstrators. at least 13 people have died in protest-related violence across the country since yesterday. in baghdad tay, protesters massed on a bridge to block access to key government buildings. they occupied streets and set up barricades, but stressed it s security forces inciting the (olence. translated ): they are pushing demonstrators toward violence. the protests are peaceful. they killed protesters last night, offended people and pushed them toward violence. until the last seconour revolution is peaceful, not aimed at violence. reolence generates a violent

tion. >> brangham: iraqi security forces have kied more than 260 anti-government protesters since october 1. back in this countrya colorado in is in federal custody for his roa bomb plot that targeted a synagogue south of rcnver. uner f.b.i. agents who arrested him friday said he espoused anti-semitic and white supremacist beliefs. he appeared in federal court yesterday, and was charged with oumestic terrorism. he face up to 20 years in prison. we'll get an inside look at the white nationalist mo later in the program. jury selection began today in mee criminal trial of president trump's longtionfidant, roger stone. he arrived at the washington court this morning to face charges stemming from former special counsel robert mueller's investigation into russian interference in the 2016 elecston. e is accused of lying to congress, witness tampering and obstructioof justice. he pled not guilty to those charges in january. if convicted on l counts, he could face up to 20 years in

prison. tocks finished relatively flat on wall streay. the dow jones industrial average gained 30 pots to a new record closing high of 27,492. the nasdaq rose point, and the s&p 500 slipped three. d a passing to note: acclaimed novelist ernt j. gaines has died. he was born in segregated louisiana, and did not start his work largely captured black struggle and perseverance in the pre-civil rights era south. gaines received the macarthur genius grant for his 1993 novel "a lesson before dying." he also penned "the autobiography of miss jane pittman" and "a gathering of old men." ernest gaines was 86 years old. still to come on the newshour: the world watches ounting anxiety as the u.s. formally withdraws from the paris climate agreement. edy the governor of oklahoma sign off on the largest single-day prisoner release in u.s. history. when in doubt, pick "c"-- the

growing movement against standarded tests in college admissions. and much more. >> brangham: the timing is lost on no one. the president notified the rest of the world again yesterday that one year from nowday after the 2020 elections, the u.s. will formally withdraw from the paris climate agreement. that's the voluntary glol accord signed in 2015 by nearly 200 nations to cut greenhouse gases to slow the warminof our planet. the u.s. is the second largest carbon emitter in the world, behind china. diplomacy, negotiated during president obama's tenure, that was crucial to getting china and india to reduce their emissions. but president trump, who has

mocked the idea of climate enange, has long maintained the agrewas a bad one, one that would stunt america's economic growth. so let's look at theconsequence. negotiator for president obama.e e 's now a senior fellow with rld resources institute n.d the brookings institut welcome back to the newshour. >> thank you so much. >> president trump said a year ago that he was going to do this and standing in front of the white house, he has spent much of his presidency defanging prident obama's rules that .urbed emissions from u.s sources. so how big of a deal is it that president trump made this next formal step yesterday and said we're really out? >> look, i think it's a big deal. maybe i just give you one backward-looking comment, which is it was crazy for the president to do-- for president trump to do this, right. this was the agreement that we negotiated, it was an excellent lyreement for everybody,

particulxcellent for the united states. we got just about everything we wanted in this agreement. it is-- its completely solid agreement supported by virtually alof american business. i don't think you'd find five c.e.o.s out of the fortune 500 who are against the paris military, not to mention thee intel community, and so forth. other thing is it protects the american people. if there's one obligation the president has, it's to take care of people, to protect people from harm. and i'll llou, whether this was in a blue state or a red state, climate change is an opportunity destroyer. and instead, we've walked away. so i think it's a deal to take the extra step that he's taken now. it will pull the united states all the way out of the agreement. it has to lay over for one year, but that will be the effect when it happens.

