captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, boosting the vaccine-- a c.d.c. advisory panel approves a third dose of pfizer's shot for americans most vulnerable to developing severe cases of covid-19. then, border crisis-- a top diplomat resigns, protesting what he calls the biden administration's "inhumane" treatment of haitian immigrants in del rio, texas. and, politics and the high court. justice stephen breyer shares some of what goes into his thinking about his retirement considerations, and weighs in on concerns the supreme court is too political. >> you are there not for the

democrats, not for the republicans, not for the party of the president who appointed you. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> at fidelity, changing plans is always part of the plan.

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>> woodruff: the effort to vaccinate millions of americans against covid-19 is moving toward a new phase tonight. an advisory panel for the centers for disease control and prevention today recommended booster shots of the pfizer vaccine for people 65 and older, nursing home residents, and those between 50 and 64 years old with underlying health issues. amna nawaz has more. >>az: judy, the c.d.c. panel also said boosters can be recommending a third shot for those considered high risk because of occupational setting. this all comes after the f.d.a. last night granted emergency use of pfizer boosters for vulnerable populations. for perspective on all this, i'm joined by kirsten bibbins- domingo. she is a physician, epidemiologist and professor at the university of california, san francisco. dr. bibbins-domingo, welcome

back to the newshour. thanks for making the time. so the c.d.c. panel recommends this pfizer booster for a wide swath of americans. all adults they consider high risks because of their jobs were not included. what did you make of that decision? >> it's important to know that many people are at high risk because of their jobs. but really they're at high risk because of having an exposure to coronavirus and having repeated exposures to coronavirus, not necessarily fromaving a severe outcome. and i think that's what they were looking at the data. but importantly, for all of those individuals, they would be covered by the broader c.d.c. recommendation, in particular, if they're older or if they have an underlying chronic condition. >> we know that these recommendations right-hand binding. do you think states could interpret them differently and maybe lower the barrier for boosters, depending on their own vulnerable populations? >> right. i think what you'll see here, because my understanding is that it's mostly going to be self-attestation-- that is,

we're trying to lower the barrier so individuals can self-identify in order to get their boosters. what you'll see, i suspect, is a lot of people who are anxious to have the boosters who have already been vaccinated will rush out to get them. and i think what the question is, is how individual states really focus efforts on making sure they get the word out to people who are additionally vulnerable because of occupation, or because they might not understand or hear the c.d.c. message as it's delivered today. >> now, we should clarify, we're just talking about the pfizer vaccine. that was the only vaccine up for discsion today. it's about 100 million americans or so who have gotten both doses of that particular vaccine. we know moderna and johnson & johnson are asking the same approval. what do you make them rolling this out one vaccine at a time? is that going to lead to some confusion? >> absolute. i think the c.d.c. and the f.d.a. are are following the science, and unfortunately, the science comes in fits and starts and piecemeal.

the challenge is, of course, in the messaging. because i think more many americans it will be the question, "well, i got moderna, or i got j&j, what should i do?" and there we don't have guidance from the c.d.c. o what to do. i think the urgency is there to help have a unified message for all adults on what to do if you're six months out from your vaccination. i think there's particular urgency for j&j, where we know the efficacy has been a little bit lower, to get that second dose for the one-shot vaccine into people. and i suspect that's what you'll see more discussion and urgency around in the coming weeks and months. >> dr. bibbins-domingo, this part stood out to me from the panel debate today. we should remind people, 55% of eligible americans are fully vaccinated. the data they presented today show that people who are already vaccinated have a very high interest in getting a booster shot, right. 76%, 80% of those people say they want that third shot. among the unvaccinated the data showed the need for a booster

could make those people less likely to get vaccinated att all. what does that say to you about the push for boosters? >> i know, that was a very distressing part of the presentation today. because ultimately, even though we want to protect those who are most at risk for severe outcomes-- and that is the effort and the spirit behind the booster recommendation today-- we ultimately don't have good control in this pandemic, unless we get first- and second-dose shots to those who are not yet vaccinated. and i think you see in the debate today and in the messaging, the real need to both emphasize people who are not vaccinated get the vaccine, and worry, concern that the very fact ofpproving a booster might lead those people to missing understand the message that they don't need to get the vaccination at all. >> dr. bibbins-domingo in the minute or so we have left, i just want to ask you about where we are right now. the states who do have the lower vaccination rates are seeing higher average covid deaths. nationwide the u.s. is reporting

