tonight on kqed newsroom, we dive into the state of climate change denial is a man america, and the readiness of green solutions to take over for fossil fuels. berkeley and yale share their research with us. across california businesses are beginning to reopen, and economists give us a look at what the change means for the state, while business owners show the struggles of holding onto his james in these uncertain time welcome kqed newsroom, i more than 18,0firefighters are fighting 27 places that have already burned 3.4 million acres in the state. the l and you scu and lightning

fire complex are so pretty, but strong. re still burning governorome has repeatedly the changing climate, they h spoke about the fire at length with president trump, enin sacr on monday for the president had threatened to cut off fe ral funding to california for p management with other issues. during his monday visit the president refused to acknowledge that climate change is playing a role in the hotter and more intense ldfires. a denial at odds with public opinion about climate change. journeyman out by skype hafrom ton, connecticut, is a professor at the yale school of environment and research scientist at the le program communication. journey by skype from oakland's dan cannon, and director of the renewable and appropriate energy lab, thank you both for joining us. jennifer i want to start with you, president tracp didn't owledge that impact of climate change on e fires, instead saying it will start getting tcooler, juwatch. your data would indicate that he is not in step with the rest

of americans when he insists there is no climate change. >> that's right, 72% of that public believe that climate ppening that our planet is getting warmer. 72%, and over 60% understand that it is fossil fuels and human acvities causing the wormy. he is out of step with the public. >> those attitudes have evolved over the 10 years veat you been conducting these poles. tell us about that change. >> yes, they have been changing a lot. they didn't change in the beginning of this decade but are becoming moreand more ople alarms. in fact, we have identified six different publics among th general public, and about more than half of americanare now either concerned or e alarmed. the the people most engaged in this issue, so that is over half the public now. >> dan, at do yothink about this disconnect between the leadership and the diissal of

climate change, and this sentiment among americans, the belief that clime change is a problem. >> it is a very cynil view from the white house, as jennifer highlights, the data is very clear. thpublic recognizesthe difference, we know the difference between climate and weather, it isnot that hard for most of us. but the white house seems to treat this as an opportunity to divide, not unite the country. >> dan, you ha been onthe intergovernmental panel for climate change for more than 20 years, you have a wding on climate change. does the alspeed and of the wildfires and other weather events in our nation over the past month, shock you? >> no, sadly it doesn't shock me at all, this is entirely stconsistent with the fore we are seeing not only the perfect fires in california, but la year inaustralia there were fires before that in siberia, this is all exactly in

keeping with what the models have been saying now for almost a decade. je >> ifer can you share with us a little of how the oil and gas companies are able to exert influence, in the white house an on capitol hill. in order to continue our dependence on foil fuels >> well, we know that while the public overwhelmingly believes that this is a real oblem, and overwhelmingly supports action on it, we know that in fact, in congress and the white hoa e, there is disproportionate number of people who still deny climate change and dethe reality. a lot of that is due to the influence of the oil and gas lobbyists. on congress and the white house. in many cases, in fath among public, only 20% of people actually deny that climate change is real or they think if it is happening, then it is caused by natural cycles or the

sun or something like that. it only 20among the public as a whole. but when you look at congress and the white house, it isit feels like more than half, or at least. and that is due to the influence of industry and people who want to maintain the status quo, and keep thin the way they are without really thinking about the public health and our safety. >> dan, california rrently gets mothan 30% of its energy from renewable sources, like wind and solar. we have a goal of doubbyng that 2030. but how much of a change can california have when it comes to climate change? how much of an impact can we have when we don't havethe federal leadership that will help us get there as a nation? >> actually califoia exerts a huge influence, we were the first state to pass a 100% clean energy target for 2025, and now washington state, hawaii, new york, and new meco ha all followed us with their own versions of the same thing. so there isic a domeimpact,

we see it in the positions of the democratic candidates, and inscfact, the ntific consensus is over 97% of scientists see this as a very clear, human-caused climate emergenc so california's stance, is in the leadership in the u.s., it is entirely consistent with the science. and it is entirely consistent with california's out-of-state policies, we haveclean energy trade agreements with china, we partner with european governments, where their position is much more aligned between the policies, the economic investme of the science, just like we'r here. so california is 60% clean energy go by 2030, is one that we expect we will actually hit that early and rncali is now working to w we will change that 2045 goal of 100% clean energy, potentially

