29 on kqed newsroom, the supreme court has a does we talked to janet napolitano about the doctor relink the pandemic and educating the next generation. to make lawmakers on capitol hill debate police reform, with one california senator and mate, leading the way. n welcome to kqed newsroom, i am priya david clemens, the supreme court revealing the face of chging nation. as a surprise ruling the lgbtq plus committee was granted the right to work without discrimination, throughout the r country. was a win for many children of undocumented immigrants, those enrolled in the deferred action for

childhood arrivals, or daca program. on thursday the supreme court ruled that the trump administration cannot immediately and daca, the obama era program has allowed roughly 700,000 young immigrantsghwho were brout to the u.s. by the parents, to live and wo without fear of deportation. the recipients must pass background checks, and reapply every two years, to contin anticipating in the prram. conservative chief justice john roberts sided with the courts liberal members in the 5 to 4 decision. joining me now from skype is santa clara university schoolf our professor, professor gula sacrum, thanks for joining us. california is home to the largest number of dreamers. even though thde is a l program, are there differences in how states treat dr. recipients, and the opportunities that are available to them? >> there is certainly a huge dates about the tyof ited

protections states gave to undocumented people, generally. and then specifically, policy related to youth and children. california is one of the most protective states in the united states, it allows undocumented children to access public universities, get funding for licenses, to get affectionately licensed in fields like law and medicine, and that is not the case in every state. >> the supremcourt ruli may only be a temporary reprie could you tell us why that is, and what we should be looking for in the days ahead? >> justice roberts, chief very narrow opinion, what it is telling us is that it is not that the trump administration cat take away dacabut that if they want to take it away way, and gave the right lyright reasons, and actuconsider carefully the actions that they are taking. if dhs wanted to, today, tomorrow, they could do such a n they could promulgate a memo ay that ss here are all the reasons we have considered and

now we are providing a better basis for taking away the program. >> do you think that will happen? >> this has clearly been something that has been on the mind of the president trump and his dhs, the department of homeland security, for some time. that said,onit's an elec year, we are six months out from that, or five months out from the, so l of the factors mighplay into whether dhs really has the stomach to go back and change, and give another reason r taking away daca. >> while this decision was 5/4, as close as possible, there was consensus around another topic, especially discrimlkation. could you you through that really? the university of california case and the new york case, they were consolidated for the supreme court. the courts in both of those cases thought there was enough evidence that daca rescission would be based on animus against latinos and mexicans in particular. if you look at the program, 80%

of dr. recipients are mexican, 90% are mexican anor, central american. the claim was that the se rescission isn't on reason but is based on racial animus, hatred, or prejudice against the group. supreme court 81 said there wasu icient evidence from this to forward, the only dissenter on that point was justice sotomayor, and that could have broader implications for racial claims and immigration generally outside of this >>content and in what way? >> i think if you look at trump immigration bans or travel ban's, the muslim back, again, in that case, the supreme court majority on a 5/4 thmajority, found all the evidence of anti-muslim statements by president trump himself, were insufficient to make out a case of religious discrimination, as against the proclamation that banned the entry of people from

majority muslim countries. here again, you have that same sort of rationale. so it seems like part of a broader project, at least on the part of justice roberts, and he is really the c to allow those sorts of discrimination claims, in the immigration context. >> there are a large number of immigrant children that are undocumented and not c under daca, example anyone who wasn't in the united states og with the m began in 2012, can you tell us about the population? both here in california nationally? >> sure, ultitely daca and deferred action is never a complete prograey'll have requirements and quite strict requirements that leave out large swabs of the population. so i think if we are thinking forward, the only real fit that many people have said abist thislegislative. we need to rethink whether there are pathways to stregularize status, not for dr. recipients but for a much broader group, who are undocumented. after daca was created, in significant child migration he

surges, in 2014. again in 2016 and continued with people fleeing violence in central americ countries. so tmber of people who are not covered by deferred action programs is only gointo grow. >> the daca program also doesn't offer a path to citizenship, so are these recipients in legal limbo if they can't become citizens or permanent residey s? >> they certaie, what they have now is toguarantee, at least for temporary time, that they will not be removed. and during that time they can work, or get work d authorizati to school. but that is all it provides until congress steps in and congress is the only body that can do this through gislation, they would ha pass laws that provide some health to regularize status, as congress did in 1986 whit allowed for a mass legalization of close to two or 3 million c ld you zoom out for us and tell us what the next pressing battle immigration

