captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woouff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: ongoing outrage. protests for rial justice continue nationwide with pockets of violence as the president visits kenosha, wisconsin. then, feeling the pain. we explore the economic costs of covid, as congress remains deadlocked on any more aid. and, healthcare abroad. we visit t united kinom for an up-close look at the benefits and drawbacks of a sine-payer medical system. >> if i have a heart attack tomorrow, it's the best thing-- they will take me in, they will do it. but when you've got what i call disabilities that are not life-threatening, they can't cope. >> woodruff: all that and more,t ight's pbs newshour.

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more at kf.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributionsur pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: president trump has spent much of this day in kenoa, wisconsin, touting hi law-and-order campaign. e city erupted in outrage last week, after police shot a black man, jacob blake, in the back today, mr. trump toured burned- out stores, praising police and denouncing democratic officials. we will hear more, after the news summary. protests broke out overnight ar los angeles, after sheriff's deputies killed a black man. officials say he resisted arrest, then dropped a bundle

containing a gun, and the deputies opened fire. dozens of people swarmed to the scene after nightfall, in protests that turn tense when officers pushed into crowds to disperse them. two sheriffs near portland, oregon are refusing the governor's plea to send in deputies. there have been months o almost nightly violence, and a counter-demonstrator was killed over the weekend. the sheriffs say that the city is doing little to calm thn'gs, so they risk their deputies. in new york, mayor bill de blasio today put off public school re-openings for another 11 days, till september 21. it is to give teachers more time to prepare for having students back in class. euanwhile, schools across pe began re-opening. students in france practiced extra hand-washing. and in italy, faculty members warmly welcomed pupils.

>> ( translated ): after six months of being from our children, who is our passion in life, today i was thrilled to be able to be with them once again. unfortunately, we haven't yet been able to hug them, but we will. i was longing to see the mothers, and i can't wait to begin living again. >> woodruff: in hong kong today, a universal covid testing ogram began. but, pro-democracy advocates warnedhat authorities might use it to collect citizen's d.n.a. meanwhile, a study of 30,000 people in iceland, the largest yet, found than antibodies last at least four months after covid infection. that is hopeful news for vaccine efforts. republans in the u.s. senate may roll out a slimmed-down pandemic relief bill next week. it could total $500 billion, with aid for the unemployed, nd schools. but democrats favor a $2 trillion measure, and talks are stalled. at a house hearing today,

treasury secretary steven mnuchin called for passing what's possible. >> we should agree on areaser we can agree, and move forward for the benefit of the american people. that's what we're all here for. again, let's not get caught on a number. we can move forward on a bipartisan basis now. >>soodruff: we'll look at t in detail, later in the program. ie pentagon is projecting that china could doub nuclear warhead arsenal over the next decade. a report to congress says that grthe chinese stockpile ma to more than 400 warheads. ate u.s. has 3,800. the pentagon est that beijing aims to surpass the u.s. as the dominant power in t pacific by 2049. back in this country, more than 50 black fmer franchise owners of mcdonald's sued the fast food chain today. their federal lawsuit, filed in chicago, accuses the company of steering them to less profitable

locations in crime-ridde neighborhoods. mcdonald's denies the allegations. and on wall street, stocks rallied again on reports that construction spending and factory activity are rising. thgedow jones industrial ave gained 215 points to close at 28,645. the nasdaq rose 164 points, and the s&p 500 add 26. shares of zoom video surged 40% today, making it worth more than g.m. and ford. its buness has exploded with the pandemic. still to come on the newshour: protests for racial justice president visits k,, as the wisconsin. congress remains deadlocked on a coronavirus economic relief package, as jobless claims remain high. t isit the united kingdom for an up-close looke benefits and drawbacks of a single-payer

health care system.e. plus, much m >> woodruf race, justice, law and order. we face a critical moment in amera. as yamiche alcindor reports, protests in the streetare a key issue at the ballot box, and wisconsin was at the center of attention today. >> alcindor: one day after comparing police shootin to golf, and justifying a trump supporter who allegedly killed two people, esident trump came to kenosha, wisconsin. the city is still reeling from the police shooting of jacob blake. the president toured damages stemming from the unrest and met with law enforcement. >> we've seen tremendous

violence, and we will put it out very quickly if given the chance, and that's what this is all about. yeah, i keep hearing about peaceful protests. i hear it about everything. like this, and the town is burned down. >> alcindor: the president's visit toy spawned even more demonstrations, and some confrontations between his matter protesters.ck lives he did not meet with jacob blake's family.ay theyhe 29-year-old is paralyzed after a kenosha police officer shot him seven times in the back.e blake's unoke this afternoon. >> our nephew was shot seven tinos in the back. ing could justify that. he had no weapon. and he's paralyzed right now in the hospital. we don't have any words for the orange man. all i ask that he keep his disrespectful, foul language far away from r family. >> alcindor: the shooting on august 23 touched off a week of turmoil and almost-daily protests.ma were peaceful gatherings, but some evenings saw fires,