moving that earlier. >> jennifer, tell e us about regional differences you see in your polling, and how that plays into american attitudes climate change. >> there is a lot of regional variability, in fact. what you think of as blue states along the coast, nded to haa lot more support, d understanding of climate changes,and policies like regulating carbon dioxide as a pollutant. like reducing our greenhouse gas emissis. but, in e middle of the trco in the midwest for example, support is lower. as you might expect, and more we conservative. also know that when you look at the ethnic differences, so counties that have a lot of casinos for example, in southern texasnew mexico, and arizona, support for climate action is really high in those counties. re than any other racial ethnic groups worry about climate change because they are paicularly vulnerable. we see that in our last. >> what about african-american communities who happened also

rtdispronately impacted by environmental injustices? >> very similar, also very concerned about climate ange, the numbers aren't as high as the latinopopulation, and there may be cultural differences, at work there, and geographic differences at work. but african-american vulnerable, then communities that tend to be more white and h wealthy. ane across the board you find that many americans don't think that they will be personally affected by clime change, you will nonetheless see it might be 50 or 60% of latinos or african-americans whbelieve that. ereas white people will tend to give much lower numbers, will find much lower percentages. >> and dan, are ere energy solutions, technolog that can address some of this racial injustice and questions about environmental justice that we seacross the nation? >> yes, there really are. in fact the movement to install solar on homes and apartmen

buildings, and businesses, is one that can really be a source of equity, there is a number of nonprofit groupsin the country that focus on energy efficiency, and solar for low income communities. and the project t we m recently did to use national dly, that the awareness and the opportunity to install solar was dramatically higher in white majority neighborhoods. then it was in line x communities. where it is 30% less like a and 70% less likely in african-american communities, which means while the community technology there, we have not figured out how to rmdo inion dissemination and financing to make it available for lower income communities. >>'s right, you certainly think about it peas an ive insulation, expensive home item if you are puttg solar panels on your roof. for many years, i am curious, the green energy solutions have been become a nascent

technology, they haven't been ready to step up and takefoover oil and gas. do you feel that we are at an inflection point now? are they ready? yeah, we ve hit that point a couple years ago, in 2019, 2018, the most common deplgied energy techno were, worldwide, were solar and wind. their prices are now significantly below natural gas, the local, and on par with old legacy hydro plants. that means installing these technologies, in affluent and low inme communities, is a much more functional of financing. businesses, affluent communities, can afford the upfront cost. and then reap long-term benefits. it is abnot just t solar and wind, it is actually driving electric vehicles is much cheaper per mile traveled, then s powered car.

when electric vehicles were more expensive than gas cars that was a barrier, but now that they onare roughly par, across income levels, this is a technology we can deploy. the trick is, we need to get charges in nyplace because low income people don't have a driver, they can't do charging ailable publicly like in downtown areas or at work. so these are areas where municipal and federal government can abcllutely use n energy as a tool for climate and racial justice and equity. >> those seem to be hopeful steps, jennifer i am curious, in your studies, do people feel hope when it comes to the im question of e change? do they feel that they have the power to make a difference? or, is there ally a sense of despair? >> thwe, k people feel a lot of despair. and in fact theyhave a lot of education we need to do to help people understand the kinds of solutions, that the technology exists.

because people don't really know what the solutions are. they know that we can limit carbon dioxide emissions, and they support broad policies like providing tax rebates, if you want la install panels or by electric vehicles. everyone supports whether you are democrat or republican, no matter where you live you renewable energy. ing to at e federal or national level, even though we are not investing in that research at this rate we need to. but lot of people don't know what the solutions are. so we need to do better, as a community, to s addrose gaps. >> science seems to bee there, public opinion seems to be there, why are you still feeling science is under attack? >> said at we are seeing it, we have a director of the epa who ouhas come against some of the latest science. we see pocurrent tments to the department of the interior, department of energy, for either just simply g bewrong, or they are paid off by the

industry to come up with these statements that deny the science. and i think what is saddesto me, i am the child of a historian. is that the u. used to be a country where we saw problems, we invested in you science technology, policyopportunities and we put those into practice in terms of government action and for whatever d reason, we currently have a government that seems to be turning away from that scientific u.s. le away from the well-being of their own children >> professn cannon, per suppressor jenna, thank you. to learn more about public opinions on climate change, including where you li, there's a climate communication.yale.edu. somebay area businesses are eagerly opening their doors and are rolling out the welcome mat to customers.