will be? >> well, one legislatively, and politicallobviously, there is the battle over a more generalized comprehensive, reform that would increase annels of legal migration and also legal pathways for those here uawfully. >> if we are looking for just court battle, there is a number, one of them s to do with detention and the use of the detention system, and prolonged detention. on a given night there ,0e , 60,000 immigrants in cages, be lock in cages not for criminal activities. second, the trump administration is, through agency action, much like in the doaret case, but there other types of agency action to attempting to got what is our asylum system. d i think that will be another front of significant dedication in the coming months read >> and, this ruling, and the ie court's earuling, abt lgbtq plus rights, are more liberal than a conservative

court, should we look for that is assigned for unexpected decisions? >>eah i think itis a little too thin of an evidence to suggest that the court is somehow turning in its ideological bent, the employment discrimination for lgbtq folks, it was in many ways, a fairly simple lega decision. and i think that that is evidenced by the fact that there was 3,a a very easy e docket decision 5/4, but the fact is, i think chief justice roberts wouln have writis decision whether it was a conservative agency acon or a liberal agency action, because the grounds are quite narrow. all he is saying, is that there is afolow bar r agency action. so thank you, thank you much. >> thanks for having me. janet napolitano started

her presidency at the university of california seven years ago, now with campuses empty by the coronavirus, napolitano is overseeing distance learning for it5,000 across the you cc. in auguste is stepping down from her post, to join th faculty at the goldman school of public policy at uc berkeley. joining me now by skype from kland, is university california resident, janet napolitano, she has also served as a governor of arizona and the secretary of rihomeland se. resident napolitano, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> i was especially glad to have you wantbecause you have a close connection to daca, offered the program under id prt obama when you headed the department of homeland security, what is your response to the supreme court really, anatparticularly now the president has indicated he will fight it. >> obviously very pleased by the supreme court really, it allows all of our daca students and the thousands of daca eathe a sigh of relief. try,to that they will not immediately see the program terminated, and themselves being subject to

deportation and loss of their work authorization. and, frank, as to the president i don't understand why he is so intent on going after these young people. they were brought here, typically under the age of x, they havebeen raised in this country. they really only know the united dates as ho, and they are valuable, contributing members of our community, of our country, and i just don't know why he has such a problem with them. >> you know when the trump administration first announuld in 2017 it resend the daca program, you and the uc board of regents were one of the first lawsuits at was filed, why is this issue so important to the uc system? >> because the university of california has about 1700 docket students in its student body, to beth. and secondly, a challenger of

the program, very consistent with the university of california's values,n,values of inclusand values of equity and, you know the daca program, really helps so many leyoung pebrought to this country, as i have said, typically under the age of six. who only knowatthe united as home. it allows them to be in the country safely, and also to get workauthorizations. so,we have students who we want to speak out for, and it was very consistent with ouva es. >> i want to turn now to race in particular and gender, it has been illegal for 20 years to consider race and gender in college application for this webo the uc d of regents signal the want that practice to change. what is wrong with being blind to gender or race, in the applicatiobeprocess? >> well,use we don'live in a race blind society, and i think the events of the past

week or so have served to illustrate that. and in uc admissions we look at 14 factors, the only factor we can't consider is race, whhnicity, or gender, h are very important as to the identity of a student. so, it's an artificial limitation. their applications. >> and what are some of the other qualities that yoare looking at? >> we look at things like work experience, we look at things like did they take all the ap classes they uld have taken, we look obviously at their grades. we look at their extracurricular activities. you know, all kinds of things. we just can't consider race, ethnicity, or gender. and as i have said, it's just alsuch an artifilimitation. >> president napolitano,

protest against police brutaluay and systemic inty have gripped our nation. and they have shown very clearly, that there is racism in our institutions, including education.could you talk about has impacted the uc system and let me begin by saying that like everyone i was horrified at watching george floyd's murd, and then hearing about the other murders, they just illustrated a problem that we have had in oucountry going back centuries. and it is time to bring it out in the opnf, to nt it, to deal with it. and that goes with universities as well. so, our campuses are engaging in conversations across the campus constituencies, with respect to how members of ro underrepresenteds believe they are treated, what we can do and do better. focused on universitycing, are i had attacked a task force

where we came up with a number h recommendations whwe implement it, but we will go back and look again to see what more we can do, so that our la onship with our police is one of a partnership, and we are fostering a culture of safety on r campuses, but not overbearing police presence. >> he also dealing with the pandemic, uc davis said they will reopen eir campus in the fall, why that particular school, and what is happening with the other uc campuses? all of our mpuses will be opening to some degree, will be hybrid, meaning that much of the acadic program will still be delivered online, just as it has been the spring. and we are spending the summer really upping ougame in terms of the quality of that online

