captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org robert: it was a sleepy week in washington, but not in american politics. >> they have nothing. >> no crime.re robert:dent trump is in florida and the fight over his senate trial continues.th and as e yeart' ends, ts far from the only battl that he faces. >> we need to restore the integrity. >> if the preside claims that he is sot, innocen why doesn't he have all the president's men testify. robert: next.is >> thi "washington week." nunding is proded by- >> before we talk about your investments. >> what's new? >>ti exp. >> twins. >> grandparent

>> weant to put money aside for them. so, let's see what we can do. >> chae in facts. >> ok. >> mom, are you painting again? >> you could sew these. >> change in plans. the change in fidelity. >> additional funding is provided by the foundation committed to bridging cultural differences, the corporation for public badcasting and by contribuons to your pbs channel by viewers like you. once again, tnk. moderator, robert costa. >> is the upcoming impeachment trial all but certain. mitch mcconnell is saying they t

will aquit president and there was flashes of unceainty. lisa murkowski has broken and spoke to a local reporter and does not approve of mcconnell's alliance with the white house. >> when i heard that, i was disturbed. it means we have to take that tep back from being hand-and-glove wit defense. robert: senator doug jones from alabama, tost vulnerable senate democrat told absence news that he remains undecided. >> i'm trying to see if the dots are connected. if thate is case, and i think it is an peachable matter and i thi if they are constent wi innocence, i will go that way, too. kimberly atkins from wbur, a.m.

in a nawaz for the pbs newshour and bob woodward, associate editor and author of "fear, trp in the white house." senator murkowski taking this negotiation for the senate heial. ar concerns about the president's conduct, about the substance of impeachment or about the process? >> it seems so far to be about the process. when mitch mcconnell was talking about working with the president and the quick trial that he expects and that is troubling and reminds of the hearingsic o ju cavanaugh. and jeff flake wanted to take a step back and all of a sudden there was a request for additional f.b.i. it was short and very

gave icted and it republicans a page to pump the brakes a it seems like that what is senatorws mur is interesteded and i could see h convincing susan collins or senator romney or senator gardner who are facing re-election to get behind the plan onsetting the rulesnd does president look like this is going to be set on the fast track and not be fair. robert: the process complaints are out there but there are politiall cap with republicans may fall into line. president trump sa this about the senator last month at a nor event. she hates me. i kind ofike her and doesn't like me. we do so much a forska and get

her vote for something one of these is days. they passed a $1.4 trillion. will that ultimately maybe force her hand? >> i think this senator murkowskiould disagree. we help you in our state and why wouldn't you back me inbahe le i'm facing. you said it reay in the opening this was a flash of uncertainty and wasn't a great of a flash the way the process s unfolded and not exactly a show of our constitutional responsibility or problematic but bit ofesatn and the speculation in a the door has been opened in this time when the senate is waiting for the articles of impeachment so they can begin the process, the door

is open for potential senators and vulnerae republicans and people hole criticized,enator romney, who has been specific when it comes to foreign influence in the united states it's a chance for them to walk through that door. will they have? i have no idea. the more pressure it could be on them. robert: it brings up the big question i have as a reporter, could there b a surprise on the horizon? everyone thinks this cake is bake and washington is asleep, you have been a student of history, could there ba surprise? bob: the psychology of the senators is wow! is is a high-stakes' game and going down in histo ts way or that way, we better handle it right. i recall it to the clinton

impeachment. 20 years ago, he was impeached the house waiting for a senate trial and who parachutes in, jimmy carter and geraldford writing an op ed piece saying the solution is censure where clinto had to admit he lied and of course he isn't going to do that and everyone is going to position themselves on this and make a judgment. is there some compromise? policians are looking for some middle ground. and so i think we are in never-neverand in a very significantay. ot necessarily on the outcome, but on the maneuver iffering. robert: what about leader mcconnell and presi how do you read that relationship?

