robert: amecarin carnage and american character. president trump: these are anarchistsnd bad people. burning or anythin. looting, robert: faceoff. over lawnd a order. in battleground state.es and prident trump roytals the mi community with alleged comments which he didies. prt trump: it was a totally fake story. i've done more for the military than almost anybody else. >> you know in your heart, you know in ur gut it's deplorable. it's deplorable. robert: next. announcer: this is "washington week."

funding is provided by -- >> when the world gets complicated a. lot goes through your mind.id withlity wealth management, a dedicated advisor can tailor advice and recommendations to your life. that's fidelity wealth management. announcer: additional funding is provided by the estate of arnold adams andoo and patricia yuen through the yuen fountion committed to bridging cultural differences in our communitiio, the corpor for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank u. on again, fromashington, moderator robert costa. robert: good evening. we begin tonight with a story on character that dominated the presal campaign on friday. now, speaking as a reporter who has coverednt presirump and before that, candidate trump, through too many ctroversies

to count, it is still unclear how this episode will affect the presidential race. but with less than two months before the election, i is certainly the kind of story that could draw interest from swing voters in the suburbs, in the industrial midwest who might weigh matters of conduct in this final act and perhaps even spark reckoning among some republicans. the atlantic's editor jeffrey goldberg reported late thursday that president trump once called u.s. soldiers injured or killed in war, quote, losers and suckers and made other offensive comments abou those who sve. now, a note on sourcing, gold berk cited four unnamed people with first-hand knowledge of the president's comments. the white house has called the report patentlye. fals "the washington post" and other outlets have confirmed the story since it was published. the president who received a medical deferment from vietnam has at times been sharply criticalf p.w.'s including

of the late senator john mccain icd once publ said i like people who weren't cap durd. here is what the president said thursday night. president trump: it's a disgrace that a magazine is able to write it and people really exist that uld have said that, they're low lifes and they're liars. and i would be willing to swear on anything that i nevesaid that about our fallen heroes. there is nobody that reec them more. robert: meanwhile, democratic nominee joe bidenesponded on friday. >> and always caution not to lose my temper. this may be as close as i've come in this campaign. just a marker of how deeply president trump and i disagree about the role the president of the united states of america. robertjoining us tonight to discus the politics of character and the latestro

wisconsin, are three top reporters. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times." nikole killion, correspondent for cbs news. and arlette saenz, political correspondent for cnn. peter, what is the context here terms of a president who in 2015 made those disparaging remarks about now late senator mccain to 2020 in this latest episode? peter: right. that's a good point. this is a president who has made one of the pilrs of his campaign his support for the military, his support for increased spending on the military and for pay raises andh so f and so for him, the idea that te he pri denigrates combat heroes as suckers and losers carries a great deal of political cost or political danger, right? he doesn't want to let that remat unrebutted there because it might undercut his considers to be aportant part of his constituency. now, he was already losing suppor ait looks likeng active duty troops according to

military times. they put out a poll this week saying that the president was actual trailing vice president -- former vice president biden 41% to 37% among active duty troops. and that reflects a lot of tension that we've seen in s recent monver the use of troops in terms of protests in american streets and the issue of confederate named army ses, the issue of clemency for accused and convicted warnd criminals so this is coming at a time when his relationship between the commander and chief and his military has already been pretty fraugh that's why i think you saw the furious reaction by the white house today trying to tamp down the story, trying to stamp it out and deny it. because they recogni it could do a lot of damage to a president just 60 days before an election. robert: arlette, we alsoaw a furious reaction from vice president biden, aemotional response in that news conference friday. you cover the biden campaign. you've been covering it closely for years. what did you learn about the campaign's response today and why the v.p. decided to say

