captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight... >> never before has a president engaged in a course of conduct that included all of the acts that most concerned the framers. >> woodruff: ...the xt phase is gaveled in. j the u.s. houiciary committee hears the constitutional aaguments for and nst impeaching president trump over his attemptto bend a foreign government for personal political gain. then, on the ground in london as the president meets with nato allies durina tense period for the 70-year old military alliance. d, rolling back the rule hundreds of thousands of americans risk losintheir food umpmps as the administration finalizes a major policy shift. all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

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skollfoundation.org. >> the lemelson found tion. commit improving lives through invention, in the u.s. and developing countries. on the web at lemelson.org. supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the going support of these institutions: possible by the coion for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the next phase of impeachment comes to order. as nick schifrin reports, the partisan fight over the gal rationale for removing president rump from office took cen stage.

will come to order.ary committee >> schifrin: it is the most rare hearing the house ofre esentatives holds. and from the beginningthis impeachment hearing wasan part judiciary committee chairman jerrold nadler describedtr presidenp's actions as >> never before haesident engaged in a course of conduct that iluded all of the actser that most concd the framers. >> schifrin: the commiee's top republican, doug collins cald the hearing a sham, and accused democrats of trying to remove a president they've opposed since his election. >> you just n't like the guy. you didn't like him since november of 2016. so don't tell me this is about new evidence, and new things, and new stuff. we may have a new hearing room, and we may have new mics, and chairs that aren't comfortable but this is nothing new, folks. this is sad. >> schifrin: at question, whether president trump withheld military aid and a white house meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky, in order to force zelensky to annoce

investigations into democrat presidential candidate joe biden and the 2016 eleion. >> mr. chairman and members of the committee... s ifrin: today four legal scholars testied on whether president trump's actions were impeachable. the three called by democrats, said they were. michael gerhardt of thety univerf north carolina: >> if what we are talking abt is not impeachable, then nothinp ischable. >> schifrin: pam karlan of stanford university. >> if you don't impeach a president who has done what this esident has done, then wt you're saying is, it's fine to go ahead and do this again.ch >>rin: noah feldman of newar hauniversity: >> if we cannot impeach a president who abuses his office for personal advantage, we no longer live in a democracy. live in a monarchy, or live under a dictatorship. >> schif george washington university's jonathan turley, who accused democrats of rushing judgement without proving the president committed crimes. >> i'm concerned lowering impeachment standards to fit a

paity of evidence and an abundance of anger. i believe this impeament not only fails to satisfy the but would create arouschments, precedent for future impeachments. >> schifrin: for two months, the house intelligence committee investigated prent trump's actions, and last night released a final report accusing the president of having "solicited the interference of a foreign government, ukraine, in the 202e u.s.dential election." >> the president solicited assistance from a foreign government in order to assist his own reelection. e at is, he used the power of his office-- no se could possibly have used-- in order to gain personal advantage for himself, distortinthe election. and that's precisely what the framers anticipated. >> schifrin: but tley called the evidence ambiguous, and said president trump's asking zelensky on the phone to investigate 2016 or joe biden, wasn't proof of impeachable conduct.

>> if you were to make a case to george washington that you could impeach over a conversation he had with another head of state, i expect his hair, his powdered hair, would catch on fire. >> schifrin: the house intelligence committee's report also accused president of having "ordered and implemented a campaign tndconceal his t from the public and frustrate and obstruct the house of represeatives." the democratic-called professors said president tmp committed obstruction by ignoring and stifling robert mueller's inquiry into the trump caonaign's possible coordina with russia. >> the full scale obstruction of those subpoenas, think, torpedoes separation of powers, and therefore, your only recourse is to, in a sense, protect your institutional prerogatives, and that includes impeachment. >> schifrin: turley argued the president hadn't committed obstruction, because democrats hadn't given him enough time to respond. >> you set an incredibly short period, demand a hugamount of information, and when the president goes to court, you