vandalism and lootinore democratic governor tony evers sent in the national guard. city officials estimate the cost far at nearly $2 million.y so and today, evers announced state loans assist local businesses. democrats across wiscoin repeatedly requested the president not to visit, saying he would only ignite tensions. >> this is trump's america! >> alcindor: and, the national democratic party released an ad today that echoed that, blamings ent trump for scenes of violence. his meeting with law enforcement today comes after he told officers face high-pressurece situations. he then compared police shootings to golfing.he >>can do 10,000 great acts, which is what they do, and one bad apple, or a choker-- yo.know, a joker-- they cho you know, i mean, in the

meantime, he might'v going for a weapon, and you know, there's a whole big thing there. but they choke, just like lf a ournament. >> alcindor: yesterday, president trump also defended 17-year-old kyle rittenhouse, who is charged with shooting three people last tuesday during the protests. >> he was trng to get away from them, i guess-- it looks like. and he fell, and then they very violently attacked him. he was in very big trouble. he would have been-- i-- he probably would have been killed. >> alcindor: prosecutors say rittenhouse shot one personpr before esters charged him. they tried to take his gun away before he fired agn. in that same interview, president trump also encouraged a baseless conspiracy theory that powerful people in "dark shadows"ere behind the protests. wisconsin decrats, such as u.s. congressman mark pocan, who represents madon, condemned the president's words. >> we don't want people coming in from out of stateith guns, acting like vigilantes, thinking that they're running the street and yet that is exactly what donald trump is proting, as he promotes his racial di. >> alcindor: the presidents'

commts are not the first time he has appred to condoneol vice. after a woman was killed protesting against a white nationalist rally in charlottesville in 2017, he said this: >> you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> alcindor: and on the campaign protester interrupting a rally... >> i'd like to punch him in the face. >> alcindor: back inenosha, the family of jacob blake led a community clean-up, food drive and voter registration event at the site where he was shot. they are still calling for the officer who shot him to be charged. for the pbs newshour, i'm yamiche alcindor. >> woodruff: the economic crisis stemming from the covid-19 pandemic has worn on for months now. congress is still a long way

from passing aonew round of ic relief, and one of the limited actions that president ump took a few weeks ago is still in the middle of being implemented. here to explain where things stand is our own la desjardins. we know there are something like 27 million americans who are receiving some form ofnt unemployenefits, and it was just a matter of weeks ago that president trump promised an additional $300 a week, but the states had to sign on. what do we know about where all that stands? >> reporter: judy, nearly every state has to apply to get that money. but they have to make a choice to do it. states can either ask for $300 per person, and because of some creative guidance by the trump administtion, t e state doesve to contribute anything, or the state could choose to add another $100on its own, for $400 a week for each

unemployed person. each state has a different system. many are outdated, so it is taking weeks, in some cases maybe months, for the states to process andt is going. so let's explain what is happening through a series of maps. first of all, let's look at this, look at the red state, south dakota, that is the only state that has declined to participate, that state saying s economy is good and it doesn't need that extra money. look at these five states. these are the five states that have decided to give $400 a week for their unemployed. that is their plan. as you can see here in yeow, nearly every other state is opting for the $300ecause most states say they don't have the budget to contribute themselves. but here is the big question: how many workers are seeing the money right now? these states. just five states have been able to get out this extra, in most cases, $300 per person. this money is cominfr a disaster fund that is also meant for hurricanes.

that money is running out quickly. ere is a race to get this money, and it seems that maybe only ur or five weeks total will be available for any state. a >> woodruff:nd, lisa, if you step back, what does this mean for people who are counting on this money? i know our team has reached out to a numb of people who are unemployed. >> that's right. really talking to a lot of people. and you know, judy, it was $600 additional that theunse ployed workers were getting, but that ran out weeks ago, and congress has sort ofeen stuck in negotiations since. so for many these families, that's $3,000 less they have. that means a lot of anxiety. i've heard of families cutting back, trying to pool resources, but they're jst not sure how long they'll be able to make it with those tactics. one of those people is elizabeth bartholomew, from grand rapids, michigan. she is an eventslanner who lost her job because

