29 onwskqed neom, the supreme court has a does we talked to janet napolitano about the doctor relink the pandemic and educing the next generation to make lawmakers on capitol hill debate police reform, with one secaliforniator and possible presidential running mate, leading the way. welcome to kqed newsroom, i am priya david clemens, the supreme court revealing the face of a changing nation. as a surpriselgruling the q plus committee was granted the right to work without discrimination, throughout the country. there was a win for many children of undocumented immigran, those enrolled in the defeed action for childhood arrivals, or daca

program. on thursday the supreme court ruled that the trump administration cannot immediately and daca, the obama era program has allowed roughly 700,000 young immigrants who were brought to the u.s. by the parents, to live and work without fear of deportation. the recipients must pass every two years, to continue anticipating in the program. conservative chief justice john roberts sided with the courts liberal members in the 5 to 4 decision. joining me now from skype a is santa cluniversity school of our professor, professor gula sacrum, thanks for joinin. california is home to the largest number meof dr. even though this is a federal program, are there differences in how states treat dr. recipients, and the opportunities that are available to them? >> there is certainly a huge variation across the united

dates about the types of protections states gave to undocumented people, generally. and then specifically, lalicy d to youth and children. california is one of the most protectivetates in the united states, it allows undocumented children to access public es universiget funding for the, to access driver's licenses, to get affectionately licensedelds like law and medicine, and that is not the case in every state. >> the supreme court ruling may only be a temporary reprieve, could you tell us why that is, h and what we ld be looking for in the days ahead? >> justice roberts, chief justice roberts opinion is a very narrow opinion, what it is telling us is that it is not that the trump administration they want to take it away h they need to do it in the righte way, and the right reasons, and actually consider carefully the actions that they are taking. if dhs wanted to, todaey tomorrow could do such a thing. they could promulgate a memo that says here are all the reasons we have considered and now we are providing a better

basis for taking away the prograk >> do you ththat will happen? >> this has clearly been something that has been on the mind of the esident trump and his dhs, the department of homeland security, for some time. that said, it's an election year, we are six nths out from that, or five months out from the, so all of those factors might play into s wheth ally has the stomach to go back and change, and give another reason for taking away dacaci >> while this on was 5/4, as close as ssible, there wa consensus around another topic, especially discrimination. ally? you talk you through th >> both, in the night circuit, the university california case and the new york case, they were consolidated for the supreme court.bo the courts in of those cases thought there was enough evidence that daca rescission would be based on animus against latinos and mexicans in particular. if you look at the program, 80% of dr. recipients are mexican,

90% are mexican and, or, ic central am. the claim was that the rescission isn't based on reason but is based on racial animus, hatred, or prejudice against the group. pr e court 81 said there was insufficient evidence from this dissenter on that point was justice sotomayor, and that could have broader implications for racial claims and immigration generally outside of this content and >> in what wa >> i think if you look at trump versus away, the case about immigration bans th travel ban's,muslim back, again, in that case, the supreme court majority on a 5/4 majority, found that all the evidence of anti-muslim statements by president trump himself, were insufficient to make out a case of religio discrimination, as against the proclamation that banned the entry of people from majority muslim countries.

here again, you have that same sort of rationale. so it seems like part of a broader project, at least on the part of justice roberts, and he isreally thcourt not to allow those sorts of discrimination claims, in the immigration context. >> there are a large number of immigrant children that are undocumented and nocovered under daca, example anyone who wasn't in the united states can you tell us about the population? both here in california nationally? >> sure, ultimately daca and defeed action is never a complete program, they'll have s requiremnd quite strict requirements that leave out e laabs of the population. so i think if we are thinking forward, the only real fit that many people have said about this, is legislative. we need to think whether there are pathways to regularize status, not just for drforecipients but a much broader group, who are un cumented. after das created, in 2012, that is when you got the significant chil

migration surges, in 2014. again in 2016 and continued with people fleeing violence in central american countries. so the number of peop who are not covered by deferred action programs is only going to grow. >> the daca prram also doesn't offer a path to citizenship, so are these recipients in legal limbo if they can't become citizens or permanent residents? >> they certainly are, what they have now is to guarantee, o at leasttemporary time, that they will not be removed. and during that time they can work, or get work authorization and go to school. but that is all it provides. until congress steps in and congress is the only body that s can do through legislation, they would have to pass laws that provide some health to regularize status, as congress did in 1986 when it fo allowea mass legalization úpeople. to two or 3 million >> could you zoom out for us and tell us what the next pressing battle immigration

