peter: a miami of american accountability. >> today we are able to breathe again. peter: the nation reacts. to the conviction of derek chauvin. >> find the defendant guilty. peter: for the murder of george floyd. now that the trial is over -- >> systemic racism is a stain on our nation's soul. peter: what can washington do to reform policing? and, president biden follows through on his campaign promise to battle climate change. >> no nation can solve this crisis on our own. peter: next. >> this is "washington week." corporate funding is provided by --

>> consumer cellular. kaiser permanente. additional funding provided by the estate of arnold adams and coo and patricia yuen through the yuen found -- and koo and patricia yue through the yuen foundation. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. peter: good evening. welcome to "washington week," i'm peter baker. guilty on all counts. that was the verdict handed down to former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin for the murder ogeorge floyd. there was a sense of relief across the country. in minneapolis, george floyd's brother said this -- >> the world sees his life being extinguished, i could do nothing but watch. especially in that courtroom,

over and over and other again, as my brother was murdered. today, we are able to breathe again. peter: in washington, president biden weighed in. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. those were george floyd's last words. we can't let those words die with him. we have to keep hearing those words. we must not turn away. we can't turn away. peter: later in the show, will other countries trust america to take the lead on climate change? but first, is this historic verdict a watershed moment for race, police reform and bipartisanship on the hill? joining me tonight are josh lederman, correspondent for nbc news. toluse olorunnipa, political investigator for "the washington post." susan page, washington pew roe chief of "usa today" and author of "minneapolis: nancy pelosi

and the lessons of power," and pierre thomas, chief correspondent for abc news. toluse, you're joining us from houston tonight, thank you for joining us. you've been talking to george floyd's family and researching where he grew up. i was struck that his brother told you, i don't want him to be another person on a t-shirt. what do you think he meant by that and what was the week like for them? toluse: george floyd was a single human being, but his story, his experience, his death resonated with millions of americans. i think members of his family, members of his community, realize that this is a person whose death impacted millions of americans having to watch as his life was slipping away from him in that graphic and viral video last year. hisamily wants this to be not just a single moment. they of course appreciated the verdict and the fact that a jury of officer chauvin's peers

decided to convict him of murder. but they don't want it to stop here. they realize there have been other cases over the course of the trial of other individuals killed by police, who were shot by police. and they want that to not be a trend that continues. they want that to end, especially when it comes to minorities and people of color. they realize that george floyd was just one of many who have suffered that fate at the hands of police. they're pushing for changes to the way that we have policing in the country. changes that would restrict qualified um mune -- immunity an other protections police have. changes that would make it illegal to engage in choke holds and other maneuvers that might suffocate human beings the way george floyd was suffocated. and you know, the biden administration and others who have watched this are looking at broader changes so that george floyd is not on that corner in that same way. all of the things that happened in his life leading up to that, from poverty to health issues to addiction, all of those issues are issues that the biden

administration says they want to focus on and that the people that are fighting for justice beyond george floyd, they do not want him to just be one name, with unface on a t-shirt. they want him to be the catalyst for broader, more significant change in race relationsn this country. peter: pierre, it's notoriously difficult to convict police officers. what was different about this case? pierre: at the end of the day, they was tape. we all got to see in real time the man having his life drained out of him by an officer who was utterly indifferent. i think many can't forget the way officer chauvin was so casual as he had his knee on that man's neck. i spoke to a number of law enforcement oicials throughout this ongoing investigation and the trial and not a single one said it was appropriate in terms of way that officer chauvin dealt with george floyd. the question was going to be, was it a criminal act? we now know it was murder. that's what the jury found. law enforcement officials said,

in many ways, they were on trial too. that law enforcement is a difficult job. police officers often have to make split second decisions. but in this case, officer chauvin had ample time, nine minutes and 29 seconds to do the right thing and he did not. peter: josh, just as we had the verdict out of minneapolis we saw another tragic incident in columbus, you were there reporting on it. is this incident with ma'kiah bryant analogous or different? josh: it's a reminder that each incident is very different. it was interesting to see the way it played out. even though ma'kiah bryant was killed before that verdict, it was until after the verdict that you saw it. in columbus you saw twitter light up with congressmens like, here we go again.

