♪ judy: good evening. i am judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight. a quarter million dead. the massive surge in covid-19 infections and deaths prompts the re-imposing of restrictionst and a seriouin on the nation's hospitals. denying defeat. president trump and what is left of his campaign continue their longshot legal challenges to the election results, as the transition of power remains delayed. plus, age discrimination. employment lawyers report an uptick of layoffs of older workers as a result of the pandemic-induced recession. >> they are using covid-19 and the economy as an excuse to create loffso avoid additional expenses with

insurance premiums going up. if they have an older workforce, they could be subject to more difficult problems with covid. judy: all that and more on tonight's "pbs newshour." ♪ >> major funding forho the pbs news has been provided by -- he>> the world gets complicated, a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity health management, we c tailor advice and recommendations to your life. ♪ >> consumer cellular. johnson & jnson. financial services firm raymond james. bnsf railway.

the committed toc restoringandide fund, and ideas. -- the candideun committed to restoring ideas. and carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individualand institutions. ♪ >> this program was made le by the corporation fo public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank.

judy: rising infections and rising fears tget things will far worse. the covid-19 plague is generating both tonight in the nation'sulost ps state, california, has announced an overnight curfew for most of the state. that as approaching holidays have public health experts more worried than ever. amna nawaz begins our coverage. amna: thanksgiving is a week away and coronavirus infections e on the rise. as the u.s. death toll crossed 250,000 this week, members of the coronavirus task force held the public re-think for the first time in months. vice president pence projected optimism. >> i believe the day is coming soon we will put this in the past. jeff: while -- amna: while dr. deborah birx urged people to be cautious. >> really limits interactions

indoors to immediate households when we see this level of community spread written amna: the cdc -- spread. amna: the cdc urging americans not to travel. it has been 300ays since the first reported case of covid-19s in the after subsiding from the summer, the virus is running rampant this fall. two months ago the u.s. reported more than 41,000 daily yesterday, more than 172,000 new ses of covid-19. of the more than 11.5 million infections worldwide, more than one million occurred in the last week with hotspotsn iowa and minnesota. mr. biden: beating covid-19 will require all of us working together as one untry. amna: the disparities continue to fall starkly uponacial lines.

hispanics and hospitalized at four times the rate of white americans. african-americans have been hospitalized at nearly four times the rate of white americans. most vulnerable were seniors in long-term care facilies. a new study by the associated press found the toll of the virus in those facilities to be greater. researchers at the university of short staffing, isolation and other pandemic related issues at nursing homes have led to 40,000 additional deaths, something one group disputed. >> nursing homes are staffed in the bestms of cirnces to provide routine services to the people who live there. along comes a pandemic. there is no reserve capacity. amna: dawn says her mother was healthy when she moved to a nursing facility in new york.

>> within three weeks of covid patients being forced into the nursingwa home, my mo dead. amna: she blames her death on the la of care. they say carolyn best was dehydrated. inhe nation's capital, rising cases led the smithsonian institution to once again close its museum and national zoo. w york city schools reverteli entirely to learning. mayor bill de blasio -- >> if something is changing rapidly in the city, we see what is happening around the country, we have to reset the equation. amna: public schools inlo denve, do will go fully remote for all grades for the rest of the semester. for the pbs newshour, i am on no nuance a- im amna nawaz. judy: alex azar said pfizer will

file tomorrow for emergency approval of its covid vaccine. word today congressional leaders may resume talks on a deal for covid relief and assistance. but unless a new bill is approved soon, several measures will expire by christmas fed.eral government, based in -- will expire by christmas. more than 10 million jobs have been lost. dr. richard best ths talked abou toll. today in a usa today piece, titled the u.s. is -- the viru is not pausing, the u.s. should not either. dr., thank you for joining us. for months, we have been hearing these warnings, don't travel, bl care, this pandemic is getting worse, but people appear to be planning to travel, to

gather in large groups over major warnings today from the cdc and other federal agencies. how worried are you people are just not listening? guest: i am extremely worried. this is a worst-case scenario. we have the holidays here at a time when respiratoryiruses thrive. they love cold weather and low humidity. we have nation that has not come together around what needs to be done to control this. it is clear our personal actions, wearing masks, keeping apart from each other, washing hands, has aig impact. it is also clear people need resources from congress in order ptect themselves, their families and their communities. as your rerter was showing, this pandemic has had a imdisparatct on communities of color, hitting them at four times or more the rates of white communities.