of the coronavirus. >> before this, my husband and i shared mortgage and split up our bills and stuff. and now all of that is ohim. and so, i think he feels a lot of pressure because of that. and my-- you know, whatever little i make, is just-- i'm-- kids.uying groceries for my >> reporter: feeding her family and helping people dendent on you, anther quote. this from a woman named kim, in mesaarizona, and she was laid off because of the coronavirus. shtold us it is pretty much between the choices of paying car insurance or buying food or keeping the o internfour my children, who are paying to go to college online.o so, judy, at of very difficult choices right now. people are getting creative, but they're not sure howong this can last, and anxiety is rising very quickly. >> woodruff: anda, meanwhile, lverybody is looking to the congress to see what they are up towhere everythin stands. what do you know? >> that's the frustrating part, all of these people

agree they expected with something by.hrough bow congress is still negotiating. senate republicans, i'm told, feel they are close to having the own plan, a small plan dealing with businesses largely, but it remains to be seen, judy. house itself is onlye supposed to be in session for three weeks in septber. so everyone agrees, experts, the unemployed, everyone, septembere window to get this done, to come up with moret able relief, we will have more serious economic problems very soon. >> woodruf people waiting to see what happens. lisa desjardins following thank you. us. you're welcome. >> woodruff: we continue now with our series on ual health care. tonight, william brangham and producer jason kane turn to

the u.k., where its national health service covers everyone. thatparks inspiration and alarm in the u.s. with its universal coverage. this story was filmed before the pandemic erupted. d good morning to you! did you have a geep? >> brangham: even with the help of his struggles to wake up each day. >> i thought you would be dreaming about charlotte. right? wh >> brangham: liam has down syndrome, epilepsy and chronic lung disease. he's dealt with these since the day he was born. the 11-year-old lives in watford, england wit parents, gary and angelina, and big sister, laura. they have to be constantly vigilant for trouble-- like this seizure. >> lia liam! >> don't start, don't start. i don't want ts. not in the nasal cannula!

>> brangham: dozens of times a year, episodes like this will send liam to the hospital. he is always at risk of dying. liam's life, and the incredible care he gets, is a testament to the united kingdom's national health service, known as the n.h.s. residents of the u.k. pay taxes to the government that support the n.h.s. the government is then the single payer for health care. p s doctors and hospitals, and covers nearly all costs. for liam, that's all his medicines and hospitalizations. it pays for caregivers that come veral times a week. the n.h.s. even paid for this chair and standing frame to help him exerse. >> so, he's been up for about half an hour now, hasn't he? so that's ally good, liam! >> no one says, "well, that's going to cost too much, so we're not going too it." >> brangham: you've never heard those words? >> no. if we call an ambulanc an ambulance wi be here in five minutes to pick liam up, and take him to hospital.st a speciaeam will come out, pick him up, put him on their ventilators, take him to

intensive care, and an intensive care bed will cost 2,000 pounds. no one mentions the money, they just do what you need to do. without n.h.s. we would be bankrupt, and liam would probablye not with us. >> july 5, the new health care service starts. >> brangham: the national health service was built from the wreckage of world wa something of a gift from the government to a battered and impoverished nation, which welcomed it. >> okay, let me just try at the wrists, actually. >> brangham: and today, it's still considered the u.k's great equalizer. everyone-- regardless of profession or income-- has access to that system, from primary care, to, as needed, the full range of specialty services.in do you ever about how much things are going to cost when you come to the doctor? >> nope, it doesn't cross my mind. but the thing is, because i'm diabetic, in england, if youeet di, your prescriptio are free, so i don't have to pay for it anyway, so it doesn't cross my min >> brangham: despite those benefits, per person, the n.h.s.

spends less than half what we spend in the u.s including a lot less than we don administrative costs. and the n.h.s. generally gets better health outcomes than we do. life expectancy is longer here than in the u.s., in part, because people in the u.k. suffer much lower rates of diabetes and hypern.e asthma, it's hard to overstate just how beloved the national healthin service is herhe u.k. some people have referred to it y the closest thing this couns to a national religion. in fact, in 2018, when the service had its 70th anniversary, they had a huge celebration here at westminsr abbey. when the pandemic hit, a big part of the government's stay-at-home appeal was "protect the n.h.s." even so, disillusion has grown in recent years. in the rural town of dorchester, england, i met 77-year-old olive parfitt.

>> i was supposed to have the operation in august. and 14 hours before the eration, they canceled it. >> brangham: parfitt needs to have her knee replaced, but she's been on a surgical waiting list for nearly a year. she said she took four painkillers just to make this. short stro >> because i've walked so badly throw the other knee out.ng to >> brangham: oh, really? because you're compensating? >> yeah, so you wobble. which is not good at all. if i have a heart attack tomorrow, it's the best thing, they will take me in, they willo t. but when you've got what i call disabilities that are not life- threatening, they can't cope. i was told "six months," and that was a year ago. and now, last week, i was told it's a year. >> brangham: pfitt has been a strong supporter of the n.h.s. her whole life, but now, after a lifetime of paying in, she feels left out. >> suddenly when you get to a certain age and you want to get it back out again, it's not

