>> narrator: tonight, on this special edition of frontline... first- >> they put me in a cage. i was with around twelve oth younger minors. of migrant children.s detent >> our children are being sheltered and cared for as we seek to find thea very safe home. >> narrator: frontline and the when you detain children, you create risks for them for lifelong physical and emotional problems. >> narrator:he cost to "kids caught in the crackdown". and later--et a secrex trade in iraq... >> what's the difference between muta'ah marriage and prostitution?r:

>> narraorking with an undercover reporter investigates clerics exploiting women and girls. >> we're here to investigate allegations that some clerics here are grooming women d even acting like pimps. >> narrator: these two stori tonight on frontline. >> frontline is made possible by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. and by the corporation for public broadcasting. major support is provided by the john d. and therine t. marthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verda and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. the ford fouation: workg with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. at fordfoundation.org.pr additional support iided by the abrams foundation, committed to excellence in journalism. dedicated to heightening public

the john and helen gleissues. family trust. supporting trustworthy journalism that informs an inspires. and by the frtline journalism fund, with major support from jon and jo ann hagler. and additional support froman kopatricia yuen, through the yuen foundation. ♪ >> durg the summer, my uncle asked me if i wanted to go, like, learn the job that he was doing. my mom wanted me to go so that can see how hard it is to work out in the sun. started a house from ttomjust to the top.ik i always lworking with my hands or just, like, learning new things. ♪

th that day that we were heading back, i was on my phone. and, hector, he starts saying that, "nah, there's... the cops are coming." (chatter on police radio) so, my uncle pulls over, and all he tells us is, "just relax, nothing's wrong." (chatter on police rad)st the cop cameted asking for our papers, if we had any idenfication, everything. >> police officer: >> yeah. >> he ok me, out he made me talk to border patrol. >> border patrol and martin: mart: al we werhandcuffed. and i started asking the cops,

like, "what's happening, whatar they going to do to us?" and he just told us that we weren't supposed to be here, and because we were illegal, bordert patrol was goicome get us. (chatter on police radio) as soon as i was in the back of the car, i-i just felt like everything was over. ♪ >> daffodil altan: that night in june 2019 was the ginning of a long journey for martin. l it woud him hundreds of miles from home. >> have you ever been to a stadium? it was like a stadium but with cages inside, and that's where d when we walked in there, we just saw people, it's like, crying, we saw little kids crying. they put me in the cage. i was with around 12 other younger minors.

i didn't really know what to think, i was like, "is this prison, or, like, what is this?" i kind of broke down. i didn't know what to do. >> altan: he had ended up inl massive u.s. border pat holding pen in mcallen, texas. p >> a bleture of conditions for migrant children. >> we are seeing sick children, we are seeing dirty children, we are seeing hungry children... >> ...say there is not enough food, water, or sanitation.lt >>: martin had spent most of his life in the u.s. but it didn't matter. t lis of thousands of kids who had recently crossed the separated from their parents, he was handed over to a federal agency, the dertment of health and human services. >> martha mendoza: when a child arrives at the u.s. border, they are taken into custody u.s. customs and border protection, whose mission is to protect the security of the united states. they're not t up to take care of anybody. they then turn that child over to the u.s. department of healta and services, which is an

agency whose mission is to takea of people. ♪ >> altan: i've been reporting on the lives of undocumented people in america for the past decade. >> these kids are getting sent all around the country... press, we've been investigating hhs's detention system for migrant children. >> garance burke: we're going to end up with st of like a generation of migrant kids who are going to have this kind of lasting trauma. >> altan: my partners at the a.p., investigative reportersha garance burke and ma mendoza, have been on this story for years. they obtained confidential hhs data showing where migrant children are being held and how many of them are in detention ai any give. >> burke: what we found in our reporting is that never before had there been this many children held inside the government's network ofel rs for migrant kids. the majority of those kids wereh in facilities wi more than 100

or 1,000 other children, so mass faslities where, psychiatri say, kids start to feel like just another number. >> altan: hhs's own numbers now show that over the past year, nearly 70,000 migrant children have been held without their parents-- more than any other time on record-- and more than any other country in the world. ♪ one of hhs's largest facilities is an emergency influx shelter in homestead, florida. june 201here martin ended up in at the time, nearly one out offi ever migrant kids in hhs custody was being held there. >> when we arrived there, you could justee there was a couple of guards, armed guards, by the entrance. once we went inside, we saw kids playing outside, there was kidsc playing so. in my headwhat i was thinking was, like, "th was a way better place than where i was, in immigration."

