judy: good evening. a panel approves a dose of vaccine. then, border crisis. a top diplomat is resigning, protesting what he calls inhumane treatment of haitian immigrants in del rio, texas. and politics and the high court. justice stephen breyer and share some of what goes into his thinking about his retirement considerations, and weighs in on concerns the supreme court is to political.

judge breyer: you are there not for the democrats, not for the republicans, not for the party of the president who appointed you. judy: all that and more on tonight's "pbs newshour." >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by -- >> before we talk about your investments, what is new? >> audrey is expected. >> twins. >> change in plans. >> at fidelity, a change in plan is always part of the plan. >> johnson and johnson. bnsf railway. consumer cellular. financial services firm raymond james.

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broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. judy: the effort to vaccinate millions of americans against covid-19 is moving toward a new phase tonight. an advisory panel for the centers for disease control and prevention today recommended booster shots of the pfizer vaccine for people 65 and older, for nursing home residents, and for those between 18 and 64 years old with underlying health issues. amna nawaz has more. amna: that's right, judy. the cdc panel did vote against recommending a third shot for those considered high risk because of occupational setting. this all comes after the fda last night granted emergency use of pfizer boosters for vulnerable populations. for perspective on all of this, i'm joined by dr. kirsten bibbins-domingo. she is a physician, epidemiologist, and professor at the university of california, san francisco. dr. bibbins-domingo, welcome back to the "newshour." thanks for making the time.

so, the cdc panel recommends this pfizer booster for a wide swathe of americans. it's fair to say the group they said no to, basically all adults who they consider high risk because of their jobs. what did you make of that decision? dr. bibbins-domingo: yes. it's important to know that many people are at high risk because of their jobs. but, really, they're at high risk because of having an exposure to coronavirus and having repeated exposures to coronavirus, not necessarily from having a severe outcome. and i think that's what they were looking at the data. but, importantly, for all of those individuals, they would be covered by the broader cdc recommendation -- in particular, if they're older or if they have an underlying chronic condition. amna: now, we know that these recommendations right-hand -- are not binding. so, do you think that states could interpret them differently and maybe even lower the barrier for boosters, depending on their own vulnerable populations? dr. bibbins-domingo: right. i think what you will see here, because my understanding is that it's mostly going to be self-attestation -- that is, we're trying to lower the

barrier so individuals can self-identify in order to get their boosters. what you will see, i suspect, is a lot of people who are anxious to have the boosters who have already been vaccinated will rush out to get them. and i think what the question is, is how individual states ally focus efforts on making sure they get the word out to people who are additionally vulnerable because of occupation or because they might not understand or hear the cdc message as it's delivered today. amna: now, we should clarify, we're just talking about the pfizer vaccine. that was the only vaccine up for discussion today. it's about 100 million americans or so who have gotten both doses of that particular vaccine. we know moderna and johnson & johnson are requesting that same emergency approval. but what do you make of the way that they're rolling this out one vaccine at a time? is that going to lead some confusion to the rollout? dr. bibbins-domingo: absolutely. i think that the cdc and the fda are following the science. and, unfortunately, the science comes in, in fits and starts and piecemeal. the challenge is, of course, in the messaging because i think,

for many americans, it will be the question, well, i got moderna or i got j&j. what should i do? and, there, we don't yet have guidance from the cdc on what to do. i think the urgency is there to help have a unified message for all adults on what to do if you're six months out from your vaccination. i think there's particular urgency for j&j, where we know the efficacy has been a little bit lower, to get that second dose for the one-shot vaccine into people. and i suspect that's what you will see more discussion and urgency around in the coming weeks and months. amna: dr. bibbins-domingo, ts part stood out to me from the panel debate today. we should remind people that 55% of eligible americans are fully vaccinated. the data they presented today show that people who are already vaccinated have a very high interest in getting a booster shot, right? 76%, 80% of those people say they want to get that third shot. but among the unvaccinated, there was data that showed the need for a booster could make those people less likely to get vaccinated at all.