will be? le >> well, one slatively, and politically obviously, there is the battle over a more generalized compathensive, reform would increase channels of legal migration and also legal pathways for those here unlawfully. >> if we are looking for just court battle, there is a number, one of them has to do with detention and the use of the detention system, and prolonged tention. on aven night there are 50,000, 60,000 immigrants in cages, be locked in cages not for criminal activities. second, the trump administration is, through agency act n, much like the docket case, but there are other types of agency action to attempting to got what is our asylum system. essentially taken away. and i think th will be another front of significant dedication in the coming months read >> and, this ruling, and the court's earlier ruling, about lgbtq plus ghts, are more liberal than ava consve

court, should we look for that is assigned for unexpected decisions? >> yeah i think it is a little too thin of an evidence to suggest that the court is somehow turning in its ideological bent, the oy emnt discrimination for lgbtq folks, it was in many ways, a fairly simple legal decision. and i think that that is evidenced by the fact that there was a 6/3, a ve easy result to come to. the fact is, i think chief justice roberts would have written this decision whethe it was a conservative agency action or a liberal agency action, because the grounds are quite narrow. all he is saying, is that there is a low bar for agency action. >> thank you, thank you so much. >> tnks for having me. jat napolitano starte

her presidency at the university of california seven years ago, now with campuses empty by the coronavirus, einapolitano is over distance learning for 285,000 units across the you cc. from her post, to join the faculty at the goldman school of public policy at uc berkbyey. joining me noskype from oakland, is university of california resident, janet napolitano, she has also served as a governor ofarizona and the secretary of homeland security. resident napolitano, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> i was especially glad have you want because you have a close connection to daca, offered the program under president obama when you thhead department of homeland security, what is your response to the supreme court really, and particularly now that the in president hacated he will fight it. >> obviously very pleased by the supreme court really, it allows all of our daca students and the thousands of daca students around the country, to breathe a sigh of relief. that they will not immediately see the program terminatedthand selves being subject to

deportation and loss of their work authorization. and, frank, as to the president i don't understand why he is so intent on going after thg e yoople. they were brought he, typically undethe age of six, they have been raised in this country. they really only know the uned dates as home, and they are valuable, contributing members of our community, of our country, ann'i just know why he has such a problem with them. >> you know when e trump administration first announced in 2017 it would resend the daca program, you and the uc board of regents we one of the first lawsuits that was filed, why is this issue so important to thuc system? >> because the university of california has about 1700 docket students in its student body, to begin with. and secondly, a challenger of with the university nsistent

california's values, values of inclusion, and values of eq ty and, yknow the daca program, ally helps so ny young people brought to this country, as i have said, typically under the age of six. who only know the united states as home. it allows them to be in the country safely, and also to get work auorizations. so, we have students who we want to speak out for, and it was very consistent with our values. >> i want to turn now to race ti in plar and gender, it has been illegal for 20 years to consider race and gender in college application for this signal the want that practice to change. what is wrong with being blind to gender or ra, in th application process? >> well, because we don't live in a race blind society, and i think the events of e past week or so have served to

illustrate that. and in uc admissions we look at 14 factors, the only factor can't consider is race, ethnicity, or gender, which are very important as to the identi of a student. so, it's an arficial limitation. their applications. >> and what are some of the other qualities that you are >> we look at things like work experience, we look at things like did they take all the ap classes they could have taken, we look obviously at their grades. we lo at thei extracurricular activities. you know, all kinds of things. we just can't considce, ethnicity, or gender. and as i have said, it's just such an artificial limitation. >> president napolitano,

protest against police brutality and systemic inequality have gripped ou nation. and they have shown very clearly, that there is racism in our institutions, including education. could you talk abt how that has impacted the uc system and changes that may be coming? >> let me begithby saying like everyone i was horrified at watching george floyd's murder, and then hearing about the other murders, they st illustrated a problem that we have had in our country go g back centuries. and it is time to bring it out in the open, to confront it, tow deh it. and that goes with universities as well. so, our campuses are engaging ns in conversatacross the campus constituencies, with respect to homembers of underrepresented groups believe theyre treated, what wecan do and do better. and if the system level we are focused on university policing, i had attacked a task force

where we came up with a number of recommendations which we implement it, but we will go back and look again to see what more we can do, so that our e of a partnership, and we is are fostering a culture of safety on our campuses, but not overbearing police presence. >> he also dealing with the pandemic, uc davis said they will reopen their campus in the fall, why thatrticular school, and what is happening with the other uc campuses? >> all of our campuses will be opening to some degree, we will be hybri meaning that much of the academic program will still be delivered online, just as it has been the springan we are spending the summer really upping our game in terms of the quality of that online delivery. but, we also recognize the

