captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, the numbers keep rising. as another week comes to a close, covid 19 claims more lives and shows signs it won't go away soon. then, feeling the pain: the april jobs report shows an economy in freefall. unemployment nears 15%, the worst the u.s. has seen since the great depression. plus, hitting home-- how places in the western united states are handling their coronavirus cases and efforts to reopen. and it's friday, mark shields and david brooks break down the justice department's dropping of the michael flynn case, the

ongoing pandemic response and more. all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.

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>> woodruff: the coronavirus pandemic has now taken the u.s. economy back to some of its darkest days. new unemployment data put the situation in stark relief today. and, the human cost continued to mount, with some 77,000 dead. amna nawaz reports on this day's developments. >> nawaz: long lines at food banks and empty restaurants. snapshots of a shattered economy ravaged by the covid19 pandemic. the labor department reported more than 20 million jobs were lost last month, driving unemployment to 14.7%, its highest point since the great depression. bartender sara barnard was among those who recently lost her job. >> i thought it was like kind of just a joke. i was like, "well this is going to last a week and then they're going to be like, okay, everything is settling down you can go back to work." i had no idea that it would be two-plus months and like still we have no idea of when we're going to be able to open.

>> nawaz: among some minorits, already hard hit by the pandemic's health crisis, the economic toll became even more dire. among black americans, unemployment jumped to more than 16%. for hispanics, the figures are even more jarring. with unemployment hitting 18%. according to one recent poll, 61% now say they've experienced some sort of household income loss. that's compared with 46% of americans overall. president trump reacted as the numbers rolled out this morning, during a phone interview with" fox and friends": >> those jobs will all be back, and they'll be back very soon. and next year we'll have a phenomenal year. >> nawaz: but many economists have warned that repercussions will be felt for months, maybe years to come. and even the president remains vulnerable to the pandemic's reach. the white house confirmed today that a staffer for vice president mike pence tested positive for the virus. >> i'm not worried. look, i get things done, i don't worry about things.

i do what i have to do. we're taking very strong precautions at the white house, but again, we're dealing with an invisible situation. >> nawaz: also today, lawyers for dr. rick bright, a health and human services official ousted from his post, said a federal watchdog found he was removed in retaliation for opposing the stockpiling of a malaria drug touted by the president as treatment. another report, this one looking at the small business administration's first rollout of billions of dollars in aid said the agency didn't stick to congressional rules and set restrictions that could actually hurt borrowers. meanwhile, states across the country continue to wrestle with how to mitigate the financial fallout. in california, some stores and factories deemed low-risk were back in business tod, including ginger lee's los angeles florist shop, packed with the mother's day rush. >> everybody wants to get back >> yeah, it's been a struggle, but i think we're going to be okay if we all follow the rules

and maintain, like they say, wear the mask, social distance. i think we'll be okay. >> nawaz: in texas, new safety measures, including face shields and glass barriers, were put into place at nail and hair salons before re-opening. >> i'm going to keep myself behind my client, never in front of my client. >> nawaz: businesses are now navigating how to safely re-open in more than half of all u.s. states, moving to ease pandemic restrictions. though some state leaders are taking those steps without meeting white house benchmarks. others, are moving more cautiously. new york governor andrew cuomo: >> you can pull up the countries that reopened because they had political pressure and then saw that infection go right through the roof and then they did a 180 degree turnaround two weeks later: whoops, we made a mistake. i don't want to "whoops we made a mistake." >> nawaz: but governnts across the world are weighing when and how to accept those risks.

in south korea, recently relaxed restrictions led to a new cluster of cases, all linked to nightclubs in seoul. officials ordered them closed for a month. the country had seen it's lowest daily spike in cases earlier this week. but now, even plans to reopen some schools next week could be delayed. for the pbs newshour, i'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: back in this country, a new oversight committee in the u.s. house of representatives demanded today that large, public corporations return funds they received from a program designed to help small business. and, wall street shrugged off the dismal jobs report, as investors bet the worst is over. the dow jones industrial avera gained 455 points to close at 24,331. the nasdaq rose 141 points, and, the s&p 500 added 48. as we've heard, today's jobs report detailed a picture of devastating unemployment nationwide not seen since the

