tonight on nekqed room, we dive into the state of climate change denial is a man america, and the readiness of green solutions to take over for fossil fuels. berkeley and yale share their research with us. across california businesses are begioping to , and economists give us a look at what the change means for the state, while business owners show the struggle holding onto his james in these uncertain times. welcome to kqed newsroom, i am point more than 18,000 firefighters are fighting 27 places that ed have already bu3.4 million acres in the state. the and you scu and lightning x fire compare so pretty, but

others are still burning strong. governor newsome has repeatedly linked the while visors with the changing climate, they spoke about the fire at length with presidt trump, in sacramento on monday for the president had threatened to cut off federal funding to california for poor forest management with other issues. during his monday visit the president refused to acknowledge that climate change is playing a role in the tter and more intense wildfires. a denial at odds with public opinion about climate change. hampton, connecticut, is a professor at the yale school of environment and research scientist at the yale program on climate change communication. journey by skype from oakland's dan cannon, and director of the renewable and appropriate energy lab, thank you both for joining us. jennifer i want to start with you, pr ident trump didn acknowledge that impact of climate change on the fires, instead saying it will start getting coer, just to watch. your data would indicate that he is not in step with the rest

of americans when he insists there is no climate change. >> that's right, 72% of that public believe that climate change is real, th it is happening that our planet is getting warmer. 72%, and over 60% understand that it fuis fossis and g human activities cause wormy. he is out of step with the public. >> those attitudes have evolved over the 10 u years that have been conducting these poles. tell us about that change. >> yes, they give been ch a lot. they didn't change in the beginning of this decade but for the past five years pengle are becomore and more alarms. in fact, we have identified six different publics puamong the generaic, and about more than half of americans are now either concerned alarmed. those are the people most engaged in this issue, so that is over half the public now. >> dan, what do you think about adership and the dismissal of

climate change, and this sentiment among americans, the belief th climate chanis a problem. >> it is a very nical view from the white house, as jennifer highlights, the data is very clear. re the public gnizes the difference, we know the difference between climate and weather, it is not that hard for most of . but thwhite house seems to treat this as an opportunity to divide, not unite the country. >> dan, yohave beenon the intergovernmental panel for climate change for more than 20 years, you have a wording on climate change. d does the speed scale of the wildfires and other weather events in our nation over the past monk , shu? >> no, sadly it doesn't shock me at all, this is entirely consistent with the forecast. we are seeing not only the but last yearin australia a, there were fires before that in siberia, this is all exactly in keeping with what the models

have been saying now for almost >> jennifer can you share with us a little of howthe oil and gas companies are able to exert influence, in the white house and on capitol hill. de in to continue our dependence on fossil fuels? >> well, we know that while the public overwhelmingly lieves that this is a al problem, and overwhelmingly supports action on it, we know that in fact, in congress and the whites house, there a disproportionate number of people who still deny climate change and deny the reality. a lot of that due the influence of the oil and gas lobbyists. on congress and the white house. in many cases, in fact amon the public, only 20% of people actually deny that climate change is real or they think if it is happening, then it is caused by natural cycles or the sun or something like that.

it is on20% among the public as a whole. but when you look at congress and the white house, it is, it feels like more than half, or at thast. an is due to the influence of industry and people who want to maintain the status quo, and keepthings the way they are without really thinking about the public health anour safety. >> dan, california currently gets more than 30% of its energy rom renewable sources, like win we have a goal of doubling that by 2030. but how much of a chcage can fornia have when it comes to climate change? how much of an impact can we have when we don'have the federal leadership that will help us get there as a nation? >> actuay california exerts huge influence, we were the first state to pass a 100% clean energy target for 2025, and now washington state, hawaiinew york, annew mexico have all followed us with theiown versions of the same thing. so there is a domestic impact, we see it in the positions of

the democratic candidates, and in fact, e scientific consensus is over 97% of scientists see this as a very clear, human-caused climate emergency. so california's stance, is in is entirely consistent with the science. and it is entirely consistent wi california's out-of-state policies, we have clean energy trade agreements with china, we partner with european governments, where their position is much more aligned between the policies, the econthic investment of science, just like we're doing here. so california is 60% clean energy go by 2030, is one ctat we exwe will actually hit that early and california is now working to how we will change that 2045 goal of 100% clean energy, potentially moving that earlier. >> jenniferabtell us t the

