>> the devastation of war. >> yesterday, the world did nothing. >> russia's invasion of ukraine takes another tragic turn after president putin's forces target hospitals and civilians. >> we have been witnessing for weeks atrocities of unimaginable proportion. >> the attacks intensified because to investigate russia and putin for war crimes. >> enough talk. people are dying. send them the planes they need. >> for the u.s. and nato allies to do more. >> we did not attack ukraine. a situation developed in ukraine which poses a direct threat to the security of the russian federation's. >> russia continues its

disinformation campaign. >> we are going to jointly announce several steps to squeeze putin and hold him more accountable for his aggression. >> the biden administration gets more aggressive. already soaring gas prices jump even higher. next. >> this is washingtonweek. corporate funding is provided by. consumer cellular. additional funding provided by the estate of arnold adams. the u.n. foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. sandra and carl delay magnuson. robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

once again from washington, moderator -- >> good evening. welcome to washingtonweek. it's been almost three weeks since russia invaded ukraine. as the war grinds on, the death toll keeps rising. the destruction is worsening. for the first time, russia expanded attacks into western ukraine. an area that had been a safe have and is closer to nato territory. russian forces are surrounding several of ukraine's largest cities with all of this violence, europe is seeing the largest exodus of refugees since world war ii. on wednesday, russian forces bombed a maternity and children's hospital in the southern city. the attack took place in what was supposed to be a 12 hour cease-fire to allow civilians to escape. ukraine's president condemned

the assault. >> a strike on a maternity hospital is final proof of genocide of ukrainians is taking place. >> president biden acknowledged the new ban on russian energy imports will mean higher gas prices for americans. >> today, we remain united in our purpose to keep pressure mounting on putin and his war machine. i will do every thing i can to minimize his price hike here at home. >> the president also warned if russia uses chemical weapons in ukraine, it will pay a severe price. joining me tonight to discuss this and more, nick shifrin, foreign affairs and defense correspondent for pbs newshour in ukraine. also joining me in studio, so happy to have people in studio, the senior national political reporter for nbc news and white

house correspondent for cnn. thank you for being here. you have been reporting on the ground for two weeks. i have to look at my notes. europe has not seen this sort of bombardment in 80 years. you also mentioned mass graves. what is the latest on where things stand, especially as russia is going into western ukraine? >> i think the attacks in western ukraine are new and perhaps identify an expansion of this war, and perhaps trying to get at some of the arms, some of the aid coming in from poland into ukraine that the u.s. and nato countries continue to send. you mentioned the mass graves. that is the story of this war. you mentioned the south. this city faced war in 2014 when the russians initially invaded

into eastern ukraine. but the war today is frankly medieval. it has been one week since half a million people had any food, water, electricity. the russians bragged this morning they destroyed every bridge that led out of that city. there is no way to get aid in, and there is no way to get anyone out. it has been six days straight with the russians promising there would be a cease-fire, and instead, shelled the buildings where civilians were supposed to gather in order to evacuate. so the level of destruction is akin to whate saw over the last few years in syria. the level of suffering of hundreds of thousands of people in that city, as well as other cities, especially in the south, a couple in the northeast, is extraordinary. the ukrainians are trying their

best to resist this russian onslaught and are having success. in these individual cities where they are struggling to get any kind of assistance in and civilians out, conditions are dire. >> the destruction being such a big part of this story. talk about half a million people with no water. with all of this happening, more than 2 million people have fled ukraine. at least half of the refugees are children. here's a woman describing the destruction in her city. we don't have electricity or anything to eat. we don't have medicine, we have nothing. >> you were here last week talking about your interviews and experiences with refugees. what sticks with you as you are joining us again? >> the main thing for people to

notice about this particular refugee and internally displaced persons crisis is it is not families. it is women and children. the ukrainian government has banned ukrainian men between 18 and 60 from leaving the country unless you have three or four children. so the number of scenes that have played out over many tds, it is heartbreaking to see these families break up. the level of fear people have to have for what is happening in their cities in order to get on trains, get in cars, get out of their cities by any means necessary while the russians are shelling. some of the roads they are escaping, it is extraordinary. what is also amazing about this is the fearlessness of many of those men who were dropping

their families off at the border and volunteering to fight. the ukrainian soldiers who are way outgunned and way out armed, at least on paper. but are really happy having some individual successes against russian troops. those two things really combine in this war. and you see the combination of a country facing an existential threat. countless families being ripped apart. and yet so many people here defending their land and defending their freedom. >> we talk about that. describing the devastation, but also the fearlessness. what is the pressure on the white house to do more? the president said over and over again we will not go in militarily. what is the thinking as things get worse? >> even today, the president announced these new economic measures to put the pressure on vladimir putin. i think the administration is

