robert: supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg has died. our panel will discuss nex >> with fidelity wealth management, a dedicated advisor can taylor recommendations to >> additional funding is provided by -- the estate of arnold adams and patricia and koo yuen, through the yuen foundation. the corporation of public broadcasting and by crick from the viewers like you.

once again from washington, moderator robert costa. evrobert: gooing. breaking news tonight. supreme cour justice ruth bader ginsburg has died at the age of 87. was an icon on the court. vacancy on aves a presidential election. but just days before herth d ginsburg dictate this would statement to her gnddaughter -- "my most fervent swish tt i will not be replaced until a new president is installed." and joining us tonight to discuss thisr, mat this death of supreme court justice ruth bader gineeurg are thr of washington's top reporters bob woodward, pulitzer prize winning associate editor for the "washington post" and author of "rage." margaret brennan, moderator of "face the nation" a senior foreign affairs correspondents for cbs news, and alexi

mccammond, political reporter for axios. welcome t all three of you tonight. i appreciate you being here. we're all die justing the ns as reporters. bob, we will bin with you. you've written a book on the supreme court, along before "rage" in 1979d cal "the brethren." oop about the supreme court. what is e sfanlsf her depth tonight and what is her legacy? bob: well, first her death, tragic and it's size mick politically because if trump is able to n get a nominee through the senate,hich i -- there's going to be a struggle like we have never seen perhaps for one of these nominations and give the conservatives a solid

fifth vote because roberts, the chief justice, as a we know, everyone who studied this realizes he swings one way and the other. he goes back andor and really decides many, many of the crucial cases 5-4. well, if the liberal ginsburg gets replaced by conservative, then there would be six normal that will -- nominal conservatives on the courts and five solid oneles and we could legal system, statutes, of our constitutional lawn a way that will define therump era in another way and,co ose, this is what trump ran on.

he has put out his list of potential nominees. he is going toide this harmed and we're in for a mtiple political hurricane with thes vioing on, with the economy, with the racial struggle, and now this -- i don't know. actually, how we'reng g to report it almost hour by hour as the struggle will intensify, i believe. robert:ga mt, what's your latest reporting on how the white house will handle this? senator mcconnell, who has said in previous weeks that he would move forward with a nomination if there is vacancy. what are you hearing tonight and what is your take on justice beginning -- ginsburg's legacy?

margaret: she was strong by mighty. volleys but only the second woman to serve on the supreme court and she was annd icon a barrier breakler. r specificallly fought hard on issues of trying to level the playin field on issues for women in this country. there was a featu m filme about her life called "on the basis of sex." they sell dolls andor t-shirts little girls with the no morris -- notorious r.b.g. she truthful is an icon in her own right. putting that aside, everything bob just laid out. it is going to get nasty. i've been watching all the news reports come in within it doesn't yet appear the president has been informed because he's speaking about the supreme court but has not yet renchingsed the passing of the justice. instean she the campaign trail talking about his pla for who he would put on a future court.

's talking about senator ted he's talking about republican allies of his and this is part of what job bob wasesturing to is that will become another political cudge and you willt is another very useful tool for the president. for perhaps the very fewho have not made up their mind or the few wavering -- wavering questioning whether or not next support the new president trump, the issues of conservatives are really encamslated of who sits there. it is a motivator for voters, we know that that is why the presidents talking about it tonight and weec do e the president to move ahead and try to replace in what ba record period of time -- we're only 40-somethy from the the election here and it may not be easy for mitchcconnell,

even know he does hold the republican majority seat and could bring something up in congress. you have senators like lisa murkowski ho -- who has said on the election previously that sh feels it is inappropriate until the electionas past us. this is going to bring up all the bad bloomeds from happened -- what happened with president obama's normal theme me rick garland because thenenors mcconnell refuse to the bring it forward saying it was just too close to the election. well, mcconnell holds the keys still and withhe republicans controlling the senate and white house, we can move these wheels forward there a way he wasn't able to last time around. robert: alexically -- alexi, you covered the presidential campaign. you and republin strategists all

the time. justice ginsburg, such a popular figure amora dem. how are they responding tonight, especially inside joe biden's campaign? alexi: thank you so much for having me, b, and it's so good to be with all of you tonight. this is atty sad night. as has been stated, justice ginsburg was an icon and a hero, espely among liberals. th t-shirts, the siphons, t sayings. she ref this would larger than life fure,ially in the year 2020 ahead of this election, which is leading to a loof political polarization. as this leger than l figure, a person they could put their homes and dreams into and now without her, of course, this is going to lead to a really ugly, hilledse political battle in the senate but that's going to have ramifications presidential election. there are a lot of fovegs within the democratic party whose first