great depression. let's look at its findings and the challenges of getting the economy up and running again. neel kashkari is the president of the federal reserve bank of minneapolis. he was assistant secretary of the treasury under in 2008 and 2009, where he oversaw a major part of the government's efforts to stabilize the system during the 2008 financial crisis. neel kashkari, welcome to the "newshour". what words can you use to describe what's goinon right now with our economy and what's happened to ople's livelihoods? >> it's devastating. as you said, the official unemployment rate isn't 14.7%, but if you dig below the numbers i think it's around 22% o 23%, when you consider the tens of millions who have lost their jobs. that data is a couple of weeks old. it's probably higher than that. a uple of months ago, i was optimistic and hopeful maybe we

would have a v-shaped recovery, shut things down, clamp down on the virus and have a quick recovery. we've learned in the last couple of months the virus is continuing to spread, tragically many are getting it and others are dying. i think we're in for, unfortunately, a slow, long recovery rather than an immediate bounceback. >> woodruff: i want to ask you why you belie that because just this morning we heard president trump say, and i'm quing, those jobs will all be back, they will be back very soon and next year we're going to have a phenomenal year. >> well, as governor cuomo mentioned and your reporting, we look around the world where the virus is spreading, when they relaxed the controls and social distancing, it tends to flare back up again. this virus came to america when one person had it, we didn't know it and it ended up spreading through society and can spread again. when we study past penches, the flu pandemic of 1918 came in the

spring, created a lot of havoc in the spring, went quiet over the summer, people thought the worst was behind us, then it flared back up again and the devastating damage was done in the fall. obviously, we have to avoid that. we know the end point is a vaccine or therapy, but the he'll experts say that's probably a year or two away. so we have to learn how to live with this virus, reopen in a smart manner while preserving health and safety, but that means a muted, a more gradual recovery. >> i read one economist said today there is no safe place in the job market today. no place that's safe from job cuts. do you think that's correct? >> i think that's correct, but we know that these -- unfortunately, what's so tragic about this crisis i it's disproportionately falling on service workers, lower-income, lower-wage and lower-skill service workers. so women are being affected more than men with the jobs cuts, minorities are being affected,

and the less educated are being more affected. so the people who can least afford to have their incomes get hammered are the ones who are disproportionately being affected by this, and that's what's tragic about this. the good news is congress is acting very aggressively, the federal reserve is acting very aggress elf. i think the u.s. government is going to fully stand behind our economy, but, unfortunately, there's nothing they can do to speed this up, it's going to take time. >> reporter: i want to ask about that, but quickly, when you talk about the unfairness of how this is hitting people at the lower end of the economic scale, does that mean it's going to be harder to come out of this? >> it is. you know, in many cases, those workers were the last ones to recover from the 2008 crisis. after ten years, we were just beginning to finally rebuild our labor market, put americans back to work, and the lower-income workers were seeing wage gains,

and here comes this virus and targets and hammers them. that's what's so unfortunate about this and why we have to do everything we can to get them the assistance that they need until the healthcare system can catch up and get control of the virus, ultimately solving the virus is what's going to solve our economy. >> woodruff: that's what i want to ask you about, neel kashkari. what is it going to take? i mean, how much more money is it going to require the federal government to provide for the american people, for them to get through this? >> well, first of all, we have to spend whatever it takes to support vacce development and therapy development and widespread testing. any dollar we spend there will more than pay for itself in needing less money to support the economy. so that's the first part. the second part is i think we need to start reopening businesses where you can actually socially distance, where you can wear masks. some businesses lend themselves to that. others like a movie theater

simply don't. then we start to focus the economic assistance on those workers and folks that need to socially isolated indefinitely. we know that younger workers are at lower risk than older workers and those with pre-existing conditions. i think if we shift toward targeting the assistance to those who are most vulnerable, i think we'll be able to get into a place where we can sustain this for a year or two because we'll be able to need to sustain it for a year or two. >> woodruff: but are you saying the government's pockets are empty -- don't have a bottom, in so many words, so that the government can do what's necessary for people who are going to have no income or very little income for a long time to come? >> i think, you know, our chairman of the federal reserve talked about the great fiscal power of the united states of america. i think that's right. i think the government has the resources to support the economy thugh this period and to get through it, and the more we can focus it on those who need the

most assistance, the longer we'll be able to do it. but then, of course, we have to defeat the virus in our healthcare system, that is a vaccine, that is a therapy, to get this behind us and get the economy back on its own two legs, so to speak. >> woodruff: neel kashkari, president of the federal reserve bank of minneapolis. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, two white men in georgia made their initial court appearance in the killing of a black man, ahmaud arbery, a case that has sparked national outrage. gregory and travis mcmichael face murder d assault charges. they say they thought arbery was a burglary suspect. they were arrested last night, after video emerged of them shooting arbery in february, and