over 2,000 daily deaths. that's the highest seven-day average since march. have those numbers peaked? where are we? >> right. i think what we're seeing today is exactly this play out. we have these highly effective tools in the vaccines, but we haven't been able to get them into as many people as is necessary to really turn the tide in this pandemic. the boosters are going to help. they were going to help those who are most vulnerable to severe outcomes. but our path forward, especially as the data suggests today and the urgency of the crisis today really is to make sure we get as many as first and second doses into as many people as possible. that's the path forward. >> that is dr. kirsten bibbins-domingo, the university of california, san francisco, joining us tonight. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, african leaders appealed to rich nations today not to

give booster shots before others obtain a first dose. at the u.n. general assembly, namibia's president called it "vaccine apartheid." south africa's president pointed to a stark disparity. >> it is an indictment on humanity that more than 82% of the world's vaccine doses have been acquired by wealthy countries, while less than 1% has gone to low-income countries. >> woodruff: we'll take a closer look at vaccination efforts in uganda later in the program. the u.s. special envoy to haiti resigned in protest today, over expelling haitian migrants back to that troubled nation. daniel foote called it inhumane and counterproductive. u.s. officials say 1,400 haitians have been expelled. about 4,000 remain near del rio, texas. and thousands have been returned to mexico or released in the u.s. we'll get details, after the news summary.

a shooting today in tennessee left two dead, including the gunman, and 12 wounded. it happened at a grocery store in collierville, about 30 miles east of memphis. police say the shooter opened fire, then turned the gun on himself. there was no word on a motive. in louisiana, a federal grand jury has indicted former state policeman jacob brown for beating a black man with a metal flashlight, in 2019. he's accused of violating the civil rights of aaron bowman. federal officials are investigating the beatings of at least three black men by louisiana troopers in recent years. democratic congressional leaders now say they have a framework deal to pay for a huge spending measure covering social and environmental programs. they gave no details today. and, there's no agement on the final size of the bill. party leaders, including house speaker nancy pelosi, said they still favor $3.5 trillion. >> we're finalizing on the

outlays side, so if we need more, we need less, that will impact the choices we make there. but this was great progress. >> woodruff: party progressives and moderates remain divided over how big the spending bill should be. the u.s. environmental protection agency has finalized a rule to sharply limit the use of coolant gases known as h.f.c.'s. the goal is a reduction of 85 percent in the next 15 years. h.f.c.'s help cool refrigerators and air conditioners, but scientists say they help fuel global warming. california is now the first state to bar amazon and other giant warehouse employers from punishing or firing workers over productivity quotas. governor gavin newsom signed the bill on wednesday. backers say the quotas can drive up workplace injuries. on wall street, stocks rallied again as concerns eased about federal reserve policy. the dow jones industrial average

was up 506 points to close at 34,764. the nasdaq rose 155 points. the s&p 500 added 53. and, an ancient clay tablet was repatriated to iraq today. the "gilgamesh dream" tablet is 3,500 years old. officials say it was illegally imported to the u.s. in 2003, and wound up in the private "museum of the bible" in washington, d.c. federal agents seized it in 2019. still to come on the newshour: one country's desperate battle to fight the delta variant, amid a scarce supply of vaccines. justice stephen breyer on his new book about why the supreme court isn't as political as some believe. the united states and the european union are teaming up to tackle climate change. and much more.

>> woodruff: it is a notable show of dissent on immigration and foreign policy, from someone who was a senior diplomat in the biden administration, up until yesterday. the resignation of the u.s. special envoy to haiti, daniel foote, puts the spotlight again on the administration, and its actions toward the crowd of mostly haitian migrants in del rio, texas. our own yamiche alcindor broke the ory of the special envoy's resignation, and she joins me now. so, yamiche, hello. what more do we know about his decision? what was behind it. >> well, the former envoy to haiti, daniel foote, essentially said he didn't have a voice in this administration. he said he was ignored. he also said he didn't want to be connected to what he saw as cruel and inhumane policies. he said it was wrong to be deporting haitians back to haiti because that island nation is facing a number of crises,

including the aftermath of the political turmoil, the assassination of the president as well as an earthquake that hit the nation last month. i want to read part of daniel foote's letter because it was a blistering letter. "i will not be associated with the united states' inhumane, counterproductive decision to deport thousands of haitian refugees. the collapsed state is unable to provide security or basic service and more refugees will fuel more desperation and crimes." there he is saying haiti is being harmed by the united states sending back haitian migrts. he also said the united states shouldn't be supporting and backing the current prime minister of haiti, saying the united states should be working with civil society, which is something we told our viewers over and over again, which is what the civil society has been pleading with the biden administration to do. that said, officials in the biden administration have been pushing back very hard on daniel foote. they have been saying his allegallegations are false, thas