we want to turn the tide, people need money in their pockets,rotection from eviction or mortgage foreclosure. too many in america have to decidehether to go to work to pay the rent or stay home to protect themselves and communities. that will take more than people that takes hard, fast action jufrom congress. : the piece you wrote today, you said the actions of government and individuals will liowly determineany people die and what our society values. you are saying a lot of responsibility lies with individual people. with guest: that is right. what we individually do. if wely were able to rround wearing masks, we would see a dramatic decli in cases. if we were driven by science -- i am seeing quick movement to close schools.

i am a pediatrician and a parent. i know how important in classroom learning is. so many communities have been able to do that effectively. europe are viewing schools as an essential service and closing everything else in order to protect the ability for children to go to school safely and for teachers and staff in those schools to have the resources they need to do th safely. rather than closingars, moving restaurants to pick up delivery, omcanceling of those indoor activities we know are at risk, we are quickly closing down schools places where the data are not showing that is a risk. judy:et's go back to what you were saying about the federal government, congress and itsle dwhyou think is most urgent congress do?

it has been months since we have seen movement and congress around aid for this pandemic. what is most important they get done? guest: several things. they need to put in place immediately a moratorium on evictions and mortgage foreclosures. it is estimated tens of millions of people in january a at risk of becoming homeless, getting evicted in the ddle of winter, g the middle of a rag pandemic. they need to put money in people's pocke. we saw in the spring how valuable that was for p meet their essential needs and stay home if they were not feeling well andghhought they have covid. they need to extend unemployment so those people not working have the resources they need toec prthem selves and their families. they need to ensure everybody k has save and family medical. in many countries these are the basics. they also need to provide protections for small as this is. the ppp needs to be

reinvigorated. our states desperately need money. unlike the federal government, our states nee to allan's the. without millions of dollars, states have to make decisions as to whether they fully fu medicaid, their school systems, their housing programs. those programs are desperately needed now, but without federal dollars, state governments have erto make decisions you nant to see them make. judy: what would you say to lawmakers who say, we put a lot of money together, we tried to send it out the door months ago. a lot of itas not been spent yet. we do not want to rush into doinsomething. what do you say to that? guest: i wou say, look at the number 250,000 deaths. recognize that by the end of the year we could be talking 300,000 deaths.

u recognize that what right now could have a dramatic difference. i am so optimistic faced on this vaccine news. if we get pushed throughwi this er and do all these things and get through this winter to the otheride, we will see hopefully, vaccine ats lev where it could have a dramatic impact. if congress does noact now, we'll be talking about horrific milestones every month. that does not ve to be. that is not what we want to see from our government. judy: i hear you saying you are that vaccine is available.e guest: j thanky. thank you. ♪

stephanie: i am stephanie sy with newshour west. we will return to judy woodruff and the full program after the latest headlines. in election news, georgia completed itsun hand re of millions of ballots and the associated press tonight has declared joe biden the winner there. the audit narrowed the margin and fod errors, but affirms the peach ste's6 electoral votes will go to biden. wisconsin today formerly -- former order t recount in two counties, paid by the trump campaign. was widely reported mr. trump is trying to get republican lawmakers in states lost to name new pro trump delegates that could override voters. we will have more on this after the news summary. the u.s ecomy showed new signs of damage from surging covid-19 infections and restrictions. the labor department reported