what does that say to you about the push for boosters? dr. bibbins-domingo: i know that was a very distressing part of the presentation today, because, ultimately, even though we want to protect those who are most at risk for severe outcomes -- and that is the effort and the spirit behind the booster recommendation today -- we ultimately don't have good control in this pandemic unless we get first and second dose shots into those who are not yet vaccinated. and i think you see in the debate today and in the messaging the real need to both emphasize that people who are not vaccinated get the vaccine and worry, concern that the very fact of approving a booster might lead those people to misunderstand the message that they don't need to get the vaccination at all. amna: dr. bibbins-domingo, in the minute or so we have left, just want to ask you about where we are right now, because the states that do have those lower vaccination rates are seeing higher average covid deaths. nationwide, the u.s. is reporting over 2,000 daily deaths. that's the highest seven-day

average since march. have those numbers peaked? where are we? dr. bibbins domingo: right. i think what we're seeing today is exactly this play out. we have these highly effective tools in the vaccines, but we haven't been able to get them into as many people as is necessary to really turn the tide in this pandemic. the boosters are going to help. they're going to help those who are most vulnerable to severe outcomes. but our path forward, especially as the data suggests today and the urgency of the crisis today, really is to make sure that we get as many first and second doses into as many people as possible. that's the path forward. amna: that is dr. kirsten bibbins-domingo, the university of california, san francisco, joining us tonight. thank you so much for your time. dr. bibbins-domingo: thank you. stephanie: i'm stephanie si with news our west. breaking tonight, the house

committee investigating the assault against the u.s. capitol has issued subpoenas against four close aides of president trump. the committee wants to hear from mark meadows, trump's most recent chief of staff, advisor steve batten -- bannon, and others. african leaders appealed to rich nations today not to get rooster shots before others obtain a first dose. at the u.n. general assembly, namibia's president called it vaccine apartheid. south africa's president pointed to a stark disparity. pres. ramaphosa: it is an indictment on humanity that more than 82 percent of the world's vaccine doses have been acquired by wealthy countries, while less than 1% has gone to low-income countries. stephanie: we will take a closer look at vaccination efforts in

uganda later in the program. the u.s. special envoy to haiti resigned in protest today over the biden administration's policy of deporting migrants back to that troubled nation. daniel foote called it inhumane and counterproductive. u.s. officials say that 1,400 haitians have been expelled. about 4,000 remain near del rio, texas. and thousands have been returned to mexico or released in the u.s. we will take a closer look after the news summary. a shooting today in tennessee left twoead, including the gunman, and 12 wounded. -- at least 13 wounded. it happened at a grocery store in collierville, about 30 miles east of memphis. police say the shooter opened fire, and then turned the gun on himself. there was no word on a motive. in louisiana, a federal grand jury indicted former state policeman jacob brown for beating a black man with a metal flashlight in 2019. he's accused of violating aaron bowman's civil rights.

it is one of several investigations involving beatings of black men by louisiana troopers. democratic congressional leaders now say they have a framework deal to pay for a huge spending measure covering social and environmental programs. they gave no details today. and there's no agreement on the final size of the bill. party leaders, including house speaker nancy pelosi, said they still favor $3.5 trillion. rep. pelosi: we're finalizing on the outlays side, so, if we need more, we need less, that will impact the choices we make there. but this was great progress. judy: party progressives and -- stephanie: party progressives and moderates remain divided over how big the spending bill should be. the u.s. environmental protection agency has finalized a rule to sharply limit the use of coolant gases known as hfc's. the goal is a reduction of 85% in the next 15 years. hfc's help cool refrigerators and air conditioners, but scientists say they help fuel global warming. california is now the first

state to bar amazon and other giant warehouse employers from punishing or firing workers over productivity quotas. governor gavin newsom signed the bill on wednesday. backers say the quotas can drive up workplace injuries. a federal judge in los angeles overturned today a sweeping order that would have fired los angeles to shelter all the homeless people living in the city's skid row. the ninth circuit court of appeals ruled that a lower court had made extensive errors overseeing a lawsuit about the city's homeless problem, and that plaintiffs did not have legal standing. still to come on the news hour, one country's desperate radel to fight the delta variant amid a scarce supply vaccines. justice stephen breyer on his new about how the supreme court is not as political as some believe. united states and the european union are teaming up to tackle climate change.

and much more. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from w eta studios in washington and from arizona state university. judy: as we reported, daniel foote, who was the u.s. special envoy to haiti, resigned in protest today, putting the spotlight again on the biden administration's handling of mostly haitian migrants in del rio, texas. our own yamiche alcindor broke the story of the special envoy's resignation, and she joins me now. so, yamiche, hello. what more do we know about his decision? what was behind it? yamiche: well, the former envoy to haiti, daniel foote, essentially said that he didn't have a voice in this administration. he said that he was nored. he also said he didn't want to be connected to what he saw as cruel and inhumane policies. he said that it was wrong to be deporting haitians back to haiti, because that island nation is facing a number of crises, including the aftermath of the political turmoil, the

assassination of the president, as well as an earthquake that hit the country last week. i want to -- last month, rather. i want to read part of daniel foote's letter, because it was a blistering letter. it said, in part: "i will not be associated with the united states' inhumane, counterproductive decision to deport thousands of haitian refugees. the collapsed state" -- and he's referring to haiti -- "is unable to provide security or basic services. or more refugees -- and more refugees will fuel further desperation and crime." so there he is saying that haiti is actually being harmed by sending back -- the united states sending back haitian migrants. he also said that the united states shouldn't be supporting and backing the current prime minister of haiti, ariel henry, saying instead that he said that the united states should be working with civil society, which is something that we have told our viewers over and over again, which is what the civil society has been pleading with the biden administration to do. that said, officials in the biden administration have been pushing back very hard on daniel foote. they have been saying that his allegations are false, that he's miscategorizing why he was -- why he's resigning.