choice wasn't joe biden. a lot of people supported senator bernie sanders in the imary and they're saying to each other online and in person and differents that a jolt vote for joe biden is a vote for ruth bader ginsburg's replacements on the court. that was a way to gin up excitement from different even before before ruth bader , beginnings berg's passing this evening. i think progressives will engine urage each other to support someone they're not excited about. now the biden campaign of course es any numbeof their in-person remarks to talk about the news a the d the beginning. biden often use that is events to talk about president trump and his mishanding, he says, of theoronavirus but now we'll see how the biden campaign and other democrats are really going to move forward ahead about ou

presenting aer argument to refpbles on the issue of the courts, especially as this presents a political opportunities f trump to fulfill the promises he made to those base supporters, those conservatives voters who care a lot about the joe biden and his campaign are going to have to figure out how to present a counter narrati to that. bert: bob woodward, i want to come back to a word you used in your first answe hurricane. and the titles of your book, "rage." i was sitting with you in march of 2016 when then - candidate trump told us both, i bring the out, i always have. you've documented in your book e ravenlg inside this presidency, that's in the country. you'veed stu american democracy and reported on it. for does it mean now pandemic to now have this threat of a supreme court vacancy being pulled just 45 ds before the

election? bob: first you're going to have to look a voting blocs and there's been much discussion and i think legitimate discussion that evangelicals particularly, pro-life rublicans, evangelicals were kind of waivering on trump. o-- waveringn trump. abortion is such a key issue with lots of people on both sides but particularly that c,ting b and so now trump is going to be able to come out and say, look, i can change the anurt, i change history. i can, you know,erps, as we know, roe v. wade could bern over, so it -- i think with that group and with people who have been wavering about trum, evangelicals,

particularly pro-life people are going to say, well, ok. otrump is going t give us in on the big one and it's -- it is a magnet and, you know, it's exactly rig what we're talking about among liberals d decrats. ruth bader ginsburg was an icon. she was also touch. i knew her i sat next to her at dinners. and sheld w not -- she believed in the dignity of women, the dignity of all citizens in this country and so her loss -- it's not just a litical loss, i think it's nd of -- it creates a little bit o a moral vacuum in the supreme cour in washington in flicks. so it's going to be something to

watch. everyone's going to be playing it what do the senate republicans do? are there going to be doubters on this? just in a -- if you can ever get to 100,000 feet on something like this and look down, if you were designing a system, a political system like well. you would almost build into it that you don't fill supreme of a presidency.in the last year i don't know how you do that but it would be better that this issue be decided nember 3 when weote on keeping trump in or puttingid in. and so that -- my analysis and i

do not have a good track record on this but i think it's really a tossu election. i think that there -- as trump told me in our many interviews in the las10 months, he kept emphasizing i have invisible people who will n come out and say they support me to pollsters, even to their neighbors and their friends oro neig even their spouse and their partner. nd so everyone gets to decide. you go to polling place or mail it in. so we're going to see something like we haven't seen in thisy coun for a long, long time. robert: margaret, we just saw me images and reportsing that they've already brought some of the flags down to the supreme court.

i've also been texting before the show with my sources atithe house who say pay attention to amy comby barrett, e federal judge abortion rights and they'reng sahe senate g.o.p. is already talking amongst moveelves tonight ready to create complications for senator sun collins, a nod rat republan in maine or coreyne ga a swing state in colorado a tough race there. how is thisng tension g to play out based on your sources o in the., between nose who want to move quickly and nose who may have some hesitation? margaret: mcconnell's intention is tolo f speed ahead but as race in maine and susan collins, who could be influential here. i wonder, does it put them in an awkwar spot? the down-ballot races.

the republicans are running to hold on to the senate majority and are the national review recently had a piece writing about this as a chernobyl-like event. the fear of losing the republican majority. does this create a fear for ther some of the republicans because it's a not vapor to come out and vote or does it move tse to move the senate into democratic control? sflilt ticket, potentially, it will breally interesting ion. and awkward. it will formals the issue into senate races around the country and tonight we're just hearing, because people don't want to on the record talk in the wake of t about their next move but make no mistake, they were certainly planning them. joe biden, when we knew r.b.g. was im. she has been and she peten i

don't know how much times resurgentce c he was being pressed just a few months ago to release his list of nominees and weaven't seene pecific names of who he envyings putting on that courts but said it would be a black woman, nana is someone who would be on his list. for president trump t list he's release has about five women on it. at least two african-american men a number of hispanics. we's trying here as well to s the person, if notiversity of thought in pushing forward a conservative nominee potentily so this isefinitely something we're going to be tking about in washington leelt leading touch this election and beyond. robert: bobard was talking about how evangelical christians, republican voters could be mor enthusiastic than because e to theolls