another 742,000 americans filed for unemployment. that was up 30000 and mark the first increase in five weeks. easury secretary steven mnuchin is ending several pandemic era emergency lendi programs run by the federal reserve. the funds were allocated by the cares act last spring and supported fedng leno nonprofits and local governments. the fed wanted the pgram to remain in place, but mnuchin said congress intendedd unu funds be returned to the treasury. hurricane iota's death toll has risen0 to more thanross central america. deadly landslides were triggered by flooding that overwhelmed wholeommunities in honduras and nicaragua. rescue effints are contiin the president of honduras is pledging to help thousands left homeless. >>co we arinuing with humanitarian work read it is crucial people do not return to their homes.

there are still places at risk. we have to aend to our people with hot food in the shelters. those outside of their homes, support will be taken. stephanie: all told, some 230,000 hondurans and caraguans are living in shelters. human watch -- human rights watchst call to inate soldiers conduct. that followsen a goverreport that australian special forces killed at least 39 afgha prisoners, farmers and civilians over the years. the report includes allegations british and u.s. special forces carried out similar crimes. a badly damaged space telescope in puerto rico is shutting down. the iconic ecibo radio telescope is unstable and beyred ir. after years of hurricanes, humidity and earthquakes. asthe telescopeuilt in the 1960's. it has searchedor planets,

asteroids and possible lifeforms. stil t ahead, tmp campaign continues its longshot legal challenges to the election result mike pompeo becomes the first u.s.ecretary of state to visit an israeli occupied settlement in the west bank. wene examihy pollsters often got the numbersrong in the 2020 election, and much more. >> this is the pbs newshour from weta studios in shington and from our bureau from the walter cronkite school of journalism from arizona state university. judy: unfounded claims of fraud and calls for recounts escalated again today in battleground states from the presidential election. in moment, william brangham will explore the legal challenges andfoheir potential success. stephanie sy begins with this reportn oe latest efforts to contest the results.

stephanie: failing to prove any widespread fraud, the presidents lawyers and alliehave turned to the postelection spotlight t the people who canvas and certify votes. president-elect bid today said that efforts were debilitating to the country. mr. biden: another incident where he will go down in history as one of the most irresponsible presidents in american history. it is not even within the norm at all. he questions whether it is even legal. stephanie: in wisconsin officials ordered a recount in two counties, paid for with $3 million from the trump campaign. the rancor over how to conductco the t on view tonight as officials argued for six hours. >> this is ridiculous. all you talk abo is that

democrats will do something nasty so these honest, hard-working republicans will not be able to see what is going on. and i am tired of that. we need to look at this terms of [indiscernible] a nonparsan commission and stop worrying about stuff. stephanie: the president's campaign andllies have initiated legal actions in six battleground states, employing a hodgepodge of debunked allegations that range from votingme equ conspiracies to supposedly in proprieties by election clerks. publicly at least, most republicans in congress defend the effort. should be counted. every recount should be finished. every legal challenge should be heard. stephanie: lacking evidence or legal standing, several cases o. dismissed or d while the allegations have fallen flat in court, the presidt's lawyer rudy giuliani

continued today in a lengthy news conference to them to the public. >> there was a plan from a centralized place to execute these various acts of voter fraud. icspecly focused on big cities. stephanie: even with misinformation from the top, the process marches on. michigan now certified its statewide results. n a recountorgia is coming to an end, with biden still winning. ahead of a december 8 deadline, trump's pathways are being closed off, one by one. forhepbs newshour," i am stephanie sy. william: for more on the trump campaign's election maneuvering, we turn to our correspondent yamiche alcindor in delaware tonight. help expitin the pal strategy behind the trump