pretty close to facing an existential question when it comes to these sanctions. the question is what is the point, what is it accomplishing? initially, the reason the white house held off on ruling out the sanctions was they wanted the threat of the sanctions to be a deterrent. then when the invasion began, they hoped the threat of more sanctions would deter russia from doing a more widespread invasion. that was not successful. at this point, it seems a part of the thinking by the white house is to ramp up the pressure campaign. particularly on the people around vladimir putin. the people who are wealthy, the oligarchs who would be very unhappy about some of these measures put in place on them. but we have no idea at this int whether any of these things are going to work, whether they have worked in the past, we clearly see they have not. >> you are fresh off the amtrak

from philadelphia. thank you for joining us. you were at the democrats retreat. it is interesting president biden said be careful about talking about military action, because it would be world war iii. based on your reporting, how much of this pressure is mounting among democrats and republicans for the president to do more? how are they telegraphing that? >> the footage we saw was horrific. the scenes, the violence escalating. i think lawmakers are certainly paying an -- paying attention to that and the president zelinski. he's been very effective at social media. congress passed a major package of ukraine aid totaling $13.6 billion with multiple components. humanitarian assistance, disaster and refugee aid, military assistance in the form of weapons transfers to fend themselves. there's economic aid for the macroeconomic needs of ukraine

for their energy and cybersecurity infrastructure. congress has gotten its act together. how it will be delivered is another thing. the president was very clear in his remarks that he doesn't want to start world war iii. he used the phrase multiple times. that is off the table. that is why the white house has been emphatic in opposition to a no-fly zone, which is where most members of congress stand. he wants to help the ukrainians and tighten the noose as much as possible on vitamin putin and russia through economic means. even though it may not be enough to stop him. >> that really takes me to you when we talk about what will stop president putin. there's a conversation around the threat of chemical weapons. president biden said russia would pay a severe price if the chemical weapons were used in ukraine. what is your sense talking to folks on the ground, but i know you have national security

sources. how concerned are they about the threat of chemical weapons? >> they are concerned, which is why the white house press secretary tweeted about it and officials have been talking about it. they have been concerned for weeks. they simply don't see an exit ramp. they don't see the russian invasion succeeding. they don't see any time soon vladimir putin accomplishing what at least the u.s. things he still wants to accomplish, regime change. essentially overthrowing the ukrainian government and replacing with some kind of vassal state. because it turns out it is not so easy in ukraine, because so many intligence officials are trying to figure out what is motivating vladimir putin, and what he is thinking about and how isolated he is, the fear is

he would resort to something much more drastic. ukrainian officials think vladimir putin has been uncontrollable for a long time. they kind of joke because they would agree he's capable of anything, as well. they are more focused on the conventional threat they face. trying their best, using small teams of soldiers around the country to defeat the more armed enemy. being much more motivated. we talked to multiple soldiers, including one today on the front lines. he described his own entries. he also described that they destroyed the entire russian unit they faced, which was bigger than them. he said they were simply more motivated and russians were acting like they were on the job. they did not have the same

motivation the ukrainians did. >> i want to ask a quick question and follow-up with the planes. but chemical weapons. does it change the white house's view of this? >> clearly there is assessment the white house and this administration has that made them nervous about this. even more nervous in the last couple of days. we seem different language from this white house. what is really notable about the fact this administration started warning about the possibilities of this kind of attack is through this conflict, this administration said we will be as transparent as we can be about the intelligence we have, and sharing with the public about what we think that every putin will do. part of the thinking is catching him off guard, having him look up and see the u.s. is broadcasting what they think he will do.

>> what he could do and the changes happening, the fluidity of all of this is poland surprised american officials by offering a turn over its aging russian-made planes. but there was a catch that they had to make a deal with the u.s.. talk about what happened and where things can go. >> there was a pretty extraordinary moment we saw where the polish government said one thing. they put out this proposal that the u.s. could basically help them transfer the soviet era fighter jets to ukraine. the u.s. said "we are rejecting this proposal, this is untenable." the reason it was such a striking moment was because on the whole, we haven't seen these kinds of disagreements. we haven't seen the u.s. and its allies not be on the same page. i think that is one area where there is not a lot of good news in any of this, but you talk to officials, one thing they will

repeatedly sound a little more optimistic about is the fact they feel the u.s. and allies have been on the same page. that is why that moment of disagreement, breakdown, and communication is what jen saki said to me was notable. >> you think about the moment of disagreement, you talked a little bit about the age to ukraine. how did that enter into this, the idea of what congress has done, and more about the impact of the aid as we see the breakdowns in communications. >> it is a precarious situation. a lot for president biden and members of congress to balance. starting with americans being war weary. the last two wars the u.s. was engaged in ended up extremely unpopular. the administration and lawmakers are facing pressure not to get bogged down into something on the long term.