court but what about mocratic voters, the rank and file who also may benergized and wre already seeing tonight anger among top democrats such as that republicans should hold off until the election? alexi: we've said this is going to be a really nasty fight in washington but we know thats democrre already enthusiastic about showing up to vote in november for the election. not just because of getting rid of president trump but because of what they want the country to look le and feel i hear from democratic leadsers and racial justice leaders all the time within the democratic party that theyan to move forward into a new era so i think the prospects of a re racement for.b. is going to drive democratic voters out but that's especially through if they see republicans in the

senate acting in bad faith, fill to rush to phil -- which they'll be really unhappy about and they'll use that as a rallying cry for their voters and another reason for them to get o and vote. we've seen a lot of protests in the lt three months along, of course against police brutality but think about the brett vanaugh hearings and how nasty those got and how that spurred protests among women's groups and democratic voters alike. this could be the same fit turns out ase' that as expecting it to. throip is all alongsidehe pandemic. bob has sharedew, previously unreleased audio with "washington week." bob: so what dwraile do you give youelf on the virus for the last six, seven months? esident trump: other than the public relions, which is

possible because it's fake media. fake. i know you disagree -- bob:h, y do. president trump: other than the fact that i've beennae to -- bob: so what's the grade, sir?es ent trump: i give yourselves -- ourselves an a but the grade is incomplete and i'll tell you why. if we cometh up he vaccines and therapeutics, there i give myself an a-plu robert: bob, take us inside that exchange and how it connects to this wnd moments in america. a president confronting yet giving himself an a-plus. what does that mean for the country a the election? bob: well, this was a conversation i had with him july 189 so this is two months agos and t was a moment -- look at the charlotte. there were almost four million virus cases in the country.

at that point astonishingly,0 142, people, our citizens in this country had die of the coronavirus. and he'san giving himsel a or an a-plus? lookat the record on this, which i've put togethern my book. go back to january 28th. let me set the scene there in the oval office. a top-secreteeng between the president and his national curity advisors and his national security advis robert o'brien, after they received a m briefing f the intelligence community, he says, mr. president, this virus will be the biggest threat, the biggest

yournal security threat to his deputy, matt pottinger steps in. journal reporter in china for et seven years. compiled a very good record. new cnese doctors covered the 2003 sars endemic and knew that the chinese leeled lied. ttinger had sources inside china. we know as jrnalists, having a key, informed source can make had a key source and laid it out. when i read a this in may, i realized that he was not tellina the ame people about the truth about this. as he told me, he was playing i, do playing it down.

it is a tragedy for the country, for trump personally, for the republican party. robert: bob, let's pause there because you used a word that's so critical. truth. rgaret, you interviewed national security advisor robert o'brien in that same period. he told the nation not to panic on your program. how is truth going toatter in the coming weeks as there's a culture war in the supreme court d a pandemic that continues to ravage america? marg that truth and facts still do matter. robert o'brien on february 2nd o did come and say really, no reason for people to think there was a threat to them here in the united states, downplaying it. what bob just sketched out as to what he was saying in provide because the saw the potential for where this was going and they knew what was

happening if china could replicate here. i think one of the things that -- to the degree we can ever get past the tension of this election and reallynalyze the number of intelligence mistakes of health policy mexico mistakes, of decisions that should have been carried out. it is going to be critical for that next time. th idea that the entire month of february was wasted. the perspective dismisses that saying no, we were ordering masks. no, we were aski pharmaceutical companies to start makingaccines but one critical built of information that they did not have was exactly where the virus was in america the at that time when the public was being reassured that it wasn't a threat to themt yevel to china had been shut off. did they actually know that the entire east coast was getting sealeded with infections through europe because china was still allowing that transit point so

it was spreading to the rest of the world? thes oare the kind fact-finding missions that are so critical and will be key after this election as well. if it's a trump or biden administraon, to sort through. that's what worriese. robert: that's all the time we ave tonight. we had a long discussion. onlyave half an hour here on pbs. we'll keep the disssion going. i really appreciate you coming on. bob woodwardaret brennan and alexi mccammond. we really appreciate it with this fast-moving devopment, the death of ruth baderbu gi. rest in peace to her. best wishes to her family and thank you all for joining us tonight and going along with us as we adjust to this new we'll keep taking you as close oz news as we can. stick with us florida for the extra. we'll have bob woodward. but for now, i'm bob costas. good nightn.rom washi

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