theranymore. >> brangham: an estimated 10% of u.k. cizens pay out-of-pocket for supplemental insurance, in part to avoid long waits. and these delays also cause tens of thousands of residents seek some care abroad. for people like parfitt, it's spiriting. >> so, you just think nobody cares about me anymore. i'm an old girl. probably if you carry on long and then we won't have to worry with her. i do feel at you become visible. >> brangham: funding for the n.h.s. has been a constant problem, and a political flashpoint. different administrations fund the n.h.s. at different levels,c and the u.k.'st austerity measures have delayed upgrades, shortages worse.ffing this has also led to a series is scandals, as seen in th 2017 bbc report: emergency rooms rflowing, and in recent years, after being rushed to the hospital, hureds of thousands

of patients were stuck in ambulances for hours. >> there are always choices, and inevitably, and in every rehealthcare system, there always limitations on what the system can do. s >> brangha andrew dillon was, until this spring, the long-time head of the naonal institute for health and care a sweet acronym, but somee." conservatives in the u.s. liken its work to a "death panel." nice is one of the n.h.s.' crucial cost-control mechanisms, studying evidence to recommend which treatments androcedures give the most cost-effective benefit for patients. >> so, making sure tt we really understand the benefits of one optn over another, making sure we really understand the value for our money,ly particuln a publly- funded system that has to account for how money is used, is really important. >> brangham: sir andrew sayswa times for elective surgeries, like olive parfitts, have improved, but funds arenit in.

>> i love how open and explicita they aut the fact that there are always choices. >> brangham: dr. ashish jha studies health systems around the world. he's now the dean of brown university's school of public health, and he's been a collaborator on this series with us. >> is not like in the u.s. we're not making choices. we have tioning in the u.s. it's primarily based on your ability to pay and whether you have health insurance or not. so, the national health service ies to make explicit the rationing choices it's making. >> brangham: jha says the u.s. could learn a thing or two from a fully-funded version of this system. access for everyone. transparent cost controls. and people rarely going broke because they got sick. >> it's really clear to me that we could not do a wholesale adoption. where i think we g lost is the idea that somehow we could take the national health servicand just import it into america. and i think what's really lost is all that context.

the history behind the national health service, the meaning people assign it. we don't have any of that. but there is a lot we can learn. and there are strengths of the national service that we could absolutely do better with in the u.s. >> brangham: since we first filmed with them back in and in critical condition--ized this time, right in the middle of the u.k.'s worst stretch of the pandemic. but he's back home now, andin dog okay. >> the general ethos that i've experienced is that nobody has given up. and every time we have an episode, where it could go enther way, we come together and say "he hasn't gp, therefore we aren't giving up," and then the health pressionals go "good enoug for me." >> brangham: the murphys say the n.h.s. isn't perfect, but it's given them morprecious time with their son. for the pbs newshour, i'm william brangham in gltford, d.

>> woodruff: the united states is drawing down in iraq, from 5,200 troops to 3,500. it is part of a plan develop with the iraqi government, to hand over security responsibility to iraqi forces. but the country faces larger challenges that new, u.s.-backed prime minister is struggling to solve. nick schifrin reports. >> schifrin: in life, reham yaqob led a clarion cry of iraqi protest. she opened a women-only gym and advocated female empowerment. and she campaigned against iranian-backed militias. (chanting) in death, she was a symbol of those militias' rength, and of government weakness. >> ( translated ): we are still in shock.pe we didn't this. it is really a state of horror.

>> schifrin: her murder last month helped spark protests in r hometown, basra. demonstrators torched the local parliament, furious the government couldn't keep tm safe. (gunfire) iraqi security forces responded with le gunfire. in the last ten months, they've killed more than 500 protestorss those protesondemn not only insecurity, but also an economic calamity-- a lack of jobs, basic services, and smotring government corruption. >> ( translated ): each government comes, gives us he, and says it will honor our rights. but until now, even, our demands are still not being met. we don't have anything. >> schifrin: in basra, prime minister mustafa al-kadhimi fired the police and intelligence cefs, and ordered an investigation. >> ( translated ): this is a new gornment that is working to establish the prerequites of security. it aims to establish security and prevent ime. struggled to de-arm shia militias likely responsible for basra assassinatns. the u.s. is reducing tro levels andransferring bases to iraqi control, saying the iraqi

military's more capable. but, the main challenge is governce. kadami, who is u.s.-backed, has positioned himself as a reformer since becoming prime minister in may. c but he inheritses of security, economy, and leadership, all at once. and i'm joined now by ali erallawi, the finance minif iraq. mr. minister, welcome to the newshour. it seems like your job is massive. onexpert described it this way: "you ha to deregulate, de-corrupt and de-militia."s whate size of that challenge? >> well, it is actually quite al large nge, a very serious challenge. but we have to do what one must, given, you know, the circumstces of the country. >> schifrin: we saw this horrific blast in beirut recently, reallyaused by negligence and apathy of the government for many years. and some of the observers that i talked to about iraq fear that there's a paralysis inof the government, and that major changes aren't happening, just like in lebanon.