the secretary of state, as well as the deputy secretary of state, the white house press secretary, they all say that his views were valued, they were heard; they just were not followed through. i also spoke to a senior administration official who said daniel foote never actually raised objections to haitians being deported or to their treatment on the border. that being said, that's something that, of course, daniel foote takes issue with. judy: and, yamiche, you were telling us you have also been in touch with a number of haitian leaders, haitian activists, who have been very critical of the biden administration's response to all this. what are they saying? and what is the administration saying to that? yamiche: well, there's a lot of outrage. people are saying that this is cruel, the way that the united states is treating haitian migrants. i talked to one activist. his name is alix desulme. he's a councilman in north miami, florida. and he's also the chairman of the national haitian american elected officials network. here's what he had to say. alix: they need to find a solution for those who try to get here, to treat them fairly. we don't know what's the difference between this

administration and the previous administration. so this is not what i think anyone has signed up for. yamiche: he also said that president biden's silence on this speaks volumes. and i pushed the white house press secretary, jen psaki, on this specific issue, on president biden not speaking out. here's what she said. why is he not using that bully pulpit to speak out forcefully himself on the treatment of haitians? ms. psaki: his point of view is also reflected in the actions that have been taken through the administration, including the investigation, including the change in policy. the secretary of homeland security oversees these efforts, and has been quite outspoken and quite visible on what steps we should take moving forward. and he certainly may still speak to it. yamiche: so that was the white house press secretary talking about a number of changing policies. part of the policies that change it is that the department of homeland security has now launched an investigation into those images of border patrol agents on horseback using reins against migrants.

they're also suspending right now the horse patrol unit in del rio, texas. so that is a big change that they announced today. that being said, activists want to see so much more done. judy: really interesting. finally, yamiche, what is known about what's going on right now at that del rio crossing in texas, where many of these migrants still are? and what happens next? yamiche: they're -- at its peak, the migrant camp was at 14,000 people living in squalid conditions with no food, with very little access to water. now it's down to abou3,000 or 4,000 people, officials say. they also say,hough, that deportations are going to continue. these repatriation flights, there have been 13 of them to haiti so far, that they're going to continue because of title 42, which is a trump era law connected to public health. that being said, the administration has also said that some families, some young children, some pregnant women, that they're going to be allowed to stay in the united states. and sources tell me that the majority of these migrants are actually being allowed to stay in the united states now. but we will have to watch to see if there's any other policy

changes, because activists are saying the way that some of these migrants are being treated, they're bng treated like slaves, they say. and that's, of course, a big acsation. but it's an accusation made out of passion and outrage. judy: such a fast-moving story. and i know you are continuing to stay on top of it. yamiche, thank you very much. yamiche: thanks so much. ♪ judy: yesterday's announcement by the biden administration that is donating 500 million doses of covid vaccine to developing countries aims to address the lopsided global distribution of vaccines. in africa, uganda is still struggling to vaccinate its most at-risk groups. so far, there have been more than 120,000 recorded cases of covid-19 and just over 3,100 deaths. but the real numbers are likely much higher. special correspondent fred de sam lazaro reports from kampala.

fred: it is a rare and random event in uganda, a vaccination site that actually has vaccines. about 200 astrazeneca doses were dispensed to people like eunice mwinike, who'd tried before and failed to get a shot. eunice: i tried once. then i waited for three months. then it came. fred: college instructor joseph okiror got his shot because teachers are getting priority. joseph: i feel i'm lucky, because i deal with a lot of students. and, as a result, i made it. fred: they are among the few. only 2.3% of the country's 44 million people have received their first dose. the wait for a second stretches weeks beyond the recommended eight to 12 weeks. some of the country's vaccines have come from covax, the u.n.-backed sharing initiative whose supply has fallen far short of its goals.