after the state bureau of investigation got involved. >> we base our decisions on two things: one are facts and the other is the law. whatever the facts are, we apply the law to it. if the law says what the facts are is a felony murder then we take the warrants for it. i'm very comfortable in telling you that there's more than sufficient probable cause this case for felony murder. >> woodruff: in brunswictoday, a crowd of hundreds gathered outside the county courthouse, on what would have been arbery's 26th birthday. the c.e.o. of boeing says the company now expects to resume production of its 737 max jets this month. david lhoun said today he is confident of meeting that schedule. the 737 max was grounded in march of last year, after two overseas crashes that killed 346 people. and, the eastern u.s. is getting an unwelcome visitor for mother's day weekend. a late-season polar vortex,

dipping down from the arctic, is bringing unseasonable cold. snow began falling today across parts of new england. the system could also bring record low temperatures as far south as the gulf coast. still to come on the newshour: a report from the american west as approaches to reopening vary widely. award-winning local news outlets struggle to survive the pandemic. mark shields and david brooks break down the government's response to the pandemic. plus much more. >> woodruff: the toll of covid- 19 has been focused on the nation's hot spots, from new york and new jersey to louisiana, michigan and

california. but there are many counties in states across the rural west ere case numbers are in the single digits,ith no deaths. stephanie sy takes a look at the "covid divide." >> reporter: protests across america have pointed to a dilemma state officials have been grappling with since the coronavirus outbreak began-- how much economic pain should business owners and employees endure to protect the public from covid-19? in urban areas, where people live and work in close contact, there's less debate, but across parts of the west, in towns of only a few thousand people, the question can be more complicated. >> we are so remote and rural, there wasn't a lot of risk here. >> reporter: jennifer ramsey owns the iron bar, a gym in pinedale wyoming. the surrounding county, called sublette, has recorded one case of covid-19, and no deaths.

>> people were doing their part and social distancing. people wanted to open up, they were worried about their livelihoods. >> reporter: with that in mind ramsey defied the statewide order and re-opened, only to be shut back down. >> this business pays for everything, my mortgage, utilities at home. i ended up getting an eviction notice. i was pretty stressed out about that. >> reporter: with lockdowns now relaxing in wyoming, she was allowed to reopen in recent days with precautions in place. across town, the cowboy bar is also open, partially. owner lila golden also leases space to a barbershop and a restaurant in the building. >> all three of us have suffered from it. i don't think wyoming should have been shut down, let alone sublette county. >> reporter: she found a workaround to keep her business open-- serving food and drinks outside. the county health officer said she wasn't violating the state's order. >> he said he didn't have a

problem with it, but we had to keep at least six feet social distance as long as we did that, and a bartender brought drinks and another one took money then we could do this. >> they found a little loophole. >> reporter: dr. brendan fitzsimmons is the health officer in sublette county. his fear is overwhelming the region's health care facilities. >> we don't have a hospital and so we're dependent on some of the surrounding hospitals to take our patients with the virus. you don't know where you are today, you know where you were two weeks ago. if we had a cluster of cases in this county right now, 30, 40 people who are very ill, it could be very difficult for us to deal with. >> reporter: sublette county commissioner chair dr. david burnett cautions that these towns are not bubbles. >> even though we're small, isolated and rural, we have lots of traffic through this area. we're impacted by seasonal workers. we have the oilfield community that brings in pple from the

outside. we're on the map in terms of visitorsanting to come to our county. >> reporter: nearby in stern idaho, rigby mayor jason richardson argues the one size fits all state order doesn't work. >> we have some pretty clear that in all southeast idaho, we have had zero deaths. in our county, we've had four cases. we don't face the same thing face over in boise or in blaine county here, where we don't have that community spread that you're seeing there. >> reporter: richardson says the closure of non-essential businesses in rigby, the principal town in the county, has devastated pple's finances. >> what i hear outside the news are stories about families that aren't able to make their payments. car insurance their health insurance, their mortgages. those difficulties pile up and they become just as dangerous and you know, fearful as the pandemic itself. >> we're ready to open any time. >> reporter: from his empty mexican restaurant near idaho

falls, juan hernandez says he and his wife have lost 75% of their business and should be able to welcome customers now that they've taken necessary measures. >> we can take tables out so we can separate it to show people that they don't have to be close to each other. we do a lot more cleaning. we use gloves, we use masks to show people that we clean. >> reporter: but some idaho residents are unsure. >> i'm cautious, but not paranoid. i think we're kind of doomed for a second go-round, if we on up and get too close too quick. >> i don't know if i'd be comfortable because i'm kind of at high-risk, you know with diabetes and a couple other auto-immune disorders. >> reporter: in montana, there have been no known covid-19 cases in nearly half of the state's 56 counties, officials say, in part because governor steve bullock, started shutting down businesses a week after the