as much as americans are sympathetic, not just the western world, even china felt the need to abstain from that security council resolute -- resolution. there was president biden and congress facing the vast majority of americans will experience the war through the prism of gas prices at the pump. that is the harsh reality. that is why president biden's trying to set expectations, before -- forthright that gas prices will go up. >> it is a good transition to what i was going to ask. there is bipartisan support for the sanctions against russia. republicans argue policies enacted i president biden also caused a rising gas prices. >> i expect our democratic friends will blame the entire increase in prices on our efforts to punish russia. but don't be fooled. this is more than a year in the making. >> of course, not a surprise

see mitch mcconnell being critical of the president. how are republicans and democrats gearing up to make this a wedge issue ahead of the midterms? >> it is a back-and-forth we will see constantly between now and the midterm. inflation was a problem even before putin invaded ukraine. democrats are sensitive to the fact rising prices are something voters cited as a top concern, if not, the top concern. we see the battle lines drawn. republicans arguing it is to be blamed on president biden and his administration's policies. they say he's not doing enough to produce domestic energy, code for producing more fossil fuels, more oil here. the president's counterargument is there are thousands of permits being unused for drilling here, and the pause is much more complicated. >> i was watching you as he was

describing the presidents come back. >> one telling moment from this week was when the president sort of laid out all of the things he hoped to do to try and keep gas prices under control. he made this promise to do everything in his power to make sure it is as contained as possible. a couple hours later, he goes on a trip to texas, and says actually, it can't do much right now. i think that is the more honest answer that captures the mood at the white house and this administration when it comes to this issue. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to let you know gas prices -- it is a very difficult problem to solve. it is not something where you can roll out a couple of policy agenda items and have gas prices drop. even the things the administration is working on right now, boosting global energy supply, having conversations with countries like venezuela, the uae, they

are longer-term things. the president knows that. >> i want to in some ways make a heart-shaped -- you are an expert of not just russia, but china. i had to ask you this question. china is factoring in. russia thinking maybe they can help out because of the sanctions. what are your experience from sources of how china falls into this? >> one of the main points we have to remember is if russia is going to do ion -- rely on china for buying gas, natural gas, oil, and technological things like chips and aspects from the west that are no longer going to be sold to russia is china is not there yet. it would take about a decade for china to build the kind of pipelines russia has invested into europe.

while china has advanced in the last few years since the trump administration targeted hauwei and technology so much, chinese advances have come in the last couple of years. they are not where the u.s. is, where the west is. russia simply cannot rely on china for purchasing enough oil and natural gas for the technology it is going to lose, or is losing from the west. we don't really know how far china will go or won't go. there are signs on either side when it comes to russia. the bottom line is russia cannot rely on china for everything. >> in the last 30 seconds, i want to come back to you. talk more about the fearlessness and how ukrainians feel about the war going on for months and years. about 30 seconds. i want you to lean in on that. >> i don't think they are fully

acknowledging this war can go on for months and years, because they are surviving every day. that ultimately is what this is about. it is born out of necessity, an existential threat. they are fighting for the very existence of their government and their country since 1991 being an independent state. that is motivating them and creating that fearlessness. >> it is something i think also has captured the attention of the world. i was struck by the fact you did a story where children's letters were sent to volunteers fighting on the front lines. it was a moving thing to watch. hopefully folks can watch it on pbs news or look it up. thank you so much to nick in the field and our guests joining us. we will continue our conversation on the washingtonweek extra. we will talk about president biden's domestic challenges. he has a lot. find it on our facebook, website, and youtube. today in monday for more on the ground in ukraine.

thank you for joining us. i'm yamiche alcindor. good night from washington. >> corporate funding for washingtonweek is provided by -- >> consumer cellular has been offering no contract wireless plans designed to help people do more of what they like. our u.s.-based customer service team can find the plan that fits you. to learn more, visit consumer cellular.tv. >> additional funding provided by the estate of arnold adams. cool and patricia euwan, committed to bridging cultural differences. sandra and carl. herschel and andy shreve's. robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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