and it will damage the capacity of theorld overall to respond to climate change, which paris is a big part of. >> the sense that i have read from 19 people who study-- from many people whostudy t, with the u.s. out and its pledge to cut its emissions out, china and india-- the next two big emits, or that list-- they're realinly to have to step up their pledges. do you have any sense that that's actually gopeg to han? i mean, we know china is making exphiewfs agreement investments inreen technology, but do you have any sense that they are literally going to reduce their emissions in a meaningful way? >> honestly i think-- well, the reduce their emissions in a meaningful way. but i think the absence of the united states makes it that much harder. you might say,ell, they will see the suz out, we've got to do tuch more. it's not the way works in a political or diplomatic environment. p whsident xi jinping knew that he was dealing with president trump all the time and it was a tip-t priority for

president obama and the u.s. was going to raise this with the chinese all th time, that put what i might call sal teary pressure, the right kind of pressure on the chinese, and on the indians, also, wit president modi. so it bkes a difference when the u.s. is there fully engaged and putting the right kind of pressuren. and by correspondingly, when the u.s. is not there, you see diminished focus. and think we see diminished focus at the top levels of the chinese government now for sure. i go to china every year, once or twice, and it's not the same. es's not the same when they than the dent of the united states doesn't care about this. >> there's also, even china and india separate, even the othe so-called enlightened nations who say that they are still in the pariotaccord, they are even meeting their agreementsy,

necessarheir commitments to cut emissions. so given that, where do you get yis sense of optimism that i do hear ir voice, that we will rise to this challenge? >> well, look, i-- i-- rt am never exactly on the optimism or pessimism side of the scale. i try keep my eye on the-- sort of sober look at it. look, the u.s. and the world can do what we need to do. ,e have a huge task to get to essentially something like net-zero carbon by 2050. >> 3 years away. >> right. right now, the world gets 80% of its primary energiy from fossl fuels. the u.s. just slightly less than, that but aosthat. it's a huge task which has to get under way. i mean, it is under way to some extent now. but it has to move much more quickly. the thing about climate change nois dirtional sprg not enough. speed and scale serving.

reality.st the so can we do that from the point of view an innovation? yes. from the point of view of policy? yes. from the point of view of paying for it? yes, we can do all of those things. there's one agreement that's missing and that is the adequate political willround theorld. that is most important thing. if we got a new president committed to this issue in the job, that would make a big difference. but, i mean, it's a complicated problem. gl. >> todd stern, former u.s. climate negotiator, thank you very much. >> thanks so much. >> brangham: 462t eople walked of prison in oklahoma yesterday. it set off joyous scen of people reuniting with their families. came just days after republican governor kevin stitt signed off on the recommendation of the state's pardon and parole board to commute their sentences.

it was the largest single-day y.commutation in u.s. hist oklaho, which has ranked as the state with t highest incarceration rate in the country, is now looking at other criminal justice reforms. governor kevin stitt joins m now. hevernor, welcome to newshour.thank you very much fog here. can you just take us back yesterday? those looked like some really joyous celebrations gog at that prison. what was that scene like foru? >> you know,, it was-- it was really fantastic. my wife and i were there, and just to welcome all these people specific women's prison, them leaving their past behind, and getting a second chance on le, the joy, the tears, e family, the hugs, reuniting with their families. ng feeling. an amazi >> you said to them, to that gathered group of women who had just been released, "is up to you now to make sure you don't b end uk in jail." and that is certainly true. i wonder what you think what's the role, if any, for the state

elp thatd agencies to not be a revolving door? >> well, you know, we actually brought re-entry fairs to the prison before they got out to make sure when what i they diod geut they knew are wherethey would be staying. we had housing and ecation opportunities and a lot of folks had jobs when they got out. s also, simpff that had never been done before. >> and brought the department of blic safety to the prison so they could have driver's licenses and state i.d.s when they got out. things we take for grants are such an impediment to get a jobc orally get into school, or all the different things that are going to bess succel. that was my challenge to them. "this is your opportunity. there are plenty of churches and nonprofits that want to stand beside you to help you have a great, prosperous future." >> some oklahomaans might look at what happened yterday and say those people inspector prison for a ren.