but this place is not really home, so i didn't really feel sa at the same time. >> altan: there were more than 2,000 teenagers being held at homestead. >> with very high numbers of children coming across the border at times, hhs has to be aby, to meet its responsibil both legally and morally, to have a pce for these children to go. and i would say that, you know, even one of our influx shelters is better than a cbp processing center.ay >> altan: jonathan hes is the refugee resettlement, isf legally required to care for migrant children within hhs. t he sat down wi a.p.'s garance burke. >> burke: so, why would yourol agencyso many children together, both in influx shelters a just very large shelters? >> there were some periods whero we werreceiving 4000 kids every day. you know, you-you may look at a, at a shelter with 500 kids, and realize, "i could fill up one of those in one day, potentially."

>> altan: hhs would not allow us to bring cameras inside homestead, despite repeated requests. but over the past year, we've whspoken to numerous kids ve been detained-- including this s girl, who sant a month and a half inside homestead waiting to be reunited wither father. she asked us to disguise her voice out of concerns formi her ation status. >> girl (speaking spanish): >> altan: she says most of the with only one hour of outdoor time.

>> altan: the mass detention of children at homestead and other hhs sis stems in part from a little-known decision by the in 2018 hhs started doing the children's sponsors, mostly relatives trying to claim them from detention. >> mendoza: they began vetting sponsors and families to the extreme. anybody in a house whe these kids were going to go to would have to be fingerprinted, background checked, d fully screened, which took a long time. >> altan: while the extreme vettinwas in effect, the time kids were spending in hhs shelters went from a few weeks to months. >> some of the additional chans that did come to be, i think did have an impactn kind of slowing down the, you know, the process in that. but, you know, it's always abe balanceen, you know, the

safety othe children, but also being able to discharge them as quickly but as safely as possible. ♪ >> altan: in florida this past summer, we met woman who had been trying to get her nephew out of homestead. >> xiomara (speaking spanish): >> altan: xiomara says her 16-year-old nephew jarin left honduras because gangs were trying to recruit hi >> altan: though she herself isd undocumexiomara says she gave hhs everything they asked b for, but jarin hn in detention for almost fou months.

♪ >> altan: >> xiomara >> altan: along with the extreme vetting, we found there was another factor pushing up the number of kids in detention: hhs was sharing information with ice about sponsors coming to claim their children.

>> what it was meant to do was to cast a larger net after those that could be particularly targeted for apphensions. >> altan: andrew lorenzen strait was a deputy assistant director of ice at the time. in may 2018 he helped write the agreement between the two agencies. >> i thought we were going to bo ing at how we care for kids that mayave these issues of being taken advantage of; altan: instead, ice used the information to apprehend sponsors. in the months following the ysagreement, the ancy sa around 330 people were arrested. >> there is a total chilling effect of coming forward, arcause they believe they going to be picked up by ice. the outcomes of at partnership were devastating to the migrant community. >> burke: in some of the government paperwork i've seen, there are fewer sponsors coming forward now, and that that's

led to more children being in custody. h >>e absolutely heard some anecdotal conversations and commentsyou know, that there, you know, there was some examples of sponsors that were concerned. y however, i-i reaject, you know, the-the very premise that there's thisery widespread pattern. >> altan: ice says it's not arresting people in this way anymore. but the fear remains. at her he in texas, martin's mother was worried about being arrested as she searched for her son. >> woman:

>> altan: martin was born in mexico and brought to the u.s. when he was nine months old. >> woman: >> altan: but even undocumented kids like him, who've been here most of their lives, have been detained.