do you see the beirut explosion as some kind of caut tale? >> it is. i mean, it shows you what happens when-- when a state becomes hollowed out. we have not yet reached the same level, but we're not very far from it. we have to reassert the auority of the government, not to allow the state to become basically an instrumt of extraneous parties who then use it to-- to derive benefits from this hollowing out of the state, the diversion state resources to private means and for illicit purposes. if we don't take remedial measures soon, the processha migh gone too far to allow this to recover. we have to takanvery important very radical measures soon. >> schifrin: let's look at the igion and relations with iran. is it possible fn to play a constructive security role in iraq, when it funds anfs mitias that are loyal or

>> we think that iran's iran? involvement in the past and at certain-- certain times, has been problematic. and inasmuch as they aresp sible for sustaining some of the more out-of-control militias, i thk they will-- they will need to change and recalibrate their engagement to these-- to these ent i think that iran is beginning to recognize that the way that it interacts with, engages with iraq, through, sometimes, through these militias, needs to be changed. and i think they will move in that direction. >> schifrin: let's talk about the u.s. role in that effort. as you said, the prime minister talks about trying to reform those militias, lks often about improving government, reforming the bureaucr is the u.s. helping enough with

those efforts? >> the unid states has pulled ck from many areas in which it achas been active, had beeve before, and now it appears toen limit itgement to mainly fe area of providing support to the iraqi securices. we also would like to see the u.s. reaffirm or expand its engagement to include sectors which it's not as active now, as it was in the past. for exampl in the economy, helping us to reform, restructure. we're not really looking for additional financial tscontributions or investm from the u.s. government, but we want to see the united states to stand behind us in various to support us as we proceed along this path. >> schifrin: ali allawi, the finance minister of iraq. thank you very much, sir. >> thank you.

>> woodruff: the u.s. nsus is always a daunting challenge, now made more complicated by covid. amna nawaz explores the hurdles efacing the once-in-a-dec population count. >> nawaz: the deadline for counting the 2020 census is fast approaching. the census bureau announced thao it's endin-to-door outreach efforts at the end of september, a month earlier than planned. that's sent local organizersto scramble to reach hard- to-count communities. there are ndreds of billions of dollars in federal funds at stake, and pivotal congressional seats hang in the balance. w npr's hansi g has been reporting on the census, and hansi, welcome bache newshour. let's start with that timeline wand help people understat it is behind it. what drove that shortened timeline? moving it up from the end of october to the end of september. and what's the potential impact? >> well, this is a surprise move by the census bureau, who-- and

e bureau's director, steven dillingham h said this was following a directive from the commerce secretary, who oversees the census bureau. essentially, the tru administration has taken the position that they want to ont short counting for the 2020 census by a in order to meet a current legal deadline, which is by the end of this year, december 31. the latest state popul counts are due to the president. those are the counts used to redistribute seats in congress. what's intesng is trump issued a memo saying that he wants to adjust those counts once he gets them as president.e ants to exclude unthorized immigrants from those counts, even though the constitution says that those numbers should include every person living in the country. >> nawaz: so let me ask you about this new process the census bureau has had tose undertake, bec shortened timeline means they're crunch to reach communities they've during a pandemic.e reaching we've already seen a lag in response rates fcem a number of us officials we've spoken to as compared to 2010. i want to play for you a littles bit nd from one local

official we talked to who is seeing that kind of lag. this is michael thurman..o he's the cof dekalb county, georgia. he said it's a very diverse area. a big latin accent, a big immigrant community. he says he is worried about and severecount. take a listen to him. >> the best, clearest example as to why the census is so important, as to why every sident must and should be counted is, look no further thal the cares s that are being distributed across this nation. undercount in the census results in under-funding by one of the most challenging diseases we face. >> nawaz: nsi, that concern we heard from mr. thurmonho unique is that? >> you hear that a lot, from a lot of places around the country. we're in the middle of an unpredictable pandemic, a historic hurricane season. we don't know what these next few weeks are going to-- what's going to happen, and whether or not census bureau workers, doorknockers, were already out