mischaracterizing why he resigning. the department secretary of state and the white house press secretary say his views were valued and heard. they i spoke to a senior administration official who said daniel foote never actually raised objections to haitians being deported or their treatment on the border. that being said, that, of course, is something daniel foote takes issue with. >> woodruff: you are have also been in touch with a number of haitian leaders, haitian activist who have been very critical of the biden administration's response. what are theyaying and what is the administration saying to that? >> there is a lot of outrage. people are saying this is cruel the way the united states is treating haitian migrants. i talked to one activist, a councilman in north miami florida and the chairman of the national haitian american network. here's what he had to say. >> they need to find a solution for those who are trying to get here, to treat them fairly. we don't know what's the difference between this

administration and the previous administration. so this is not what i think anyone has signed up for. >> he also said that president biden's lence on this speaks volumes. and i pushed the white house press secretary, gen psaki on this issue, on president biden not speak out. here is what she said. why is he not using the bully pulpit to speak out forcefully himself on the treatment of haitians? >> his point of view is also reflectedly in the actions that have been taken through the administration, including the investigation, including the change in policy. the secretary of homeland security oversees these efforts and has been quite outspoken and quite visible on what steps we should take moving forward. and he certainly may still speak to it. >> so that was the white house press secretary talking about a number of changing policies. part of the policies that changed is that the department of homeland security is has now launched an investigation into the images of border patrol agents on horseback, using reins

againsmigrants. they're suspending the horse patrol unit in del rio, texas. that is a big change they announced today. that being said, activists want to see more done. >> woodruff: what is known about what is going on right now about the del rio crossing in texas, where many of these migrants still are? and what happens next? >> at its peak the migrant camp s at 14,000 people living in squalid conditions with no food, with very little access to water. now it's down to about 3,000 or 4,000 people, officials say. they also say, though, that the deportations are going to continue. the repatriatation flights-- there have been 13 so far-- they're going to continue because of title 42, the trump-era law connected to public health. that being sashed the administration has also said, some families, some young children, some pregnant women they're going to be allowed it stay in the united states. and sources tell me the majority of these migrants are being allowed to stay in the united states now. we will have to wamp to see if there are any other policy

changes. activists are saying the way some of these migrants are being treated, they're being treated like slaves and that's an accusation made out of passion and outrage. >> woodruff: sump a fast-moving story and i know you are continuing to stay on top of it. yamiche, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: yesterday's announcement by the biden administration to donate 500 million doses to developing countries aims to address the lopsided distribution of vaccines that has exacerbated in africa, uganda is still struling to vaccinate its most at-risk groups. so far, there have been more than 120,000 recorded cases of covid-19 and just over 3100 deaths, but the real numbers are likely much higher. special correspondent fred de sam lazaro reports from kampala.

>> reporter: it is a rare-and random-event in uganda: a vaccination site that actually has vaccines. about 200 astrazeneca doses were dispensed to people like eunice mwinike who'd tried before and failed to get a shot. >> i tried once, then i waited for three months. then it came. >> reporter:ollege instructor joseph okiror got his shot because teachers are getting priority. >> i feel i'm lucky, because i deal with a lot of students. and as a result, i made it. >> reporter: they are among the few. only 2.3% percent of the country's 44 million people have received their first dose. the wait for a second can stretch far beyond the recommended eight to 12 weeks. some of the country's vaccines have come from covax, the u.n- baed sharing initiative whose supply has fallen far short of its goals.

the government's plans to purchase directly from india fell through after that country stopped exporting vaccines amid its own recent devastating surge. so vaccination sites sit empty, hastily brought into service whenever doses arrive, many of them donations from western countries and china, consignments varying by brand, many from surpluses nearg their expiration date. >> we appreciate the dose sharing, we do appreciate. but it doesn't begin, even, to address the needs. >> reporter: dr. jane ruth aceng is uganda's minister of health. >> other cntries are thinking about a third dose, a booster dose. and we are just beginning to say, how do we get teachers vaccinated? should the african continent that has been so marginalized in vaccine distribution, sit back and say, let us close our economies and wait for vaccines to come in?

