robert:the speaker pushes aheadp onchment. >> this is about the constitution of the united states and the facts that leads to the president's violation of his oath of office. >> president is a continuing threat to thatonstitution and our democracy.ro rt: and republicans fight back. >> impeachment hearings today reached a new low. president trump: it's a hoax. it's a big fat hoax. robert: what does it mean for president trump and the nation? announcer: this is "washington week." funding is provided by -- >> before we talk about your investments, what's new? >> well,udrey's expecting.>> tw. >> gndparents. >> we want to put money aside for them so change in plans. >> let's see what we can adjust.

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broadcasting. station from viewee you.your pbs thank you. once again, from washington, moderator robert costa. robert: good evening. it's official, speaker pelosi ha directed the house judiciary committee to draft articles of impeachment against the 45t president, donald trump, moving this process closer to a floor vote.the speaker made the announcement on thursday following weeks testimony about how the president and his allies pressed ukraine to investigate former vice president joe biden and's bid son. >> t facts are uncontested. the president abused his power for his ownersonal political benefit at the expense of our national security by withholding military aid andal cru oval office meeting in exchange for on announcement of an investigation int his political

rival. immediately responded on twitter claiming his conduct has been totally appropriate.mo congressional republicans who at times have been uneasy with this president remain firmly at his side, with few evident cracks. >> today with t speaker's announcement, she has weakened this nation. it was not newews. they always had this prewritten time line from the day they got swornn. robert: joining us tonight, kimberly atkins, senior news correspondent for wbur, josh dawsey, white reporter for "the washington post," susan davis, congressional corresponde for npr, and carl holt, with the thr >> i don't anybody.

i don't hateot anybody, anybody in the world. i was raised in a way that is a heart ful of love and always pray for the president and i i pray for the president all the time. so don't mess with me whencot s to words like that. robert: carl, that qte, "don't mess with me," this is a speaker who reluctantly came to this partly impeachment inquiry, now she's out in fnt. what does you about speaker pelosi and this politi tcal moment? carl: she's tough, that's for sure. this was auestion meant to provoke a response and it got one. "don't mess with me" will be the catch phrase in for quite a while and i think she day and it provoked a sharper response but i think it waso beneficial her because it was

unscripted and it allowed her to lay out the case that this isn't for her -- d i think credibly -- that this is not about her feelings but about tho titution. you're right, she has come around to this reluctantly but we allel know nancyi and once she makes up her mind, she is goingo t move forward and robert: are house democratsere. comfortable with the decision to move forward, sue? susan: they really are. if you look at the vote they had to officially authorize the investigation formalize the process in the committees, that told you where the caucus was. every voten impeachment is a test vote. one thing pelosi did tell members this week is i'm not going to whip this vote. they're looking at the vote oncl ar of impeachment similar to the way they look at votes on war, it's a matter of conscience. th said, pelosi wouldn't move forward unless she was fairly confident they would haves they.

robert: i was at the capitol and ran into vice president pence and you don't see many cracks i. u gtye when you're reporting? kimberly: it's unity on both sides. the an.p. impermissible inquiry, casting aspersions on the legitimacy of it and they' moved away from it because it's harder to argue process so they're settlit's tht president trump isin giving, the same message that president nsllio dfollars dn is spe effort -- millions in facebookds 10's of alone, d an messamogecrs are trying to be unamerican and it's a solides

simplege that republicans can get behind and that's what you'll see, both sidesre lock solid. robert: josh? the campaign, they say record fund-raising numbers, for trump supporters, they feel he's been victimized and this i process and they're promoting, every day they're sendingci sotions and raising quite a bit of money. if you talk to people around the president, in the beginning of tis pcerofe, tha there is now. if you talk tof o closesthedvisers say it's fait accompli, he'll be impeached. they think this will end in a place that will not be fatalistic to him. i'm not se that's true. i think we have a wait to bebsy, the rspresentum got n positive jobs number.

thaist optimism? josh: what gives the white house the optimism is the fact that the repavlicans not broken. when the transcript came out, folks we reticent to praise the president. even liney graham said have to wait and see. a there weren't lot of people on television for a couple of weeks as facts emerged and now the g.o.p. are in a cavalry behind the president in some ways mor unified than in the past. carl: if you go back to the clinto impeachment, they weror ed about democrats and even when it got to the senate, they were worried about how they would react. you're right about the white house, the republicans are solidly behid there. hink nancy pelosi in some way also motivates them. theyant to the push back against her and push back from the people who testified this week which they thought was a ste of time. robert: let's talk about the testimony this week. house democrats continue tois sy sn't about politics. you see it in speaker pelosi when she talks abo prayer a

she's praying for the president, trying to take politics out of it. part ofce that p is having testify and on wednesday the house judiciary committee eestioned several constitutional lerts on whether president trump's actions are impeachable offenses. democrats called three of them and republicans called one. >> on t basis of the testimony and the evidence before the house, president trump has committed impeachable high crimes and crimes and misdemeanors. >> not problem is not that abuse of power can never bepe hable but you have to prove it and you haven't. i believe this impeachmently not ails to satisfy the standard of past impeachments but would create a dangerous precedent. robert: turley's criticism that this is moving too fast, how are democrats countering that?