>> woman: as >> altanore children were being held, and for longer times, we began hearing from human rights advocates and mental health experts who'd en inside homestead. >> never have i ever been to a facility that has 2,000-plus children in one place. tuit's a, it's a deeply unl state. we've been monitoringci ties all over the... >> altan: neha desai is part of a group of attorneys whoio monitor the cond for migrant children inside detention facilities. >> that are deteriorating... >> what we know from decades and decas of research ishe way we should treat these kids is in the most homelike setting, in the least restrictive setting possible. children at homestead are

monitored 24-seven by security guards. children tell me that they can't walk five feet to go to the bathroom by themselves. these children are not free to leave. altan: psychologist yenys castillo was brought into homestead to assess the impact isonere're detained; we cannot leave." it was a very regimented place. children were walking, and there was this one child, and he was crying.th so, i askechildren, "how come i saw a child crying, and nobody was addressing that child?" and they said that they were not allowed to talk to one another most of the time, and then they're not allod to touch one another, and they're not allowed to offer cfort. so, we tend to see teenars as mini-adults. they're not adults. emotns.nnot regulate their o they don't think of the future as we do. they think, "this is going to

last forever." the longer they stay in these detention conditions, the more they deteriorate psychologically. >> girl: >>ltan: >> girl: >> altan and girl: >> girl: >> the security around any of our shelters is more to keep people out than to keep people in. especially with some of the older children, you know, these aren't secure facilities thatou

are impossible to geof. the overwhelming majority, the near-unimous number of children in our care, are grateful. >> altan: there are now approximately 170 hhs shelter programs for migrant kids across the country, from small foster-care sites to places like homestead.hh houses the youngest migrants, infants d toddlers,ci in a handful of lities they call "tender-age" shelrs. we were recently given rare access to this slter holding babies and teenage mothers in san benito, texas. >> this is our busy hallway. there's constantly children playing, nursing, eating. >> altan: melissa aguilar is the director of shelter programs for comprehensive health services, a private company that runs the shelter. >> we fos on zero to 17. h so, e mothers in care. we have the capacity to service pregnant teenagers, and they can also care for their babies here. a staff said it earlier today, i and she sabest, that

"the children are borrowed." they're borrowed for-for our purpose, right? so, a lot of times, when something is borrowed,ou take care of them better than you own.d something that is your >> altanthe company runs five other shelters, including homestead. and among itleadership is former white house chief of staff john kelly, who'd backed the policy o separating kids from their families at the border. over the past year, the government has paid chs nearly $300 million. by its very definition, when you're for-profit, your job as a company is to make a profit. so, some people might say, then, isn't there then an incentive to detain kids? >> there is a profit, there is a price incentive, but it's not a detention incentive. the-the question about is there incentive to detain children-- absolutely not. and i think that it's so important for everybody to understand that we're not detaining children. we're not separating children. we're caring for children. >> burke: morally, ethically, is it okay for a for-profit company

to makmoney from holding children in mass facilities that they cannot leave? >> they're not the ones determining what kids are coming there, they dot really have as much say over who stays there. we can move kids in an out if we so desire. am i personally opposed to, you know, a for-profit company? i've thought about that question, and honestly, i'm not. and at the end of the day, whenn you get t the shelter level, you know, you're basically talking about just a bunch of socl workers, child-welfare experts, who just want to help care for the kids. >> we know from the american academy of pediatrics that there's no amount of timthat it's safe for children to be detained. we know definively that detention harms children. that every single day that children are there, thosemp impacts nd. >> altan: recently, hhs's internal investigator looked into the issue. >> mendoza: they took a look at thshelter system and concluded in their own report that the

mental-health needs of these kids was not being met. some kids were getting stressed out to the extreme, inflicting self-harm, becoming extremely withdrawn and depressed. >> altan: beyond the mental-health impacts, there have also been documented cases of physical and sexual abuse at some hhs shelters-- and the a.p. reported that children and families are now suing the u.s. for hundreds of millions of dollars. ♪ as for martin, after almost three weeks in detention, he found out he would finally be going home. >> on a saturday night, i was going to sleep, and they woke me up, like, around 10:00, 10:30. and they're like, "you're getting to leave." >> woman:

>>hen i saw them, i just, like, ran to her and got to hug her. fore i didn't really, like, miss my mom, 'cause i got to see her every day. i didn't feel like there would be that empty space where you actually need that hug from your mom. the first two weeks, i-i didn't really get to sleep. i was still, like, confused about what was happening. i wasn really stable. i'm still scared that something bad could happen. like, i don't feel safe anymore.

