captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evendrg, i'm judy wf. on the newshour tonight, the covid conflict-- amid a mounting death toll, a whistleblower lays out u.s. missteps as the president breaks with scientists on re-opening schools and offers support to protests againstwn locksh then, lead in a crisis-- rto former white house chiefs of staff from both s offer lessons learned from their experiences during times of turmoil. pluscovid behind bars-- the pandemic exposes healthcare shortcomings of the prison system, now a breeding ground for contagion. all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

>> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> life isn't a straight line, and sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. fidelity is here to help you work through the unexpected, with financial planning and advice for today, and tomorrow. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace a security.

at carnegie.org. th >> and witongoing support of these institutions: and individuals. >> this program pos made ible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the official, global death toll in the covid- pandec has reached that includes 85,000 in the united states. the new numbers were posted as a federal vaccine expert laid blame at the white houseoor. white house correspondent yamiche alcindor begins, with this report.

>> the subcommittee on health will now come to order. >> reporter: today on capitol hill, a top scientist and whistleblower... >> top scientist andy on capitol whistle blower. >> some scientists raig d early warngnals that were overlooked. pages of our pandemic playbook were ignored. >> alcindor: dr. rick bright is a government expert on viruses who was working to combat covid- 19. he alleges that federal officials withheld information in the early months of the coronavirus outbreak. >> we did not forewarn people, we did not train pt ple, we did ucate them on social distancing and wearing a mask as we should have in january and february. all of those forewarnings, all of those educational opportunities for thamerican public could have an impact on further slowing this outbreak and saving more lives. >> alcindor: bright says he raised concerns about an unproven coronavirus treatment, hydroxychloroquine, touted by president trump. he also claims, in retaliation, he was pushed out his job as the director of the biomedical

advanced research and development authority, or" barda." in april, bright filed a it says his "efforts to. prioritize science and safety over political expediency...ra led those in the administration who wished to continue to push this false narrative." last week, the federal office of special counsel determinedal bright's remas retaliatory. it saihe should be reinstated as barda's director during the investigation. but the bulk of bright's he frames, as the white house's sluggish response to the pandemic. he described warnings from the c.e.o. of a major surgical mask manufacturer, mike bowen. i l never forget the emails indicating that we are-- our mask supply, our n-95 mask supply was completely decimated. and he said that "we're in deep ( bleep )." the world is. and we need toct.ed and i puhat forward to the highest levels i could in h.h.s.

got no rponse. >> alcindor: committee democrats also accused the white house of putting politi before science. >> dr. bright has filed one of the most specific antroubling whistleblower complaints i've ever seen. he was the right person, with the right judgment at the right time. he was not only ignored, he was fired for being right. we can't have a system where the government fires those who get it right and rewards those who get it completely wrong. >> alcindo but republicans questioned whether bright himself acted properly. they challenged his motives fo testifying. >> this hearing is not about a whistleblower complaint. it's about undermining the administration during a national and global crisis. you chose not to elevate your concerns to the office of the inspector general but instead kept selective screenshots that didn't include full context. >> alcindor: meanwhile at the whithouse, health and human

services secrery alex azar echoed critiques of bright's record-- and defended president trump's. >> everything he's complaining about was achieved. in. bright was part of a team and was simply swhat everybody else at the white house and at h.h.s. was saying. not one t of difference. d on hydroxychloroquine, dr. bright literally signed the application for an f.d.a. authorization of it. >> alcindor: president trumpsm sed bright as bitter. >> he looks like an angry disgruntled employeeho frankly cording to some people didn't think he did a good job. >> alcindor: the back rth over bright came amid the ongoing debate about when, and how, to re-open the economy. new labor department figures showed almost three mianion more amerfiled unemployment claims last week. that brings total claims since the pandemic began to more than 36 million. the anxiety is palpable across the country. today, protestors in lansing, michigan again demanded a re- opening.

in neighboring wisconsin on wednesday, democratic governor tony evers' stay at home order extension was overruled by a conservative-majority supreme last night, ba quickly filled with patrons not wearing facial coverings against health official's guidance. one owner, chad arnt, said athi his port wton bar, employees were desperate to return to work. >> after my employees haven't been paid in two months, i had to look out for them and their families and i had to look ofo r my business. >> alcindor: some cities in wisconsin, including milwaukee and madison, quickly imposed their own restrictions after the court ruling. >> president trump has encouraged an end to restrictions and today he traveled again, this time to allentown, pennsyl there, during a tiewfer a stribution center that makes personal protective equipment, he ignored his own c.d.c.gu ance and did not wear a protective mask. for the pbs newshour, i'm yamiche alcindor. >> woodruff: also today, the centers for disease control and prevention posted six pages of

guidance for reopening schools, businesses, and other groups. the documents had initially been shelved by the white house. another 57 pages of more-extensive guidelines have yet to be released. tensions between hopes for a recovery and fears of new outbreaks made for another choppy day on wall street. but,n the end, the market ma up some lost ground. the dow jones industrial averag3 gain points to close at 23,625. the nasdaq rose 80 points, and, the s&p 500 added 32 points. u.s. senator richard burr stepped aside as chair of the senate intelligence committee, overllegations of insider trading linked to the pandemic. the north carolina republicanun sold large a of stock just before the fincial markets crashed in february. burr spoke briefly today, outside his senate office, after federal agents seid his phone on wednesday.

