captioning performed by the national captioning institute, is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org robert: it was washington, but not in american politics. >> they have nothing. >> no crime. bert: predent trump is in florida and the fight over his nate trial continues. anea as the yr end that's far from the only h battle thate faces. >> we need to restore the integrity. >> if the president claims that he is so innocent, why doesn't he have all the president's men testify.. robert: ne >> this is "washinon week."nu ing is provided b -- >> before we talkou about

investments. >> what's new? >> expecting. >> twins. >> grandparent >> we want to put money aside for them. so, let's see what we can d >> chae in facts. >> ok. >> mom, are you painting again? >> you could sew these. >> change in plans. the change in fidelity. >> additional funding is provided by the fouation committed to bridging cultural differences, the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs channel by viewers like you. once again, thank. moderator, robert costa. >> is the upcoming impeachment

trial all but certain. mitch mcconnell is saying they willquit the president and there was flashes of uncertainty. lisa murkowski h bken and spoke to a local reporter and does not approve of mcconnell's white house. the >> when i heard that, i was disturbed. it means we have to take that step back from being hand-and-glove with the defense. robert: senator doues from alabama, the most vulnerable senate democrat told absence news that he remains undecided >> i'm trying to see if the dots are connected. if that is the case, and i think it is an impeachable matter and i think if they are consistent with ice, i will go that way, too.

kimberly atks fro wbur, a.m. in a nawaz for the pbs newshour and bob woodward, associate editor and author of "fe, trp in the white house." senator murkowski taking this negotiation forhe senate trial. are her concerns about the esident's conduct, about the substance of impeachment or about the process? >> it seems so far to be about the process. whenitch mcconnell was talking about working with the presidenk and the q trial that he expects and that is troubling and reminds of the hearings of justice cavanaugh.f and j flake wanted to take a step back and all of a sudden

there was a request for additional f.b.i. probe. it was short and very constricted and itanave republ a page to pump the brakes and it seems like that what is senator murkowski is interesteded and i could see her convincing susan collins or senator romney or senator gardner who are facing re-election to get behind the plan onsetting the rulesnd does president look like this is going to be set on the fast track and not be fair. robert: the process complaints are out there but there are political capital with republicans may fall into line. president trump said this about the senator last month at a donor event. she hates me.

i kind of likeer a doesn't like me. we do so much for alaska and get her vote for something one of these is days. they passed a $1.4 trillion. will thatim uely maybe force her hand? >> i think this senat murkowski would disagree. we help you iur state and why wouldn't you back me in the battle i'm facing. you said it really in theop ing this was a flash of uncertainty and wasn't a great of a flashhe way the process has unfolded and not ectly a show of our constitutiol responsibility or problematic but bit of hesitatn and th speculation in a the door has been oned in this time when the senate is waiting for the

arcles impeachment so they can begin the process, the door is open for potentialor sen and vulnerable republicans and people hole criticized, senator romney, who has been specific when it comes to foreign influence in the united states, it's a chance for them to walk through that door. will they have? i have no idea. the more pressure it could be on them. robert: it brings u theig question i have as a reporter, could there be aurprise on the horizon? everyone thinks this cake is ba and washington is asleep, you have been a student of history, could there be a rprise? bob: the psychology of the senators is wow! this is a high-stakes' game and going down in history this way or that way, we better handle it

right. i recall it to the cnton impeachment. 20 years ago, he was impeached h in these waiting for a senate trial and who parachutes in, jimmy carter and geralord writing an op ed piece saying the solution is censure where clinton had to admitd he lied of course he isn't going to do that and everyone is t goingo position themselves on this and make a judgment. is there some compromise? politicians areng loo for some middle ground. and so i think we are in never-never land in a very significant way. not necessarily on e outcome, but on the maneuver iffering. robert: what about leader

mcconnell and president trump, r how do yod that relationship? bob: it is supposedly close. there are not a lot of interests they share other than trying to insure their political future. and m sure it's long. so, you know, but i think that's the most important relationship in washington. robert: the most important relationship? bob: in the short run in this trial. everyone's going be judged. people in our business are still looking at trump, the trump presidency, i think there is an effort- inow, second trump book i'm working on, to look in otherha are don't have to do with ukraine and there is a lot of research to do and a lot of reportingnd i think there has to be an effort to get