the government's plans to purchase directly from india fell through after that country stopped exporting vaccines amid its own devastating surge. so, vaccination sites sit empty, hastily brought into service whenever doses arrive, many of them donations from western countries and china, consignments varying by brand, many from surpluses nearing their expiration date. dr. aceng: we appreciate the dose-sharing. we do appreciate. but it doesn't begin even to address the needs. fred: dr. jane ruth aceng is uganda's minister of health. dr. aceng: other countries are thinking about a third dose, a booster dose. and we are just beginning to say, how do we get teachers vaccinated? should the african continent that has been so marginalized in vaccine distribution sit back and say, let us close our economies and wait for vaccines

to come in? fred: in april 2020, with many countries experiencing infection surges, uganda implemented a strict lockdown, shutting down schools, most travel, even religious gatherings. that appeared to contain the virus, until the delta variant emerged in june. most of uganda's cases and some 3,100 deaths have occurred since, overwhelming the spartan health care system, until the government clamped down with another six-week lockdown. dr. kumbakuma: it was very severe. we had about 30 patients in the hospital. and, yes, it was straining, because there was -- it wasn't set up specifically to manage that kind of volume of covid patients. fred: dr. elias kumbakumba is on a covid task force at the main government hospital in mbarara, uganda's second largest city. how many ventilators do you have? dr. kumbakuma: we have 10, but a few of them, i think about three, are not as functional as they should be.

fred: and this is a hospital that is serving four million. dr. kumbakuma: four million people in the region and beyond. fred: most of those people would find it hard to even get to this hospital. transportation is a barrier for over half the population who earn less than $2 a day, on days they actually work. and during the lockdowns, work and transportationecame even more scarce. private providers may live closer, but, for many, they are unaffordab. dr. charles kasozi says he's tried to keep his prices affordable in his modest dispensary, catering to low income neighbors near the town of entebbe. at the peak, he had 20 covid patients and struggled to obtain oxygen and medication. how much does it cost to ventilate a patient with covid? dr. kasozi: it may cost two to three millions, per day. fred: two to three million? dr. kasozi: per day. fred: that's between 600 and 800 u.s. dollars per day. so you think a lot of people die

in their homes? dr. kasozi: some people died in their homes, because they cannot pay their hospital bills. fred: stories are rife of price-gouging in private hospitals. allana: before you're treated, you must present a land title, which most ugandans just can'ta fred: to pay for the care? allana: yes, but before they even touch your patient, some would ask for land title, a huge deposit. fred: allana kembabazi, a yale-educated attorney and activist with uganda's initiative for social and economic rights, says ugandans have been failed twice. allana: by the international community, because we just couldn't get the vaccines in sufficient amounts that we needed, but also by our own government, which should have taken more measures to strengthen our public health systems. fred: uganda received more than $800 million in foreign assistance to cope with the covid crisis, much of it in the form of loans from agencies like the world bank. critics say the government's been less than transparent about how that money was or is being spent. the government has also come

under fire for being out of touch with the widespread suffering here. one recent example, the purchase of new vehicles for uganda's 500-plus members of parliament. allana: when you're telling teachers and you're telling parents, you can't send your kids into school until all the teachers are vaccine, until all kids after above 12 are vaccinated, so where are your priorities? fred: health minister aceng contends that's not the issue. dr. aceng: we have the money. we have had the money from the outset. covax will tell you, you will get vaccines between now and 2022 december. i think the answer to this is for africa to invest in its own vaccine production. fred: several african nations are able to manufacture vaccines. the hurdle? trade negotiations over the transfer of intellectual property rights and also the export of me vaccine ingredients. allana: the idea that we're all in this together, it was just a

lie. are you going to close your boundaries forever? are your people never going to travel? how do they think this disease spreads? fred: without vaccines, uganda's -- uganda has imposed lockdowns. minister aceng says these are not only unaffordable anymore; they're unenforceable. dr. aceng: everybody's tired. the focus of most people has now moved away from survival, in keeping safe from the pandemic, to economic survival, where i need to get food on the plate. fred: of the survivors, she and others say none will pay a heavier price than children in a country where half the population is younger than 14. at the vaccination site, sisters deborah and winnie, 11 and 12, sell bananas, so they may eat each night. student: i loved studying. fred: what was your favorite subject?