then impeach him. if you impeach a president, if you make a high crime and misdemeanor out of going to courts, it is an abuse of power. it's your abuse of power. you're doing precisely what you are criticizing the president >> schifrin: the democratic- called witnesses ao accused president trump of bribery, as understood by the constitution's writers. if you conclude that he asked for the investigation of viceid prt biden and his son foras political s that is to aid his reelection then yes, you have bribery her >> they targeted carl an for mentioning president trump's son and described the experts as irrelevant. republican mat gates: >> when you try to make a little joke out of referencing barron trump. it makes you loom mean. it makes you look like you're attacking the minor child of the

profit united stateswe let's see ian get into th faskt all of the witnesses. of a single material fact of the schiff report, please raise your hand. personal knowledge of a single fact. >> no of not present today: president trump's lawyers. on sunday, white house counsel pat cipollone released a refusing to appear thanvsaid," anation to an academic discussion with law professors does not begin to provide the president with any semblance of a fair process." today, 3600 milefrom washington, president trump attended a nato heads of state summit in london. alongside italy's prime minister, he called the hearing lffair, and declared him innocent. >> the word impeachment is a dirty word, anit's a word that s only supposed to be used only in special occasions. high crimes and misdemeanors. en this case there was no cr whatsoever. not even a little tiny crime. >> today the committee starts consideration of the most awesome power constitutionally vested in the house of representatives.n >> schifrin: i74 the housear

judicicommittee passed three articles of impeachmen including obstruction of justice and using the government for political purposes.tn >> our next wis is admiral bud ebney. >> schifrin: in 1998 the judiciary committee he months of hearings into president clinton before pasng four articles of impeachment, including perjury, obstruction of justice, and abusing hisof ce. today both sides compared trump's actions to clinton's and nixon's, but with different conclusis. >> president nixon abused domest law enforcement to go after his political opponents he's asked a foreign country to do that which means it's sort of like a daily double. >> this is the narrowest impeachment in history. if you rush this impeachment, you're going to leave half the country behind. this isn't an impulse buy item. you're trying to remove a duly- elected president of the united states >> schifrin: for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schrin. >> woodruff: now, we take a

closer look at today's hearingdi with lisa desj, who was in the room today. and our white houserr pondent, yamiche alcindor. so, lisa, to you first, looking at what happened today, talking tooth sides, what do they think they accomplished? and do you now-- do we now have a better wense at these aferlz impeachment, if they go ahead, would look like?ud >>y, flight i don't think any-- either side believes that they might have made major headway voters but they do both believe they made their case. we did learn a little, i think, about democratsre considering pursuing for articles of impeachment. i heard four charges, essentially-- one, that the president abused power. tw that solicited foreign irns ference. three, that hes obtructed congress in this investigation about ukraine. and then, four, judy, the veryin intereone, democrats today ask about obstruction of justice regards to the mueller report. and our reporting, highs and our

producer saharas is khan, democrats onthe committee have told us, representative deutsche, they are considering whether or not, but have not decided, if they ll include mueller-related articles of impeachment. >> woodruff: so, yamiche, listening closely, watching closely, how did republicans onn the judiciary committee make the case for the president? >> weh l, even ohe white house did not have legal representation, what they had was repubeicans making thr cases and defending the president in ways that the white house suport so, first, you had the republican witness, jonathan turley he was making the case that this is, one, going too quickly, tat this is an paesm hearing running out of time and should be taken more cautiously. he also said there is no evidence of quid pro quo, that deprcrats haven'ven their case. he also said bribery shouldn't democrats are making that case. and he made the case, going back to what lisa sai about the

mueller investigation, he pointed out that this is a white house and administration that made the mueller report public. so as a result, they arein forthc another thing they note, lawmakers who are close allies to the president, they are making very, veryery defenses p tesident. we had matt gates of florida and jim jordan of ohio. and all making the case, that representative collins said, this iis about tean brooklyn going back to the 2016 election, and referencing the facthat ere were people in hillary clinton's brooklynmpaign headquarters who were upset out trump winning and that the democrats want to unseat and remove a duly elected president. >> woodruff: lisa, back to you, i know you have taken the time to look back at the president bill clinton impeachment hearings in the house. contrast what we're seeing now with what happened then. >> i watched many hours of those hearings differences are staggering.