susan: the timing is one of t things that i think political democrats are the most nervous aboutnd they don't want to be seen as rushing towards impeachment.i think they feel te there and when you talk about thend polling the impression in the white house, democrats are also looking at polling and raising money and they still see aountry that a majority of which not only says the president should be impeached but removed from offic they sees independe breaking their way on tough questions and tweeted out polling about kendra horn, democrat in oklahoma, meant to dunk on her but also showed in a ruby red district, 45% of theup peoplerted impeachment. if you extrapolate that to competitivewing districts and states, i'm not sure the politics of this play well for the president inm the long t and especially for the republicans down the ballot who have given themselves no daylight with this president on this question. robert: as democrats calculate, they're movingorward, taking steps. the speaker's requested articles of impeachment to be drafted.

what do we a knowut wha those articles will be? what's in them? will they include obstruction of justice when it c to the mueller investigation? or will it just b about ukraine? kimberly: there's definitely appetite among some democrats that they want something from the mueller report, obstruction of justice would probably be the easiest. there were 10 points that robert mueller laid out as potential obstruction of justice articles. but on the other handhere are some conservative democrats that are really nervous and they don't think the mueller report landed well. they wtot thi be as narrow as possible and that's one area where allemrats are united, the ukrainian issue. they haven't worked that out yet. i wouldn't be surprised to see an obstruction article but it's not clear yet. >> the cynical view, it's good a have anicle he can vote against. so he can say i gave this serious thought.wh robert this comes to the floor, what will the speaker

bring to the floor? carl: abuse of power,n obstructf justice, probably obstruction of congress and we'll see how broad ty make it. i do think we'll get hints from the hearing on monday whe the attorneys for the various committees will testify and i think through the questioningir and t testimony we'll see what they're up to. whbert: josh, you've been reporting on the house all week. we got news just before the show went to air on friday that the white house will not participate in the house judiciary committee hearings upcoming. house's position?about thehite josh: the fundamental calculation is that there's nothing int for them, that the hime is going to impea and the house has laid out the facts and they're not going to be ae to do it the way ty want to. they think they can participate in the senate in ae way m advantageous to them so they've written off this process.it house counsel office said

impeach us, do it fast. i think whatou'll see is the white house continuing to hammer away at the house aemocratsy prepare for the senate trial, prepare for the strategy, prepare for the lawyers, prepare to have some administrationals e potentially but they're going to write off this house process and call it illegitimate and nott participatell and part of that, bob, is because the president knows he's going toe lose in ouse and the president does not want to participate in the outcome is a loser. it's easier to say we didn't lose, yye p without us. that's a more effective message the presiden sees than doing it the other way. kimberly: i thinklu that's ably right. we know this is a president that doesn't like to go hehas the ad. susan: does he? senate but the idea that he'll see the same level of loyalty from senate republicans that

he's enjoyed in the house is a risky play. not that they vote against him but thedea that the white house can write the rest of the game. kimberly: that's not what i mean. i think there would have to be a dramatic shift in the axis in washington for them to get a majoriy tut a w nould theee end winning and he canse that as a campaign message, i think he'll see that as a win and that'srecisely why they're using this strategy josh out. >> i think the nonparticipation speeds up t democrats. if the white house said they have to do some things, the democrats would slow down.w t looks like they're on a course to do this by christmas. robert: i wonder when you think about the g.o.p. senators, are they different in terms of how they see this than house republicans? houseicans have launched aith e this week, much of the party citing debunked claims about

ukraine as they defend presidt trump from possible impeachment, going against testimony we've heard from many u.s. officials who say ukraine did not interfere in the election in the way house republicans are describing. anator murphy of connecticut democrat, said this week he thought mbe four to five republicans would be considering voting against president trump. time where the republicanent in defense, they were trying to land on a place where they could say what the president did was wrong but not impeachable and the white house hasn't given them that wiggl room and republicans have settled on the president has done nothing wrong, the line settled on by doug collins and honorable heart more in the senate. i think the ukraine strategy is one we've seen before and we'll see continue. they're trying to create a counter narrative, alternative explanation to what went down and why it was justified. bert: rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, back in ukraine this week. what is he doing and that is