there trying to reach those households that haveot participated yet-- what new challenges may be coming their way already? the census workers that i've been talking to, they say they're having trouble with the iphones that they've been issued to try to collect this information. they're seeing delays in beingai d and a lot of pressure to go out in the field while having not being adequately trained in these situations. there are a lot of challenges here and this shortened timeframe really just exacerbates all of them. >> nawaz: hansi, you mentioned something else i want to ask you about-- that was the trump administration's attempt to exclu the undocumented population from some of those counts for reapportionment purposes. their attempt to add at citizenship question to the census. that was eventually shot down by e supreme court. but we asked census managers about this around the country. i want to play for you a little bit of sound from nestor lopez. he's the census coordinator for hidalgo county, texas. to add that citizenship question is already having an impact. take a listen. >> even toda we still hear

people asking, "are they going to ask me about my citizenship?" status, because my family, or the people living in my household, we do have mixed status. soshat fear often just resu in inaction. >> nawaz: hansi, have you heard from others that the messaging alone, the attempt to add that question, could have some kind of chilling effect? >> i have. and you also hear from community groups who have spoken to some of the challengers of the apportionment memo thatum president recently issued. all of this rhetoric and all this talk about who should be included, who should not be included-- even though, again, suosed to be a count of every person living in the country-- there is a lot of concern that there is a lot of mixed messaging going around. and in fact, a lot of people censusddoes notde aat the 2020 question about citizenship status. it also does not include anything about a person' which is one reasopeople

say-- experts say, that president trump's call to exclude unauthorized immigrants from the enforcement count, that it's not possible and it's not legal. that there is no way to do that in legal way and in a practical way, because there's status.tion on immigration the census bureau is collecting people's information, not knowing what people' immigration status is. and so it's going to be really hard to try to exclude certain populations. >> nawaz: hansi, there is th other concern we've heard from a number of census officials across the country, and that isr that theiru is being politicized. have you heard something similar? >> i have heard there's concerns, and recently the trump administration appointed two new politil appointees, a political science ofessor who specializes in african politics; a new senior adviser to this new deputy director for policy. both of them, their qualifications are very unclear. and you have the american statiscal association, other professional associations, raising questions about what qualifies these individuals to take on top level policy roles at a time when the csus bureau is trying to finish once a decade head count. >> nawaz: hansi, before go, very briefly, with all of these concerns, is there any way thate

this wilow done right? have we reached a point of no return? >> it's really hard to say at this point. against the 2020 census.rs but one thing to keep in mindns here is the tution calls for a count once a decade. and there is a chance that whatever numbers are clected, the data collected os r the next wey be the data we all as a country have to live with for the next 10 year >> nawaz: that is npr's hansi lo wang covering the census bureau, joining us tonight. thank you so much, hansi. >>ou're welcome. >> oodruff: more than 2,000 newspapers have closed since 2004, and now, amid the p globdemic, local news is presses running. to keep the jeffrey brown recently spoke with margaret sullivan about this decline it's the focus of her new book,

"ghosting the news: lo journalism and the cris of american democracy." margaret sullivan, thank you for joining us. i want to start "gth the titlosting the news." even beyond the numbers, what do you see happening? >> we have a vrery seious situation with the local news eco-system in the united states, in which local news in many communitieis either withering or dying out all news deserts are springing up, and in some cases, newspapers, which have been very stalwart in their communities for many years have become justec ghosts or rs of what they once were. and citizens are not bei well-served in those communities by local news outlets anymore. >> your concern goes even further than that, and that gets tothe subtitle: "the crisis of american democracy." so what's the link bethween

loss of local news and the loss of a larger ideal nationally? >> you know, in order to function as citizens in our society and in our democracy, we need to have kind of a common basis of facts. t we don't hav agree about those facts or what to do about them, but we need to kind all be functioning from the same set of, you know, facts. and as local news goes away, we lose that in our communities. yes, we may still have wonderful sources of naonal news, but we hav to think about our local governments, our town councils, our city government, our school boards, all of thoseth gs. and as that dwindles, you know, citsizens become les politically engaged. they become more tribal in thway they vote. and all kinds of things happen that are not really good for a funngctio democracy. >> you know, we're at ati where you mentioned

facts, and we're at a time when facts themselves are questioned, right? where the whole idea of objective reporting is questigied. can yo me an example of what you think is being lost when we lose the local journalism? >> yes. in some ways it is challenging to describe it because when we don't have reporting taking place, it's that expression "you w don't knt you don't know." but if you just think of some of the great happened at the local level, i mean, for example, theayhe miamihe ld, a newspaper that is under siege right now,al brought the jeffrey epstein story, you know -- they resuscitated it and created the situation in which that came further to justice. if those reporters -- if julie k. brown of the miami herald hadn't bee doing her job, you know, justice may very well never have taken place