first of all, the tone. those impeachment hearings in 1998, began with the republican, henry hye, and the democrats john conyers, thanking each other, bing respectful to each, and believe the prfs faiul not be different from where we are today, with both sides attacking eacother and being quite personal today. also, i think the question is different. back then it was a questn of they knew what the president had drng it was enough to impeach him. today there was more debate over what exaly could be pron what the president did. if he did issue a quid pro quot. e seemed to be a lot of thought that was wrong. the question is what could be proven about that. third, the witnesses. it was all about law professors. in 1998 when they hld the hearings with experts, there were nine witnesses, including military gerals, judges, who spoke to the chain of command and why they thought whate president was doing was a problem for national security or the military. it waske stalders who thought

that parts of government could be affected, not juslaw professors speaking theoretically. >> woodruff: and to yamiche, you know, lisa jut mentioned how that at points today tgot personal in the way the members of congress were directing their questions to the law prssors. what's been the reaction from the white house to this? >> the white house is take s very seriously, and they were reacting in real time. i want to first read a tweet by white house press secretary stephanie gsham: >> so essentially, she's making the case that democrats were being super-partisan and that these witnesses were people who didn't like president trump from the very beginning. but it's really important to also note that the personalness of this, let's listen to what

stanford university professor pamela karlan said about the president's youngest son, barron trump. >> so kdngs coulo no wrong because the king's word was la. and contrary who what president trump has said, article two does not gi him the power to doan hing he wants. and i'll just give you one example at shows you the difference between him and a sayshere can be no titles of nobility. so while the president can name s son, barron, he can't make him a barron. >> what you have is theng professor mahe case that the president can't give his son hereritary noble title. she later apologied for that, saying she regretted saying alat. heo hopes president trump will apologize for some of the things he did. while she was crihetici president, it's important to note there were replicans reading into the record a tweet byelania trump. here's what she wrote:

you had the first lady defending her youngest chierbled the 13-year-old barn trump saying that was out of line. the vice president said this waw really aow for this witness. again, she apologized, but she was alsoci cring president trump, essentiallyying i'm going to apologize, but th president should apologize, too. >> woodruff: interesting the first lady was pulled into this. lisa, finally, back to you. we know themmittee took several breaks today to cast votes, so there was more gog nowrt today beyond this judiciary committee hering. that's right. we're stilwaiting to see what the next steps ar. we do expect more arings. our reporting is there will be some next week. we just don't know when orho. but, yeah, i really want to stress, there were other things to talk about that the house wai doinnically oa bipartisan fashion. look at the three bills that want house passed just in the d lay, judy. the one at the top, criminal justice reform for elderly

prisoners in the federal system. this would allow prisoners of a certain age more opportunity for home release. was a bill th was passed that would sort of rectify a problem in the way citizenship is handled for military kids and kids of state department ployees who a overseas. that was passed. and then, thirdly, jdy, something i think everyone can probably agree on but it has taken a long time to get thrreoh co, a bill that would help sort of limit robocalls, give people and also carriers more powers agaoinstocalls. that passed, and that's going to the president. that happened st today while the impeachment hearing was happening. so congress is getting somee things dn a bipartisan sis, even they're not really talking about it muc >> woodruff: a lot of people are going to be happy about the robocalls. >> year, i think so. >> woodruff: lisa desjardins reporting for us all day long at the capitol. yamiche alcindor,ting from the white house. thank you both. >> woodruff: and, back in the studio with me are sol wisenberg.

he was deputy independent counsel during the whitewater investigation, in which he personally conducted grand jury questioning of president bill clinton. and, frank bowman is one of the experts who submitted testimony on the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanor to the house judiciary committee during the clinton impehment. he currently teaches at the university of missouri school of law and georgetown law, and is author of "high crimes and misdemeanors: a history of impeachment for the e of trump." hello to both the of you, frank bowm, sol wisenberg, good have you both still with us tonight. lead letme start with you, so the democrat had this hearing today in an effort to boster their argument that the president has committed offenses at are worthy of removing him from office-- in other words, that rise to thlevel of impeachment. how far did they go in making that case? >> not very far. hink, at best, it's ra daw.