student: i liked mathematics and social science fred: the government hopes to reopen schools in the weeks ahead, but these sisters and millions of others, their families financially wiped out, may not return soon, if ever. another troubling sign, child labor, which had been declining for two decades in uganda and elsewhere, saw an increase in 2020, a trend the u.n. says is getting much worse in 2021. we will explore that issuen my next report. for the "pbs newshour," i'm fred de sam lazaro in kampala. judy: fred's reporting is in partnership with the under-told stories project at the university of st. thomas in minnesota. ♪ justice stephen breyer heads

into a new supreme court term soon, facing a docket of hot button issues and pressure from progressives to retire. i spoke earlier today with the court's senior liberal justice about his new book, "the authority of the court and the peril of politics." thank you very much for joining us. you have written six other books , but none of them were this size, a book you can hold in one hand, somehow less intimidating than the book you pick up from a supreme court justice. who are you trying to reach? judge breyer: i'm trying to reach the high school students, college students, middle school students, and in particular people who are not lawyers, but who are interested at least in how i have seen the court work over 27 years. judy: deposit in the book, justice breyer, that the court, even in this fraud political

time, that the supreme crt of the united states has managed to maintain its authority with the american people. you cite a pew poll in 2019 that showed 62% of americans had a verbal opinion of the court. but there is a marquette university law school paul out just this month that shows approval of the court is at 49%. judge breyer: it went down, but polls go like that read the question -- the one difference i think between the court, if i had to pick one, and other government institutions, as we move in different timeframe. we have a slow timeframe. i think our cases are not well decided, usually, unless we have time to think about it. and if you were there, you would discover the same thing. instead of having to get out something into hours, you would have to months or three months or four months, and lots of

other people have worked with a lot of briefs and a lot of information, and you sit back and digest it, and you try to see a bigger picture. judy: it is on that basis, among others, that you argue the court is not politicized. you cite cases in recent years that did not go, you said, as one might have thought based on which president nominated which justice. but we did just see a majority of the court allow a clearly unconstitutional law to take act in the state of texas that violates the rights of women. the projected the chief justice's alternative, temporary blocking it from going into effect until the lower courts could take look. what about that? judge breyer: it was a procedural decision. they did not speak to the merits of the texas law. and on that procedural decision, i dissented, along with the

chief justice andthers, and the reason is just what we have been talking about. it was an important case even procedurally, on those emergency matters. so four of us thought we should take more time. that was really the issue. five thought, no, we should go ahead. and there we are. judy: procedural, and yet it has real-life human consequences for women who were affected. judge breyer: i could not agree with you more. that was one of the reasons i wanted to take it easy. my own dissent was block the law until we can have the time to figure out just what is going on. on that of course i think i am right. i think i am right whenever i dissent. i always think i am right. that is why i write what i write.

but no one in the united states is going to get decisions that he or she likes all the time. judy: so much to ask you about in this book. you write early on that the news media is partly responsible, you say, for changing public perceptions of the court. but what about the court itself? the decisions the court makes -- the court has made the decision to take up the 15 week mississippi abortion ban, which you are going to be hearing in december, even when a very conservative lower court has found that unconstitutional. the supreme court made the decision to take it out. judge breyer: four ves takes it. i cannot really go into -- i cannot even tell you who were the four. so you are not sure. [laughter] or are fairly sure, but nonetheless. what is in their minds? judy: the point is that is a

court decision to tackle. judge breyer: to grant a full hearing, it takes four people. judy: coming up this term you have a mississippi case, a new york guns case. you may have an affirmative action case. on the court itself be responsible for how the public sees it? if we end up seeing a series of one-sided decisions on some of these hot button cases like this, just in the next few terms -- judge breyer: of course the court will be responsive, but what that means to me is there are large numbers of hot button cases. think of the warren court and its efforts to desegregate the south. think of justice brennan and the major cases that he wrote on free speech. think of the new deal court, making changes of a dramatic nature. think of the court after the civil war, compared to the court

before the civil war. there are moments in time where the court does change its outlook. it is not exactly what the ordinary person means by political. it is not that they are junior varsity politicians. judy: you and justice amy coney barrett are both speaking publicly about how the supreme court is not lyrical, but if someone is a democrat or an independent and they see a repuican denied even a senate vote, a very qualified candidate, like merrick garland -- if they see the senate rules changed so that republican nominee neil gorsuch can be confirmed, then a partisan vote confirmed less than a week before a presidential election -- confirm justice barrett -- that sounds like a political stacked deck too many americans.