>> this is a distraction to thee hard work of t committee and the members and i think the a curity of the country is too important to havstraction. >> woodruff: burr says his stock transactions were basely on publicly available inrmation. the senate voted today to re- instate surveillanceherovisions ofaw used in terrorism investigations. parts of the feign intelligence surveillance act, o fisa, expired in marse. thte added new civil liberties protections and sent it back to the house for a final vote.cr house des are moving ahead with plans to vote tomorrow on a new pandemic relief bill. it totals $3 trillion, for aid to state and local governments an.more payments to america but this time, republicans and democrats are divided, as sete majority leader mitch mcconnell and house spear nancy pelosi made clear today.re >> it stils like the speaker of the house pasted together random ideas from her

most liberal members and slapped the word "coronavirus" on top of ct. an unserious prorom an unserious house majority that has spent months dealing itself out of the crisis. >> we're putting our offer on the table. we're open to negotiation, and so when people say "partisan", it's like, it wasn't partisandi when theit. did you say that? s and so now we'ing here's our offer, let's see where you are. >> woodruff: the senate is not expected to consider the bill unl after memorial day. in the philippines, a powerful typhoon stru the eastern parts of the countrythe covid-19 pandemic rages. heavy rain and winds near 100 miles an hour forced tens of thousands of people to evacuate. crowded shelters, despite the lack of social distancing, in order to escape heavy rain and

winds near 100 miles an hour. ths swearing in of israeew the swearing-in of israel's new government was delayed today, over infighting for cabinet positions. instead, prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his former rival benny gantz announced the ceremony will take place on sunday. they agreed to a power-sharing deal to avoia fourth election in the last year and a half. and, back in this country, a federal appeals urt revived a lawst charging that president trump is still profiting from his washington, d.c. hotel, while in offe. the district of columbia and the state of maryland have argued is violating the constitution. trump's personal attorney said they will appeal to the u.s. preme court. still to come on the newshour: two former white house chiefs of staff offer lessons learned from times of turmoil. colleges across the country grapple with how to continue a classes duriandemic. the coronavirus exposes the healthcare shortcoming the u.s. prison system.

and much more. >> woodruff: governing in a crisis like the current pandic can define a presidency. we were interested to ask whether history offers any guide to the present? >> the predent of the united states. >> woodruff: on monday, surrounded by aides in masks, and a ononday, surrounded by aides in masksand as the u.s. death toll from covid-19 passed 80,000, president donald trump declaredictory in the battle to ramp up widespread testing. >> in every generation, through every challenge and hardship and danger, america has rin to the task. we have met the moment and we have prevailed. >> woodruff: for many that

echoed another moment, in 2003, when president george w. bush spe two months after launching the war in iraq. >>ajor combat operations have ended. in the battle of iraq, the united states and our alliesre haveiled. >> woodruff: that conflict would rage on for nearly nine more years, ultimately claiming more than 4400 american l hundreds lives', and fail to produce the alleged weapons of mass destructn. crises early in each of his terms: the attacks of septber 11, 2001 came just eight months into his presidency and killed hurricane katrina wans. orleans in the summer of 2005, killing over 1800 americans and displacing hundreds of thousands

more. and en, in 2008, the housing bubble burst. the fallout quickly became president barack obama's problem, as financiamarkets seized up. jor u.s. iustries like automakers teetered on the brink of collapse, and millions of americs lost their jobs. o act will only deepen this crisis as well as the pain felt by millions of americans. >> woodruff: 2010's deepwater horizon oil spill in the gulf of mexico was the largest in history. mn>> the united states conin the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. >> woodruff: two years later came the attacks on a u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya. and at home, when a gunmandr

killed 20 chen and six adults at sandy hook elementary school. and in 2014, intense protests erupted over the police killing of michael brown in ferguson, missouri. joining us now are two key figures previous presides have relied upon during times of national emergency.se andrew cared as chief of staff to president george w. bush andelped lead the administration's response after 9/11. he is now chair of the natiol endowment for democracy, a non- profit organization in washington. and former chicago mayor rahm obama's first chietaff, att the height of the great recession.om weto both of you. it's so good to see you. let me ask you, first, is there really any way to prepare for a crisis like this one, a pandemic? rahm emanuel, i mean, you didn't face anything quite like this, did you? >> well, not like this, but we faced multi-- the difference is we faced aisis of a great.