value of the in person experience. and so, to the degree they can safely do and we have safety thresholds, the campuses have to be. the campuses are seeking to reopen, and have some classes in person. and also, to some degree, reopening the dormitories. >> there is is ongoing cultural discussion about what i points are appropriate to represent in the public sphere, in 2017 you shut down an appearance by a right-wing ow commentator fog violent protests on campus, and more recently there has been a backlash against an incendiary conservative editorial price to them in her cotton, arguing in favor of military intervention. to the response against police totality. are there some voices that should not be ard? in the current marketplace of ideas? >> you know the university of california is the home to eee free movement. when we shut down the bible

monopolist event at berkeley, úthat was to protect milo, because the protest had gotten out of hand. but we subsequentd my low back on campus, for what was called free speech week. it cost us lot ofmoney, to provide the extra security that was necessary. t, different viewpoints, particularly on university campuses, should be heard. d,they should be debathey should be read should be refuted but that should not be censored. >> the world is shifting quickly, what advice would you have for your successor and what would you encourage the next generation to focus on learning? >> the advice to my successor would be to spend time getting to know the university, travel around the campuses, et with the students and facult staff. arn what the camp aspirations are, and set one or two big goals for the university. that you can mobilize the whole

system around. one of my big goals for example, was that we would be th carbon neutral byyear 2025. to leaby way ofexample, in the fight against the change. and with respect to educating the next generation, i think we cannot lose sight of what i believe to be the greatest existential threat confronting us. and that is the warming of the planet. so i do hope my successor will continue the pursuit of that goal, and have some of his or her own. >> president janet napolitano, thank you so much. >> thank you. facing a monday deadline laedakers in sacramento pa a temporary budget, talks are continuing with governor gavin newsom on how to close a $54 billion deficicreated by the coronavirus pandemic. steep cuts to education and healthcare services limb, unless congress approves a new round of funding. for cash-strapped governments.

meanwhile, on capitol hill, the senate jiciary committee held its first hearing on police reform. senate democrats, leby california senator kamala harrisand new jersey senator cory booker support bans on chuckles and no knock warrants. on wednesday, gop senator tim scott unveiled his own police l. reform b that house speaker nancy pelosi and other prominent democrats, denounced for not going far enough. the majority me now by skype to discuss all this, from san francisco with ed politics , is run only by skype. thank you both for maria, let's start with the money, state lawmakerpassed a budget bu we are in this unusual position in which this budget is is not actually finally is, can you talk us through th and what we will have a real budget? >> we are in this position and that economic clthe andemic

california fell off, a $54 billion budget deficit that suddenly appeared after a surplus had been projected justb montore. lawmakers have to pass a budget by june 15, they did pass something, it is not exactly what e governor wanthe is pushing for deeper cuts to help deal with the deficit, that would take place basically july 1st, with the fiscal ye. begi they would like to see those cuts be sort of laid out a few months, coin hopes ress would come out with more money and also to send not be quite as deep, to move arnd many in what critics call budget gimmicks. >> run,let's talk about this with you, so you are an easy, what are the chances that there will be another round of stimulus funding, and has democrst the tree trillion dollar stimulus bill a month ago, it hasn't been forwarded to the senate. we are hearing from secretary jerome powell that he would like to see americans get re cash relief. >> absolutely and we have also heard from one the economic

advisers in the white house, peter navarro, that he would like to see the next package be at least $2 trillion. now, that is not the 3.5 trillion that the house has already passed, but it is cha higher figure than the house republicans wanted or what the senate republicans were sent still four. ar so wa long ways apart, and usually the easiest thing to get what the people in washington don't want to do, is spending money. but we have spent so much money many republicans are asking when do we see results from this, isn't the economy getting better? do we really need to do this ght this minute? isn't this really just to help the state governments out of their ysal problems? and they pointed to a california or an illinois and say those people got themselves into their own probl that is not of you in the house, but that is the viewam g some senate republicans, and that is where we stand. >> another major issue for the

country, and that is being talked about on capitol hill is police reforme there fferent narratives, that are winding their way through, what is taking hold, and is there any proposal for ha reformlooks like it could move through on a bipartisan basis? >> no proposal thus far, i think the only thing they are agreed upon, between the chambers of the parties, is that they would like to do something.they would like to ha they would like us not to just di but what has been passed or not pastor, but proposed in the house, but will be debated and e voted on next , would be pretty tough. it would ban, put a federal ban on chuckles, would change the law with respect to no knock warrants, for drug cases. it uld also go after qualified immunity, that is a legal term that means essentially that the police officers are very difficult to hold responsible and courts for their action. so all of those things are in the house bill, the senate wants to sort of loat those things, and dis-incentivize se chuckles, as opto banning them out right. as a federal law. so, there is a gap between the