i think it was a big mistake to limitlet republicans to one scholar, because that's tha scholar was jonathan turley, oo has beeng this a long time. he's very quotable. he's a real po. and he was able, because he was the only oner, to give moe of a flow in his answers and to have more time to respond. they really have two problems here, as i see it, based on what happened today. one, is that the hearings areru d, have been rushes. articles haven't been drawn up yet, intelligence report issued 24 hours fryer to the hearing. and, two, if you wereoing to impeach a president for noncriminal high crimes and misdemeanors it better be big just don't think they made those points. though in reality, each side is going to thin.nk they wo >> woodruff: frank bowman, how do you see it? how well did the democrats do at mairg case today? >> i say two things.

one, i think it was an error for them to have a hearing of this kind until they had decided what thscope of their inquiry is going to be, the scope of potential articles of impeachment, and the theories oh whic were going to proceed. unfortunately, we started this hearing with uncertainty on that point, sort of a smorgz bher of possible impeachment offenses and at made it less effective that it might have been. that having been said, i think i disagree with sol to this extent: i thnk the experts called by the democrats made a very solid case,plaining, first of all, how the constitution works with respect to imeachment; explaining in particular that what happened here was plainly an abusive power by the president of the united states; and, alo, that his behavior and response to the congressional investigation amounts tobstruction of congress, which is itself an impeachable offense. >> woodruff: you get at the questionimented to ask both of

you, and that is of the potential grounds for impeachment, potential rationale for impea, whether it's abuse of power, abuse of the office, whether it's bribery-- which came up today-- obstructn of justice, or obstruction of congress. did any-- did the aruments for any one of those, sol wisenberg, do you think, were those madef more etively than for the others? >> not particularly. again, you've got te country pretty evenly divided on this, and soy need something really major to have happened. and i don't think that it did. >> if sol means you need something major to havppened in this hearing to have moved public opinion, i think that's probably right, and i think thai publicon is probably sufficiently well rooted, that nothing that happened herwould change that. on the other hand fwhat sol means is there needs toe something big that happened that mr. trump did that would merit his impeachment, i think that this-- the matters pertaining to

ukraine are plainly very large, indeed. we not only have an abuse of presidential power, but we have it in a context where he's misusing his power for personal ends, and where he's mhiusing power against a vulnerable country. he's misuse higz power in a way that damages national security interest. that's pretty bif.g st >> woodruff: is what's lack here-- coming back to youren point, sol wrg-- is it a lack of facts to back up these-- the case for any one of these potential article what is it that the democrats haven't provided yet? >> well, to qute professor turley, i think they need arg foundation. clearly, president trump engagen wrongdoing here. it was an abuse of power. >> wdruff: in the ukraine matter. >> ybut it alone, i don't believe,, it alone, is impeachable, because he would be an a position to say it's one-of and you can't just have five or

six or seven grab bags. you have to have-- like i say it either has to be systemic orso thing that's obviously criminal. now, i think you may have that with the obstruction portion of the mueller report, but they don't even seem to know whetr or not theye going to do that. they seem to be in disarray, the democrats. >> woodruff: which is soerthing they decide e not to pursue. how do you see, that frank bowman, what is it the democrats woul cneed to do to make aase, if they were going to? >> oh, i think-- i think-- well, again, i think they've the case.t the argumom the republicans are really two. one say complaint about process, that this too soon rushed and so forth and so on. but as a parof that process argument, they're claim ago and this is really, actually, professor turley's argument one behalf of thezuela-- you can't proceed because the investigation isn't yet complere. he doesn'lly deny that if proven what happened in ukraine is abuse of power or impeachable. he doesn't deny that. saiyou haven't actually

proven it yet. the reason all the is haven't been dotted and the "t's" crossed, the witnesses closest to mr. trump, the people white house of without having to rely on inferences, truch ordered this or that, those people did not ce because trump ordered them n. that in my view san impeachable onls, but it's a point the republicans continual continually want to ally. they want to say thidence is incomplete, but they refuse to conditional the fact that the evidence is incomplete because the president is refuitng to produc >> woodruff:s refusing, which is something we discussedw today, ssenberg, and we also talked about how going forward, t democrats are going ro need to streamline, in you view-- one of you were telling me this-- they're going to need to streamne the case they're making. >> yand i think one of the ways they can do s tharictly as a matter of tactics, i think their best bet is to have the ukraine