recession, two of the lonst wars in american history, and auto industry and a manufacturg base that was ing to collapse, and a financial sector that had totallcontracted. ro it was a multiple series of dominoes that we crises across the board, rather than one publicealth crisis instigating and causing an economic cracks of unseen proportions, far greater, obviously, than what we faced on the eve of 2009. >> woodruff: well, you're right. it was a lot. and andrew card, you dealt with a lot-- >> i used to be 6'2" and 250 pounds. >> woodruff: go ahead, andy. ealevery president has to d with something that they didn't want to have to deal with. george w. sh had a number challenges. obviously, 9/11 was the biggest recession that started under his watch. but this is kind ofi a unque challenge for the united states, didn't tell us that it could

happen. george w. bush gave a speech at the in additio united nations ir of 2005 where we called for the world to be prepared for a pandemic. i don't know when it's going to come, but it's going to come.e and thenollowed up with a major speech in november-- it was actually novemb 1, 2005, where he challenged america to get ready to deal with a pandemic. and he said, "we don't have one going on now, but weave to be prepared for doing it." he called for congress to appropriat$7.1 billion to get ready for a pandemic. he said, "you don't know when it's going to hit, b's likely to hit." and that was a wonderful road map to deal with the challenges we have today. >> woodruff: and given that, rahm emanuel, what has thisid prt done right, and what has he done wrong? >> well, look, i do think thardt the they put out about what are the metrics for kind o startingen up society and the economy were the right nktrics. i i don't thhat you would do the day you put them out, put out a tweet saying, "liberate,

michigan, liberate minnesota and virginia," and undermine the very premises therein i one of the things the president should be doing, one is this should be a time where you actually aspire towards malice towards none, charity towas all, rather than the inverse, which is malice towards all and charity toward none. i don't think he's brought the country united. i actually think one of the great silver linings here is the united states has discovered how much we actually all have our sense ocommunity and neighbor. and a lot of times we talk abouv our isions. i actually would say the highlight here is the unity and togetherness that's there, and the president should aspire towards thh. the secondg is rather than than not just dividing, i think the biggest losggs and the t problem was rather thaev- what y pandemic, what every crisis shoiz-- deal with it fast and furious. we have been slow and sloppy. foaz first nine weeks were a crucial nine weeks.

wather than denying what going to be a serious problem, rather than deferng, ignoring, even with intelligence and public health warnings, that nine weeks was a costly nine weeks. >> woodruff: andy, what about these points, when it comes to building community, and frankly, when it comes to speed this administration could have done lot better?>> well, the presidea good job of calling us all to attention. we came to attention. i think it was a lile bit tardy. and i don't fault the president, because i actually think he was on it pretty quickly by stopping meople from coming in fro china. but i think the rest of the administration maybe wasn't really sounding the ala the way they should have, because it was easy to anticipate that this was likely to happen. and i know solieve that, but i think too many people in the white house maybe weren't heeding the call to action that was coming from c.d.c. and n.i.h. >> woodruff: in a situation like, that rahm, how much of it is the responsibility of the man at t top, the president, and how much of it can be laid on

are work are for them?eo >> i slightly disagree with andy. the intelligence agencies and h.h.s. were giving the warning to the white house. there's a reason harry s.ma tru is famous for, "the buck stops herement. nobody at the third floor health and human services can call together entire government with a sense of urgency like the oval office. andy and i know, when you're the the phone and sahed you pick up president wants," people get focused and real serious. if people say the under secretary of health and human services wants, "leome put yu on hold. i'll get back to you on tuesday." it's a real difference. ght i'm sorry, the first ei weeks when the president said it will disappear-- i'm not trying to make a prli pont-- when it comes to pandemic or crisis, andy and i bow th knoat you do in the first nine weeks or the first eight weeks, ohe first six weeks, is crucial, and the slow and sloppy starttls cos for lives and the ability of america to move forward fast. and that has been very costly to

the united states. and the prewsidents that. >> woodruff: what about that, andrew card? and i understand that.wn that. but i also feel that maybe the other people the white house house-- i'm not talking about the agencies. i know the intelligencewa communitsounding an alarm. but i think too many people maybe at the white house wee not saying that this was a serious thing. peter navarro, evidently, knew it. i'm not sure how often he was saying it inside the white house.us >> woodruff: iwant to finally come back to both of you on this point rahm toched on earlier, and that is the role of the president in inspiringhe country, bringing the country together. when you think back to whether f.d.r.n world war ii or ronald reagan after the "challenger" disaster, rahm emanuel, what criteria should we use in judging a president in that gard at a moment like this? >> well, it's parent of the-- it's part of the presidential responsibility to give the country. office a voice to the and i do think we're united and