on a limited basis. san franciscans enjoyed nails done indoors once again. marin, napa, santa clara and san francisco have all moved one step up from the reheaviest rictions. shifting from purple to red, on the states coronavirus tracking map. but even so, many small business owrs worry if they can survive. while complying with new rules and measures to keep staff and customers say. her name byit out sky from san francisco is joe talmage, the owner of world gym san francisco. joe things were joining us. >> thank you, thank having me. >> you have had this 30gem fo years, and you have been through several ups and down tell me w the coronavirus pandemic has impacted yo business, in comparison to other challenges you faced. >> i think with the coronavirus, in particular, i believe it caused, it caught everyone by surprise. doe sh came to us march 17th

i believe. we had no indication prior to that that there would be any sort of forcedshutdown. so it was quite sudden and surprising. and just stopped as dead in our tracks. >> you thought it would also be for only a few weeks, at the most? >> yeah, exhotly. weht it was really going to be maybe two weeks, a month at the most. we really had not a contemplate long extended shutdown. nor were we prepared for that. >> so how much of a financial hit has this been for you, since you had to shutdown in march? >> well, it has been pretty severe, and we're not even sure if we are going to come out that hole in the long-term. but we did mention survive, we lost probably close to $1 million in the past six months a business, and that is real s money that able to pay our employees, we have 50+ employees. wervice vendors, had to drop

lot of our services we had in the gym, so it was quite, quite impactful from a financia loss. and, did you need to lay off employees then? >> yes we did, we laid up pretaf much our entire with the exception of our general manager, and other than that, we ally couldn't ha onto anyone. >> were paycheck protection loans hopeful to you? >> they were somewhat helpful, although they came in really te for us in particular, we applied for them but that w sort of a challenging gauntlet to go throughthe process of applying for the pp p. when he finally did come later, lethere were and regulations in which yohad to use those funds. and it didn't ma a lot of sense as a small business owner to really be impactful in a way. >> did it help you get through this time feor do yo like that really wasn't the benefit you r?were hoping

>> no, it didn't. on a scale of 1 to 10 it was maybe two. in terms fu being he >> well how have you managed to hold on until you were able to well, we, our businesses came to a hard stop, we completely shut down operations one of our biggest challenges was, and is, and continues to be, our landlord. be able negotiate a long- term solution to the rent that we are obligated to pay, and so that, i think a lot of businesses that is their biggest challenge right now. is it to come up with a workable plan, with the landlord to able tostay in business. >> e, it must have come as welcome news to know you would be able to reopen in a limited capacity, tell me about your operations now. how have they changed since before the pandemic? >>chthe biggest ge has been only being able to operate at 10% capacity. that is really significantly limiting our ability to serve, prr pre-cover, we were seeing about 800 visits a day,800

people a day coming into our gym. now, with the capacityhalimits, it s been very, very slow coming back. people are still nervous about returning to jim's, or out in seeing that low volume of people coming in, is, it has been the biggest change. >> i am curious, what kind of financial assistance would help you, from states or federal officials? p to kur business or other small businesses afloat? >> it would be, we applied for emergency disaster relief, buth the spa we have not yet gotten funding for that. but we are in the proceof nancial aid with the disaster relief program, that the sb offers. low interest rates and good repayment terms. if we could get good financing

in place and that it would be tremendously helpful to us. to be able to get caught back up with the six months of no revenue, really. >> jotalmage, withworld gym in san francisco, joe, thanks for your time. >> of course, my pleasure, thk you. meanwhile, on capitol hill, cal speaker nancy pelosi said the mahouse will in session to hammer out the new economic relief bill that would include federal unappointed benefits whichended in ju but some question whether a massive relief bill is needed for an economy they claim is welln track to recovery. that is the opinion our next guest, joining me now by sky from los angeles, chris barber, the founder of beacon economics. so chris, let's talk first of all about why you think a new round of federal belay funding is not needed. >> ll, let's beclear about what the first one actually has done. and what it has done for the future y the econright

now. if you look around at the numbers, and where that money, that almost $3 trillionover thst three months, much of that money is still there. it hasn't been spent, because the big problem onin our y is you can to spend money. what does that mean? commercial banking deposits, e for example, about 2 1/2 trillion dollars higher today than they were six months ago. we have never seen th kind of fantastic increase in overall just cash, waiting to be spent. what that means, of course, is there is pley of dry powder to get the economy going which we gecofull rol over this virus. from my perspective, the best way of getting the economy rolling again is to get ruthis out of the way. >> there are certainly many people who are still hurting in this economy, yelp just released the latest economic impact report, and 60% are 0 nearly 100,businesses are