white house up to? josh: rudy giuliani is over in ukraine with one american news network, right wing conservative network, meeting with, prosecuto some seen by the u.s. government to be ethically deficient, meeting with some of his alliese's had t with before. he's essentially doing what he did the first te all over again, looking for more evidence to tout the narrative that ukraine interfered with the election and was o beeut debunks of ways but wt rudy is trying to do is to show there is something here, even if it's just a kernel, it gives people a chance to talk about what he's finding there and he's not giving up. there were lots of white houseal offi and g.o.p. allies who to what one person called theack scene of the crime toy essentiaoon dance on stage

of the scene of the crime. that was a quote we had in a piece, it's a remarkable move. kimberly: when you're talking about the timing for the democrats, one thing that has united democrats about tng ti is this idea that it is an urgent matter that is ongoing and you can't wait for an election to try t out president trump, that we need to act right now and rudyg giuliani is giv them the ammunition to push that. robert: as rudy giu is in ukraine, you have house democrats releasing hundreds of s at the house intelligence committee this week, a serious report, in their view.do hohey talk about the giuliani counter to their own report? carl: i do think the democrats look at rudy giulianis someone who hps them throughout this entire pross. robert: even though he's muddyinghecathey point -- lk dor who he's talking to. for the democrats, i think this race has questions in people's minds, like, wow, rudy giuliani

wally doing something nefarious. so i think when you look at this reporting from over in ukraine, people go, oh, wow, this is still happening and to yourt, po think it does add to the democratic argument. i do agree it muddies the waters but the whole uouaine thing, have a few republicans in the senate, john kennedy who sort of embraced this, but if one thing senators like to do, they want tooo more thoughtful than house members so they're going to look ats td go, we're not going to g cght up in this, we don'tanhunter biden here. i had john cornyn tell that this will be a three-ring circus if we get these witnesses. robert: if the senate republicans don't want to call hunter biden and joe biden and chairman schiff, who d republicans call if anyone? is it white house officials or susan: the senate trail is mulheyringickpeople are

yng kn tkihe flothorin but you needo t w shaomeone the mcrats have wanted to question. robert: what is the ftor from the courts? the courtsng up don mcgahn from testifying. could ambassador bolton testify? susan: if he's subpoenaed to appear in senate trial, bolton said he wouldn't do it unless a court told him to. a senate trial is a different matter. if people are subpoenaed to appear before the senate, do they show up?ur i'm not the white house -- this idea of having secretary of state mike pompeond chief of staff come up, will help their case. these are fact witnesses to any ernuf a ondmbheaiet peopl de the white house are saying they want to call,y simply don't have the votesng these peopl to t that tri bo we don't get any number of witnesses. josh: i think impeachment managers would like t question johnoln b iroben: wh what do yof

the democrats and how they're handling the delay on the court side. kimberly: court delays take a lot of time and the democrats, including the factor -- fact they wan to strike while public sentiment is with them, don't want to wait that long and they see tacking on articles of impeachment for obstruction is a better move to move forward now. they don't want to getnto the primaries. robert: there's a tension about the idea, refusing to testify before congress, is it obstruction of jusr not? kimberly: it is. certthnly can mak case it is obstruction of congress because we've seen so far in the court rulings tha have com o have been for house d saying this is a viable, this is a real process, it is viable, you hav tonswer to these requests and if you don't, that's a problem. carl: i think the president may be a littleore reluctant totifye mueller probe, they got a lot of top officials testify -- don s

mcgant 30 hours with them. reince priebus, rob porter, they vealed a lot of damaging facts about the president. the minutia of the way he was running the oval office and shonesty and pervasive conduct that damaged him and that was frustrating when it came out so i think the questiowill be for e white house do they see these witnesses a entirely on their side or not and i d't think the cal clation has been madeet. robert: could i thiseachment showdown affect the government spending talks.rn gont funding expected to expire on december 20. carl: i'm hearing sigss of prog in these talks. i think house members and the senate really want t get to a deal. i talked to richard shelby about wrap this u said i'd like to does anyone really want to shut down the government right now? who's cup --ulpable for that?

i don't think it looks good. susan: if it's up to capitol hill, i don't think there's a utdown. you ask nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell, they can get a deal, even a c.r. where will the president be? that's always the question. rl: everyad a showdown, the president has played a rope-a-dope moment until he tweets, i hate this bill. he usese t moments for leverage. robert:check outurwashington week extra" where we'll continue this conversation anden discuss pres trump's visit to the united kingdom for the nato i'mu night.

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