first cases cropped up. with only a million people spread out across a state three times the size of new york, many residents outside the main cities are already pretty isolated. >> our curve, our projected surge was effectively flat. >> reporter: dr. mark williams is chief physician officer for bozeman health and was involved in the state task force that evaluated stay-at-home directives and phased reopening. >> when you look at eastern montana, those counties have not seen a single case. so two or three weeks ago, when it became very obvious that the health care facilities in montana would be able to maintain or be able to take care of the surge, then it became much more logical and reasonable to talk about reopening businesses in a phased fashion, especially in those areas which hadn't seen a single case. >> reporter: is there a warning that should go along with that as well? >> we have to avoid that false sense of security. in 1918, montana was ravaged by

the spanish influenza. if we can reflect back on how similar epidemics have affected rural communities, then the story or the risk can become very clear. even if the likelihood of an outbreak is less, the access to health care resources is also less. >> reporter: but dr. williams admits that while saving lives is paramount, for many, so is saving livelihoods. >> just recognize that when people are wanting to reopen their business, they're doing it for very good reasons. if we can all get on the same page and try to understand where we each are situated, those conversations become much easier. it's a matter of honesty and transparency. >> reporter: wisdom that could be applied across the country, divided by the pandemic. for the pbs newshour, i'm stephanie sy in phoenix. >> woodruff: local newsrooms

>> woodruff: local newsrooms were a big winner this week when the pulitzer prizes were announced. it underscored the value of local reporting at a time en newsrooms continue to lose journalists and papers have been closed or gutted. a recent estimate found that since the pandemic began, more than 35,000 ne media employees of all kinds in the u.s. have been laid off, furloughed or faced pay cuts. jeffrey brown zeroed in on this with a pair of the winners. >> brown: in alaska, the" anchorage daily news" won the prestigious pulitzer for public service for a year-long investigation into sexual violence in the state and a two- tiered justice system that leaves rural communities at risk. the paper collaborated with the news organization, pro-publica. in louisville, kentucky, the" courier-journal" won the prize for breaking news reporting for its coverage of outgoing governor matt bevin's last- minute pardons of hundreds of people, including perpetrators

of violent crimes. just two among other examples of honors for local reporting this year, at a time when local news organizations around the country face huge economic challenges, and now more cuts amid the pandemic. joining us are joe sonka, political reporter at the "louisville courier-journal," and kyle hopkins, special projects editor at the "anchorage daily news." kyle, i want to start with you. your organization clearly put a lot of time and resources into this. what was the significance? why was this story so important? >> well, i think for us, it was a story that we've been meaning to tell for a long time. you know, these are stories that in some ways i feel like we should have done 10 or even 15 years ago. and we were looking for the right way to tell them and the right partner to do it with. and the thing that we most wanted to explore was alaska's high rate of sexual abuse and sexual assault, especially abuse of children.

and we felt like we couldn't really tell that story without telling people about what's happening with criminal justice in alaska and what's been just a decades long, generationold inequity when it comes to how justice and public safety is delivered. if you live in the city and how it's delivered, if you live and grow up in a village that's hard to reach, you know, off the road system and that you have to take a plane to get to. >> brown: and joe sonko, you had a very different situation is was breaking news, what made this an important story to pursue? >> well, people were not only outraged by the nature of some of the crimes that people were pardoned for, people were recently convicted of a very long, very long sentences for crimes of murder, child rape. but they were also outraged by the fact that none of these many of the prosecutors were not warned. many of the victims were not warned at all. this was a total surprise to them. and then also our report was able to find some of the

political connections that the families of those individuals had to matt bevin, one person who was convicted in a fatal home robbery, his brother and family had hosted a big fundraiser for matt bevin the summer before and raised over $20,000 forced to retire debt from his previous campaign. so i really drew outrage across the political spectrum. >> brown: you know, you're both doing this kind of work. has the landscape has shifted so much for local news, kyle? what is the situation where you are and how do you manage to continue to do this kind of work? >> well, i like to say that our newspaper, the "anchorage daily news," we've been through all the things that small newspapers around the country are experiencing. you know, we've been through it all. we are on it. our ownership has changed a couple times. we went bankrupt. we had to suive the bankruptcy. we almost didn't exist. you know, more recently during the pandemic, like lots of small newspapers, we got hit pretty hard by a loss of revenue.