campaign's efforts to keep fighting these fights in these fferent states. yamiche: president trump is continuing to ratchet up his campaign to unjustifiably have the election overturned in his favor by getting personally involved. we have not seen any american president do this. and the trump campaign files lawsuit after lawsuit without any evidence of claims of voter fraud and most is cominthrough the president's personal attorney. the president did something remarkable. he calledciwo county ofs in michigan,ay county, which includes detroit, and talk to them about the election. ey did not at first want to certify the votes. after talking to president trump,idhey d they wanted to rescind their votes to certify. state officials say there is no legal avenue to do that. criticsay this i dangerous behavior for him to be calling people personally as the

president of the uted states. the president also invited the top two elect republican officials in michigan to the white house. critics say that will be a bid for him to --biden ileading him by 150,000 votes. i put the presidentoday, this behavior from the president, is it making you change your legal stragy? he said he is not changing his strategy athis time, but that the president is being irresponsible, possibly the most irresponsible in u.s. history. william: they had som, legal setbace trump campaign. is this perhaps working in the court ofublic opinion? are these various fights changing people's minds? miche: despite president tru not having any evidence of claims of voterit fraud has had an impact on the electorate.

in particular, trump supporters. yesterday a university released a poll that showed 77% of trelp supportersve joe biden is the president-elect due to aud. only 11% believe the election is fair and square. that is a problem because president-elect biden will have to govern where millions of people believe the president's unfounded claims. trump could have them believing it was rigged and continues to fund raise and have influee in the republican party. its a place we should watch. william: those poll numbers are incredible. great to see you. yamiche: thanks. william: for more on the president's moves, we turn to nate from stanford university law school, co-founder of the healthy elections process. , naeat to see you again. there are so many pots coolly --

cookg on the stove. let's talk about lawsuits first. by my count, the trump campaign hased f maybe twot dozen differpes of lawsuits. could you remind us, what have they been suing and how have they been recved? nate: there have been 31 decisions at this point. they have lost 30 of them. these lawsuits spanned the gamut from questioning signature verification in nevada, to accusingifferent election officials in pennsylvania of applying different standards to democrats than republicans, as well as a host of procedural objectives. for example, not enough observers observing the ballot counting proce. the courts have been resilient, turning away these lawsuits. but there are still several in

the pipeline. five or six that are major cases, many in pennsylvania. in addition, we have recount processes in georgia and wisconsin that themselves might lead to lawsuits. william:d the thing i f interesting, rudy giuliani is still alleging this broader conspiracy. that there was a cadre of people voter fraud. place plotting as you are describing, when you look at the cases, they do not seem to be alleging any part of that grand conspiracy. nate: that is right, because it cannot be proven. you cannot say the man behind the curtain is responsible for these voting problems, and not know who that man might be. there haseen a blunderbuss approach. they include accusations about the voting machine manufacturers, local election

officials, pple and polling places, state officials, some of whom are republican. it is not just going after some conspiracy on the part of the biden campaign. is going against the entire voter infrastructure,asaying there multistate effort to shift votes to biden. william: you mentioned there were recounts going. could you remind us where those are being countnd whose votes nate: went have a full on rec in georgia. that should conclude in the next fedays. those are all the ballots cast in georgia. it is technically what we call an audit. to prepare your viewers, there will be a difference in the numbers recounted than the final totals. there always are. it will not be in the thousands that would be needed to flip the result.

and wisconsin, a different procedure is about to unfold where the trump campaign paid $3 million to have recounts i two counties. they will do rounts to see if there is any significant errors between votes cast on election day and the mail balloting process. william: if, as you describe, the lawsuitsmo have universally failed and recounts are unlikely to chan things, what i point? avyou described the so-called nuclear option. what isnd thatre these steps leading up to that? nate: yamiche alcindor was talking bit about this. i think there are several strategies a foot. short-term strategy, the hope these lawsuitsight flip enough votes it would lead to one or trump column.hifting to the