what he said? jlette: well, i've cover biden's campai from the very beginning. and some time bore that. and this is the angriest that i've ever seen him. it's really -- he showed exactly why he believes there's a fundamental difference betwn himself andresident trump. you know, biden when he was vice president would carry a card in his jacket with the number of troops that were killed as a reminder of what he sees as the sacred obligation to the military and their families. y and he also - heard him talk in really, really personal terms about his own son beau biden who while he was attorney general in delaware served in the delaware national guard and went to iraq. sa bideng that his son was not a sucker for doing that, for -- that the servicemen and women who lt their lives alongside his son, that they we not losers. and so biden has that personal understanding of what it' le to -- to send a child to war. and he's also had to deal with

the military as in his role as vice president. and i think that this also just gets to the heart of part of the reason why biden got into this race. biden has said that were it not president trump being in office, he may not be running this time around. but hwas so upset and frustrated with the president's response to crlottesville, en he said that there were very fine people on both sides, and he just fundamentall disagrees with the division ev that he be that the president is sowing. so you saw that anger and that frustration as he said today that this just shows that they view the role of the presidency differently on the issue, especially when it comes to the military and biden's view. robert: niko, you spent a lot of time covering president trump. you went to west point to cover him earlier this summer when he spoke to cadets. what is the power of this story with the military community and what have yolearned in your reporting about the white house's response? nikole: well, i think to peter's point, you know, this run to the -- runs the risk of

undercutting the president's argume that he is a big supporter othe military, that he has helped to rebuilthe military. but yet we have seen some cracks whe it comes to his position versus how some service members actually view this president. back to that visit that he made to west point over the summer, the context of that visit was th it had happened not long after the shooting or the incident involving george floydo of se when we saw him fatally killed as aof police cer, put his knee on george floyd's neck. and so in the wake of that, of course, we saw these mass protests. and so thet president's vi to west point came against the backdrop of that and came against the backdrop of twt infamous photo op where the president went through lafayette square and stood in front of st. john's episcopalur

with a bible in hand. and so right bore he addressed cadets at that graduation ceremony over the summer, several west point alum and grads, penned a letter criticizing the role of defense officials in that event, and we saw joint chiefs of staff mark millie express regret who was in uniform at the time for being there and so that was one real divide between the this president and military leaders and of course now with the timing of this atlany,tic stor it runs the risk of doing the same again, certainly potentially of impacting the morale within the milary and as peter also referenced, you know, you have this poll that came out earlier this week by the military times showing the nearlyalf of respondents having an unfavorable view of this president and given that this is a se and a sector that the president relies upon, then it certainly could spell fouble for his political fure andtunes as we get closer to the election.

robert: such an important point, nikole. and peter, i want you to jump in on that. because as nikole laid out, this is not an isolated cident. this didn' come from left field. it's one of a series of flash points oveer past 3 1/2 years. and peter, you and your wife, susan asser, at the new yorker, are coming out with a book later this month. about former secretary of state james baker and you're as plugged in to thasc national ter establishment as any reporter i know. so i have to ask you after listening to what nikole said, why aren't the sources for jeffrey gdberg speaking out, the possible former generals or former officials, why do they stay quiet at this critical peter: well, that's a great question. one we spent a lot of time i think you're right. that there has been great truffings among the generals who have served president trump and those who have just watched from the outside. that he respects the military the way that previous

he sees them, military as another political tool or that he doesn't respect service the way he treated john mccain, i think, continues to rankle i ink a lot of uniform service, particularly the officers. but why they haven't come out is a goodn. quest i think there are some -- particularly those who served president trump who tell themselves that it's wrong for generals to participate in the political et lection season, t to come out and be an acto the campaign stage in effect is -- unbecominfor somebody that spent a career in the military. and yet of course, you know, a lot of speculation today about who these sources could have been and a lot of peothle who think know and it -- may be better off if the persons would simply come forward and be open about it so we can evaluate the information and give iu the due stiny that it deserves. white house continues to have these denials and the atlantic