and so a lot of reporters here and employees have had to take temporary pay cuts and see their hours reduced. >> brown: and what and what's the situation for you, joe? >> well, we've been i've been i haven't been to the newsroom in over two months now, we've been all working remotely. this is my office right here. but we're also our reporters are also on furlough now. i'll be on furlough next week and then next month i'll have another week of furlough. you know, we're the newspaper industry has been hit just as hard as other industries throughout the economy right now. and with the changing nature of the news media, the move away from advertising based revenue to subscription based revenue really makes subscriptions to local papers even more important now than it ever was in order to keep us doing the work that >> brown: you know, i we spoke to one of the other winners, luke broadwater of the "baltimore sun," and he told us that on sunday he took a pay cut. on monday, he won a pulitzer prize. that just shows the kind of weird, crazy times that you ran in. joe, it when people wonder now

about the value of local news, this kind of reporting. what's your response? >> well, i think with that, we showed the value of local news by how much how many resources to be devoted to this project and uncover things that might not have been known to taxpayers if we didn't have our whole team working on it. we had a few reporters working we put out dozens of stories in the following month and found out some really incredible things about some of the pardons. so that's the power of having local people on the ground who, you know, the situation and can uncover things and really shed light on what their government's doing. >> brown: and kyle, you're in a huge state. all kinds of resources. but i guess so a lot of those things can go on without much of a spotlight. >> that's true. i mean, there's you know, alaska is a resource rich state a there's not a lot of people, but there's a lot of money to be made here.

and what we think is that if there's no one, there's no one playing a watchdog role. you know, you can imagine who's going to get elected. you know where that money's going to come from. and then what they're going to do in turn for, you know, businesses that want to come here and make a dollar regardless of how it impacts the land in alaska. and the people in alaska. >> brown: kyle, you know, i mentioned that you did this in a partnership with pro-publica. i just wonder briefly if you think about the future. is that kind of partnership or what you see? >> we felt like this was a kind of a proof of concept for us because we knew that, you know, we didn't have much money. you know, we just we just don't and we don't expect to have much money in the future. and so how can we do work that we're proud of? but that takes a lot of time. and that's where we needed a partner who could help. you know, that my salary was paid for by propublica last year so that allowed me to spend all my time just on this one project. and so i think we're looking for more opportunities where we can

you know, we know we have stories to tell. we know there's good stories to be done in alaska. but we don't always have the resources and the band with to do them. so who can help us do that? and in this case, it was propublica which ce in and helped with editing, helped with research. you know, they have data experts and a small newsroom like ours doesn't have. and so i think there's a real hopeful future in those types of collaborations. >> brown: all right. well, congratulations to both of you. once again, kyle hopkins at the "anchorage daily news." joe sonko at the "louisville courier-journal." congratulations. >> thanks so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: now to the analysis of shields and brooks. that's syndicated columnist mark shields and "new york times" columnist david brooks. hello to both of you. let's startçó with the

administration, the department of justice asking a federal judge to throw out the case against michael flynn, the president's former national security advisor who had pleaded guilty to lying about his contacts with russian diplomats. we're going to see what the judge does, but right now the president is praising this. he's saying the f.b.i. is full of people acting in bad faith. mark, what do we make of this? >> judy, jeff sessions was essentially fired as attorney general for not being donald trump's in-house lawyer. donald trump said he always wanted roy come to be his lawyer. bill barr is living up to that job description. hard to believe bill barr would want his epitaph to be he was donald trump's roy cohn. general flynn who twice pleadedi

guilty spoke to the judge and to the court apologizing for lying to investigators, promising the grace of god to make things right, and here we are, he's walking free. and the villain in the piece is american law enforcement. that's the berated and condemned institution. there was no waterboarding, no third degree that i know of that has been alleged in the confession coming forward, but that's the impression that is left. >> woodruff: and, david, not only this, the president seems to be promising more to come. we're not sure what that's a reference to, but it certainly caught everybody's attention. >> yeah, there are a couple of things true here. the first is that flynn confessed, so he pleaded guilty. i take him at his word that he lied. the second thing is that the justice department has become a