ththere is a strategy of casting doubt on the legitimacy ofn the election and joe bi president. that serves two purposes.on undermining the biden administration. theta other, to spur legislators to say, this election was inhereny flawed. therefore, we ther egislature une constitution will designater electors ump for the electoral college. that is such a far-fetched and unlikely possibility. it has not happened before. it is the nuclear option, the idea you would overturn an election and take away the rights of the voters and replace them with the rights of the politicians in the state legislators -- legislatures. william: let's hope it es not come to that. thank you very much. ♪

judy: today in the middle east, mike pompeo beca the first secretary of state to visit the golan heights settlements in the ounced majand a shifts in u.s. policy. to discuss i am joined by nick schifrin. tell us, what did secretary pompeo say and what did he do today? nick: the first unprecedented step pompeo took was about travel. he visited a settlement in the occupied west bank with a winery that last year named a vintage after him. israel calls the settlem t palestinians call it stolen. he took a u military helicopter to the golan heights. he got a tour from the u.s. military to the syrian border.

the trump administration i recognizlast year. >> you can't stand here and stare out at what is across the border and deny the central thing president trump recognized that previous presidents have refused to do. this is a central part of israel. nick: o polic he said any food produced on most settlements in thbeoccupied west bank shoul labeled made in israel. that d changades of policy that required the labeling of the west bank. helso embraced the israeli government argument that the boycott divesting sanctions unit was anti-semitic. he pledged to cut funding to any group that supports the bds. this was another attetpt by the sey of state to endorse israel's arguments about land and legali and minimize palestinian claims to statehood and what the international community considers illegal actions by israel. i talked to the head of the bds

movement earlier. he said he was trying to change is poly through economic pressure and accused him pao oft conflatingsemitism with legitimate criticism of israel and advocacy of palestinian rights, which he says it should be protected judy: we are down to almost theo lastonths of this administration. what is the impact of this? nick: not much. only 62 days until inauguration. it is unclearh how me administration can get done in that time. many of the miss ration's moves when it comes to israel direct doves or orders. been those can bey easversed by president-elect biden. what can't be reverse is the photo opportunities this trip gave mike pompeo, if he were to choose to run for office, for example, president in 24. judy: may beeveral meanings

behind this. thank you. ♪ judy: political polling is under scrutiny once again while reelection survey suggest democrats wer and a strong position to make gains across the board, the presidential race came down to the wire. democrats were disappointed by congressional and senate to help us understand what happened we spoke to two veterans of the industry. an iowa pollster. and a democratic pollster and ceo of park street strategies. thank you for being with us. look at the results. joe biden won, president trump

lost, but trump did better than the poll suggested he would. he did better in texas, florida, and in the national polls. do you have a theory about what >> i have a couple theories. i will share one. it appeared to me the democratic surge, its arc, peaked a little early. their push was to get people requesting ballots. the surge on the republican side happened closer to election day. there big push was to get pple to show up that day. it could be there was more enthusiasm, excitement, cruitment, of getting people to vote who may be were going to sit this one out. do not think it is changing minds at the lt minute, but i think the decision on whether to vote may have happened late for republicans.

judy: how do you see how the poles got it wrong in so many cases? >> there is not just one reason. e factor was the so-called silentrump voter. we have been seeing that in our research for a long time. e difficult part about this was figuring out, how big was he? what percentage of the electorate was a silent trump voter? aswhat happening, some pollsters we discounting it. i think there was a lot of noise. wetarted seeing it in polling for r clients. strength amost hispanics, which was somett ng people do pect. i think the challenge in this election compared to 2016, trump is such a diffict candidate to poll because of the perception

around him which makes certain voters reluctant to say they support him. judy: your last poll had it close to right in iowa and elsewhere. is there difficulty pulling around president trump? >> i don't know that i saw anything like a shy trump voter in data. we asked not only who you are planning tor, vote e had trump ahead by a large margin. we asked who they voted for in 2016. we do not find an apparent ance to tell us abo that. i think there is something else happening. that has to do with enough representation among rural voters who vote strongly for president trp. i think the question about whether this is uniqu to trump, the future will tell us. he has been someone who was far more a colts personality a