judge breyer: that is one of those amazing things, because i agree with you 100%. the process -- the process of appointing a judge, me too, it seems very political, yes. but what is an astounding thing -- and i have learned that over more than the 27 years -- is when a man or a woman puts on a judicial robe -- i put on that rope many years ago. and one of the great mores of both the supreme court and the lower court, and you absorb it over time -- it is a great honor to be a federal judge. it is a great privilege. and one of the things that comes along with that privilege is that if you are there not for the democrats, not for the republicans, not for the party of the president who appointed you -- judy: you talked about the

danger of trying to remake the court, adding justices, making other changes. the question comes up about term limits for justices. why doesn't it make sense for at least our united states congress or president to look at that? as you know, there is a committee looking at it now. judge breyer: term limits, i have said quite a lot, over a period of years -- i see no objection to term limits if they are long. you don't want a short term because you don't want a person in that job thinking about his next job. if there are long terms, i don't think there would be a big difference. judy: is there any other change to the court that you think, in your mind, would not do harm to the institution? judge breyer: what i said about the term, expanding the court, as i said you have t be careful

about it and i want people to think about it before they jump into something like that, in light of the history. primarily, that history is in there because i want people to understand how long a time it has taken in our history before people are willing to accept courts as making decisions that normally they should follow. and indeed, that is part of the rule of law. it is a little abstract. we have 301 million people in this country holding themselves together, every race, every religion, every point of view -- why? because they accept this document, the constitution, setting forth a rule of law for solving many if not all disputes among them. it is better than the alternatives. that is what churchill said, or somebody said, and they are sure right, because the alternatives are violence and war and all kinds of trouble. judy: it is not in the book, but

i want to ask you about your future. you have said you won't answer questions about it, bu you have said that as of now you have no plans to retire. after 27 years in the court, what timeframe are you talking about, in the coming year? judge breyer: i am certainly willing to repeat, but i have said that of course there are many different considerations, and i have not made up my mind just exactly when, but i don't want to die on the court. and before then, i would like to retire. just when that will be, i have not fully decided. i think this is not the place and the time when i want to go into that. judy: have you spoken to other justices about that? judge breyer: that is onof the things i have not answered yet. [laughter] judy: have you spoken to

president biden about it? judge breyer: that is one of the things when i start down that road -- you have you talked to about it? [laughter] judy: you and i were just speaking about this, the idea of retiring for anyone is a difficult question. judge breyer: it might be much nicer for me personally if there were a long time i would not have to worry about this -- a long-term limit. i would not have to worry about this. judy: you have known others who wrestled with this decision. do you think there is a right way and a wrong way to think about it? judge breyer: i have looked at it in the past. i will go that far. i have looked at what people have done in the past. judy: including other justices? judge breyer: those are the ones who are most relevant. judy: justice breyer, do you think it makes a difference when you step down whether there is not only a democrat in the white house but a democratic majority in the senate?

judge breyer: probably. i don't know for sure. no one ever knows. to what extent you take that into account is a personal decision. justice scalia, justice rehnquist have said you do take that kind of thing into account. others have been reluctant to do it. it's in the mix. judy: different question finally about the court. that is the court consists almost entirely of justices who graduated from harvard or yale law school. almost entirely of justices who have been appellate court justices. no one since justice sandra day o'connor has faced a voter. do you think it would be healthy for the court, good for the country? judge breyer: yes, yes. look at justice black, a great justice. he had been a senator. earl warren had been a governor. harold vern had been the mayor of the city. with one thing or another thing -- but having a mix of

backgrounds, a mix of different experiences -- all things being equal, it is good for the court. judy: thank you very much. the book is "the authority of the art and the peril of politics." thank you. ♪ judy: the top american and european climate envoys met in washington today to coordinate their efforts ahead of a major climate summit. nick schifrin sits down with the envoys for their first joint interview. nick: the climate crisis is here. today, you can see it in the extreme weather, from floods to fire. you can see it in the data. the u.n. warns the world that, unless the world acts faster than it's already promised, temperatures will rise to catastrophic, irreversible levels. the u.s. calls the upcoming climate summit the last chance for the world to avoid disaster.

for more on that, i'm joined by john kerry, the esident's special envoy on climate, and his european counterpart, frans timmermans, executive vice president of the european commission. welcome, both of you, to the "newshour." mr. kerry: thank you. nick: john kerry, let me start with you. there have been three decades of negotiations on climate change, and the bottom line is, emissions have gone up. does that suggest, at the end of the day, the world has apoached this in the wrong way? mr. kerry: yes. it has not raised the ambition to the level that we need to. the scientists are clear now. we have a rtain period of time, this decade, within which we have to implement, make and implement key decisions to avoid the worst consequences of the climate crisis. happily, on the good side, the united states, the e.u., the u.k., japan, canada, have all made commitments of reduction of emissions that do put us within range of keeping the 1.5-degree limit in warming, to keep that

alive. but unless we are joined by other countries with sufficient levels of ambition in this next decade, to race towards the 45% or greater reductions that the scientists have called for, we're in trouble. nick: frans timmermans, are we in troub? mr. timmermans: we are. but we can fix it. that's the good news. but it had to come tthis. it had to come all this erratic weather patterns, to all the tornadoes and storms and failed harvests, bere people understood how serious the situation is. but we can still fix it. nick: we're sitting here in washington, and i want to ask you a little bit about american politics. and i'm struck by something that an indian official said to you, mr. kerry, recently. what happens if the next republican president once again pulls out of the paris climate accord? so, frans timmermans, let me start with you. are you worried about that? is the u.s. a reliable partner on climate? mr. timmmans: yes, i think it