>> reporter: in april 2020, with many countries experiencing infection surges, uganda implemented a strict lockdown-- shutting down schools, most travel, even religious gatherings. that appeared to contain the virus-until the delta variant emerged in june. most of uganda's cases, and some 3100 deaths have occurred since, overwhelming the spartan health care system-until the government clamped down with another six week lockdown. >> it was very severe. we had about 30 patients in the hospital. and yes, it was straining because there was, it wasn't set up specifically to manage that kind of volume of covid patients. >> reporter: dr. elias kumbakumba is on a covid task force at the main government hospital in mbarara, uganda's second largest city. how many ventilators do you have? >> we have 10. but a few of them, i think about three, are not as functional as they should. >> reporter: and this is a

hospital that is serving four million. >> four million people in the region and beyond. >> reporter: most of those people would find it hard to even get to is hospital. transportation is a barrier for over half the population who earn less than two dollars a day-on days they actually work. and during lockdowns, work and transportation became even more scarce. private providers may live closer, but for many, they are unaffordable. dr. charles kasozi says he's tried to keep his prices affordable in his modest dispensary catering to low income neighbors near the town of entebbe. at the peak, he had 20 covid patients and struggled to obtain oxygen and medication. how much does it cost to ventilate a patient with covid? >> it may cost two to three millions, per day. >> reporter: two to three million? >> if needed, per day. >> reporter: that's between $600 and $800 u.s. dollars per day. so you think a lot of people die in their homes?

>> some people died in their homes, because they cannot pay their hospital bills. >> reporter: stories are rife of price gouging in private hospitals. >> before you're treated, you must present a land title, which most ugandans... >> reporter: to pay for the care? >> yeah, but before th even touch your patient. some would ask for land title, a huge deposit. >> reporter: allana kembabazi, a yale-educated attorney and activist with uganda's initiative for social and economic rights, says ugandans have been failed twice. >> by the international community, because we just couldn't get the vaccines in sufficient amounts that needed, but also by our own government, which should have taken more measures to strengthen our public health systems. >> reporter: uganda received more than $800 million in foreign assistance to cope with the covid crisis, much of it in the form of loans from agencies like the world bank. critics say the government's been less than transparent about how that money was or is being spent. the government has also come

under fire for being out of touch with the widespread suffering here. one recent example, the purchase of new vehicles for uganda's 500 plus members of parliament. >> ridiculous budget to get cars, when y sit when you're telling teachers, and you' telling parents, you can't send your kids into school until all the teachers are vaccine, until all kids after above 12 are vaccinated? so where are your priorities? >> reporter: health minister aceng contends that's not the issue. >> we have the money, we've had the money from the outset. covax will tell you, you will get vaccines between now and 2022 december. i think the answer to this is for africa to invest in its own vaccine production. >>reporter: several african nations are able to manufacture vaccines. the hurdle; trade negotiations over the transfer of intellectual property rights and also the export of some vaccine ingredients.

>> the idea that we're all in this togher, it was just a lie. >> are you going to close your boundaries forever? are your people never going to travel? how do they think this disease spread? >> reporter: without vaccines, uganda's has imposed lockdowns. minister aceng says these are not only unaffordable any more. they're unenforceable. >> everybody's tired. the focus of most people has now moved away from survival in, keeping safe from the ndemic, to economic survival, where i need to get food on the plate. >> reporter: of the survivors, she and others say none will pay a heavier price than children in a country where half the population is younger than 14. at the vaccination site, sisters winnie and deborah, 11 and2, sell bananas so they may eat each night.

>> ( translated ): i loved studying. >> reporter: what was your favorite subject? >> ( translated ): i liked mathematics and social sciences, >> reporter: the government hopes to reopen schools in the weeks ahead, but these sisters and millions of others-their families financially wiped out- may not return soon, if ever. another troubling sign: child labor-which had been declining for two decades in uganda and elsewhere, saw an increase in 2020, a trend the u.n. says is getting much worse in 2021. we'll explore that issue in next report. for the pbs newshour, i'm fred de sam lazaro in kampala. >> woodruff: fred's reporting is in partnership with the under- told stories project at the university of st. thomas in minnesota. >> woodruff: justice stephen breyer heads into a new supreme court term soon, facing a docket

of hot-button issues and pressure from progressives to retire. i spoke earlier with the court's senior liberal justice about his new book, "the authority of the court and the peril of politics." justice stephen breyer, thank you very much for joining us. you have written six other books, but none of them were this size and a book you can hold in one hand somehow less intimidating than the book you pick up from a supreme court justice. who are you trying to reach? >> i wanted to reach the high school students, college students, law school students, and in particular, people who are not lawyers, but who are intereed, at least in how i've seen the court work over 27 years. >> woodruff: you posit in the book, justice breyer, that the court at even in this fraught political time that the supreme court of the united states has managed to maintain its