stands by its story. arlette, when you're talking to top biden campaign officials, do s theyee this particular story as something that will change the ection, actually peel off some suburban voters, some moderate republicans? or is it just another hdedline inhe biden orbit? arlette: well, i think that biden and his aides have frustration with these words and typens of comments beig attributed to the president of the united states. and ultimately, what they are hoping to do is draw this distinction t comes to character and having the president reportedly making these types of comments, that is something that biden just would never see himself doing when it comes to the military. so as they are going forward pa into the cgn, and really from the beginning, they have racter.is all about cha biden saying that he's engaging in this battle for the sou of t the nation, t he fundamentally disagrees with he direction, the divisio

that the president has sown and the biden campaign believes that's something that will tire withy oters. that tnt to see more stability perhaps ihen president, someone with a morsteady hand as their argunt for joe biden. and someone who has got respect for the militarynd has shown it throughout his career as a politician and also j personally on that level with wife, jill biden, was deeply involved with military families when she was second lady. so these are all, you know, talking points that they can kind of push forward as they have theurnt president reportedly making these denigrating comments aboutme servicers. robert: arlette, your comments about vots being tir, perhaps exhausted, suburban voters, they're the group we're watching o this story. and we'll keep watching them. and they're also one of the groups we're all watching as reckoning in this country. the latest front, this week, is also a key political

battleground. wisconsin. both president trump and vicede president visited there this wk. president trump had a searin law and order message. president trump: violent mobs demolished or damaged at least 25 businesses, burned down public buildings, and threw brirks at police officers. these are not acts of peaceful protests but really domestic terror. robert: vice president biden met with theacamily ofb blake, a black man shot by a in kenosha. offi >> if i get elec i promise you there will be a national commission on policing out of the h whise where i'll bring everyone to the table. robert: nikole, was wisconsin this week ath microcosm o campaign and where this nation nikole: well, i think it certainly is a microcosm of the campaign. i don't know if it is where the nation currently stands. i mean, i think to me what

struck most searingly is that this really is as we pointed outheven wit military story, a tale of two campaigns, candidates. o differ and so i think the president has been very clear that he is going to continue with this law and order message. and biden on the other hand of course is trying to paint himself as the more empathetic figure as someone who is a uniter, not a divider, so we saw in his visit, you know, him sitting downh members of the community, and hearing some of the pain that many in the african-american community feel versus the president who took more of the o approa sitting down with law enforcement. and certainly we need to bring all of those communities together and so in the context t of this ss week, you know, i think you saw echoes of that, too, with the conventions, with the republican national convention, we did not even hear the president mention jab blake's name. whereas during the democratic members of the floyd family

speak at that convention and so ain, you're just seeing this -- these two different approaches. as far as the president is concerned, while certainly the law and order message may resonate with his bas, i think many within the rican-american community want see more empathy from this president. and really see him address the elephant in the room which is systemic racism wch underlies this more broader problem as opposed to simply painting protesters as agitators, as looters, when the bulk of these protests have been peaceful and certainly the president and the white house have acknowledged that. ' but really hav gotten under the hood of the car to talk ose specifically about issues of race. it didn't even really come up during the convention. and so that is not lost on many african-americ voters. that being said, we certainly know many in the trump campaign feel that they will do well with black voters, and you nk know, they t the president has a record that speaks to that, you know, biden, on the other hand, i think really wants to target members of the

african-american community, certainly that is a key part of his coalition, that he and currently he leads with that demographic and certainly one that he feels will be instrumental, i think, his campaign going forward. robert: arlet j, can yp in on that? george packer wrote a story for the atlantic this week about how biden could possibly lose if he doesn't have a forcefun messageaw and order. how are they trying to balance the appeal to white votersrb in the suwho may like that law and order message with biden's own calls for racial reform and reconci wation? arlettl, i think that the biden campaign was feeling a lot of pressure to hav him more forfully speak out against some of the violence that was s -n in th the protests after the president and his allies last week spent the week trying to paint biden as soft o crime and suggest that americans wouldn't be safe under president trump's america. the week i washere in tart of