one step forward, two steps backwards. and the few hours later, when he police put out body cam video that appeared to show ma'kiah bryant lunging at someone with a knife things started to look more complicated. it was a reminder of the fact that these situations are not one size fits all. they are very specific. and that similar to the gun control discussion is one of the reasons why it's so hard to come up with a single policy solution that's responsive to all of these other incidents. the other remarkable thing that would happen in columbus is the unprecedented speed with which police rushed to put out that body cam footage, literally within hours of the shooting. i think although some of that might have been that police were hoping it would be exculpatory for the officer it was a signal that police are very aware right now that when these types of incidents happen they won't necessarily have the benefit of

the doubt from the public. they're in t going to necessarily have their word taken when they say this police officer was acting in self-defense or in this case acting to save the life of another. that's why we're seeing police departments in some parts of the country try to be more tranarent as one effort that they can take to try to rebuild some of the trust that's been lost. peter: susan, we saw some democrats come under criticism for comments they made related to this. maxine waters, congresswoman from california, said protesters need to be more confrontational over racial justice. we saw nancy pelosi, the subject of your new book, talk about how we should be thank to feel george floyd for sacrificing his life for justice. what do these episodes tell us about the national conversation about race right now? susan: well, that it's complicated. it tells us that nanity pelosi has never been great at the talking out loud part of politics. she's a master of the inside game of politics. it also shows the risk that this becomes yet another cultural

wedge issue. we see -- we do see some bipartisan talks going on in the senate about the police reform act that has already passed the house. all though it passed the house without a single republican vote. on the other hand you see in state legislatures across the country republicans pursuing laws that are designed to make it, to increase this penalties on those who protest and are found to be participating in unlawful protes. we had two states, oklahoma and iowa, designed to protect motorists who might hit protesters with their cars. this is an issue that i think the analogy to the gun issue might be one that is important to keep in mind. you have these terrible incidents that hurt everyone's consciences. they shock the nation. they bring calls for reforms. yet it is very difficult to actual get legislation passed. peter: tonight we also need to talk about darnel; a fraser, the

1-year-old armed only with her phone who recorded george floyd's death. those -- that recording played a critical role in thisrial. would the prosetion have played at the same way or would there even have been a prosecution had there not been video? toluse: there was no deny whappingd to -- -- pierre: you look at the statement put out by the minneapolis police department after george floyd's death, they said he died of a medical incident no force was used. they highlighted that no weapons were used. they didn't mention that a knee was place odd then neck for several minutes. and it was the video evidence that caused there to be this outcry. it was the video released to the public that caused a swift action by the prosecutors to take this case on, to charge this case, to charge derek chauvin not only with manslaughter but with murder.

it's very rare to see a police officer chaed with murder. i don't think that if we did not have this video tape by a bystander, by a member of the publicing we would have had that high level of a charge and conviction which is even more rare than a charge on all of those counts. so it's pretty clear that the role of the public, the role of citizen journalists in some ways, citizen activists who see what they see as wrongdoing and can take out their phone and record has led to a heightened level of accountable for police officers and that is the future. any time there's an arrest that may seem like it's not taking plac in the right way, you can expect there to be cameras following this as it happens. so think it's pretty clear that we have seen a sea change with this conviction and we can expect police officers to have the expectation that no matter what they're doing, they are being watched. peter: let's turn to the federal side of the story. pierre sat down with attorney general merrick garland on monday.

his first interview since his nat confirmation. this is what garland ha had to say on race and policing. >> do you believe there is still pockets of racism and bias within law enforcement? and how widespread do you think it is? >> racism is an american problem. we do not yet have equal justice under law. and as i said, i think this is an important part of the role of the justice department. peter: what message is the attorney general sending to law enforcement agencies across the country? pierre: he seems to understand that this is a broad issue, that african-americans in particular are very concerned about being treated as a suspect first and citizen second. we did an investigation last year and found in 800 jurisdictions, african-americans were five times more likely to be arrested than their white counterparts in 250 of those juresdibs we found that they were 10 times more likely to be arrested -- to be pulled over or