authority with the american people. and at one point you cite a poll, a pew poll in 2019 that showed 62% of americans had a favorable opinion of the court. but there is a marquette university law school poll out just this month that shows approval of the court is at 49%. >> and it went down. but polls go like that, you know, and the question-- the one difference, i think between the court, if i had to pick one and other government institutions, is we move on a different time frame. we have a slow time frame. i think our cases are not well decided, usually unless we have time to think about it. and if you were there, you would discover the same thing. instead of having to get out something in two hours, you would have two months or three months or four months. and lots of other people have worked on this case. and you have a lot of briefs and

a lot of information and you sit back and digest it and try to see a bigger picture. >> woodruff: and it's on that basis, among others, that you argue that the court is not politicized. you cite cases in recent years that didn't go you said, as one might thought, based on which presidennominated which justice. but we did just see justice breyer, a majority of the court allow a clearly unconstitutional law to take effect in the state of texas that violates the rights of women. the majority even rejected the chief justice's alternative, temporarily blocking it from going into effect until lower courts could take a look. what about that? >> well, it was a procedural decision. it wasn't they didn't speak. no one did. on the merits of the texas law and on that procedural decision, i dissented along with the chief justice and others. and the reason was just what

we've been talking about. it was an important case, even procedurally on those emerncy matters. and so four of us thought we should take more time. now, that was really the issue. and five thought, no, we should go ahead. and there we are. >> woodruff: procedural and yet it has real life human consequences for women in the state of texas. >> i could not agree with you more. i was one of the reasons i wanted to take it easy, time. my own dissent was to block the law until we can have the time to figure out just what is going on. now that i of course, i think i'm right. i think i'm right. whenever i dissent, i think i always think i'm right. that's why i write what i write. but no one in the united states is going to get decisions that he or she likes all the time. >> woodruff: you argue so much

to ask you about in this book, justice breyer, yowrite early on that the news media partly responsible, you say, for changing public perceptions of the court. but what about the court itself, the decisions the court makes? i mean, the court has made the decision, for example, to take up the 15 week mississippi abortion ban, which you're going to be hearing in december, even when a very conservativeower court had found that unconstitutional. the supreme court made the decision to take it up. >> four votes takes it. and so i can't really go into i can't even tell you who were the fou so you're not sure and maybe you are fairly sure, but noneeless. it's in what's in their minds, what's in their minds. >> woodruf but my point is that's a court decision. >> it's a court decision but for ople grant cert. if it's a grant, a full heing, it takes four people.

>> woodruff: and in that vein, coming up this term, you have the mississippi case. you have a new york guns case. you may have an affirmative action case. wot the court itself be responsible for how the public sees it? if we see if we end up seeing a series of one sided decisions on these some of these hot button cases like this just in the next few terms? >> well, of course, the court will be responsible. but what that means to me is there are large numbers of hot button cases. i mean, think of the warren court and its efforts to desegregate the south. think of justice brennan in the major cases that he wrote on free speech. think of the new deal core that was making changes of really a dramatic nature. think of the court after the civil war compared to the court before the civil war. there are very long periods of

time where the court does change its outlook. and looking at that kind of thing, it's not exactly what the ordinary person means by political. it's not that they're junior varsity politicians. >> woodruff: you and justice amy coney barrett are both now speaking publicly about how the supreme court is not political. but if someone's a democrat or an independent and they see a republican denied even a senate vote for a very qualified candidate like merrick garland, if they then see the senate rules change so that a republican nominee, neil gorsuch, can be confirmed, then a partisan vote confirm. right. what a week. less than a week before a presidential election confirmed justice. republican appointee justice barrett. that sounds like a political stacked deck to many americans. >> that is one of the most amazing things, because i agree

with you 100% that the process, the process of appointing a judge, me too, it seems very political. yes, but what's an astounding thing, and i've learned that over more than the 27 years is when a man or woman puts on a judicial robe. i mean, i put on that robe many years ago and one of the great mores of both the supreme court and the lower court is you absorb it over time. it's a great honor to be a federal judge. it is a great privilege. and one of the things that comes along with that privilege is that you are there not for the democrats, not for the republicans, not for the party of the president who appointed you. >> woodruff: you also write justice breyer about the danger of trying to remake the court, adding justices making other changes.