ther and then it can happen in a smaller way, too. you know, who is covering the school board? who is covering the council meeting? >> what is interesting, though, and as you write, happening, a lot of americans, maybe most americans, don't even realize that it is happening. and i wonder, you know, a lot of people -- mos people feel like they're getting plenty of news, right? i mean, in the ae of social media and theet intemore often the complaint is there is just too much information out there. how do you convince everyone that they're missing something? >> well, this is actually why i - big reason that because i read sme very good research that said that, you know, sev o 10 americans think that local news organizations ardoing swimmingly, and very few people are willing to, ora do, py for any form of local news. so i thought that it would be important to sort of sound thelarm bore we

lose this really important source that wefohave r being good citizens. it is a hard message to get across because, as you say, we have this fire hose of informaon coming at us, but very often that has to do with national politics, national and international news; it doesn't have to do with our community news, which comes from other sources. >> i know that you wrote about me of the solutions, and we can't go into all of them, but are there signs of hopehat you see? >> there really are. in many cases, there are digital start-up news organizations, i mean, when you think of the texas tribune in austin, and there are many of them around the country that have been -- that are really a ne model. theyt newspapers. they're maybe non-profits or digital sites that are really doing good work, d they're based not on adlyrtising, gener but on membership,

philanthropy, running events. they are really important. i dot thi they fully take the place of newspapers, and i think we need to do both. we need to shore up and support newspapers while also supporting these new measures that are going to take us in the future. >> all right. the book is "ghosting the news," margaret sullivan, thank you very much. >> thank yovery much forha ng me. >> woodruff: stay with us. to hear how tracking your kids digitally might expose them to more risk. but first, take a moment to hear from your local pbs st it's a chance to offer your support, which helps keep programsike ours on the air.

>> woodruff: now, we take a second look at paul solm's conversation with author and illustrator mo willems. this encore presentation is part of our arts and culture series, "canvas." >> reporter: now plang at the kennedy center in washington, d.c., a musical about a pigeon, who reallyreally, really wants to drive a bus... ♪ ♪ ...based on a book by one of america's best-selling authors. i'm a--e is mo willems. ( cheers and applause ) thank you. >> reporter: this latter-dayus dr. even spruced up the time-honored tv walking shot to cover our narration introducing him, letng his pign do the walking. mo willems has created over 50 books about characters from the boisterous birto anxious elephant and upbeat piggy, to abandoned knuffle bunny to nanette's baguette. willems is now the kennedy center's first education artist in residence, making music, art,

the pigeon musical. >> they're grown aduaying with puppets, yelling and screaming and running around.♪ ♪ hopefully, that's going engender not just laughs on stage, but wn the kids go home, the grownups will pick up a stuffed animal and pretend that it's a puppet and start to be silly again. i'm more interested in sparking me sort of creativity, some type of joy that happens after the show, after the performance, after you read the book. >> reporter: is that why the >> absolutely.o simple? every one of my characters isde gned so that a five-year-old can reproduce it. i want my books to be played, r not jud. the most important part of the book, the heart of the book, isa the audienceing to what i have splattered on the page. >> reporter: and, by audience, you don't just mean the kid. you mean the parent or, in my case, grandparent who's reading

it. >> >> reporter: acting it out, the voices. hey, can i drive the bus? >> no! >> i need you. you are my orchestra. >> reporter: right. "the happy bunny happy called time in happy land," you're going to read it. the happy bunny had a happy time. and you skip a couple pages... >> reporter: oh, god. >> ...and you're at the end. >> reporter: i have been there. >> right. we have all been the. but if i write something that jazzes you and get you to get the shame-ectomy, to startg yelld screaming and jumping up and down, and maybe suddenly, these boe magic. >> reporter: willems' work is silly, sure, but it also kids.res questions central to >> you're just dealing with fundamental things. why are we here? why are people nice? why aren't people nice? what can i do? can i drive a bus? >> reporter: "don't let the pigeon drive the bus!" was willems' fir booin 2003. >> so the pigeon was rejected by-- and i tend to exaggerate, so we will just cut thatumber in half-- 23 billion publishers. ughter ) and they said the exact same

thing as the publisher that took the book. they said it's unusual.th were all right. the question is, is unusual pejorative, or is it positive? >> reporter: so why did they al? say >> well, because it's terrifying doing something that hasn't been done before, right? i mean, it's a book all in dialogue with sort of a chicken- scratch drawing. the audience is told it has to yell "no" back at thbook. but we never tell them that they need to do it. also, it's a pigeon. it's a rat with wings. like, a children's book is supposed to be an adorable bear or a wonderful bunny, something that you want to hug and-- nobody wants to hug and squeeze a pigeon. >> reporter: thafirst book earned willems the first of three caldecotts, the highest prize in kid lit. >> the pigeon just arrived one day in a sketchbook, and literally the fit drawing i made of the pigeon, the pigeon said, why are you drawing other things? and he just-- he was a jerk from day one. >> reporter: but you didn't hear him say that? you...at >> we communthrough doodles, yes. this play was for ask,ation for