regional differences you see in your polling, and how that plays into american attudes on climate change. >> there is a lot of regional variability, in ct. what yothink of as blue states along the coast, tended to have a lot more support, ands unnding of climate changes, and policies like gulating carbon dioxid a pollutant. like reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. but, in the middle of the country, in the midwest for example, support is lower. as you might expect, and vamore consve. we also know that when you look at the ethnic differences, tso countit have a lot of casinos for example, in southern texas, new mexico, and arizona, support for climate action is really high in those counties. more than any other racial ethnic groups worry about climate change because they are particularly vulnerable. what about african-american communities who happened also disproportionately impacted by

environmental injustices? >> ery similar, also very concerned about climate change, the numbers aren't as high as the latino population, and there may be cultural differences, at work there, and geograrkic differences at wo. but african-american communities also are more vulnerable, then communities that tend to be more white and wealthy. and while across the board you find that many americans don't think that they will be personally affchted by climate ge, you will nonetheless see it might be 50 or 60% of latinos or african-amer. ans who believe th whereas white people will tend to give much lower numbers, wind much lower percentages. >> and dan, are there energy solutions, technology solutions that can address some ofra this al injustice and questions about environmental justice that we see across the nation? >> yes, there really are. in fact the movement to install solar on homes and apartment buildings, and businesses, is one that can really be a source

of equity, there is a number ro not groups in the country that focus on energy r efficiency, and sor low income communities. and the project we most recently did touse national census data, we found quite sadly, that the esawarand the opportunity to install solar was dramatically higher in white majority neighborhoods. then it was in line x communities. where it is 30% less ke a and 70% less likely in african-american communities, which means while the community technology there, we have not figured out how to do information dissemination and financing to make it available for lower income communities. >>'s right, you certainly think anout it as expensive insulation, expensive home item if you are putting solar panels on your roof. for many years, rii am s, the green energy solutions have been become a nascent technology, they haven't been

ready to step up and take over for oil and gas. do you feel that we are at an inflection point now? are they read >> yeah, we have hit that point a couple years ago, in 2019, 2018, the most commonly deployed energy technologies were, worldwide, were solar and wind. their prices are now gas, the local, andon par with old legacy thhydro plants. means installing these low income comms, is a nt and much more functional of financing. businesses, affluent communities, can afford the upfront cost. and then reap long-term benefits. it is not just about solar and wind, it is actually triving el vehicles is much cheaper per mile traveled, then a gas powered car. when electric vehicles were

more expensive than gas cars that was a barrier, but now at they are roughly on par, across income levels, this is a technology we can deploy. the trick is, we need to get charges in place because many low income people don't have a y driver, can't do charging at him, they need it to be available publicly like in downtown areas or at work so thesare areas where municipal and federal government can absolutely use clean energy as a tool for climate and racial justice and equity. >> those seem to be hopeful steps, jennifer i am curious, in your studies, do people feel hope when it comes to quthe tion of climate change? do they feel that they have the power to make a difference? or, is there ally a sense of despair? >> we, i think peoplefeel a lot of despair. and in fact they have a lot of education we need to do to help people understand the kinds of solutions, that the technology exists. because people don't really know what the solutions are.

theyknow that can limit carbon dioxide emissions, and they support broad policies plividing tax rebates, if you want to install solar panels or by electr vehicles. everyone supports whether you are democrat or republican, no matter where you live you support transioning to renewablenergy. at the federal or national level, even though we are not investing in that research at but a lot of people don't know what the solutions are. so we need to do better, as a community, to address those gaps. >> science seems to be there, the public opinion seems to be there, why are you still feeling science is under attack? >> said that we are seeing it, we have a director of the epa who has me out against some of the latest science. we see cuent appointments to the department of the interior, department of energy, for either just simply being wrong, or they are paid off by t industry to come up with these

statements that deny the science. and i think what is saddest to me, i am the child of a historian. is that the u.s. used to be wha countre we saw problems, we invested in you science technology, policy, opportunities for justice. terms of government action in the private sector. and for whateversad reason, we currently have a government that seems to be turning away from that scientific u.s. leadership, ansentially away from the well-being of their own children. >> professor dan cannon, per suppressor jenna, thank you. to learn more about public opinions on climate change, including where you live, there's a climate communication.yale.edu. some bay area businesses are eagerly opening their doors and are rollinout the welcome mat to customers.