hyperpartisan institution and we can't have faith in its judgments. the third thing, though, is that the f.b.i. might have screwedp here. bloomberg is a good journalist, has been making this argument several months now, and the documents that have come out seem tclear with lake's long-time argument which is that the original investigation into flynn by the f.b.i. did not reveal anything and they kept the investigation open, they at least considered the possibility they're keeping the investigation open not to convict him of something but to induce him to lying. so i don't know how to balance these two facts. i don't myself have the expertise to say whether the f.b.i. really screwed up the investigation, whether they were really trying to hound him audit out of the job, but it's at least a possibility, and the core problem here is we do have a set of authorities where we could completely trust on this, and, frankly, i have been trying to find news organizations who really give an expert opinion on the f.b.i.'s behavior, and i've

had trouble getting to the bottom of that, just to the journalistic outset. >> woodruff: mark, what do you make of these accusations from the f.b.i., these disclosures about what the agents were talking about before they went to interview michael flynn? >> i think, judy, what we have here, no question about it, is this occurred -- michael flynn's statement, calling and speaking with investigators kislyak of the russians, the day the 35 russian spice were banished from the united states by the obama administration, and the assurance was don't act, don't overreact, we'll get back to you, and this will be okay. and that's the story, and it's pretty damn clear that it was a condoning of russian

intervention in the 2016 election, it's a green light to russian further intervention and subversion of the 2020 election, and, you know, when the president of the united states calls the f.b.i. scum -- and the one charge i think that stands is the investigation of carter page, which was inappropriate, was wrong, but, you know, i just think this is right or healthy or in any way helpful to this country, and i think the president stands responsible. >> woodruff: and, at the same time, david, you do have democrats and you both refer to this saying the justice department has just become way too politicized in a way that's unacceptable for the country. >> well, this is a story of may and april and march of 2020, the

need for institutional structures in our govnment that we can trust and rely upon and, in some cases, that's just a weak response on testing and other things, but, in this case, it's the long-time erosion of authority of the justice department. the justice department has always been teetering on the brink, going back to maybe even robert kennedy, but in this administration, it's over the brink, and, so, even in a case where, you know, i can't believe i'm defending michael flynn but saying to kislyak, don't be alarmed, this will be okay, that seems to be representing trump's clear policies which is sympathetic to russia. so, to me, it's not necessarily convicting, but i have no authority as a citizen to go to to think, okay, these guys are on level because the justice department under president trump doesn't seem to be on the level. >> woodruff: so much to -- mark, go ahead. i want to ask you about something else. so go ahead.

>> on the justice department, i think under ed meese and other attorney generals general who were opened questions, we have been had attorneys general who operated honorably and i include robert kennedy in that. >> woodruff: david, i want to turn both of you to the president and the pandemic. it's clear in the last few days he talked repeatedly about we need to change the focus more to the economy, worried more about getting people back to work. today, he was asked about will some people be affected badly, yes, but we have to get our country open, and we have to get it open soon. is he making the right call here? >> i don't think so. there's a clear tradeoff between our safety and economy and if we're winning he would be

justified but we're not winning. the death rates are about 2,000 a day. it's been week after week -- week after week of this. the curve is flat but it's not going down. the death rate is terrible. people mod lic modeling things t people who will die. i don't see the evidence of that looking at the data, and neither do people who know more about this than me, the health experts. so trump seems tbe wildly premature in doing this and, frankly, the american people seem to be a little premature. over the last week, even as the health data continues to be terrible, people are loosening. the travel is up, gathering is up, and, so, i think just as fellow citizens, we've got to try to hang in there a little longer till we can get some sense -- a better sense of control, some sense of a downward slope which we do not

see now, especially when you take up the new york data. the rest of the country is seeing an upward slope. >> woodruff: mark, the president seemed determined to let these states do what they want as we know more than 30 states are loosening -- are opening up at different -- a different pace. but he does seem determined to let this run its course, to let them do what they think is right. >> yes, and the responsibility is with the improves for opening up, and the president can distance himself politically if there's an out. given the numbers today reported on unemployment which, if anything, were probably lower the percentage than really are at risk and suffering as a result of this tragedy, that the economy, which was the issue on which donald trump was going to run for reelection, is the only

hope for reelection which, quite frankly, his prospects seem less than two months ago. i think he is almost determined to will the economy to be recovering heading into the campaign and the election of the fall. i don't think there's any question about it, and he's trying to have it both ways that the governors are the ones making the decisions, and i think that's the political reality. i think it's that simple and that straightforward. >> woodruff: i want to ask both of you, only a little time left. david, were you going to say something? go ahead. >> quickly. i'm not sure the governors are having an effect. the american people shut down before the governors acted and the american people opened up before the governors acted. so a lot of this is on us. we're not following the governors' rules, it's our own society that we're running and we haveto to be more