pittsburgh when he delivered a fiery speech. and he tried to turn the tables right back on president trump have played out in some tha protests across the country, ng that's happender president trump's watch. and he's also trying to bring in the larger picture of safety in america when it comes to thei coros pandemic. when it comes to forign policy. he believes that the president has failed on those issts. and rigow, you see from biden at the start of the week, he denounced theen vi on all sides. he condemned rioting and looting and setting things on fire, saying that that is not part of protesting. that that isss lawless but then you also see him reaching out tthat community, that is now grappling with that police shooting. talking about those issues of racial justice. this is something that weaw biden do also after the death of george floyd. robert: arlette -- arlette: biden went dn to uston and met priflet with the family and held a listening session back in delaware trying

to hear concerns fmmm coity leaders, african-american leaders, and that's something he did again yesterday in kenosha. i was there. you could still see rght before biden arrived, there were several dozen protesters who showed uphe outside church still very frustheted withacial injustice that they have seen occur in this case. and they want to see more action from the former vice president. so you're seeing him kind of skirting this line where he does -- he has -- d tounced violence that has occurred. but then also trying to speak to thosessues of racial justice that so many people are concerned about. robert: and peter, what does this all mean for the state of play in wisconsin? a state president trump won b just 22,000 votes in 2016, is is all about r hving up turnout in the mostly white yeel suburbs? peter: i think that'sot a of it obviously a critical state. the president wants desperately

to hold on to i and he manages to hold on to even one of those midwestern states and then doesn't lose in say flida and arizona, he has a much better shot at -- holding on to the electoral college majority that he had from last time. popular vote. sn't win the so yeah, wisconsin is a key part of that. and i was talking today with en somebody who out with him to kenosha this week and i wasn't on th trip but the c said he wrged up by the reception he got. he felt like he waselcomed there. that people were glad to see thim him there that they were lined up on the streets and said there were protests and people who didn't want him there and ople thought it was wrong for sthim to come, he would inflame the situation and he didn't see that. so whatou are seeing is esident out there who wants to get back out on the campaign trail.as i was with him night in latrobe, pennsylvania. wants to have these big rallies and gets a charge out of it and his schedule tells the tale. going to north carolina once this week, once next week and pennsylvania, wisconsin. i think you'll see him obviously elsewhere in the and arizona asobably in florida

so it's a president who understands that he has some making up to do in the polls. but feelsa confident t this law and order issue is a way to get traction even ifhe polls haven't yet shown that it's working for him. robert: nikole, we havo about 30 ss left. you've also done some reporting on the political map. s which state you looking at in terms of where the trump campaign and the biden campaign are foced? kole: well, i think it's important to go back to those three critical states back in 2016 which made the dference for president trump which is michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. now, again, i think the trump campaign doesn't necessarily feel that i has t win all three of those again. that it can still succeed and surpass 270 without all three. the three states to watch. we are seeing the trump campaign increingly spend more time in pennsylvania which to me says out of the three, that certainly is one of the ones they're focused on the most. robert: arlette, would you add anything to that? notebook? pen your o

arlette: yeah. i mean i think that wisconsin and pennsylvania are going t behuge. biden, you know, making his first reals campaign it outside of the delaware-pennsylvania area there yalesterday. due to this moment that the city is -- and state is in rit now due to jacob blake. but i think those ates, i think arizona and florida are something that the biden campaign are also hoping to bring over to their corner. robert: well, that's all the time we ha. tonig it is a pledge wk here at pbs. so we're a littthle shorte usual. peter baker, nikoonle kil arlette saenz, thanks so much for being here. really enjoyed this discussion. appreciate you time on friday night. and thank you all for joining us. we will keep taking you as close togn this camp as we can in the final weeks, the finaleyeeks. e upon us. our conversation will continue on our extra. we'll lk about thatig joe kennedy, ed markey primary in the bay state of massachusetts this week find it on our social media and

on our website. i'mst robert good night from washington. [captioning performed by the national captioning stitute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by -- >> when the world gets complicated, a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity wealth nagement, a dedicated advisor can tailor advice and recommendations to your li. that's fidelity wealth management. announcer: additional funding is provided by the estate of arnold adams and koo and patricia yuen flew the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural

differences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting and by ri cotions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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