on a limited basis. san franciscans enjoyed exthcising and getting r nails done indoors once again. marin, napa, santa clarsaand francisco have all moved one step up from the heaviest restrictions. shifting from purple to red, on s e states coronaviacking map. but even so, many small business owners worry if they can survive. while complying with new merule and ures to keep staff and customers say. her name it out by sky from san francisco is joe talmage, the owner of world gym san francisco. joe usings were joining >> thank you, thank you for having me. >> you have had this gem for 30 years, and you have been through several ups and downs. tell me how the coronavirus pandemic has impacted your business, in mparison to other challenges you faced. >> i think with the coronavirus, in particular, i belie it caused, it caught everyone by surprise. the shutdown came to us march 1 i believe. we had no indication prior to that that there would be any

sort of forced shutdown. so it was quite sudden and surprising. and just stopped as oudead in tracks. >> you thought it would also be for only a few weeks, at the most? yeah, exactly. we thought it w to be maybe two weeks, a month at the most. we really haplnot conted a long extended shutdown. nor were we prepared for that. >> so how much of a financial hit has this been for you, since you had to shut down in march? >> well, it has been pretty severe, and 're not even sure if we are going to come out of that hole in the long-term. buwe did mention survive, we lost probably close to $1 million in the past six months a business, and that is threal money was able to pay our employees, we have 50+ employees. s, service vendwe had to drop

a lot of our services we had in the gym, it was quite, quite impactful from a financial loss. >> and, did you need to lay off employees th >> yes we did, we laid up pretty much our entire staff, with the exception of our general manager, and other than ulthat, we really 't hang onto anyone. >> were paycheck protection loans hopeful to you? >> they were somewhat helpful, although they came in really late for usin particular, we applied for them but that was sort of challenging gauntlet to go through, the process of applying for the pp p. when he were rules and regulations in which you had to use those funds. and it dn't make a lot of sense as a small business owner to really be impactful in a way. >> did it help you get through this time or do you feel like that really wasn't the benefit you were hoping for? >> no, it didn't. on a scale of 1 to 10 it was

maybe two. bein terms of g helpful. >> well how have you managed to hold on until you were able to reopen this week? >> well, we, our businesses came to a hard stop, we operations. hut down one our biggest challenges was, d is, and continues to be, our landlord. to be able to negotiate a long- we are obligated to pay, and at i think a lot of businesses that is their biggest challenge right now. is it to come up with a workable plan, with the le landlords, to be to stay in business. >>joe, it must have come as welcome news to know you would be able to reopen in a limited capacity, tell me about your operations now. how have they changed since before the pandemic? >> the biggest change has been only being able to erate at 10% capacity. that is really significantly limiting our ability to serve, prior pre-covewe were seeing about 800 visits a day, 800 people a day coming into our

gym. now, with the capacity limits, it has been very, very slow coming back. il people are nervous about returning to jim's, or out in general. so seeing that low volume of people coming in, is, it has been the biggest change. >> i am curious, what kind of financial assistance would help you, from states or federal officials? to keep your business or other small businesses afloat? >> it would be, we applied for emergency disaster relief, with the spa but we have not yet go en funding for that. but we are in the process of hoping to get some sort of financial aid with the disaster relief program, that the sba offers. low interest rates and good repayment terms. if we could get good financing in place and that it would be fu

tremendously heto us. to be able to get caught back up with the six months of no revenue, really. ag >> joe ta with world gym in san francisco, joe, thanks for your time. >> of course, my please, thank you. meanwhile, on capitol hill, cal speaker nancy pelosi said wi the house remain in session to hammer out the new economic relief bill that would include federal unappointed nefits which ended july. but some question whether a massive relief bill is needed well on tracto recovery. is that is the opinion our next guest, joining me now by sky from los angeles, chs barber, the founder of beacon economics. so chris, let's talk first of all about why you think a new round of federal belay funding is not need. le >> well, s be clear about what the first one actually has done. and what it has done for the future of theconomy right now. if you look around at the

numbers, and where that money, that almost $3 trillion over the last three months, much of that money is still there. it hasn't been spent, because the big ouproblem in economy is you can to spend money. what does that mean? commercial bankr g deposits, ample, are about 2 1/2 trillion dollars higher today than they were six months ago. we have never se that kind of fantastic increase in overall just cash, waiting to be spen what thatmeans, of course, is there is plenty of dry powder to get the economy going which get fucontrol over this virus. from my perspective, the best way of getting the economy rolling again is to get this virus out of the way. >> there are certainly many people who are still hurting in this econy, yelp just released the latest economic impact report, and 60% are nearly 100,000 businesses are not going to be reopenin. national can you talk us through what