self-disciplined. >> woodruff: quickly to both of you on this question of white house interference. you have the scientists at the department of health and human services saying he was removed because he wanted to work on vaccines earlier this year. tonight we just are reading an a.p. report on white house efforts to bury a c.d.c. recommendations on opening up. quickly, mark, and then you, david, is this something americans should worry about? >> we should, judy. i mean, it began with -- first we saw was lonel vindman, then ambassador sondland, anybody who faced their responsibility answered truthfully, testified openly, reaped retribution. we saw it with michael a atkins, the inspector general at intelligence, all of whom got the gate when they didn't do

what the president wanted. >> woodruff: david. tell the truth, and this administration is not telling the truth. telling the truth is key to pandemic policy. >> woodruff: david brooks, mark shields, staying safe. thank you both. >> woodruff: as the week nears an end, we again want to take a few minutes tonight to share the stories of just some of the extraordinary americans who have lost their lives in this devastating pandemic. philip kahn always carried his military photos with him so he could tell his story. an air force co-pilot in world war ii, kahn was in the battle of iwo jima and helped take aerial surveys of the damage wrought by the atomic bombs.

after the war, he was an electrical foreman on the construction of the world trade center. more devastating than the war, philip often said, was the spanish flu pandemic, which killed his twin brother in infancy. philip was 100 years old. lysa dawn robinson never went anywhere without a set of drumsticks. known to fans as "lady rhythm," the philadelphia-born drummer toured the world with soul singer billy paul, and played with many more artists, including pink. lysa was a go-to source for advice for her two sisters and nieces, who describe her as witty, charming, and a good listener. she was 55 years old. harold davis spent most of the past two decades mentoring chicago high schoolers, offering them paid opportunities to repair school auditoriums while keeping them out of harm's way.

direct and outspoken, harold exposed inequalities on his radio show "the butt naked truth," where he had a reputation for asking tough questions and holding local politicians to account. harold was 63 years old. new jersey's gerry genuino greeted every student who walked on his bus with a smile. funny, thoughtful, and humble, the 58-year-old was always lending a helping hand to a friend or stranger. last fall, he heroically pulled his bus over on the highway to help extinguish a truck fire. adored by his two daughters, gerry and his wife mary jane would have celebrated 25 years of marriage next month. for activist josepha eyre, her desire to help displaced refugees was largely inspired by her upbringing in nazi-occupied holland.

in 1989 josepha, or jossy, founded the women's bean project in denver, colorado to create long-term solutions for homeless women through work and counseling. over the years, she welcomed people in need into her own family. she was active and tenacious; an inspiration to her children and grandchildren. ssy was 89 years old. now to a different type of remembrance: 75 years ago today, nazi germany surrendered to the allies in europe, in a red schoolhouse in rheims, france. world war two would last three more brutal months in the pacific, but six years of horror and holocaust was then ended in europe. here's special correspondent malcolm brabant, with veterans in their twilight, as the globe faces a new and different challenge.

>> reporter: despite the covid 19 lockdown, they were determined to celebrate v.e. day in bracknell, 40 miles west of london, and honor 98 year old neighbor stanley booker. squadron leader booker, a navigator on a bomr, was shot down over france in 1944, betrayed to the nazis, tortured with medical experiments in the buchenwald concentration camp, and was in a german prisoner of war camp on this day 75 years ago. >> the germans had just gone and left us. they'd made a hole in the fence with an armoured vehicle and we were shuttered. they manned the watchtowers and we were shut in there and there was no mention of v.e. day. >> reporter: the squadron leader's heroism was supposed to be recognized with a low pass over his house by a spitfire, the great british wartime fighter plane. >> the heroes are those lads we left behind. we are the survivors.

we are the lucky ones. but to represent them i feel very honored. i just hope they don't have as much difficulty finding us as we used to have during the war when we used to fly our bombers home. >> reporter: booker lined up on the designated flight path, but the spitfire pilot strayed off course. no navigator on board, complained the old airman. joe cattini was also in germany 75 years ago, in the northern city of bremen. >> in germany on v.e. day we were still fighting. >> reporter: can you recall precisely what you were doing? >> we had a pocket of s.s., who wouldn't surrender. with the war over, as far as they were concerned it was death for them. we had to shell their barracks and eventually they did surrenr. >> reporter: cattini landed in normandy on d day in june 1944 and fought his way across europe. >> i am not a hero.