trump's side on this issues. robert: you think about issues out there, that is part of the challenge that is confronting house democrats speaker pelosi holding up articles of impeachment. house democrats' counsel suggested that president trump could be impeached twice if witnesses such as done mcgahn fo ared to testify. quote, if mcgahn's testify supports evidence that president trump committed impeachable offenses, the committee will proceedor angly by consering whether to recommend new articles of impeachment. whats the speaker's ultimate goal untilse holding up t articles? >> i think she realizes she has power to wield. and she is going to use i could be overbreak -- nothing what is going to be happening

any way immediately. she is buying it. it comes with a risk. if democrats wait too long. and make the entire impeachment process could beolical ma in a nufering. because these aions are ongoing and presents a threat t the constitution. the longer you wait, the harder it is to make that argument. th rson it is so focused on ukraine has t left opt door, if he isn't convicted, if he wins re-election, he could risk impeachment. and the democrats could wield it. robert: they have iowa and new hampshire, just a few weeks away, are they inocstep with pelosi. ? >> they support the impeachment

iniry, beyond that, some of the candidates whon aree senate vr walked a fine line to maintain an air of imparget and they are sing i'm going to reserve judgment and follow the process and allow it to unfold. that sai the longer that this sort of plays out, the longe there is any kind of a gap and diminishing returnsgo if i too long but the vulnerable at g.o.p. ss will continue to face questions about where they stand, wheer they agreeith murkowski and they have their own hesitations. in october, when cory gardner was pinned down in a hallway and asked repeatedly, three,r, five times is it ok for a presidento ask it and he didn't answer each time and it

was damaging. more of his half of his state supports the impeachment inquiry. robert: when you think about president ump, there was a headline in "roll cal wting see what happens with the senate trial but when you look at this process and compare it to watergate, democrats look for more witnesses and evidence. is there a real difference betweenpehat is hng now and what is happening then in terms of the evidencehat is on hand? bob: nixon case, before he resigned, dozens of hours of tapes and a testimo actual documents. pele wrote things down. let's phe fix in. let's do that. so it'sy v different in terms of magnitude. what str fes mem looking at this from a distance and

considering nancyi, pelhere are extraordinary political muscle on her part to take the positi we are not doing impeachment, then they gethe ukraine information. we are doing impeachment. at the same time, incredible political muscle on the republican side. 173 republicans voting unanimously against impeachment. th is staggering. so we're in a situation where the people having staked out eir and you know, how is -- robert: does the white hou buckle at all and yield in terms of witnesses and evidence or does president truhe hold line? bob: he has committed and it's in the courts. but the courts aren't going to decide this week o next month.

it's going to the supre court. and it's a classic power context going on here that couldn't be largerhe and supreme court might want to really do sethingery serious. if they get one of these cases i think -- i tried in my own mind to calculateof the numbe possible scenarios here the next year and i list 14. [laughter] robert: you are the here at the table, you think about chief justice rerts, will he play be the rule or below key? mr. kilmer: i have seen so and covering -- he is not a guy who wants to take on theal polit wand and run with it. he is very are of his role as

the chief justice andol the of the court and reputation and he wilhal concerned this looks like a fair process and he did his job. i think there will be pressure from president trump that will he chiefti j roberts is one of the people there to protect him and he doesn see his role to protect him. robert: this is the s lastw of 2019 and it's a year that ends with a standoff. if you remember this time last year, the u.s. government was shutdown as president trump and it did not end until january. immigration has remained front and center. i co-moderated this debate and hadng this exc with mayor pete buttigieg. >> you sai the u.s. owes compensation for families

separated. theus conses that those thousands of children will suffer life-long trama. are you committing as president to financialomnsation? >> yes. what the united states did understand this psident is wrong. we have a moral obligation to make right what wasron. robert: a year on from that immigrationtandoff, that shutdown, where are we? where is the united states in terms of immigration policy? where is president trump? >> one thing that president ump has succeeded in doing, it has racedmmigration back to a top issue when it comes to american voters around this identity and who we are as a american who should be allowed to become an american and hasn't been that way for many years.