help me understand how you as conservative republican in oklahoma came to this idea and thought thathis was a good idea. >> well, these were all low-level drug offenses, and, w you knowre number one in the country in incarceraon we have been for decades. icd when i became governor, i said this is rous. we don't have any different issues in our state than they have in any other state. so we're number one in something we should be number 50tht. started going through what is it going to take to actually start moving the needle? and i'm so excited we're no longer number one in that, and we're going to continue to move the need expel give people second chanchi. we alwaysk about public safety. but these are information we were just mad at. we weren't really raid of them. and i think those folks hased ed their time and it was time to give them a second chance. and oklahomaans agree with me on this. it's not a republican or democrat issue. this makes sense for our state for sure and i think for our

country. >> i know you have argued in the past there is an economic argument to this, toting people go with these low-level offenses. make that economic argumento me. >> well, you know, with these 450 folks that we let out yesterday, we're saving the state $12. milli i would rather use those funds for education purposes. a lot of timehere is some mental illness, there are some drug addiction. so we appropriated the last session $10 million to some type of, you know, programs to help people get back on their feet but at the end of the day, it's about jobs. it's about reuniting with their families. there's such an other drain on society. when you have heavy incarceration, you have children in foster care. so ireally is more than just the $12 million to incar them.e there are so many other drags on the state and on other resources it differently.ted to aroach >> what do you say to some of the critics of this whole

movement who say, look, locking things is impot and thatad that serves as a deterrent to crime, and this whole movement is a mistake? >> well, listen, we're going-- we're going to deter crime. we're gointo make sure that people are punished, and we're going to be a rule of law. my state, we wilobey the law. we're going to respect our polit officers. ere's a different between 15 years for simple possession, and that was a lot of the casese that we eeing when we looked through the docket-- versus second chances. so we want to treat those drug addiction, and we want to get them second chances. soe were very diligent when we looked through this case law, and we made sure that w didn't let any dangerous person out. these were all low-level drug offenders. >> is this an argument-- i know you have been part of the national govcirnor's asion and a lot of those meet business this issue-- is this an argument thatou make to your fellow governors? and if so, what's the reception you get when you say these things? >> i mean,t i don know

specifically whar what other sts think, but i think this is something across party les-- republicans, democrats-- we all think that certain people need oecond chances. we cant continue to have for these niolent druge offenses. and so that's what we're doing classifying what is a violent and a nonviolent offense, and then we can have sentencing reform off of that, and make sure thatre fair with everyone. i mean, e the ladythey say met that came out of prison, her name is tes, and her m ted when she was 13. she got addicted to drugs. e got a 15-year sentence for a simple possession. she's been in for eight years. e got her g.e.d. while she was in prison. now she w ill be able go to college. we reunite her with her family. those are the stories we need to help pple get back onheir feet when they're not violent, we're not afraid of them, and et's a drug addiction in a lot of c. >> all right, governor kevin

stitt of oklahoma. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> whitaker: the college admissions scandal, "varsity blues", has cast an ugly spotlight on the wor college admissions-- and how the system can be gamed. a key piece of that scandal is the way parents hired impostors to take admissions tests, fake scores and allow students more time to take their college entrance exams. once again, it's led to a number of questions about the controversial standardized tests that have long been required for college. it's rocking the world of higher education and the focus of john seng's conversation tonight for oues on rethinking college. it's part of our regular education coverage, "making the grade". >> yang: william, for years, there has been debate how well standardized tests like the s.a.t.s and a.c.t.s predict

academic performance. and there have been concerns about how race and economic background influence test scores. now a reco number of schools no longer require test scores ver admission, and the nine- campus uity of california join them.studying whether to boff selingo has written several s on higher education including "there is life after college." he is currently writing a book on college admissions-- "who gets in and why"-- that due out next year. >> thanks for joining us. >> it's great to be here. why is this debate or issue about whether or not to use s.a.t.s and a.c.t.s coming up? we have the varsity blues investigation. is there a rethinking now of the whole college admisiss process? >> i think a lot of it is test scores are highlight of highly linked to family income. if you come from a family make over $200,000. if you come from a family making under $120,000, a 1 in 50

chance. high crelation between famiy income and s.a.t. scores. as colleges and universities are trying to diversify both econically, racially, and ethnically, i think they're trying to look for other ways of assessing students beyond just a stngle score on a four-hour >> now, there have been attempts to try to change or tweak the test to try to take into account those sort of socioeconomic background issues. i mean, most recently, the adversity score. talk about that. to so the college board tried come up with what they called an environmental context dashboardt as actually separate from the s.a.t. score, but what it would do is give admisons officers who were reviewing applications a sense of the type of background that the student was ming from. looked at the neighborhood they grew up in. it looked at the high school that they went to. and as a result of a lot of push-back against this by high schools and parents, the college bored decided to do awa with this a couple of months ago. they're looking for ways to measure the context that