"who is this pigeon," which is also me asking, "who am i," which is why i need to be with very close friends who can tell me the honest truth. ♪ >> reporter: willems co-wrote the script with tom warburton, t friend since t were animators 25 years ago, and an admirer of willems' first film, m he man who yelled." >> an animated f me, mo willems. >> mo was very good at branding. he was already mo willems even before he was doing-- he was doing his picture books. >> reporter: in that film... >> yes. >> reporter: ...he must mentiona hi, i don't know how many times. >> not just in that film. in everything he does, he mentions his name over and over and over again. yes, yes. that was-- that was just the start. >> oh my goodness. a sheep. >> reporter: over o e years, the llaborated on the cartoon network's short-lived "sheep in the big ty."

>> and when we would look at the ratings, you would get a five, that was the nber of people watching it. it was an unpopular show. reporter: but their show "codename: kids next door" was a hit. willems went on to write for "sesame street," for which he won six emmys. the musical poses a different problem.yo >> how dtake a 40-page book about a pigeon not being into an hour-long l?and turn it >> reporter: stick to a goodst y for kids, says deborah wicks la puma, who wrote the music. c >> y't linger in a moment for the sake of lingering in the moment or soundi beautiful. you know, the kids want to know what the story is and what's happening. >> what if i don't like school? >> reporter: wilms' work has always kept the child's point of view front and center. >> childhood is inherently unpleasant. and nothing is to your scale, right? the chairs, these chairs, are saying... >> reporter: immense, yes. >> they're giant.

they're saying, you don't beng here. you really shouldn't even be sitting here, right? and everything is big, because you don't ewow. you're n and the grown-ups, they take you out of situations. like, if you're doing sothing, and you're having fun, some git pair of hands grabs yo and picks you up, and puts you in anoth room. and you get in trouble for complaining? he ♪ >> reporter: for pbs newshour, this is paul solman, a new friend of willems, an oldbo friend of his, in washington, d.c., and my house outside boston. >> woodruff: million of students return to school this week, many learning primarily online, or in a hybrid situation with

some in-person instruction. have loads of new data as a result. but what about the apps and websites parents deploy, ostensibly as a way of keeping kids safe?gh to law professor and internet privacy expert leah plunkett shares her "humble opinion" on why rents should step away from high-tech surveillance. >> the other day my nine-year- old-son tried to convince me r that he dy to walk to school by himself. his pitch? "put one of those smart watches on me you know where i am." my response? "no one should be spying on you, including dad and me." when our kids think the best way for them to get more freedom is for us, their parents, to use surveillance technology on them, we are fling them. idi'm the mom of two young i'm also a technology researcher and a law professor. with my parent brain, understand the appeal of tracking our kids. understand the risks if we go ahead and do it.

we can put a surveillance doorbell system on our front door to see when our kids come and go. we can put a smart watch on them with geo-fencing that alerts us when they go outside bounds we've set for them. we want to keep our kids safe, but actually, we're jeopardizinf their physicaly. if the technology we're using on them-- from smart watches to tracking apps on their phones and beyond-- isn't fully secure, their whereabouts could be tracked by people who might want to harthem. remember, kids who are survivors of abuse often know their abusers. we don't need to make it possible for potential predators in our networks or hackers to access the surveillance tech we put on our kids and stalk them. we could also be jeopardizing their future opportunities. when a technology monitors our kids' location, movements, or other behaviors, we typically have no ironclad guarantee that the information stays put. the tech provider could sell information about where our kidt go or how fay drive to a

data broker, for instance, which then might sell it to schools and employers. we know that college admissions are increasing informed by" big data" analytics. without ironclad guarantees deat a tech prowon't share our children's information, we should asse that they will, either now or in the future, in ways that we can't predict or control. when our children veer off course, we want it to stay in the family. your kids.hoose not to stalk you're unlikely to be the only ones watching. >> woodruff: and on the newshour online right now, we have collected ways to help survors of the devastation left by hurricane laura. you cafind that on our website, www.pbs.org/newshour. and that is the newshour for tonit. i'm judy woodruff. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you. please stay safe, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs

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♪el >>, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour & co." here's what's coming up. america in the age of trump. its leadership questioned, its values in doubt. i ask former republican senator and secretary of defense, william cohen, about this presidency and america's standing in the world. plus... >> i'm afraid i just need to say this -- the institution seems to be suffering from some kind of a collective >> what do we wanty. >> justice! >> police under scrutiny. seattle's formerf, chorm stamper, tells our michel martin about remorse and the reckoning. then, from the other side, we look at the psychology and science of protests with professor clifford stott who advises the british government. ♪