devery. but, we also recognize the value of the in person experience. and so, to eye degree can safely do it, and we have safety thresholds, the campuses have to the campuses are seeking to reopen, and have some classes in person. and also, to some degr, reopening the dormitories. >> there is this ongoing cultural discussion about what viewpoints are appropriate to represent in the public sphere, appearance by a right-wing commentator following violent protests on campus, and more recently there has been a backlash against an ince iary conservatiitorial price them in her tom cotton, arguing in favor of military intervention. to the response against police tality. are there me voices that should not be heard? in the currt marketplace of ideas? >> you know the university of california is the home to the free speech movement. e whenshut down the bible

monopolist event at berkeley, úthat was to protect milo, because the protest had goen out of hand. but we subsequently had my low back on campus, for what was called free speech week. it cost us a lot of money, to se provide the extrrity that was necessary. but, erdit viewpoints, particularly on university campuses, should be heard. they should be debated, they should be ad should be refuted but that should not be censored. >> the world isshifting ickly, what advice would you have for your successor and what would you encourage the next generation to focuon learning? >> the advice to my successor would be to ttspend time g to know the university, travel around the campuses, meet with the students and faculty and staff. learn what the campus two big goals fothe set one or university. that you can mobilize the whole

system around. one my big goals for example, was that we would be carbon neutral by the year to lead by way of example, in the fight against the change. and with respect educating the next generation, i think cannot lose sight of what i believe to be the greatest existential threat confronting us. and that is the warming of the planet. so i do hope my successor will continue the pursuit of that goal, and have some ofhis or her own. >> president janet napolitano, thank you so much. >> thank you. facing a monday deadline lawmakers in sacramento passed a temporary budget, talks are continuing with governor gavin newsom on how to close a $54 billion deficit created by the coronavirus pandemic. steep cut unless congress approv a new round of funding.

for cash-strapped governments. meanwhe, on capitol hill, th senate judiciary committee held its first hearing on police reform. senate democrats, led by california senator kamala harris, and new jersey senator cory booker support bans on chuckles and no knock warrants. wednesday, gop senator tim scott unveiled his own police reform bill. that house speaker nancy d pelo her prominent democrats, denounced for not going far enough. the majority me now by skype to ancisco with kqed politics , is run only by skype. thank you both for maria, let's start with the money, state lawmakers passed a budget but we are in sithis unusual on in which this budget is is not lk us through this and what we will have a real budget? >> we are in this position because ic coronavirus pand and that economic cliff the

california fell off, a $54 billion budget deficit that suddenly appeared after a surplus had been projected just months before. lawmakers have to pass a budget by june 15, they did pass something, it is not exactly what the governor wants, he is pushtsg for deeper to help deal with the deficit, that would take place basically july 1st, with the fiscal year begins. they would like to see those cuts be sort of laidout a few months, in hopes congress would come out mowith more y and also to send not be quite as deep, to move around many in what critics call. budget gimmic >> run, let's talk about this with you, so you are an easy, what arethe chances thatthere will be another round of stimulus funding, and have democrats past the tree bitrillion dollar stimulus a month ago, it hasn't been forwarded to the senate. we are hearing from secretary jerome powell that he would like to see americans get more cash relief.d >> aolutely we have also

heard from one of the economic h advisers in the e house, peter navarro, that he would like to see the next package be at least $2 trillion. now, that is not the 3.5 trillion that the house has ed already pabut it is a much higher figure than the house republicans wanted or what the senate republicans were sent still four. so we are a long ways apart, and usually the easiest thing to whget the people in washington don't want to do, is spending money. but we have spent so much moneya many repub are asking when do we see results from this, isn't the economy getting better? do we really need to do this right this minute? isn't this really just to help the state governments out of their physical problems? and theypointed to california or an illinois and say those people got themselves into their own problems. ofthat is not you in the house, but that is the view among some senate republicans, and that is whwe stand.