the question comes up about term limits for justices. why doesn't it make sense for at least are the united states congress for a president to look at that? there's as you know, there's a commission looking at it right now. >> but term limits, the term limits, i've said often quite a lot for over aeriod of years. i see no objection really to term limits. if they're long, you don't want to short term because you don't want the person in that job thinking about his next job. but if they're long terms. i don't think there'd be a big difference. >> woodruff: is there any other change to the court that you think in your mind would not do harm to the to the institution? >> i haven't thought, you know, what i said about the term about the expanding the court is i said, you have to think carefully about it. and i want people to think about it before they jump into something like that. in light of the history,

primarily that history is in ere, because i want people to understand how long a time it's taken in our history before people are willing to accept courts as making decisions that normally they should follow. and indeed, that's part of a rule of law. that's a little abstract point of view. why? because they will accept this document. the constitution is setting forth a rule of law for resolving many, not all disputes among them. no, it's better than the alternatives. that's what churchill said or somebody said. and they're sure. right, because the alternatives are violence and war and all kinds of trouble. >> woodruff: it's not in the book. but i want to ask you about your future. and you've said you won't answer

questions about it, but you have said that as of now, you have no plans to retire. my question is, after 27 years on the court, what time frame are you talking about in the coming year? are you saying you plan- >> well what i actually have said, which i'm happy, not happy, but i'm certainly willing to repeat. but i mean, i've said that it's in my mind that, of course, there are many different considerations and i haven't made up my mind definitely just exactly when. but i don't want to die on the court. and before then, i would like to retire. and just when that will be, i have not fully decided. and i think this isn't the place of the time where i want to go into it in depth. >> woodruff: have you spoken with other justices about that? >> that's one of the things i haven't answered yet. >> woodruff: how about, have you spoken to president biden about it? >> that's one of the things, i

start down that road. who have you talked to about it? >> woodruff: the idea, you and i were just speaking about this, the idea of retiring for anyone is a difficult question. >> oh, well, it might be much nicer for me personally. if there were a long time limit. i wouldn't have to worry about this. >> woodruff: but, but you've known others who've wrestled with the decision. do you think there's a right way to think about it and a wrong way? >> i have looked at what people have done in the past. now i've gone beyond what i said. i'll go that far. i have looked at what people have done in the past. >> woodruff: including other justices? >> oh, those are the ones who are most relevant, yes. >> woodruff: justice breyer, do you think it makes a difference when you step down, whether there's a not only a democrat in the white house, but a democratic majority in the senate? >> yeah, probably. who, i mean, i don't know for sure, no one ever knows.

and to what extent you take that kind of thing into account, it's a personal decision. justice scalia, justice rehnquist have said you do take that kind of thing into account. others have been more reluctant to do it. so it's in the mix. >> woodrf: in the mix. different question. >> good. >> woodruff: finally, about the court, and that is the court consists almost entirely of justices who graduated from harvard or yale law school, almost entirely of justices who've been appellate court judges, no one since justice sandra day o'connor has faced a voter. do you think it would be healthy for e court, good for the country-- >> yes. >> woodruff: to have justices face-- >> yes. i mean, look at justice black, a great justice, he'd been a senator. earl warren had been a governor. harold burton had been the mayor of a city. and you don't want all one thing or another thing, but having a mix of backgrounds, a mix of different experiences, other

things being equal, is good for the court, in my opinion. >> woodruff: justice breyer, thank you very much. the book is "the authority of the court and the peril of politics." >> thank you, thank you. >> woodruff: the top american and european climate envoys met in washington today to coordinate their efforts ahead of a major climate summit. nick schifrin sits down with the envoys for their first joint interview. >> schifrin: the climate crisis is here. you can see it in the extreme weather, from floods to fire. and you can see it in the data: the u.n. warns that unless the world acts faster than it's already promised, temperatures will rise to catastrophic, irreversible levels. the u.s. calls the upcoming climate summit the last chance for the world to avoid disaster.

for more on that, i'm joined by john kerry, the president's special envoy on climate, and his european counterpart, frans timmermans, executive vice president of the european commission. welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> to the newshour. john kerry, let me start with you. there have been three decades of negotiations on climate change, and the bottom line is emissions have gone up. does that suggest, at the end of the day, the world has approached this in the wrong way? >> yes. it has not raised the ambitions of the level that we need to. the sifts are clear. the scientists are clear now. we have a certain period of time this decade within which we have to implement, make and implement key decisions to avoid the worst consequences of the climate crisis. happily, on the good side, the united states, the e.u., the u.k., japan, canada, have all made commitments of reduction of emissions that do put us within range of keeping the 1.5-degree