that impact of the virus is on small and large businesses in california? >> i ve heard thnumber as well, and here is the problem, i have no idea what it means. we have nocontext, wedon't know what that looked like in 2019, 2018, small businesses to turn over faster than any other kind of business. in our economy there are constantly coming in and leaving. there is no doubt that this pandemic had a severe influence on small businesses, particularly the hospitality sector. small tels, small restaurants, the facilities closed down by the various government mandates. we know t, at the same time, remember that with all that money sitting there, that has been put away becae of all the stimulus, you know they will have business once we get the virus out of the way. wi some businesse not necessarily be open, i understand th there is no doubt about it. but at the same time we have new numbers from the census on business applications, and right now business applications

in california are at a 20 . ar hi so even some businesses seem to be labor, other businesses are popping up in their place. overall, we arclearly on the road to recovery, we just have to get, yet again,control the virus. >> a man i feel that we do everyone, especially at as they arruggling in the state. i would like to touch base on some analysis onomics, just shared beacon yesterday. it states that despite the relatively vigorous job recovery of the state overall, the states major metroswill remain behind their previous growth trend, can you explain what this means and the difference bd ween the coastal land region when it comes to recovery? >> right, absolutely. the first thing to keep in mind this that at beginning of this we saw fantastic increase of unemployment rates. just to to a level we haven't seen in a very, very long time. now that unemployment rate was driven by temporary layoffs, most of those a temporary laid off people are actually going back to work. but at the same time, some are

not. tume of those ed into permanent job losses. those are the ones we worry about, and yeah, it is rising a little faster california than in other places. why california? well, remember, the sectors that are being hurt are wrapped around tourism inparticular, and california, of course, because of our beautiful weather and the great things to do, is, has a tremendous amount of tourism. when you look around the state,n the highest ployment rate, the worst decline in jobs, have been in tourist centers, orange county, san francisco, places that pie not lly cyclical because they have also had so many high-end centers. contrast that with the inland empire which ha actually se the lowest overall decline in number of jobs of any major economy in the state. again, that is not a heavy tourism sector. like palm springs and temecula. >> we just talked with a small business owner in san francisco who e said that ppp load that

he received was too little, too late. can you tell me, is there any e data out thabout how effective the program has been nationally? >> no, because those kind of studies tried to fire out the effectiveness of programs, it numbers, we have to have good data and sadly at this point in time it is hard to figure out what it has specifically done. but, with that in mind, i will h tell you . again, it is not so much that it may have done too much over the last couple of months, ratheratit is whit has done in order to get us prepared for the next round of economic growth. go back to what i was talking about in terms of commercial deposit, the fact that households have wa tuckedabout 1 1/2 trillion dollars in the last six months because they are unable to spend money on alothe things. that money is sitting there and will help the economy get up and going, when it is regulatians go away. the regulations will go away when we get control of the virus. >> do you want to go back to

the zone implemented was for a moment, focause in caia we were below 5% before the pandemic, that we got up, and now we are still pretty high, we are 11.4% which is above the nations average, of about a percent. at so, and the same time, you are firmly convinced that we are through the recession and we are on d a recovery, it is a v-shaped recovery, can you explain why you believe that? >> well, it is actu lydata. you can take the monthly gdp numbers, and create monty estimates. if you take it the number, very interesting because this is absolutely the deepest recession in u.s. economic history. it is also the shortest. the peak of economic activity was february, that was basically the last month before the trough ofeconomic activity occurred in april. since april, if you look at anything from consumer spending to industrial activity, to imrts, all the major metrics of economic activity, they have zoomed

foard. in fact, ifings stayed the same in august and september as they were in july, we are seing up for 27 to 28% growth rate in the third quarter of the year. it will not be li that, itis actually growing faster than that, we are predicting about a 35-36% growth rate for the third quarter. that basically makes up for most of whatwas lostin the second quarter of the year. the unemployment numbers are lagging, they always do. we have two kinds of unemployment and the downturn, ofthe first wave unemployment were people who were on temporary layoff. those folks are going back ndto workapidly. that accounts for the sharp decline in employment. eo however,e are losing their jobs permanently, and that of course is causing some ofhe underlying long-term unemployment to rise. that will be there and it will take about a year to have to get over. >> chris darby with economics, thank you very mh. >> my pleasure. >> you can find more of our coverage at kqed.org. i am point david clemens, you can reach me on facebook, and

instagram. 2020 has noteen an easy year, but the economic setbacks, an with the wildfires it is easy to fill some level of despair. we will bring you some practice at the end of i our show, look at something beautiful in our community. enjoy these socially hearts, which have been painted in several san francisco parts by the parks alliance, a reminder of loand caring in this difficult season. from all of us here at kqed, thanks r watching, good night.

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