understanding why people felt so strongly about him. we have yet to figure that out. judy: i know there are so many pollsters, we cannot lump them all together, but those w work in the media a, they looking hard enough at all, whether rural areas or people in the middle of the country? how do you see that? >> i think there are predisposed notions that both framell what ers do as well as how the media analyzes those. we haveo really honest in the polling profession that there were real mistakes made in e selection. big miaaw -- misses. we have to step back and be more critical about what pollin is there for. people want the poll to tell you

exactly what outcome will be. it is an art and a science. we have to do a better job of asking critical questions to see why people are thinking abayt voting oner another. judy: w areexpecting too much of pollsters and the work you do? >> certainly when the polls lead, the public h certain expectation. first thing, let's kill all the pollsters, instead of lawyers. people get very invested in poll s. theyub almost think it is ac utility, that they are owed correct polling, when it is far more complicated than that. i do think this is a time for reflection and unpacking pollster by pollster what assumptions are embedded through

the methodologies and they are deciding who is a likely voter, how they are maging the telephone numbers they are calling. there are lots of things in their, very technical. judy: how much of this is just not able to reh enough people to have a representative sample? >> what we have seen, the response rates were good this artime. pry because the pandemic has people atll home, more g to answer phones. i do not think it is the response rate that is the challenge. the challenges, are we asking the right questions? i get disturbed when i see media polls that ask very a sick, cursory questions, and do not dig beneath, why are people thinking one way or another?

how do we get to the point where the media asks much more critical questions and we are not cheerleading polls simply because we like who is losing or winning. that is not the job of a pollster. itbs not my to tell a client what they want to hear. it is trying to understand what is going on in the electorate. this election, there was a lot more complexity going on that i still do not think we have understood. judy: a lot of conversation around polls leading up to elections. we thank you both. ♪ judy: ethiopia is confronting what the u.n. calls a fulriscale

humani crisis. the federal government based in the capital has been fighting a government in the north. ional it's unclear how many people have died, and the conflict has exacerbated hunger. nick schifrin is back and speaks -- back with this report. nick: the state department called for both sides of the conflict to de-escalate from what the international community fears could become a full-blown civil war. the most recent conflict began after ethiopia's nobel prizeni winning prime er sidelined leaders, but both sides have considered each other f illegitima decades. correspondent coletta wanjohi. , coletta, you've been out reporting. what are you seeing? coletta: the militaryorces continue since the fourth of november. th internet is down. there is a lot we do not know. what we are sure about i the influx of refugees into sedan.

an average of -- sudan. an average of 4000. they are running away from the conflicts. thousands of refugees each day for the last two weeks crossing by foot from the northerngi ethipoian called tigray into neighboring sudan. they're trying to escape airstrikes and fighting between the ethiopian army and the tigray people's liberation k fronwn as tplf. long-simmering politicalns tensetween the prime minister abiy and the tplf, the former ruling party, with each accusing the other of illegitimacy, finally boiled november 4.rime minister abiy ahmed accused the tplf of attacking a federal army base, offensive, declared a state o emergency, and cut off communications with the tigray region. >>he federal government is compelled to undertake a law enforcement operation to defend and protect constutional order awand uphold the rule of l

coletta: abel wabela knows about thosethnic tensions first hand. in 2014, when the tplf was o partf the ruling coalition of the country, he was pt of a group of bloggers that questioned their governance which faced local and international accusations of in response, the government accused them of terrorism.wa bela spent 84 days in the maekalawi detention centre where many political prisoners were held in the 27 years before prime minister abiy ahmed assumed power in 2018 and shut it down. >> i wasery hopeful. i was talking about, he will build a good justice system and change the system. instead of honest reform, he preferred to keep the remnants ion.he other administr

coletta: there is significant support for the military offensive, w among tho fought between the war with ethiopia in 1998. he lost his limbs in that war. question -- >> i wish victory for this if you put -- for this ethiopia defense force. coletta: prime minister abiy won reaching long-awaiace with for eritrea. but now the united nations is leading internationas for an immediate ceasefire. he says he musfirst restore law and order in the north. >> there should not be any mistake made in treating the federal government as equal with criminal groups. coletta: meanwhile, close to 100,000 eritrean refugees living in camps in the tigray region are said to be stranded with no humanitarian aistance.hundreds -- assistance.