♪ >> xiomara: >> altan: after nearly xiomara was finally recognized as jarin's aunt by hhs. >> jarin: >> xiomara: >> xiomara:

>> woman (on phone): ♪ ra >> xio (people speaking spanish in background) >> jarin: (applause) >> your conscious mind may not remember, but your body remembers. your brain remembers.

and maybe that child, at that moment, says, "i'm okay." but later on he might be in ay, situation that is scnd then he might freeze. and he doesn't know why. ♪ tw altan: we visited marti he and his family askeeee. the footage of the moment when he was first detained. >> (on recording): listen, i'm at a check-and-stop here in texas. i got six subjects, one of them's got a new york state... >> altan: were you surprised when they got the rder patrol on the phone? >> yes. i just didn't know, like, what toay or how to react. (police chatter on recording) >> altan: >>o, it's okay. >> altan: okay. >> it's ju... constant thing i wish, like, it never happened. >> altan: mm-hmm ♪ (police chatter on radio)

♪ >> narrator: coming up next on this special edition of frontline... it's called pleasure or temporary marriage-- >> in the community they ti look at it as prtion. >> narrator: and some iraqi clerics are using ito exploit women and girls. >> we see women over and over again who were victims of the these abusers. >> narrator: correspondent nawal al-magfi exposes "ira's secret sex trad".

♪ >> nawal al-maghafi: i'm in kadhimiya, central baghdad-- one of shia islam's most important pilgrimage sites. millions visit this holy shrine, and many coues come here to get married. just walking around the shopping arcade across from the main shrine, i'veome across multiple marriage offices. we've come here because of increasing concerns among iraqi shias that some clerics are abusing an ancient marriage practice to exploit women and girls. it's called "muta'ah" orun "mta"-- pleasure or temporary marriage-- and it

allows a m to pay for a short-term wife. i have to be discreet filming this, but we're here to inveigate allegations that so like pimps. ♪ there are no reliable statistics about how often this custom is actually used today. it's illegal under iraqi law. but some clerics say there are occasions when it's appropriate. f this is cleraris al-mousawi. r hes a marriage office in sadr city, another shia area of baghdad. what are the rules behind muta'ah marriage? >> al-mousawi:

oe>> maghafi: he says he dsn't conduct muta'ah marriagesel hi because they're illegal. but he tells me that sometimesth 're permitted under religious sharia law, and they enable a man to help a woman in need. >> maghafi: but what's the difference between muta'ah marria and prostitution? ♪ >> maghafi: 15 years of war have

had a devastating effe on iraq's women and girls. ♪ ee it's bn estimated that there are more than a milln widows in iraq, and me than 800,000 children who've lost parents. ♪ this 16-year-old girl asked to be called rusul. for her safety, an actor is voicing her words. >> rusul (dramatized): >> maghafi: she sa her father died when she was 12, and her family was left destitute. by the time she was 13, she was .ready married and divorc then a man oered her a pleasure marriage. at >> rusul (dred):

>> maghafi: rusul says a cleric from kadhimi did the ceremony, and that she didn't understand what she was getting into. after two months, the man left her. >> rusul (dramatized): (sighs) ♪

>> maghafi: over more than a spoke to around 25 wom team girls who said pleasure marriages had been ud to exploit them. all feared reprisals if they showed their faces.aq iri lawyers, journalists, and humarights workers told us that abuse of the practice was a significant and growing problem, but warned us it would be difcult to expose. (rustling) toind out how widespread i is, we had one of our colleagues go undercover in kadhimiya.n (car horhonks) if discovered, he risked being detained by one of iraq's fearel shitias. we're concealing his identity. >> when i rived, i was really scared. first checkpoint was really reary, because i had a sec camera.

they found this, no way i can run away. >> maghafi: while many clerics go through years of religious educatio it's possible in iraq to become a cleric and open a marriage office with very little formal training. posing as a potentiaclient, our reporter met with ten clerics here, telling them he a wa pleasure marriage with a 13-year-old. eight of those clerics agreed to conduct such a marage if he had the parents' consent. one of them was sayyid raad. >> salaam alaikum. (raad speaking arabic) >> mhafi: our reporter met him outside the main shrine and went whim to his nearby office. he saw his license to conduct marriages issued by the iraqi ministry of justice. raad said he had two offices inm iya and employed four otr clerics. his title, "sayyid," means he claims descent from the prophet muhammad.