ready to move forward, and hema coulhal that resources. the president spoke for all of us-- prehedent bush-- on ashes of 9/11 at the world trade center whn he sai "they will hear our voices." president clintonn oklahoma, when we saw the first domestic terrorism, at the ceremony he deid, "we will be by your si as many tomorrows as it takes." president obama in south carolina spoke, when he sang "amazing grace" he touch a chord of our humanity. given the sense of unity thatre, really exists, that the president could actually take it to another level, and i think the reason governors are doing so well is because they see somebody that's trying britong s ther and move forward. and, remember, president kennedy once said, "tn gov sto choose between bad and worse." and the president inhis case, in my view, is squandering a ngunique opportunity to brthe company together with a singularity of both spirit and mission.

and i think that's i think, is esential for the president. and i think he's actually falling short, which is why the publ judging himhis way. >> woodruff: andrew card, finally what, about president trump on this question of inspiration? >> well, he has not been inspirational. he does have a tendency to listen more t rosy scenarios than the reality that-- you ow, america is strong. the people are reacting. governors and individls are making a big difference to help, you know, bring this curve down so tha it doesn't overwhelm our healthcare system and pay attention to what the scientists self-distance and ery to careful. but president bush was right wh he most cently sai "a pandemic doesn't know a republican or ademocrat. it's there for everybody." this is not a war against a yone. this ittle against a disease that is allan-consuming, we've got to be all in it together. so don't divide, bring together. we with get through this, but he to do it together.

and i wish the president, the current president, wooffer that invitation more so that we could all say, "this is our battle. we're all in it together." t woodruff: rahm emanuel, andrew caro people who have been there at the white hou isen moments of crisis. we thank you both. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: colleges and universities across the country are wrestling with how and when to reopen for classes in the toll. many are planninring students and faculty back to campus for classes. but not all schools believe it't wise for stuto return and some may include a mix of online learning. the california state university system, the largest four-year public university in the country, announced it plans to offer primarily online, remote classes this fall, with few exceptions

timothy white ishe chancellor and he joins me now. talking with us. so, for your, what, almost 500,000 students and 50,000 faculty and staff, what is this fall going to look like for em? >> well, judy, nice to join you. and, of course, the health and well-being of our students and the communihere our 23 and also campuses are located across the state of california-- it's m almost 80les from the northeastern-most campus in humboldt to san diego state in the south. but we think it's in our bestte st for our students, allowing them to make progress chwards their degree, whs so vitally important for them individually, and for the state of californi i but also doi in the covid-19 era that will, sadly, persist over the next acdemic year. and so this is precisely the moment for students to lean inta their reon, and we want to create as many options for as

many students as is humanly possible. that's why we decided to, in the fall, to prepared to be as 100% virtual as yo can be. flower some courses you could never do, some of the laboratory courses or hands-on experiments engineering, architecture, agriculture, things of that nature. but we want to be prepared for that, the worst-case snawr quo, so that hopefully things wil better ime parts of the state, and we can actually do a little bit more in person. >> woodruff: so there will be labs, and you mentioned say for architecture. i'm curious to know what percentage of our classes before now were being taught online? o>> we were about 10f our courses online before. and when we pivoted two months ago in march to be online to finish out this academic term here in the spring of 2020, we

converted 72,000 courses from in-person to online in theco se of about a week and a half. quite a monumtal undertaking our faculty and by our students and staff. >> woodruff: that's what i meanted to ask you. hohow much of your faculty has d experience with this because an is a c. >> it is a change. and that's reason we're announcing now so our faculty over the summer moks can prepare-- they're brilliant when it comes to their content area, whether in biochemistry or physics orhatever the case may be-- but some have experiencec with tehnology, virtual technology, assisted learning, and others have not. they've been more of a traditional faculty meer over e years. we're actually putting in a summernstitute across e system where the fact cult come in-- virtually co in-- for an intensive immersive experience to learn how to use all this amazing new technology that's veloping on a daily basis to create that same vibrant,

engaged learning experience independent fall in the virtual spe, rather than in the physical space. >> woodruff: so with most people then being from home, is your tuition going to go down? ce costs going to go down? >> no, theost of delivery through virtual technology actually increases with the purchasing of hardware, software, firmwear, the training of faculty. and tuition, of course, only pays a portion of what it costsc to educate a student. the the other part comes froml the state of cornia. we're clear on keeping our constant, becauseour costs to summit delivering the educationo h a virtual means remains. >> woodruff: but how do you make the case to yur udents, though, that an online education is ev beryit as valuable as an in-person education? >> well, you know, that's the adaptation to the moment of this