incident, and have something from the obtruction sex of the mueller report. because, again, you don't have to have a crime there, buret t was really serious misbehavior in the-- identifyd that rea no one can question in the obstruction section of the eller report. and by the way, if mcgahn ever is allowed to testi-- >> woodruff: this is don mcgahn-- >> the former white house counsel, even thgh he's a very conservative person and was pro-trump, he will be a devastating witness, potentially, against the president. >> woodruff: well, it is-- it was a day of-- it was a different day, not ju typical congressional hearing, but a day for us to go back, lok at t constitution, look at what the founders said, and what ey intended. thank you both very much, frank bowman, sol wisenberg, we appreciate it. >> thanks. >> great pleasure to be here. thank you. >> woodruff: in the day's other

news, president trump headedpe home to the hment ght in at the nato summitndon.inal jabs he called canadian prime wominister justin trudeau faced" for mocking mr. trump to other leaders. stil the alliance declared unity, at least, on the issue of confronting russia. we'll have t details, after e news summary. new doubts arose tay over a possible u.s.-china trade deal. beijing sharply criticized the u. congress over a bill blasting china's mass detention of ethnic muslims. the bill threatens sanctions. chins foreign ministry warne a the move couect overall relations, includi the ongoing trade negotiations. >> ( anslated ): china maintains a nsistent position on the trade issue. we believe only the spirits of equality and mutual respect can help us reach a mutuallyal benefieal. but no one should underestimate our resolution to safeguard national sovereignty, security any attempt to hamper china's development using issues of hong kong and xinjig is just

wishful thinking.dr >> wf: the chinese also objected to president trump suggesting yesterday that a trade deal might be delayed until after the 2020 presidenti election. today, mr. trump today said the trade talks were going very well. meanwhile, mr. trump's trade agreement with japan's primeni er shinzo abe will take effect in january, after it won approv in the japanese rliament today. the deal was agreed to in september, easing japanese tariffs on u.s. farm products. further talks may address a u.s. tariff on cars imported from japan. top ofcials in iran urged todathat jailed prot be treated with what they called "islamic mercy." the jailings came during a crackdown on demonstrations over gas price hikes. in a televised speh, president hassan rouhani claimed again the u.s. hped foment the ptests. but he said some who took part, were innocent.

>> ( translated ): those who were not guilty in this regard, or those whose crime is not major, they have to be treated with mercy and they should be released. >> woodruff: separately, supreme leader ayatollah ali khamenei said protesters who were killed should be considered martyrs i they had no role in instigating the unrest. he urged that their milies be compensated. amnesty international says at least 200 people were kied by security forces. the european union announced today it will likely miss its rget for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. the bloc has been aiming for a 40% reduction by 2030, compared with 1990 levels. today, e.u. environmental officials said theut will be t clos30%. back in this country, the roman catholic bishop of bufnew york resigned over his handling of alleged sexual misconduct by clergy. bishop richard malone said thewo

diocesd be better served by someone else. the vatican had just finished an investigatn into the abuse legations. the buffalo dioces0 is named in wsuits over the claims. u.s. attorney geral william barr drew fire today for his latest comments on policg. in a speech tuesday, he said americans should stop protesti against police, and show them more respect. he warned that those who do not back local officers, could windt up doing witheir services. >> they have to start showin more than they do, the respect and support that lawnforcement deserves. and if communities don't give that support and respect, they might find themselves without the police protection they need. >> woodruff: barr did not specify which "communities" he meant. but, civil liberties and human rights activists charged he was targeting minorities and others

who protest police brutality and racially motivated misconduct. georgia's republican governor tapped business executive kelly loeffler today, to fill a u.s. senate seat. she replaces fellow republican johnny isakson, who has parkinson's disease and is resigning at month's end. congressman doug colns also wanted the senate sepr. he's one oident trump's biggt supporters. emas the senate gets a newr, the u.s. house is losing another vetenyn. democrat deck of washington state announced today he is reting. he said his work on the house impeachment inquiry had worn him down. heck is the ninth house mocrat not to seek re-election, along with 20 republicans. former preside jimmy carter is back home in plains, georgia tonight, after his latest hospital sta he had been treated for a urinary tract infection. just last month, he had surgery