not going to be reopening nationally. can you talk us through what that impact of the virus is small and large businesses in california? >> i have he d that numbas well, and here is the problem, i have no idea what it means. we have no context, we don't know what that looked like in 2019ss2018, small busi to turn over faster than any other kind obusiness. in our economy there are constantly d coming in leaving. there is no thdoubt that pandemic had a severe influence on small businesses, particularly the hospitality sector. small hotels, alrestaurants, the facilities closed down by the various government mandates. we know thesguys are sufferin but, at the same time, remember that with all that money sitting there, that has been put away because of all the stimulus, you know they will have business oncewe get the virus out of the way. some businesses will not necessarily be open, i understand that there is no doubt about it. but at tithe same we have new numbers from the census on business applications, and

right now business applications high. ifornia are at a 20 year so some businesses seem to be labor, other businesses are popping up in their place. overall, we are cleay on the road to recovery, we just have to get, yet again, control the virus. >> a man i feel thatwe do everyone, especially at as they are struggling in the state. i would like to touch base on some analysis that your organizationjubeacon economics, shared yesterday. it states that despite the relatively vigorous job recovery of the state overall, the states major metros will remain behind their previous growth trend, can you explain what this means and the difference between the coastal and inland region when it comes to recovery? >> right,absolute. e first thing to keep in mind is that at the beginning of this we saw fantastic ofincreas nemployment rates. just to to a level we haven't seen in a vevery long time. now that unemployment rate was driven by temporary laf ffs, mostthose a temporary laid off people are actually going back to work. but at the sameime, some are

not. some of inthose turned permanent job losses. those are the ones we worry about, and yeah, it is rising a little faster in california than in other places. ctwell, remember, the s that are being hurt are wrapped around tourism in particular, and california, of course, because of our heautiful weand the great things to do, is, has a tremendous amount of tourism. when you look around the state, the highest unemployment rate, the worst decline in jobs, have bece in tourist ers, orange county, san francisco, places that are not typically cyclical because they have also had so many high-end centers. contrast that empire which has actually seen the lowest overall decline in number of jobs of any majo economy in the state. again, that is not sea heavy tourisor. like palm springs and temecula. >> we just talked with a small business owner in san francisco

who said that the ppp load that he received was too little, too late. can you tell me, is there data out there about how effective the program has been cationally? >> no, e those kind of studies tried to figure out the effectiveness of programs, it takes time to tease out the number we have to have good data and sadly at this point in time it is hard to figure out what h specifically done. but, with that in mind, i will tell you this. again, it is not so m it may have done ertoo much the last couple of months, rather, it iswhat ithas done in order to get us epared for the next round of economic growth. go back to what i was talking about in terms of commercial deposit, the fact that households have tucked away about 1 1/2 trillion dollars in the last six months arbecause they unable to spend money on other things. all that money is sitting there and going, when it is get regulations go away. and the regulations will go away when we get corol of the

virus. >> do you want to go back to the zone implemented was for a moment, because in wecalifornia were below 5% before the pandemic, that we got up, and now we are still pretty high, weare 11.4% ich is above the nations average, of about a percent. thso, and at same time, you are firmly convinced that we are through the recession and we are on a recovery, and it is a v-shaped recovery, can you liexplain why you e that? >> well, it is actually data. you can take hlthe mogdp numbers, and create monthly estimates. interesting because this is absolutely the deepest recession in u.s. economic history. it is also the shortest the peak of economic activity was february, that y was basicae last month before the recession began. the trough of economic activity occurred in april. since april, if you look at anything from consumer spending to industrial activity, to imports, all jothe metrics of economic activity, they have zoomed

forward. st fact, if things ed the same in august and september as they were in july, we are setting up for 27 to 28% growth rate in the ird quarter of the year. it will not be like that, it is actually growing faster than that, we are tipred about a 35-36% growth rate for the third quarter. that basically makes up for most of what was lost in the second quarter of the year. the unemployment numbers are lagging, they always do. we have two kinds of unemployment and the downturn, the fit emwave of oyment were people who were on temporary layoff. those folks are going back to work and rapidly. co that ts for the sharp decline in employment. however, people are losing their jobs permanently, and g that of course is caussome of the underlying long-term unemployment to rise. that will be there and it will take about a year to have get over. >> chris darby with economics, >> my pleasure. uch. >> you can find more of our vege at kqed.org. i am point david clemens, you can reach me on facebook, an

instagram. 2020 has not been an easy year,c but the econetbacks, and s with the wildfiit is easy to fill some level of despair. we will bring you some practice at the end of our show, i look at something beautiful in our e mmunity. enjoy thcially distanced hearts, which have been painted in several san francisco parts by e parks alliance, a reminderof love and caring in this difficult season. from all of us here at kqed, thanks for watching, good night.

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