covid era. sure that our students-- ande i'll tell you, it will be diffent in the fall, but it elect very, very good. and not only the faculty teaching but als ro veryobust virtual academic support and studenn support. soe virtual space, it will be as robust as we humanly can. we will have on campus lents, for example, capstone for seniors that are graduating. buinstead ofaving 20 students in a lab there, will be something like five students in a lab. hey'll be physically distanced and in between use of the instrumentitation, there will cleaning of the instrumentitation, and people will have on personal protective gear. so we belie very strongly it's time for deour sts-- new ones and continuing-- to lean in and to get that all-important degree because that can never be taken away from them. and at any given moment in time, if you have a college draerk

your unemployment rate is abouta halfthe rest of the population is, and income is did billion 1 milurion over yo lifetime. it's not a time to stop even though there are some inconveniences.it's a way to add keep moving forward. >>atoodruff: you've said you are open, though, to reinstating classes you get different news. what experts are you listening to for that kind of information? >> we're using science, following the data. we'resi ung international epidemiologists, and also local epidemiologists here in the state of california. easeave infectious dis practitioners that are advising us. local public health officials as well as state public health officials. and so since the health and well-being is at the top of the list, it's going to be that advice, that forecasting that guides us through this. and, quite frankly, it's one of to do what 're doing.ave decided >> woodruff: chancellor timothy white, capitol hill state university system, thank

you very much. >> thank you, judy, bye-bye. >> woodruff: covid-1is swping through the country' jails and prisons. they have proven to be a brding ground for contagio with tight quarters that don't allow room for social distancing, shortages of cleang supplies and lack of otective gear like masks. some prison systems and jails early to free up space--s say it is too little, too late. criminal justice reform with this special series, "searching for justice," on our website, in a moment, william brawiham will tal the former medical director of new york's prisons, but first, yariche alcindors us some voices from prisoners and their families. a

indor: there have been dozens cases of covid-19 inside the district of columbia jail. >> he tells me that people catch it like it's water. >> alcindor: the situation became so dire that, in april, a federal judge ordered an emergency overhaul of the jail's health measures. cykeithia staley's partner, william cox, is being held in the c. jail on a weapons possession charge. >> people have corona. instead of them sending people home or sending them to a doctor, all theyoing is quarantine people in the cell for a long period of time. and that's not safe because thei cells ary. people have died from it on the heme unit, same floors tha on. he feels like it's easy for him to get it. >> alcindor: right now, more sitting behind barmericans are s ronavirus outbreak deepens. many prison systve ended in-person visits for loved ones. s say there's little the can do to avoid catching the virus. brian asey is serving a life sentence for kidnapping and rape

at san quentin state prison. he now directs a media outlet there run by inmates. >> it's not really built for six feetistance, because it's to packed. when they let us out to eat s dinner, ll have to stand in a line to get our food, there's no way we can keep the six feet. if you have symptoms or anything, it's like thish you because they put you in the hole to quarantine you away from everybody. soef a person is sick, they gonna try and get away from them because nobody wants to go in the hole. if something happens, there's nothing they can do because it's too crowded in he. >> alcindor: california's prison of vacant space to keep inmates six feet apart. >> you may start the call no >> alcindor: one inmate, who preferred not to use his full name, described the conditions inside the missouri prison where he's serving time for murder. >> we have masks, they just gavi us som they call a mask. the staff are not required to wear masks at this time.tr

we keeng to reason with them. we need the staff to wear it, because they're the only ones who can bring it in here. we don't for our cells.emicals if y can afford ajax, the only thing you can clean your cell with is ajax. my maiconcern is the ventilation system, because they don't have no air blowing out. if i cough in my cell, and if there's germs in it, it can go to the next cell or whatever, we're all hooked up togeer. if one person gets it we all got it. >> alcindor: cammie maturin runs a nonprofit that works with incarcerated people in louisiana inuding her fiancee, sirvoris sutton, who is serving a life sentence for second-degree rerder. >> he has been tor, this is his 29th year. i believe that he had called the coronavirus back in march bes,use he had all the sympt he had t sinus, the cough, the congestion, he had fever, he had

he couldn't smell, couldn't >> alcindor: she worries prisons authorities are resigned to covid deaths. >> when u hear that they've get a will and testament fromou your loved one, that is that that's knocks the wind out of you. because i did receive a will via email, s people.ouple of other >> alcindo meanwhile, inmates and their family members can do little but wait, and hope the virus doesn't find them behind for the pbs newshom >> brangham: to help us better understand how and why this virus is hitting prisons so hard in particular, i'm joined by dr. homer venters. he is the former chief medical officer of the new york city jail system and author of "life and death in rikers island" dr. venters, thank you very much for being here. we heard a lot of concerns in that taped piece by yamiche