the heroes are the ones who died. they are the heroes. we were the lucky ones. >> reporter: what do you think your legacy is? >> we have had 75 years of peace without fighting in europe. >> reporter: this may seem like a strange question but do you miss your war? >> i was glad when it was finished. i wouldn't like to go through another war like that when you wake up in the morning and you don't know whether you will be able to go to sleep again that night. you may not be alive. >> reporter: the springboard for ultimate victory was the d day invasion of normandy 11 months earlier. at last year's 75th anniversary, medal of honor winner ray lambert summed up the achievement. >> there's no greater feeling for a soldier than to liberate a country. and when you see those people so grateful and get their homes back, and you drive the enemy out, that makes us all very proud that we were part of that. >> reporter: seven veterans accompanied president trump as

he laid a wreath to commemorate those who laid down their lives to defeat the evil of adolf hitler's third reich. and tonight on television in britain, singer katherine >> never give up, never despair. that was the message of v.e. day. many people laid down their lives in that terrible conflict. they fought so we could live in and tonight on television in britain, singer katherine jenkins triggered a wave of nostalgia duetting with wartime heroine vera lynn along to this classic number, "we'll meet again." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> those days, songs had meaning. >> it more or less nearly brings tears to my eyes when i hear it. >> reporter: health workers applauded squadron leader booker

as he resumed his covid 19 lockdown, ending a moment of respite in this new world war. for the pbs newshour, i'm malcolm brabant in bracknell. >> woodruff: in this time of social distancing, artists, athletes, musicians all over the country are trying to find new ways to channel their energies. william brangham brings us this portrait of one artist in california who's trying to help people who are sick, many with it's part of our ongoing arts and culture series, canvas. >> you know, this crisis that we're facing is really twofold: it's a health crisis, but it's also a crisis of isolation. my name is tucker nichols. i'm an artist based in san rafael, california. for anyone who's been very sick before, that-- the actual experience of being sick is

itself incredibly isolating." flowers for sick people" is a really simple project where i send flowers, paintings of flowers, to people who are ill right now, from their loved ones. i have a simple website," flowers for sick people," where you just send me the name and address of someone who is sick and i will make a small flower painting and send it off to them. and it's-- there's no messages. there's no-- it says who it's from, and who it's to. it's a totally free service. it just arrives in the mail, unannounced. right now, i'm still putting them all in envelopes and hand addressing them. but i may move to postcards if i can't keep up with the requests. increasingly, the requests that i'm getting are more and more

related to the virus, and the people who are sick and suffering from the virus, so it's really become this portrait of what people are going through, and how cut off they feel from the people who they're trying to take care of. i realize you can't really sen flowers to everyone who deserves them. so i started posting images of flower drawings on my website and on social media to-- as sort of tributes to different segments of society at large. flowers for the ventilator operators. flowers for the hospital janitors. flowers for the bare handed mail carrier. and then also ones that were also kind of about everyone's experience of being inside. flowers for the neighbor who sits in her window on patrol. flowers for elastic waistbands. flowers for the dishwasher. flowers for you if you are the dishwasher.

the flowers i've been posting are really an attempt for me to connect to other parts of the world; other people out there who are thinking the same thoughts i am. flowers for someone who left in an ambulance, but still no update. flowers for the kids who are realizing none of the grown ups know how this is going to play out. flowers for the frazzled woman at the post office directing the other customers to maintain their six foot perimeter's while trying to keep her place in line. just sort of say, hey we're all in this together, we're all having some common experiences even while we're so isolated. we're all experiencing that, we're all waking up and thinking, what do i? how do i do this? flowers for new york city. flowers for anyone in any hospital for any reason. flowers for your mother. flowers for anyone stuck at home without flowers today.

>> woodruff: one additional note: all the video for that story was filmed by tucker's daughter, nine-year-old ada nichols. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. thank you, please stay safe as you remember the mothers in your life this weekend, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> life isn't a straight line, and sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. fidelity is here to help you work through the unexpected, with financial planning and advice for today, and tomorrow. >> the william and flora hewlett foundation.

for more than 50 years, advancing ideas d supporting institutions to promote a better world. at www.hewlett.org. >> supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the world's most pressing problems-- skollfoundation.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org marling.

hello, everyone. welcome to amanpour & co. here's what's coming up. >> as the global economy hurdles toward the depression, a vaccine breaks out. finding th holy guardrail. we that he with dr. richard hatchett. then the arab doctors risk everything on the front lines. plus -- >> they have changed their definition of how politics matter and why government matters to focus overwhelmingly on economic policy. >> why quiet compromises made in the voting group. plus -- ♪