arrested. and basically, peter, at the end of the day, what the a.g. is saying, he's putting law enforcement on notice that he understands that racism is an issue. he understands that police departments have some issues in terms of how they enforce the law. an he is saying he's going to do more pattern or practice investigations where they look at whole departments and determine whether there's bias in the execution of enforcement. peter: susan, t toluse referred to this earlier, president biden seems to be taking strong words but leaving to it lawmakers to see if they can negotiate a bipartisan bill. senator tim scott, republican from south carolina is taking the lead for the republican side. is there some real chance of progress here? susan: i think there is some chance of progress here. some chance of action. tim scott has been active on this issue. he's got some standing. republicans just announced he'll

be giving the republican response to president biden's big speech, his first speech to the joint session of congress xt week. so it's possible. but it's hard. you have to look at the railroad on this issue. the big partisan divide. but is it possible that the senate could get those 10 additional republican votes you need to get past a filibuster, to get a law enacted that would do things like ban choke holds, ban no-knock warrants, increase the accountability of police for their actions? it's possible. on the other hand, you know, the safe bet in washington for years has been to bet on partisanship and gridlock. i guess i'm not quite ready to put my money on the idea of bipartisan action on this. peter: josh, as susan referenced, some of the states are going the other direction. republican lawmakers are pushing legislation that would actually crack down on some of these protests, make it easier for the police to arrest and charge protesters that they think got

out of line. you were in columbus, what would that mean for the protest you starred to see in ohio? josh: it was interesting. we really saw police back off and try to take a low profile after this shooting in columbus. essentially let people air the grievances they might be feeling. the interesting thing about these efforts to pass laws locally around the country is, you actually don't hear police unions or law enforcement agencies cling for that. there are plenty of laws on the books already that if someone is rioting, looting, causing vience, police can use those laws to arrest and prosecute them. instead, what we seem to be seeing from a lot of these republican legislatetures is the fact that this law and order message is one that's been politically potent for them. we saw how republicans nationally were able to use this message about law and order as well as trying to play up the defund the police language from democrats to win back a number

of house seats in the house in this past election. this seems to be a message that speaks very directly to their base. it's a message that president trump had made kind of centralized dogma for the republican party right now. and so you see a republican state and local lawmakers wanting to signal to voters that they are going to act tough on the perception of people acting out even though we're not seeing police say that's something they need to do their jobs. peter: l's turn now to the climate crisis. a crucial foreign policy test for president biden. the unid states hosted a virtual global summit this week coinciding with earth day. biden laid out an ambitious goal for the united states and urged quick answer. >> the united states sets out on the road to cut greenhouse gases in half. in half by the end of this decade. the sig are unmistakable. the science is undeniable.

the cost of inaction is -- keeps mowning. the united states isn't waiting. we are resolving to take action. peter: but the united states can't go it alone and needs to convince other country, including adversaries like china an russia, to also tackle chi mat change. josh, you cover the biden administration an climate policy. does the united states have enough credible wit the rest of the world after getting into paris, out of paris, back into paris, to address this tpwhrobal crisis? josh: there's no doubt there's a global sigh of relief that the u.s. at least rhetorically is back in the game. everyone would rather have the u.s. back in the paris climate agreement with a president who acknowledges that climate change is real and that serious action needs to be taken. that said, there is a real credibility gap that you put your finger on, peter. part of it is the way countries have seen this policy ping-pong back and forth as the administration has changed hands. they get our political system as well as we do.

they understand if something is not codified in law that it's fairly easily done when the white house -- undone when the white house changes hands. that's why they are really looking to see whether the biden administration is going to be able to back up these pledges that they have made with concrete action including stuff that can actually pass congress. that's still a very steep climb for the biden administration. and one reason that we're seeing a lot of foreign diplomats, including adversaries like china, raise a lot of skepticism about how seriously the u.s. is actually taking this. peter: toluse, you covered the white house when president trump was in office. what does this tell us about how biden will interact with the international community and what difference it makes and what's the reaction from leaders around the world to his leadership? toluse: president biden has a lot of work to do after four years of turbulence under president trump on this and a number of global issues. there are a number of leaders