>> raad and repoer: >> maghafi: he agreed to do a pleasure marriage if our reporter brought a girl to him. ♪ >> reporte >> magfi: our undercover reporter met him again in an upscale mall he told him he'd now found a 13-year-old girl and had her family's pmission. >> raad: >> reporter: >> raa >> maghafi: sayyid raad was willing to proceed without even speaking to the girl's family. >> reporter:

>> raad: >> reporter and raad: >> maghafi: sayyid raad sa a man cod do as many pleasure marriages as he wanted. >> raad:li (muezzin c adhan) >> mhafi: our team spoke to two dozen men who said they did brief temporary marriages to get sex. they told us t practice is widespread. one of them agreed to give an interview if we didn't show his face. >> man:

♪ >> maghafi: the man said he riregularly does muta'ah mes with women in their 20s, but anhe's heard that some men younger girls. an >> ♪ >> maghafi: our reporter had told sayyid raad that the girl he wanted a muta'ah marriage with was 13 years old and a virgin. >> reporter:d >> rd reporter: >> raad:

>> maghafi: what raad said next was alarming. >> raad: >> reporter: >> raad: >> reporter: >> raad: >> reporter: >> raad: ♪ w >> maghafi: t to the iraqi ministry of shia affairs to ask about what we found. they said they had no oversight over marriage offices in kadhimiya and declined to give an intervi. the ministry of justice, which issues licens to conduct marriages, also refused to tal us. we approached more than 20 senior shia clerics. some condemned the abuse we found, but none would go on camera to discuss it.

one former high-ranking clerico agreedlk to us-- ghaith tamimi. >> tamimi: >> maghafi: he's become an outspoken cric of the religious leadership in iraq. after receiving death threats, he's now living in exile in london. he says that most shia muslims would be horrified at muta'ah b marriageng used to enable men to marryhildren. >> tamimi: ♪

>> maghafi: we'd been told that abusive muta'ah marriages were happening near the holiest site in shia islam. this is karba, it's the biggest shia pilgrimage site in the world.f tens of millions olgrims comeere every ar. ♪ i spoke to sheikh emad alassady, the head of the shrine's marriage office. so we've heard about pleasure marriages, muta'ah marriages. do you do them here? >> alassady: >> maghafi: but he said they dot still happen in se and are allowable under sharia law. don't you think these pleasure marriages exploit vulnerle girls?

♪ >> maghafi: in the streets around the shrine, our reporter asked four clerics if they woul conduct pleasure marriage. two said they would. one of them was sheikh salawi. >> reporter and salawi: >> maghafi: sheikh salawi said he had completed extensive religious studies, and also said that he was a member of one of iraq's powerful and well-armed shia militias. our reporter told him he'd met a young girl whoas still a virgin. >> reporter:

>> salawi: or >> repter and salawi: >> reporter: >> salawi: >> maghafi: we showed this footage to yanar mohamd.

she runs a network of shelters across iraq that help victims oe al abuse and muta'ah marriage. >> nine years old? they are just opening a shop for pedophiles, inviting them from all over e world. kethe cleric is trying to t sound as legal and religiously accepted, but in theommunity, they look at it as prostitution. it's not acceptable.we in our slteree women over and over again who were the ctims of these abusers. >> maghafi: we showed her footage of sayyid raad. our reporter had asked him what would happen if he took a girl's virginity during a pleasure marria. >> reporter: >> raad: >> reporter:

>> raad and reporter: >> raad: >> they are speaking of how a man can get away with his crimen of raping a girl. ♪ >> maghafi: i met a young woman who asketo be called mona. she says she lost her virginity in a pleasure marriage. for her safety, an actor is speaking her words. mona (dramatized): >>aghafi: she says the man took her to a cleric in kadhimiya for a pleasure

marriage. she was only 14. her parentknew nothing about it. >> mona (dramatized): >> maghafi: so the sheikh knew e you virgin. m hafi: mona had been groomed by a sexual predator with the help of a cleric. but now she's most afraid of her own family. >> mona (dramatized): ♪ ♪