to relieve pressure on the brain from bleeding, causeall. mr. caer is 95 years old. and, on wall street, stocks recouped some of their losses from recent days. the dow jones industrial average gained 147 points to close at 27,649. the nasdaq rose 46 points, and the s&p 500 added 19. still to come on the newshour: nato at a crossroads-- president trump meets with allies at a contentious moment. the new trump administration rule that will bar hundreds of thousands of people from receiving food stamps. and on the hunt for one of earth's surprising climate change winners, wild mushrooms.

>> it was intended to be a military alliance.te a critical but as we report from london, id was insteaision on display. >> reporter: nato leadermay have been marching to the beat of different drummers yesterday. hol 29 fell in line for this morning's family, the official start to celebrate the alliance's 70th anniversary.pr buending nato is one happy family was never going to be easy after yesterday's public airing of grievances and this private conversation, caught on camera, between the leaders of the u.k., france, the necherlands and canada, in w prime minister justin trudeau appears to mock the president. >> his staff's jaws dropped. eporter: they may not be the only jaws to drop, as theid prt openly questioned whether nato should defend

countries that don't pay theirha fair on defense, while adding canada was only semi- delinquent was asked about the canadian leader's comments during a meetin angela merkel.ancellor >> well, he's two-faced. and with trudeau, he's a nice guy. i find him to be a nice guy, but e'e truth is, i called him out on the fact thatnot paying 2%, and i guess he's not very happy about it. >> reporter: trudeau was asked about that candid moment, and president trump's 2% refrain: >> i've had a number of good conversations with the preoudent over thee of this, this, this day and yesterday. i have a very good relationship with president trump and his team. this is a concern the united states legitimately s that every country needs to step up in different ways. >> reporter: 2% is the amount of their g.d.p. that nato countries committed to spend on defense and weapons, like this armored vehicle nato has on display, when russia annexed the ukrainian territory crimea back in 2014.

the 29 member countries haveve ore years to reach the target. a handful of them already have. today, the president dith them >> the two percenters are good friends of mine. >> reporter: the german chancellor was not invited to the lunch, but the two had a very civil conversation. >> it's been a little tough for the united states. we've had a very bad imbalanceny for many years for decades, actually, and we're discussing that right now. >> reporter: president trump also had an unscheduled meeting with turkey's prime minister recetayyip erdogan. after an october phone call, mr. trump announced a u.s. pullout from northern ria, turkey invaded, then mr. trump threatened with economic ruin if he went too far. >> we pulled our soldiers out

and took over the oil. we have soldiers where the oil is. and that's the way i like it. and they can police their own border. and that's what they're doing. they can use other countries if they want, if they want to spend the time and energy. >> reporter: after two days and well over o hours of impromptu press conferences, the president tweeted that he'd done enough and canceled a formal news conference. as he left london, the wte house press office released a triumphant video record of his nato trip, the president wished everyone safe travels. and perhaps, good riddance. for the pbs newshouri'm ryan chilcote in watford, england. >> late today as t president flew home to the u.s. he tweeted:

>> woodruff: the trump omadministration is making big changes to the food stamp program. toy, the u.s. department o agculture finalized a new rule expected to end foodlytamps for ne00,0 people. now known asp, the food stamp program helps feed more than 36 million americans. thfnew measure is the first three initiatives to curtail those benefits. the administration, which is scaling back the size of social safety net programs, says the changes will save the government billions of dollars. amna nawaz has the sto. >> nawaz: judy, the new rule enrces tougher work requirements. states also will have less flexibility to exempt able- bodied adults without dependents or children from those work requirements. the other proposed changes will affect even more people, dropping roughly three mlion people from getting food aid when all is said and done. in announcing the latest rule,