two and if there is any chance of bridging it will largely depend on people like tim scott who is the only black republican in the senate, being able to sell his colleagues, in that chamber, on more of the house thlanguage. >> murray said, the house leaves away where are cultural ideas and discussion, this is an area where they could do that, what are the ro policysals being put forward that to take hold in california when it comes to police reform? >> i think you nd of hato look at two things, what is happening statewide legislatively, i need to go point we have acally led th way on a lot of things we are talking about. we have a bill going, of law ct going into efin january that will require more training, we have the governor and the attorney general here in california comit in favor of banning chuckles, so i think lawmakers in sacramento will likely take up some of those issues antry to push some of that training, perhaps even qualified immunity questions, and other legal implicatiout forward. but the of this is that a lot of these issues are really sort of come to bear at the

local level. these are involved in police union contract negotiations, and what mayors and boards of supervisors and city councils approved when it comes to those union contracts. we have seen police units in san francisco, and l.a., in san jose, the three biggest cities, come out and say they would support some of the onna reforms. but they are still backing ballot measures that will go back some of the criminal justnte reforms of re years. so i think we are where the rubber meets the road, and we have seen those in other places and they want poto move ce budget money into social response teams, crisis response teams, that can go and help out instead of sending in armed officers. but those reforms could take a while. and i do thk that it'sgoing to depend on the pressure that the public keeps up on our local officials. >> let's turn to presidential campaign polics, r senator,

kamala harris, seems to be on the shortlist for a vice presidential pick for joe biden.sh how doesstand in the horserace right now, and who else is in the running? memories i'll start with you. >> yeah, i think it is hard to tell right now. there is a list of tome eight a dozen people that the biting campaign hapabeen ntly vetting. he has promised that the vp candidate will be a woman. kamala harris is up there along with other prominent african- americans like stacey abrams, florida representative val devex, a former police chief or have seen some not as well- known names, the governor of new mexico, and i think in some ways, harr brings a lot to the table, she is african- american she has a background in policing, but that is a double-edged sword, when she ths ready. k there is a question now as she tries to lead the way on capitol hill, if that is ing to enough for some people in a progressive lien on the

party. but, i definitely think she is on the shortlist. >> ron, i would like to turn to you, and talk about the tulsa ua rally, ay, that is happening tomorrow. president trump is planning to have this big rally, despite fears of the coronavirus and ane ou. i am curious about why you think it is so important for him to have an impressive rally, whehe is master of getting his message out through social media, and through the aialaves. >> first ofhe loves of these rallies, they are fun for him. they ergize him, they make him feel the way he wants to feel, as a national lead and as a candidate for reelection. secondly, he sees them as some kind of a counter narrative, to what were otherwise heard about his prospects, which are series of polls going again president. he has fallen from his highs in march to some of the lo st numbers of his presidency, s of his approval polls are below 40, that is a real danger zone for an incumbent president to be below 40's appercent oval.

and he is trailing joe biden in some of these polls double figures. so he is unhappy about that, he is arguing with it on social media but wahe really s a visual, vivid, counter narrative, of wonderfully excited donald trump fans in tulsa or wherever else he goes next. terribly excited to be with him and see him in restoring if you will, the old energy of 2060. >> marissa what do you think of the political vulnerabtrities for presidenp and for joe biden as they head into the summer? is there something you think coulthderail either of r presidential campaigns? >> i think certainly the economy for trump is a big issue. he's hoping it turns around, and i think how t pandemic plays out, we are seeing huge upticks in states like florida and texas, as well as califor a in those race i think those are the futile things, and i think the policing conversation and ray's conversation is certainly something thmocrats are stronger to bring to voters and talk about, but that can be a tough thing for people like joe biden he was in his 70s and not always been so progressive

on those issues. two yeah, right. bo thank you so much for joining me. you n find moof our coverage at kqed.org, you can reach me through my social media handle, priya d clements, for all of us are unusual, good night.watching.

captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicapasrg robert: he nation marks juneteenth, president trump faces challenges. >> i don't thi he fit for office. i don't think he has the competence. he is doing it for the money. >> it's the washington swamps. robert: the president and his allies diss miss the explosive claims and the president remains defiant with a rurnt to ail over the choice of tulsa. and as protests persists,re co is at a cross roads on race and police reform. >> there is a transition taking place in the country and what we'll ith this legislation is