around the world that are wondering whether or not they can count on the u.s. they have seen our politics and political leadership change drastically from the trump administration to the biden administration. we saw president trump pull out of all kinds of deals an agreements that have been signed by previous administrations. so biden is trying to convince the world that america is back that trump was an aberration, and that, you know, the united states can be counted on. but there's a lot of skepticism in the global community about whether or not that is the case around whether or not world leaders and the global community can count on the united states to retain its leadership role and to retain some level of consistency across administrations even as biden is pressing for very drastic reductions in carbon emissions. there's a lot of skepticism the global community that the next president may not stand by those commitments and they may not stand the test of time. so biden has a lot of work to do. he's facing a skeptical crowd on the global stage. but it is his very important

task and very important responsibility to carry out the role that he says he's going to play which is being the global leader that brings america back to the world stage. just remains to be seen whether or not he can be successful in doing that. peter: susan, it was stribing to see china and russia's leaders joining president biden for this summit. at the same time, having great tensions with them. china pressuring taiwan. russia pressuring ukraine. now putin pulled back some of the troops from the border with ukraine this week. but how does biden go ahead and try to strike cooperation on climate change at the same time he's confronting them on other issues? susan: quite the zoom call. it was really quite remarkable. we shouldn't maybe lose sight of that. it was a -- the zoom call was a very visual demonstration of the reality that no nation, not even this united states, can deal with climate change by itself. it's got to be global.

you can't leave people out. that's why you saw this effort to engage with ad ver sayres like russia and china. i think your question, can we cooperate with them on the issue of climate while confronting them on territorial ambitions and on human rights and on interference in our election carnings we do that at the same time? i don't think we know. i think that president biden would say we don't have a choice. that it is our only option. and maybe the first test for biden will come not with the foreign leaders but in passing this big infrastructure bill which is the first big building block in showing that the united states is prepared to make the kinds of investments and commitments that would convince the world that we are in this for the long haul. peter: pierre, you know president trump thought climate change was mainly an effort to restrict business. he rolled back a lot of regulations in order to pump the economy. does the department of justice

anticipate lawsuits or legal challenges if the biden administration begins to undo some of the regulatory rollbacks that president trump put in place? pierre: another example that elections have consequences. i'm getting the sense from this deform o.j. he'll be listening to the white house, looking at the issue of climate change,al regulations, i expect the justice department wl be much more engaged with the e.p.a. looking at how the chaels in weather and these things impact communities. one of the things you have heard the biden administration talk about openly is how climate change and these environmental issues affect dierent kinds of communities. people of color. particularly in urban areas often have some of the worst environmental issues they face. everyone remembers the situation in flint. there's information about how the pollution affects some of the communities in urban centers as well. so i do expect you'll see a much more engaged justice department

taking action when necessary. peter: we've got about a minute left. this kind of commitment requires policies that ultimately will upend american society in some ways. who would be the biggest winners and who could be the biggest losers if we go forward with that? josh: well, the biggest winners are likely to be people who are deeply involved in the industries that are going to be creating these solutions. so you see the auto industry moving quickly toward electric vehicles. utilities will be relied on more to produce more power as we electrify parts of these sectors. the losers, obviously, there are going to be jobs lost in fossil fuels as we transition away from that. that's why you see the biden administration focus odden what they call a just transition. trying to make sure we are creating not just opportunities in green jobs but that we are aligning those with the parts of the country where we're going to lose jobs and with the skill sets and individuals who need to make sure that they have a good pay, reliable job in the future

even as we stop using these dirtier fuels we have to phase out. peter: that sounds rather disconcerting, i think, to many americans even as others are cheering on this kind of ambition. thank you very much, josh, for helping us us out with that. thank you everybody else. before we go, america lost a political legend this week. former vice president walter mondale died on monday. he served as close partner to president jimmy carter before running as democratic presidential nominee in 19 4, losing to ronald reagan. he reinvented the job of vice president an made it a partner for the president in a way that every vice president has since then. susan, you knew vice president mondale, his passing is a landmark moment. give us 15 seconds of what his parture tells us about how washington has changed? susan: he was a happy warrior. and we could all be well served,

i think, for more happy warriors on capitol hill. he was a big liberal. but he was a friend with conservatives as well and working on things, issues, he thought were important. peter: we have to leave it there for tonight. many thanks to josh, toluse, susan, and pierre for their insighs and thank you for joining us. we'll talk with susan about her mu book on our "washington week bookshelf," catch it live on our website, facebook and youtube at 8:30. i'm peter bak. good night from washington. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by

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