is, and it will be. by the way, i'm not so sure there will be a next repubcan president. but that's another discussion. even if there is, corporate america is moving in the right direction at lightning speed. and, as i know, the republican party usually listens quite ll to corporate america, and they will have to wake up and smell the coffee. and i'm pretty confident it is going to happen. nick: the u.s. is not on track to meet its own goal of cutting emissions of 28% by 2025. what does it say, john kerry, about the u.s.'s commitment to climate change that the president's agenda on climate, frankly, can be stopped by a senator who happens to have a lot of ties to coal and gas? mr. kerry: i think everybody understands tat this is a critical moment. and re and more republicans on the hill are beginning to try to hunt around for some way to be able to respond to this. but on your former question, i think it's impossible for any future politician to reverse what the private sector is going to be investing in remarkably

heavily. ford motor company, gm have committed by 2030, 50% of the cars we're selling are going to be electric. i don't think any politician would stand up and try to reverse the trillions of dollars that are going to begin to move and are moving in this direction. nick: let's move to china. this week, xi jinping spoke at the u.n. general assembly, promised that china would stop funding coal plants around the world as part of its belt and road initiative. but china's own addiction to coal remains very strong. china burns half of the world's coal. frans timmermans, let me start with you. is china doing enough? mr. timmermans: well, china is moving in the right direction, which is good news. we didn't hear that for a bit. and china clearly understands that, for its own survival, for its own opposition in the future, it needs to wean itself off coal. the only question is, at what speed? and i think both u.s. and europe are trying to convince china to move faster than they had anticipated so far. nobody's doing this to do us a

favor. everybody's doing this because they understand they need to do it for themselves, including china, although i believe that, from a u.s. and e.u. perspective, we would like them to move a bit faster than what they have done so far. nick: xi jinping has promised to reach peak emissions by 2030, become carbon-neutral by 2060. as you just said, both of you have called for china to move faster. beijing wants concessions. would the u.s., john kerry, be willing to give some concessions, whether on major grounds, like xinjiang or south china sea, or remove sanctions that were currently recently imposed on solar panels, in order to get chinese cooperation on climate? mr. kerry: well, our presidents talked just a few days ago. president biden and president xi had a very, very constructive conversation. i was privileged to be there. and president xi embraced the idea of getting some things done together and moving on climate. obviously, both countries have concerns about other issues. that's -- everybody in the world knows that.

but our presidents originally stated that climate stands in a special place. it's about the survival of the planet. every country has its own urgency for dealing with it. and it cannot be held hostage by any of those other issues. you're not going to have a tradeoff of one thing for climate and then give up something that's a matter of principle. those things are going to have to be argued out between our presidents, discussed between our presidents. what i'm confident of is this. i know this, and so does france. prident xi is serious about this. he understands the implications for china. he is already presiding over a country that is the largest producer of renewables in the world, that has deployed more renewables than anybody in the world. and the population of china wants cleaner water, cleaner air, safety and security with respect to the climate crisis. nick: i know you described the conversations between presidents biden and xi, but let me ask you about what you have just

perienced, in terms of china coupling climate with all the other policies. you were just in china, and you were forced to talk to the foreign minister via video link. the official who did meet with you in person lectured you and said that you -- quote -- "were guilty of strategic miscalculation" because climate could not be decoupled from china's other requests. mr. kerry: that was a very recent turn of events that we were very up front about. but that was at a point in time where there had been not a lot of communication between the administration and china. we were sort of operating on a separate track. and, since then, the presidents have talked. and there was a very clear understanding that we need to try to make some progress on the climate issue. nick: part of this is about helping developing countries become more resilient. president biden increased the pledge of the united states. but the bottom line is that the industrialized world is short of

$100 billion of its pledge. frantimmermans, what stops developing countries from saying, hey, you haven't done enough when you arrive in glasgow? mr. timmermans: well, they will be saying that we haven't done enough. but we're trying to get there. and i think we will get very close. and i also believe that developing countries are discovering for themselves that, just by saying that we haven't done enough, and, through that, stopping the process, doesn't help them either. so we need to keep them on board. we need to engage with them. i was just -- i'm just coming back from a meeting with the small island states in antigua. and if you see the suffering already now, we have an urgency here that we need to address. and we will get close to the 100 billion. we will have to look beyond that. and we will also -- it's not just about the public money we put on the table. it's about the investment we make possible. it's about the technology we transfer to them. it's about the transition we help them make. so, i think there's a case to be made that we can come close together with the developing countries. they're looking for this cooperation.