agriculture secretary sonny perdue said he is trying to restore the system to "provide assistance through difficult times, not a way of life."n elaine waxudies this program and has done her own analyses for the non-partisann urstitute. to the newshour. >> thank you for having me. >> nawaz: so the argument fromin the admtration is the economy is doing very well, it's improved dramatically, unemployment is at historic lows. many of these able-bodied adults without children or dependents don't need this assistancee. anym what do you say to that? >> it's true the economy has mproved a great deal, but not for all peopld not in all places. and national or even state-levet unemployment stics can mask a great deal of variation in opportunity. states have had the ability to apply for waivers from therkse equirements and time limits when they felt there were be much harder to do that now. some of e individuals affected

by this chnge are among the most vulnerable. they have very, very low incomes. they often work in unstable jobs. and unlike the characterization of the secretary today, they don't use snap as a way of life. they turn to snap duing periods of unstable employment. and the vast majority of them work wh enecan. >> nawaz: just to clarify a able-bodied adults this willf only affect single adults. is that ur understanding? >> so the term "able-bodied adults without dependents" is an interesting one. it is single adults but they're not all able bodied. we know from rsearch many may have physical and mentmental health issues that createie ba for work. and they may be without dpentses, but that doesn't mean they don't have cldren. they may be nonyocustodial parents, andhenever they're struggling we know they have fewer resources available to provide support for those children. >> nawaz: i do want to ask you about the numbers. if youack a look at thest 20 years of the enrollment in

those foodmp staprograms-- take a look now from 2000 to 2019-- it is safe to say that it is still twice theumber today than it is back in 2000-- although it hit a peak in 2015. what's important to understand about these numbers? have haven't we come down to prerecession numbers >> so the first thing that's important to understand is that we still have more than 37 million pestople whggle with food insecurity, despite a better economy. so that's tha suggests there's stale very significant need for support, even as many people are able to regainmployment. we don't quite knheow what employment challenges are, but we know that many peoplmay ve a criminal justice record that make it more difficult to get employment. they may, in fact, have limited education, may onlya a high school diploma or less.

the unemplment rate for those people is not the same. and so we know in general in the last 20 years, the labor market is ch more unstable. there's been a rise of gig economy, of people worltking le jobs, and i think that's reflected in theumbers we see today. >> nawaz: so yoe saying just because people have a job roesn't necessarily mean that they are tieblvide for themselves and still might need food aid? >> absolutely. and we know many people on snap do work. >> nawaz: let me ask you abors the waiow. you mentioned not all communities are the same. states could issue tem so people could continue to qualify for food assistance.kn what do ww about where they're issued? >> so the waivers have historically been issd in many different parts of the country. about thzen states have used them, either recently across the state or at least in some counties. the administration wiw limit the ability of those waivers to be provided unless

the unemployment rate for 24 months is 6%, and, also, if it's above 20% of the national average. that might not sound that dramatic, but here's the point: -month average means that if unemployment shifts rapidly, states won't be able to respond tot.ha so we're concerned that there may be scenarios where an area coult have an employmte of, say, 9%, and still not qualify for a waiazver. >> nlet me ask you about two of the other rules we sentioned earlier, because th new rule goes into effect in april. there are two more potential rules on t books. one basically does what they say, closing aophole, right, that they say allow households with certain incomes or assets to qualify. the household income would be y $50,000 r for a family of four. that is 200% of the pov level. or households that have more

than $2,250 in total assets. that member would be higher for rule that's proposed at thene moment. there's a second rule as well that could come into efect, and that would just cut the overaod tamp budget. it would cut it by $4.5 billion from the prgram over fie years. they do that by adjusting the eligibility standards. when you look at those two proposed rules, in conjuncti with the new rule today, what would be the combined effect of ose rules? >> that's a really important question. when we look at themdu indily, they may be concern, but over the course of a year we've had three major proposed changes. and we estimate that somewhere around 3.7 million people will lose benefits. and that's noincluding the almost one million children that will lose a direct li to the free lunch program at school. that is tmething tha the administration has acknowledged is a cthonsequence o rule you mentione changing eligibility. >> nawaz: very briefly, the

administration says this will save money. we are saving billions of dolls by doing this. isn't that tru >> i think it will save money. >> and wouldn't challenge that. the short term, and perhaps in the snap program. what we know about snap is that it reduce food insecurity, it reduce poverty, and that people who participate in snap may have lower health care expenditures. with all things being equal, if fewer people are on snap, we can expect those pr outcomes to increase. we may see increased expenses in th medicaid program, changes so to save money say relative concept. glawl elaine waxman of the the urban institute, chank you very or being here. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and we'll be back shortly with a look at how mushroom hunters are sprouting up, and dealing with the effects

climate change. but first, take a moment to hear from your local pbs station. it's