alcind about conditions insid the prison. we heard there are a lot of outbreaks in there. this may sem very obvious you, but can you just tell us a little bit more about why jails and prisons are such great vehiclesor spregdz the virus? >> certainly. and thank you for having me, and focusingn this important topic. jails and prisons and ice detention centersthey're really created, physically, in a manner that promosz the spread of communicable disease, and covid-19 we know is very easily spread from one erson to another. and so the close contact that people are in when they're tained, when they're in housing areas, other parts of these facilities, r promotes the spread between both the people who are detained and staff. but two other very importa aspects arthat the way they're run, these facilities, the way there's a high tolerce for squalor, for fillingth filhere e idea for infection control is etithetical of what you

inside these places with trash and garbage and lack of atntion to keeping the places clean. the operational standards in these places reallpromote three of this disease. and finally, because we've kept all of our evidence-based heasth ctures and organizations outside of these walls for decades, places like the c.d.c., statements of health, c.m.s., and the joint commission, things that help us have evidence-based practices in the community, when it comes to healthllywol practices and transparency behind bars. and so we find that implementinv ence-based practices in an emergency like this is very hard to do when we haven't tried to do that before the emergency started. >> knowing who is sick and who is not inside the prison walls is, obviously, enormously important. that comes back to testing. what can you tell us about the landscape of testing? is it being done? is it being done enough in jails and prisons around country? >> no, it is certainly not being

done enough. there are places that still have poores of people reing they are short of breath, or even people who have objective fev that are not being tested so there is not enough testing. but your pint is a really critical one which is these places already have broken systems for peoe who ar sick to access any kind of health service, something that's called "sick call" in most ofhese place where's somebody writes down on a piece of paper-- "my std hurts, my head hurts." many places iga invess those complaints of medical oblems go unanswered. that's the baseline. anyou put in covid-19 where all of a sudden scores of people in these places have new health problems. and there are broken systems at certainly the lackesting, though, is an important part of this. instance, cases among staff going up, up, up, up, up, b you see no testing or no positive cases among detained people, you have to wonder

what's goingn. it's probably not that nobody who is detained acally has the virus. >> we have certainly seen certain jails and prison facilities releasing prisoners to try to free up more space space. we saw donald trump's former caem manager, paul manafort, released because he's an older person. how important is rsi prisoners to free up space? >> it's bee ued in many areas but not enough. allows us to get some of the most vulnerable people out of the setting, people at high risk of dyng if they contract covid-19. it's a critical tool, as you mentioned, because it helps usge mahe outbreak inside for everybody who is there. we can spread pople out,ep people in appropriate housing areas and a safer distance from her. o but it's also a critical tool because it helps us prelovent l hospital systems from

being overwhelmed. when the virus runs like wildfire through these facilities, just in the space of a day or two, it can overwhe a local hospital, and particularly for rural counties, where we have fewer and fewer hospitals because of hospital closures, but we have lots and lots of county jails, state and feeral prisons, and ice detention centers. when this virus takes hod i crowded facilities it can completely overwhelm the shoe ital that might be serving one or two counties in want space of a day or two. >> all right, dr. homer venters, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you so much. >> woodruff: oe again, the hemorrhaging of american jobs was in the millions last week. the official unemployment rate is likely to spike to 20% by june, if that is not already the case unofficially. and federal reserve chair jay

powell warns we could be facing a prolonged recession that could damage growth for years to come. everyone wants to re-start the economy. the question is how. paul solman gets the views oabe prize-winning economist as part of our series, "making sense." >> right now, this week, there is a choice about getting some more activity going versus um protecting lives. >> reporter: paul romer, who won a nobel prize in 2018 for his rk on technology and economic growth. these days he's focused on howvo to an economic depression. >> really, the only way to getck o a healthy economy is to stop the death and make people feel safe.te >> rep and ending the lockdowns won't do that, he gys. >> we'reng to have a kind of a seesaw pattern, i think, of trying to open up, realize that we hen't done anything to protect against the spread of the virus and then pulling back. and what we're going to just have to do is find a sustainablo

waontain this virus. >> reporter: that way, he's been arguing, is mass testing-- everyone in the u.s., every two weeks. >> if you don't know who's infectious, the only way to ck down and isolate the people who are infectious is to lock wn everybody. i think if we just test everybody and isolate the people who are infectio, we can easily suppress it and we can do it without, you know, causing a depression. >> reporter: but how can we do that, given the well-known shortages of test supplies-- personal protective equipment, laboratory capacity? >> each additionalt frees up about eight or nine people who can go back to work. what's the value of the work the eight or nine people can do. man! the test is really cheap compared to what the people can do. can't get a lot of them right we now. i'm okay with that. let's just get as many as we can right now and start to get some >> reporter: economics is