>> maghafi: sayyid raad had t ago conduct a pleasure marriage wita 13-year-old.wo but uld he actually go through with it? the cleric now offed to do the ceremony in a taxi-- over the he didn't ask to meet the girl in person or talk her family., >> basicallyanother colleaguehe of mine, was in the hotel. , and when he ringhe phomy female colleague, she was on another end of the phone, and she was ready to answer. >> raad: >> i'm not thinkg the only question he ask of and he start make the ceremonywi thout any question. >> raad: >> reporter 2 (on phone):an >> raareporter 2: >> raad:

>> reporter 2: >> raad: (reporter 1 replies in arabic) >> raad: (talking in arabic) ♪ >> magha: rusul says that since her first pleasure marria, she's been forced to work for the cleric who conducted it. she wouldn't tell us his name, only that his office is in kadhimiya. >> rusul (dramatized):

>> maghafi: she says she's been made to do more than a dozen temporary marriages. >> maghafi: >> rusul (dramatized): >> maghafi: >> rusul (dramatized): ♪ >> maghafi: we were now hearing from multiple sources that some clerics were using pleasure

marriages to pimp women and girls. we wanted to find out if they clerics we had secrefilmed were doi this. our reporter rang sheikh salawi. >> salawi (on phone): >> reporter: >> salawi: >> reporter: >> salawi and reporter: >> salawi: >> reporter: >> maghafi: he told r reporter he could offer him a choice of

women in their 20s and 30s. >> salawi: ♪ >> maghafi: back in kadhimiya, we put the same question to sayyid raad. would he provide a woman? >> reporter: >> raad: >> reporter: >> maghafi: we wanted to put our allegations to the clerics we'd filmed. but it was too dangerous to do

it in person. i phoned sayyid raad from london. (phone ringing >> (on phone): hello. >> maghafi: hello, salaam alaikum. (raad speaking on phone) >> raad: >> raad: >> maghafi and raad: >> raad: (phone beeps) >> maghafi: he hung up. ♪ we also rang sheikh salawi, but he didn't respond. we approached iraq's most senior shia cleric, grand ayatollah al-sistani. he declined to be interviewed, but replied in a statement.

"if the practices are happening in the way you are saying, then we condn them unreservedly. temporary marriage is notd allo a tool to sell sex in a way that belittles the dignity and humanity of won." he said the abuses we'd seen were happening "because the authorities were not enforcing the law." we approached the iraqi government on multiple occasions to ask them why they weren't crackingown on abusive pleasure marriages, but they declined to provide anyone for interview.ok a man told "frontline," "if won don't go to the police with their comaints against clerics, it's difficult for the authorities to act." ♪ ma but fo young women across iraq, the's no hope of justice. rusul is still working for the cleric. she feels she has no choice. >> rusul (dramatized):

♪ >> sama? (laughs) sama. i made this film for you. ♪ sama. i need you to understand what we are fighting for. >> go to pbs.org/frontline for more reporting from our partners at thessociated press. >> they began vetting sponsors and families to the extreme. so many children together?y hold

>> and more on life in post-war iraq for women andirls. >> in our shelter we see our women who were the victims of these abuses. in>> connect to the frontle community on facebooktc and twitter anh anytime on the pbs video app or pbs.org/frontle. e frontline is made possi contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.ti and by the corpo for public broadcasting. john d. and catherine t.d by the macarthur foundation, committed to buiing a more jt, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. the ford foundation: working with visionaries on the frontles of social change worldwe. at fordfoundation.org. additional support is provided by the abrams foundation, committed to excellence in journalism. f the pandation, dedicated to heightening public awareness of critical issues. the john and helen glessner family trust. supporting trustworthysm

journahat informs and inspires. and by theli frontline jour fund, with major support from jon and jo ann hagler. and additional sport from through the yuen foundion. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> for more on this and other "frontline" programs, visit our website at pbs.org/frontline. ♪ frontline's, "kids caug in the crackdown" and "iraq's secret sex trade" are available on azon prime video. ♪

♪s. you're watching pb ♪ ♪

'cause nobody knew how depressed i was. and i was so lonely. i'd sit in that room when everybody woulgo to bed, and i would cry. uh. just cry. and i remember looking at the blanket, and i remember seeing the stars. like, there was that thing covering the window. but, right above it i could just see the stars, and i don't even know what it was. but i could see it all. i could see my future. i could feel it. i feel like there was something out there, gi and i just wouldn' up. t with a lot as a kid.