bob: it is supposedly close. there are not a lot of interests they share other than trying to ensurehe political future. and making sure it's long. so, you know, but i think that's the most important relationship in washington.rt ro the most important relationship? bob: in the s irt runthis trial. everyone's going to be judged. peoplen our business are still looking at trump, the trump presidency, i think there is an effort -- i know, second trump book i'm working o to look in other are that don't have to do with ukraine and there is a lot of research to do and a lot of reporting and i think there has to be an effort to get trump's side on this issues. robert: you think about the

issues out there, that is part of the challenge that isro coing house democrats. speaker pelosi holding upes artif impeachment. house democrats' counselte sugg that president trump could be impeached twice if witnesses such as done mcgahn are forced to testify. quote, if mcgahn's testify supports evidence that president trump committed impeachable fenses, the committee will proceed accordingly by consering whether recommend new articles of impeachment. what is the speaker's ultimate goal until holding up these articles? >> i think she realizes sheas power to wield. and she is going to use it. it could be overbreak -- nothing what is going to be happening any way immediately. she is buying it. itit comesa risk.

if democrats wait tong. and make the entire impeachment process could be political ma in a nufering. because tse actions are ongoing and presents a teat to the constitution. the longer you wait, ther har it is to make that argument. the reason it is so focused on ukraine has left open that door, ife isn't convicted, if he wins re-election, he could risk impeachment. and the democrats could wield it. robe: they have iowa and new hampshire, just a few weeks away, are they in lock-step with nancy pelosi. ? >> they support the impeachment inquiry, beyond that, some of the candidates who are in the

senate vr walked a fine line to main an air of imparget and they are saying i going to reserve judgment and follow the process andll it to unfold. that said, the longer that this sort of plays out, the longer there is any kd of a gap and diminishing returns if it goes too long but the vulnerable g.o.p. senators will continue to face questions about where they stand, whether they agree with urkowski and they have their own hesitations. in october, when cy gardner was pinned down in a hallway and asked repeatedl three,our, five times is it ok for a president to ask it and he didn't answer each time ands it damaging. more of his half of his statets supphe impeachment

inquiry. robert: when you think about president trump, there was a headline in "roll cl" waiting to see what happens with the senate trial but when you look his process and compare it to watertste, democ look for more witnesses and evidence. is there a real difference between what is happening now and what is happening then inf termse evidence what is on hand? bob:ixon case, before he resigned, dozens of hours of tapes and testimony and actualn docu pele wrote things down. let's put the fix in. le s do that. so it's very different in terms of magnitude. what m strikese from looking at this from a distance and considering nancy pelosi, there are extraordinary political

muscle h on part to take the position we are not doing impeachment, then they get the ukraine information. are doing impeachment. at the same time, incredible political muscle on thepu ican side. 173 republicans voting unanimously against impeachment. th is staggering. so we're in a situation where the peopl having staked out eir sides. and you kno how is -- robert: does the white house buckle at all and yield in terms ofes w and evidence or does president trump hold the line? bob: he has committed and it's in the courts. but the courts aren't going to decidewe thi or next month. it's going to the supre court.t' and a classic power context

going on heret that could be larger and the supreme court might wano really do something very serious. if they get one of these i think -- i tried in my own mind to calculate the number of possible scenarios here the next year and i list 14. [laughter] robert: you are they attor here at the table, you think about chief justice roberts, will he play be the rule orke belo mr. kilmer: i have seen so and covering -- he is not a guy who wao take on the political wand and run with it. he is very aware of his role as the chief justice and t role

of the court and reputation and he will concerned that this looks like a fair process and he did his job. i think there will be pressure rufrom president that will he chief justice roberts is one of the people there to protect him and he doesn't see his role to protect him. robert: thisas is the show of 2019 and it's a year that ends th a standoff. if you remember this time last year, the u.s. government was shutdown as president trump and it did e not until january. immigration has remained front and center. i co-moderated this debate and had this exchange with mayor pete buttigieg. >> you said the u.s. owes compensationamories separated. the consensus is that those thousands of children will

suffer life-long trama. are you comtting as president to financial compensation? >>es. what the united states did derstand this president is wrong. we have a moral obligation to make right wt was broken. robert: a year on from that immiationtandoff, that shutdown, where are we? wherest is the unitees in terms of immigration policy? president trump? >> one thing that president trump has succeeded in i doing,t has raced immigration back to a top ise when it comes to american voters around this identity and who we are as americans and who should be allowed to become an amerin d hasn't been that way for many years. where we are, we ar far away when the trump presidency began.

the landscape, leg migtion as well haseen changed.ti there are a number of changes upheld in the courts. you see t among 2020 andidates, people staking much more progressive and the policies. and the family separationha policieswe have covered in ma different ways, that washe one of t zoidsing points in 2019 when people among the president's own supporters when we ke extent of it and the details and the ways it was carrieut and the complete lack of planning that went into separating minor children from their parents. it was a breakingoint. it is not something he wants to come back to but he comes back to whenis back is against the wall.