mit in warming, to keep that alive. but unless we are joined by other countries with sufficient levels of ambition in this next decade, to race thursday a 45% or greater reductions that the scientists have called for, we're in trouble. trouble? >> we are, but we can fix it. that's the good news. but it had to come to this. it had to come all this erratic weather patterns, to all the tornadoes and storms and failed harvests before people understood how serious the situation is. but we can still fix it. >> we're sitting here in washington, and i want to ask you a little bit about american politics. and i'm struck by something that an indian official said to you, mr. kerry, recently. what happens if the next republican president once again pulls out of the paris climate accord. frans timmermans, let me start with you. is the u.s. a reliable partner on climate >> yes, i think it is, and it

will be. by the way, i'm not so sure there will be a next republican president. but that's another discussion. even if there is, corporate america is moving in the right direction at lightning speed. and as i know, the repubcan party usually listens quite well to corporate america, and they will have to wake up and smell the coffee and i'm pretty confident it will happen. >> the u.s. is not on track to meet its own goal of cutting emissions of 28% by 2025. what does it say, john kerry, about the u.s.' commitment to climate change that the president's agenda on climate, frankly, can be stopped by a senator who happens to have a lot of ties to coal and gas? >> i think everybody understands that this is a critical moment. and more and more republicans on the hill are beginning to try to hunt around for some way to be able to respond to this. but, you know, on your former question, i think it's impossible for any futu politician to reverse what the private sector is going to be

investing in remarkably heavily. ford motor company, g.m., have committed by 203050% of the cars they're selling are going to be electric. i don't think any politician would stand up and try to reverse the trillions of dollars that are going to begin to move and are moving in this direction. >> let's move to china. xi jiping, promised to stop funding coal plants. china's own addiction to coal remainvery strong. china burns half of the world's coal. frans timmermans, let me start with you. is chine chiena doing enough? >> china is moving independent right direction which is good news. we didn't hear that for a bit. and china clearly understands for its own survival, it needs to wean itself of coal. the only question is at what speed? and i think both u.s. and europe are trying to convince china to move faster than they they had anticipated so far. nobody's doing this to do us a

favor. everybody's doing this because they understand they need to do it for themselves, including china. although, i believe that from a u.s. and e.u. perspective, we would like them to move a bit faster than what they've done so far. >> xi jinping has promised to be carbon neutral by 2050. both of you have called for china to move faster. beijing wants concessions. would the u.s., john kerry, be willing to give some concessions, on major grounds or remove sanctions that were currently, recently imposedded on solar panels in order to get chinese cooperation on climate? >> well, our president's talk a few days ago, president biden and president xi. i was privileged to be there. and president zi embraced the idea of getting things done together and moving on climate. obviously, both countries have concerns about other issues. everybody in the world know that.

but our presidents originally stated that climate stands in a special place. it's about survival of the planet. every country has its own urgency for dealing with it. and it cannot be held hostage by any of those other issues. you're not going to have a tradeoff of onething for climate, and then give up something. those things are going to have toe argued out between our presidents, discussed between our presidents. what i'm confident of is this-- i know this, and so does frans-- president xi is serious about this. he is already presiding over a country that are the largest producer of renewables in the world, th thats that deployed me renewables than anybody in the world. the population of china wants cleaner water, cleaner air, safety and security with respect to the climate crisis. >> i know you described the conversations between presidents biden and xi, but let me ask you

about what you've just experienced in terms of china coupling climate with all the other policies. you were just in china and you were forced to talk to the foreign minister via video link. the official who did meet with you in person lectured you and said that you "were guilty of strategic miscalculation" because climate could not be decoupled from china's other reques. >> that was a recent turn of events that we were very up front about. but that was at a point in time where there had not been a lot of communication between the administration and china. we were sort of operating on a separate track. since then, the presidents have talked. and there was a very car understanding that we need to try to make some progress on the climate issue. >> part of this is about helping developing countries become more resilient. president biden increasedly the pledge of the united states, but the bottom line is the

dustrialized world is short of $100 billion of its pledge. frans timmermans, what stops developing countries from saying, "hey, you haven't done much," when you arrive in glasgow. >> they will be saying we haven't done enough, but we're trying to get there, and i think we're getting very close. and i also believe that developing countries are discovering for themselves just by saying we haven't done enough, and through that stopping the process, doesn't help them, either. so we need to keep them on board. we need to engage with them. i'm just coming back from a meeting with the small island states in antigua. if you see the suffering already now, we have an urgency here that we need to address. and we'll get to the 100 billion. we will have to look knrnd that. it's not just about the public money we put on the table. it's about the investment we make possible. it's about the technol we transfer to them. it's about the transition we help them make. so i think there's a case to be made that we can come close together with the developing countries. they're looking for this cooperation, and i think we can

really conclude on a positive note in glasgow. >> frans timmermans, john kerry, thank you very much to you both. >> a pleasure. >> woodruff: and now, a look at artist roberto lugo, who puts family, tradition, and historical figures like harriet tubman at the center of his work. special correspondent jared bowen of gbh-boston brings us this report from new hampshire as part of our ongoing arts and culture series, canvas. >> reporter: in mugs and plates and urns at the currier museum of art in new hampshire, we find the porcelain d.n.a. of artist roberto lugo. >> i have images of protests, of historical figures like, you know, angela davis and, you know, black thought and people that have really inspired me to make me who i am.