fundamentally about costs versus benefits, so all this testing mucosts how much versus hois dded to the economy when the nine people that you were talking about go back to work. >> if we can get the cost of a teof down to $10, so one uni testing per day will cost us about 3600er year. n if that frees e people then that ans a median income of say $50,000. nine times 50,000 would be $450,000 dollars.nd it's like a d fold increase on your on your investment. there aren't very many investments where you get a hundred x return, pretty much guaranteed. >> reporter: the latest relief bill did include $25 billion for testing. so is $25 billion enough? >> no. we need to commit about a hundred billion a year to expenditures on testing. that's enough to get us 23 million tests per day, or test

everybody every 14 days in the united states. the 25 billion is enough to get going, it'll give us some, some demonstration projects. i think we should be testing and reopen, you know, for tv, major league baseball, i think we should be testing everybody in nursing homes, i think we should be testing frequently everybody who's a health care provider. the country for not having had the tests? bygones are bygone i think it's a hbl to worry about, you know, who do we blame, who are we go punish. or to be thinking about, oh, ouuld have, could have, shld have. however, fault the food and drug administration. >> the f.d.a. application was 28 pages long. >> reporter: miles o's rece frontline documentary describethe challenges faced by a university of washington researcher in the early days of the pandemic, when he raced to get a new test appro >> one of the things is they needed a document fed ex-ed across the country before they could look at thdocument. >> you couldn't electronically

transmit it? >> i could electronically transmit it, but they couldn't look at it until it waex- ed. >> the f.d.a. told me it did review greninger's application but it was iomplete. they also said they were balancing thneed for tests with concerns about accuracy. >> i uerstand why they have to be very careful. but they're making people who are innovating, finding better t ways to tests, jump through these extraordinary hoops. and it's taking months tjust get simple things done. >> reporter: case in point, says romer: the saliva test approved last week. >> you just spit in a tube, much better than those, those swabs, the f.d.a. to say, okay, well, somebody can spit in the tube without being physically present in front of a health care professional who watches them while they do it. and i mean if it takes a month we're never going to get to the faster, cheaper, better tests that we need. >> reporter: what about people who've gten the blood test that shows that they have

antibodies so they must have had the virus?ok are they then ? is that a test that will allow people to just go back into the >> reporter: so you can't restart an economy with just the five percent who've got antibodies. you've got to let the virus run throh the community and get 60, 70% with, with antibodies. but it's a horrific path to get there, because a million people and it'll take a year for that. kind of process to work through the whole economy. >> reporter: what's your biggest fear right now economicall >> the biggest risk we face is that the economic turmoil is going to lead to political turmoil.an weebuild. we can recover income. but if we damage our institutions of rule of law, democracy, basic freedoms, that can take a lot longer to rebuild. >> reporter: are we moving towards the kind of investment you think we have to make? >> im actually very confiden that it's going to happen because there are no good

alternatives. we're losing 500 billion a month. it's eventually going to dawn on people that we can't afford to keep doing that. billion a year is really pretty cheap. r >>eporter: in fact, romer is sure enough that testing will soon be everywhere, he offered to put his money where his heart is: $500 of it. >> i'm so confident that testing will be the way out of this crisis that i'll bet you that in six months we'll be doing 20 million tests a day in united states. >> reporter: so i'm betting against you now that wot going to hit 20 million a x y, tests, in nths. and i pay your charity if you win and you pay my charity. >> tt's a deal. >> reporter: i'll take that bet. >> okay. have me back and we'll see how it goes. >> reporter: for the pbs newshour, the ever-sken,ical paul solow with some skin in the game.

>> woodruff: that brings us to ask us, where we take youron questionhe pandemic to experts to help make sense of these tough times. we get your questions from our website, twitter, instagraand facebook. for the record, facebook is a funder of the newshour. amna nawaz has more. >> nawaz: thanks, judy, and thanks to all of you for sending your questions. now, parents and grandparents are dealing with even more responsibilities these days, taking on new roles as teachers and counselors. in addition to caregivers, a lot of you sent us questions about parenting in the pandemic to answer them, we're joined by dr. adolescent psychiatrist. she's also the former president of the georgia council on childt and adolessychiatry, and she joins us now from atlanta. dr. vinson, welcome to the newshour. thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me.