students are learning in whether that's from their home environment or the high school. >> in the iroduction i mentioned the university of california is looking at this now. they're going to announce their decision, they say, in february or march. how important is thatio decis going to be? >> huge. iviversity of chicago, highly selective e university, obviously, in chicago, went test optional about a year or so ago. and there was a thinking that a t of otr highly selective name-brand colleges would folloh . very few-- actually, none did. most of the test-optial colleges are lower feared. if the university of california ews and it will be big i think a lot of other colleges will follow. there are a lot of students in calirnia who go to college everywhere around the country. a lot take the s.a.t. and a.c.t. because the university of california requires it. if they no longer tiquire have a feeling other colleges will follow along. >> i think a lot of peole don't realize that there's a lot of money at stake in this question. >> huge. profitllege board, a n entity over $1 billion in

revenue from testing, that includes a.p. testing, college, s.a.t., and other types of testing. so there's a lot e stake in this. colleges and universities also have a lot at stake as well. the number one edictor of success in college are grades in high school and a rigor of the high school curriculum. but a lot of colleges don't high schooltru grates graidz. they think there's some grade inflation happeninpuat private anic high schools. so they like to use the saltor a.c.t. as kind of the balance wheel against grading. it's something that is national thing that they trust >> and it's not just matriculating and becoming a freshman-- for incoming freshman. there are a lot of schoolste gradchools will no longer require standardized tests. >> we're seeing a lotof graduate schools move back from standardized testing for grad again, it's also a way to try to boost interest, particularly at se graduate level, because a lot ofdents going back to graduate school might be five, 10 years out of college and the

last thing they want to do is take standardized test it's also a way to boost application numbers as well. we even see tha the undergraduate level. we do see application numbers grise at schools that test optional after they do it. >> how did the s.a.t.s and a.c.t.s become sort of, you know, landmarks or sort of pie of furniture in the college admissions process? >> it was really never designed that way. en the sat s.a.t. was first put into place it was a way to expand access to colleges and university because at th time, most of the elite colleges essentially took students from elite boarding schools and elite private schools and want s.a.t. was a way, oh, we could trustta ng a kid from a high school in north dakota. but it was never the hightas test it eventually became. and it became a high-stakes tesr l-- later on, because more students were going to college. and, again, we wanted to-- h wow assess a high school in the middle of iowa and a high school in north carolina. the other thing that happened is rte "u.s. ask news & world rerankings used it as one

of their measures of success. and once they did that, once they did that, colleges and universities facility like, well, we have to do everything we can de to ra our s.a.t. scores because if we raise our s.a.t. scores, we going to go up in theng rank >> jeff selingo, his book is thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >>sraham: the f.b.i. repo hate crimes are on the rise in this country. a number of analyses have found white nationalism and white supremacy accompany those statistics. there was a grim reminder of d at again in colorado when an alleite supremacist was p rested after he plotted to blowsynagogue in pueblo, a special correspondent charlayne hunter-gault has been looking at that issue through the eyes of a man with a unique perspective. it's part of our ongoing series "race matters solutions".

>> reporter: meet derek black, a scholar working here at the library of congress on his phd thesis. what is the research, mostly? >> looking at older maps and a lot of the books that were printed in the early colonial period in america. >> reporter: he's studyingow race was used to defd divide. oh you mean this is at the very beginning? >> yeah, yeah. the very beginning is the 1500s and 1600s. >> reporter: derek black's journey to this moment was maybe more unusual than most in his field . he traced its beginnings back to his youth, when he was brought up in a household led by his father, a dedicated white supremacist, who at one time had been a grand wizard of the ku klux klan, and who still maintains a website dedicated to his white supremacists views. black was an eager student of his father's tching from an early age. and, as he grew, he became one of the most vocal and prominent young members of the movement. his story was initially captured

in a book "rising out of hatre"" by eli saslow. joining us., thank you for >> thanks for having me, charlayne. >> reporter: you grew up in a mily of white nationalists. do you remember some of the things your fathou taught you that whole life and those concepts? >> yeah. he always talked about it like it was a calling. like there was nobody in america at this point who was willing to point out what he thought was just true. that it was completeng, integration was completely wrong. that race was true and biological and everybody wanted to ... really secretly wanted to live separately and... t reporter: secretly want live separately? >> yeah, yeah. secretly and publicly. like he believed that every white person was really kind of in agreement with what he wa saying. and that gave him a lot of strength.