and i couldn't be that without those people. >> reporter: this show, as the title explains, is the ceramicist bringing us his joy for a career literally shaped around culture, his own roots in graffiti and his love of family. >> here's my mother with her granddaughter teaching her how to make pasteles, which is a puerto rican dish. an image of family in the '60s, which is my family, like sort of my grandma with the bouffant and you know getting ready for church. this table is like a self- portrait. >> roberto is this wonderful, joyful spirit. >> reporter: contemporary art curator samantha cataldo says she's drawn to how lugo takes centuries of prized porcelain tradition from europe and asia- only to upend it with his story. >> using this historic form of pottery porcelain especially, which traditionally would have kings and queens and other kind of forms of royalty, obviously very much within a western and white narrative, to put someone

like harriet tubman or frederick douglass or himself or the rapper missy elliott onto a piece of pottery is really making a statement like, i belong here, my culture belongs here. >> reporter: what do you make of how open he is and how much autobiography there is in his work >> yeah, roberto's work is very vulnerable. >> reporter: so was lugo himself, when as a young art student of puerto rican descent, he was bluntly told he didn't fit in. >> i'm in a class and there's a photograph of me and someone just says, this looks like a mexican ganger, you know? and it was this like moment where, you know, i'm sitting there making pottery and i'm like, no matter what i make, this is how people are going to see me if i'm involved in the work. and so i started making work to counteract that and say, look, i >> reporter: which has meant depicting life the way he sees it, including teatime.

for him, a very foreign concept. >> i never drank tea from a teapot, you know? and so i see all these students around me making tea pots and making tea cups. and i'm thinking to self, li, how much tea to these people drink, you know? and i didn't understand it. i'm not sure if people realize that when a person of color that grows where i do, when i'm having tea, there's all this like, there's all these things that come into my mind. i look at certn shapes and it will remind me of other things, like when i look at a spout, i also think of a gun trigger. >> reporter: the artist's singular vision has landed him in museum collections. he's been awarded the prestigious rome prize and he's collaborated with celebrities and fans like actor seth rogan. but he is most mindful of his roots. he can often be found working with his and other communities- giving away work, teaching kids

and working wi veterans. and he has a name for it. >> it's sort of this idea that i'm the village potter. >> reporter: because lugo wants to be a connector of people and art. he asked the currier museum to place his work atop or alongside its own historic pieces. his urn featuring bob marl rests on an 18th century table. >> people can see, you know, that all these things can coincide and be beautiful. the hope is that when people see themselveseflected in the narrative of a person of color, then they can grow closer to that. >> reporter: much the same way lugo found himself connected to this painting in the currier's collection. it's by white folk artist grandma moses and reminds him of his parents' upbringing in puerto rico. >> there is like this sense of displacement i've always felt as a puerto rican growing up and always hearing about my parents and, you know the farm life. these kind of paintings, like almost transport you there where

you feel like you're kind of like in this place. >> reporter: it's a shared experience who's learned it takes a village to be the potter. for the pbs newshour, i'm jared bowen in manchester, new hampshire. >> woodruff: such an inspiration. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, louisiana residents hit hard by hurricane ida, tropical storm nicholas, and repeated disasters over the years, now face a new mental health crisis brought on by the toil of the storms. experts say communities of color and people living in poverty are the most at risk of lingering trauma that can have devastating effects. this is all on our website, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us on-ine and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs

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batteries and first aid kit are a good start to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter.pge.com . hello, everyone. welcome to "amanpour & company." here's what's coming up. we know that we are stronger as a nation if we stand with other democracies and stand with our allies. >> is americaack or is it america first? taking the temporary at the u.n. general assembly with the u.s. ambassador, linda thomas greenfield. >> translator: we emphasize here the importance of the international community's continued support of afghanistan at this critical stage. >> urging the world to continue dialogue with e taliban. i speak with qatar and its deputy pme minister. plus -- >> the fact that americans are less in the line of f