bob: h would you compensate people, very good question to the mayor? and he said -- hed s off. that smacks of -- howo you administer that and how do you decide -- robert: where are the democrats on immigration? if you look ahead to 2020, where are they going to be? >> mayor buttigieg has gone that far saying yes we have to be accountable when we cause great harm. no other candidate is saying that right now but very easy policy decision and message for candidates to say is what i will is change these policies that thtrump admistration has put into place. when you put them, providing ao

path citizenship, democrats haven't managed to do it yet. robert: you have the economy nor so many people, frontr and cen as well. ae president is trying to get trade deal done is that an issug fa him in 2020 with the jobs and stock market so high? >> the important deal with china, the tariff war was really harming a lot of peopl farmers, harming manufacturing. there were real wking people who were feeling the pinch from that and coming to a conclusion wi be a big problem for him. myotherwise the eco has been really strong. i thought the one thing thahe could be biggest problem for donald trump isf the economy tanked before the election.

i'm not so sure. other what he does, his supporters may stay with him, they stayed with him longer with him parcularly farmers throughout this china trade war and they are thet e conclusion. is the ng economy biggest win at the president's back. bo and almost a hurricane at least at the moment. i'mg to step back a little bit and what have we got? we have two americans. they have been split on mpeachment and trump and immigration. there is an important split on heth care. idea of medicare for all,un rstand the force behind what the 160 p millionple or more who have prate insurance and one of theled rules o

management at the "washington post" was, don't try to fix it if it's not broken. not hose people think it's necessarily broken. they would like it to be better. robert: other half of america feels they want the whole system to change. you hear it from senator sanders and senator warren and thas i imagining traction. bob: we'll see, and there is this sense right now, is there ing to be a crisis thatp? defines tr if it's the ecomy that thehu icane is back, you say -- and you're right that trump supporters stick with him, but i think there are a lot of people who don't like him but sticking with him because of the economy. robert: what is your perspective reporting-wise, moderating and

talking about health care.is here a debate where they are moving on health care and hre theylaying out? >> one of the most significant changes we saw within just the democratic party in the spectrum of medicare of all or slight changes to the system as it exists building back up the affordable care act, was senator warren shifted her position and went to implement a medicare for all plan and t adopting plan that the moderate candidates had was a slow role out to a single payer system and entually moving to medicare for all. andrying to do it like that. but it was a o b a walkback for her. i don't think the democratic candidates have figured out which way the candidas need to

go. robert: i wonder about nationalism. immigration, you look at the u.k., borrowries johnson and the conservatives winning over isthere. nationalism president trump's message on race,, immigrati identity, is that again at the heart of his 2020 msage? > yes. everything donald trump has done in policy w echoest he said on the campaign trail and no reason to pleen he has changed that because he hasn't suffered besides the impeachment, hasn't suffered any pushback to that nd hasn't paid a political price. he thinks that is what his supporters want and he is giving e -- everyone theudial appoines and checking all of those boxes that he lai out. and i don't see any reason that

he thinks that he needs to change that.em therats will have to change their message. bo l it soundse he is going to be re-elected. it depends on the democrats. the difference, the x-factor is the democratic h candidate a he or she campaigns. bob: i think in the way trump los at it in practice is being tough, being a hard-ass in almost every opportunity thatme his way and that's very appealing topl p in this -- i think this is an era on the international front, great instability, great ris are ing taken. and it' not clear what the pocies are. but there he is. and he can tweet anything.

as younow, people who work nor him wake up at k a.m. in a cold sweat, my god, what has he tweeted. and if he hasweed nothing, then go back to sleep for three more hours and check for t 6:00 a.m. tweet. it isou, tough,ough. and i think -- iasascinated that you say he has been successful on immigration, you mean politically? >> if you look back to the 2018 mid-term elections, what msage d we hear from president trump, it was not just dointhe economy. robert: we could talk all night. thank you for sharing your evening with us and this year. on behalf of our whole team. i wish you the best in 2020. continue this talk with the focus on president trump and

later posted on our website. i'm robert costa. good nht. corporate funding for "washingn week" is provided by -- additionalunding is provided by youing foundation, committed to bridgingultural differences in our communities. the plication for public broadcasting and contributions our public broadcasting from viewers like you. thank you.

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