>> went to a liberal arts college called new college. i went with a conviction thawrks couldn't change my mind, that there was nothing wrong with my beliefs, that they were factual, all this stuff-- racism, anti-semitism, this whole world view that explains everything rsrough that len. the thing was realizing that this campus would not be like everywhere else i'd been. that they would not tolerate it. they wouldn't say, 'oh, you're a ouite nationalist, but let's just not talk that.' which is what every other environment i've been in, growing upn south florida before that, was. >> reporter: so when did it start to change and why? how? >> it was after mpgot outed on . >> reporter: you got outed. and how did you get outed? >> somebody googled my name. i was public, but students in >> reporter: who was condemning? >> it seemed like the entire campus. person student bod's an 800- >> reporter: how was it

manifest? >> there was a student forum. an email forum where elkrybody could bout what they were feeling and what was happening. and so i could sit there a just read post after post on this thousand-page messa, talking about how i was not welcome here, how i didn't represent them, how they couldn't understand how i could be a part of this place that they were trying to build. >> reporter: how did that make you feel? >> it was a lot more unsettling i think than i thought it would be. and so seeg people who i respected saying that what i was... i was espousing was hurting them, was hurting their lives... like that was a different kind of feeling from y other condemnation i'd ever had. followed, a jewish friends that invited black to weekly shabbat dinners, and black accepted, ready for confrontation. it never came.

>> reporter: he never accused you of being an anti-semite? it he didn't. i thinas... it was definitely intention to talk to... talked to him about it a irt since then. that dinner and the ones afterwards, he thought it was going to be counterproductive to try to have a big debate. he asked other people who re at the dinner to just don't bring it up because he's at a shabbat dinner and his ideology is anti-semitism. reporter: they knew? >> that alone, yeah. he thought that that alone will be kinof a challenge to me. there was one person i met at e dinners we have lengthy, asod-faith conversations who started oung, "where was the misunderstanding?" that was my first question. and slowly realizing, it's not a misunderstanding. this is an assault on-- on their personhood. >> there's a lot of speculation the days about why there seems to be a growing population of

white nationalists, white supremacis and the argument is that they are fearful of becomina minority in a country where black and brown people are becoming the majority, say over the next 30, 40 years. is there anything to that as far as you can see? is it fear? >> yeah. i think that fear is the leading driver of people joining the hiite nationalist movement. it'sidea that they're threatened. that they are losing something. that they're being attacked. it's all this stuff that's, for the record, not real. and it's what keeps thnd up in that world, where they can't look out and see that the threat is not real, that they are not in danger. that the world is fine derrick and his father bave rencil also stuck to their own positions. how do you begin to reach people

that have those views t get them, in a way, on the path that you tookif that's possible? >> right. i think it's never going to be as easy as tryg argue somebody into a new world view. k oking back on my experience, i that happened was it took place through discussion and debate. that's what i felt was really convincing me was what are my ideas and why are they wrong? looking back on it, it was the fact that i was ina different community. so you can't force that to happen. but it's also not quite a hard as we might think. >> when you look at this toxic atmosphere in our country today, in particular in our country, but it seems to be all over thei worlso many other places, too-- are u at all hopeful rhat we can ever be united we

stand e again, if we ever did stand united? ean, i find it difficult to move forward and be engaged wipeout having some sort of because i think that you can see hope in every individual person who comes to a new understanding or thinks about things or changes. and so that's always my advice to other people who are at a loss for 'wh should we do?' is just start with one person and that's the mosrtantion with. and powerful thing you can possibly do. >> reporter: well derek black, thank you for joining us and i wish you all the best with you studies and with everything that you're engaged in. >> thanks so much for having me. >> brangham: actor edward norton has starred in movies such as "everyone says i love you," "primal fear," "the grand