>> another major issue for the country, and that is being talked about on capitol hill is police reform. there are different narratives, that a winding their y through, what is taking hold, and is there any proposal for reform that looks like it couldt moough on a bipartisan basis? >> no proposali thus far, think the only thing they are agreed upon, between the chambers of the parties, is that they uld like todo something. they would like to have a bill, they would like us not to just die. but what has been passed or not pastor, but proposed in the house, but will be debated and voted on next week, would be gh pretty t it would ban, put a federal ban on chuckles, would change the law with respect to no knock warrants, for drses. it would also go af qualified immunity, that is a legal term that means esse ially that the police officers hold responsible and courts for th r action. so all those things are in the house bill, the senate wants to sort of look at those things, and dis-incentivize chuckles, as opposed to banning them out right. as a federal la, ere is a gap betweethe

two and ifthere is y chance of bridging it, it will largely depend on people like tim scott who is the only black republican in the senate, ing able to sell his colleagues that chamber, on more of the house the language. >> murray said, the house leaves away when there are cultural ideas and discussion, this is an area where they could do that, what e the policy proposals being put forward that to take hold california when it comes to police reform? >> i think you kind of have to lookwht two things, is happening statewide legislatively, i need to go point we have actually led the way on a lot inof we are talking about. we have a bill going, of law going into effect in january that will require more training, we have the governor and the attorney general here in california coming out in favor of banning chuckles, so i think lawmakers in sacramento will lely take up me of those issues and try to push some of that training, perhaps even qualified immunity question and other legal implications forward. but the truth of this is that a lot of these issues are really

sort of come to bear at the local level. these are involved in police union contract negotiations, atand mayors and boards of supervisors and city councils approved when it comes to those union contracts. we have seen police units in o, san franciand l.a., in san jose, the three biggest cities, come out and say they would support some ofthe national reforms. but theybaare still ing ballot measures that will go back some of the criminal justice reforms of recent years. so ithink we are where the rubber meets the road, and we have seen those in other places and they want to move police budget money into social rvices or mental health response teams, crisis response teams, that can go and help out inmeead of sending in officers. but those reforms could take a while. and i do think that it's going the public keeps upon our local officials. >> let's turn to presidential campaign politics, our senator,

kamala harris, seems to be on the shortlist for a vice r presidential pick joe biden. how does she stand in the horserace right now, and who else is in ruthe ing? memories i'll start with you. >> yeah, i think it is hard to tell right now. there stis a of some eight biting campaign has been apparently vetting. he has promised that the vp candidate will be a woman. kamala harr is up there along with other prominent african- americans like stacey abrams, florida representative val po devex, a formercechief or so. we have seen some not as well- known names, the governor of new mexico, and i think in some ways, harris brings a lot to the table, she is african- american she has a background in policing, but that is a e uble-edged sword, when was ready. i think there is a question now as she tries to lead the way on capitol hill, ifat is going to be enough for some people in a progressive lien on the

party. but, i definitely think she is on the shortlist. >> ron, i would like to turn to you, and talk about the tulsa rally, actually, that is happening tomorrow. president trump is planning to have this big rally, despite fears vi the coros and an outbreak. i am curious about why you think it is so important for him to ha an impressi rally, when he is a master of getting his message out through social media, and through the airwaves. >> first of all he loves of these raies, they are fun for him. they energize him, they make hihefeel the way wants to a feel, asnational leader and as a candidate for reelection. secondly, he sees them as some kind of a unter narrative, to what were otherwise heard about his prospectswhich are series of polls going against the president. he has fallen from his highs inf march to some the lowest numbers of his presidency, some of his approval polls are below 40, that is a real danger zone for an incumbent president to beelow 40's percent approval.

and he is trailing jo biden in some of these polls by double figures. so he is unhappy about that, he is arguing with iton social media but he really wants a visual, vivid, counter narrative, of wonderfully excited donald trump fans in tulsa or wherevse he goes next. terribly excited to be with him and see him in restoring if you will, the old energy of 2060. e political vulnerabilities of for president trump and for joe biden as they head into the summer? is there k mething you th could derail either of their presidential campaigns? >> i think certainly the economy for trump is a big issue. he's hoping it turns around, and i think how the corunna pandemic plays out, we are seeing huge upticks in states like florida and texas, as well as california in those races. i think those are the futile things, and i think the policing conversatnvn and ray's sation is certainly something that democrats are stronger to bring to voters and tough thing for ople like joe biden he was in his 70s and has

not always been so progressive on tyese issues. two , right. thank you both so much for . joining you can find more of our coverage at kqed.org, you can reach ci through my media handle, priya d clements, for all of us are unusual, thanks for watching. good night.

captioning sponsored by wnet >tisreenivasan: on this edion for sunday, june 21: president trump returns to the rame-electionign trail. covid-19 cases continue to surge across the country. a dnd, anti-asicrimination worries, as schools weigh reopening in the fall. next, on pbs newshour weekend. >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: rnard and irene schwartz sue anedgar wachenheim iii. the cheryl and philip milstein family. rosalind p. walter. barbara hope zuckeerg. charles rosenblum. we try to live in the mome, to not miss what's right in front of us. at mutual of america, we