hundreds of people have repoedly died from the fighting. prime minister abiy says he's not going to compromise. nick: as you mentioned, the federal government h off the northern section, has cut off tigray entirely. do we know how deadly this conflict has been so far? coletta: the best is we can gauge people fleeing from the northern region. that shows us the conflict has intensified and people feel it is not safe in the northern region. the government is still quiet about casualties, though it admits they have them from government sources andhe tigray regional forces. we know that in terms of communication, electricity is down. people have been stuck there we have 1000 american said to be stuck there. it is a tourism association. nick: zoom out for us. what are the regional implicions? coletta: at first the prime

minier said it would be more of an internal conflict, but the fact that the northern region has blamed eritrea, and sudan is receiving [indiscernible] there is a problem. on the others of the military region there is djibouti. we areun seeing ies within the region reaching out to opet and saying it is time for dialogue, but the prime minister says no. he wants to finish his military operation before he will sit down with s people who hes are not corrupt. nick: thank you very much. coletta: thank you. ♪

jobless claims were up today. in fact, roughly one-third of the unemployed have en out of work for more than six months -- about 3.6 million people ithout regular work since the start of the pandemic. for older workers in particular, unemployment can be the end of the road. economics correspondent paul solman looks at their problem as part of his series, "unfinished business." >> i get a call from my manager and he says, we had toe make som cutbacks, due to covid. ulu were the one we chose to let go. and poof, 61-year-old ciinnati-based cintas, wasson at just another older american out of a job. >> i had been with of the company 30 years. i neverreamed they would terminate me in that way. i have never been fired from

anything. paul: weeks before, at a meetinm about how the was handling covid, a young colleague stormed out. >> he just blew up at my a few hours later i was at my desk and my supervisor came over and told me that they needed to talk to me. he said,e know th you instigated that entire outburst from him. we're telling you right now we're not going to tolerate that. paul: the charge was absurd, says the grandmother of six. she ths terminated. young coworker? still there. so you think theerthinking we will use this incident as an excuse? >> yes. paul: what do you think prompted the dismissal? >> i think it was my age and physical condition because i have cirrhosis. paul: that pu docter at higher risk of severe illness from covid-19. >> kothy's situation is n unusual. paul: not at cintas, says cincinnati-area attorney katherine daughtrey neff, nor at

lots of firms these days. >> they are using covid-19 and the economy as an excuse to create layoffs. you ask apa c, that could be because long-term or older workers tend to earn more. they could also be trying to avoid additional expenses with insurance premiums going up if they have an older workforce workforce o could be subject to more difficult problems with covid. paul: the recession rule of thumb used to be last hired, first fired. so the new reality is pareal ure from the past for older workers, says economist teresa ghilarducci. >> this is a trend that we all are surprised about because it used to be that at l experience at attachme to the employer paid off in a recession. you saw the younger workers being pushed out a lot faster. paul: but unemployment rates for workers 55 and older have been higher than mid-career employees since the start of this pandemic, ys ghilarducci. >> the volatility of this recession is much grthan

it was evein the last recession. in those times, you have and getting rid ofount.ort term getting rid of high cost headcount is the order of the day. paul: age bias has been virus but oft course it's nothing new. >> was part of a large resource action, which is basically a purge oulemployees. marjorie madfis, then 57, was a digital marketing strategist at ibm. >> we brought them into the world twitter, pinterest, and kept sort of pushing forward ibm. paul: so you'ren the right place at the right time with the right skills? >> yes, i was. yes. the st of my team was. paul: but in 2013, most of madfis's team was shown the door, as were 6000 others at ibm. >> the majority of people who were let go were peoplover 50. paul 61-year-old ed miyoshi had joined ibm rht out of college.