>> nawaz: so let's jump right into the questions now. roour very first one comes anne stringer. she's a grandmother from may's landin new jersey. she reached out to on facebook. and this is ann's question. she says, "ieel anxious and closed off with my adult girls back home. also, my son is ovwhelmed with his three kids. any tips for our multi- nerational family?" dr. vinson, what advice can you ve? >> and so the advice that you have is going to be similar to the advice giving everyone right now is to cus on the things that you have control over and that you c change. so we can't change the fact that people a sort of cooped up, ofat your family have a lo extra responsibilities right now. but we can still be intentional about making connections with people a talking and interacting in whatever ways we most sense for us. and so there may be things that you want to do to help like frantically, doing face based on ways to be active and involving

your grandchildren's lives. another time with them in a positive way. >> nawaz: those are all great tips. let's go to our next question now comes from julie gerien. she also reached out on facebook and julie sent us this video. >>toome parents are beginnin let their kids socialize. how can i keep my kids safe and still let them connect withso friends in p i'm making sure that my kids wash their hands and i'm tmonitoring their proximi others. but other parents may not be.nc >> nawaz: dr. t, how do you do that? how do you keep your own kids safe and can you to let them safely sociakize with other ? >> so like anything else, paen comes tnting, there's sort of a risk benit analysis that you do ght and your child is learning to drive. you're afraid of letting it do that. but, you know, it's sort of part of what they neeto do in order to progress. and so now we're in post-covid world or covid world where pt of parenting is thinkingbout these things. and so this way we're going to have your kids go over for a party at someone's house.

may ask questions about, are the parents going to be there? what's the level of supervision? those sorts of things. we get more information so that you can make a decision as a parent about this is se enough for me to feel comfortable with them going. so under these conditions, i think it's completely fine for me to ask questions about whether their friend has been sheltering in place. what precautions they have taken that people are going to be wearing masks when they're getting together. and those are all pieces of information you have a right to know. and using that information and then make a decision about whether it makes sense to move what with that in person plea no be really helpful for children from a rural health standpointo to be ablelk and interact with their friends. r d so there are ways that we can make this sa everybody's wearing masks, if we're asking tse questions and ose sorts of things, the risk benefit analysis of parentsog, we all knoell. >> nawaz: let's get to another question now. this is from l.h. philip. she works in education in arkansas.

she submitted this question to us on facebook. she writes, "we were titust into thistion with little preparation. what will we do with students who are poorly prepared?" it's such a good question.inson, what can you say to l.h. that? >> and what i say to l. is this transition back is goi to be a challenge for teachers, for administrators, for parents, and especially for the children. and i do think there are ways that we're goingo see preexisting gaps in education that get bigger as a result of people being home for so long. and so the next question is, well, what do we do?and i thinke now for us to have conversationh withl districts, with administrators, with state decision makers around the kinds of supports that we need to adequately support needs both from an academic standpoint and an emotional standpoint when they go back to school to give them a better chance at this being a successful transition. >> nawaz: so important to point out the will still be there post

pandemic. us from holly joseph.comes to she's in the bay area in california. sherreached out to us on twi kid holly sent us this video. >> how do we kee engaged and distance learning versus just completing their assigned tasks? >> nawaz: dr. vincent holly is in mhusband paul and my head's. whatow do we do this? this is so difficult for so many pants home schooling right now. >>ngeah, and, you know, teac now parents are being asked to do something that is a skilled profession.an so my advice is look for ways that it applies. that makes sense for you and it makes sense for the child and that you can demonstrateort of in the home setting. so it could be something like playing monopoly you gather if you're talking about money and making change. so looking for things that use those principles at school, but in a practical way where you're able to engage with them. but looking for ways that you can incorporate that into activities that you do. parents out there.ll the

dr. sarah vinson, thank you so much for being with us and taking these questions today. >> thank you. >> nawaz: and thanks to all of you for your questions, you can send us more anytime via nhos s, twitter, facebook and instagram accounts or on our web site, that's pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: online, we have more tips for parents on talking s to children about the vid their feelings. that's on our website, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. m judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe, and see you soon. >> major fundingor the pbs newshour has been proved by:

>> the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of sociid change worl >> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.yo than

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>> if you love tomatoes like i do, when summer rolls around, there's nothing better than cooking with fresh ripe tomatoes from your garden. but when it's winter, what do you do? i reach for a can of tomatoes, and if you're like me, you probably have a stash inour pantry. today, we're going to make a few recipes using canned tomatoes. we'll make tomato tartare with capers, black olives, and sil, a savory tomato bread pudding with parmigiano-reggiano, garlic, and basil, and crispy delicious fried tomatoes. these recipes will bringsu a little bit oer into a winter day. i love to travel the globe in search of new food and wine discoveries. for me, it's about mor than returning home with a handful of new recipes. of austria...king the spirit of italy... of greece... and of the danube river...