where we are, we are f away when the trump presidency began. the landscape, legal migtion as well haseen changed. there are still a number of changes upheld in the courts. you see among the 2020 candidates, pple staking muchro moreessive and the policies. and f tily separation policies that we have covered in ma different ways, that was one of the zoidsing points in 2019 when people among the president's own supporters when we knew extent of it and the details and the ways it was carried out and the complete lack of planning that went into separating minor children from their parents. it was a breakingoint. it is n something he wants to come back to but hees back

to when hisack is against the wall. bob: howould you compensate people, very good question to the mayor? and he sai -- he slid off. that smacks of -- how do you administer that and how do you decide -- robert: where e the democrats on immigration? if you look ahead to 2020, where are they going to be? >> mayor buttigieg has gone that far saying yes we have to beun acble when we cause great harm. no other candidate is saying that right now but very easy policy decision and message for candidates to say is what i will do is change these policies that the trumptr adminion has put

into place. when you put them, providing a path to citizenship, democrats haven't managed to do itet. robert: you have the economy nor so many people, front and center as well. the president is trying to get d tradl done is that an issue facing h in 202with the jobs and stock market so high? >> the important deal with yhina, the tariff war was rea harming a lot of people. farmers, harming manufacturing. there were real working people who were feeling theinch from that and coming to a conclusion will be a big problem for him. otherwise theee economy has really strong. i thought the one thing that could be the biggest probl for

donald trump is if the economy tanked beforehe election. i'm not so sure. her what he does, his supporters may stay with him they stayed with him longer with him particularly farmers throughout this china trade war and they are there at the conclusion. the strong economy is the biggest win at the president's back. bob: and almost a hurricane at least at the moment. i'm trying to step back aite bit and what have we got? we haveca two ame. they have been split on impeachment and trump andat immin. there is an important split on heth care. this idea of medicareor all, understand the force behind what the 160 million people or morew

have private insurance and one of theled rules of management at the "washington post" was, don't try to fix it ifs it broken. and those people think it's not necey broken. they would like it to be better. robert: other half of america feels they want the whole system to change. you hear it from senator sanders and senator warren and that is imagining traction. bob: we'll see, and there is this sense right now, is there e going to a crisis that defines trump? ift's the ecomy that the hurricane is back, y say -- and you're right that trump supporters stick with him, but i thk there are a lot of people who don't like him but sticking with him because of the economy.

robert wha is your perspective reporting-wise, moderating and talking about health care. is there a debate where they are moving hnlth care and h they are playing out? >> one of the most significant changes we saw within just the democratic party in the spectrum of medice o all or slight changes to the system as it exists building back up the affordable care act, was senator warren shifted her position and went to implement a f medicare all plan and adopting the plan that the moderat candidates had was a slow role out to a single payer system and eventually moving to medicare for all. and tryingo do it like that. but it was a bit of a walkbackr

er. i don't think the democratic candidates have figured out which way the candidates need to go. bert: i wonder about nationalism. immigration, you look at the u.k., borrowries johnson and the conserintivesng over there. is nationalism president trump'e messn race, immigration, identity, is that again a heart of his 2020 message? >> yes.ng everyt donald trump has done in policy echoes what he said on the campaign trail and no reason to pleeven he has changed that because he hasn't suffered besides the impeachment, hasn't suffered any pushback tthat andai hasn't a political price. thinks that is what his supporters want and he is giving e -- everyone the judicial

appoines and checking all of those boxes that he laid out and i don't see any reason that he thinks that he needs to change that. the democrats have to change their message. bob: it sounds like he is going to be re-elected. >> it dependsn e democrats. the difference, the x-ftor is the democratic candate and how he or she campaigns. bob: i think in the way trump looks at itn practice is being tough, being a hard-ass inst al every opportunity that comes his way and v that'sy appealing to people in this -- i think this is an era on the internationalnt f great instability, great risks are being taken.

and it's not clear what the policiesre. but there he is. and he can tweet anything. as you know, people who work nor him wake up at k a.m. in a cold sweat, my god, what has he tweeted. and if he has tweeted nothing, then go back to sleep for three more hours c andck for the 6:00 a.m. tweet. it is tough, tough,ough. and i think -- i was fascinated that you sayeee has successful on immigration, you y mean politic? >> if you look back to the 2018 mid-term elections, what message did we hear from president trump, it was not just doing the economy. robert: we could talk all night. thank you for sharing your evening with us and this year. on behalf of our whole tea wish you the best in 2020.

weontinue this talk with the cus on president trump and later posted on our website. i'm robert costa. good nht. corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by -- additional funding is provided by you wing foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in ourti commu. the publication for public broadcasting a contributions to our public broad sting from viewers like you. thank you.

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