>> i was always the young guy and then suddenly i was not anymore. paul: in 2016 miyhi worked in a unit that ran computer systems for other firms. >> i had been a high performer for many m years sosalary was at the top of the grid. my benefits were higher than to still qualify for the old ibm pension plan. how n you be a young hip company working on all these new fangled things and having a lotp ple with gray hair running around doing it? paul: first, the other members of his team, all older, were ousted. >> i aon my 35th service anniversary and i get a call from my manager. he said, i hate to tell you this, but you're being resource actions. a week for christmas. iwhinteresting, i was hired to do that exact same job as a contractor after i was laid off from ibm. : were you getting paid anywhere near the same amount? >> the first year i worked as a

contractor i made $20,000 less. paul: the next year miyoshi made $40,000 a year less. but he stuck with it until last year. >> one day i come into the office and, you are done. you have to go. >> we are talking to tens and tens of thousands of people. paul: journalist peter gosselin says age bias at ibm was widespread >> basically, 86% of all people ibm laid off in the last five years have been older woers. paul: older than 50? >> yes. paul: ibm has maintained that actions, but in august the equal employment opportunity hemmission determined that company engaged in systetic age discrimination.ction ed miyoshi joined a class action suit against the firm. but ibm is no outlier, ss gosselin. >> across a nationally representative sample of older american workers, 60% of people before they are 70 areaid off. paul: when he was 63 --

>> i myself was laid off from a job. i thought i had a good resume and could get a job, but i was out for a long, long time. paul: he finally raised money to fund his own reporting on age discrimination at nonprofitpr ublica. ex-ibm-er ed miyoshi has plenty of hobbies and may not need the money, but he continues looking for work. >> i have got some things to offer. i have certainly got some skills. i am not ready to watch tv all day for the rest of mlife. paul: after her layoff, marjorie gave up looking. >> i remember having an interview th a young man who came in his jeans, put his feet up othe chair and was textin during the interview. and that was kind of the aha moment that i said, i really don't want to be somebody's mother in a job. paul: instead, madfis is doing something less rewardingll financ but far more emotionally. running a non-profit to teach

jobs skills to women with autism, like her american girl-loving daughter, izzie. >> i am learning how to accept feedback. with customers i have learned how to control my temper. ing aters can be overwhe times.paul: pre-pandemic izzy ld on the job at a secondhand doll store. now, she and her peers meet on zoom. kathy docter? she has been jobless for seven months. >> i am running out of money. i had money saved, but i am running out of money now and i have to pay cobra, which costs an additional $550 a month because i cannot g coverage anywhere else because i have pre-existing conditions. unless i go to wt is left of acare and try to get coverage there, i'm pretty much stuck. i can tell you i will not be able to pay for cobra after the first of theear, because i st can't afford it anymore. paul: you'll go uninsur? >> i will have to.

i don't have any other choice. paul: for the pbs newshour, this paul solman. jue: a sobering story to m us all think every thank you for that. on the newshour online right now, joy harjo will serve a rare third term as united states poet ureate. we explore her newly launched project that collects recordings from dozens of contemporary native american poets digital archive. you n find that on ou website, pbs.org/newshour. that is the newshour for tonight. i am judy woodruff. join us online and again here morrow evening. from all of us, thank you and please stay safe. we will see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour provided by -- >> architect, bee keeper, mentor. advice to help you live your

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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to yn r pbs statom viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its .]ption content and accura >> this is pbs newshour west from weta studios in washington and fromur bureau from the walter cronkite school of journalism from arizona state university. >> you are watching pbs. -everythd g has its season, aneverything has its time.

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