budapest hotel" and "birdman." but as jeffrey brown discovered at the toronto film festival, irs newest film, in which he both stars aects, is his this report is part of our ongoing coverage of arts and culture, canvas. >> brown: in the film," motherless brooklyn", edward norton plays lionel essrog, a small-time detective thrown into some very big doings. novel by jonathan .on the 1999 >> i got hold of it and was immediately grabbed by this character. the core of jonathan's book is much lesthe plot than it is this emotional intimacy he creates between you and this character and his incredible mind. >> brown: lionel is familiar in some ways, extraordinary in another: he has a form of tourette's syndrome-- kind of verbal ¡tic' which causes him to fixate on words anyell them

out, often at most inappropriate moments. >> despite this being a very debilitating thing in functioning in the world, inside his mind it's this constant kind of beautiful game of almost jazz >> brown: and what was that like taking it on as an actor? >> that's a nourishing meal as an actor to take on. empathy that you feel, the nuance, the beauty and the pain, you know, all of it -- and so it becomes a rich challenge. >> brown: norton is best known for acclaimed performances in sualler, tightly-wound films as "american history x" and alongside brad pitin the cult- hit "fight club"... as well as the commercial blockbuster, "the incredibleheulk." bu's recently chosen to be very selective in his projects. >> working less as an actor becomes a better and better thing because at a certain point

i get tired of seeing the same people too many times, myself. and i think about how people i rerly respect and admire th work, who i think have of?brown: who are you thinking >>l day lewis or sean penn. we wish we saw you in more'.h and i always say, like, why? you know, why? because pa of the reason you like what you like is when it's think.u for longer, i >> brown: in the new film he's done it all: written the screenplay, starred and directed a cast of top actors. and he's opened up lethem's book to set the action against big social change in new york in the 1950s, as a character based on real-life new york city parks commissioner robert moses, ed here by alec baldwin, plots and connives to carve up and shape the city. moses, known as the ¡master builder', never held elected office, but wided an autocratic clout. things.s fascinated by those

i feel even still that many h ople really don't have a clear view of the tr how modern mew york that we live in now o be in what is in many of its dysfunctions. >> brown: gentrification and the loss of neighborhoods. >> when we tell our stories about how america works to ourselve we don't say, you know, these things get decided by, like, aucratic imperial forces who were racist a a never works rica, power is with held public office. we say, that's not how power works in americapower is with the people, you know, we make those decisions. and that's not true in modern >> brown: film, norton thinks, especially the ¡film noir' stylf ¡motherless brooklyn', offers a challenge. >> good noir, good noir cinema is kind of a tradition of saying,¡hey, under our sunny narrative there's stuff going on.

in you peel back the corner there's stuff on in the shadows that ain't quite everything we're saying it is and i like that. >> brown: this is clearly a passion project, one that took norton years tpull off. >> it's hard to get these kinds of movies made at the scale i made this. >> brown: hard in hollywood? because? >> these kind of movies aren't getting made so much anymore but you know that just means you have to sort of persevere and figure it out eventually. "ke, when i was coming of age, a movie l"red" had a huge impact on me-- warren beatty. he wrote, produced, directed and starred in a three hour and 15 mite film about american socialists with documentary interviews with the real people and i remember warlling me that people told him, this is gonna end your career-- you're goa flush erything you've

>> brown: the film "motherless brooklyn" is playing in cinemas around the country. for the pbs newshour, i'm jeffrey brown at the tonto international film festival. >> brangham: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm william brangham. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of social c worldwide. >> carnegie corporation of new

york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and ofe advancement nternational peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support ofhese institutions and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

hello, everyone and welcome to amanpour. re's what's coming up. deadly prests rk baghdad ea with one yr until america's eltion, we dive into a foreign licy issue that's plagued u.s. presidents for decades. then -- >> i was smacked and i said oh, i would love to but i'm so sorry, i'm pregnant. >> from mary poppins -- ♪ to maria von trapp and much more, judy andrews reflects on her dazzlingliareer. >> turns out there's enough acrs