and i think we can really conclude on a positive note in glasgow. nick: frans timmermans, john kerry. mr. kerry: thank you. nick: thank you very much to you both. mr. timmermans: pleasure. mr. kerry: it's good to be with you. ♪ judy: and now a look at artist roberto lugo, who puts family, tradition, and historical figures like harriet tubman at the center of his work. special correspondent jared bowen of gbh-boston brings us this report from new hampshire, as part of our ongoing arts and culture series, canvas. jared: in mugs and plates and urns at the currier museum of art in new hampshire, we find the porcelain dna of artist roberto lugo. robert: in this exhibition, i have images of protests, of historical figures like angela davis, and black thought and people that have really inspired

me to make me who i am. and i couldn't be that without those people. jared: this show, as the title explains, is the ceramicist bringing us his joy for a career literally shaped around culture, his own roots in graffiti and his love of family. robert: here's my mother with her granddaughter teaching her how to make pastels, which is a -- pasteles, which is a puerto rican dish. and then there's the image of a family in the 1960's, which is my family, my grandma with the bouffant and getting ready for church. and in some ways, i think this table is like a self-portrait. samantha: he's thinking about his culture, where he comes from, people that influence him. jared: contemporary art curator samantha cataldo says she's drawn to how lugo takes centuries of prized porcelain tradition from europe and asia, only to upend it with his story. samantha: using this historic form of pottery, porcelain especially, which traditionally would have kings and queens, and very much within a western and white narrative, to put someone

like harriet tubman or himself or the rapper missy elliott onto a piece of pottery is really making a statement, like, "i belong here." my culture belongs here. jared: what do you make of how open he is and how much autobiography there is in his work? samantha: yes, roberto's work is very vulnerable. jared: so was lugo himself, when, as a young art student of puerto rican descent, he was bluntly told he didn't fit in. robert: i feel judged exhaustively. and that's one of the things that drove me to make the work i did, because when i was in a class, and there's a photograph of me and someone just says, this looks like a mexican gangster, you know? and it was this, like, moment where i'm sitting there making pottery and i'm like, no matter what i make, this is how people are going to see me if i'm involved in the work. and so i started making work to counteract that. jared: which has meant depicting life the way he sees it,

including tea time, for lugo, a very foreign concept. robert: when i took my first pottery class, i'd never drunk tea from a teapot, you know? an so i see all these students around me making teapots and making teacups. and i'm thinking to myself, like, how much tea do these people drink, you know? and i didn't understand it. i'm not sure if people realize that, like, when a person of color that grows up where i did, when i'm having tea, there's all these things that come into my mind. and it can't just be about tea, because of my experiences, you know? so, like, i will look at certain shapes, and it will remind me of other things. like, when i look at a spout, i also think of a gun trigger because of the ghetto that i grew up in. jared: the artist's singular vision has landed him in museum collections. he's been awarded the prestigious rome prize, and he's collaborated with celebrities and fans like actor seth rogen. but lugo is most mindful of his roots. he can often be found working with his and other communities, giving away work, teaching kids

and working with veterans. and he has a name for it. robert: it's sort of this idea that i'm the village potter. jared: because lugo wants to be a connector of people and art. he asked the currier museum to place his work atop or alongside its own historic pieces. his urn featuring bob marley rests on an 18th century table. robert: people can see that all these thgs can coincide and be beautiful. and that's really the hope, is that when people see themselves reflected in the narrative of a person of color, then they grow closer to that. jared: much the same way lugo found himself connected to this painting in the currier's collection. it's by white folk artist grandma moses, and reminds him of his parents' upbringing in puerto rico. robert: i think there is this, like, sense of displacement i have always felt as a puerto rican growing up and always hearing about my parents and the farm life. these kind of paintings, like,

almost transport you there, where you feel like you're comfortable however you are there, like working on the farm. and i just love that about these pieces. jared: it's a shared experience for the artist, who's learned it takes a village to be the potter. for the "pbs newshour," i'm jared bowen in manchester, new hampshire. judy: such an inspiration. online right now, louisiana residents hit hard by hurricane ida, tropical storm nicholas, and repeated disasters over the years, now face a new mental health crisis brought on by the toil of the storms. experts say communities of color and people living in poverty are the most at risk of lingering trauma that can have devastating effect. this is all on our website, pbs.org/newsour -- pbs.org/newshour. for all of us, thank you.

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