>> woodruff: mushroom huntersd have fant across the forest floor for hundreds of years searching for at can be lucrative and delicious finds. but does climate change have an impact on these fungi? from the cronkite school of urnalism at arizona stat university, melanie porter found weather change isn'tad news for these foragers. >> it's like i said, it look like it's a chellat mushroom. >> reporter: a dacy found on the forest floor only a mushroom lover would treasure. >> these things you need le, a saw. >> reporter: the arizona mushroom society has a mission to provide educational and scientific opportunities for members to learn about mushrooms a hands on environment. >> blow the spores. r orter: the society hosts dozens of workshops throughout the year. >> this could turnouto be four hour five hour hike down the mountain. >> reporter: members also have the opportunity to trek to areas across arizona to look for >> it's the adult idea of an

easter egg hunt. >> reporter: mushrooms can be ed in teas, broths and medicinal remedies, but it takes a careful eye to determine which are poisonous and which are safe this group knows enough about mushroom species to understand not to eat them before they're properly identified. calling brusilla achio gloka. >> reporter: and these mushrooms also bring balance to the forest. >> the ecosystemshwe need the oms just like the beeslo need the frs. the mushros provide the mycelium forephe trees. >>ter: fabian monje is a foray leader for the arizona mushroom socty and he's seen first hand how mushrooms reflect a changing climate. >> mushrooms come and go with the season and how much rain we get. we had a great winter, we could have had a very productive summer if it had continued but you know you can't he both mes. >> reporter:nd while these mushroom hunters see climate h changepening locally, research shows that globally,

fungi could adapt to the changing climate. one study from spain found that wild mushrooms thrive when there are changes in temperatures and moisture across a growing season. in fact they found climatean had no negative long-term effe on mushrooms, it actually helped produce more mushrooms by increasing their fruiting and growg season. >> underside of the gills are even brighter. >> reporter: based on the weather in this part of arizona, foragers said this season was decent, but not the best. >> some years are definitely spottier tn others it has not been the juiciest of years. >> reporter: the study found that these forest gems do wellh in areas wre rain at the beginning of the season and warmer temperatures at the end, like some arizona mountains. >> every monsoon season is different in different areas. but that time is a very small frame and a very small window. er reporter: mushroom hunt window of opportunity by hitti the ails all around the stat they're hopeful that the mushroom crowill continue to

be fruitful. ve so we are just hoping that our season isn'tyet, when the temperatures start to drop the mushroom hide.or >> rr: but they're prepared to say goodbye to these delicacies until next seas. for the pbs newshour, i'm melanie porter with cronkite news in tucson, arizona. >> woodruff: who knew, a benefit from climate change. there you have it. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> you have no idea who might have put thatackage there? >> no, sr,. >> did you plabts a bomb in centennial park. >> richard, this is a capital crime here. >> my son is innocent.

>> do you have any case agast me? >> i report the facts. >> you've ruined this man's life. >> i didn't do this. >> richard jewell, a clint wood firm, rated "r" "p" >> consumer cellular believes that wireless plans should reflect the amount of talk, text and data that you us we offer a variety of no- contract wireless plans for people who use their phone a little, a lot, or anything in between. to learn more, go to consumerular.tv >> andith the ongoing support ofhese institutions and individuals. >> this program was made possibley the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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♪ this may be the closest we come to meeting an alien on earth -- the octopus.ey ouldn't be more different from us. but is a connection possible? scheel: you look at them, and you feel like they're looking back. that's not an illusion. they are looking back. after years ofwistud, one man was driven to find out. scheel: i am going to fill my living room with a large tank of salt water. he'll bring an octopus into his home... scheel: it's coming. it's coming. alright. there we go! ...and introduce her to the family. laurel: her arm is now up my sleeve. meet heidi. laurel: heidi, you're being -- you're being naughty.